Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 27th February 2011:
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00:17:27  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 77:7c3ef72220af: - Keep updating code (krinn) @
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00:32:30  <planetmaker> Yexo: there's no nml snowline newgrf so far
00:32:36  <planetmaker> I think of adding it to ogfx+landscape, though
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00:45:30  <supermop> hello
00:49:32  <planetmaker> hi
00:50:27  <supermop> so, now a couple days of free time
00:50:42  <supermop> hopefuly i can get my grf all set up
00:55:24  <supermop> isn't it late for you in germany?
00:57:21  <planetmaker> yes, quite. And I just returned home and I'm quite tired :-)
00:57:35  <planetmaker> 2 am ;-)
01:00:12  <planetmaker> and that's why I'll wish you a good rest of the evening :-)
01:02:15  <supermop> thanks, you too
01:04:00  <planetmaker> I'll be off most of the next two days. But 4mmler and y3xo can help you along with the devzone as well. And many others with hg
01:05:21  <supermop> ok neat!
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01:42:10  <DJNekkid> Nekomaster is even more stupid then i am!
02:11:36  <supermop> ha
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04:52:54  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 612:99fbcb646238: Fix: PAX capacity for Paddle Steamer was wrong (andythenorth) @
04:52:54  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 613:4c265ef8e78f: Fix: buy cost for Paddle Steamer was too high (andythenorth) @
07:34:21  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2316 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @
07:35:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2265 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @
07:39:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2366 (New): No cement with ECS construction vector (planetmaker) @
07:44:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #2367 (New): Consistently define all vehicles as new, fixed IDs (planetmaker) @
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08:51:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 613:4473972f9cab: Fix #2201: Improve sprite for loaded state for the temperate... (planetmaker) @
08:51:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature Request #2201 (Closed): Full maglev coal wagons are too bright (planetmaker) @
08:54:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112: Houses' foundation sprites (planetmaker) @
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09:01:58  <Alberth> in ogfx-rv:  make clean ; make   gives a "cat: ogfx-rv.nml: No such file or directory" error, see
09:01:59  <Webster> Title: Viewing Paste #84010 (at
09:02:53  <Rubidium> I think it's a circular dependency
09:03:04  <Rubidium> or at least it feels like one
09:06:28  <Terkhen> Alberth: I was told it is a known issue of the newgrf build system, probably #2067
09:06:28  <Brot6> Terkhen: Alberth: #2067 is "Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2067: treat $(CLEAN_ADD) more gracefully - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
09:09:00  <Alberth> Terkhen: seems like it
09:09:35  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112: Houses' foundation sprites (planetmaker) @
09:19:12  <planetmaker> I think it just needs to update the Makefile... which I didn't do obviously for RV yet
09:38:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2359 (Closed): Brewery string for vegetables misses cargo am... (Hirundo) @
09:38:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2359 (Closed): Brewery string for vegetables misses cargo am... (andythenorth) @
09:42:33  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 256:7e8381428646: Fix: Clean cleaned a bit too much under some ... (planetmaker) @
09:46:44  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 257:23ea67ca9df4: Doc: Update changelog (planetmaker) @
09:46:44  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 258:888ee8a6160e: Added tag 0.5.4 for changeset 23ea67ca9df4 (planetmaker) @
09:47:51  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2368 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
09:48:20  <planetmaker> Alberth: should be solved now
09:48:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 79:65a067abe868: Change: [Makefile] Update to Makefile 0.5.4 (planetmaker) @
09:49:20  <Alberth> it is, thanks
09:51:41  <Terkhen> thanks planetmaker :)
09:52:14  <planetmaker> no problem :-9
09:52:23  <planetmaker> s/9/\)/ :-P
10:00:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2350 (Confirmed): Alcohol not produced in sub-tropical sugar... (andythenorth) @
10:01:27  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1813:ac145a9aa038: Cleanup: (translations) remove unneed... (andythenorth) @
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10:09:10  <andythenorth> afternoon
10:11:06  <Alberth> hello andy
10:13:54  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
10:20:54  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
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11:30:15  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2369 (New): Wrong capacity for the Fiumelatte Paddle Steamer (Terkhen) @
11:50:25  <Ammler> nobody ever noticed that svn convert also has the metadate like hgsubversion :-)
11:50:58  <Ammler> so "hg up "svnrev(20000)" would also work with the hg repos from
11:51:37  <Ammler> or hg parent --template="{svnrev}\n"
11:54:33  <Yexo> <planetmaker> Yexo: there's no nml snowline newgrf so far <- good, so nothing was broken :)
12:00:39  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112: Houses' foundation sprites (planetmaker) @
12:01:37  <Ammler> planetmaker: # is for tickets only :-P
12:01:44  <planetmaker> ;-) I saw that
12:01:52  <Ammler> :-D
12:02:34  <Ammler> or @#NUM@ might work
12:03:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112: Houses' foundation sprites (planetmaker) @
12:03:34  <Ammler> yes :-)
12:04:16  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 78:292ce97ec415: - ... (krinn) @
12:04:29  <planetmaker> interesting :-)
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12:23:51  * andythenorth has a design problem
12:23:55  <andythenorth> needs thoughts
12:24:18  <andythenorth> FIRS Sugar Refinery is supposed to produce an additional cargo in tropic - alcohol
12:24:32  <andythenorth> but the production code is *way* not templated for that
12:24:45  <andythenorth> it would be ugly to special case the code for just one industry
12:25:05  * andythenorth is thinking of just adding another industry in tropic: rum distillery
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16:08:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1253:e0ae2fb87790: Change: Rename industry property prod_flags to... (Hirundo) @
16:08:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1254:aa1b99a3b08c: Doc: Improve documentation of industry cost mu... (Hirundo) @
16:08:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1255:fe31da21fede: Codechange: Rename property new_ind_text to ne... (Hirundo) @
16:08:03  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1256:a169ad4a296e: Add: Constants for concrete and water ground s... (Hirundo) @
16:08:07  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1257:7f21ff1da909: Add: A builtin function to get the ID of an in... (Hirundo) @
16:08:11  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1258:b654171846dd: Feature: Implement industry property 0x16 (con... (Hirundo) @
16:08:17  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1259:5046acccaf9b: Fix: Missing import in (Hirundo) @
16:08:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1260:5b78a155884d: Doc: Document that the industry map colour use... (Hirundo) @
16:08:25  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1261:82912507cb61: Change: Merge both prod_multiplier properties ... (Hirundo) @
16:09:26  <Hirundo> Do I get a cookie per commit ;) ?
16:12:41  <Terkhen> nice :)
16:14:01  <Terkhen> after reading the commits I get the idea that they are things I would have stumbled upon eventually while doing custom chains
16:22:21  <Hirundo> Writing an example industry grf has its benefits :)
16:22:52  <Terkhen> :)
16:25:08  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1262:12384bff295a: Doc: Real sprite compression and an example. (Hirundo) @
16:27:05  <Yexo> Hirundo: r1257, maybe use IND_TYPE_OLD or IND_TYPE_NEW in the error message instead of 0/1 ?
16:27:28  <Yexo> imo the 0/1 is just an internal value and shouldn't be visible to a grf author at all
16:31:54  <Hirundo> good point, will do
16:33:23  * frosch123 is surprised nml exposes the real sprite compression type
16:33:56  <Yexo> frosch123: it's needed to set "no-crop" for some sprites
16:34:00  <frosch123> btw. TILE | COMPRESSED is no valid combination, but ottd ignores COMPRESSED anyway
16:34:02  <Yexo> or you wouldn't be able to crop sprites at all
16:34:19  <frosch123> yes, CROP is important :)
16:34:42  <Yexo> openttd tries to load all sprites as if they are compressed?
16:35:15  <frosch123> ottd loads all sprites on first use, and stores them uncompressed in the spritecache
16:35:26  <Yexo> Hirundo: why can't prod_multiplier be an array with a single value for industries that only produce one cargo type?
16:35:30  <frosch123> TILE and NORMAL are ignored as well (except for actually reading)
16:35:39  <Yexo> nml should be able to set the second one to 0 (or FF, dunno what's better)
16:35:56  <frosch123> the simple blitters more or less user NORMAL for all sprites, while the optimised blitters use something like TILE for all
16:36:28  <frosch123> <- i summarised the compression thingie some time ago
16:36:29  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [8bpp] Graphics Replacement Project - OpenGFX (at
16:36:34  <Yexo> if nml became real smart it could try both TILE and COMPRESSED and see which one results in a smaller output
16:36:52  <frosch123> file size is the only thing you can archieve with ottd there :)
16:37:18  <Yexo> I'm not interested at all in drawing speed for ttdpatch
16:37:30  <Hirundo> So I guess, we should remove all of those except the cropping
16:38:27  <frosch123> if you can detect which sprites are used as parent sprites in spritelayouts, then you can also automatically set the crop bit
16:38:46  <Hirundo> Yexo: Specifying one doesn't work for the input multipliers, I more or less copied that
16:39:09  <Yexo> so fix the input multipliers too :p
16:39:10  <frosch123> though it is needed for base graphics and action 5/a stuff of course
16:39:43  <Yexo> frosch123: how needed is it? just for performance or can the wrong compression type cause glitches/bugs?
16:39:43  <Hirundo> Will check later, gonna eat something first
16:40:14  <frosch123> hmm? do you refer to the CROP bit?
16:40:34  <Yexo> no, the other bits
16:40:42  <Yexo> <frosch123> though it is needed for base graphics and action 5/a stuff of course <- what exactly is needed?
16:40:51  <frosch123> only the CROP :)
16:42:11  <frosch123> any CROP is only needed for parent sprites (and for those action5/a or base graphics, where you do not know in advance whether they might be used as parent sprites)
16:42:29  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2370 (New): review real sprite compression type (yexo) @
16:45:29  * Yexo is gone for a few hours, gotta catch a train back home
17:07:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2371 (New): Disable an (original) item (Hirundo) @
17:08:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1263:2d5306d4431b: Fix: Clarify error message in industry_type(..... (Hirundo) @
17:09:28  <Brot6> nml: update from r1251 to r1262 done -
17:10:36  <Brot6> nml: update from r1262 to r1263 done -
17:19:02  <Brot6> firs: update from r1812 to r1813 done -
17:19:39  <Brot6> fish: update from r611 to r613 done -
17:20:09  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r255 to r258 done -
17:20:24  <Brot6> ogfx-rv: update from r78 to r79 done -
17:21:30  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r612 to r613 done -
17:21:38  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r743), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r51), comic-houses (r71), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r578), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r19), nml
17:21:38  <Brot6> (r1263), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r41), ogfx-trains (r210), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:22:59  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2372 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:23:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2373 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:25:00  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus, belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors), narvs, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-trains (39 errors) (Diffsize: 27046), spanishtowns, swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns
17:27:43  <Ammler> do not commit while devzone is scheduling nightlies :-P
17:29:28  <Terkhen> when should be safe to push a fix for ogfx-industries?
17:29:41  <Ammler> always :-)
17:29:50  <Ammler> it doesn't hurt
17:29:54  <Terkhen> ah, ok :)
17:30:24  <Ammler> I was just scared of the 2 nml builds
17:31:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 4:eacc82d1c0f1: Change: Update for changes in NML. (Terkhen) @
17:31:26  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r3 to r4 done -
17:33:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1264:92a21fdcf285: Codechange: Allow input/production multipliers... (Hirundo) @
18:07:17  <Terkhen> Hirundo: are you planning changes to prod_cargo_types or accept_cargo_types?
18:11:27  <Hirundo> Terkhen: What are you expecting?
18:12:07  <Terkhen> nothing; I just don't want to start that if it is going to be changed soon :)
18:15:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2371 (New): Disable an (original) item (Hirundo) @
18:17:05  <Yexo> do we want disable(feature, id[, num]) or disable(feature, id_from[..id_to]) ?
18:17:48  * Yexo is lucky to have a train with internet :)
18:18:02  <Hirundo> same here
18:19:04  <Hirundo> I'd say num, since that works easier with action0, esp. if using action 6 to set id/num
18:20:28  <Yexo> you can't set num with action 6
18:20:44  <Yexo> you need to have exactly as many FF bytes as num if you want to code it in a single action 0
18:20:50  <Yexo> so that's only possible if num is constant
18:21:35  <Yexo> for normal use I'd expect both id and num to be constant, but then the same holds for id_from and id_to
18:22:10  <Hirundo> good point
18:22:17  <Hirundo> in normal use, I'd expect id to be 0 actually
18:22:26  <Hirundo> at least for vehicles
18:22:44  <Yexo> I don't, id = the id of the vehicle to disable
18:23:28  <Yexo> it'll be zero only if you set num = all (vehicles/industries/whatever) to disable all original (something)
18:23:29  <Hirundo> you might want to disable all of them quite often
18:23:36  <Hirundo> tough, I think your idea is better
18:24:14  <Yexo> it's not better perse, just a bit different
18:25:31  <Hirundo> I think for houses/industries, a common use case may be to disable many, but not all
18:26:51  <Yexo> especially for industries one might want to disable different industries dependend on the current climate / some parameter
18:28:25  <Hirundo> perhaps disable_item(..) instead of disable(..)
18:28:34  <Yexo> agreed
18:30:03  <Hirundo> anything else, before I start coding? :)
18:31:02  <Alberth> good luck? :)
18:31:35  <Yexo> nope, go ahead :-)
18:32:09  <Yexo> Alberth: I know you stopped working on nml, but if you have a good idea on how to restructure so it stays readable that would be very welcome
18:32:26  <Alberth> "stays" ? :p
18:32:33  <Alberth> I'll have a look
18:32:36  <Yexo> ok, "becomes again" :p
18:33:05  <Yexo> main reason I ask: there are already a lot of properties and it's quite unclear which one it is without looking up to the constructor everytime
18:33:31  <Yexo> now I need one more property: "can be used on floating point values" (ok for add, sub, mul, but not for shift for example)
18:47:38  <Alberth> would also state the keyword, eg ADD ?
18:47:39  <Webster> Title: Viewing Paste #84084 (at
18:48:34  <Yexo> hmm, didn't think of that
18:48:39  <Yexo> that looks better already :)
18:49:15  <Yexo> even more because that makes it a lot easier to leave out act2_str/act2_num when act2_supports=False
18:49:36  <Alberth> if you have default argument values :)
18:49:50  <Yexo> that is easy to add
18:53:37  <Alberth> you also need to load an INI file :p
18:54:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1265:9328cdc01a36: Fix: internal error when the parameter number ... (yexo) @
18:54:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1266:8508232a4038: Change: simplify code a bit by removing a spec... (yexo) @
18:56:32  <Yexo> hehe :)
18:56:43  <Yexo> nice as that is for openttd, it's not really applicable here :p
18:58:42  <Alberth> the other option would be to write code that computes these values based on the operator, but that may be less clean
19:01:37  <Alberth> hmm, for each value a dict of 'operator -> value'  would also be an option,  but still less nice than keywords to the arguments imho
19:02:59  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of h6989e74e still failed (#2343) -
19:03:13  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22156 still failed (#2347) -
19:05:19  <Yexo> I agree that a dict for every value is less nice
19:05:40  <Yexo> that'd group everything per property, not per operator like now
19:06:20  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22148 to r22156 done -
19:21:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2272 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Terkhen) @
19:21:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2373 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
19:21:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2373 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Terkhen) @
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19:58:27  <frosch123> new nml does not put a utf-8 control code in front of action 8 description (of manindu). does it detect that it is not needed, or is something broken?
20:02:08  <Alberth>   afaik it is smart
20:02:36  <frosch123> it also produces 37 less sprites now :)
20:03:42  <Alberth> I don't know about that
20:04:05  <frosch123> looks like it evaluates some terms in different order and saves some actiond
20:06:53  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2372 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
20:06:53  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Revision 7:5965230b731d: Fix #2372: Update to new NML. (frosch) @
20:06:53  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2372 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (frosch) @
20:07:22  <Brot6> manindu: update from r6 to r7 done -
20:33:29  <Yexo> frosch123: it's become smarter, it only prints the utf-8 control code when it's actually needed
20:33:59  <Yexo> also there have been some optimizations that result indeed in less actionD sprites
20:49:21  <frosch123> yeah, with every new nml version manindu.grf becomes smaller :)
20:50:42  <Yexo> good :)
21:13:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2371 (Closed): Disable an (original) item (Hirundo) @
21:13:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1268:1381b0bc7730: Feature: disable_item(..) block that allows di... (Hirundo) @
21:13:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1267:1ef3ddba03a5: Doc: Improve documentation about accepted/prod... (Hirundo) @
21:13:57  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1269:3a36d33a0148: Add: Regression test for disable_item. (Hirundo) @
21:14:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1270:b4228e0ab8db: Doc: disable_item block (closes #2371). (Hirundo) @
21:14:05  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2371 (Closed): Disable an (original) item (Hirundo) @
21:17:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1423: Example industry project (Hirundo) @
21:19:22  <Yexo> nice work Hirundo
21:23:48  <Terkhen> indeed, I was missing the cargotype() :)
21:25:29  * Terkhen will be using disable_item a lot too :)
21:29:18  <Hirundo> I suspected that :)
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21:54:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 80:8e5bd1e9b5cc: Codechange: Use disable_item instead of removi... (Terkhen) @
21:54:40  <Terkhen> from 423 lines to 12 :)
21:55:32  <Yexo> the grf has become smaller too :)
21:56:58  <Terkhen> true :)
22:05:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 211:78df56c3cf0b: Codechange: Use disable_item instead of removing unu... (Terkhen) @
22:05:39  <Terkhen> ^ the same happens for OpenGFX+ Trains
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22:29:19  <Brot6> AroAI - Patch #2132 (Reopened): DevZone Compile Farm (LordAro) @
22:40:01  <Ammler> reopen a ticket to say "thanks"?
22:40:55  <Ammler> ah no, new patch :-)
22:41:55  * Ammler removes highlight to "DevZone" :-)
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