Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 10th December 2010:
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11:25:40  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 45:96b23888b15b: Change: some publicity for PluginDescriptor (dih) @
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14:37:58  <Ammler> : "There are frequently branches of OpenTTD such as CargoDestinations (CargoDIst), InfrastructureSharing2 or ExtraZoomLevels. These branches of OTTD are made from players, with added patches, to improve gameplay." <-- quite useless without link
14:38:00  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - Need some help ? Have a read of this first !! (at
14:56:07  <Yexo> planetmaker: do we have graphics for any articulated vehicle in nml?
14:56:30  <planetmaker> road vehicle?
14:56:34  <planetmaker> not that I know
14:56:36  <Yexo> doesn't matter much
14:57:06  <planetmaker> But it's of course easy to use engines and wagons as articulated vehicle, I guess
14:57:13  <planetmaker> I haven't coded any such, though
14:57:38  <planetmaker> E.g. the turbotrain sprites would fit quite well to be used as articulated vehicle
14:59:54  <Yexo> I might just code one of the horse carriages from eGRVTS in nml
15:00:59  <Yexo> are there any sources available for that or do I have to decode the grf?
15:03:24  <planetmaker> OpenGFX has the whole egrvts image. But I know no egrvts sources
15:03:50  <Yexo> so turbotrain will be easier
15:05:02  <planetmaker> maybe better idea: Make from OpenGFX+RV an articulated tram
15:05:11  <planetmaker> By just using the existing tram images.
15:05:18  <planetmaker> Terkhen might buy that from you then :-P
15:05:43  <planetmaker> ^ Yexo
15:05:51  <Yexo> thanks, I'll do that :)
15:07:51  <Terkhen> just having a code example of that would be great :)
15:10:02  <planetmaker> And then prodding DanMacK to produce images for a truely articulated one :-P
15:19:27  <dih> yexo, enjoyed your reply :)
15:20:23  <Yexo> thanks
15:21:15  <planetmaker> so did I :-)
15:29:15  <dih> @logs
15:29:15  <Webster> Logs:
15:33:20  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1084:33b373b127c2: Fix: switch blocks with a min/max range where ... (yexo) @
15:49:59  <Terkhen> everything seems as complicated as in NFO until you see a nice NML example :)
15:50:16  <Terkhen> I think I was missing VEH_CBF_ARTICULATED_PARTS when I tried to create an articulated vehicle
15:52:18  <Yexo> one thing I particulary dislike is that you _need_ to manually assign ids for it to work
15:53:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1085:26d6c38f998e: Fix: ast/ didn't include nml.e... (yexo) @
15:53:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1086:53c243de360f: Add: regression test 'articulated tram' (yexo) @
15:53:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1087:1e8991d98bd9: Add: graphics for last regression test (yexo) @
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16:14:13  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 238:c6c40f2df142: Change: [NML] Language handling changed in NML (planetmaker) @
16:15:35  <Yexo> planetmaker: maybe also add ##plural 0 to the english.lng file?
16:16:00  <planetmaker> what purpose does that serve?
16:16:17  <Yexo> setting the plural type for the language
16:16:23  <Yexo> it's needed to use the P string code
16:17:01  <planetmaker> oh, without it doesn't work?
16:17:18  <planetmaker> then I guess it's needed
16:17:18  <Yexo> see possible values here:
16:17:39  <Yexo> it's only needed when the {P "" ""} string code is actually used
16:18:03  <Yexo> but it always generates an action0, so maybe it's better to leave it out of the example project
16:18:55  <planetmaker> well, that's not that bad... but I guess not that many people will remember to check for that
16:19:31  <Yexo> nml will spit out a warning/error i fyou try to use {P without setting the plural form, so that shnouldn't be a problem
16:19:47  <planetmaker> then I'll leave it out
16:20:11  <planetmaker> as probably only industry newgrfs need it
16:20:24  <Yexo> most likely, yes
16:21:25  <planetmaker> still: thanks for pointing it out. Now I'm maybe aware of it when I come accross that :-)
16:39:14  <Yexo> planetmaker: do you have access to python 2.5.2 to test #2009 ?
16:39:47  <Yexo> does adding "from __future__ import with_statement" at the top of fix the problem?
16:39:59  <planetmaker> yes
16:40:13  <planetmaker> that is what I got when I tried to compile on my university computer ;-)
16:40:35  <planetmaker> let's see...
16:41:59  <planetmaker> hm, without quotes, I assume?
16:42:05  <planetmaker> Then the answer is "no"
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16:49:40  <Yexo> hmm, every documentation I can find says it's introduced in python 2.5 (but you need the import with_statement in 2.5, in 2.6 that's no longer needed)
16:49:56  <Yexo> so if that doesn't fix it I have no idea how to fix it (apart from using try/except syntax instead)
16:56:05  <planetmaker> hm
16:59:18  <planetmaker> Yexo: I could give you access to that machine, if you want to try things
16:59:28  <Yexo> I would have no idea what to try
17:01:48  <Yexo> did you also try to add the above line to
17:01:54  <Yexo> that is the file actually using it
17:02:01  <Yexo> sorry for suggesting the wrong file
17:03:09  <planetmaker> yes, that changes things. New error:
17:03:38  <planetmaker>
17:05:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1088:4175195963ca: Fix: wrong syntax for try/except (yexo) @
17:05:40  <Yexo> fixed ^^
17:06:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1089:0f04c50d7292: Fix: the with statement needs to be imported t... (yexo) @
17:07:09  <Yexo> my guess is that you'll get an error about some language file being incorret
17:07:22  <planetmaker> why?
17:07:54  <Yexo> because the last error you pastebinned was in the exception handling in the string code
17:08:29  <Yexo> so either python 2.6 is a bit more lenient wrt to syntax errors there (or there is some new syntax introduced) or your language files contain an error
17:08:46  <planetmaker> well, it works fine without error
17:08:50  <Brot6> nml: update from r1077 to r1089 done -
17:08:53  <Yexo> ok, great :)
17:09:04  <planetmaker> also without complaint about language files ;-)
17:09:29  <planetmaker> because the very same thing compiles here quite well
17:09:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2009 (Closed): nmlc fails with syntax error on python 2.5.2 (planetmaker) @
17:09:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2009 (Closed): nmlc fails with syntax error on python 2.5.2 (yexo) @
17:09:44  <planetmaker> thanks for the fix :-)
17:10:12  <Yexo> except generic.ScriptError as err: <- apparently that is valid in python 2.6 but not in 2.5, the latter needs: except generic.ScriptError, err
17:10:47  <planetmaker> yep, just looked at your commits :-)
17:18:07  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r237 to r238 done -
17:18:43  <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r190 to r193 done -
17:18:48  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r686), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r40), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1582), fish (r423), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r811), heqs (r553), indonesiantowns (r39), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), nml (r1089), nutracks (r120), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r199), ogfx-trees (r41), opengfx (r568), openmsx
17:18:48  <Brot6> (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r669)
17:20:48  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 6), belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors), manindu, ogfx-rv (1 errors), ogfx-trains, swisstowns
17:33:27  <Brot6> Grapes - Feature Request #1752 (Closed): Generic Configuration Support (dih) @
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17:37:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: don't you use the commit2png anymore?
17:38:02  <planetmaker> hm?
17:38:29  <planetmaker> oh, the signature pics?
17:38:45  <planetmaker> I didn't change my signatures. Obviously the links are broken
17:38:51  <Ammler>
17:39:19  <planetmaker> 500
17:39:45  <Ammler> yes, I needed to visit to see my broken sig
17:40:01  <Ammler> I wonder, you didn't report it yet :-P
17:41:36  <planetmaker> :-)
17:42:00  <planetmaker> Well, there are more important things :-)
17:42:07  <planetmaker> And you seemed a bit stressed recently
17:42:09  <planetmaker> ;-)
17:42:12  <Ammler> really? tell me?
17:42:30  <planetmaker> heqs parameters :-P
17:42:56  <Ammler> I thought more important todos for me
17:43:09  <planetmaker> no :-)
17:43:17  <Ammler> phhu
17:43:25  <planetmaker> it's working nicely :-)
17:43:50  <Ammler> the whole vps infrastructure is working nice indeed
17:43:54  <Ammler> and no cpu usage
17:43:59  <planetmaker> :-)
17:44:05  <Ammler> and stell around 5 gb memory free
17:44:10  <Ammler> still*
17:44:38  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
17:44:42  <Ammler> inclusive my private vm :-)
17:46:22  <Ammler> next big thing will be converting the openvz to LXC
17:47:21  <Ammler> and next little thing will be, rewrite of the devzone cf
17:53:32  <planetmaker> he :-)
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19:02:57  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21443 to r21450 done (2 errors) -
19:05:23  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21443 to r21450 done -
19:05:59  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21450 still failed (#1965) -
19:18:50  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010 (New): New Taurus graphics (Voyager1) @
19:20:33  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010: New Taurus graphics (Ammler) @
19:26:26  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1090:92a8adef244c: Fix: raising an exception about an invalid fea... (yexo) @
19:29:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1091:1a5b5b878b6b: Add: regression test for the new feature use l... (yexo) @
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21:36:41  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 812:e8cc801c5179: Add: support for object property 17 and variable 48 (Rubidium) @
21:40:40  * Rubidium ponders the feasibility of releasing grfcodec 5.1.0
21:41:19  <planetmaker> might be nice
21:51:23  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 813:19d2fe3f473f: Update: some documentation (Rubidium) @
21:51:23  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 814:2c264ab6c171: Added tag 5.1.0 for changeset 19d2fe3f473f (Rubidium) @
21:54:55  <Ammler> \o/
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21:58:26  <Brot6> GRFCodec - GRFCodec 5.1.0 (Rubidium) @
22:23:10  <Yexo> I totally forgot to ask, but maybe png could be made the default decode format?
22:24:41  <Rubidium> yes, we (Lakie and I) discussed that and agreed that we'd postpone changing the default till after 5.1.0
22:24:48  <Rubidium> which means you're right on time to remind me
22:25:01  <Yexo> ok :)
22:31:43  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 815:662a14121081: Make PNG the default output sprite sheet format if libpng i... (Rubidium) @
22:39:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1583:b3a19d0b7684: Change: make Builders Yard simple bla... (andythenorth) @
22:47:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1584:d79013ed5241: Change: make Petrol Pump simple black... (andythenorth) @
22:55:36  <Ammler> he, silly, you decided before the release to make png default but change it after release?
22:56:41  <Rubidium> no, not silly
22:57:30  <planetmaker> transition
22:57:48  <Rubidium> I'll call it maturing
22:58:21  <Ammler> I call it double confusing :-)
23:03:46  <Ammler> also it would be nice, if grfcodec would fail per dafult without png like you do in openttd
23:04:21  <Ammler> then you need something like DISABLE_PNG=1
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23:04:51  <Rubidium> openttd doesn't fail if it misses freetype/fontconfig/png/icu
23:04:55  <Ammler> I forgot to enable it on obs :-(
23:05:15  <Ammler> Rubidium: but it does without e.g. lzo2
23:05:37  <Ammler> specially since openttd will need grfcodec with png
23:05:49  <Rubidium> yes, missing those causes savegames to fail to load
23:06:07  <Ammler> missing png causes openttd to fail to build
23:06:30  <Yexo> openttd comes with the grf files so you don't even need grfcodec to build it
23:06:50  <Ammler> then openttd should test if the installed grfcodec has png support
23:08:56  <Ammler> (I just mentioned my troubles...) :-)
23:12:03  <Rubidium> but... old grfcodec just pretend they know the parameter, so you can't quite test the existance of it
23:12:32  <Ammler> who is "they"?
23:14:06  <Ammler> just mention it with grfcodec -v which does actually have copyright by "Josef Dexler", is that legal?
23:15:32  <Ammler> maybe better to output something like "GRFCodec 5.1.0 (libpng12)" or whatever
23:20:40  <Rubidium> Ammler: GPL says to not remove copyright notices :)
23:22:39  <Ammler> ok, if you think it belongs to -v, then you should at least update it
23:23:31  <Ammler> 2000-2005 JD, 2006-2009 DS, 2010 RB
23:25:08  <Ammler> I am also quite sure, GPL says to mention co authors
23:27:02  <Ammler> I am not aware of another software mention the copyright with --version
23:27:30  <Ammler> (except maybe nforenum) :-)
23:34:03  <Ammler> s/JD/PM/
23:34:22  <planetmaker> hm?
23:34:29  <Ammler> patchman
23:34:33  <Ammler> :-P
23:34:53  <planetmaker> :-D
23:35:25  <frosch123> [00:27] <Ammler> I am not aware of another software mention the copyright with --version <- most do that
23:35:41  <Ammler> frosch123: tell me one not related to openttd :-)
23:35:47  <frosch123> tar --version
23:35:50  <frosch123> gzip --version
23:36:02  <Ammler> no
23:36:08  <Ammler> that is just the license
23:36:20  <Ammler> written by... hmm
23:36:32  <frosch123> Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
23:36:35  <frosch123> Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.
23:36:40  <frosch123> and for gzip:
23:36:48  <frosch123> Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
23:36:48  <Ammler> yes, I already saw :-P
23:36:49  <frosch123> Copyright (C) 1993 Jean-loup Gailly.
23:40:08  <Ammler> I am confused, does the copyright by FSF mean, it is GPL or needs that more work?
23:40:32  <planetmaker> it means that the FSF may sue people who violate the GPL on those programmes
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23:40:45  <planetmaker> otherwise the authors would need to take action themselves
23:41:16  <Ammler> but what is the difference between software licensed under GPL and software copyrighted by FSF?
23:41:31  <frosch123> Ammler: fsf is like a company
23:41:37  <planetmaker> copyright is not a license
23:41:39  <frosch123> you donate your copyright to them
23:41:47  <planetmaker> I also hold the copyright on those GPL'ed stuff I do
23:41:49  <Ammler> how do you do that?
23:42:03  <Ammler> I mean, shouldn't you do that with openttd etc.?
23:42:07  <frosch123> no
23:42:14  <frosch123> it is openttd, not gnuttd
23:42:55  <planetmaker> trains would gallop then. Would look funny
23:43:04  <frosch123> the license is free to use, you can keep your rights, and do not have to give them to the fsf
23:43:24  <Ammler> yes, but that causes a lot troubles
23:43:35  <frosch123> e.g. the fsf is free to relicense the stuff which it has the copyright off
23:43:44  <Ammler> liek you can't change the license of openttd because you need to ask everyone ever contributed
23:44:49  <Ammler> it might be already too late anyway ;-)
23:47:42  <Ammler> wow, membership at FSF is quite expensive
23:49:10  <frosch123> haha, buying membership is like advertising
23:50:01  <frosch123> how much would you pay for being allowed calling yourself a ottd developer :p
23:51:46  <Ammler> I already pay too much for beeing a openttd fan
23:51:58  <frosch123> :p
23:52:57  <frosch123> night
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23:53:06  <Ammler> mäh, already again :-(
23:58:26  <planetmaker> hm, again?

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