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00:10:21 <Ammler> planetmaker: of course they can, I was just wondering because the svn is down 01:02:34 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** thgergo has quit IRC 02:27:38 *** Lakie has quit IRC 07:50:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:04:22 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (Purno) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2245#change-5712 09:05:26 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:29:24 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2245#change-5713 09:35:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:59:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:41:59 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:09:08 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 1:b60da7ac1603: Working on air network (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/b60da7ac1603 11:43:02 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:43:43 *** DanMacK has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:56:28 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2246 (New): ONCFM ZAB1000 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2246 11:58:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1696:a9efa4ee2c18: Add: graphics file for early lime kiln (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a9efa4ee2c18 11:58:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1697:42513e571ce6: Change: update changelog preparatory ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/42513e571ce6 11:59:38 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1698:5b127f8329a6: Change: something changed in forge ps... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5b127f8329a6 11:59:38 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1699:9fa160261673: Change: work in progress on improved ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9fa160261673 12:01:18 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2244: CP 0100 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2244#change-5715 12:02:59 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2241: FS ALe 840 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2241#change-5717 12:02:59 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2240: DB ET85 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2240#change-5719 12:04:03 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2233: OHE 520 GDT (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2233#change-5721 12:04:53 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2230: FS 86 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2230#change-5723 12:05:55 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2223: NOLB 1 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2223#change-5725 12:07:03 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2213: NS DH1 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2213#change-5727 12:25:44 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 607:b23d5337a67c: Add #2107 #2109: New sprites for the Darwin300 and the Bakew... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/b23d5337a67c 12:30:44 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1700:7fe48e5c8ab0: Change: attribute small office buildi... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/7fe48e5c8ab0 12:30:50 <andythenorth> 1.7k :) 12:32:04 <V453000> :) 12:36:46 <Hirundo> Yexo: w.r.t. above highlight, IMO, that should work for vehicles as well 12:37:14 <Hirundo> There are a lot of cases where a spritegroup is simply boilerplate 13:05:14 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (New): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2247 13:06:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (New): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2247 13:08:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2248 (New): Update cargo colours (as used in graphs) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2248 13:14:10 <V453000> :D 13:37:47 <planetmaker> V453000: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1958 <-- do bauxite mines and farm supply trains still have glowing cargo? You could test with http://stable.openttdcoop.org/stable/save/ogfx-trains-bug1958.sav 13:38:09 <planetmaker> I somehow suspect that it was an openttd palette conversion error 13:38:22 <planetmaker> and has nothing to do with OpenGFX+Trains ;-) 13:38:25 <V453000> :) 13:41:46 <V453000> I just opened it with the PS nightly ... it is glowing ... shall I update newgrfs? 13:42:18 <planetmaker> no, that was done with 0.2.1, that's still current. Can you maybe make me a screenshot that I know which wagon type to look exactly for? 13:42:28 <planetmaker> which base set do you use? TTD windows or TTD dos? 13:42:44 <V453000> windows 13:43:23 <planetmaker> I don't see what you describe, so you have to put my nose directly onto it I fear 13:45:22 <planetmaker> if it is still present with a somewhat recent nightly it's in the newgrf, though 13:45:50 <V453000> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/glowingwagon.png 13:46:17 <V453000> barely visible 13:46:36 <planetmaker> add it to the issue :-P - that's why I gave the link :-P 13:46:39 <planetmaker> hm... 13:46:46 <V453000> wait 13:46:54 <V453000> it is much better than it used to be 13:46:59 <V453000> but it has about 3 pixels glowing 13:47:13 <V453000> I will make a detailed zoom in later ;) 13:51:01 <planetmaker> it'll really be helpful. I've been staring at it for minutes without anything 13:51:28 <planetmaker> just attach it to the issue please 13:51:43 <andythenorth> there are two pixels 13:51:49 <andythenorth> they'll be using the fire cycle 13:52:00 <andythenorth> it happens a lot with those brown colours 13:52:19 <andythenorth> right hand end of the wagon? 13:56:18 <planetmaker> hm... maybe. 13:59:33 <planetmaker> hm, yes, I see now. 13:59:43 <planetmaker> It helps tremendously to switch on full animation 14:02:21 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:10:57 <planetmaker> so, nvm, V453000 I found it :-) 14:15:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 202:e5fa93500de0: Doc: A few more comments on the general structure (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/e5fa93500de0 14:15:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 203:72b270009726: Change #1958: Bauxite should not use animated colours (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/72b270009726 14:36:28 <V453000> :) 14:45:25 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 204:19e8dfb073ed: Change #1958: Vehicles, Farm and engineering supply ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/19e8dfb073ed 14:51:11 <planetmaker> I still wonder which stone wagons you refer to... possibly the 1st generation, not the new 14:59:19 <V453000> probably, yes ... if I remember correctly it happened in tropic, but I dont know which rail type 14:59:20 <planetmaker> hm... V453000 I think you have to show me the wagon change for the stone wagons. I don't find it. 14:59:33 <planetmaker> tropic? FIRS? 14:59:45 <V453000> yes 15:03:24 <planetmaker> I still don't follow that. 15:09:48 <planetmaker> so a savegame with a hint where to see that would be nice, V453000 :-) 15:27:34 <V453000> pm: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/stone.png 15:27:56 <planetmaker> can you give me the savegame please? 15:27:58 <V453000> normal hopper wagons, they just change once they have any cargo 15:28:01 <V453000> sure I can, sec. 15:28:03 <planetmaker> (attach it to the issue) 15:28:18 <planetmaker> but so it's monorail... 15:28:38 <V453000> I just randomly tested 15:28:43 <V453000> might be also rail and maglev 15:28:46 <V453000> ... I will test first 15:35:00 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1958: Bauxite and stone wagon bug (firs (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1958#change-5728 15:35:04 <V453000> ^ 15:35:11 <V453000> pm: 15:39:14 <planetmaker> ah. Thanks. It seems that bug is already fixed :-D 15:39:29 <planetmaker> without me noticing it ;-) 15:39:48 <V453000> :D 15:39:49 <V453000> ok 15:40:01 <V453000> could you now come to PS and announce building stage please ? :P 15:41:03 <planetmaker> why don't you? ;-) 15:44:36 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #1958 (Closed): Bauxite and stone wagon bug (firs (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1958#change-5730 15:56:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1701:6a4ab87dd802: Change: work in progess on Lime Kiln ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/6a4ab87dd802 15:56:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1702:f80cb45c459a: Change: (translations) add strings fo... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f80cb45c459a 15:56:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1703:5d216dccda15: Feature: Alcohol cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5d216dccda15 15:56:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1704:3fae55cf0cad: Feature: adjust a lot of cargo colour... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3fae55cf0cad 15:57:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1705:e44f426de4fb: Change: set cargo payment rate for Al... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/e44f426de4fb 16:08:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (Closed): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2247 16:08:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1706:fa862fa1ed05: Feature: Brewery produces Alcohol not... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/fa862fa1ed05 16:08:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1707:d5a628697f08: Feature: Store accepts Alcohol (and n... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d5a628697f08 16:08:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2247 (Closed): Add Alcohol cargo (label: BEER) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2247#change-5731 16:09:39 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (New): Sugar Refinery should produce Alcoho... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2249 16:16:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (Closed): Sugar Refinery should produce Alc... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2249 16:16:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1708:40b25519f20d: Feature: Sugar Refinery produces Alco... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/40b25519f20d 16:16:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2249 (Closed): Sugar Refinery should produce Alc... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2249#change-5732 16:23:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2248 (Closed): Update cargo colours (as used in graphs) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2248#change-5733 16:32:32 *** DanMacK has quit IRC 16:36:23 *** DanMacK has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:39:03 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:45:48 <DJNekkid> hi again peeps :D 16:59:28 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 608:24ff4a4bef24: Fix (r607): Update the credits as well (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/24ff4a4bef24 17:09:07 <Brot6> nml: update from r1162 to r1166 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1166 17:18:29 <Brot6> firs: update from r1695 to r1708 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1708 17:19:04 <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r201 to r204 done (43 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/r204 17:20:12 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r606 to r608 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r608 17:20:20 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r736), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r71), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), fish (r567), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs 17:20:20 <Brot6> (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (r1166), nutracks (r176), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r23), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671) 17:24:01 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus, belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-rv (1 errors), spanishtowns, swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns 17:35:36 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1709:31b98cc05f33: Add: graphics file for Iron Works (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/31b98cc05f33 17:35:36 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1710:b1be67937c10: Feature: graphics for Iron Works (Dan... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/b1be67937c10 17:52:25 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1711:d9501d222901: Change: add animated 'pig' castings t... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d9501d222901 18:02:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: was there an automated conversion of pcx->png for OpenGFX ? 18:03:22 <planetmaker> somewhat yes. Rubidium did that, probably by means of a nice short imagemagick script 18:04:27 <planetmaker> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/convert.php 18:04:28 <Webster> Title: ImageMagick: Command-line Tools: Convert (at www.imagemagick.org) 18:05:36 <andythenorth> thanks 18:05:40 <andythenorth> I can do that with photoshop :) 18:05:55 <andythenorth> I have an action that does png-pcx already 18:05:59 <andythenorth> now I just reverse it 18:06:15 <planetmaker> well then for all your projects ;-) 18:15:38 <Ammler> you don't need to bulk convert, afaik you can do also mix pngs and pcxs 18:15:53 <DJNekkid> what the crap was my tt-forums username/password... lol 18:16:45 <Ammler> so just make new sprites pngs :-) 18:18:05 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2250 (New): TCDD E8000 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2250 18:20:19 *** ODM has quit IRC 18:28:39 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:35:31 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it was irfanview 18:35:43 <planetmaker> aye :-) 18:35:58 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: are you able to reset/change my tt-forums password? 18:36:02 <planetmaker> no 18:36:11 <DJNekkid> only owen? 18:36:11 <planetmaker> at least I don't think so... 18:36:14 <planetmaker> let's see 18:36:22 <Ammler> everyone can do that himself 18:36:26 <DJNekkid> username is iirc 'DJ Nekkid' 18:36:27 <planetmaker> I think only global mods 18:36:43 <DJNekkid> Ammler: <DJNekkid> what the crap was my tt-forums username/password... lol 18:37:07 <Ammler> DJNekkid: your username is the name on your threads 18:37:24 <DJNekkid> i know :D 18:37:33 <Ammler> so what is your issue? 18:37:41 <DJNekkid> neither of my 6 passwords willwork :) 18:37:46 <Ammler> then reset it 18:37:56 <planetmaker> ^ :-) 18:38:04 <DJNekkid> it also complains about unknown mail-addy :) 18:38:11 <planetmaker> lol 18:38:39 <Ammler> well, then only OwenS might help you :-) 18:38:49 <Ammler> orudge: I meant :-P 18:38:52 <planetmaker> I doubt that 18:38:54 <planetmaker> yeah :-) 18:38:54 <DJNekkid> probably uncompatible with linux (i installed suse on an 500gb usb-drive my father gave me for xmas) 18:39:35 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: it looks like you didn't register an e-mail (or hid it, then only orudge can see it) 18:39:50 <DJNekkid> might be :) 18:40:14 <DJNekkid> but i might be able to reboot to windows and change it there... 18:40:19 <DJNekkid> browser remember etc 18:40:30 <planetmaker> haha :-) 18:40:51 <DJNekkid> or can i download some 'simple' app, and it can boot it from linux? 18:41:25 <Ammler> [19:38] <DJNekkid> probably uncompatible with linux (i installed suse on an 500gb usb-drive my father gave me for xmas) <-- what is incompatible? 18:41:50 <DJNekkid> Ammler: that was a joke :) 18:41:50 <planetmaker> tt-forums with linux, of course! ;-) 18:42:05 <DJNekkid> and yes, tt-forums with linux :) 18:42:21 <Ammler> yeah, tt-forums is "optimized" for windows :-) 18:42:41 <planetmaker> best viewed with IE 4.0 or higher :-P 18:42:46 <DJNekkid> well, brb on windows to change my tt-forums pw :) 18:57:24 <planetmaker> hm, nice. ImageMagick 6.6.x allows to use -remap argument with a filename. And then it converts the input file(s) to the same palette as the argument of remap 19:03:21 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21965 to r21983 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/r21983 19:06:09 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r21488 19:06:49 <andythenorth> Ammler: the png question was so that DanMac K can open FIRS sprites ;) 19:06:53 <andythenorth> he can't open pcx 19:07:10 <andythenorth> FWIW, I have been converting HEQS and FISH as I work on them 19:07:40 <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21983 still failed (#2080) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r21983 19:10:01 *** ODM has quit IRC 19:10:31 * DanMacK can open PCX, just not on this PC :P 19:11:29 <Hirundo> Yexo: present? 19:29:54 *** DanMacK has quit IRC 19:58:48 <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 80:f01122091b8d: Change: annotations not needed (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes/repository/revisions/f01122091b8d 19:59:42 <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 81:90847145cebc: Add: methods to find plugins / commands based on their names a... (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes/repository/revisions/90847145cebc 19:59:42 <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 82:008aa0519a37: Add: method to check if a Plugin as a Command registered with ... (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes/repository/revisions/008aa0519a37 20:04:31 <dihedral> i want a present too :-P 20:05:14 * planetmaker gives dihedral a cookie 20:05:21 <dihedral> YAY :-) 20:06:32 <dihedral> heh - joan has more than double the amount of code grapes has :-P 20:09:02 <dihedral> but grapes has more classes :-D 21:05:19 * Lakie sighs 21:05:44 <Lakie> "It's just an extension of how 40+x vars work, which you already use." ;_; 21:14:13 <dihedral> \o/ callable commands :-) 21:17:29 * planetmaker hugs Lakie :-) 21:17:58 <planetmaker> I understand you... and it's amazing how far he gets with obviously this kind of basic understanding 21:18:30 <Lakie> I know 21:18:40 <Lakie> 'tis a little upsetting though, 21:18:45 <planetmaker> yep 21:19:44 * Lakie shall wait a while until he has the heart to explain. 21:20:43 * Lakie ponders if the wiki lacks a proper tutorial or if his object tutorial doesn't explain it clearly enough 21:20:44 <planetmaker> I didn't quite read his lengthy code snippet. Though it seems nicely commented 21:20:57 <planetmaker> Where's your object tutorial? 21:21:08 <Lakie> Copy of it in spam bin, pinned 21:21:21 <Lakie> Though I doubt I explain it at length 21:21:25 <planetmaker> but... do others see that? I doubt it 21:21:34 <planetmaker> Only mods have access to the spam bin 21:21:49 <Lakie> Na, was never fully finished, pm'd him a copy 21:21:55 <planetmaker> ah ok :-) 21:22:05 <planetmaker> well, IMHO you should 'just' wiki-fy it. 21:22:28 <planetmaker> postings in the forum get lost, are hard to update. Wikis are easier there 21:22:34 <Lakie> Maybe once its decided where the wikis are going to be? :) 21:22:37 <planetmaker> and easier to expand :-) 21:22:41 <Lakie> True 21:22:43 <planetmaker> But yes, I'd wait for so long 21:23:24 <dihedral> what's that about? 21:23:39 <planetmaker> the newgrf wiki has a lot of unfinished tutorials which just state good intentions of what should be there... but actual nfo code is hard to come by - except by looking at andy's and DJN's projects 21:23:40 <Lakie> Though the impression I'm getting is only devs and known grf authors of standing would have access to alter the newgrf pages under the proposal 21:24:07 <Lakie> Well, mine includes no code, but it has been written 21:24:14 <planetmaker> Lakie: the specs itself, might be. Though I'm not sure it's needed, I'd start w/o protection 21:24:19 * Lakie has most samples in both nfo and nml 21:24:42 <planetmaker> after all the current wiki is not protected either. 21:24:49 <Lakie> Thats true 21:25:01 <Lakie> And has led to some odd things 21:25:18 <Lakie> Which is why I presume some devs want it locked 21:28:35 <planetmaker> the only thing protected is the toc 21:28:35 <planetmaker> which is actually annoying enough 21:29:43 <Lakie> Hehe 21:36:18 <Lakie> Ah well, should be interesting to see if the wiki's will be merged or the user system merged (which will likely be quite messy)? 21:36:49 <planetmaker> not necessarily. Two(?) years ago TB went for the trouble to do so with the different openttd services 21:37:01 <planetmaker> at least from my user POV it went quite ok 21:37:12 <Lakie> Hmm... well, I was thinking admins 21:37:16 <planetmaker> only the user bases here are MUCH larger 21:37:34 <Lakie> Yeah 21:37:45 <Lakie> Its more the process of matching names which worries me 21:38:42 <planetmaker> Hm... what worries me actually about what orudge writes is that he wants to employ a custom-written thing for it instead of a standard thing like ldap. That might make things not easier one way or another. 21:39:40 <Lakie> True, atleast something like ldap is maintained by a dev team? 21:39:42 <planetmaker> as it's used for all kind of things ... bugs, wiki, translators, bananas, ... basically *everything*, even my svn 21:40:02 <Lakie> Custom in-house software would have to be maintained purely by Owen which could be troublesome 21:40:26 <Rubidium> oh, our LDAP is only 15% of the forums' size 21:40:34 <planetmaker> I assume that ldap is well maintained as it's - afaik - one of the most common solutions for such 21:41:17 <Lakie> Hehe 21:41:29 <planetmaker> the power of a single sign-on (and IMHO we should consider to make it available for the DevZone, too, Ammler ;-) ) is that it's less of a barrier for users to do something they haven't done before 21:41:34 <Lakie> Well, would the forums size be too large for a managable ldap solution? 21:41:41 <planetmaker> Like edit a wiki page, report a bug, translate,... 21:41:53 <Lakie> Heh 21:41:55 <planetmaker> Lakie: I bet, not 21:42:19 <Lakie> Maybe suggest it in the thread as an alterative? 21:42:38 <Lakie> Actually, I think someone did.. 21:43:30 <Rubidium> I fear we must end with multiple LDAPs that share some information 21:43:59 <Rubidium> especially when the devzone is integrated as well 21:44:32 <Lakie> Possibly, to be honest I'm not really sure how it'd all work, and I still think there may be headaches in merging user data 21:44:33 <planetmaker> why, Rubidium ? 21:44:41 <planetmaker> Rights management? 21:44:46 <Rubidium> as I wouldn't fancy the devzone's admins to be able to change passwords/permissions of those that may log in on the openttd server via ssh 21:45:14 <planetmaker> sure, fair enough 21:45:27 <planetmaker> I wonder whether such solutions exist and if so how they look like 21:45:35 <Lakie> Messy? 21:45:47 <Rubidium> also I would like to be able to login when tt-forums is down (or the connection is down) 21:46:21 <planetmaker> hehe, quite 21:52:19 <planetmaker> so it needs basically 3 ldaps 21:52:23 <planetmaker> or similar 21:52:28 <michi_cc> OpenID would be the common thing to use when user databases shouldn't be shared directly. 21:53:12 <michi_cc> I think there's an OpenID provider for LDAP and maybe Redmine has support for logging in already. 21:53:45 <Rubidium> OpenID seems to be a support hassle 21:53:56 <Rubidium> s/seems/is said/ 21:54:41 <planetmaker> Redmine has OpenID support, yes. Admittedly I never got the hang of it 22:00:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1712:f4c51997595c: Change: add iron pigs to Iron Works g... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f4c51997595c 22:00:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1713:94837beb2e84: Change: work in progress on Lime Kiln (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/94837beb2e84 22:10:26 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:32:04 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2011 (Closed): Change forge -> Ironworks + Blacksmith (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2011#change-5734 22:47:13 <Ammler> good evening :-) 22:47:27 <Ammler> redmine, wiki, wordpress have openid support 22:48:16 <orudge> [21:38:39] <planetmaker> Hm... what worries me actually about what orudge writes is that he wants to employ a custom-written thing for it instead of a standard thing like ldap. That might make things not easier one way or another. <-- the problem is basically that tt-forums already has a database of some 25,000 or so users, and while phpBB does have a certain amount of support for 22:48:22 <orudge> LDAP, it is very minimal (auth only) and integrating it with the existing forums DB would be pretty difficult 22:48:41 <orudge> a custom shared authentication thing would actually be very straightforward and simple, and really shouldn't be a problem 22:48:48 <orudge> the SSO thing is a bit more complex, but we don't have to use that 22:48:51 <Ammler> but I woldn't know, how well svn/hg/git support for openid is 22:49:48 <orudge> I have looked into a few "off-the-shelf" solutions 22:50:40 <Ammler> If I would setup sso, I would use ldap with gosa 22:50:41 <planetmaker> well, the single sign-on would from my POV the biggest advantage. 22:50:56 <orudge> things like OpenID and SAML, but they're really very complex for what we want, or so it seems to me 22:51:11 <orudge> but, well 22:51:21 <orudge> part of the point of that thread was so that we can figure out what we want to do, if anything, and can work it out 22:51:30 <planetmaker> But as Rubidium says: it probably would need *something* where the sign-on systems sync between tt-forums and openttd and possibly here 22:51:39 <orudge> well 22:52:24 <Ammler> orudge: custom things are quite hard to use from redmine/wikimedia/wordpress 22:52:39 <orudge> Ammler: these things all have authentication plug-in support, though, don't they? 22:52:42 <orudge> MediaWiki does at least 22:53:00 <planetmaker> well. But do you want to write one for each? 22:53:09 <Ammler> as pm says 22:53:14 <orudge> well 22:53:27 <Ammler> then I would rather like to use openid 22:53:41 <orudge> the idea is that there is a single library which can then be easily called from each plug-in, it does something like "user_auth($username, $password)", and that's all there is to it 22:53:45 <orudge> theoretically, anyway 22:55:17 <planetmaker> you know this: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1620325 ? 22:55:18 <Webster> Title: phpBB View topic - [ABD] Apache/Kerberos single sign-on with LDAP/AD connection (at www.phpbb.com) 22:56:46 <orudge> OpenID can be look into in more detail, I guess; some sort of LDAP solution might be an alternative, but throughout this whole process, the assumption has basically been that the forum database will remain as the main database - actually having the forums use an external auth provider too might be a lot more work. 22:56:53 <planetmaker> and in any case: it needs independent sign-ons which just sync. And then the same method is much easier as e.g. for ldap sync solutions seem to exist (though I might err) 22:56:54 <orudge> I've not seen that specific thing, no 22:57:09 <orudge> hmm, well 22:57:14 <orudge> I just wonder if that might cause more confusion amongst users 22:57:24 <orudge> ie, still having the concept of different accounts on each site 22:57:31 <orudge> (but being able to use them on all of them) 22:57:37 <orudge> as opposed to having a single "tycoon" login 22:57:45 <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 83:19c40e845088: Add: AccessType to determin Private and Public chatter (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes/repository/revisions/19c40e845088 22:57:45 <Brot6> Java OpenTTD Admin Library - Revision 73:641c1a7fa306: Add: delegation methods (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/repository/revisions/641c1a7fa306 22:57:49 <orudge> anyway 22:58:36 <orudge> worth investigating more 22:58:38 <orudge> but for now I must go :) 22:59:05 <planetmaker> well, from my POV the advantage of this endeavour mostly is to get the NewGRF wiki finally integrated properly. Having a separate login for the openttd wiki than for the other openttd services IMHO is not the best thing to do, as it is easier for people to report bugs when they already have an account which they might have from the wiki 22:59:41 <orudge> well, the intention would be that the wiki, flyspray, and bananas would all switch to the new auth system 22:59:47 <orudge> but, as I say 22:59:51 <planetmaker> and yes, users are reluctant to register here and there - as such having the bug tracker use the same account would be very favourable 22:59:52 <orudge> we just need to work out how we're actually going to implement it 23:00:33 <planetmaker> orudge: that'd mean that we couldn't login to openttd anymore, should tt-forums be down - unless it's "just" syncing logins 23:00:55 <planetmaker> "openttd" as also commit or edit bugs 23:01:38 <planetmaker> but as you said - a solution first has to be found :-) 23:03:18 <orudge> planetmaker: well, that's true, but if you're going to have a properly centralised auth system, then that's unfortunately a downside, unless you're going to attempt to cache or sync the user data in some way. Obviously, the preference would be that the forums (or at least the forum DB) wouldn't be down anyway, and it mostly isn't ;) 23:03:24 <orudge> but yes 23:03:27 <orudge> shall look into things 23:03:32 <orudge> it's not going to be an overnight transition ;) 23:03:44 <orudge> and any suggestions are of course appreciated 23:03:46 <orudge> but for now, good night 23:03:53 <planetmaker> luckily over-night isn't needed either ;-) 23:03:53 <Lakie> Night Owen, 23:03:57 <planetmaker> good night orudge 23:06:23 <frosch123> why do ottd and forums actually need merging of users? 23:06:49 <frosch123> why not just use the forums users for the new wiki, and keep ottd stuff for bugs and bananas 23:09:43 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 2:8b937ca1deae: Invalidate order when order destination is not a valid stat... (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/8b937ca1deae 23:09:43 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 3:d2eb41715919: Remove old and unuseful comments (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/d2eb41715919 23:09:43 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 4:5ea1f86a39d7: Change aircraft building with efficiency/best/chopper modele. (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/5ea1f86a39d7 23:09:44 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 5:170b25d3ff0c: Now aircraft orders are changed when in the network, but st... (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/170b25d3ff0c 23:09:48 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 6:39951bea2f3f: Correct a bug when road depot isn't build but station is build (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/39951bea2f3f 23:09:51 <Rubidium> wiki has anonymous in any case, so it might not be that hard to check against the tt-forums database *and* the OpenTTD ldap 23:09:54 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 7:1144ac582fbd: Enforce rules for aircraft: respect limit for network & air... (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/1144ac582fbd 23:09:58 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 8:20205fccab7f: - Prevent building or maintenance on vehicle while upgrading (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/20205fccab7f 23:10:09 <Rubidium> after all, you can select multiple "domains" to log into 23:16:25 <Brot6> Grapes - Feature Request #1779 (Closed): String Tokenizer which handles Quoted text etc. (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1779#change-5735 23:21:07 <dihedral> unifying the login could become quite nasty - forums / openttd can be down at different times and neither have a High Availability setup 23:21:25 <dihedral> as soon as you start relying on the others login mechanism you'll have fun 23:21:37 <dihedral> i can see user complaints already :-D 23:22:38 <dihedral> of course you could go around clonding user data from one server to another server - then if the failing happens bewtween a password change form one user and the sync - at least you are only stuck with "my password does not work" 23:23:03 <dihedral> or of course if there should be a perring issue somewhere between openttd and tt-forums 23:23:31 <Ammler> I wouldn't care, if devzone is down when openttd is down :-) 23:24:10 <Brot6> Grapes - Code Review #1995 (Closed): IRC related extentions to be defined by Plugin (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1995#change-5736 23:24:25 <Ammler> you still have anonymous access 23:30:34 <dihedral> and if devzone is down for a few days? you expect users to not be able to login to openttd? 23:31:57 <dihedral> needing an old pw is not a problem, really. not being able to login to either of the thre pages due to another being down (possibly for a longer period of time) is 23:32:42 <dihedral> you could replicate locally, have all read access going to the local db for authentication, and send write access to the master server 23:33:02 <dihedral> that way, password changes would not be able to take place incase the master is down but at least people can sign in 23:33:33 <dihedral> with regards to WT and bugs. that would be kinda nasty :-P 23:46:50 *** frosch123 has quit IRC