Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 15th January 2011:
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00:11:22  <Brot6> Backup test: abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
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07:44:15  <Brot6> nml: compile of r1132 still failed (#2167) -
07:45:22  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1132:4ce8148c1b7e: Fix: NewObject animation triggers is a word-si... (planetmaker) @
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08:05:00  <Brot6> nml: compile of r1133 still failed (#2167) -
08:05:33  <planetmaker> ^ still obs broken...
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08:44:37  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1133:6f01dd35ff1b: Doc: Callbacks for NewObjects (planetmaker) @
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09:36:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability (Voyager1) @
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09:44:00  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability (Terkhen) @
09:44:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability (planetmaker) @
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12:33:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability (DJNekkid) @
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12:43:18  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2162: SJ V4 (Voyager1) @
12:50:19  <Brot6> nml: compile of r1134 still failed (#2167) -
13:09:13  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: compile of r21 still failed (#2169) -
13:10:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 21:f5432b5bfe1a: Feature: Wind powerplant as NewObject (planetmaker) @
13:12:11  <Terkhen> nice :)
13:20:35  <Ammler> nml has newobject support :-o
13:26:10  <planetmaker> Ammler: for months actually :-)
13:27:14  <planetmaker> but no-one tested it, so I found two bugs when trying to get it into the game ;-)
13:28:55  <planetmaker> <-- screenshot
13:28:56  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - OpenGFX+ Landscape (at
13:30:29  <Ammler> also nice, if you commit now, we got realtime test, when obs api is working again
13:30:50  <planetmaker> well. it does not :-(
13:31:15  <Ammler> yeah, obviously
13:32:18  <planetmaker> well. Finally I got the wind powerplant :-) I wanted it ingame for a long time ;-)
13:32:37  <planetmaker> and with animation, of course
13:33:09  <planetmaker> one thing bugs me, though: I cannot change the purchase price as a function of where it is build. If build on water I'd like to make it 10x as expensive
13:37:11  <Ammler> you need to pay for objects?
13:37:28  <planetmaker> yes
13:37:35  <planetmaker> if the grf author wants
13:37:43  <planetmaker> I want the player to pay for powerplants
13:37:54  <Ammler> and the company is the owner?
13:38:03  <planetmaker> of the object? yes
13:40:29  <Ammler> does the windfarm change direction?
13:40:31  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: compile of r22 still failed (#2169) -
13:40:40  <planetmaker> it doesn't change direction
13:40:47  <planetmaker> just the blades rotate
13:41:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 22:8cb28c02da98: Fix: Credits of wind power plant also go in parts ... (planetmaker) @
13:41:21  <Ammler> ok, but they made different direction sprites, afarik
13:41:34  <planetmaker> uhm?
13:44:06  <Ammler> is the suboptimal transition from grass to sand caused by the nogrid spries?
13:44:41  <planetmaker> in what way sub-optimal?
13:45:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1134:d147d9890170: Fix: Some not so obvious braces were missing w... (planetmaker) @
13:45:09  <Ammler> ugly
13:45:31  <planetmaker> it's not different from default. except removed grid lines
13:45:52  <planetmaker> I see not where it is ugly
13:46:28  <Ammler> there is almost no transition
13:46:39  <planetmaker> eh?
13:48:59  <Ammler> mäh, un-flag is going to win
13:49:35  <planetmaker> good
13:49:40  <Ammler> is that the same flag, openttd uses for "every language"?
13:49:50  <planetmaker> the same symbol, yes
13:49:59  <planetmaker> and that's why it is good :-)
13:50:01  <Ammler> I voted for no flag
13:50:09  <planetmaker> I know. And I voted for UN ;-)
13:50:44  <Ammler> un flag is indeed so wrong as some already mentioned
13:51:01  <planetmaker> it is the only right thing as already argued
13:51:13  <planetmaker> and now?
13:51:23  <planetmaker> that's what the vote is for ;-)
13:51:38  <Ammler> why should un flag indicated future vehicle?
13:52:02  <planetmaker> it's a vehicle which is at home everywhere in the world
13:52:08  <planetmaker> And that's what the flags indicate
13:52:16  <Ammler> :-)
13:52:47  <Ammler> un is political, openttd should not do such things
13:52:59  <planetmaker> UN is hardly political
13:53:11  <planetmaker> unless you consider the choice of language 'political'
13:53:27  <Ammler> un does decide which country is "bad" which is "good"
13:53:34  <planetmaker> and UN is the best representation of 'every country' there is
13:54:39  <planetmaker> before you argue against the UN flag, you first would need to argue against all flags which represent a language already.
13:54:41  <planetmaker> good luck
13:55:02  <Ammler> why should I?
13:55:13  <Ammler> which other language flag is bad?
13:55:16  <planetmaker> or heritage. Or you need to argue consistent, and then you need to vote for the UN flag to represent a vehicle which can be home everywhere
13:55:28  <planetmaker> Ammler: every. They are political. Much more than the UN flag
13:56:03  <Ammler> Deutschland does represent German, that is not political, imo
13:56:12  <planetmaker> lol
13:56:20  <planetmaker> but UN is?
13:56:20  <Ammler> :-D
13:56:30  <Ammler> un does select good and bad countries
13:56:35  <Ammler> that is quite much political
13:56:58  <planetmaker> so does your governemtn. So does the German, so does every governemet
13:57:13  <planetmaker> It's the governments behind the individual flags which decide on 'good' and 'bad'.
13:57:49  <Ammler> Deutschland is always German, also in the time with Hitler
13:57:54  <planetmaker> and, btw: the UN does not decide on 'good' and 'bad'
13:58:50  <planetmaker> It may decide with the majority of ALL member states (which is really ALL countries in the world, except taiwan, vatican, west sahara and maybe one, two others ALL) which actions are not tolerable
13:59:10  <planetmaker> yes, also Switzerland ;-)
14:01:00  <Ammler> yeah, maybe I think about it different, because we aren't that long member
14:01:21  <planetmaker> but you wanted to tell me where the desert transition is ugly...
14:01:35  <Ammler> I would say, the US does tell the UN, which country it needs to define good, which bad
14:01:57  <planetmaker> you may say so. Doesn't make it true, though
14:02:43  <planetmaker> because Russia and China have exactly the same influence
14:04:00  <Ammler> not sure about russia, china is quite much accepted by usa
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14:28:19  <Brot6> fish: compile of r524 still failed (#2168) -
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14:44:23  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 521:aa1957fa466b: Change: setup offsets for Paddle Steamer (andythenorth) @
14:44:23  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 522:205bf6d4ae3f: Feature: wake / bow wash for Paddle Steamer (andythenorth) @
14:44:23  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 523:4fc562affdbe: Cleanup: remove some unneeded defines that were causing a build... (andythenorth) @
14:44:23  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 524:b86a4e3537b6: Feature: include Paddle Steamer in FISH (andythenorth) @
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15:50:52  * DanMacK waves
15:51:52  * planetmaker waves back
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15:58:16  <Terkhen> hi DanMacK
16:14:18  <DanMacK> How goes it?
16:19:39  * planetmaker discovers NewObjects
16:30:15  <planetmaker> <-- Yexo or Hirundo: is there already a way to write a sprite layout with parameters? The NML source seems to hint at it, but I can't neither find anywhere an example nor did I manage to deduce the syntax from the NML source?
16:36:21  <Yexo> I think it was planned but not yet implemented
16:36:41  <Yexo> but Hirundo did most work on spritelayouts, so he'll probably know better
16:38:19  <planetmaker> hm, ok, thanks
16:38:52  <Hirundo> I'll have to dig in the source to see exactly how far I got and document that properly in docs/..
16:40:57  <planetmaker> I'm faced with the task to provide a newObject which just uses the existing ground type. Which is about... 2*32 cases just for that, but the slope is a continuous sprite number, so it would be nice to be able to just add to the first sprite number the tile_slope result and use that in the layout
16:41:19  <planetmaker> hm 32 might be too much. But sufficient
16:42:14  <planetmaker> 19
16:45:52  <Hirundo> are slope sprites organised nicely enough for 'sprite = base_sprite + tile_slope' to work?
16:46:16  <frosch123> not for steep slopes
16:46:40  <frosch123> not sure about flat tiles either
16:50:08  <planetmaker> it worked for the first 5 entries, so I assumed the rest
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16:59:52  <Doorslammer> Good ideas for programs #879: an app that looks through Bananas, looks through your downloaded NewGRFs and deletes the old chaff
16:59:52  <Brot6> Doorslammer: #879 is "Example NewGRF Project - Bug #879: distclean: don't clean md5sums in tarball - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
17:00:06  <Doorslammer> I've done a bad thing there
17:00:18  <Doorslammer> Fecking IRC, I dunno...
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17:13:54  <Hirundo_web> planetmaker: <- this is the slope->sprite conversion table used by openttd
17:15:12  <planetmaker> he
17:17:24  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r718), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r10), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1627), fish (ERROR r524), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r818), heqs (r567), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6),
17:17:24  <Brot6> metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (ERROR r1134), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (ERROR r22), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r593), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:17:45  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2176 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
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17:44:50  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - Revision 1:b53ad9a7a02e: Feature: Pm36-2 "Piękna Helena" ("Beautiful Helena") (BarthVader) @
17:44:50  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - Revision 2:ce0d534a33e9: Added compiled grf (BarthVader) @
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18:13:47  <Ammler> :'-(
18:14:21  <Ammler> why is .grf not in the hook?
18:15:18  <Ammler> added
18:19:29  <planetmaker> he :-)
18:19:45  <planetmaker> that was indeed a very bad commit
18:20:34  <Ammler> last time, a noob pushed a grf
18:21:11  <planetmaker> :-)
18:22:01  <Terkhen> :)
18:22:17  <planetmaker> is Makefile.local also (still) in that hook?
18:22:46  <planetmaker> I still don't know how I could in case of need circumvent the hook...
18:23:11  <Ammler> bad-endings = .pyc .pyo .bak .log .orig .rej .patch ~ .grf
18:23:13  <Ammler> bad-names = makefile.local makefile.dep .renum .directory .ds_store thumbs.db
18:24:03  <planetmaker> is that case insensitive?
18:24:04  <Ammler> afaik it is docuemtned in the .devzone wiki
18:24:23  <Ammler> oh, you were able to commit a makefile.local?
18:24:27  <planetmaker> because the filename is .DS_Store
18:24:53  <planetmaker> Ammler: well. yes. no. I had the repo locally and was at r10 or so. Hard to undo ;-)
18:25:15  <planetmaker> I think I bugged you that I could just push the repo and then fixed that
18:25:22  <Ammler> so your question about case sensistive is answered :-P
18:25:27  <planetmaker> hu?
18:25:30  <planetmaker> no
18:25:35  <Ammler> Makefile.local
18:25:39  <planetmaker> ah
18:25:48  <planetmaker> :-) indeed
18:41:34  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability (Voyager1) @
18:43:30  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 273:770eb149a3a1: Change: extend .hgignore with build files (Ammler) @
18:43:30  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 274:ff87975d764e: Change: allow push .grf to this repo (Ammler) @
18:44:35  <Ammler> planetmaker: check this commit ^
18:47:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2177 (New): SW1200 (Voyager1) @
18:59:47  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r21811 still failed (#2069) -
19:00:27  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r21811 still failed (#2171) -
19:01:15  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21811 still failed (#2080) -
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19:05:19  <planetmaker> interesting, Ammler - care to add to the newgrf makefile repo?
19:07:03  <DanMacK> WB Andy
19:07:07  <Ammler> what would you like to add there?
19:07:49  <planetmaker> your commit, so that it gets clear how to change it, if needed. But with default settings
19:08:00  <Ammler> maybe a target "make" or "make dz.hook"
19:10:30  <Ammler> we could indeed add it to the makefile framework directly
19:17:26  <Ammler> but if we add it, we should add it with the message filter enabled too
19:29:33  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: do you know if action14 support bit-settings, (1-2-4-8-etc)
19:29:53  <DJNekkid> and if i set it to, for example, 3, the values of both 1 and 2 would show?
19:35:08  <Ammler> DJNekkid: it does
19:35:22  <Ammler> oh, you didn't ask me
19:35:33  * andythenorth wishes there was some easy way to composite sprites :P
19:37:34  <DJNekkid> Ammler: i guess i didnt, but thanx :)
19:39:24  <DJNekkid> do you know if i have 3 different values, say: 1 - Steam | 2 - Diesel | 4 - Electric ... And if the user sets it to 7, then it would say "Steam Diesel Electric" in the gui ?
19:40:01  <Ammler> DJNekkid: the gui for bitswitches are the red/green dots
19:40:08  <DJNekkid> andythenorth: i guess photoshow or some kind of layering is your best solution :)
19:40:18  <Ammler> there are a lot grfs around with those
19:40:22  <DJNekkid> in an horizontal line?
19:40:38  <Ammler> e.g
19:40:57  <andythenorth> photoshop means a lot of copy-paste :(
19:40:59  <andythenorth> ho hum
19:40:59  <DJNekkid> or vertically underneeth eachother?
19:41:32  <Ammler> DJNekkid: does it matter :-P
19:42:53  <planetmaker> the usual way as boolean settings are shown
19:44:45  <DJNekkid> yes, it matters a little bit look at #2175 ... And i dont want the grf-setting list to be multiple pages long...
19:44:45  <Brot6> DJNekkid: yes: #2175 is "2cc train set - Feature #2175: Parameter for train type availability - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
19:45:28  <planetmaker> why does it matter?
19:45:30  <Ammler> still better as using complicated number calculation
19:45:46  <DJNekkid> but now im off to a party... perhaps some kind of parameter multiply thingy... :) tty 2morrow :)
19:46:05  <planetmaker> oh oh. Don't force the user to make calculations
19:46:08  <DJNekkid> it matters because if the grf-setting gui is multiple pages long, it probably wont be used :)
19:46:10  <DJNekkid> i wont :)
19:47:03  <Ammler> nobody cares about you :-P
19:47:53  <Ammler> but I prefer clicking those dots, insead calculating the number to get same result
19:48:28  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: then don't give the user page-long boolean choices
19:48:45  <planetmaker> make and an either-or-list and use a one-of-multiple setting
20:20:32  <Brot6> fish: compile of r525 still failed (#2168) -
20:23:48  <Brot6> fish: compile of r526 still failed (#2168) -
20:23:59  <andythenorth> :o
20:24:24  <andythenorth> Ammler: what have I broken?
20:29:22  <Ammler> nothing
20:29:44  <Ammler> the obs api is still not working
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20:44:54  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 525:6d8a774d66e2: Change: use png for Log Rafts (andythenorth) @
20:44:54  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 526:1795a2ff12e7: Cleanup: remove pcx file for log raft (andythenorth) @
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22:56:34  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2178 (New): MAV Class 377 (Voyager1) @
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