Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 21st November 2010:
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02:22:54  -agnez- hacker!
02:22:54  <agnez> hacker!
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02:23:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1867 (Rejected): Add pax, mail, valuables and livestock wagons without ID (planetmaker) @
04:15:03  <Brot6> Unable to connect to execution expired
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06:00:19  <Terkhen> hmm... it seems that OFTC has a bot problem today
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06:26:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #1879 (New): Missing names for many truck models. (Terkhen) @
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06:43:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #1880 (New): Graphical support for new cargos (Terkhen) @
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06:51:02  -Anjie^34- look
06:51:02  <Anjie^34> wanna make a botnet download
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06:51:04  <Webster> Title: Upload Mirrors -Easy file upload to multiple free file hosts - Download - psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar (at
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07:00:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 48:cf98db70efcf: Fix: Use the existing Grain sprite for the Cer... (Terkhen) @
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07:45:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881 (New): Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
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08:08:02  <Brot6> Unable to connect to execution expired
08:54:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 99:0f55e285bf80: Add #1633: Define all engines (planetmaker) @
08:54:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 100:4aa0c966a243: Fix #1844: Sprites for paper cargo for flatbed wagon (planetmaker) @
08:54:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 101:1b7263c2bab3: Cleanup: Use the same order for both cargos in both,... (planetmaker) @
08:54:21  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1844 (Closed): flatbed wagon: paper shown as wood logs (planetmaker) @
08:57:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1874 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @
08:59:42  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1633 (Closed): Add action0 for every default vehicle (planetmaker) @
09:07:46  <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
09:08:00  <Terkhen> the Cereals bug I solved earlier is also present in ogfx trains
09:08:03  <planetmaker> hello Terkhen
09:09:01  <planetmaker> ah, yes.
09:09:20  <planetmaker> I think it's now about time to check for graphics thoroughly :-)
09:11:18  <Terkhen> I'm on it now... there are a few inconsistences in ogfx road, but the most important thing is that it does not support plastic in PBI
09:11:21  <planetmaker> but I think I missed the existance of cereals so far entirely
09:12:25  <Terkhen> me too... I understand the reason to call it cereals, but it could have reused the label of one of the already existing cargos that are almost the same thing
09:13:45  <Terkhen> hmm... Dyes from ECS are missing too
09:13:50  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 102:9b453ed02848: Add: Use grain graphics for cereals (planetmaker) @
09:14:08  <planetmaker> he :-)
09:14:24  <planetmaker> I guess even though I tested ECS, I didn't find all cargos ;-)
09:15:39  <planetmaker> good point, though
09:18:02  <planetmaker> how do dyes look like?
09:18:09  <Terkhen> I have no idea
09:18:37  <Terkhen> since they are a liquid cargo, I guess that I'll use the tanker sprite
09:21:01  <Terkhen> hmmm... strange, plastic does not appear in ECS beta 6 but it is listed at the cargo types list
09:21:47  <Terkhen> anyways, both plastic and dyes have the same cargo classes (liquid | piece goods), that's probably why they are missing
09:24:30  <planetmaker> ah, hm. Then it's not a problem to use default sprites and do nothing :-)
09:25:21  <Terkhen> yes, that would be best :)
09:27:11  <planetmaker> That should even be done now given the cargo classes :-)
09:27:50  <planetmaker> default piece good: box car. No graphics support needed. Default liquid: water tanker. Also no change really needed :-) And that should work the same for RVs
09:28:26  <planetmaker> It might need some generic container support for the flatbed...
09:34:24  <Terkhen> so, it should work just by removing CC_LIQUID from the non_refittable_cargo_classes of the piece goods and CC_PIECE_GOODS from the tanker?
09:35:04  <planetmaker> If it doesn't work now, then yes, probably
09:35:29  <planetmaker> alternatively add it explicity to the cargo list
09:36:42  <planetmaker> but support via cargo class might be better
09:38:22  <Terkhen> okay, I'll try this later :)
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09:40:56  <planetmaker> hm... flatbed doesn't support goods :-(
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09:45:27  <Terkhen> it does, but only in FIRS
09:46:26  <Terkhen> I don't mind if the flatbed carries goods/supplies or not, but it should be consistent across all sets (including default industries of course)
09:46:44  <Terkhen> I don't know what andy decided about this issue
09:47:24  <planetmaker> here actually with default arctic industries
09:47:35  <planetmaker> and now I have a frigging invisible flatbed wagon :-(
09:47:51  <planetmaker> I added express to the cargo classes and removed most incompatible ones
09:48:55  <planetmaker> hm...
09:49:56  <planetmaker> wrong graphics file referenced :-)
09:50:13  <planetmaker> Still it doens't explain why it got invisible without issuing any kind of error :-(
09:51:09  <planetmaker> I fear it might be NML's handling of sprite references out-of bounds
09:52:21  <planetmaker> [10:46]	<Terkhen>	I don't know what andy decided about this issue <-- containers should always work, and flatbed is the natural container carrier
09:54:14  <Terkhen> we should add explicit support for goods/supplies to the flatbed then :)
09:54:38  <planetmaker> why?
09:54:56  <Terkhen> because right now it only works for FIRS
09:54:57  <planetmaker> I think changing containers to be the default cargo is best.
09:55:34  <Terkhen> hmm... I meant refit support, I agree about the containers being the default sprite
09:55:37  <planetmaker> andy might change goods' cargo class in 0.6
09:55:49  <planetmaker> to the same as default cargos. Where it is cc_express
09:55:55  <planetmaker> now it's cc_piece in FIRS
09:56:41  <Terkhen> hmm... we can wait until 0.6 is released and then change the masks of the flatbed accordingly
09:57:28  <planetmaker> yep
09:58:10  <planetmaker> though supporting both cc_piece and cc_express with the flatbed should do the trick already now
09:58:22  <planetmaker> and it might be a good idea to remove most incompatible ones.
10:02:29  <Terkhen> it seems to me that the only additional cargo would be sweets in toyland in that case
10:03:04  <planetmaker> that's ok, to transport them in containers :-)
10:03:58  <Terkhen> they won't look much toyland-ish, but I don't think we will get many complaints :P
10:05:22  <planetmaker> well. One can still add dedicated cargo support :-)
10:05:33  <planetmaker> Like a big candy :-)
10:05:44  <planetmaker> hm... I like that idea :-)
10:08:39  <Terkhen> :)
10:08:40  <planetmaker> And I still love the look of my test game here. Arctic, OpenGFX+ Trains/RV/Trees and Swedish Rails - just lovely :-)
10:09:30  <Terkhen> I'm currently testing RV under different industry sets, after that I'll have a longer test game
10:09:35  <Terkhen> bbl
10:09:40  <planetmaker> enjoy :-)
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11:50:09  <Hirundo> Feature Request for OpenGFX+ RVs: Please don't have as many vehicles as eGRVTS
11:51:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 49:73fe2120c4cc: Doc: Update the readme. (Terkhen) @
11:51:56  <Terkhen> Hirundo: currently it has even less vehicles than the standard set
11:52:39  <Terkhen> and I don't plan to add much more vehicles
11:53:13  <Hirundo> What's the intro date of the first vehicles?
11:53:29  <Terkhen> between 1925-1930
11:55:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 103:dcd955556788: Feature: Flatbed wagon didn't support goods, use con... (planetmaker) @
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12:06:41  * Terkhen ponders reducing the costs of the road vehicles a bit
12:07:24  <planetmaker> why that?
12:08:28  <Terkhen> they are very expensive IMO... but I don't want to make them a suitable alternative for trains either; trains should make more money
12:08:47  <planetmaker> I played yesterday a bit on our stable server, it used egrvts. And the late 50t trucks easily made even for short routes like 10k / year income
12:08:50  <planetmaker> with FIRS
12:09:59  <planetmaker> Well... I didn't think much of a cost balancing so far as money never is an issue, whater means of transport you chose.
12:13:36  <Terkhen> that's because egrvts already has reduced costs; for example, the best bus in egrvts costs €7,640 - €1,276/yr while the best standard one costs €13,166 - €2,254/yr
12:14:23  <Terkhen> I don't mind the buying costs, but the running costs are prohibitively high in comparison
12:14:48  <Terkhen> but I wouldn't reduce them to egrvts levels either
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12:33:22  <planetmaker> well. I don't really mind too much. I just wonder where the limits to 'original' and 'unique' is... but I really mean it that I wonder. I'm not sure. Game balance is part of OpenGFX+ series. Not drastic but slightly :-)
12:36:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 50:05f57219d772: Add: Capacities of toyland cargos for the piec... (Terkhen) @
12:37:01  <Terkhen> it is not a pressing issue anyways, it can wait until the set is more mature :)
12:43:02  <Terkhen> planetmaker: right now you can carry tourists on flatbed wagons
12:43:30  <planetmaker> only when they book at 'adventure tours' ;-)
12:44:33  <Terkhen> travelling inside a container would too much of an adventure for me :P
12:46:02  <planetmaker> :-P
12:48:07  <Terkhen> hmm... it also adds fertilizer and fibre crops
12:48:15  * Terkhen has no idea of what fibre crops are
12:48:40  <Rubidium> hemp?
12:48:55  <Rubidium> cotton?
12:49:12  <planetmaker> like that^
12:49:18  <Rubidium> flax?
12:49:25  <planetmaker> I just wonder about fibre crops for the flatbed wagon, though
12:49:39  <Terkhen> both animal farms and textile mills accept them, so probably all of those
12:50:17  <Terkhen> I think they fit better in the bulk wagon, which already carries them
12:50:54  <planetmaker> fertilizer might be ok, though. If backed in either containers or bags
12:51:01  <planetmaker> but fibre crops... rather not
12:53:36  <Terkhen> I agree, and the same goes for plant fibres in FIRS
12:53:45  <planetmaker> yes, but that's the same cargo
12:54:38  <Terkhen> okay :)
13:06:21  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 51:898c7c3d3dc9: Codechange: Move the cargo translation table t... (Terkhen) @
13:18:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 104:5d1d75f4da0b: Fix: Flatbed wagon cargo didn't carry lumber anymore... (planetmaker) @
13:43:04  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 52:dd34938cc17a: Feature: Allow the flatbed trucks to carry goo... (Terkhen) @
14:30:24  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 674:a3102d667f60: Fix: DB 608 misalignment, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:01:20  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 105:2827f8a7cd2f: Change: Re-use the existing name for the livestovest... (planetmaker) @
15:04:37  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 675:7de7520aa18e: Fix: Cityrail V misalignment, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:18:16  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 53:d9be9df8d9a0: Add: Tank truck now supports Dyes and Plastic. (Terkhen) @
15:18:47  <Terkhen> I don't see any further omissions with PBI or ECS
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15:39:51  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 676:6d155cd199bb: Fix: EF500 gap, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:39:51  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 677:436a101216b9: Fix: T1000 misaligment, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:39:51  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 678:6eb740a24982: Fix: mx3000 misaligment, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:39:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 679:1b249fa6717c: Fix: 81-740 misaligment, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:39:56  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 680:6910a5080bfc: Fix: ML4000 gfx update, part of #1870 (DJNekkid) @
15:41:35  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1870: r673 (DJNekkid) @
15:52:10  <andythenorth> afternooning
15:53:12  <Terkhen> morninoon andythenorth
15:53:39  * andythenorth has to face up to a big FIRS bug
15:53:54  <andythenorth> anybody want to learn about FIRS production while I debug this?
15:54:02  <andythenorth> currently there is a significant 'hit by a bus' factor
15:54:11  <andythenorth> I am the only person on the planet who understands it
15:56:08  * andythenorth faces FIRS production code alone :P
15:56:18  <Terkhen> I'm afraid that the offer is not very tempting :)
15:58:16  <andythenorth> brr
16:09:21  * andythenorth can't think of an elegant solution
16:11:12  * andythenorth finds a reasonably elegant solution
16:11:15  <andythenorth> hope it works
16:12:21  <andythenorth> seems to work
16:13:29  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1805: MLX01 (Maglev) (Voyager1) @
16:13:29  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1805: MLX01 (Maglev) (Voyager1) @
16:16:30  <Terkhen> :)
16:20:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1525:48d1f38cb126: Fix: mistake where secondary industri... (andythenorth) @
16:23:13  <planetmaker> :-) Hello andythenorth
16:23:20  <planetmaker> Interesting read the backlog ;-)
16:24:55  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1870: r673 (Voyager1) @
16:25:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: backlog mostly 'snow' and 'animation' :P
16:25:59  <planetmaker> :-) I meant here on IRC your musings about FIRS production ;-)
16:26:23  <andythenorth> he
16:26:43  <andythenorth> wonder if anyone else would understand the code
16:26:45  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1868 (Closed): Secondary Industries with two output cargos p... (andythenorth) @
16:42:46  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881: Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
16:44:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881: Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
16:44:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 106:a3084015b297: Change: Update design document (planetmaker) @
16:48:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881: Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
16:50:30  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 681:1e3ac23de0c7: Change: New MLX01-901 gfx (DJNekkid) @
17:02:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881: Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
17:05:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1526:4b7ea7ed633e: Fix: mistake with production ratio re... (andythenorth) @
17:10:34  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1881 (Closed): Production templates have problems (andythenorth) @
17:22:38  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r673 to r681 done (8 errors) -
17:24:09  <Brot6> firs: update from r1524 to r1526 done (3 errors) -
17:25:47  <Brot6> ogfx-rv: update from r47 to r53 done (1 errors) -
17:26:20  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r98 to r106 done -
17:26:39  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), airportsplus (r69), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r423), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r802), heqs (r508), indonesiantowns (r38), manindu (r5), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r236), nml (r1038), nutracks (r117), ogfx-trees (r41), opengfx (r557), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45),
17:26:39  <Brot6> swedishrails (r188), swisstowns (r21), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r669)
17:27:35  <Brot6> indonesiantowns: compile of r38 still failed (#1873) -
17:30:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1882 (New): Change to classes for WOOL (andythenorth) @
17:51:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #765 (Resolved): Maths appears to be wrong for secondary proc... (andythenorth) @
17:51:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #765 (Closed): Maths appears to be wrong for secondary proces... (andythenorth) @
17:54:35  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1603 (Rejected): Randomize production rations for some m... (andythenorth) @
17:58:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #696 (Rejected): Multiple 'Economy' types (andythenorth) @
17:59:45  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #530 (Rejected): Snowy versions of the industries (andythenorth) @
18:06:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #613 (Rejected): Logic may be flawed in secondary industry pr... (andythenorth) @
18:15:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 107:a234258b8c8b: Add: Template to switch sprites depending upon age o... (planetmaker) @
18:20:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 108:7e3fb38fbfd4: Codechange: Move translation tables to their own file (planetmaker) @
18:34:39  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1883 (New): Tram showing wrong trailing vehicles (andythenorth) @
18:37:34  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1883: Tram showing wrong trailing vehicles (andythenorth) @
18:44:52  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1883 (Closed): Tram showing wrong trailing vehicles (andythenorth) @
18:44:52  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 510:4b879d3c543c: Fix: grain sprites were broken for all ... (andythenorth) @
18:44:52  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1883 (Closed): Tram showing wrong trailing vehicles (andythenorth) @
18:45:29  <andythenorth> Ammler: is there a nice way to force a HEQS nightly to get
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18:49:37  <planetmaker> not really a nice way
18:58:00  <Ammler> enable building on push
18:59:53  <andythenorth> I can release instead
19:00:17  <Ammler> yes, use release "test" for example :-)
19:00:58  <Ammler> we could configure it that, "test" doesn't write finger or change LATEST
19:01:06  <Ammler> -,
19:02:41  * planetmaker is still very unhappy about having to change the repo just to get a build
19:02:50  <planetmaker> that's conceptionally quite wrong
19:03:07  <andythenorth> I don't want to release a broken grf
19:03:16  <andythenorth> but you guys don't want me releasing grfs in tt-forums any more
19:03:21  <andythenorth> so I'm a bit stumped
19:03:33  <andythenorth> and I have released two broken grfs recently :(
19:03:48  <planetmaker> It takes about 22h till it's build at latest
19:03:59  <andythenorth> I know, but I'm impatient :P
19:04:15  <andythenorth> and it means I have to remember go post in the thread 22h after I fix a bug report
19:04:28  <andythenorth> remembering is boring
19:04:41  <planetmaker> why does it mean that? Tell people that they get it there in 20 hours :-)
19:04:52  <andythenorth> then they have to remember :P
19:05:01  <andythenorth> what harm does posting grfs in the thread do?
19:05:18  <planetmaker> you get old versions tested
19:05:32  <planetmaker> and bug reports about long-fixed things more often
19:05:40  <planetmaker> As people will find it there, use it and complain
19:05:52  <andythenorth> but all I'm doing instead is linking a specific rev on the bundles server
19:06:00  <andythenorth> I miss what's better about that?
19:06:01  <planetmaker> you link to LATEST
19:06:04  <planetmaker> which is quite unspecific
19:06:12  <Ammler> ok, tag "test" doesn't finger anymore
19:06:23  <andythenorth> but LATEST changes, so is not useful for testing a specific rev
19:06:25  <andythenorth> perhaps not
19:06:35  <Ammler> no, finger does set LATEST
19:06:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you would always want LATEST tested, not?
19:06:47  <Ammler> afaik
19:06:50  <Ammler> hmm
19:07:03  <andythenorth> can't think of a reason not to test LATEST
19:07:03  <planetmaker> Ammler: I mean the link... Not finger
19:07:09  <planetmaker> see :-)
19:07:15  * planetmaker neither
19:07:16  <Ammler> yes
19:07:36  <Ammler> LATEST doesn't update, if finger doesn't update
19:07:45  <andythenorth> hmm
19:07:55  <andythenorth> it seems arbitrary to slow everything down by 22hrs
19:08:10  <andythenorth> if the bug isn't means possibly days of delays
19:08:50  <andythenorth> meanwhile more people download broken grfs on bananas and my grfs get a bad rep as broken
19:09:01  <andythenorth> there's no way I can see to pull a grf from bananas
19:09:23  * andythenorth is puzzled by best route
19:09:31  <planetmaker> you can set the required version too something that doesn't allow download
19:09:49  <planetmaker> min version = 1.1 or so ;-)
19:09:54  <planetmaker> or max_version = 0.6
19:10:02  <planetmaker> might be better
19:10:10  <andythenorth> not a bad solution
19:10:20  <andythenorth> still...what I want is to release a fixed version ASAP
19:10:35  <planetmaker> well. Does it work for you?
19:10:42  <planetmaker> Then tag it. Release it
19:10:51  <andythenorth> works for me
19:11:03  <andythenorth> but then if I'm wrong....more broken grfs, more bad rep
19:11:22  * andythenorth is sore about releasing broken grfs three times in a row
19:11:44  <planetmaker> what was so broken about FIRS what is serious?
19:11:52  <planetmaker> the minimum production is not serious
19:11:56  <andythenorth> production code didn't work
19:11:59  <andythenorth> I broke most of the industries
19:12:27  <andythenorth> I like 'release early release often', but it has downsides
19:12:28  <planetmaker> Then call it 0.5.5-RC1. and make it available only for nightlies
19:12:37  <Ammler> what is bad about using test, again?
19:12:45  <andythenorth> Ammler: nothing I know of
19:12:55  <Ammler> so why not try it?
19:13:00  <andythenorth> so I jsut tag and release test
19:13:04  <planetmaker> But then, if you think it's fixed, just call it 0.5.5. It's a grf and it stays compatible.
19:13:05  <andythenorth> ?
19:13:11  <planetmaker> I don't see the big issue, andythenorth :-)
19:13:24  <andythenorth> I think you're probably quite forgiving of broken
19:13:25  <planetmaker> You see it probably in a much worse light than it needs to be seen :-)
19:13:38  <planetmaker> If I were you I'd be mad at myself probably, too, though
19:13:49  <Ammler> you can also release a :-)
19:13:55  <andythenorth> I suspect the average bananas user just dismisses a broken grf
19:14:04  <andythenorth> haha
19:14:05  <Ammler> or 0.5.5a
19:14:26  <Ammler> the versioning works endless in that way
19:14:33  <andythenorth> I have no problem with RC
19:14:40  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21277 to r21293 done (2 errors) -
19:14:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but it's not really broken. It just works slightly different than _you_ intended
19:14:43  <andythenorth> I think in this case I fixed it
19:14:51  <andythenorth> so HEQS I'll just release
19:15:14  <andythenorth> FIRS I'll do an RC
19:15:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:15:41  <andythenorth> how do I remove a tag?
19:15:45  * andythenorth google
19:15:52  <planetmaker> an existing?
19:15:58  <planetmaker> locally? or pushed?
19:16:01  <andythenorth> hg tag --remove 0.9.3
19:16:05  <andythenorth> locally
19:16:13  <planetmaker> hg rollback && hrevert .hgtags
19:16:21  <planetmaker> hg revert .hgtags
19:20:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 511:88e2c2943c67: Added tag 0.9.3 for changeset 4b879d3c543c (andythenorth) @
19:20:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 512:afd811c5deed: Removed tag 0.9.3 (andythenorth) @
19:20:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 513:4ac00f0bfc1a: Change: update readme (andythenorth) @
19:20:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 514:c67d365f3218: Added tag 0.9.3 for changeset 4ac00f0bfc1a (andythenorth) @
19:21:52  <Ammler> lol
19:21:58  <Ammler> why do you push such thing
19:22:06  <Ammler> just use strip next time :-)
19:22:32  <andythenorth> I followed google instructions, not planetmaker instructions :(
19:22:49  <planetmaker> :-(
19:23:02  <Ammler> as long as you don't push, you are safe with using strip
19:23:14  <Ammler> so that would in that case be the best
19:23:30  <Ammler> nothing you need in the history
19:23:37  <planetmaker> Ammler: if it's the last commit hg rollback is better
19:23:38  <Brot6> heqs: update from 0.9.2 to 0.9.3 done -
19:24:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: well, indeed
19:24:18  <Ammler> but that works for one commit only
19:25:05  <Ammler> andythenorth: also simply editing .hgtags would have been better
19:25:13  <Ammler> easier* :-)
19:25:17  <Ammler> cleaner*
19:25:40  <Ammler> hg tag --remove is something you need to delete pushed tags
19:25:56  <planetmaker> *sigh*
19:26:11  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21277 to r21293 done -
19:26:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: there are many options. But it's confusing, if one doesn't know one. So keeping it to one is simplest :-)
19:27:05  <planetmaker> And there I'd like to keep it for hg rollback && hg revert .hgtags :-)
19:27:10  <planetmaker> As it works most often
19:27:47  <Ammler> well, it doesn't matter "how", it is just important to know, there are easier ways, I don't care at all, but why not tell :-)
19:28:19  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21293 still failed (#1855) -
19:29:29  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1527:74f15b3c24ea: Change: update changelog (andythenorth) @
19:30:20  <Ammler> andythenorth: the "problem" with RC release is that you need to make a release also if the RC is fine
19:30:37  <Ammler> so I would rather not make a RC and simply if that was faulty release a bugvix
19:30:41  <Ammler> fix*
19:30:50  <andythenorth> Ammler: oh dear :|
19:31:01  <Ammler> that is personally :-)
19:31:16  <andythenorth> too late
19:31:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1528:52ff099d2543: Added tag 0.5.5-RC1 for changeset 74f... (andythenorth) @
19:31:56  <Ammler> every release of FIRS is beta unitl you 1.0
19:32:01  <Ammler> so every release is also RC
19:32:06  <andythenorth> indeed
19:32:15  <Ammler> so you call a beta RC?
19:32:19  <Ammler> :-P
19:32:28  <andythenorth> in this case it's all spurious anyway. because I committed about 30 mins before cf ran
19:32:37  <andythenorth> so kogut has already tested and confirmed my fixes :P
19:32:48  <andythenorth> I just want to find best way to do this generally
19:32:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1884 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
19:33:02  <andythenorth> heh
19:33:14  <andythenorth> see, RC was useful
19:33:16  <andythenorth> :P
19:33:32  <Ammler> not sure
19:33:37  <andythenorth> Ammler:
19:33:40  <andythenorth> 404
19:33:50  <Ammler> [20:33] <Ammler> not sure :-)
19:35:21  <Ammler> retriggered
19:35:26  <Ammler> don't see why it failed
19:35:41  <andythenorth> ho hum
19:37:21  <Brot6> firs: update from 0.5.4 to 0.5.5-RC1 done (3 errors) -
19:38:13  <Ammler> hmm
19:41:07  <Ammler> andythenorth: the problem with "-RC1" is that "-" is not a allowed version char
19:41:13  <Ammler> so it needs ugly hacks
19:42:04  <andythenorth> hokey dokey
19:42:05  <Ammler> 0.5.5-RC1 > 0.5.5
19:42:56  <andythenorth> so RC is bad?
19:43:53  <Rubidium> RCs are fine!
19:45:08  <Rubidium> just that some packagers can't be arsed to replace a - with some other character, or when the packaging system doesn't have some character that sorts below 0.5.5 shouldn't be a reason not to make release candidates
19:45:18  <Ammler> RC might be fine for openttd, but IMO not worth for addons
19:46:32  <andythenorth> well...I release grfs in the thread then :P
19:46:40  <Rubidium> addons contains loads of complex programming that needs some field testing, but ofcourse feel free to run through releases
19:46:43  <Ammler> Rubidium: it doesn't matter for packagers, as you simply shouldn't package RCs
19:47:02  <Ammler> andythenorth: so you stop tagging?
19:47:24  <Rubidium> might be that you end up with people not running the latest version because updating "stable" releases became a drag
19:47:24  <Ammler> that is not the first time you made a release, btw. :-)
19:47:26  <andythenorth> I don't tag until it's tested in that case
19:47:49  <Ammler> your tt-forums zips weren't tagged releases?
19:48:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1884 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
19:48:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1884 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (andythenorth) @
19:48:15  <andythenorth> many were, many weren't...
19:48:17  <Ammler> I always thought those were the same as you uplaod to banans, sorry then
19:48:54  <andythenorth> in the first post of each thread, same as bananas
19:48:54  <andythenorth> intermediate versions for people to use for testing...often just tip
19:48:55  <Ammler> it is just useless to upload something to tt-forums, where you need to keep another source up to date
19:49:18  <Ammler> as you get bananas, and for free
19:49:22  * andythenorth feels like something is missing
19:49:25  <Ammler> (almost)
19:49:37  <andythenorth> all I want is second eyes on a bug to confirm it's gone
19:49:40  <andythenorth> or similar
19:49:44  <andythenorth> so I release a grf
19:49:52  <Ammler> and nightly isn't good for that?
19:49:59  <andythenorth> ach, I'll just start pm-ing them to people, that's how I used to do it when I very first started
19:50:11  <andythenorth> then everyone's happy :P
19:50:14  <Ammler> yes, just remove .devzone
19:50:42  <Ammler> you ignore the errors anyway
19:52:02  <andythenorth> this wouldn't be an issue if everyone had their own checkout
19:52:11  <andythenorth> then they could just pull tip and compile
19:53:41  <Ammler> the nightly build is for checking, if your commit works on other pcs
19:54:19  <Ammler> specially the missing "hg add" was solved some times that way
19:57:09  <Ammler> andythenorth: important now is that you don't add anything to FIRS until you release 0.5.5
19:57:27  <andythenorth> interesting
19:57:40  <Ammler> else the whole RC was useless :-)
19:57:41  <andythenorth> add != further bug fixes
19:58:01  <Ammler> yep
19:58:20  <Ammler> well, basically also only fixes related to this release
19:58:43  <Ammler> else you need to make a RC2 :-)
19:59:41  <planetmaker> [20:49]	* andythenorth	feels like something is missing <-- Honestly, andythenorth. I think you're just impatient
20:00:22  <planetmaker> And frustrated. I understand that well. But now throwing everything working over just because of "I want it tested now" will not help at all
20:00:37  <planetmaker> People don't instantaneously report back. Nowhere.
20:00:55  <planetmaker> Unless those are which actually work on the repo, too
20:00:58  <planetmaker> Usually
20:01:08  <Ammler> people could also simply wait a day for the bugfix release :-)
20:01:20  <planetmaker> That's what I'm trying to tell. Yes
20:02:15  <andythenorth> planetmaker: go look in the FIRS release thread :P
20:02:28  <andythenorth> Kogut is....quick ;)
20:02:39  <planetmaker> yes. I saw that. And that's nice.
20:03:05  <planetmaker> If you need fast feedback: send him your privately build version. But keep the rest as is.
20:03:15  <andythenorth> so...pms
20:03:22  <Ammler> why?
20:03:23  <andythenorth> I have no problem with that
20:03:34  <Ammler> why do you need him to test now?
20:03:47  <Ammler> why is it too late, if you get feedback tomorrow?
20:03:55  <andythenorth> because I want to get stuff done?
20:04:04  <andythenorth> today I have a lot of complicated production code in my head
20:04:18  <andythenorth> tomorrow I have forgotten that because I've done 50 other things since
20:04:27  <Ammler> :-)
20:04:58  <planetmaker> The reason for that is simple:
20:05:03  <planetmaker> a) andy will be happy
20:05:09  <planetmaker> b) maybe Kogut will be happy
20:05:25  <planetmaker> c) in the end probably both will see that it most often doesn't pose much of an advantage ;-)
20:05:32  <planetmaker> d) haste doesn't pay
20:05:48  <planetmaker> e) still 'release often' is a good idea. ;-)
20:06:21  <planetmaker> yet still, sometimes a quick checkback can be useful
20:06:34  <planetmaker> I also did it with the FIRS translations
20:08:48  <andythenorth> No. 7 here:
20:08:49  <Webster> Title: The Lean Manufacturing Handbook (at
20:08:58  <andythenorth> I couldn't find a better link
20:09:07  <andythenorth> it's in the toyota way book, but that's dead tree
20:11:09  <planetmaker> yes, so what?
20:11:48  <andythenorth> building work around waiting for a machine is inhuman?
20:12:17  <andythenorth> we could schedule google searches
20:12:21  <andythenorth> but we don't :D
20:12:33  <andythenorth> do you really need those results now?
20:12:53  * planetmaker is totally lost. And has currently little patience for parabolas
20:13:11  <andythenorth> I think we are on tangents
20:13:23  <andythenorth> Ammler: the RC idea is bad?  We should drop it?
20:18:19  <andythenorth> hmm
20:18:24  * andythenorth has small brainwave
20:18:40  <andythenorth> no need to put it on Bananas when released
20:18:42  <andythenorth> problem solved
20:19:06  <andythenorth> simples
20:19:56  <planetmaker> he. true :-)
20:20:27  <andythenorth> forums users can test and report bugs
20:20:40  <andythenorth> bananas users don't get a broken grf that confuses them
20:20:53  * andythenorth updates personal 'how to release' doc
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21:13:07  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- a file including the cargo translation table and the refit properties of each vehicle type would allow us to compare and fix cargo issues more easily, and the file would be almost identical between both sets
21:13:35  <Terkhen> IIRC the only different part I have is to allow the bulk truck to refit to rubber
21:14:51  <planetmaker> that's a good idea actually. Adding the refit stuff to the CTT file
21:15:01  <planetmaker> via a define or so
21:15:29  <Terkhen> that diff works, so it would not be very complicated to complete it for all cargos / vehicles
21:17:00  <Terkhen> hmm... actually, making another define for the common properties of each generation of trucks would have saved me a lot of time
21:17:21  <planetmaker> :-D
21:17:30  <planetmaker> actually... me, too
21:17:40  <planetmaker> for the rail / maglev / monorail stuff
21:17:50  <Terkhen> time for a bit of code cleanup :)
21:20:03  <Terkhen> what could be a good name for the file with cargo table & refit properties? I'm thinking about cargo_definitions
21:21:25  <planetmaker> might be a good name, yes
21:40:40  <Terkhen> <--- the final result looks like this (big diff)
21:43:01  <Terkhen> I defined the less useful refit types too for consistency
21:46:09  <planetmaker> you have interesting piece goods refit properties
21:47:20  <planetmaker> quite lengthy exceptions or additions
21:48:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 109:0ba5fdbfd11d: Fix (r108): Always add also stuff moved to their own... (planetmaker) @
21:48:18  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't remember changing them, so they are probably a copy of the ones at ogfx-trains
21:48:49  <planetmaker> :-D
21:48:51  <planetmaker> indeed
21:49:22  <Terkhen> most of them are copypaste; both for consistency and lazyness
21:51:06  <planetmaker> :-) I prefer a naming of REFIT_PROPERTIES_BULK than BULK_REFIT_PROPERTIES. But I guess that doesn't matter much
21:51:23  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't mind the change but I already pushed
21:51:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 54:7a7cba8f718a: Codechange: Create definitions for refit prope... (Terkhen) @
21:51:50  <Terkhen> let's do a codechange of a codechange :D
21:58:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 55:64450ba4b5c7: Codechange: Rename the refit properties defini... (Terkhen) @
22:01:30  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 56:4cbe4e34d959: Codechange: Use the passenger definitions for ... (Terkhen) @
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22:20:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 110:057f99ce55d7: Add: Global definitions for refit properties (planetmaker) @
22:20:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 111:0a8e497b5ebd: Codechange: Make use of the global cargo refit prope... (planetmaker) @
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22:24:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1885 (New): Mixed Farm doesn't appear to plant fields when b... (andythenorth) @
22:26:11  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 16:2372821bbc83: Add: code to check for up to five different ... (DJNekkid) @
22:27:01  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 112:72426af45b1c: Codechange: Separate the cargo definitions into thei... (planetmaker) @
22:27:49  <Terkhen> <--- the properties are a bit simpler now
22:31:02  <Terkhen> hmm... I'm doing the same naming mistake again
22:33:16  * avdg wants to collect more information about the possibilities for a webservice with openttd
22:35:09  <Rubidium> talk to spcomb
22:36:04  <planetmaker> he :-) Generally I prefer to put the major category first and the specification last in defines. But looks nice
22:37:26  <Terkhen> I agree, but I tend to write the thing I'm thinking about in the moment first
22:37:32  <Terkhen> I changed them to TRUCK_PROPERTIES_COMMON and so on
22:38:01  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 17:b329873e44ea: Change: Update to the testtrain2 gfx (DJNekkid) @
22:39:46  <avdg> pm: I just want some information before I can continue with the project
22:40:03  <avdg> that maybe explains why it differs
22:40:55  <planetmaker> hm?
22:40:56  <avdg> if you are talking about the specifications at least
22:43:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 113:f1037fbffd2a: Codechange: Use a distinct name prefix for engine-re... (planetmaker) @
22:45:10  <planetmaker> I've no idea what you talk about right now, avdg
22:45:18  <avdg> then ignore me :p
22:45:44  <planetmaker> maybe that's caused by you not having asked a question yet :-P
22:45:52  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 57:84b4cc52a262: Codechange: Use definitions for truck properties. (Terkhen) @
22:45:56  <avdg> I just need some information on
22:46:04  <Terkhen> there goes my testing game...
22:46:05  <avdg> thats all :p
22:46:06  <Terkhen> good night
22:46:30  <planetmaker> good night, Terkhen
22:52:50  <planetmaker> Ok, I guess that's too vague and too late for me now, avdg
22:54:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 114:2b0c8ca75168: Add: Refit capability for the engines which have car... (planetmaker) @
23:00:15  <planetmaker> good night
23:03:36  <avdg> gn
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23:49:06  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 18:a42a99e1ae7f: Add: Autogenerated purchaselist texts (DJNekkid) @
23:49:38  <DJNekkid> hi Webster
23:49:38  <Webster> hi DJNekkid :)
23:49:44  <DJNekkid> welshdragon i mean
23:49:48  <DJNekkid> tab 4tw
23:55:28  <welshdragon> lol
23:55:30  <welshdragon> hello
23:58:53  <DJNekkid> im about to upload a test-grf for you guys :)

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