Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th April 2011:
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00:08:24  <Ammler> stupid Brot
00:08:42  <Ammler> anyway, everything seems working again :-D
00:08:52  <Ammler> I am happy and thanks again python guru
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00:10:09  <Ammler> Yexo: my change in more beautiful display:
00:10:19  <Ammler> and good night from my side too
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04:32:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 635:583ca3264b73: Codechange: Also move the arctic wagons in the extra grf to ... (planetmaker) @
04:48:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1914:63999d87f918: Update: Typos in German translation (... (planetmaker) @
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05:58:33  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1915:8cb34b253abd: Add: Italian translation (Snail) (planetmaker) @
06:53:42  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
06:53:47  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
06:54:03  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 116:b1de5190e213: Change: improve appearance of parcels office furth... (andythenorth) @
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06:55:00  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Voyager1) @
07:06:31  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 636:76591e9a67e1: Change: Use the unified NML alignment template also for the ... (planetmaker) @
07:08:16  <andythenorth> morning
07:08:22  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
07:20:37  <Yexo> good morning
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07:22:04  <planetmaker> heya Yexo
07:22:44  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 637:c3454d164fbe: Fix (r636): Wrong template for toyland engines (planetmaker) @
07:27:51  <dihedral> hello :-)
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08:08:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you push per https?
08:08:50  <planetmaker> https
08:08:55  <Ammler> everything should be working again
08:08:57  <planetmaker> so thanks for making it work again :-)
08:08:59  <Ammler> thanks to yexo
08:09:00  <planetmaker> and moin
08:10:07  <Ammler> mäh, indeed good morning to you
08:10:14  <Ammler> (first)
08:11:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: hmm, I thought you can't push over https from work?
08:12:04  <planetmaker> I pushed from my laptop. And I can also push via https from work.
08:12:49  <Ammler> ah ok, never mind :-)
09:02:32  <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 23:be3644a7b332: Fix: add minimum compatible version down to 0 (Ammler) @
09:04:52  <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 24:f79315304a09: Added tag for changeset be3644a7b332 (Ammler) @
09:04:57  <Ammler> ups
09:05:01  <Ammler> wrong version
09:05:07  <Brot6> basecosts: update from 3.2 to done -
09:05:56  <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 25:55c90b5c38a6: Added tag 3.2.1 for changeset f79315304a09 (Ammler) @
09:06:05  <Brot6> basecosts: update from to 3.2.1 done -
09:06:50  <Ammler> somehow I was used to start with 0. :-)
09:07:12  <V453000> something new with basecosts? :)
09:07:56  <Ammler> YES! very nice feature
09:08:26  <Ammler> you should guess from the version bump :-P
09:09:56  <planetmaker> los
09:10:03  <planetmaker> *lol
09:10:09  <planetmaker> but why from 3.2 to
09:10:12  <planetmaker> it's...
09:10:18  <Ammler> check next :-P
09:10:26  <Ammler> and my comments between :-)
09:10:27  <planetmaker> ... a nice tagging spree :-P
09:10:52  <Ammler> it is on bananas btw.
09:11:33  <Ammler> V453000: something you still miss from it?
09:11:55  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (New): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (planetmaker) @
09:12:08  <Ammler> <-- empty
09:12:23  <Yexo> now 3.0 and 3.2.1 are available
09:12:46  <Yexo> I just checked the bananas source and you won't be able to fix this
09:12:59  <Ammler> so grfs without a14 don't have aversion so it can't have a mver?
09:13:12  <Ammler> Yexo: yes, bug of openttd
09:13:13  <planetmaker> hm
09:13:28  <Ammler> or how do you call that :-P
09:13:35  <Yexo> Ammler: a14 has nothing to do with that as banans doesn't check that
09:13:50  <Ammler> yes, I said openttd
09:13:53  <Yexo> it's not a bug in openttd, it's a bug in bananas
09:14:04  <Ammler> no, openttd does check the versions, dosn't?
09:14:08  <Yexo> bananas gives a list of files to openttd, openttd shows all those files
09:14:17  <Yexo> it can't check the version before it downloads them, so it doesn't
09:14:21  <Ammler> but how does bananas hide 3.2?
09:14:41  <Yexo> because as soon as you click "update" and upload a new version it sets the old version to unpublished
09:14:53  <Ammler> and why is 3.0 still there?
09:15:01  <Yexo> something must have gone wrong at that time
09:15:17  <planetmaker> hm... also with av8?
09:15:32  <Yexo> possible, do they have the same grfid?
09:15:41  <Ammler> yes
09:15:45  <Ammler> ah
09:15:45  <Yexo> if so, they should be the same entry and as such the old version should be disabled
09:15:47  <Ammler> av8
09:16:00  * planetmaker checks
09:16:03  <Ammler> grfid should not matter at all at bananas, afaik
09:16:09  <Yexo> it does
09:16:09  <planetmaker> of course
09:16:11  <Ammler> just the entry
09:16:16  <Ammler> really?
09:16:26  <planetmaker> yes, but no two entries may have the same grfid
09:16:27  <Yexo> you can't have two entries with the same grfid
09:17:04  <Ammler> but one entry can have multiple ids
09:17:21  <Yexo> yes
09:17:26  <planetmaker> av8 also has the same grfID
09:20:16  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2504 (New): Don't crash with wrong pw (timeout) (planetmaker) @
09:20:25  <planetmaker> ^ dihedral ;-)
09:22:06  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
09:22:06  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
09:30:28  <Ammler> Yexo: set max version to 0.7, is it gone?
09:30:33  <Ammler> of 3.0
09:30:55  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2505 (New): crash with empty plugin dir (planetmaker) @
09:32:37  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2505 (New): errors with empty plugin dir (planetmaker) @
09:33:14  <Yexo> yes, but openttd 0.7 would still show 2 versions
09:33:28  <Yexo> it's a workaround, not the proper solution
09:33:38  <Yexo> FYI: I've already asked tb to disable the old version
09:34:24  <Yexo> planetmaker: no PW = no admin port -> timeout is correct
09:34:47  <planetmaker> yes, I know :-)
09:34:54  <planetmaker> But the bot should not crash then
09:35:00  <Yexo> true
09:36:16  <dihedral> perfect, thank you planetmaker
09:36:47  <dihedral> "The server has no PW set" <- then the server cannot accept connections to the admin port :-P
09:36:58  <planetmaker> we all know ;-)
09:37:03  <dihedral> pfft
09:37:05  <dihedral> meany :-P
09:37:28  <planetmaker> nah. Startup. wonder. oh, let's set it, try again ;-)
09:37:33  <planetmaker> lazy brag would rather fit :-P
09:38:29  <dihedral> :-D
09:38:56  <dihedral> but i'll follow it anyway and see if i can make it somewhat nicer ;-)
09:38:57  <planetmaker> it's the usual testing behaviour: let's just fire up and see what we get
09:39:19  <planetmaker> and then adopt to ones own need step by step
09:39:44  <dihedral> which is the correct thing to do ;-)
09:39:52  <dihedral> and i am glad someone's doing it :-D
09:40:06  <planetmaker> so... how could I enable logging?
09:40:21  <planetmaker> is there anything I can do with the console meanwhile?
09:40:40  <planetmaker> I see a berry called password... so I guess changing that works, right?
09:40:47  <planetmaker> if I install it
09:44:06  <dihedral> ...
09:44:09  <dihedral> sadly - no
09:44:23  <dihedral> you see a berry named password, with last changes... when?
09:44:33  <planetmaker> dunno... february?
09:44:51  <dihedral> oh - might work, true
09:45:30  <dihedral> i was last trying to get it to read it's own words.txt file
09:45:47  <dihedral> rather than any words.txt file found in any loaded jar ...
09:46:22  <planetmaker> ah, k
09:46:24  <dihedral> if you place the jar in the plugins dir, start grapes and quit it again, you will find a new section in your config file
09:49:25  <planetmaker> indeed
09:50:06  <dihedral> i want a command line parameter though for that purpose, which would run the config stuff and quit automatically ^^
10:22:09  <planetmaker> Ammler:
10:22:11  <planetmaker> [12:21]	TrueBrain	BaseMod_Presets-1.4.2
10:22:13  <planetmaker> [12:21]	TrueBrain	requires BaseMod 3.0
10:22:24  <planetmaker> ^^ that's why
10:56:35  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 134:a7ef90c28081: -Fix: (#2503) Run some checks before trying to use the specif... (dih) @
10:57:26  <dihedral> planetmaker, ^ :-)
10:57:26  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (Closed): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (planetmaker) @
10:57:26  <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (Closed): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (dih) @
10:57:43  <planetmaker> :-)
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11:10:57  <dihedral> planetmaker, that means you need to test it and say if you are happy(er) now :-P
11:11:27  <planetmaker> will do. Later though
11:12:48  <dihedral> ^^
11:25:40  <Ammler> [13:12] <planetmaker> [12:22:13] [12:21] TrueBrain requires BaseMod 3.0 <-- wie mach ich require ohne version?
11:25:55  <Ammler> oh, sorry, was just in a German channel :-P
11:26:14  <Ammler> how do I define a requires without version?
11:30:10  <Ammler> also in the GUI is just dependency BaseMod, no mention of the version
11:31:04  <Ammler> I edited presets and now 3.0 is gone, but the issue will arise again if I will upload another basemode
11:33:21  <Ammler> andythenorth: you can use , if you need typeable link for bananas
11:33:32  <Ammler> then make links to the forums there
11:33:37  <planetmaker> Ammler, there's (currently) no way
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11:34:01  <planetmaker> it'll need a bananas re-work
11:34:11  <andythenorth> Ammler: if I want, I can just use tinyurl
11:34:18  <andythenorth> or I can write my own url shortener
11:34:23  <Ammler> or your
11:34:26  <Ammler> and redirect
11:34:35  <andythenorth> but that doesn't solve the case generally
11:35:00  <andythenorth> planetmaker: obviously it needs work, but in what respects?
11:35:29  <Ammler> and well, the version issue isn't really important
11:35:34  <Ammler> (IMO)
11:35:44  <planetmaker> andythenorth, obviously to that end, that you can a) pick a specific version and b) pick a max or min version as requirement
11:35:51  <andythenorth> ah ok
11:35:58  <Ammler> it is nice to know why, though
11:36:00  <andythenorth> we talk about different things again - my fault :|
11:36:02  <andythenorth> sorry
11:36:07  <planetmaker> and the interface needs re-design. But it's only one of few issues with bananas
11:36:35  <andythenorth> wrt url shorteners, they're not the most complex web app ever
11:36:54  <planetmaker> and they basically make an URL un-rememberable ;-)
11:37:00  <Ammler> I think, the url I pasted above is "enough" short
11:37:07  <planetmaker> tinyurl/blublbla94
11:37:10  <planetmaker> is clear ;-)
11:37:26  <andythenorth> is Ammler's suggestion clear?
11:37:43  <planetmaker> is rememberable
11:37:55  <planetmaker> or
11:37:58  <andythenorth> why do you need to remember it?
11:38:05  <planetmaker> quicker than bookmarks
11:38:13  <andythenorth> the issue at hand is we can't click or copy-and-paste
11:38:16  <andythenorth> but there may be others :P
11:38:21  <planetmaker> I usually type in the first two letters of my frequently - used links, select, done
11:38:49  <planetmaker> the short answer is: tinyURL and similar services are something I find completely useless
11:39:03  <andythenorth> you find this easy to remember?
11:39:03  <andythenorth>
11:39:04  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations (at
11:39:05  <planetmaker> and rather hinder than help
11:39:25  <planetmaker> andythenorth, and how is that better than tinyurl/blubla98 ?
11:39:39  <andythenorth> is it better?
11:39:47  <planetmaker> no. But not worse either
11:39:53  <planetmaker> So no need for an URL re-write
11:40:01  <planetmaker> which is another layer which can also break
11:40:09  <andythenorth> I agree with that
11:40:16  <andythenorth> it's a sticking plaster on a fundamental problem
11:40:37  <andythenorth> but two of the available solutions are ruled out
11:40:48  <andythenorth> are you ruling out a third?
11:40:54  <andythenorth> there is a fourth...
11:41:20  <andythenorth> do nothing
11:44:06  <andythenorth> - copy and paste urls
11:44:10  <andythenorth> - clickable urls
11:44:17  <andythenorth> - easy to type urls
11:44:20  <andythenorth> - do nothing
11:44:23  <andythenorth> - remove url field
11:44:29  <andythenorth> any other ideas?
11:46:05  <Ammler> andythenorth: I didn't suggest shorter url, I suggested "typeable" url
11:46:25  <andythenorth> Ammler: ^ see what I wrote above ;)
11:46:28  <Ammler> is quite easy to type or remember
11:46:29  <andythenorth> you were quite right
11:47:11  <Ammler> it is stupid to have tt-forums links on bananas
11:47:21  <Ammler> they are useless
11:47:30  <Ammler> but not the link I suggsted
11:47:41  * andythenorth thinks it's probably trivial to do it at
11:47:53  <andythenorth> the content item already has some kind of entry or id
11:47:58  <andythenorth> we already store the url
11:48:09  * andythenorth is not experienced with django, but has an inkling
11:48:19  <Ammler> andythenorth: no need there
11:48:27  <Ammler> the issue is at openttd client
11:48:37  <Ammler> and not solveable
11:48:45  <andythenorth> in what respect?
11:48:50  <Ammler> so you _need_ to use typeable url
11:49:04  <andythenorth> yes
11:49:08  <andythenorth> but that could be supplied
11:49:10  <Ammler> you wont be able to make a clickable link on openttd
11:49:27  <andythenorth> the openttd client just shows whatever the db tells it for that field value, yes / no?
11:49:34  <andythenorth> Ammler: the point is 'easy to type' yes / no?
11:49:34  <Ammler> yes
11:49:36  <andythenorth> not clickable
11:49:40  <Ammler> yes
11:49:53  <Ammler> tt-forums links aren't
11:49:54  <andythenorth> if clickable was achievable, we wouldn't need workarounds
11:50:19  <Ammler> but that is impossible in the near future
11:50:50  <andythenorth> hence need for workaround (or do nothing)
11:51:09  <Ammler> using a typeable url isn't a workaround, is it?
11:51:15  <planetmaker> the only solution is OS-specific code to open an URL. I figure it IS possible. Just... feels not ideal
11:51:32  <planetmaker> My personal guess, though, is that it will be the solution to come, if at all
11:51:39  <Ammler> planetmaker: why is that not ideal?
11:51:48  <Ammler> you have other places with os specific code
11:51:52  <planetmaker> you can't handle that for all OS and setups error-free
11:52:15  <Ammler> you already allow paste on windows while you don't on linux
11:54:20  <planetmaker> it's one-thing to have things OS-specific. Another to have them system-configuration-specific
11:55:18  <Ammler> hmm, example?
11:55:38  <planetmaker> the actual browser to call, is configured by the user and different for every computer
11:55:50  <planetmaker> the API for accessing the clipboard is os-specific
11:56:15  <planetmaker> and indeed, doesn't work for me for linux either
11:56:33  <Ammler> ok, I thought, you can just somehow send the url to the os, which then decides which app to use for it
11:58:26  <Ammler> still a info windows which shows a rst formatted textfile might be enough
11:58:32  <planetmaker> I don't think so. But...
11:58:37  * andythenorth would take the workaround for now
11:58:41  <andythenorth> it would make it suck less
11:58:51  <Ammler> what is "the workaround"?
11:58:57  <andythenorth> otoh, if it was left in a high level of 'this sucks', maybe someone will fix it :P
11:59:08  <andythenorth> Ammler: the workaround is easier-to-type url
11:59:33  <Ammler> yeah, I see...
12:00:17  <andythenorth> basically I don't see it as complicated
12:00:43  <andythenorth> instead returning the current url, we instead return an easy-to-type url to a page on bananas
12:00:45  <Ammler> there are btw. also shorten links providers with offer customizing of the url hash
12:01:03  <andythenorth> this can all be done automatically
12:01:09  <Ammler> like
12:01:13  <andythenorth> indeed
12:01:34  <Ammler> but it is hard to find something not used
12:01:38  <Ammler> like firs is gone
12:02:11  <andythenorth> which is why I originally suggested adding our own shortener :P
12:02:17  <andythenorth> but I don't think that's needed
12:02:28  <Ammler> well, if you want, we can host it for you :-P
12:03:00  <Ammler> no limits for the software you want to use ;-)
12:03:02  <andythenorth> this would need to be in bananas
12:03:03  <andythenorth> currently each content item on bananas has various views, e.g. 'manage' and 'download'
12:03:12  <andythenorth> all that's needed is a 'view' view
12:03:16  <andythenorth> at
12:03:22  <andythenorth> for each item
12:03:27  <Ammler> bananas could use a details page
12:03:29  <andythenorth> it's not exactly complicated
12:03:38  <andythenorth> it's like adding some of what grf-crawler did
12:03:48  <andythenorth> I used to write web apps like that all day long
12:03:58  <andythenorth> except with slightly fewer arguments :P
12:04:08  <andythenorth> and I don't know much django
12:04:23  <andythenorth> but pyramid is django like in some areas, and I need to learn pyramid...
12:04:34  <andythenorth> so maybe I learn more django
12:05:09  <Ammler> the short url could use the grf file name without .grf
12:05:19  <andythenorth> maybe
12:05:23  <andythenorth> some of them suck :D
12:05:26  <andythenorth> have a look...
12:05:30  <Ammler> so you don't need a config option
12:05:35  <andythenorth>
12:05:44  <andythenorth>
12:05:47  <Ammler> well, and without version
12:06:13  <Ammler> still not that hard to type
12:06:17  <andythenorth> numeric IDs or alphabetical IDs are not hard to type either
12:06:18  <andythenorth> 12345
12:06:20  <andythenorth> AAB
12:06:23  <andythenorth> BDEF
12:06:23  <Ammler> they are
12:06:42  <Ammler> you can't remember those
12:06:47  <andythenorth> 3 letters gives us > 17,000 unique trailing url elements
12:06:51  <andythenorth> you can't remember ABC?
12:06:55  <Ammler> so you can't type those like you type this chat :-)
12:07:08  <andythenorth> hmm
12:07:13  <Ammler> I can't rember if ABC is firs or fish
12:07:25  <Ammler> I think, firs or fish is easier to remeber for those
12:07:26  <andythenorth> I don't know why anybody needs to remember :(
12:07:38  <Ammler> why is firs for firs bad?
12:07:38  <andythenorth> how will you remember luukland_special_event
12:07:39  <andythenorth> ?
12:07:46  <andythenorth> firs is an easy case ;)
12:07:50  <andythenorth> look for the hard case
12:07:57  <Ammler> why is swisstowns for swisstowns bad?
12:08:10  <Ammler> or 2cctrainset for 2cctrainset?
12:08:21  <Ammler> or nars or...
12:08:30  <andythenorth>
12:08:46  <Ammler> well, why do you care about such?
12:08:52  <andythenorth>
12:08:59  <Ammler> you really think, those should rule how a url needs to look?
12:09:03  <andythenorth> need them to be easy to type
12:09:11  <Ammler> andythenorth: I said file name
12:09:17  <andythenorth> ah ha
12:09:21  <Ammler> not title or whatever
12:09:33  <Ammler> filename without extension
12:09:40  <andythenorth> so the use case is that you have openttd open, you're looking at the content download window
12:09:45  <andythenorth> you also have a browser open, and you're just trying to type something simple
12:09:52  <andythenorth> I'm not bothered about memorable
12:10:04  <andythenorth> if you want to find it, look at it in-game, or go visit the bananas page and browser
12:10:08  <andythenorth> or use your bookmarks
12:10:12  <andythenorth> or a bookmark service
12:10:17  <andythenorth> or autocomplete from history
12:10:26  <andythenorth> that's 5 options to solve that problem ;)
12:10:36  <Ammler> rembemberable means alos typeable
12:10:40  <andythenorth> I agree
12:10:47  <andythenorth> but short-term memorable is the most important
12:10:50  <Ammler> a hash isn't typeable
12:11:39  <Ammler> well, then you could add a textfield to bananas, where someone can change the shorturl to something else
12:11:47  <Ammler> and it uses the filename per default
12:12:07  <andythenorth> true
12:12:24  <Ammler> the problem is that bananas uses that ugly title
12:12:28  <andythenorth> indeed
12:12:32  <andythenorth> but that's solvable
12:12:45  <andythenorth> we allow customers to create these type of urls in some apps we have
12:13:05  <Ammler> that is 2 times ugly, first it isn't the title from action8 and second well, it can be nonascii
12:13:14  <andythenorth> he
12:13:37  <andythenorth> for easy-to-type I'd limit to a-z and 0-9
12:13:44  <andythenorth> no dash, no underscore or other punctuation
12:13:53  <Ammler> dash is fine
12:13:58  <andythenorth> em-dash
12:13:58  <Ammler> you need a delimeter
12:13:59  <andythenorth> ok
12:14:08  <andythenorth> easier than underscore, no shift key needed
12:14:16  <Ammler> _ is bad
12:14:20  <andythenorth> developer type underscores all day, no-one else knows what it is
12:14:26  <andythenorth> and it's easily confused with a space or underline
12:14:44  <Ammler> yep
12:15:18  <andythenorth> if it's user-specifiable, it needs error handling, in case pattern is already taken
12:15:32  <Ammler> well, _ are banned long time ago from good codestyle, I thought
12:15:38  <andythenorth> ho
12:15:41  <andythenorth> not mine :(
12:15:48  <andythenorth> they waste a lot of my time
12:15:50  <Ammler> youUseCaseStyleToday, afaik
12:16:06  <andythenorth> I prefer very_long_names_with_underscores_everywhere
12:16:19  <andythenorth> anyway
12:16:23  <andythenorth> this would be resolvable
12:16:26  <Ammler> on filenames, I use dots
12:16:35  <Ammler> movies or mp3
12:16:56  <andythenorth> I had bananas checked out somewhere
12:16:58  <andythenorth> wonder where
12:17:01  <andythenorth> it got moved iirc?
12:17:13  <Ammler> newgrf got moved
12:17:20  <Ammler> openttd.grf I meant
12:17:32  <andythenorth> ok
12:17:54  <Ammler> it should be a branch outside trunk
12:18:16  <Ammler>
12:18:43  <andythenorth> thanks
12:19:03  <andythenorth> no idea how to get a dev environment for that :(
12:19:11  <andythenorth> guess if I had django running, that would help
12:19:14  <Ammler> KDE kate :-P
12:19:23  <andythenorth> I mean a local instance of the app ;)
12:19:27  <Ammler> you wanna a server?
12:19:30  <andythenorth> as I obviously can't test live
12:19:32  <andythenorth> yes
12:19:38  <Ammler> which distro?
12:19:44  <andythenorth> no idea
12:19:47  <dihedral> kate! \o/
12:19:54  <andythenorth> I could just run locally on my laptop
12:20:00  <dihedral> a bit of love life for the KDE people :-D
12:20:06  <andythenorth> if I can figure out how to fire up django
12:20:07  <andythenorth> can't be hard
12:20:23  <Ammler> well, whatever fits you, if you like to use a server, just tell me the specs you need
12:20:27  <andythenorth> thanks
12:21:06  <Ammler> are the appliances for it?
12:21:14  <andythenorth> maybe
12:21:15  <andythenorth> dunno
12:22:00  <andythenorth> bananas *is* django yes/no?
12:23:00  <andythenorth> gah
12:23:07  <andythenorth> I have to setup mysql again
12:23:46  <Yexo> yes
12:23:54  <andythenorth> how do I find out my python versions
12:23:59  <andythenorth> I have multiple
12:24:01  <Yexo> python --version ?
12:24:10  <Yexo> ls /bin/python* ?
12:24:41  <andythenorth> locate python gave me enough answers :)
12:25:23  <andythenorth> looks like 2.4 is default on my box
12:25:36  <andythenorth> I have 2.5 and 2.6 but I don't want to spend all day fighting path issues :|
12:26:11  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
12:26:11  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Downloads log: | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames"
12:26:34  <Ammler> andythenorth: so shall I setup you a nice "whatever Linux" you can play with like it is local?
12:26:46  <andythenorth> only if it's very easy for you
12:26:55  <andythenorth> wait to see if I get across the 'bored now' threshold first
12:27:01  <andythenorth> I might find I can't even remotely fix this
12:27:21  <Ammler> well, it depends if I need to do more than simply setup the vps :-)
12:27:35  <andythenorth> I think the basic change to bananas is trivial
12:27:47  <andythenorth> step 1. add a 'view on a content item' view
12:27:55  <andythenorth> 2. render some stuff there
12:28:19  <andythenorth> including the url field stored in the db
12:28:24  <Ammler> I have a quite nice "deploy" system for devzone, which failed yesterday :-P
12:28:26  <andythenorth> 3. return a different url to the game
12:28:51  <andythenorth> Ammler: if you do setup a server, it has the advantage that others could give opinions / make fixes
12:28:58  <andythenorth> can't do that on my box
12:29:41  <andythenorth> 'bananas dev instance'
12:30:07  <Ammler> well, setup the server is easy
12:30:20  <Ammler>  the issue is to have a testing version of the website
12:30:39  <Ammler> I guess, simply clone won't be enough
12:30:49  <andythenorth> you'd need a drop of database(s)
12:30:50  <planetmaker> that guess unfortunately is right
12:31:05  <andythenorth> you also need to consider any apache magic
12:31:22  <Ammler> e.g. for the testing env of devzone, I simply run dbsync before I work with testing
12:31:26  <andythenorth> hmm
12:31:38  <andythenorth> my proposed change needs no new data
12:31:49  <andythenorth> just a change to url dispatch + a new view
12:32:21  <andythenorth> Ammler: see if someone will give you a db drop...
12:32:25  <Ammler> I assume, this wouldn't be the last feature you add :-P
12:32:45  <Ammler> so a testing webpage of might not be the worst
12:32:48  <planetmaker> hm... so a bananas playground & testing server?
12:33:07  <planetmaker> has a complete testing copy of it, though
12:33:33  <planetmaker> but... is not widely accessible ;-)
12:34:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: treat that one as a staging server
12:34:35  <andythenorth> dev server is a bit more...volatile
12:34:46  <andythenorth> ;)
12:34:50  <planetmaker> staging server is a good name indeed
12:35:07  <Ammler> really? :-P
12:35:10  <andythenorth> dev -> staging -> production
12:35:13  <andythenorth> is a standard pattern
12:35:15  <andythenorth> there are others
12:35:25  <Ammler> is staging of devzone
12:35:41  <Ammler> I can simply pull that from
12:36:39  <Ammler> productive: stage:
12:37:08  <andythenorth> hmm
12:37:30  <andythenorth> does django encourage method/object or object/method ?
12:38:29  <Ammler> anyway, if you want me to setup such stage (testing) server, ping me, I (We?) do not really care... ;-)
12:40:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you would commit something to extra/website, is that public or does that need another action?
12:43:32  <Yexo> it needs another action
12:43:36  <Yexo> current live is not in the repo
12:46:55  <Ammler> Yexo: so maybe someone could setup a stage server wich uses those
12:47:19  <Ammler> and then andy makes patches for you and you don't need to fear to break live
12:47:37  <Ammler> maybe even give andy commit right to that branch :-)
12:48:32  <Yexo> yes, only I can't do that
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12:50:29  <Ammler> I just think, it would be easist to have stage server with same db data or a sync
12:51:00  <Ammler> so it would be easist to have that on
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13:12:03  <MinchinWeb> how do you get the little bar that allows you to break the AI on a certain text?
13:12:37  <Yexo> "set ai_developer 1" in the console
13:12:43  <Yexo> or in your config file
13:13:54  <MinchinWeb> it comes back "'ai developer' is unknown setting"
13:14:03  <MinchinWeb> I'm running 1.1
13:14:51  <Yexo> oh, it's ai_developer_tools
13:15:28  <MinchinWeb> sweet
13:15:38  <MinchinWeb> does that do anything else?
13:16:27  <Yexo> currently not
13:16:50  <Yexo> it might enable additional tools if any become available in the future
13:18:03  <MinchinWeb> ok thanks
13:22:05  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
13:22:05  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
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14:18:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (New): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @
14:24:52  <Ammler> why is that an issue of opengfx?
14:25:15  <planetmaker> For old(er) versions
14:25:20  <Ammler> is there no equalizer on the original ttd graphcis?
14:25:21  <planetmaker> (of openttd)
14:25:25  <planetmaker> there is
14:25:39  <planetmaker> but it never had function, at least within openttd
14:25:58  <Ammler> well, so why not remove it from openttd?
14:26:10  <planetmaker> Also, yes
14:26:12  <Ammler> so also standard set would be "fixed"?
14:26:37  <planetmaker> But when people play older OpenTTD versions, OpenGFX could solve that confusion by not showing an equalizer there
14:27:34  <Ammler> I see :-)
14:28:12  <Ammler> so you make the equalizer button size 0x0 and it isn't clickable anymore, right?
14:31:13  <planetmaker> it was never clickable
14:31:39  <planetmaker> I'd not make it 0x0; it's the spacer between two widgets and has a hard-coded minimum size of 20x16 or so
14:31:50  <planetmaker> but... it could be an empty gray piece or so
14:32:19  <planetmaker> patch attached, will look at OpenGFX patch later at home (and use that patch on trunk)
14:32:23  <Ammler> ah, it is the volume controler?
14:32:36  <planetmaker> it's between the two volume controler
14:32:57  <Ammler> hmm, volume controller has no effect?
14:33:02  <planetmaker> that does
14:33:10  <planetmaker> but not the (graphical) equalizer
14:34:24  <planetmaker> so it's a thing which pretends to be something it never has been... hm, I wonder whether it actually HAS a sprite...
14:34:50  <Ammler> hmm
14:35:00  <Ammler> I never saw that as disturbing
14:35:06  <Ammler> it is eyecandy
14:35:31  <Ammler> did that really work on original TTD?
14:35:38  <planetmaker> well, is. But... can be confusing :-) You and I know it for years. But someone new might see it indeed as bug, if it's just a fake instrument
14:35:47  <planetmaker> I don't know. Crashes always for me
14:36:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: I diagree on removing
14:36:11  <planetmaker> a no-function thingy?
14:36:13  <Ammler> I thought, there is a dummy equalizer
14:36:21  <Ammler> the function is eyecandy
14:36:34  <Ammler> shall I check TTD?
14:36:35  <planetmaker> controls should be clear, not eye candy
14:36:36  <Ammler> to be sure
14:36:43  <planetmaker> please do :-)
14:37:22  <planetmaker> But independent of that we should not keep confusing controls ;-)
14:39:37  <planetmaker> IMHO the only other option is to actually give it some meaning
14:39:48  <planetmaker> which is... MUCH more difficult ;-)
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14:41:25  <Ammller> music seems not to work on ttdpatch but the equalizer is empty there
14:41:35  <Ammller> on my ttdpatch
14:41:39  <planetmaker> he
14:41:56  <planetmaker> in openttd the game draws explicitly some colour-bars. hard-coded
14:42:16  <Ammller> so it was intended
14:42:23  <Ammller> or is :-)
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14:43:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (Rejected): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @
14:43:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (Rejected): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @
14:44:41  <Ammler> sound works, no idea why my wine ttdp doesn't play music
14:45:11  <Ammler> gm files are there too
14:46:53  * planetmaker doesn't either
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17:12:38  <Hirundo> andythenorth: Can I enable secondary industry closing mid-game without side effects?
17:13:13  <andythenorth> you get the side effect that industry might close ;)
17:13:37  <Hirundo> That's not a side effect, that's intentional
17:14:19  <Hirundo> the only flat area on the map is getting a bit flooded with dozens of secondaries I don't need
17:15:16  <Hirundo> Which is annoying because it makes building 4 track mainlines harder
17:15:41  <Hirundo> Besides, it looks silly
17:17:50  <Brot6> basecosts: update from r22 to r25 done -
17:18:12  <Brot6> chips: update from r114 to r116 done (2 errors) -
17:19:13  <Brot6> firs: update from r1912 to r1915 done (1 errors) -
17:20:24  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r634 to r637 done -
17:20:37  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r25), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (ERROR r24), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r604), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset
17:20:37  <Brot6> (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r266), nml (ERROR r1307), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
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18:58:13  <MinchinWeb> anyone here with NoAI experience?
18:58:46  <MinchinWeb> I get an error on 'AIBridgeList_Lenght' after upgrading to OpenTTD 1.1
18:58:57  <MinchinWeb> (in my AI, it worked fine before)
19:52:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2455: Updated Polish translation. (planetmaker) @
20:03:32  <Yexo> MinchinWeb: what error do you get?
20:03:54  <Yexo> is it easy to reproduce? if so, how?
20:05:18  <MinchinWeb> it's real easy :)  three typos in one line
20:05:59  <MinchinWeb> local BridgeList = AIBridgeList_Lenght(AILap.Manhattan(Path.GetTile(), SubPath.GetTile() + 1));
20:06:34  <MinchinWeb> thanks for asking
20:06:52  <Yexo> sure, I hadn't read the backlog of #openttd yet
20:07:02  <MinchinWeb> no worries
20:07:18  <MinchinWeb> do you use an IRC client?
20:07:37  <Yexo> yes
20:07:41  <Yexo> XChat
20:10:48  <MinchinWeb> ok  cool
20:11:34  <MinchinWeb> on another note, when a company goes bankrupt, are their (road) bridge and tunnels supposed to disappear? the rest of their roads stay...
20:13:48  <Yexo> yes, bridges and tunnels are owned by a company so they disappear
20:13:55  <Yexo> that makes for a nasty surprise for road AIs
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20:19:10  <MinchinWeb> thus far I've just seen it on the minimap when my first AI goes bankrupt and the second comes along and rebuilds the missing bridge, etc
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