Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 5th February 2011:
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00:10:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: of course they can, I was just wondering because the svn is down
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08:04:22  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (Purno) @
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09:29:24  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (Voyager1) @
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11:09:08  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 1:b60da7ac1603: Working on air network (krinn) @
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11:56:28  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2246 (New): ONCFM ZAB1000 (Voyager1) @
11:58:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1696:a9efa4ee2c18: Add: graphics file for early lime kiln (andythenorth) @
11:58:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1697:42513e571ce6: Change: update changelog preparatory ... (andythenorth) @
11:59:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1698:5b127f8329a6: Change: something changed in forge ps... (andythenorth) @
11:59:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1699:9fa160261673: Change: work in progress on improved ... (andythenorth) @
12:01:18  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2244: CP 0100 (Voyager1) @
12:02:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2241: FS ALe 840 (Voyager1) @
12:02:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2240: DB ET85 (Voyager1) @
12:04:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2233: OHE 520 GDT (Voyager1) @
12:04:53  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2230: FS 86 (Voyager1) @
12:05:55  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2223: NOLB 1 (Voyager1) @
12:07:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2213: NS DH1 (Voyager1) @
12:25:44  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 607:b23d5337a67c: Add #2107 #2109: New sprites for the Darwin300 and the Bakew... (planetmaker) @
12:30:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1700:7fe48e5c8ab0: Change: attribute small office buildi... (andythenorth) @
12:30:50  <andythenorth> 1.7k :)
12:32:04  <V453000> :)
12:36:46  <Hirundo> Yexo: w.r.t. above highlight, IMO, that should work for vehicles as well
12:37:14  <Hirundo> There are a lot of cases where a spritegroup is simply boilerplate
13:05:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (New): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @
13:06:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (New): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @
13:08:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2248 (New): Update cargo colours (as used in graphs) (andythenorth) @
13:14:10  <V453000> :D
13:37:47  <planetmaker> V453000: <-- do bauxite mines and farm supply trains still have glowing cargo? You could test with
13:38:09  <planetmaker> I somehow suspect that it was an openttd palette conversion error
13:38:22  <planetmaker> and has nothing to do with OpenGFX+Trains ;-)
13:38:25  <V453000> :)
13:41:46  <V453000> I just opened it with the PS nightly ... it is glowing ... shall I update newgrfs?
13:42:18  <planetmaker> no, that was done with 0.2.1, that's still current. Can you maybe make me a screenshot that I know which wagon type to look exactly for?
13:42:28  <planetmaker> which base set do you use? TTD windows or TTD dos?
13:42:44  <V453000> windows
13:43:23  <planetmaker> I don't see what you describe, so you have to put my nose directly onto it I fear
13:45:22  <planetmaker> if it is still present with a somewhat recent nightly it's in the newgrf, though
13:45:50  <V453000>
13:46:17  <V453000> barely visible
13:46:36  <planetmaker> add it to the issue :-P - that's why I gave the link :-P
13:46:39  <planetmaker> hm...
13:46:46  <V453000> wait
13:46:54  <V453000> it is much better than it used to be
13:46:59  <V453000> but it has about 3 pixels glowing
13:47:13  <V453000> I will make a detailed zoom in later ;)
13:51:01  <planetmaker> it'll really be helpful. I've been staring at it for minutes without anything
13:51:28  <planetmaker> just attach it to the issue please
13:51:43  <andythenorth> there are two pixels
13:51:49  <andythenorth> they'll be using the fire cycle
13:52:00  <andythenorth> it happens a lot with those brown colours
13:52:19  <andythenorth> right hand end of the wagon?
13:56:18  <planetmaker> hm... maybe.
13:59:33  <planetmaker> hm, yes, I see now.
13:59:43  <planetmaker> It helps tremendously to switch on full animation
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14:10:57  <planetmaker> so, nvm, V453000 I found it :-)
14:15:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 202:e5fa93500de0: Doc: A few more comments on the general structure (planetmaker) @
14:15:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 203:72b270009726: Change #1958: Bauxite should not use animated colours (planetmaker) @
14:36:28  <V453000> :)
14:45:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 204:19e8dfb073ed: Change #1958: Vehicles, Farm and engineering supply ... (planetmaker) @
14:51:11  <planetmaker> I still wonder which stone wagons you refer to... possibly the 1st generation, not the new
14:59:19  <V453000> probably, yes ... if I remember correctly it happened in tropic, but I dont know which rail type
14:59:20  <planetmaker> hm... V453000 I think you have to show me the wagon change for the stone wagons. I don't find it.
14:59:33  <planetmaker> tropic? FIRS?
14:59:45  <V453000> yes
15:03:24  <planetmaker> I still don't follow that.
15:09:48  <planetmaker> so a savegame with a hint where to see that would be nice, V453000 :-)
15:27:34  <V453000> pm:
15:27:56  <planetmaker> can you give me the savegame please?
15:27:58  <V453000> normal hopper wagons, they just change once they have any cargo
15:28:01  <V453000> sure I can, sec.
15:28:03  <planetmaker> (attach it to the issue)
15:28:18  <planetmaker> but so it's monorail...
15:28:38  <V453000> I just randomly tested
15:28:43  <V453000> might be also rail and maglev
15:28:46  <V453000> ... I will test first
15:35:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1958: Bauxite and stone wagon bug (firs (V453000) @
15:35:04  <V453000> ^
15:35:11  <V453000> pm:
15:39:14  <planetmaker> ah. Thanks. It seems that bug is already fixed :-D
15:39:29  <planetmaker> without me noticing it ;-)
15:39:48  <V453000> :D
15:39:49  <V453000> ok
15:40:01  <V453000> could you now come to PS and announce building stage please ? :P
15:41:03  <planetmaker> why don't you? ;-)
15:44:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1958 (Closed): Bauxite and stone wagon bug (firs (planetmaker) @
15:56:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1701:6a4ab87dd802: Change: work in progess on Lime Kiln ... (andythenorth) @
15:56:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1702:f80cb45c459a: Change: (translations) add strings fo... (andythenorth) @
15:56:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1703:5d216dccda15: Feature: Alcohol cargo (andythenorth) @
15:56:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1704:3fae55cf0cad: Feature: adjust a lot of cargo colour... (andythenorth) @
15:57:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1705:e44f426de4fb: Change: set cargo payment rate for Al... (andythenorth) @
16:08:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (Closed): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @
16:08:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1706:fa862fa1ed05: Feature: Brewery produces Alcohol not... (andythenorth) @
16:08:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1707:d5a628697f08: Feature: Store accepts Alcohol (and n... (andythenorth) @
16:08:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (Closed): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @
16:09:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (New): Sugar Refinery should produce Alcoho... (andythenorth) @
16:16:29  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (Closed): Sugar Refinery should produce Alc... (andythenorth) @
16:16:29  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1708:40b25519f20d: Feature: Sugar Refinery produces Alco... (andythenorth) @
16:16:29  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (Closed): Sugar Refinery should produce Alc... (andythenorth) @
16:23:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2248 (Closed): Update cargo colours (as used in graphs) (andythenorth) @
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16:45:48  <DJNekkid> hi again peeps :D
16:59:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 608:24ff4a4bef24: Fix (r607): Update the credits as well (planetmaker) @
17:09:07  <Brot6> nml: update from r1162 to r1166 done -
17:18:29  <Brot6> firs: update from r1695 to r1708 done -
17:19:04  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r201 to r204 done (43 errors) -
17:20:12  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r606 to r608 done -
17:20:20  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r736), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r71), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), fish (r567), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs
17:20:20  <Brot6> (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (r1166), nutracks (r176), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r23), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:24:01  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus, belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-rv (1 errors), spanishtowns, swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns
17:35:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1709:31b98cc05f33: Add: graphics file for Iron Works (andythenorth) @
17:35:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1710:b1be67937c10: Feature: graphics for Iron Works (Dan... (andythenorth) @
17:52:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1711:d9501d222901: Change: add animated 'pig' castings t... (andythenorth) @
18:02:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker: was there an automated conversion of pcx->png for OpenGFX ?
18:03:22  <planetmaker> somewhat yes. Rubidium did that, probably by means of a nice short imagemagick script
18:04:27  <planetmaker>
18:04:28  <Webster> Title: ImageMagick: Command-line Tools: Convert (at
18:05:36  <andythenorth> thanks
18:05:40  <andythenorth> I can do that with photoshop :)
18:05:55  <andythenorth> I have an action that does png-pcx already
18:05:59  <andythenorth> now I just reverse it
18:06:15  <planetmaker> well then for all your projects ;-)
18:15:38  <Ammler> you don't need to bulk convert, afaik you can do also mix pngs and pcxs
18:15:53  <DJNekkid> what the crap was my tt-forums username/password... lol
18:16:45  <Ammler> so just make new sprites pngs :-)
18:18:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2250 (New): TCDD E8000 (Voyager1) @
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18:35:31  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it was irfanview
18:35:43  <planetmaker> aye :-)
18:35:58  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: are you able to reset/change my tt-forums password?
18:36:02  <planetmaker> no
18:36:11  <DJNekkid> only owen?
18:36:11  <planetmaker> at least I don't think so...
18:36:14  <planetmaker> let's see
18:36:22  <Ammler> everyone can do that himself
18:36:26  <DJNekkid> username is iirc 'DJ Nekkid'
18:36:27  <planetmaker> I think only global mods
18:36:43  <DJNekkid> Ammler: <DJNekkid> what the crap was my tt-forums username/password... lol
18:37:07  <Ammler> DJNekkid: your username is the name on your threads
18:37:24  <DJNekkid> i know :D
18:37:33  <Ammler> so what is your issue?
18:37:41  <DJNekkid> neither of my 6 passwords willwork :)
18:37:46  <Ammler> then reset it
18:37:56  <planetmaker> ^ :-)
18:38:04  <DJNekkid> it also complains about unknown mail-addy :)
18:38:11  <planetmaker> lol
18:38:39  <Ammler> well, then only OwenS might help you :-)
18:38:49  <Ammler> orudge: I meant :-P
18:38:52  <planetmaker> I doubt that
18:38:54  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
18:38:54  <DJNekkid> probably uncompatible with linux (i installed suse on an 500gb usb-drive my father gave me for xmas)
18:39:35  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: it looks like you didn't register an e-mail (or hid it, then only orudge can see it)
18:39:50  <DJNekkid> might be :)
18:40:14  <DJNekkid> but i might be able to reboot to windows and change it there...
18:40:19  <DJNekkid> browser remember etc
18:40:30  <planetmaker> haha :-)
18:40:51  <DJNekkid> or can i download some 'simple' app, and it can boot it from linux?
18:41:25  <Ammler> [19:38] <DJNekkid> probably uncompatible with linux (i installed suse on an 500gb usb-drive my father gave me for xmas) <-- what is incompatible?
18:41:50  <DJNekkid> Ammler: that was a joke :)
18:41:50  <planetmaker> tt-forums with linux, of course! ;-)
18:42:05  <DJNekkid> and yes, tt-forums with linux :)
18:42:21  <Ammler> yeah, tt-forums is "optimized" for windows :-)
18:42:41  <planetmaker> best viewed with IE 4.0 or higher :-P
18:42:46  <DJNekkid> well, brb on windows to change my tt-forums pw :)
18:57:24  <planetmaker> hm, nice. ImageMagick 6.6.x allows to use -remap argument with a filename. And then it converts the input file(s) to the same palette as the argument of remap
19:03:21  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21965 to r21983 done (2 errors) -
19:06:09  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:06:49  <andythenorth> Ammler: the png question was so that DanMac K can open FIRS sprites ;)
19:06:53  <andythenorth> he can't open pcx
19:07:10  <andythenorth> FWIW, I have been converting HEQS and FISH as I work on them
19:07:40  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21983 still failed (#2080) -
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19:10:31  * DanMacK can open PCX, just not on this PC :P
19:11:29  <Hirundo> Yexo: present?
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19:58:48  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 80:f01122091b8d: Change: annotations not needed (dih) @
19:59:42  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 81:90847145cebc: Add: methods to find plugins / commands based on their names a... (dih) @
19:59:42  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 82:008aa0519a37: Add: method to check if a Plugin as a Command registered with ... (dih) @
20:04:31  <dihedral> i want a present too :-P
20:05:14  * planetmaker gives dihedral a cookie
20:05:21  <dihedral> YAY :-)
20:06:32  <dihedral> heh - joan has more than double the amount of code grapes has :-P
20:09:02  <dihedral> but grapes has more classes :-D
21:05:19  * Lakie sighs
21:05:44  <Lakie> "It's just an extension of how 40+x vars work, which you already use." ;_;
21:14:13  <dihedral> \o/ callable commands :-)
21:17:29  * planetmaker hugs Lakie :-)
21:17:58  <planetmaker> I understand you... and it's amazing how far he gets with obviously this kind of basic understanding
21:18:30  <Lakie> I know
21:18:40  <Lakie> 'tis a little upsetting though,
21:18:45  <planetmaker> yep
21:19:44  * Lakie shall wait a while until he has the heart to explain.
21:20:43  * Lakie ponders if the wiki lacks a proper tutorial or if his object tutorial doesn't explain it clearly enough
21:20:44  <planetmaker> I didn't quite read his lengthy code snippet. Though it seems nicely commented
21:20:57  <planetmaker> Where's your object tutorial?
21:21:08  <Lakie> Copy of it in spam bin, pinned
21:21:21  <Lakie> Though I doubt I explain it at length
21:21:25  <planetmaker> but... do others see that? I doubt it
21:21:34  <planetmaker> Only mods have access to the spam bin
21:21:49  <Lakie> Na, was never fully finished, pm'd him a copy
21:21:55  <planetmaker> ah ok :-)
21:22:05  <planetmaker> well, IMHO you should 'just' wiki-fy it.
21:22:28  <planetmaker> postings in the forum get lost, are hard to update. Wikis are easier there
21:22:34  <Lakie> Maybe once its decided where the wikis are going to be? :)
21:22:37  <planetmaker> and easier to expand :-)
21:22:41  <Lakie> True
21:22:43  <planetmaker> But yes, I'd wait for so long
21:23:24  <dihedral> what's that about?
21:23:39  <planetmaker> the newgrf wiki has a lot of unfinished tutorials which just state good intentions of what should be there... but actual nfo code is hard to come by - except by looking at andy's and DJN's projects
21:23:40  <Lakie> Though the impression I'm getting is only devs and known grf authors of standing would have access to alter the newgrf pages under the proposal
21:24:07  <Lakie> Well, mine includes no code, but it has been written
21:24:14  <planetmaker> Lakie: the specs itself, might be. Though I'm not sure it's needed, I'd start w/o protection
21:24:19  * Lakie has most samples in both nfo and nml
21:24:42  <planetmaker> after all the current wiki is not protected either.
21:24:49  <Lakie> Thats true
21:25:01  <Lakie> And has led to some odd things
21:25:18  <Lakie> Which is why I presume some devs want it locked
21:28:35  <planetmaker> the only thing protected is the toc
21:28:35  <planetmaker> which is actually annoying enough
21:29:43  <Lakie> Hehe
21:36:18  <Lakie> Ah well, should be interesting to see if the wiki's will be merged or the user system merged (which will likely be quite messy)?
21:36:49  <planetmaker> not necessarily. Two(?) years ago TB went for the trouble to do so with the different openttd services
21:37:01  <planetmaker> at least from my user POV it went quite ok
21:37:12  <Lakie> Hmm... well, I was thinking admins
21:37:16  <planetmaker> only the user bases here are MUCH larger
21:37:34  <Lakie> Yeah
21:37:45  <Lakie> Its more the process of matching names which worries me
21:38:42  <planetmaker> Hm... what worries me actually about what orudge writes is that he wants to employ a custom-written thing for it instead of a standard thing like ldap. That might make things not easier one way or another.
21:39:40  <Lakie> True, atleast something like ldap is maintained by a dev team?
21:39:42  <planetmaker> as it's used for all kind of things ... bugs, wiki, translators, bananas, ... basically *everything*, even my svn
21:40:02  <Lakie> Custom in-house software would have to be maintained purely by Owen which could be troublesome
21:40:26  <Rubidium> oh, our LDAP is only 15% of the forums' size
21:40:34  <planetmaker> I assume that ldap is well maintained as it's - afaik - one of the most common solutions for such
21:41:17  <Lakie> Hehe
21:41:29  <planetmaker> the power of a single sign-on (and IMHO we should consider to make it available for the DevZone, too, Ammler ;-) ) is that it's less of a barrier for users to do something they haven't done before
21:41:34  <Lakie> Well, would the forums size be too large for a managable ldap solution?
21:41:41  <planetmaker> Like edit a wiki page, report a bug, translate,...
21:41:53  <Lakie> Heh
21:41:55  <planetmaker> Lakie: I bet, not
21:42:19  <Lakie> Maybe suggest it in the thread as an alterative?
21:42:38  <Lakie> Actually, I think someone did..
21:43:30  <Rubidium> I fear we must end with multiple LDAPs that share some information
21:43:59  <Rubidium> especially when the devzone is integrated as well
21:44:32  <Lakie> Possibly, to be honest I'm not really sure how it'd all work, and I still think there may be headaches in merging user data
21:44:33  <planetmaker> why, Rubidium ?
21:44:41  <planetmaker> Rights management?
21:44:46  <Rubidium> as I wouldn't fancy the devzone's admins to be able to change passwords/permissions of those that may log in on the openttd server via ssh
21:45:14  <planetmaker> sure, fair enough
21:45:27  <planetmaker> I wonder whether such solutions exist and if so how they look like
21:45:35  <Lakie> Messy?
21:45:47  <Rubidium> also I would like to be able to login when tt-forums is down (or the connection is down)
21:46:21  <planetmaker> hehe, quite
21:52:19  <planetmaker> so it needs basically 3 ldaps
21:52:23  <planetmaker> or similar
21:52:28  <michi_cc> OpenID would be the common thing to use when user databases shouldn't be shared directly.
21:53:12  <michi_cc> I think there's an OpenID provider for LDAP and maybe Redmine has support for logging in already.
21:53:45  <Rubidium> OpenID seems to be a support hassle
21:53:56  <Rubidium> s/seems/is said/
21:54:41  <planetmaker> Redmine has OpenID support, yes. Admittedly I never got the hang of it
22:00:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1712:f4c51997595c: Change: add iron pigs to Iron Works g... (andythenorth) @
22:00:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1713:94837beb2e84: Change: work in progress on Lime Kiln (andythenorth) @
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22:32:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2011 (Closed): Change forge -> Ironworks + Blacksmith (andythenorth) @
22:47:13  <Ammler> good evening :-)
22:47:27  <Ammler> redmine, wiki, wordpress have openid support
22:48:16  <orudge> [21:38:39] <planetmaker> Hm... what worries me actually about what orudge writes is that he wants to employ a custom-written thing for it instead of a standard thing like ldap. That might make things not easier one way or another. <-- the problem is basically that tt-forums already has a database of some 25,000 or so users, and while phpBB does have a certain amount of support for
22:48:22  <orudge> LDAP, it is very minimal (auth only) and integrating it with the existing forums DB would be pretty difficult
22:48:41  <orudge> a custom shared authentication thing would actually be very straightforward and simple, and really shouldn't be a problem
22:48:48  <orudge> the SSO thing is a bit more complex, but we don't have to use that
22:48:51  <Ammler> but I woldn't know, how well svn/hg/git support for openid is
22:49:48  <orudge> I have looked into a few "off-the-shelf" solutions
22:50:40  <Ammler> If I would setup sso, I would use ldap with gosa
22:50:41  <planetmaker> well, the single sign-on would from my POV the biggest advantage.
22:50:56  <orudge> things like OpenID and SAML, but they're really very complex for what we want, or so it seems to me
22:51:11  <orudge> but, well
22:51:21  <orudge> part of the point of that thread was so that we can figure out what we want to do, if anything, and can work it out
22:51:30  <planetmaker> But as Rubidium says: it probably would need *something* where the sign-on systems sync between tt-forums and openttd and possibly here
22:51:39  <orudge> well
22:52:24  <Ammler> orudge: custom things are quite hard to use from redmine/wikimedia/wordpress
22:52:39  <orudge> Ammler: these things all have authentication plug-in support, though, don't they?
22:52:42  <orudge> MediaWiki does at least
22:53:00  <planetmaker> well. But do you want to write one for each?
22:53:09  <Ammler> as pm says
22:53:14  <orudge> well
22:53:27  <Ammler> then I would rather like to use openid
22:53:41  <orudge> the idea is that there is a single library which can then be easily called from each plug-in, it does something like "user_auth($username, $password)", and that's all there is to it
22:53:45  <orudge> theoretically, anyway
22:55:17  <planetmaker> you know this: ?
22:55:18  <Webster> Title: phpBB View topic - [ABD] Apache/Kerberos single sign-on with LDAP/AD connection (at
22:56:46  <orudge> OpenID can be look into in more detail, I guess; some sort of LDAP solution might be an alternative, but throughout this whole process, the assumption has basically been that the forum database will remain as the main database - actually having the forums use an external auth provider too might be a lot more work.
22:56:53  <planetmaker> and in any case: it needs independent sign-ons which just sync. And then the same method is much easier as e.g. for ldap sync solutions seem to exist (though I might err)
22:56:54  <orudge> I've not seen that specific thing, no
22:57:09  <orudge> hmm, well
22:57:14  <orudge> I just wonder if that might cause more confusion amongst users
22:57:24  <orudge> ie, still having the concept of different accounts on each site
22:57:31  <orudge> (but being able to use them on all of them)
22:57:37  <orudge> as opposed to having a single "tycoon" login
22:57:45  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 83:19c40e845088: Add: AccessType to determin Private and Public chatter (dih) @
22:57:45  <Brot6> Java OpenTTD Admin Library - Revision 73:641c1a7fa306: Add: delegation methods (dih) @
22:57:49  <orudge> anyway
22:58:36  <orudge> worth investigating more
22:58:38  <orudge> but for now I must go :)
22:59:05  <planetmaker> well, from my POV the advantage of this endeavour mostly is to get the NewGRF wiki finally integrated properly. Having a separate login for the openttd wiki than for the other openttd services IMHO is not the best thing to do, as it is easier for people to report bugs when they already have an account which they might have from the wiki
22:59:41  <orudge> well, the intention would be that the wiki, flyspray, and bananas would all switch to the new auth system
22:59:47  <orudge> but, as I say
22:59:51  <planetmaker> and yes, users are reluctant to register here and there - as such having the bug tracker use the same account would be very favourable
22:59:52  <orudge> we just need to work out how we're actually going to implement it
23:00:33  <planetmaker> orudge: that'd mean that we couldn't login to openttd anymore, should tt-forums be down - unless it's "just" syncing logins
23:00:55  <planetmaker> "openttd" as also commit or edit bugs
23:01:38  <planetmaker> but as you said - a solution first has to be found :-)
23:03:18  <orudge> planetmaker: well, that's true, but if you're going to have a properly centralised auth system, then that's unfortunately a downside, unless you're going to attempt to cache or sync the user data in some way. Obviously, the preference would be that the forums (or at least the forum DB) wouldn't be down anyway, and it mostly isn't ;)
23:03:24  <orudge> but yes
23:03:27  <orudge> shall look into things
23:03:32  <orudge> it's not going to be an overnight transition ;)
23:03:44  <orudge> and any suggestions are of course appreciated
23:03:46  <orudge> but for now, good night
23:03:53  <planetmaker> luckily over-night isn't needed either ;-)
23:03:53  <Lakie> Night Owen,
23:03:57  <planetmaker> good night orudge
23:06:23  <frosch123> why do ottd and forums actually need merging of users?
23:06:49  <frosch123> why not just use the forums users for the new wiki, and keep ottd stuff for bugs and bananas
23:09:43  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 2:8b937ca1deae: Invalidate order when order destination is not a valid stat... (krinn) @
23:09:43  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 3:d2eb41715919: Remove old and unuseful comments (krinn) @
23:09:43  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 4:5ea1f86a39d7: Change aircraft building with efficiency/best/chopper modele. (krinn) @
23:09:44  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 5:170b25d3ff0c: Now aircraft orders are changed when in the network, but st... (krinn) @
23:09:48  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 6:39951bea2f3f: Correct a bug when road depot isn't build but station is build (krinn) @
23:09:51  <Rubidium> wiki has anonymous in any case, so it might not be that hard to check against the tt-forums database *and* the OpenTTD ldap
23:09:54  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 7:1144ac582fbd: Enforce rules for aircraft: respect limit for network & air... (krinn) @
23:09:58  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 8:20205fccab7f: - Prevent building or maintenance on vehicle while upgrading (krinn) @
23:10:09  <Rubidium> after all, you can select multiple "domains" to log into
23:16:25  <Brot6> Grapes - Feature Request #1779 (Closed): String Tokenizer which handles Quoted text etc. (dih) @
23:21:07  <dihedral> unifying the login could become quite nasty - forums / openttd can be down at different times and neither have a High Availability setup
23:21:25  <dihedral> as soon as you start relying on the others login mechanism you'll have fun
23:21:37  <dihedral> i can see user complaints already :-D
23:22:38  <dihedral> of course you could go around clonding user data from one server to another server - then if the failing happens bewtween a password change form one user and the sync - at least you are only stuck with "my password does not work"
23:23:03  <dihedral> or of course if there should be a perring issue somewhere between openttd and tt-forums
23:23:31  <Ammler> I wouldn't care, if devzone is down when openttd is down :-)
23:24:10  <Brot6> Grapes - Code Review #1995 (Closed): IRC related extentions to be defined by Plugin (dih) @
23:24:25  <Ammler> you still have anonymous access
23:30:34  <dihedral> and if devzone is down for a few days? you expect users to not be able to login to openttd?
23:31:57  <dihedral> needing an old pw is not a problem, really. not being able to login to either of the thre pages due to another being down (possibly for a longer period of time) is
23:32:42  <dihedral> you could replicate locally, have all read access going to the local db for authentication, and send write access to the master server
23:33:02  <dihedral> that way, password changes would not be able to take place incase the master is down but at least people can sign in
23:33:33  <dihedral> with regards to WT and bugs. that would be kinda nasty :-P
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