Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 16th December 2010:
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00:00:15  <gelignite> hmm, my package manager lists a zlib1g with version
00:01:09  <Ammler> pm, why does zlib matter? it is unpacked
00:01:25  <planetmaker> hm. bad version. Even though there is IIRC a work around the zlib issues
00:01:42  <Ammler> ah, Isee
00:02:08  <planetmaker> gelignite: are the tar files the same, yours and the (re-)downloaded ones from bananas? Same content, no files truncated?
00:02:37  <gelignite> the md5sums match so i guess they are the same
00:02:55  <Ammler> you made your own md5sum?
00:03:32  <planetmaker> where does it say that they match, gelignite ?
00:04:31  <gelignite> i did a "md5sum FILENAME" in bash :-) i guess i should have done it in another way?
00:04:48  <planetmaker> that's fine
00:05:09  <planetmaker> on both files, though, I assume? ;-)
00:07:05  <planetmaker> There was a certain combinations of zlib versions and OpenTTD where bananas downloads claimed to be successful but actually failed due to zlib eating the last chunk. That's why I've been asking
00:09:36  <Ammler> hmm
00:09:47  <Ammler> I guess, there is another issue
00:10:13  <Ammler> anyway, would be nice, if you can test this also with nightly/trunk and report
00:31:20  <planetmaker> g'night
00:31:26  <Yexo> gelignite: there is a problem with your info.nut file
00:31:54  <Yexo> so openttd fails to register the downloaded file as your AI, so when you go to online content it doesn't 'see' your local copy and thinks it isn't downloaded yet
00:33:04  <Yexo> the problem is the string returned by GetDescription, it isn't valid to split it over two lines
00:33:22  <Yexo> if you really want to do it likes this: "part a" + <newline> "part b"
00:33:32  <Ammler> shouldn't openttd in this case decline to load the file?
00:33:43  <Yexo> it does decline to load it
00:33:59  <Yexo> that's why it doesn't show up in the AI menu and neither as already downloaded
00:34:08  <Ammler> he, so he never tested his ai before he uploaded to bananas?
00:34:43  <Yexo> or tested, made a small modification and uploaded that
00:34:48  <Yexo> ^^ has happened to me too
00:35:11  <Yexo> anyway, the current version on bananas is broken, it's not openttd's fault
00:37:07  <gelignite> Yexo, thanks for the hint. that was it. i've updated it and it is working now. thank you.
00:38:02  <gelignite> i changed the info.nut after last test and didn't check it again :-(
00:38:34  <Yexo> if you didn't restart openttd to test again you wouldn't notice it
00:39:34  <Yexo> ::Stop()
00:39:34  <Yexo>  <- that function will never be called by OpenTTD, so unless you plan to use it yourself you don't need to implement it
00:42:39  <Yexo> if( !this.group_id && this.group_id != 0 )
00:42:39  <Yexo>  <- afair '0' is a valid group id and can be returned by AIGroup.CreateGroup
00:43:11  <Yexo> !this.group_id will succeed for both false and 0 though, so you probably need a check like if (this.group_id != false)
00:43:15  <gelignite> now the uploaded version crashes whereas the local version runs fine?! I'm lost ...
00:43:30  <gelignite> yeah 0 would be a possible value
00:43:56  <gelignite> the problem there would be that i get Group 0 and Group 1 if i only check for !
00:44:09  <gelignite> all vehicles should be in group 0
00:44:39  <Yexo> did you try to check only for "this.group_id != false" ?
00:44:50  <Yexo> * == false
00:45:47  <Yexo> I can't get your new uploaded version to crash though
00:48:58  <Yexo> congratulations on your first AI on bananas :)
00:49:16  <Yexo> the easiest way to get some feedback will be to open a topic at
00:52:48  <gelignite> thanks. it now didn't crash here, too. don't know where that previous crash came from.
00:52:55  <gelignite> is squirrel type safe or is there something to regard like PHP's "==" and "===" when doing comparisons?
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00:59:48  <Brot6> AI: gelignAIte - Revision 1:70bc649976c8: Removed newline in GetDescription() that makes info.nut... (gelignite) @
01:01:08  <Yexo> there is no === operator
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01:03:05  <Yexo> in my AI I've used "= null;" in the constructor and "== null" checks (or "!= null") instead of assinging false and testing for that
01:04:34  <gelignite> yeah, that might be the better way
01:05:38  <gelignite> i'll think about that over night. thanks for your help everyone. good night altogether
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04:47:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2022 (New): FS Class e428 (EmperorJake) @
06:34:24  <planetmaker> moin
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11:28:58  <Brot6> AI: gelignAIte - Revision 2:f0822049afc7: Micro-optimization ... (gelignite) @
11:30:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 200:1cbae39596c8: Change #1958: Modern bulk wagon changed appearance b... (planetmaker) @
12:29:55  <Brot6> #openttdcoop Server Patch Pack - Revision 8:6a180a52e293: Update/Doc: replace bb2, add meta infos... (Ammler) @
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13:46:07  <Brot6> AI: gelignAIte - Revision 3:db911e3547f4: Added GetAPIVersion() that returns "1.0". (gelignite) @
13:48:04  <Ammler> reboot... :-)
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14:11:34  <SmatZ_> hello Ammller, any problems? :(
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14:12:57  <Ammller> why?
14:13:19  <Ammller> SmatZ: something not working?
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14:14:05  <SmatZ_> Ammller: BNC going up and down :)
14:14:16  <Ammller> yeah, made 2 reboots
14:14:27  <Ammller> and might might need another one...
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14:15:05  <Ammller> you are quite unpatient :-P
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14:15:43  <SmatZ_> yes :)
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15:48:27  <Yexo> Hirundo: I need your help, I've been looking at spritelayouts for stations but I ran into some problems with SpriteGroupRef and friends
15:49:09  <Yexo> the most natural way to code spritelayouts for stations is to use the normal spritelayout block and reference it in a property-block
15:49:33  <Yexo> as far as I've understood all currently existing sprite-refs are resolved during the pre_proces stage
15:51:16  <Yexo> the property block however is almost completely resolved during the get_action_list stage
15:51:31  <Yexo> as such all my attempts to reference a spritelayout block from there have failed
15:52:02  <Yexo> is it possible to make it work with the current code at all or does the property-block code need to be changed so it can reference the spritelayout during the pre_process stage?
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16:49:14  <Hirundo> Yexo: What is your current status on stations? Just 'looking' or far into coding?
16:49:38  <Yexo> I _was_ far into coding, but I abandoned all my tries
16:49:57  <Yexo> I can't get it to work in the get_action_list stage
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16:51:40  <Hirundo> How would an NML station look?
16:52:18  <Yexo> <- basically a spritelayout that is referenced in a property-block
16:53:30  <Yexo> in nfo the spritelayout is not coded as action2 but directly encoded in the action0, so in the nml code  the item-block probably needs to get a reference to all used spritesets
16:54:41  <Hirundo> NFO stations are quirky to say the least, I wasn't really keen on directly copying its way of doing things
16:57:30  <Yexo> I'm not sure I get what you mean. Do you want a completely new nml syntax for them?
16:59:04  <Hirundo> No, I'd prefer them to work exactly like industry tiles etc
17:00:10  <Yexo> so the user will code it via a switch-block-chain and nml figures out which layouts are used in which station so it can write the action0?
17:00:59  <Hirundo> exactly
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17:02:44  <Yexo> that is going to be extremely difficult to code
17:02:52  <Hirundo> Alternatively, all layouts are written to the first station and the rest just copies them
17:03:40  <Yexo> when copying a layout, which action1 is referenced in the copied block? The original or a new one?
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17:04:17  <Hirundo> station layouts don't reference action0 directly IIRC
17:04:24  <Hirundo> s/action0/action1
17:05:11  <Yexo> 0000042D+X	use sprite X from the corresponding action 1 block (i.e. 0000042D for the first, 0000042E for the second, etc.)  <- from
17:05:39  <Hirundo> that action1 block is determined by the action2 that terminates the chain
17:06:34  <Hirundo> tbh, I hadn't planned for stations to get done before #1555
17:06:51  <Hirundo>
17:07:32  <Hirundo> Which allows the 'select layout' and 'select sprites' (=0x00) to point to the same callback, making the whole thing a lot more elegant to the user
17:08:18  <Yexo> ok, I'lll leave stations alone for a while then
17:08:24  <Hirundo> 'select layout' being CB 14
17:08:26  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r816 to r817 done -
17:09:08  <Hirundo> Then, we can also do away with most of the '8 tile types' stuff entirely
17:10:39  <Ammler> would it be nice to have project hirarchy like kde:
17:10:41  <Webster> Title: KDevelop-PG-Qt - Overview - KDE Projects (at
17:11:58  <Ammler> e.g. for nml from /projects/nml to /projects/grftools/nml
17:12:06  <Yexo> don't we have that already? (except for the urls)
17:12:18  <Ammler> yes, that is what I mean
17:12:34  <Yexo> and personally I prefer the urls as-is, because it means you can move them between categories when needed
17:12:36  <Ammler> kde does have that for the url too, I wonder, if I shall apply that patch
17:13:31  <Ammler> hmm, true
17:14:05  <Hirundo> Yexo: I hope I can work on NML again in the next two (holiday) weeks, perhaps we could push out 0.1.0[-beta]
17:14:37  <Yexo> I'll be in Berlin next week, and I probably won't have/spend any time on nml/openttd
17:16:00  <planetmaker> you're in Berlin over Christmas?!
17:16:11  <Yexo> no, the 20th to 24th
17:16:21  <planetmaker> :-)
17:17:53  <Brot6> fish: update from r429 to r432 done (4 errors) -
17:18:15  <Brot6> heqs: update from r563 to r566 done -
17:18:26  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r239 to r241 done -
17:18:35  <Ammler> damn fast
17:18:48  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r199 to r200 done -
17:19:07  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1848: string codes (yexo) @
17:19:41  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r575 to r577 done -
17:19:46  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r686), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r40), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1585), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r817), indonesiantowns (r39), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), nml (r1118), nutracks (r120), ogfx-nogrid (r11), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trees (r41), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod
17:19:46  <Brot6> (r45), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r669)
17:20:15  <Yexo> Hirundo: can #1695 be closed soon?
17:20:25  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1760: Improve documentation on getting nml up & running (yexo) @
17:20:45  <Yexo> Ammler: Brot6 no longer automatically links issue references? (like #1695 above)
17:21:48  <Ammler> hmm
17:21:59  <Ammler> indeed? need to investigate :-)
17:22:00  <Hirundo> Yexo: Yes
17:22:45  <Yexo> allmost all other issues listed for 0.1 are "missing documentation" tickets
17:23:13  <Hirundo> 90% of #1695 is documentation as well
17:23:41  <Ammler> could you check what is broken on the projects above?
17:23:51  <Ammler> it didn't work
17:24:06  <Ammler>
17:24:25  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (8 errors), 32bpp-extra (Diffsize: 1), basecosts, bros, comic-houses (2 errors) (Diffsize: 14), firs (Diffsize: 888), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), nutracks (2 errors), ogfx-trees, smts (Diffsize: 8), snowlinemod, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 12), ttrs (7 errors) (Diffsize: 1324), worldairlinersset
17:24:54  <planetmaker> x-trains/*.nfo': No such file or directory <-- seems at least wrong, Ammler
17:24:55  <Yexo> Ammler: what didn't work? I see no error listed
17:25:14  <Ammler> ah never mind
17:25:24  <Ammler> the error is missing grf2html
17:26:36  <Ammler> hmm
17:27:58  <planetmaker> Yexo: I'm sure I asked before... but obviously I missed to make a note on it: how do I just create a sprite list like needed for OpenGFX without using actionA / replace(xxx, "path/to/file") { template_name }
17:29:01  <Yexo> not possible anymore
17:29:11  <Yexo> spritesets are not written out unless referenced by something
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17:30:31  <Yexo> you'll have to ask Hirundo how easy it is to work around that by introducing a commandline option to write all spritesets
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17:31:25  <Hirundo> As what would you write them out?
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17:31:33  <Yexo> only the real sprites
17:31:55  <Yexo> it's only needed for grfs (not newgrfs, just grfs)
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17:32:46  <planetmaker> he, I see. That might explain why I didn't find a way :-)
17:32:48  <Hirundo> That should not be hard
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17:33:22  <Hirundo> Question is whether using sprite sets for this is the Right Thing (tm)
17:33:39  <frosch123> what is the advantage of using nml for plain grfs?
17:33:58  <frosch123> if grfcodec *that* broken? :o
17:34:42  <planetmaker> frosch123: the templating power for sprite sets
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17:35:07  <frosch123> ah :)
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17:36:04  <Ammler> so, now with #1695 ?
17:36:08  <planetmaker> <-- that was quite convenient :-)
17:36:11  <Ammler> hmm
17:36:19  <Brot6> Ammler: so: #1695 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1695: sprite block restructuring - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
17:37:21  <planetmaker> other than those templates, there's really no reason for using nml over grfcodec with plain grfs
17:39:03  <Hirundo> I think it's best to have a generic grf/newgrf switch
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17:39:29  <Hirundo> planetmaker: does the ogfx 'extra' grf have an action8?
17:39:31  <Ammler> oh, it worked?
17:39:56  <Ammler> just a bit laggy?
17:40:17  <planetmaker> Hirundo: yes. That's a newgrf
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17:40:55  <Yexo> action8 is currently functioning as grf/newgrf switch
17:41:00  <Ammler> Brot6: you are able to make links from #1000 now?
17:41:22  <Hirundo> That's not really desirable IMO, as omitting a grf block may be an error
17:41:46  <planetmaker> it is a serious error crashing OpenTTD on not only the odd occasion
17:41:55  <Yexo> true, but before you spriteblock/spriteset recode it worked quite fine
17:42:19  <Hirundo> Main reason to omit them, is because there is no feature defined for them
17:42:24  <Yexo> planetmaker: ? omitting an action8 shouldn't cause any problems for openttd
17:42:38  <Yexo> I know :)
17:42:45  <planetmaker> ehm... I mis-read. Omitting a sprite in a base grf
17:42:59  <Yexo> ah :)
17:43:02  <Hirundo> planetmaker: open a ticket about it :)
17:43:12  <Yexo> won't be solved
17:43:20  <Yexo> tmwftlb, base sets just need to be correct
17:43:33  <planetmaker> Yexo: you mean to catch that crash? No need for.
17:43:40  <planetmaker> I'm with you there
17:43:56  <Yexo> yes,I meant that
17:48:38  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2023 (New): support for base sets (planetmaker) @
17:56:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/please-create-the-repo not registered in Redmine: Failed with 422 Unprocessable Entity
17:56:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/please-create-the-repo created
17:57:18  <dihedral> :-S
17:57:26  * dihedral points
17:57:29  <dihedral> Ammler?
17:57:31  <dihedral> :-P
17:57:53  <Ammler> dihedral: please tell, don't just highlight :-P
17:58:47  <Terkhen> :D
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18:00:40  <V453000> don't tell him The Secret
18:01:11  <dihedral> i am just pointing at the last 2 messages from Brot :-)
18:02:48  <planetmaker> dihedral: they give the general direction but certainly not enough information
18:03:06  <dihedral> computer broken
18:03:10  <dihedral> not working
18:03:12  <dihedral> fix?
18:03:14  <dihedral> :-P
18:03:21  <planetmaker> ...
18:03:29  <dihedral> "do you have a mac or a pc" .... "yes"
18:07:58  <planetmaker> so you created the-repo-with-the-long-name-just-to-put-work-on-Ammlers-shoulders?
18:08:30  <dihedral> neva
18:08:49  <planetmaker> well. You did.
18:09:05  <dihedral> i did not
18:09:22  <dihedral> i thought your logs should show who created that project
18:10:41  <planetmaker> but you don't care to be helpful, do you?
18:10:55  <Ammler> I did :-P
18:11:13  <planetmaker> he
18:11:37  <dihedral> i'll try to take that as a compliment
18:11:53  <Ammler> I might again downgrade redmine
18:12:26  <Ammler> the patch queue seems not working prober anymore with trunk
18:12:41  <planetmaker> hm, bad
18:13:07  <dihedral> why do you use trunk of redmine and not the stable releases?
18:14:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/please-create-the-repo not registered in Redmine: Failed with 422 Unprocessable Entity
18:14:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/please-create-the-repo created
18:15:51  <Ammler> because I use around 20 patches :-)
18:16:41  <Ammler> <-- that is only a part of the patches
18:19:39  <dihedral> just out of curiosity... why? i mean, what is std. redmine missing?
18:22:34  <Ammler> basically mercurial support
18:23:30  <dihedral> ohhhhh
18:24:13  <Ammler>
18:24:16  <Webster> Title: Redmine - Patch #4455: Mercurial overhaul - Redmine (at
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19:02:28  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21525 to r21532 done (4 errors) -
19:04:40  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:06:59  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r21362 to h8f96a256 done -
19:10:48  <Ammler> hmm
19:16:50  <Brot6> #openttdcoop Server Patch Pack - Revision 9:494232dd4a5f: Fix: use the findversion patch from cpp... (Ammler) @
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20:43:40  <gelignite> how to distinguish trams from buses/trucks? at the moment i distinguish trucks from buses by AICargo.GetCargoLabel which returns either "PASS" or "MAIL" (for my case). but trams would also return "PASS" and are from the same vehicle type AIVehicle.VT_ROAD :-(
20:48:10  <dihedral> i would suggest asking that in #openttd
20:48:15  <dihedral> greater audience
20:53:36  <DJNekkid> would this work?
20:54:07  <DJNekkid>
20:54:08  <Webster> Title: #1383806 - Pastie (at
20:57:52  <Rubidium> not sure about the 2 extra #s, but I guess it will
20:58:30  <Rubidium> hmm, oh... the logical is wrong
20:59:04  <DJNekkid> thoose two extra were to hightlight thoose lines
20:59:14  <Rubidium> if I define THIS_ENG_LENGTH2 and don't define THIS_ENG_LENGTH3, then both will be included
20:59:19  <Rubidium> so use
20:59:37  <DJNekkid> && or something?
20:59:43  <Rubidium> #if defined(THIS_ENG_LENGTH2) || defined(THIS_ENG_LENGTH3)
20:59:44  <Rubidium> ...
20:59:46  <Rubidium> #else
20:59:47  <Rubidium> ...
20:59:49  <Rubidium> #endif
21:01:06  <DJNekkid>
21:01:07  <Webster> Title: #1383833 - Pastie (at
21:01:07  <DJNekkid> then
21:01:30  <Rubidium> yep
21:01:37  <DJNekkid> awsome :D
21:02:04  <DJNekkid> should remove a couple of templates :D
21:02:51  <planetmaker> gelignite: vehicles which are trams have a special flag set within the newgrf specification
21:03:03  <planetmaker> I guess that can be queried by AIs, too
21:03:33  <DJNekkid> btw, does anyone watch star trek here?
21:03:45  <planetmaker> currently: no
21:03:53  <DJNekkid> well, in general :)
21:03:58  <planetmaker> In principle: yes. But kinda meanwhile long ago :-)
21:04:06  <planetmaker> nothing new there ;-)
21:05:17  <DJNekkid> a fun "dualogy" to see is the TOS episode "trouble with the tribles", and then the DS9 episode "Trials and trible-action"
21:05:35  <DJNekkid> season2 episode 15 and season 5 episode 06
21:05:54  <DJNekkid> and btw, TOS is out on blueray (and such torrent)
21:06:10  <DJNekkid> AWSOME picture quality, and upgraded CGI
21:06:13  <planetmaker> well... No blueray for me ;-)
21:06:21  <DJNekkid> me either :P
21:10:09  <Ammler> DJNekkid: nice how they explained the change of the Klingons
21:10:36  <Ammler> "don't ask" or something....
21:10:37  * Lakie wonders if frosh ever decided about adding var7b in the end
21:10:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 578:d7afe1aa33e6: Doc: Update readme, especially wrt required grfcodec version (planetmaker) @
21:10:58  <Lakie> Rubidium: should I leave 83 as it is currentlly (broken)?
21:12:40  <Rubidium> broken in what sense?
21:13:09  <Rubidium> IMHO there is no 83 (parent random bits) at the moment
21:13:32  <Rubidium> will only happen when towns do get them, which isn't entirely unthinkable
21:13:42  <Lakie> Heh, leave it as that then
21:14:46  <Brot6> AI: gelignAIte - Revision 4:543f3676a634: Fixed buses not being build when trams are present. (gelignite) @
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21:37:40  <DJNekkid> Ammler: it is actually explained in an episode of "Enterprise", but i cannot recall witch one atm
21:38:20  <DJNekkid> witch reminds me, i think it involves Deep Space K-7 as well... *gonna check*
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21:49:31  <Ammler> yes, Worf does tell
21:49:40  <Ammler> iirc, long ago :-)
22:37:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: would that help you to like the redmine wiki:
22:37:34  <Webster> Title: Redmine Wiki CSS - Wiki - Home of Code (at
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23:10:40  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Membership #2024 (New): Applying for project: North American Road Vehicle Set (oberhuemer) @
23:21:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/narvs not registered in Redmine: Failed with 422 Unprocessable Entity
23:21:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/narvs created
23:23:31  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Membership #2024 (Resolved): Applying for project: North American Road Vehicle Set (oberhuemer) @
23:23:31  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Membership #2024 (Resolved): Applying for project: North American Road Vehicle Set (Ammler) @

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