Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 20th November 2010:
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05:31:52  <Brot6> Bundles Update: gd7d19225 2010-11-20 cargodist   (
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10:25:39  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 35:9580fb9de2ba: Feature: Second generation piece goods truck w... (Terkhen) @
10:34:58  <Terkhen> hmmm... now I wonder if a refrigerator truck wouldn't be almost identical to the piece goods truck, both in cargos and in sprites
10:35:52  <Terkhen> maybe I should use the goods sprites for all cargos in the piece goods truck and reserve the food sprites for the refrigerated truck
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10:39:48  <planetmaker> [11:34]	<Terkhen>	hmmm... now I wonder if a refrigerator truck wouldn't be almost identical to the piece goods truck, both in cargos and in sprites <-- the difference is the big AC for the cooling of the cargo
10:40:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 36:7e69c2077c8b: Feature: Third generation piece goods truck wi... (Terkhen) @
10:42:58  <Terkhen> hmm... true, the refrigerated truck just need new sprites
10:43:34  <Terkhen> as do all the not standard cargos that currently don't have graphics support
10:46:51  <Terkhen> hmm... the code of the livestock wagon seems to be missing from OpenGFX+ Trains
10:47:59  <planetmaker> indeed
10:48:07  <planetmaker> but not quite anymore
10:48:31  <planetmaker> :-)
10:48:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 96:c10cde2e8618: Fix: Add files which are referenced (planetmaker) @
10:49:06  <Terkhen> great, thanks :)
10:54:30  <Terkhen> hmmm... why do you need to specify the non_refittable_cargo_classes in a vehicle that is only intended for carrying a single type of cargo? to make it dissapear if the livestock cargo is not available?
10:54:56  <planetmaker> I guess I don't need to do that
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10:58:10  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1843: ML4000 (Voyager1) @
10:58:35  <planetmaker> Mostly leaving that there was an act of lazyness, I fear to admit
10:58:50  <planetmaker> And I left those types which livestock surely never fits.
11:03:37  <planetmaker> Terkhen: something I've been pondering for OpenGFX: should I completely re-define the vehicles, e.g. just make new ones with the same stats as the default or keep the IDs and re-define those, only modifying what is needed?
11:03:57  <planetmaker> I ponder it mostly because of the vehicle sorting...
11:07:00  <Terkhen> hmm... I remember some talks about the sort vehicle property, couldn't that property be used instead of redefining all vehicles?
11:07:33  <Terkhen> I still have not thought much about sorting
11:13:14  <planetmaker> well, the point is: if I define everything myself, I don't need to bother with that. The order is given by the order I define things
11:14:31  <Terkhen> it is probably the simpler solution, but it is also more tedious
11:14:50  <planetmaker> For the engines, certainly, yes
11:15:24  <planetmaker> on the other hand not so much, if we anyway define livery overrides and so for (nearly) every vehicle
11:15:54  <Terkhen> right now, for the buses and mail trucks, I'm only redefining the refit properties, but they should appear at the top anyways because they have the first IDs
11:16:53  <planetmaker> NML might need the sort property otherwise :-)
11:19:26  <Terkhen> I'm only missing livestock, refrigerated, tank, and valuables trucks now, and they are way simpler than the bulk and flatbed trucks
11:20:21  <planetmaker> Another thing I ponder is things like the flatbed wagon with paper: I need a generic fallback sprite or not allow it, I guess :-)
11:20:42  <Terkhen> yes, I guess I currently show it as wood too
11:21:03  <Terkhen> no, it has graphics
11:21:57  <Terkhen> there are many custom cargos I'm not showing correctly... I'll ask for graphics / engine names once that it has complete cargo support
11:22:44  <planetmaker> you only need a container ;-)
11:24:51  <Terkhen> IIRC it's only stuff like gravel, sand and so on... for the flatbed I could use something generic
11:26:00  <Terkhen> planetmaker: make: *** No rule to make target `src/gfx/wagons_bulk/Coal1a.png', needed by `ogfx-trains.grf'.  Stop.
11:26:14  <planetmaker> woot? Is that referenced, too?
11:26:37  <planetmaker> that should not (yet) be the case...
11:26:42  <Terkhen> it is strange; I don't even have a wagons_bulk folder
11:27:45  <planetmaker> oh bugger...
11:28:22  <planetmaker> I commited some play-around stuff not to be commited there
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11:28:45  <planetmaker> see lines 149ff of the wagon_bulk.pnml ;-)
11:32:22  <Terkhen> oh, you have even more sprites for coal?
11:32:29  <planetmaker> yes
11:32:50  <planetmaker> Zephyris painted 4 distinct ones, with each 2 very slightly different
11:33:02  <planetmaker> basically it's the default bulk wagons with coal, though
11:33:15  <planetmaker> there are many already, just for different bulk material
11:33:37  <Terkhen> I found random sprites a bit confusing while testing the partial refit patch
11:33:52  <planetmaker> he :-)
11:34:38  <Terkhen> I couldn't remember which ones were refitted or were already different from the beginning
11:35:10  <planetmaker> that's the problem with no difference between refitted empty vehicles...
11:36:03  <planetmaker> well. For now I'll revert the bulk wagon changes and keep the two random versions.
11:36:26  <planetmaker> I should only add more sprites when I have the vehicle order sorted. Or it'll get messy :-)
11:37:06  <planetmaker> and in the case of coal know how to use the many different looks of bulk wagons
11:38:22  <planetmaker> I still like the idea of some variation in the wagons. But maybe not that big as now
11:40:39  <planetmaker> pull again, Terkhen
11:40:47  <Terkhen> IMO it would be enough if adjacent wagons have more chances of being of the same type to make it appear less random
11:40:58  <Terkhen> but I don't know if that is possible
11:41:02  <planetmaker> that's not really feasable
11:41:21  <planetmaker> But I could choose for the entire train.
11:41:37  <Rubidium> if only I could acccess those movies of each passing train on the "Betuwelijn" (dedicated goods line)
11:41:41  <planetmaker> But that'd pose the difficulty that the wagon would change looks when attached to another engine
11:41:48  <Rubidium> then you could see what a mess those trains really are
11:41:55  <planetmaker> they are ;-)
11:42:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 97:720b79899c18: Fix (r91): Revert testing code for bulk wagon (planetmaker) @
11:43:32  <Terkhen> in my case I prefer some kind of order just for the sake of clarity... the cargo trains I have seen almost never had two identical wagons
11:43:42  <Terkhen> planetmaker: it compiles correctly now, thank you :)
11:43:50  <planetmaker> thank you for testing :-)
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12:00:10  <Terkhen> hmmm... I probably should not redefine the standard trucks/buses, since then I would have to define their names too and they are already translated in OpenTTD
12:02:51  * Terkhen wonders if it is possible to use OpenTTD strings in NML
12:04:52  <planetmaker> Terkhen: if you copy them, yes
12:04:58  <planetmaker> then even verbatim
12:05:14  <Terkhen> :D
12:05:23  <planetmaker> well. The syntax is the same
12:05:32  <planetmaker> That doesn't work for nfo
12:05:43  <planetmaker> E.g. Ammler did that for this Swiss town names
12:05:57  <Ammler> was a simple grep :-)
12:06:07  <planetmaker> I consider doing the same for the livestock wagon
12:06:42  <Ammler> well, for swiss town names, it was kinda needed, else you would have 2 entries in the town list menu
12:07:10  <Terkhen> <--- I meant using this
12:07:55  <Rubidium> Terkhen: what OpenTTD strings are you talking of?
12:08:22  <Rubidium> just check TTDPStringIDToOTTDStringIDMapping I'd say
12:10:21  <Terkhen> Rubidium: the names of the road vehicles
12:10:25  <Terkhen> okay, let's see
12:22:22  <DJNekkid> yey, the first bros-file :P
12:23:41  <DJNekkid> only action0 left :D
12:26:11  <Terkhen> heh... it seems that I would need patches for both NML and OpenTTD to support this
12:26:43  <Rubidium> though isn't the name a default, so just override the right vehicle and you get the name for free?
12:28:15  <Terkhen> I was thinking about redefining them to be able to sort them more easily, but it seems that just overriding them will be easier :)
12:45:21  <frosch123> Terkhen: are vehicle names obligatory in nml?
12:45:34  <Terkhen> no
12:45:41  <frosch123> if there is no action4 they will default to the original names
12:46:00  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i misread your discussion :)
12:47:04  <Terkhen> my problem is that I don't want the livestock trucks to appear first, but I can live with it for now
12:49:57  <planetmaker> frosch123: question is: can I use the default vehicle names in my completely custom newgrf?
12:50:02  <planetmaker> I think not...
12:50:16  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1037:2655e79f2a0f: Doc: Explain grf parameters (planetmaker) @
12:50:22  <frosch123> old wagons new cargos does so
12:50:41  <planetmaker> don't they just re-define the existing wagons?
12:50:48  <planetmaker> Then I don't have to take any action
12:50:58  <Terkhen> after checking TTDPStringIDToOTTDStringIDMapping it seems that OpenTTD does not remap the vehicle name strings
12:51:08  <frosch123> well, you have to use the same local vehicle ids of course
12:51:17  <frosch123> but that is no restriction, is it?
12:51:31  <planetmaker> well. I don't want that :-) It's a restriction for sorting. Sort of
12:51:35  <Terkhen> also, I'm not sure if NML would accept custom string IDS as a parameter for "name"
12:54:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 37:21bf77ed2534: Add: Redeclare standard livestock vans to make... (Terkhen) @
13:09:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 38:6bef3bb487b5: Add: Redeclare standard armoured trucks to mak... (Terkhen) @
14:09:32  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1038:3ad97d373aff: Doc: Rewrite section on spritesets and spriteg... (planetmaker) @
14:18:55  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 39:d6dc36748c47: Feature: Refrigerated trucks with initial grap... (Terkhen) @
14:50:43  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 12:db5633fb996f: Add: Initial upload, does produce a .grf :D (DJNekkid) @
14:56:33  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 13:695163c152ba: Add: Makefile scripts (DJNekkid) @
14:58:47  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 14:1bfff5753fc0: Change: Removed some old bits that I dont ne... (DJNekkid) @
15:03:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 40:8aa3342523a6: Feature: First generation tank truck with init... (Terkhen) @
15:17:20  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 41:aa26620407c2: Feature: Second generation tank truck with ini... (Terkhen) @
15:24:01  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: bros makefile(s) keeps deleting the readme.txt
15:24:07  <DJNekkid> any idea why? :P
15:24:12  <DJNekkid> atleast if i do a "remake"
15:24:40  <planetmaker> probably in Makefile.config one of the last lines reads CLEAN_ADD=readme.txt
15:25:16  <DJNekkid> bingo :D
15:25:24  <planetmaker> just remove it from there so that it only reads CLEAN_ADD=
15:25:37  <DJNekkid> i just #'ed it..
15:25:45  <DJNekkid> should also work?
15:25:55  <planetmaker> test?
15:26:01  <DJNekkid> it works,
15:26:12  <DJNekkid> but it might break something on your side? :P
15:27:26  <planetmaker> no
15:27:35  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 42:c3b985e15717: Fix (r41): Correct power and weight values. (Terkhen) @
15:29:17  <DJNekkid> btw, can you add me as a developer in the bros repo/redmine?
15:29:27  <DJNekkid> assumeing you have admin status on redmine :)
15:30:00  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 15:a4b50a27f94c: Add: Action14 (basicly copy/paste/minor adju... (DJNekkid) @
15:33:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 43:48cbeb0ac682: Feature: Third generation tank truck with init... (Terkhen) @
15:33:54  <Terkhen> ^ that was the last one
15:34:38  <Terkhen> now I have to fix a few bugs and disable the rest of standard road vehicles to be able to call it "working"
15:36:01  <Terkhen> I'm not sure that adding a setting for enabling/disabling the other standard road vehicles makes much sense for road vehicles, though...
15:36:27  <planetmaker> why not?
15:38:03  <Terkhen> with trains, some people may prefer to use the old wagons with standard cargos, but with road vehicles you will essentialy get duplicate trucks for every cargo
15:43:39  <planetmaker> I added it mostly for the reason to be able to add it after the map was created and vehicles are already running
15:44:18  <Terkhen> hmm... okay, that makes sense :)
15:47:00  <planetmaker> (even though it's a bit shizophrene as I constantly advocate to NOT change newgrfs during the game) ;-)
15:47:23  <Terkhen> yes, it is not a setting that should see much use
15:48:00  <planetmaker> Maybe it can be disguised as debug setting :-)
15:52:03  <Terkhen> who would use it to debug? I'm not planning to enable that ever, except for testing that it works :P
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16:18:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 44:ed24142ccd9a: Add: Allow to refit the bulk truck to rubber. (Terkhen) @
16:18:57  <Terkhen> what do I have to do to enable nightly builds of OpenGFX+ road vehicles?
16:19:49  <frosch123> you need to add some files to .devzone
16:19:58  <frosch123> take a look at other projects :)
16:20:07  <frosch123> it's different for nfo and nml though
16:21:05  <Terkhen> thanks :)
16:22:35  <Terkhen> I guess that copying the .devzone folder of ogfx-trains should be enough
16:22:54  <planetmaker> it should
16:25:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 45:557ddcedf97e: Add: Enable compile farm for nightlies and rel... (Terkhen) @
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16:59:07  <Terkhen> This setting is included for debugging purposes. You can use this setting if you want to add this newgrf to a running game with existing default vehicles. This is known to cause problems; enable it at your own risk. <--- does it sound scary enough?
17:07:30  <planetmaker> sounds awesome :-)
17:07:42  <planetmaker> you could add the same description for OpenGFX+Trains :-)
17:07:58  <Terkhen> okay :)
17:11:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 46:cec19561a537: Add: Parameter to disable/enable the rest of s... (Terkhen) @
17:13:45  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r801 to r802 done -
17:15:34  <Terkhen> time for testing :)
17:16:12  <planetmaker> :-)
17:17:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 98:ec0ddcfb9d08: Change: Modify the description of the "Keep all exist... (Terkhen) @
17:17:36  <Brot6> nml: update from r1036 to r1038 done -
17:19:16  <planetmaker> thank you :-)
17:20:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #1877 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:21:06  <Terkhen> good start :D
17:21:22  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r90 to r98 done -
17:21:47  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r673), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), airportsplus (r69), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1524), fish (r423), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r802), heqs (r508), indonesiantowns (r38), manindu (r5), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r236), nml (r1038), nutracks (r117), ogfx-trees (r41), opengfx (r557), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts
17:21:47  <Brot6> (r19), snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r188), swisstowns (r21), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r669)
17:25:34  <Terkhen> a commit hook that checks for files with ? status would be useful
17:28:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #1877 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:28:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 47:d1f8ce5abd2c: Fix #1877: Add missing file. (Terkhen) @
17:28:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #1877 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Terkhen) @
17:37:39  <Brot6> indonesiantowns: compile of r38 still failed (#1873) -
17:41:27  <Brot6> ogfx-rv: update from  to r47 done (1 errors) -
17:55:19  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (8 errors), 32bpp-extra (Diffsize: 1), airportsplus (Diffsize: 6), basecosts, belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), comic-houses (2 errors) (Diffsize: 14), firs (3 errors), fish (4 errors), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), heqs, manindu, metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), nutracks (2 errors), ogfx-trees, opengfx, smts, snowlinemod,
17:55:19  <Brot6> swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 12), ttrs (7 errors), worldairlinersset
19:03:53  <planetmaker> Terkhen: "# Truck models that have that are able to handle the new cargos from industry NewGRFs such as ECS, PBI or FIRS."
19:04:04  <Terkhen> oops
19:04:24  <Terkhen> corrected, thank you :)
19:04:51  <planetmaker> no worries :-)
19:16:19  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21258 to r21277 done (2 errors) -
19:28:26  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21258 to r21277 done -
19:30:52  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21277 still failed (#1855) -
19:43:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1878 (New): Wrong string for Sugar Refinery (andythenorth) @
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23:01:05  <Brot6> Unable to connect to execution expired
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