Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 23rd January 2011:
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02:04:19  <Brot6> Bundles Update: r21891 2011-01-23 32bpp-ez   (
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05:32:59  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g2ad8cb24 2011-01-23 cargodist   (
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09:30:20  -steven28t- my friend's music group
09:30:20  <steven28t> my friend's music group
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09:30:26  <Webster> Title: FuJTif sur Ré (at
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10:29:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2196 (New): Engineering and Farm Supplies over reporting del... (OwenP) @
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11:45:37  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2197 (New): Le Belge (Voyager1) @
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14:00:53  <DJNekkid> good morning :D
14:02:27  <frosch123> you are on a visit at belugas' place?
14:02:30  <frosch123> :p
14:06:43  <Ammler> frosch123: morning is when someone get up :-)
14:07:25  <V453000> planetmaker: the nutracks very low speed rail is swedish rails, right? :)
14:07:52  <V453000> just because I tried it with total bridge renewal set and due to some reason it works with it perfectly :)
14:10:19  <planetmaker> no idea
14:10:39  <planetmaker> I didn't look at it recently
14:10:50  <Ammler> don't you need to load both sets?
14:11:03  <V453000> it will be on stable shortly :)
14:11:12  <planetmaker> ser won't currently work well with nutracks
14:11:24  <planetmaker> djn changed all labels, thus they're incompatible
14:11:26  <V453000> I dont want them together
14:11:43  <V453000> I am just wondering if nutracks are using SER sprites for some rails
14:11:47  <Ammler> oh, ser graphics seems to be included in nutracks
14:11:49  <V453000> because they are damn similar :)
14:11:51  <V453000> yes
14:11:59  <Ammler> according to the release changelog
14:12:17  <V453000> and they work very nicely with the bridges, where ser do work with bridges, but it isnt very visible :)
14:12:40  <Ammler> yeah, we need a bridge set without tracks :-)
14:13:28  <V453000> well, yes, but total bridge renewal set does work with nutracks
14:13:46  <V453000> swedish rails change it somehow, but almost insignificantly
14:16:19  <Ammler>  V453000 you mean nutracks works better with ttbs as ser?
14:16:26  <V453000> yes
14:20:48  <DJNekkid> V453000: yes, the VLS tracks is sweed rails
14:21:31  <V453000> :)
15:08:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2196 (Feedback): Engineering and Farm Supplies over reportin... (OwenP) @
15:08:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2196 (Feedback): Engineering and Farm Supplies over reportin... (andythenorth) @
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15:44:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1628:35594b68136d: Fix: explicitly handle production cbs... (andythenorth) @
15:44:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1629:c8b64b8c01d4: Fix: explicitly handle production cbs... (andythenorth) @
15:44:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1630:d9c7de782aeb: Fix: wrong number of ranges set in pr... (andythenorth) @
15:44:59  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1631:fb504e2fc808: Fix: explicitly handle production cbs... (andythenorth) @
15:46:45  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2196: Engineering and Farm Supplies over reporting delivery (OwenP) @
15:49:42  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #1876 (Closed): Building r116 and r117 failed. (DJNekkid) @
15:49:42  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2176 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (DJNekkid) @
15:49:42  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2188 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (DJNekkid) @
15:49:42  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2191 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (DJNekkid) @
15:49:44  <Brot6> Nutracks - Feature #972 (Closed): disable "track type enabler vehicles" by parameter (DJNekkid) @
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16:42:18  <V453000> DJNekkid: is it possible to make the nutracks as diverse as they used to be? I mean, the first tracks very cheap, and the very high speed tracks super expensive?
16:56:07  <DJNekkid> V453000: isnt they that now??
16:56:20  <V453000> they used to be far more expensive
16:56:35  <V453000> or ... the differences seemed much more significant to me
16:57:10  <V453000> I remember that when I played with it, I never had too much money thanks to the costs of better rails
16:57:51  <V453000> very high speed rail did cost about 50k pounds per tile iirc
16:58:03  <V453000> which is good imo :) nobody can start a company and have fast trains right away
17:00:07  <DJNekkid> nah
17:00:15  <DJNekkid> the 'unlimited' rails were 10k
17:00:31  <DJNekkid> uninfladed pounds per tile
17:00:42  <V453000> right :)
17:00:47  <V453000> but they arent now :p
17:00:54  <DJNekkid> 7k iirc
17:01:13  <DJNekkid> in the first versins were all prices more a 'feel'
17:01:18  <DJNekkid> now its more math'ish
17:01:56  <V453000> 1181 per tile :(
17:02:07  <DJNekkid> the unlimted speed ones?
17:02:09  <V453000> yes
17:02:29  <V453000> well, either it was math or fell, I really like it and it was quite defining nutracks imo :)
17:02:47  <DJNekkid> eel!
17:02:49  <DJNekkid> k
17:02:51  <DJNekkid> eeek!
17:03:09  <DJNekkid> it is supposed to be higher then this
17:03:41  <V453000> :)
17:04:53  <DJNekkid> now this is wierd!
17:05:39  <DJNekkid> im bound to say its a bug in openttd, but im not 100% sure yet
17:06:04  <DJNekkid>
17:06:12  <DJNekkid> that is how the prices is SUPPOSED to be
17:06:36  <DJNekkid> and when i tested a couple of weeks ago they were so
17:06:45  <DJNekkid> and i heavent touched the prices sinse that
17:07:28  <DJNekkid> but it _might_ be a wrong basecost
17:07:45  <V453000> no crossings for faster rails ? :(
17:08:10  <DJNekkid> no
17:08:18  <DJNekkid> not for 230 and higher
17:08:37  <V453000> why :(
17:08:49  <DJNekkid> unsafe :)
17:09:29  <Ammler> lol
17:09:58  <V453000> umm
17:10:12  <V453000> only dumb people send RVs over rails anyway
17:10:25  <V453000> and crossings are good for penalties for trains
17:11:30  <DJNekkid> use 'reverse' pbs
17:12:07  <DJNekkid> btw
17:12:16  <V453000> yes, that is for larger penalty :)
17:12:22  <V453000> and that violates the signal block
17:13:13  <V453000> which could be solved just by bypassing the PBS with another dummy rail, but that requires space that is not there sometimes :)
17:13:17  <Ammler> V453000: maybe that could be bugreported
17:13:41  <V453000> should 2way PBS not violate the block?
17:13:48  <V453000> I think when it does it is fine
17:13:51  <Ammler> I wonder why?
17:14:01  <V453000> well, yes, but it is ok when it does :) nothing bad
17:15:22  <Ammler> hmm
17:15:42  <Ammler> you just said, it violates the block, so that is bad, isn't?
17:15:53  <V453000> well
17:16:09  <V453000> it could be used better if it didnt
17:16:25  <V453000> but I am not sure if it should stay that way or not
17:16:44  <Ammler> well, find a situation, where that is useable
17:17:05  <Yexo> the fact you could use it doesn't mean it should be supported by openttd
17:17:14  <Ammler> maybe it is not a bug, but there are also feature requests possible ;-)
17:17:19  <Yexo> what you effectively want in those cases is some configurable penalty for the rail
17:17:37  <Yexo> it doesn't have anything to do with signals
17:18:08  <Ammler> Yexo: why does a pbs terminate a block, that is not logical to me
17:18:42  <Yexo> so a rail network with only pbs signals should be one giant block?
17:19:18  <Brot6> firs: update from r1627 to r1631 done -
17:19:24  <Ammler> would it hurt?
17:19:36  <DJNekkid> hmm
17:19:37  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r720), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), fish (ERROR r532), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r567), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56),
17:19:37  <Brot6> narvs (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (r1138), nutracks (r162), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r22), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r593), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:50  <DJNekkid> it seems like nutracks skips the cost parameter
17:19:55  <Ammler> I didn't say, it is wrong, I just wonder, if there is a situation, where terminating a block is useable
17:20:01  <DJNekkid> so it bydefault runs at quarter prices
17:20:15  <V453000> well, networks with only 2way PBS are just stupid :)
17:20:44  <V453000> DJNekkid: I didnt use any cost parameter :)
17:20:58  <DJNekkid> i know...
17:21:10  <DJNekkid> aha, i know it
17:21:26  <DJNekkid> the problem was, the cost parameter used to be parameter 2, but is now parameter 1
17:21:28  <Ammler> DJNekkid: afaik, nutracks doesn't build without error on compiler
17:21:59  <DJNekkid> and i didnt update the cost selector
17:22:08  <V453000> oh
17:22:09  <DJNekkid> Ammler: no errors, just a warning
17:22:39  <Ammler> the compiler doesn't ditinguish between those
17:22:57  <Ammler> or in other workds, warning = error, error = crash/abort
17:23:23  <DJNekkid> and that is because i didnt use a sprite, namely the depot sprites... But i guess i should remove that anyway, since Rubidium (iirc) added that depot is selected from the station property
17:27:48  <Yexo> Ammler: yes, all signals being in one giant block would have an enormous impact on performance
17:29:07  <Ammler> on a pbs only map, you don't have blocks, do you?
17:29:44  <DJNekkid> oki, beta3 is now added
17:29:51  <Ammler> wouldn't you need a block signal?
17:30:39  <Brot6> nutracks: update from 1.0.0-Beta2 to 1.0.0-Beta3 done -
17:31:37  <Ammler> :'-(
17:31:48  <Ammler> what the hell is broken?
17:33:06  <Ammler> maybe a nice idea would be to be able to customize the penalty of single WP
17:36:12  <Yexo> you always have signals blocks
17:36:40  <Yexo> signal blocks are separated by any type of signal, not only block signals
17:36:45  <DJNekkid> V453000: download beta3 and see :D Now things should work as intended
17:40:31  <Ammler> why does it build releases but not push the changes to redmine anymore?
17:41:04  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 163:526d276d671d: Fix: the economy parameter is now checked correctly (DJNekkid) @
17:41:04  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 164:0e4a74bb119e: Fix: Remove the last remaining warning (DJNekkid) @
17:41:04  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 165:9af522c980a0: Added tag 1.0.0-Beta3 for changeset 0e4a74bb119e (DJNekkid) @
17:41:56  <V453000> DJNekkid: thank you :)
17:42:42  <DJNekkid> it is on banans
17:43:41  <V453000> 4500 per tile of very high speed track :) still half but better
17:44:19  <V453000> hmm I might have wrong currency :D
17:44:33  <DJNekkid> should be 7000£
17:45:00  <V453000> I have pounds :o
17:45:33  <DJNekkid> and it is 7000?
17:46:21  <V453000> 4500
17:46:39  <DJNekkid> did you start a new game??
17:46:51  <DJNekkid> or, do you have "low" construction costs?
17:46:51  <V453000> yes
17:47:05  <V453000> and now I loaded one and there I have 8 k :o gimme a sec to investigate
17:47:20  <V453000> there the construction costs are high
17:47:31  <DJNekkid> in the difficulty optons
17:48:18  <V453000> yes
17:48:26  <V453000> 4500 with low, 8000 with high
17:48:54  <DJNekkid> should be 7000 on normal
17:50:17  <V453000> riight
17:51:57  <V453000> yes, got that too :)
17:52:57  <V453000> nice :)
17:55:09  <V453000> with higher costs overall it is much more significant when you need the track upgrade :)
17:55:37  <V453000> because the very low speed tracks are quite cheap :)
18:02:25  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2198 (New): GWR Class 5700 (Voyager1) @
18:43:53  <DJNekkid> so, all in all the costs are nice now+
18:43:54  <DJNekkid> ?
18:53:10  <V453000> yes, I think so :)
18:53:20  <V453000> I will do some more extensive testing of course, but so far it seems to be very nice
19:02:37  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from h4c3bec28 to r21905 done -
19:05:19  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:06:19  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21905 still failed (#2080) -
19:34:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2199 (New): 9P (Voyager1) @
21:03:56  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2200 (New): Milwaukee Road ES-2 (Voyager1) @
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