Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 17th February 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:04  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Bug #2084 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Frank) @
00:25:10  <Brot6> North American Road Vehicle Set (NARVS) - Revision 18:f11ff6496a66: added Blender files (oberhuemer) @
00:26:30  <Brot6> narvs: update from  to r18 done -
00:26:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #885: Toyland House and Industry Ground tile (athanasios) @
00:26:56  <Brot6> North American Road Vehicle Set (NARVS) - Bug #2333 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
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08:33:30  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 46:bd2b09fe432f: - Pickup another route if the route lack a place to go (krinn) @
09:00:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1217:98d8d11ee39f: Change: make VarAction2LoadTempVar also an exp... (yexo) @
09:00:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1218:7c4c0902f2d9: Change: optimize divisions/multiplications by ... (yexo) @
09:00:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1219:e28de2d2aeb7: Change: optimize shift-left on a variable that... (yexo) @
09:00:38  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1220:2346ec9d88cc: Fix: for random action2's that need to compute... (yexo) @
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09:54:19  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1221:afa5516a700e: Cleanup: remove some duplicate code (yexo) @
09:59:59  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1222:cc77672aad57: Add: some comments in the nfo output for varac... (yexo) @
10:13:04  <planetmaker> Yexo, you updated the fences patch for FIRS a few days ago... could you add that to if you still have it on your local system?
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10:19:40  <Yexo> done
10:20:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2320: Fences for industries (yexo) @
10:28:21  <planetmaker> thank you :-)
10:29:09  <planetmaker> I think that or something very similar should become part of FIRS. And... I might look to add that somewhen not too distant future ;-)
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14:38:07  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 47:c1df3542327d: - Remove some code (krinn) @
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15:24:04  <V453000> hm, I didnt set any parameters for FIRS, yet industries change productions. Not only decrease but also increase ... is that expected?
15:26:45  <planetmaker> Doesn't it need to _set_ a parameter to disable changes?
15:27:16  <planetmaker> surely you'll have the developer tools enabled so you can check the parameters also ingame :-)
15:27:25  <planetmaker> and what they read
15:27:44  <planetmaker> if that's inconsistent with the behaviour... you know what to do :-P
15:34:48  <V453000> sure,sure, I will first let the game progress a bit so I have a material to support the eventual report with
15:38:50  <V453000> but well ... how do you _set_ a parameter with the parameter gui ... when it already says industries xyz decrease: off
15:47:51  <planetmaker> set it to 'on' and see whether only the text is wrong ;-)
15:49:00  <planetmaker> I don't know the code in FIRS which is related to that, I never even dared to look at it - except the parameter GUI so to say...
15:49:09  <planetmaker> but it did work in the previous versions, didn't it?
15:49:35  <planetmaker> or didn't those parameters work there either?
15:50:28  <V453000> I think when you didnt set any parameters in previous versions, at least pre-0.6., industries totally did not change
15:50:55  <V453000> I am actually quite sure about it because we played only with that, since allowing dying meant the bug when even serviced secondaries died
15:51:19  <planetmaker> yeah... - I'm not aware that anything changed there - but that doesn't mean anything ;-)
15:55:22  <V453000> I will make a report later then ... or ask andy first :)
15:56:07  <planetmaker> :-)
16:18:24  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2334 (New): NS 8200 DD-IRM (Voyager1) @
16:19:56  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2334: NS 8200 DD-IRM (Voyager1) @
16:24:27  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2335 (New): NS 20 'Kameel' (Voyager1) @
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16:45:35  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 48:112a24986e85: - If we can't find a place to build station, now return a ... (krinn) @
16:45:36  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 49:8ab321a2a581: - Change again delay to build from 1 month upto 3 months (krinn) @
16:45:36  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 50:7d72ee61b373: - Avoid cloning a vehicle that have a goto depot order (krinn) @
16:46:09  <Brot6> North American Road Vehicle Set (NARVS) - Bug #2333: DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:09:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2336 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:18:39  <Brot6> narvs: update from r17 to r18 done -
17:18:50  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r743), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r51), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1801), fish (r588), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset
17:18:50  <Brot6> (r56), newgrf_makefile (r255), nml (ERROR r1222), nutracks (r176), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r34), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r210), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r610), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r33), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:26  <planetmaker> damn, regression tests of NML already take quite some time on this machine ;-)
17:19:54  <planetmaker> but 2336 is a simple fix :-)
17:20:18  <Yexo> yep
17:21:19  <Yexo> I've run the regression test like 20 times today, just not after that last change
17:22:01  <planetmaker> :-)
17:22:06  <Yexo> it takes about 4.5 seconds to run it
17:22:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2336 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:22:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2336 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (yexo) @
17:22:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1223:2b95ab664669: Fix #2336 (r1222): forgot to update regression... (yexo) @
17:22:19  <planetmaker> here it's more like 30 seconds or so. Old P4...
17:22:45  <Brot6> nml: update from r1216 to r1223 done -
17:23:07  <Yexo> only now all other projects that need nml were not updated today
17:24:25  <DJNekkid> hi all :D
17:24:34  <planetmaker> I think not that tragic, is it?
17:24:50  <planetmaker> hi DJN
17:25:05  <DJNekkid> how is things hanging/standing/laying today? :)
17:25:16  <Yexo> no, not really :p
17:25:21  <Yexo> evening DJNekkid
17:25:28  <DJNekkid> Yexo :D
17:55:42  <Ammler> [18:23] <Yexo> only now all other projects that need nml were not updated today <-- "mass"-rebuild will happen tomorrow
17:56:07  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 51:f6583a8c76c2: - Send a low reliability vehicle to servicing (krinn) @
17:56:07  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 52:f9a844d53eb5: - for easier fairlevel, never pickup a route where someone... (krinn) @
18:33:45  <DJNekkid> how the *crap* do i open the OpenTTD ports on my server-box
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19:04:14  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r22088 to r22090 done (2 errors) -
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19:07:07  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:08:59  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22090 still failed (#2080) -
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19:11:59  <Ammler> DJNekkid: are you sure, they are closed?
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19:15:10  <andythenorth> evenings
19:15:47  <Ammler> DJNekkid: if you still use suse there, yast is the answer :-)
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19:21:37  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
19:21:50  <andythenorth> hi hi
19:22:17  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm mounting the "new" computer right now, soon we will know if I can profile with it or not :)
19:22:24  <andythenorth> ok
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19:52:08  <DJNekkid> Ammler: yes, suse :D
19:52:45  <DJNekkid> but there is no 'custum' in the dropdown menu
19:52:46  <DJNekkid> :(
19:56:38  <DJNekkid> and in the bottow menu (custum rules) i did 0/0 , low-port:high-port
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20:11:45  <Ammler> DJNekkid: why do you use a firewall at all?
20:11:53  <Ammler> is your server exposed, no NAT?
20:17:08  <DJNekkid> Ammler: no, not really exposed, i just figured it would be smart? :D
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20:18:09  <Ammler> if you have NAT, you have already a fw
20:18:33  <Ammler> I mean, you can use the same which you use for NAT also for filtering
20:18:34  <DJNekkid> true enough
20:22:02  <DJNekkid> currently messing with wine to get some games running :)
20:22:19  <DJNekkid> did install 11.3 on both my and the wifes laptop :)
20:23:34  <DJNekkid> but we do have some slight problem with flash things (youtube and things)
20:24:17  <Ammler> don't forget non-oss, update and packman
20:24:35  <Ammler> set packman a higher prio, lower number
20:26:49  <DJNekkid> i had it set it to 100, as i thought that were higher :D
20:28:40  <DJNekkid> her suse is in norwegian
20:28:45  <DJNekkid> and some words are just hilarious
20:29:07  <DJNekkid> repository is translated 'pakkebrønn' ... translates to english as 'packagewell'
20:30:42  <Ammler> well, you can use 2 languages at once
20:31:05  <Ammler> so e.g. set user root to English for configurations :-)
20:31:23  <Ammler> and just use KDE with Norwegian
20:31:30  <DJNekkid> its ok :)
20:31:48  <Ammler> not like stupid Windows, where it is limited to one language :-)
20:32:03  <DJNekkid> installed it for her last night
20:32:11  <DJNekkid> she heavent complaied yet, just the flash player thingy
20:35:05  <Ammler> everything should work :-)
20:36:48  <DJNekkid> i've googled it abit
20:36:58  <Ammler> it?
20:37:06  <DJNekkid> and it looks like there are more people complaining about flash player
20:37:12  <DJNekkid> i.e. youtube clips 'stop'
20:37:19  <DJNekkid> turns into a gray square
20:37:24  <Ammler> as said, I have no issues
20:37:27  <DJNekkid> and some facebook games
20:37:46  <Ammler> well, there is no shockwave
20:38:14  <DJNekkid> there?
20:38:20  <Ammler> for linux
20:38:52  <DJNekkid> i did install an adope flash thingy instead of the ...
20:39:00  <DJNekkid> pulling-flash or somethign like that
20:39:11  <Ammler> flash != shockwave
20:40:08  <DJNekkid> im not following
20:40:44  <Ammler> and you should never install something from non-suse repos, if available there
20:40:47  <Ammler> like flash
20:40:56  <Ammler> or graphics drivers
20:41:13  <DJNekkid> not even nvidia things?
20:41:20  <DJNekkid> form the 'additional repos' ?
20:41:33  <Ammler> yes, there is a suse repo at nvidia
20:41:45  <Ammler> I guess, you can add it through the community repos
20:42:01  <DJNekkid>
20:42:02  <Webster> Title: Additional package repositories - openSUSE (at
20:42:20  <Ammler> yes, fine :-)
20:42:43  <DJNekkid> added the nvidia repo from that page
20:42:46  <DJNekkid> plus packman
20:42:50  <Ammler> well, don't use vlc from videolan
20:43:04  <Ammler> use the packman vlc
20:43:32  <DJNekkid> i did notice the  (Do Not Mix with Packman) part
20:43:33  <DJNekkid> :D
20:43:40  <Ammler> good :-)
20:43:58  <Ammler> well, and repo games for stable openttd :-)
20:44:10  <Ammler> or repo home:openttdcoop for testing openttd
20:44:30  <DJNekkid> thoose i compile myself :)
20:45:17  <DJNekkid> the stable version that come out 'today' is obsolete 'tomorrow' :)
20:45:22  <Ammler> well, you still need the openttd rpm to install the build tools
20:45:50  <DJNekkid> thoose i did zypper install <whatever> :)
20:45:51  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:46:09  <DJNekkid> *slightly not-so-linux-noob-as-i-used-to-be-a-few-months-ago*
20:46:12  <DJNekkid> but only slightly :)
20:46:42  <DJNekkid> but either way
20:47:09  <DJNekkid> according to the mentioned googling, noone have reported flash problems with 11.4 RC1 (or2, i dont remember)
20:47:19  <DJNekkid> and 11.4 is due to come medio mars
20:47:26  <Ammler> well, 11.4 is not for you
20:47:30  <Ammler> not yet
20:47:46  <DJNekkid> roughly april :D
20:47:55  <DJNekkid> or?
20:48:07  <Ammler> release date + two months
20:48:16  <DJNekkid> oki :D
20:48:28  <Ammler> :-)
20:48:40  <Ammler> I wait around half a year or longer
20:48:55  <DJNekkid> to upgrade to the 'next stable' ?
20:49:08  <Ammler> yes, you need to do that at least yearly
20:49:35  <Ammler> the downside if you use bleeding edge distros
20:49:57  <Ammler> but dist upgrade is as easy as a "normal" update
20:50:04  <DJNekkid> yea...
20:50:25  <DJNekkid> you talked me thru the 11.0 to 11.3 on the server when i heavent figured out the problem yet
20:50:43  <DJNekkid> it were about 3 or 4 commands in the terminal
20:52:20  <Ammler> btw. if you change repos, you should also run "zypper dup"
20:52:50  <Ammler> like now, when you changed prio of packman
20:53:22  <Ammler> and you should check with "zypper lr" that every repo except oss, non-oss do refresh
20:54:24  <DJNekkid> about 50 updates, 1/3 were downgrades, a couple were remove, and the rest were updates
20:55:19  <DJNekkid> 43 packages to upgrade, 28 to downgrade, 36 new, 5 to remove, 71  to change vendor
20:55:56  <DJNekkid> i guess that packman fellar knows his things :P
20:56:06  <DJNekkid> < .............................
20:56:10  <DJNekkid> :P
21:00:03  <Ammler> well, many downgrades might simply be other build runs
21:00:33  <DJNekkid> im not worried :D
21:00:44  <Ammler> just check the version details
21:00:53  <Ammler> I don't run every update
21:01:19  <DJNekkid> i'ts probably like r22043 instead of r22053 of openttd :P
21:02:04  <Ammler> no, it is like r22043 from you or r22043 from me
21:02:56  <Ammler> but e.g. k3b from packman has mp3 support
21:03:08  <Ammler> or ktorrent has dht etc.
21:03:55  <Ammler> opensuse has hard restrictions accoding to proprietary software
21:04:16  <Ammler> or the stupid german law
21:05:21  <DJNekkid> lol
21:05:29  <Ammler> you might also miss dvdcss
21:05:44  <DJNekkid> DVD-jon's thing? :P
21:07:03  <Ammler> yes, german law doesn't allow dvd tools which are able to run dvd from other regions
21:08:12  <DJNekkid> we have a like 30€ DVD-player hooked up to the TV...
21:08:20  <DJNekkid> region free and all, so its ok :D
21:08:48  <Ammler> DJNekkid: zypper ar -r && zypper in libdvdcss
21:11:49  <DJNekkid> noted :D
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21:43:46  <DJNekkid> thats anoying
21:43:58  <DJNekkid> when im tradeing guns with the indians the game goes black
21:44:02  <DJNekkid> (colonization)
21:48:50  <Ammler> yes, give them alcohol, that is all they need, according to the movies
21:49:00  <V453000> ^_^
21:50:30  <DJNekkid> hmm, not even horses work :(
21:54:08  <frosch123> andythenorth: Hirundo Yexo: <- anything to add?
21:56:44  <andythenorth> frosch123: looks like it could also be purposed to handle animation?
21:56:48  <Yexo> do objects have construction stages? (bit unrelated)
21:57:47  <frosch123> currently objects use only the first sprite in a set
22:00:21  <frosch123> same as for airports :)
22:02:55  <planetmaker> frosch123: also when you didn't ask me, I'm quite happy with the syntax
22:02:56  <Yexo> only thing I can think of you could add is a way to set the palette also via a register
22:03:20  <frosch123> sorry, planetmaker :)
22:03:21  <planetmaker> palette / recolour sprite you mean? yeah
22:03:29  <planetmaker> no offence taken :-)
22:03:35  <planetmaker> was mean humorous :-)
22:04:00  <frosch123> hmm, palette...
22:04:03  <planetmaker> irc doesn't carry that well.
22:06:12  <frosch123> one bit for "add register to palette", one for "palette from action 1", one reserved for "set bounding box dimension via registers", remains one left
22:06:18  <planetmaker> what about z-offset?
22:06:38  <frosch123> oh, typo, the scond yofffset is zoffset :)
22:06:45  <andythenorth> I can't see anything missing, but testing real code is best :D
22:07:02  <planetmaker> oh, missed the doubling there ;-)
22:07:37  <andythenorth> if there was a somewhat working patch, I would happily try and find edge cases
22:07:43  <andythenorth> even if it was far from trunk-ready
22:08:00  * andythenorth seems to find the difficult cases
22:08:27  <Yexo> Note: In contrast to the usual Action2 <groundsprite> may be zero to not draw any sprite. <- isn't that already supported for the "extended" format?
22:08:45  <frosch123> ottd does that, but the specs say it is not allowed :)
22:09:17  <Yexo> Since 2.0.1 alpha 57, the groundsprite value can be zero if no ground sprite is needed (this is useful if you need to draw custom foundations, see example).
22:09:40  <frosch123> oh, i thing i confused it with buldingsprite
22:09:51  <frosch123> (buildingsprite zero would make no sense anyway)
22:10:19  <Yexo> buildingsprite zero does make sense, but for that case you can use the basic format
22:10:57  <Yexo> however the basic format has to z-offset, so how does that cooperate with your new syntax?
22:11:50  <frosch123> basic format is not supported
22:12:03  <frosch123> makes no sense to do
22:12:28  <frosch123> either you have a buildingsprite, then you can use the extended format as well
22:12:38  <Yexo> but say I have a tile with only a groundsprite and no buildingsprite but still want to use an offset for that groundsprite
22:12:42  <frosch123> or you have a groundsprite, then you can use the extended format as well
22:13:02  <frosch123> via the draw groundsprites as childsprites thingie
22:13:14  <Yexo> ah, I didn't think of that :)
22:13:24  <Yexo> so groundsprite = 0, childsprite = actual groundsprite
22:13:39  <frosch123> yup, i added a line about that now
22:13:44  <Yexo> hmm, nml could make use of that to simplify the code a bit
22:13:54  <planetmaker> :-)
22:14:18  <frosch123> Yexo: groundsprite has some special effects
22:14:29  <frosch123> like plain water tile draws water matching waterclass
22:15:16  <frosch123> you cannot do that magic with registers, but i think it would not make sense anyway
22:15:46  <Yexo> hmm, true
22:16:02  <Yexo> so for a tile with just water and nothing else the basic format should still be used
22:18:01  <Yexo>  "palette from action 1" <- no more GRM just to use a custom palette? nice :)
22:19:27  <planetmaker> that sounds good
22:19:52  <Yexo> overall a very nice spec :)
22:19:57  <frosch123> added
22:20:03  * andythenorth likes
22:20:05  <andythenorth> "Not all .grf files will work with OpenTTD, as NewGRF is, at this stage of development, only partially supported. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing ahead of time which .grf files will work with OpenTTD and which will not. The only way to tell is to install the .grf and begin playing."
22:20:08  <andythenorth> is that even true?
22:20:26  <Yexo> where did you read that?
22:20:28  <planetmaker> not quite, I think
22:20:38  <planetmaker> though technically, of course
22:20:42  <andythenorth> meh
22:20:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: there are certain grfs which do not work with ottd
22:20:45  <Yexo> if wiki -> most likely some text from 2006 or so
22:20:57  <frosch123> most easy case: new signals
22:21:04  <andythenorth> my inner pedant is troubled by that page
22:21:08  <frosch123> but there are some corners cases more
22:21:09  <planetmaker> practically those grfs either don't want it, or it could technically be known
22:23:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1802:030b13018553: Change: minor edit to docs - mention ... (andythenorth) @
22:31:37  * andythenorth will soon be at lat 19
22:33:08  <andythenorth> but even sooner asleep
22:33:10  <andythenorth> good night
22:33:40  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:41:38  <Yexo> frosch123: do you also have plans to implement it or are you just writing a spec?
22:42:23  <planetmaker> just watering our mouths ;-)
22:42:43  * planetmaker hopes not so
22:47:02  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - r13.grf (BarthVader) @
22:47:40  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - Revision 13:542f01535134: Feature: wagon prices. First Release Candidate (BarthVader) @
22:50:28  <frosch123> Yexo: the plan was to try implementing it this weekend
22:51:05  <Yexo> no rush, I was just curious :)
22:51:26  <frosch123> though it is quite likely, if i do not implement it soon, i will likely not implement it at all :p
22:51:47  <planetmaker> :-P
22:53:37  <Ammler> hmm, I should support building nml without Makefile
22:54:33  <Ammler> else nobody tells BarthVader about missing files ;-)
22:56:27  <planetmaker> hm?
22:56:56  <planetmaker> oh
22:57:32  <planetmaker> well. Maybe a good idea... but that'd mean to move the makefile to the CF basically. At least the makefile_bundles
22:57:49  <planetmaker> but... not sure it makes sense
22:58:48  <Ammler> well, the problem is rather that we do not know the filename
22:59:13  <Ammler> else we could simply run "nmlc project.nml"
22:59:59  <Rubidium> svn ls svn:// | grep '\.nml$' ;)
23:00:24  <Ammler> well, in this case, it isn't even a nml
23:00:34  <Ammler> you could alos simply run nmlc *.nml
23:07:16  <Yexo> I don't see the point, it's a lot of work that doesn't really help
23:07:34  <Yexo> it'd probably be easier to convince BarthVader to use the default makefile system
23:08:11  <Ammler> well, Makefile is hell to setup on windows
23:11:43  <planetmaker> he doesn't need to use it. He just needs to add it
23:12:09  <planetmaker> Maybe I should supply a minimal makefile. Which does not configure anything but just provides the build targets
23:12:11  <planetmaker> for the CF
23:12:31  <planetmaker> that'd be quite easy actually
23:20:38  <frosch123> night
23:20:42  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
23:24:00  <Ammler> oh well, I don't really mind, it should just be something to help those guys notify about complete source, and building on the server seems the easiest
23:24:32  <Ammler> you can run commands on the rpm like a shell script
23:25:11  <Ammler> so whatever, of course not like rubi suggested with "svn/hg <url>" :-)
23:25:22  <Ammler> as the chroot has no internet access

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