Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 16th March 2011:
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04:55:07  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 77:b6ebda32219a: Feature: cargo graphics for Wood (closes #2429) (andythenorth) @
04:55:07  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2429 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Wood (andythenorth) @
05:21:56  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 78:ded9b160c61e: Feature: cargo graphics for Chemicals (RFPR), Petro... (andythenorth) @
05:21:56  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2422 (Closed): Cargo graphics for chemicals (andythenorth) @
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08:34:21  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 102:d23844a4ebcc: - fix the save function with new format, now save game wo... (krinn) @
08:52:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Purno) @
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11:04:20  <planetmaker> would you be interested in sprites like , andythenorth ?
11:17:28  <andythenorth> planetmaker: not my kind of thing ;)
11:17:49  <andythenorth> I am disappearing into a rabbit hole labelled 'TTD style only'
11:18:00  <andythenorth> although what that means changes daily :P
11:20:00  <andythenorth> brb
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11:22:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: that looks like comic style
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11:28:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (DJNekkid) @
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11:32:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2444 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
11:32:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2444 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (DJNekkid) @
11:57:57  <Yexo> andythenorth: is there any more coding I can do for chips?
11:58:25  <andythenorth> Yexo: actually not today I think :o
11:58:36  <andythenorth> I need some help with set design though
11:58:44  <andythenorth> but I'm feeding the baby right now ;)
12:00:07  <andythenorth> Yexo: I have two problems currently with CHIPS
12:00:13  <andythenorth> 1. some of the graphics suck
12:00:17  <andythenorth> (which I can fix)
12:00:34  <andythenorth> 2. it's very regular due to only having one tile type for each direction
12:00:45  <andythenorth> (I know there's some random on the empty tiles)
12:01:59  <Yexo> making it less regular is hard, best way I can think of is more graphics
12:02:15  <andythenorth> yes
12:02:25  <andythenorth> I would like it to work same as default stations
12:02:37  <andythenorth> equivalent of: platform, building, roof A, roof B
12:02:41  <andythenorth> and similar pattern for building
12:02:47  <andythenorth> but I need to spec that a bit more
12:02:49  <andythenorth> brb
12:02:58  <Yexo> ok, but if you show a roof, how would you display the cargo?
12:03:18  <andythenorth> some equivalent
12:03:26  <andythenorth> like cargo piles that bridge two tracks
12:03:31  <andythenorth> or a crane that bridges two tracks
12:03:34  <andythenorth> something like that
12:03:44  <Yexo> ah, ok
12:04:13  <andythenorth> I'm also wondering about adding a menu of tiles that aren't magic
12:04:24  <andythenorth> so players can build tiles for specific cargo tiles
12:04:34  <andythenorth> not my play style, but might be useful for a lot of people
12:05:06  <Yexo> does that means tiles that are the same as the current tiles but they react only to a single cargo type?
12:05:28  <andythenorth> yes
12:05:43  <andythenorth> or maybe actually it's specific graphics, not the cargo type
12:05:50  <andythenorth> they'll be less template-friendly :(
12:06:16  <Yexo> if it's completely the same as the current tiles but only for one cargo type instead of all they can reuse most of the current template
12:06:42  <andythenorth> if you have time to code, you could test it...
12:07:08  <andythenorth> but with n ground types and o cargo graphics, I think it's bad to have n*o tiles :o
12:07:33  <Yexo> agreed, that is not a good idea
12:08:35  <andythenorth> and as I don't care about these tiles personally, I'm not sure what's best :P
12:08:50  <andythenorth> at some point it starts to duplicate ISR and DWE which is pointless
12:11:15  <andythenorth> Yexo: how about coding the layouts so they replicate the default stations?
12:11:22  <andythenorth> then I can plaster graphics on them
12:11:35  <andythenorth> you might want to use some squares for now?
12:11:59  <andythenorth> or...there's a ticket to add a dock + parameter to disable
12:12:19  <Yexo> if you want to replicate the default station layout you don't need to code that at all, you can easily copy that
12:12:30  <Yexo> IIRC by using \dx0 as groundsprite
12:13:05  <Yexo> I'm still not really sure what the point is, ie what kind of graphics you'd use
12:27:55  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Purno) @
13:20:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1858:bff572b0feb6: Fix: Correct a few strings in the Spa... (Terkhen) @
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15:15:41  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (DJNekkid) @
15:21:38  * andythenorth wonders if nml could ship with a built in CTT
15:21:53  <andythenorth> and the possibility for authors to locally over-rider
15:21:56  <andythenorth> -r
15:22:15  <andythenorth> so authors could just use labels
15:33:11  <Yexo> it could, but then nml would have to detect whether or not that CTT is actually used and omit it when it's not
15:33:15  <Yexo> too much trouble
15:33:37  <Yexo> and no immediate benefit, including a CTT is not much work, especially as you can copy it from several existing projects
15:40:13  <andythenorth> hmm
15:40:18  <andythenorth> maybe it's an issue of documentation
15:40:47  <andythenorth> the current wiki documentation makes CTT look like a black art
15:40:57  <andythenorth> I didn't understand them for about two years
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16:04:09  <MinchinWeb> I'm trying to compile a NML based townlist and I get an error;
16:04:33  <MinchinWeb> "Not enough random bits (36 needed, 32 available)"
16:04:55  <MinchinWeb> is there a way to work around this?
16:05:28  <MinchinWeb> #openttdcoop
16:05:57  <Yexo> maybe you can fix it by moving the blocks around a bit
16:06:47  <Yexo> are you by chance using very high probabilities for most names?
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16:07:33  <MinchinWeb> all over the map
16:07:46  <MinchinWeb> but some are 3 or 4 deep
16:08:04  <MinchinWeb> if I lower probabilities all around, will that help?
16:08:19  <Yexo> yes
16:09:12  <Ammler> max is 127
16:09:43  <MinchinWeb> yeah, they're all under 127...if gives you a different error if you go over that
16:10:09  <Ammler> then you could report a bug maybe :-)
16:10:19  <Yexo> those probabilities are only relative, so if all of them are 100 and some of them 50 that'll give the same result as all 2 and some 1
16:10:42  <Yexo> Ammler: it's not a bug of nml, it's a limitation in the nfo spec
16:10:52  <Ammler> Yexo: afaik nml does handle that
16:10:58  <Yexo> the only thing that can be done is improving the documentation / a clearer error message
16:11:08  <Terkhen> maybe it has too many nested parts?
16:11:09  <Ammler> you should not need to bother about the total
16:12:13  <Ammler> MinchinWeb: care to share your nml? (
16:12:18  <MinchinWeb> does it try and try and calculate a path all the way through at the beginning, or does it do it a block at a time
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16:13:15  <MinchinWeb> Ammler, how do I send you the link?
16:13:21  <Ammler> here
16:14:01  <MinchinWeb> ok; let me try again; how do I get the link to what I pasted?
16:14:27  <Ammler> it is on the address bar
16:14:51  <MinchinWeb>
16:15:20  <MinchinWeb>
16:15:32  <MinchinWeb> (I have to hit paste...)
16:24:12  <Ammler> needing of >32bits is insane
16:24:38  <MinchinWeb> how does it determine how many bits you need?
16:24:50  <MinchinWeb> (I'm down to 'only' needing 33)
16:24:58  <Ammler> the total of all probabilities, I thought
16:25:31  <Ammler> how did you reach that?
16:26:06  <MinchinWeb> lowering the absolue probabilities in a number of places
16:26:07  <Ammler> it seems like it does add the needed bits per part
16:26:42  <Yexo> it does
16:27:01  <Yexo> although I'm not sure of the exact way it does that, alberth coded most of the townnames support
16:27:25  <MinchinWeb>  with the new probabilites
16:28:05  <Ammler> MinchinWeb: maybe you can wait for Alberth, it might also be interested in that issue
16:28:14  <Ammler> he*
16:28:23  <MinchinWeb> when do you expect him on?
16:28:31  <Ammler> no idea :-)
16:28:41  <MinchinWeb> :)  right
16:29:00  <Ammler> but as said, your grf is the first one, which messes with parts :-)
16:29:54  <Ammler> the only parts we used are because of the limited amount of names per part
16:31:14  <MinchinWeb> things can get interesting when you push the envolope... :)
16:32:05  <planetmaker> you probably need very many bits for the GROUP_20_1
16:32:44  <MinchinWeb> if I split it myself, would that help?
16:33:28  <planetmaker> and really many for GROUP_20
16:34:55  <planetmaker> maybe you could consider to reduce the probabilities of all those to an equal probability
16:35:01  <MinchinWeb> if I comment out GROUP_20, the problem is still there
16:36:18  <Ammler> it is not the sum I fear, it is more like Terken said, the amount of parts combined
16:42:44  <Ammler> Yexo: is it possible to let nml ignore the error and generate the nfo?
16:44:08  <Yexo> yes, by commenting out the line that raises the error
16:44:15  <Yexo> around line 100 in nml/actions/
16:44:24  <MinchinWeb> it's more than just the number of parts...if I comment out the names (so it's just the structure) my file compiles
16:44:35  <Terkhen> I reckon that openttd will not like that grf
16:45:06  <planetmaker> MinchinWeb, set every name to probability 1 ;-)
16:45:17  <planetmaker> in the big lists
16:45:22  <planetmaker> or maybe 1 and 2 or so
16:46:02  <MinchinWeb> ick...I've spent a week coming up with the numbers
16:46:15  <planetmaker> :-)
16:46:36  <planetmaker> well, you really use very fine-grained probabilities in many cases. That might be just a bit too much
16:46:39  <MinchinWeb> *sigh*
16:46:46  <Terkhen> keep a backup just in case
16:46:53  <Terkhen> until
16:46:58  <Terkhen> we figure what is happening :P
16:47:39  <planetmaker> of course keep a backup
16:49:05  <planetmaker> but you can only find out which are the most troublesome by testing a few changes
16:50:14  <Ammler> use mercurial to keep history :-)
16:51:32  <Ammler> if you comment out the error, for me it isn't logical, why it needs that many bits in the final nfo
16:51:59  <Ammler> the issues start on the final parts
16:52:36  <MinchinWeb> ok, so I put the probabilities of all the names in GROUP_20 and GROUP_20_1 to 1 and I still get the error
16:53:05  <Yexo> the problem is not only GROUP_20 and GROUP_20_1
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16:53:13  <planetmaker> well. Then it might rather be that number of towns combined with the amount of groups
16:53:33  <Yexo> each group needs their own random bits and they are not allowed to clash with random bits from sub-groups
16:54:02  <Yexo> group PATH_IJ for example has two sub-blocks, block PATH_I and PATH_J with probabilities 118 and 4
16:54:14  <Ammler> Yexo: so a main group needs to supply the sum of the subgroups?
16:54:19  <Yexo> 118+4=122 -> round to next power of 2 -> 128
16:54:27  <Yexo> so it needs 7 random bits for PATH_IJ alone
16:55:06  <Yexo> now PATH_IJ is included by PATH_GHIJ. PATH_GHIJ: sum=43, round up: 64, so 6 random bits
16:55:08  <Ammler> that is not how I have done the town nfo, but well :-)
16:55:39  <Yexo> PATH_GHIJ is included by PATH_A_J. PATH_A_J: sum:175, round up: 256, so 8 random bits
16:55:47  <Ammler> I defined every part alone
16:55:53  <Yexo> for those 3 groups you already need 21 random bits
16:55:59  <MinchinWeb> so the 7 bit for PATH_IJ and the 7 bits of PATH_GH -- do they add or stand seperately?
16:56:01  <Yexo> so it'll be easy to get to 32 bits that way
16:56:17  <Ammler> the question is, is it necessary?
16:56:23  <Yexo> the bits for PATH_GH and PATH_IJ stand seperately because neither includes the other
16:57:41  <Yexo> also please note that nml gives the error about too many bits needed as soon as it encounters that, it doesn't continue to parse the complete file to see how many bits are actually needed
16:57:43  <MinchinWeb> I need to run and get some things for supper but I'll leave this up (in cse someone finds an answer)...
16:57:53  <MinchinWeb> thanks for all your help so far :)
16:58:02  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature Request #2445 (New): Define separate station class for tiles (planetmaker) @
16:58:06  <Yexo> the answer is: lower your probabilities, especially in the blocks with only two references
16:58:30  <Yexo> 89 / 86 -> 8 random bits, but 1 / 1 has nearly the same effect and needs only 1 random bit
16:58:51  <planetmaker> :-D
16:58:55  <Yexo> 118 / 4 -> 7 random bits. 30 / 1 -> 5 random bits
17:03:01  <Ammler> text("", 127)	<-- necessary?
17:03:08  <Yexo> MinchinWeb: <- the actual amount of random bits needed for each group including subgroups
17:03:24  <Yexo> as you can see your nml file actually needs 56 bits instead of the available 32 bits
17:07:43  <planetmaker> GROUP_10 and GROUP_10_1 could probably be cut down to much less bits each
17:08:04  <planetmaker> On the cost of higher probability for the 's or "" names, but...
17:09:17  <Yexo> GROUP_20 / GROUP_20_1 can be handled somewhat more efficient by nml
17:09:30  <Yexo> but I really have to go now, I'll take another look later this evening
17:09:53  <planetmaker> enjoy
17:18:51  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r743 to r750 done (6 errors) -
17:19:08  <Brot6> chips: update from r69 to r78 done -
17:20:13  <Brot6> firs: update from r1857 to r1858 done -
17:20:26  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r825), heqs (r580), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r29), newgrf_makefile
17:20:26  <Brot6> (ERROR r263), nml (r1286), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r224), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r618), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:21:07  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of r263 still failed (#2435) -
17:28:02  <Ammler> planetmaker: revert the nfoheader does not solve the issue, it just hides the error a bit better
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17:28:42  <Ammler> you still got 2 nfo headers in the final nfo
17:32:57  <planetmaker> yes. That's why I did not revert it
17:36:52  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2435: DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:36:52  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2435: DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:36:52  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2435: DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:37:13  <Ammler> just learned, not possible to upload attachmenet with "#" in it
17:38:51  <planetmaker> :-)
18:04:16  <MinchinWeb> Thanks Yexo for the bits things...I'll see what I can do
18:16:07  <Lakie> As stated just drop lines 1-5 of sprites/nfo/header.pnfo...
18:22:40  <Lakie> With such I feel the rest such as must be line one aren't so true anymore which might need tweeking, but I suppose it depends on what solution you decide on.
18:24:48  <Lakie> I see few: - keep the nfo header with just the text and the first sprite must be sprite count defined by the nfo author, (as previously), - move the spritecount into nfo header and drop nfo details from the pnfos in sprites/ (like I have done in finnish), - remove the nfor header and stop gcc? generating the # lines.
18:26:42  <planetmaker> the generation of the # lines is not really possible except by post-processing
18:26:48  <planetmaker> and IMHO they're helpful
18:26:53  <Lakie> That they are
18:27:02  <Lakie> I was just listing the options I see.
18:27:08  <planetmaker> sure :-)
18:28:33  <planetmaker> considering that also OpenGFX uses the makefile(s), I'd like a solution where this is easy to apply. Which mostly means the sprite count being defined by the nfo author...
18:29:34  <Lakie> Maybe, I feel if sprite count is in the header all the pnfos should contain are pseduo/real sprites
18:29:47  <Lakie> Which might be easier, hard to say really
18:31:45  <planetmaker> is the sprite count not a pseudo sprite?
18:32:00  <Lakie> It is, but its not really a proper one?
18:32:12  <Lakie> I meant the normal action data and such
18:32:53  <Lakie> But in fairness I don't know much about the opengfx projects structure to comment on it
18:32:54  <Lakie> :(
18:34:49  <Lakie> But from my normal nfo perspective, its something only needed once and renum rewrites it to the correct sprite count anyway, so I feel theres no harm in not having the nfo author deal with it.
18:38:01  <Lakie> Ok, I'll be quiet now, up to you and Ammler on how you think it should be solved. :)
18:41:28  <planetmaker> oh, please don't :-)
18:41:52  <planetmaker> the argument could also be made that base sets are special and c/should then just modify their nfoheader.pnfo
18:42:44  <planetmaker> possibly it's even a much more valid argument. Who other than OpenGFX uses that?
18:42:55  <planetmaker> I see no other base set surfacing soon
18:44:08  <Lakie> I don't think there are any other basee sets?
18:44:19  <Lakie> Partly because of the amount of sprites needed
18:44:28  <planetmaker> yep
18:44:59  <Lakie> So it needs to write its own sprite counts?
18:45:21  <Lakie> I'm assuming it doesn't go through nforenum then?
18:47:35  <Ammler> I already uploaded a fix
18:47:53  <Ammler> (just removed the header from the nfo
18:48:22  <planetmaker> Lakie: base sets don#t need a sprite count. But nforenum parses them just fine
18:48:43  <Lakie> Oh ok,. unusual
18:48:44  <planetmaker> it knows about base sets (trg1r.grf and friends)
18:49:28  <Lakie> So we have the issue that most grfs need it but special ones don't, maybe use a defineor something to drop it if a base set tag is defined?
18:50:09  <Lakie> Although that could be messy, not sure really.
18:50:40  <planetmaker> they have no action8. Only real and re-colour sprites
18:51:27  <Lakie> Well, Action8 shouldn't be in nfo header anyway. :)
18:54:23  <Lakie> I'm not sure whats the best solution, sorry. :(
18:54:38  <Lakie> Anyway got to go out for a few hours, bye.
18:55:13  <planetmaker> ciao
18:55:13  <Rubidium> there is the 32bpp crappy zoom base set thingy, isn't there?
18:55:32  <Lakie> Doesn't that work in cojuntion with a base set though?
18:55:33  <planetmaker> hm, probably, yes
18:55:43  <planetmaker> not sure how far they really got
18:55:49  <Rubidium> Lakie: they complain that the sprite numbers sometimes change
18:56:00  <Lakie> Since the images need to be in a tar?
18:56:18  <Rubidium> no, because the filename = the sprite number
18:56:32  <Lakie> Ok
18:56:37  <planetmaker> Rubidium: but that's mostly complaining about the extra newgrf
18:56:49  <planetmaker> which is not constant. The other 5 pretty much are
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19:25:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: any particular station class you'd prefer?
19:25:48  <andythenorth> otherwise it'll be "CHIPS"
19:26:22  <Rubidium> booh :(
19:26:32  <Rubidium> the #openttdcoop server still haven't upgraded
19:28:34  <frosch123> there was also no bug report for 26 hours. probably ottd crashes on start up and noone bothers reporting the obvious :p
19:37:52  <planetmaker> hm. we should
19:57:47  <Ammler> what's new? :-)
19:59:02  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Bug #2446 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
20:00:18  <frosch123> Ammler: the revision number is higher than 22250 now
20:02:12  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r to r22255 done (80770 errors) -
20:05:36  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r to r22255 done (80765 errors) -
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20:38:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: I finished your start :-P
20:39:49  <planetmaker> my 'start'?
20:40:00  <planetmaker> oh, the update
20:40:05  <planetmaker> thanks
20:40:54  <frosch123> he, there is a 'Studie "Wirtschaftssimulation"' server below yours :p
20:41:36  <planetmaker> :-D
20:41:52  <frosch123> the grfs used are frightening though
20:42:13  <frosch123> where are all those single-aircraft grfs from though :o
20:43:57  <Ammler> tt-ms?
20:47:06  <Rubidium> Ammler: there's a massive "rework" of window invalidation that had to be backported to 1.1 as well, so it would be nice to get it somewhat tested before the (hopefully) last RC
20:47:50  <frosch123> in other words, we broke 1.1 completely and would like to know if it is at least somewhat playable :p
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21:37:56  <LordAro> moin
21:38:39  <LordAro> perhaps i'll get more luck here: would this work?
21:40:12  <Ammler> LordAro: use hg parent --template="{rev}" if you don't want the "+"
21:41:49  <LordAro> hmm, i just want to add 96 to the previously-got number... :S
21:42:21  <SmatZ> Rubidium / frosch123: currently, r22255 (of trunk) is being played at public server
21:42:53  <SmatZ> how meaningful would it be to run 1.1 branch there instead?
21:43:34  <Ammler> well, we run .stable for testing 1.1
21:43:52  <SmatZ> Ammler: yeah, but only RCs :)
21:44:22  <Ammler> we would need a release of 1.1
21:44:37  <frosch123> SmatZ: trunk and 1.1 branch is basically the same
21:44:41  <Ammler> there are no 1.1 nightlies afaik
21:45:02  <LordAro> Ammler? i have to go in a minute, so would appreciate an answer... ;)
21:45:23  <Ammler> LordAro: I gave you one, I don't know Makefile that well
21:45:32  <Ammler> frosch123: is Makefile guru :-P
21:46:28  <Ammler> with bash, it wouldn't work
21:47:34  <Ammler> there you would use "let rev=$rev+100"
21:48:12  <LordAro> well i'm not/can't use bash :p (on openttdcoop.devzone)
21:48:26  <Ammler> ?
21:48:36  <Ammler> you can use whatever you want
21:48:42  <SmatZ> rm -Rf LordAro
21:49:24  <LordAro> >:(
21:49:27  <LordAro> :p
21:49:46  <Ammler> doesn't Yexo's ai have a example for that already?
21:50:36  <Yexo> no, the admiralai does some computation with the revision number but is does that in squirrel code, not in the makefile
21:51:05  <LordAro> and it doesn't add a number to the repo revision
21:52:12  <planetmaker> LordAro: in Makefiles you can basically use bash. But adding numbers...
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21:52:32  <planetmaker> what Ammler suggests with let might work
21:52:43  <planetmaker> an yes, you can use bash, LordAro
21:53:02  <planetmaker> blub = $(shell whatever commands suit you)
21:53:30  <Ammler> or $[$rev+100]
21:53:46  <Ammler> but that could be bashism
21:53:52  <planetmaker> blub = $(shell echo `[$$rev + 100]`) might work.
21:54:19  * Ammler would just set shell to bash then ;-)
21:54:50  <frosch123> Ammler: are you confusing me with pm or rb?
21:55:16  <LordAro> ammler/planetmaker: like this?
21:55:18  <Ammler> frosch123: no, you were active right then :-P
21:55:55  <planetmaker> LordAro: easiest would be to try it out ;-)
21:56:02  <Ammler> LordAro: and set shell to bash to avoid bashism
21:56:54  <Ammler> (sh != bash)
21:57:31  <LordAro> Ammler: so another variable called shell2 or something?
21:57:39  <Ammler> no
21:57:55  <Ammler> use bash as shell
21:58:07  <LordAro> i g2g :(
21:58:14  <Ammler> in most cases sh is bash anyway
21:58:32  <LordAro> can you pm me with roughly what to do?
21:58:48  <LordAro> i'm struggling to understand the makefile fanioz has given to me :)
21:58:49  <Ammler> did you try your paste?
21:59:03  <Ammler> are you able to run make locally?
21:59:17  <LordAro> (as explained before) no admin access == no make :p
21:59:19  <LordAro> :(
21:59:24  <Ammler> I see
21:59:36  <LordAro> bye
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22:01:17  <Ammler> planetmaker: what is the difference in makefile for $ and $$, is that just escaping?
22:03:38  <frosch123> yes, escaping only
22:03:43  <planetmaker> $$ escapes a makefile variable within a shell environment
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22:22:59  <planetmaker> good night
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22:27:15  <Ammler> gute nacht
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