Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 22nd January 2011:
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00:00:10  <Ammler> did you push a tag?
00:00:18  <DJNekkid> yes
00:00:20  <Ammler> I guess, the push hook is broken :'-(
00:00:23  <DJNekkid> but hmm ...
00:00:32  <DJNekkid> i dont see the update here yet
00:01:01  <Ammler> Project nutracks not enabled for releases
00:01:02  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 156:cf041d13dcb5: Add: Adjustable speedlimits on the different classes of tracks (DJNekkid) @
00:01:02  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 157:c6f56ab88e08: Added tag 1.0.0, Beta1 for changeset cf041d13dcb5 (DJNekkid) @
00:01:31  <Ammler> touch .devzone/build/releases/enable
00:01:44  <GT> but pulling from ofgx may give some trouble, cause I changed the default makefiles for bundiling 32bpp stuff
00:02:06  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you seriously have made a Tag called "1.0.0, Beta1" ?
00:02:23  <DJNekkid> i didnt add the comma
00:02:31  <GT> anyway, I am more and more inclined to make the 32bpp stuff a real baseset
00:02:36  <Ammler> GT, a cleanup on the 32bpp site might not hurt
00:02:43  <GT> explain
00:03:11  <Ammler> you fork opengfx and keep that structure and have the 32bpp in new tree
00:04:28  <DJNekkid> i guess i need a new tag as well?
00:04:33  <Ammler> why?
00:04:48  <Ammler> oh, your ugly tag name, yes
00:05:11  <DJNekkid> lol, i were thinking that r158 would be the enabling of autobuild
00:05:23  <Ammler> please don't use any other chars than alphanumberic and maybe . and -
00:05:25  <GT> maybe the best would be to keep the 32bpp-extra grf, and the pngs apart. That way the grf could be a branch, or even included in ofgx for non zoom user, and the sprite pack would be a separate download
00:05:43  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2191 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
00:06:34  <DJNekkid> i guess thats better then :)
00:07:00  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 158:47f60588191b: Add: autobuild releases (DJNekkid) @
00:07:00  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 159:ade0f40fdc4d: Added tag 1.0.0-Beta1 for changeset 47f60588191b (DJNekkid) @
00:07:21  <Brot6> nutracks: update from  to 1.0.0-Beta1 done (1 errors) -
00:09:58  <Ammler> GT, the problem is that per default someone does clone/pull everything
00:10:15  <Ammler> so also if we would make it a own branch, you would still download it
00:10:30  <Ammler> that way it is better to fork it, that is imo same easy
00:10:52  <Ammler> you simply pull changes from opengfx before you work
00:11:04  <Ammler> the merge is easy
00:11:44  <Ammler> and since we splitted opengfx in a lot files
00:12:06  <Ammler> I guess, making the 32bpp-extra file is stright forward
00:13:29  <Ammler> does bananas support 32bpp grfs?
00:13:34  <Ammler> guess not
00:14:02  <GT> I dont know, never uploaded 32bpp stuff there
00:14:42  <GT> but what do you mean with fork, I know tag, and branch, but does hg also offer fork?
00:15:27  <Ammler> well, I mean a branch in a new repo
00:15:58  <Ammler> hg clone opengfx 32bppgfx
00:17:41  <GT> Well, in that case it would probably be best to move the grf stuff to the ogfx branch, and leave the 32bpp png in two bundles, one for default trunk zooms, and one for the extra zoom stuff
00:17:51  <Ammler> then you patch Makefile.config and a bit to create the 32bpp stuff
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00:18:24  <Ammler> yes, why not
00:19:12  <Ammler> there was also some talk with nml for 32bpp, no idea, how far that is now
00:19:25  <Ammler> might still be just in planning/discussiong phase
00:19:27  <GT> or even put not any pngs on the openttdcoop server, but leave it on Jupix repo
00:20:31  <GT> afaik, nml now supports png, but only 8bpp, Yexo, correct me if Im wrong
00:20:48  <Ammler> png is supported since ever
00:21:04  <Ammler> I mean png encoding for the 32bpp sprites
00:21:54  <Ammler> to have that storred in the png only is quite ogly
00:22:03  <Ammler> u*
00:22:25  <Ammler> some like ben robbing use batch files
00:23:21  <GT> yeah, I know, I created the batch file for him
00:23:32  <Ammler> ok :-)
00:24:20  <Ammler> would the current 32bpp-extra.nfo fit this files already:
00:24:21  <GT> but having a definition file apart from the png certainly does sound more clean
00:24:26  <DJNekkid> grfcoded only support 8bpp sprites, thats for sure
00:24:35  <Yexo> GT: no, nml also supports extra-zoom pngs IIRC
00:24:45  <Yexo> not sure about the exact syntax though, I'll check that
00:24:57  <Ammler> Yexo: already implemented?
00:24:59  <Ammler> :-o
00:25:02  <Yexo> but for those to work you need to also have 8bpp sprites
00:25:24  <GT> iirc, we discussed the size, if it was 0, 0, the size of the png would be take
00:25:57  <Ammler> then it might actually make sense to convert to nml :-)
00:26:07  <GT> 8bpp is no problem I think, ogfx is present
00:26:15  <Ammler> but ogfx is still nfo
00:27:58  <GT> yes, but the graphics are available
00:28:35  <Ammler> ah, you mean for the requirement of nml, yes
00:28:53  <GT> to be used in a 32bpp set, where they will be overwritten anyway, unless the user has a 8bit blitter
00:29:15  <Ammler> another reason to fork ogfx
00:29:32  <Ammler> I mean to make a complete 32bpp base set
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00:33:06  <GT> Certainly  something to investigate, though I dont know how nml handles the normal and extra zoom sprites
00:33:47  <GT> But that is because I dont know the nml specs in detail, I will have to dive into that, I guess
00:34:41  <Ammler>
00:34:53  <Ammler> but I guess 32bpp is not documented yet
00:36:31  <Yexo> <- it's not documented indeed
00:36:43  <Yexo> small example nml script with 32bpp
00:39:10  <Ammler> if we would use nml, we not need to care about the sprite numbers anymore
00:39:35  <Yexo> for a baseset you'll always have to care about sprite numbers, there is no way around that
00:39:38  <GT> ok, 32bpp vs 8bpp is one issue, but how to handle 32bpp normal vs 32bpp extra zoom (currently 32bpp is already often mixed up with extra zoom)?
00:40:08  <Yexo> see my example, you can have multiple alternative_sprite blocks for the same sprite with a different zoom level
00:40:08  <Ammler> Yexo: why?
00:40:23  <Ammler> but your png doesn't have number
00:40:26  <GT> for the spritenumbers we already have 32bpp-extra, because for 32bpp the spritenumbers are already very important
00:40:31  <DJNekkid>
00:40:32  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - NuTracks - Release Thread :) (at
00:40:38  <Yexo> Ammler: see the "1024" in the replace block? that's a sprite number
00:41:22  <Ammler> yes, and where else do you need to set that number?
00:41:30  <Yexo> ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL <- for normal zoom 32bpp pngs
00:42:03  <Yexo> Ammler: because the "replace" block is actually an actionA (which needs a sprite number)
00:42:04  <Ammler> or where do you have "such numbers" in the extra grf?
00:42:11  <Yexo> nml can't magically determine which sprite to replace
00:42:13  <Ammler> Yexo: obviously
00:42:30  <Yexo> oh, sorry, you asked "where else", I read that wrong
00:42:37  <Yexo> just in that one place
00:43:14  <Ammler> yeah, for that part, you already care in opengfx too
00:43:32  <Yexo> indeed :)
00:43:40  <GT> ok, if i understand correctly ZOOM_LEVEL_Z1 and Z2 would already be there?
00:43:55  <Yexo> ie given my example the file 32bpp_graph_sprite.png is renamed to "sprites/4_z1.png"
00:43:58  <Yexo> GT: yes
00:44:34  <Yexo> valid constants are ZOOM_LEVEL_Z0, ZOOM_LEVEL_Z1, ZOOM_LEVEL_Z2 and ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL (where ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL == ZOOM_LEVEL_Z2)
00:44:54  <Ammler> does nml support base set grfs?
00:44:57  <GT> Cool, I already though NML was a nice project, but it is getting better and betta
00:44:59  <Ammler> I mean without ActionA?
00:45:17  <Yexo> currently not, but in the future it will
00:45:44  <Yexo> the problem of the base set grfs is that they have no structure, it's just a bunch of real sprites
00:45:48  <Ammler> DJNekkid: cratulation :-)
00:45:51  <Yexo> and recolor sprites are not yet supported
00:47:32  <Yexo> GT: the [-8, -8] are (totally made up here) offsets for the sprite, you don't need pngcodec anymore
00:51:47  <Ammler> oh, recolor would be needed if you make a full base set
00:52:28  <GT> recolour sprites are a total PITA for 32bpp anyway. But dumping pngcodec will developing 32bpp pngs,I'm not too sure about, pngcodec a sprite and test ingame is pretty fast. Using nml would mean users would probably have to have python and make and some other stuff maybe, limiting the audience
00:53:11  <Ammler> Yexo: how hard is it to make runtime tool?
00:53:18  <Ammler> I mean nmlc wihtout python?
00:53:30  <Yexo> no idea, I haven't tried it
00:54:06  <Yexo> I know there are several python2exe programs available, but I don't know how well they handle modules like ply and pil
00:54:47  <Ammler> I just lately supported someone installing nmlc on windows, it is indeed still a pain to get ply/pil and then nmlc working
00:55:53  <Ammler> is here no easy_install for windows?
00:55:58  <Ammler> or how that is called again
00:56:12  <Yexo> no idea
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00:57:00  <GT> Does nml decode the 32bpp graphics in the grf file?
00:57:24  <Yexo> you can't have 32bpp graphics in a grf file
00:57:44  <Ammler> GT it basically just encodes the offsets and renames
00:58:12  <Ammler> oh, and cropping, if you use a spritesheet
00:58:39  <GT> so, extra zoomed 8bpp pngs are supported, but 32bpp is not?
00:58:51  <Ammler> he?
00:59:03  <Yexo> extra-zoom 8bpp is totally unsupported
00:59:17  <Yexo> grfs can only contain 8bpp paletted images
00:59:40  <Yexo> doesn't matter whether it was originally pcx or png, it must be 8bpp paletted
00:59:44  <GT> what does ZOOM_LEVEL_Z1 mean then
00:59:44  <Ammler> you still "can/should" make a tar self
01:00:32  <Yexo> for extra zoom sprites nml expects a RGBA sprite, it'll crop it (if specified), and create a new png file with encoded offsets
01:01:12  <Ammler> to folder with same name as the file
01:01:37  <Ammler> like you do already 32bpp sprites, what did you expect?
01:01:45  <Yexo> I believe currently to a folder named "sprites/", but there is a parameter that can change that
01:03:27  <Ammler> would that work with openttd?
01:03:47  <Ammler> I thought, it needs a folder with same name as the grf
01:04:30  <Yexo> guess you're right
01:12:55  <GT> OK, Im understanding it better every minute,I think. Grf files will only contain nfo data like always, and 8bpp graphics data. Nml will take care of  encoding the nfo data and 8bpp data, plus it will take care of renumbering and pngcodecing the png files into separete png files?
01:13:09  <Yexo> exactly :)
01:13:43  <Yexo> which has the advantage you can insert extra sprites in your grf file without having to manually renumber all your png files
01:14:48  <Yexo> it has the disadvantage that if you just want to change the offsets of a single sprite nml will still recode the entire grf and rewrite all png files
01:23:34  <GT> Ok,thanks for the info. I will have to think about the roadmap for 32bpp extra a bit. Moving to ofgx may be a first step, converting to nml and 32bpp sprite a possible next one, but then we also have normal zoom users, and extra zoom users, and we may want to server them both. Anyway, it's about bedtime for me, will see you later
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04:31:22  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - r9.grf (BarthVader) @
04:45:14  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - Revision 9:63673f1d7a27: Feature: wagons now replace the original ones (BarthVader) @
05:33:07  <Brot6> Bundles Update: gd906bb60 2011-01-22 cargodist   (
07:44:51  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 530:c99e95f48434: Change: action 1/2/3 templates for hydrofoils (andythenorth) @
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08:45:01  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 531:8c51af840fc0: Change: remove some unneeded defines & includes for hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
09:04:55  <andythenorth> :o
09:04:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
09:05:01  <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:fish_build andy$ make mrproper
09:05:02  <andythenorth> Makefile.dep:2: *** missing separator.  Stop.
09:05:19  <andythenorth> delete the dep file I guess
09:05:56  <andythenorth> must have been some local filesystem weirdness
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09:44:52  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 532:cc3a069ede4f: Change: graphics for hydrofoil depend on speed (andythenorth) @
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10:39:52  <frosch123> DJNekkid: if you use a14 INFO->PARA->id->MASK, then you do not have to display "Placeheld for future use" in the GUI and can have holes in the parameters nevertheless
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11:52:47  <DJNekkid> frosch123: thanx :D I'll look into that. There is a reason i made a beta before the 'proper' release :) I Also found another small bug so the metroset wont work with the 2cc set (one of the action6's had a wrong number)
11:54:50  <DJNekkid> btw, is there a way to set a postfix after the numbers in the action14 as well? (so i can have km/h behind the normal numbesr)
11:55:56  <planetmaker> How did you get the numbers there?
11:56:40  <frosch123> no postfix possible, only pure integers, or pure strings
12:00:51  <Yexo> if the number of different values is small you can set a string for each value
12:01:26  <Yexo> "120 km/h" for 120, "130 km/h" for 130 etc., but that's a lot of work if a lot of values are valid
12:02:52  <Ammler> Rubidium: any idea, why 32bpp-ez didn't build
12:30:25  <DJNekkid> Yexo: i guess i just need to make a long list then. Could probably add inn mph as well... Is it 1.68 that is the internal factor from kmh to mph?
12:38:29  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2192 (New): Gravita 10BB (Voyager1) @
12:39:10  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: not quite. It's more complicated ;-)
12:39:43  <planetmaker> internally km/h-ish is used where v*1.6 = mph
12:40:18  <planetmaker> I'm not sure about the conversion from km/h-ish to km/h in the display
12:41:40  <Rubidium> Ammler: I think it kinda messed up when your server was down? It was still in a running state
12:41:51  <Rubidium> from a few weeks ago
12:44:23  <Rubidium> it should try again tomorrow night
12:46:30  <DJNekkid> 1,6 seems to fit quite nice
12:46:44  <DJNekkid> atleast kmh/1,6=mph
12:46:53  <DJNekkid> as 177 becomes 110
12:47:12  <DJNekkid> and iirc does the SH40 drive both 177kmh and 110mph :)
12:48:07  <Rubidium> km/h / 1.6 != mph, km-ish/h / 1.6 = mph, and km-ish/h != km/h by a small factor
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12:51:56  <DJNekkid> clouse enough i guess. lets see how it turns out.
12:55:18  <DJNekkid> with km/1,6 200 is 125
12:55:27  <DJNekkid> so its not more then +-1 of both ways
12:56:22  <Rubidium> the further from 0 the bigger the km-ish/h - km/h becomes
12:56:33  <Rubidium> it's like 0.5% or something like that
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13:13:35  <DJNekkid> iirc its something like 5 0/00
13:13:50  <DJNekkid> i think i had to set the 1000kmh chimaera to 1005kmh in the action0
13:18:22  <DJNekkid> and ... ehm ... 0.5% is 5 0/00's ... *doh*
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13:51:43  <Brot6> nutracks: update from 1.0.0-Beta1 to 1.0.0-Beta2 done (1 errors) -
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14:44:32  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 160:3fa29c70c6f0: Fix: bug with the 2cc-set loaded (DJNekkid) @
14:44:32  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 161:9bec9c6c7176: Added tag 1.0.0-Beta2 for changeset 3fa29c70c6f0 (DJNekkid) @
14:49:23  <Ammler> :'-(
14:49:44  <planetmaker> hm?
14:49:58  <Ammler> the hook still doesn't work
14:50:06  <planetmaker> oh :-(
14:50:08  <Ammler> you see that if something is announced at .44
14:50:58  <Ammler>  the strange thing is that the building worked
14:51:11  <Ammler> which is triggered by the same hook :-)
15:29:29  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 75:84bd5a27e33b: Fix: put compilefarm.diff in series file again, for ... (GeekToo) @
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17:03:26  <DanMacK> Hey all
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17:10:48  -MtlGuard- add me on
17:10:48  <MtlGuard> add me on
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17:18:09  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2193 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
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17:18:43  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r152 to r162 done (1 errors) -
17:18:51  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r720), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1627), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r567), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs
17:18:51  <Brot6> (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (r1138), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r22), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r593), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:07  <planetmaker> @op
17:19:07  *** Webster sets mode: +o planetmaker
17:19:07  *** ChanServ sets mode: +nt 
17:19:08  *** planetmaker sets mode: +b *!*@
17:19:11  <planetmaker> @deop
17:19:11  *** Webster sets mode: -o planetmaker
17:19:15  <SmatZ> :)
17:19:21  <SmatZ> I just wanted to do the same
17:19:30  <planetmaker> :-)
17:21:06  <V453000> someone amazing? :)
17:21:12  <SmatZ> spammer
17:21:55  <V453000> oh :)
17:40:58  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2194 (New): OBB 1161 (Voyager1) @
17:45:13  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 162:7dfa0d8cd9f3: Fix: metroset high speed tracks had wrong parameter to set ... (DJNekkid) @
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19:00:54  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Bug #2195 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
19:03:32  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:04:33  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21891 still failed (#2080) -
20:37:13  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Bug #2195 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
20:37:13  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 76:36b68f7ca1d0: Codechange: update to trunk r21891, trunk commit 218... (GeekToo) @
20:37:13  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 77:bcce79e2c631: Added tag r21891 for changeset 36b68f7ca1d0 (GeekToo) @
20:37:14  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Bug #2195 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (GeekToo) @
20:38:47  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r21891 still failed (#1693) -
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20:46:48  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r21891 still failed (#1693) -
20:53:03  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20861 to r21891 done -
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