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00:06:42 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 00:06:54 *** Brot6_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 00:07:42 *** Brot6_ is now known as Brot6 00:08:12 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 00:08:24 <Ammler> stupid Brot 00:08:42 <Ammler> anyway, everything seems working again :-D 00:08:52 <Ammler> I am happy and thanks again python guru 00:08:57 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 00:10:09 <Ammler> Yexo: my change in more beautiful display: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/hgredmine/rev/05937604af87 00:10:19 <Ammler> and good night from my side too 03:48:44 *** supermop has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:32:40 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 635:583ca3264b73: Codechange: Also move the arctic wagons in the extra grf to ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/583ca3264b73 04:48:57 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1914:63999d87f918: Update: Typos in German translation (... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/63999d87f918 05:03:54 *** supermop has quit IRC 05:13:58 *** V4530000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:17:39 *** V453000 has quit IRC 05:17:39 *** V4530000 is now known as V453000 05:58:33 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1915:8cb34b253abd: Add: Italian translation (Snail) (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/8cb34b253abd 06:53:42 <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 06:53:47 <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 06:54:03 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 116:b1de5190e213: Change: improve appearance of parcels office furth... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/b1de5190e213 06:54:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:55:00 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56#change-6455 07:06:31 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 636:76591e9a67e1: Change: Use the unified NML alignment template also for the ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/76591e9a67e1 07:08:16 <andythenorth> morning 07:08:22 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth 07:20:37 <Yexo> good morning 07:21:33 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:22:04 <planetmaker> heya Yexo 07:22:44 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 637:c3454d164fbe: Fix (r636): Wrong template for toyland engines (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/c3454d164fbe 07:27:51 <dihedral> hello :-) 07:43:49 *** MinchinWeb has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:08:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you push per https? 08:08:50 <planetmaker> https 08:08:55 <Ammler> everything should be working again 08:08:57 <planetmaker> so thanks for making it work again :-) 08:08:59 <Ammler> thanks to yexo 08:09:00 <planetmaker> and moin 08:10:07 <Ammler> mäh, indeed good morning to you 08:10:14 <Ammler> (first) 08:11:23 <Ammler> planetmaker: hmm, I thought you can't push over https from work? 08:12:04 <planetmaker> I pushed from my laptop. And I can also push via https from work. 08:12:49 <Ammler> ah ok, never mind :-) 09:02:32 <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 23:be3644a7b332: Fix: add minimum compatible version down to 0 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts/repository/revisions/be3644a7b332 09:04:52 <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 24:f79315304a09: Added tag 0.3.2.1 for changeset be3644a7b332 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts/repository/revisions/f79315304a09 09:04:57 <Ammler> ups 09:05:01 <Ammler> wrong version 09:05:07 <Brot6> basecosts: update from 3.2 to 0.3.2.1 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/basecosts/releases/0.3.2.1 09:05:56 <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 25:55c90b5c38a6: Added tag 3.2.1 for changeset f79315304a09 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts/repository/revisions/55c90b5c38a6 09:06:05 <Brot6> basecosts: update from 0.3.2.1 to 3.2.1 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/basecosts/releases/3.2.1 09:06:50 <Ammler> somehow I was used to start with 0. :-) 09:07:12 <V453000> something new with basecosts? :) 09:07:56 <Ammler> YES! very nice feature 09:08:26 <Ammler> you should guess from the version bump :-P 09:09:56 <planetmaker> los 09:10:03 <planetmaker> *lol 09:10:09 <planetmaker> but why from 3.2 to 0.3.2.1? 09:10:12 <planetmaker> it's... 09:10:18 <Ammler> check next :-P 09:10:26 <Ammler> and my comments between :-) 09:10:27 <planetmaker> ... a nice tagging spree :-P 09:10:52 <Ammler> it is on bananas btw. 09:11:33 <Ammler> V453000: something you still miss from it? 09:11:55 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (New): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2503 09:12:08 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts/issues <-- empty 09:12:23 <Yexo> now 3.0 and 3.2.1 are available 09:12:46 <Yexo> I just checked the bananas source and you won't be able to fix this 09:12:59 <Ammler> so grfs without a14 don't have aversion so it can't have a mver? 09:13:12 <Ammler> Yexo: yes, bug of openttd 09:13:13 <planetmaker> hm 09:13:28 <Ammler> or how do you call that :-P 09:13:35 <Yexo> Ammler: a14 has nothing to do with that as banans doesn't check that 09:13:50 <Ammler> yes, I said openttd 09:13:53 <Yexo> it's not a bug in openttd, it's a bug in bananas 09:14:04 <Ammler> no, openttd does check the versions, dosn't? 09:14:08 <Yexo> bananas gives a list of files to openttd, openttd shows all those files 09:14:17 <Yexo> it can't check the version before it downloads them, so it doesn't 09:14:21 <Ammler> but how does bananas hide 3.2? 09:14:41 <Yexo> because as soon as you click "update" and upload a new version it sets the old version to unpublished 09:14:53 <Ammler> and why is 3.0 still there? 09:15:01 <Yexo> something must have gone wrong at that time 09:15:17 <planetmaker> hm... also with av8? 09:15:32 <Yexo> possible, do they have the same grfid? 09:15:41 <Ammler> yes 09:15:45 <Ammler> ah 09:15:45 <Yexo> if so, they should be the same entry and as such the old version should be disabled 09:15:47 <Ammler> av8 09:16:00 * planetmaker checks 09:16:03 <Ammler> grfid should not matter at all at bananas, afaik 09:16:09 <Yexo> it does 09:16:09 <planetmaker> of course 09:16:11 <Ammler> just the entry 09:16:16 <Ammler> really? 09:16:26 <planetmaker> yes, but no two entries may have the same grfid 09:16:27 <Yexo> you can't have two entries with the same grfid 09:17:04 <Ammler> but one entry can have multiple ids 09:17:21 <Yexo> yes 09:17:26 <planetmaker> av8 also has the same grfID 09:20:16 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2504 (New): Don't crash with wrong pw (timeout) (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2504 09:20:25 <planetmaker> ^ dihedral ;-) 09:22:06 <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 09:22:06 <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 09:30:28 <Ammler> Yexo: set max version to 0.7, is it gone? 09:30:33 <Ammler> of 3.0 09:30:55 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2505 (New): crash with empty plugin dir (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2505 09:32:37 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2505 (New): errors with empty plugin dir (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2505 09:33:14 <Yexo> yes, but openttd 0.7 would still show 2 versions 09:33:28 <Yexo> it's a workaround, not the proper solution 09:33:38 <Yexo> FYI: I've already asked tb to disable the old version 09:34:24 <Yexo> planetmaker: no PW = no admin port -> timeout is correct 09:34:47 <planetmaker> yes, I know :-) 09:34:54 <planetmaker> But the bot should not crash then 09:35:00 <Yexo> true 09:36:16 <dihedral> perfect, thank you planetmaker 09:36:47 <dihedral> "The server has no PW set" <- then the server cannot accept connections to the admin port :-P 09:36:58 <planetmaker> we all know ;-) 09:37:03 <dihedral> pfft 09:37:05 <dihedral> meany :-P 09:37:28 <planetmaker> nah. Startup. wonder. oh, let's set it, try again ;-) 09:37:33 <planetmaker> lazy brag would rather fit :-P 09:38:29 <dihedral> :-D 09:38:56 <dihedral> but i'll follow it anyway and see if i can make it somewhat nicer ;-) 09:38:57 <planetmaker> it's the usual testing behaviour: let's just fire up and see what we get 09:39:19 <planetmaker> and then adopt to ones own need step by step 09:39:44 <dihedral> which is the correct thing to do ;-) 09:39:52 <dihedral> and i am glad someone's doing it :-D 09:40:06 <planetmaker> so... how could I enable logging? 09:40:21 <planetmaker> is there anything I can do with the console meanwhile? 09:40:40 <planetmaker> I see a berry called password... so I guess changing that works, right? 09:40:47 <planetmaker> if I install it 09:44:06 <dihedral> ... 09:44:09 <dihedral> sadly - no 09:44:23 <dihedral> you see a berry named password, with last changes... when? 09:44:33 <planetmaker> dunno... february? 09:44:51 <dihedral> oh - might work, true 09:45:30 <dihedral> i was last trying to get it to read it's own words.txt file 09:45:47 <dihedral> rather than any words.txt file found in any loaded jar ... 09:46:22 <planetmaker> ah, k 09:46:24 <dihedral> if you place the jar in the plugins dir, start grapes and quit it again, you will find a new section in your config file 09:49:25 <planetmaker> indeed 09:50:06 <dihedral> i want a command line parameter though for that purpose, which would run the config stuff and quit automatically ^^ 10:22:09 <planetmaker> Ammler: 10:22:11 <planetmaker> [12:21] TrueBrain BaseMod_Presets-1.4.2 10:22:13 <planetmaker> [12:21] TrueBrain requires BaseMod 3.0 10:22:24 <planetmaker> ^^ that's why 10:56:35 <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 134:a7ef90c28081: -Fix: (#2503) Run some checks before trying to use the specif... (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes/repository/revisions/a7ef90c28081 10:57:26 <dihedral> planetmaker, ^ :-) 10:57:26 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (Closed): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2503 10:57:26 <Brot6> Grapes - Bug #2503 (Closed): Don't crash when cfg doesn't exist (dih) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2503#change-6457 10:57:43 <planetmaker> :-) 10:59:36 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:10:57 <dihedral> planetmaker, that means you need to test it and say if you are happy(er) now :-P 11:11:27 <planetmaker> will do. Later though 11:12:48 <dihedral> ^^ 11:25:40 <Ammler> [13:12] <planetmaker> [12:22:13] [12:21] TrueBrain requires BaseMod 3.0 <-- wie mach ich require ohne version? 11:25:55 <Ammler> oh, sorry, was just in a German channel :-P 11:26:14 <Ammler> how do I define a requires without version? 11:30:10 <Ammler> also in the GUI is just dependency BaseMod, no mention of the version 11:31:04 <Ammler> I edited presets and now 3.0 is gone, but the issue will arise again if I will upload another basemode 11:33:21 <Ammler> andythenorth: you can use http://dev.openttdcoop.org/p/firs , if you need typeable link for bananas 11:33:32 <Ammler> then make links to the forums there 11:33:37 <planetmaker> Ammler, there's (currently) no way 11:33:45 *** MinchinWeb has quit IRC 11:34:01 <planetmaker> it'll need a bananas re-work 11:34:11 <andythenorth> Ammler: if I want, I can just use tinyurl 11:34:18 <andythenorth> or I can write my own url shortener 11:34:23 <Ammler> or your tt-foundry.com 11:34:26 <Ammler> and redirect 11:34:35 <andythenorth> but that doesn't solve the case generally 11:35:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: obviously it needs work, but in what respects? 11:35:29 <Ammler> and well, the version issue isn't really important 11:35:34 <Ammler> (IMO) 11:35:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth, obviously to that end, that you can a) pick a specific version and b) pick a max or min version as requirement 11:35:51 <andythenorth> ah ok 11:35:58 <Ammler> it is nice to know why, though 11:36:00 <andythenorth> we talk about different things again - my fault :| 11:36:02 <andythenorth> sorry 11:36:07 <planetmaker> and the interface needs re-design. But it's only one of few issues with bananas 11:36:35 <andythenorth> wrt url shorteners, they're not the most complex web app ever 11:36:54 <planetmaker> and they basically make an URL un-rememberable ;-) 11:37:00 <Ammler> I think, the url I pasted above is "enough" short 11:37:07 <planetmaker> tinyurl/blublbla94 11:37:10 <planetmaker> is clear ;-) 11:37:26 <andythenorth> is Ammler's suggestion clear? 11:37:43 <planetmaker> dev.openttdcoop.org//projects/firs is rememberable 11:37:55 <planetmaker> or tt-foundry.org 11:37:58 <andythenorth> why do you need to remember it? 11:38:05 <planetmaker> quicker than bookmarks 11:38:13 <andythenorth> the issue at hand is we can't click or copy-and-paste 11:38:16 <andythenorth> but there may be others :P 11:38:21 <planetmaker> I usually type in the first two letters of my frequently - used links, select, done 11:38:49 <planetmaker> the short answer is: tinyURL and similar services are something I find completely useless 11:39:03 <andythenorth> you find this easy to remember? 11:39:03 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607 11:39:04 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations (at www.tt-forums.net) 11:39:05 <planetmaker> and rather hinder than help 11:39:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth, and how is that better than tinyurl/blubla98 ? 11:39:39 <andythenorth> is it better? 11:39:47 <planetmaker> no. But not worse either 11:39:53 <planetmaker> So no need for an URL re-write 11:40:01 <planetmaker> which is another layer which can also break 11:40:09 <andythenorth> I agree with that 11:40:16 <andythenorth> it's a sticking plaster on a fundamental problem 11:40:37 <andythenorth> but two of the available solutions are ruled out 11:40:48 <andythenorth> are you ruling out a third? 11:40:54 <andythenorth> there is a fourth... 11:41:20 <andythenorth> do nothing 11:44:06 <andythenorth> - copy and paste urls 11:44:10 <andythenorth> - clickable urls 11:44:17 <andythenorth> - easy to type urls 11:44:20 <andythenorth> - do nothing 11:44:23 <andythenorth> - remove url field 11:44:29 <andythenorth> any other ideas? 11:46:05 <Ammler> andythenorth: I didn't suggest shorter url, I suggested "typeable" url 11:46:25 <andythenorth> Ammler: ^ see what I wrote above ;) 11:46:28 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/p/opengfx is quite easy to type or remember 11:46:29 <andythenorth> you were quite right 11:47:11 <Ammler> it is stupid to have tt-forums links on bananas 11:47:21 <Ammler> they are useless 11:47:30 <Ammler> but not the link I suggsted 11:47:41 * andythenorth thinks it's probably trivial to do it at http://bananas.openttd.org/en/ 11:47:53 <andythenorth> the content item already has some kind of entry or id 11:47:58 <andythenorth> we already store the url 11:48:09 * andythenorth is not experienced with django, but has an inkling 11:48:19 <Ammler> andythenorth: no need there 11:48:27 <Ammler> the issue is at openttd client 11:48:37 <Ammler> and not solveable 11:48:45 <andythenorth> in what respect? 11:48:50 <Ammler> so you _need_ to use typeable url 11:49:04 <andythenorth> yes 11:49:08 <andythenorth> but that could be supplied 11:49:10 <Ammler> you wont be able to make a clickable link on openttd 11:49:27 <andythenorth> the openttd client just shows whatever the db tells it for that field value, yes / no? 11:49:34 <andythenorth> Ammler: the point is 'easy to type' yes / no? 11:49:34 <Ammler> yes 11:49:36 <andythenorth> not clickable 11:49:40 <Ammler> yes 11:49:53 <Ammler> tt-forums links aren't 11:49:54 <andythenorth> if clickable was achievable, we wouldn't need workarounds 11:50:19 <Ammler> but that is impossible in the near future 11:50:50 <andythenorth> hence need for workaround (or do nothing) 11:51:09 <Ammler> using a typeable url isn't a workaround, is it? 11:51:15 <planetmaker> the only solution is OS-specific code to open an URL. I figure it IS possible. Just... feels not ideal 11:51:32 <planetmaker> My personal guess, though, is that it will be the solution to come, if at all 11:51:39 <Ammler> planetmaker: why is that not ideal? 11:51:48 <Ammler> you have other places with os specific code 11:51:52 <planetmaker> you can't handle that for all OS and setups error-free 11:52:15 <Ammler> you already allow paste on windows while you don't on linux 11:54:20 <planetmaker> it's one-thing to have things OS-specific. Another to have them system-configuration-specific 11:55:18 <Ammler> hmm, example? 11:55:38 <planetmaker> the actual browser to call, is configured by the user and different for every computer 11:55:50 <planetmaker> the API for accessing the clipboard is os-specific 11:56:15 <planetmaker> and indeed, doesn't work for me for linux either 11:56:33 <Ammler> ok, I thought, you can just somehow send the url to the os, which then decides which app to use for it 11:58:26 <Ammler> still a info windows which shows a rst formatted textfile might be enough 11:58:32 <planetmaker> I don't think so. But... 11:58:37 * andythenorth would take the workaround for now 11:58:41 <andythenorth> it would make it suck less 11:58:51 <Ammler> what is "the workaround"? 11:58:57 <andythenorth> otoh, if it was left in a high level of 'this sucks', maybe someone will fix it :P 11:59:08 <andythenorth> Ammler: the workaround is easier-to-type url 11:59:33 <Ammler> yeah, I see... 12:00:17 <andythenorth> basically I don't see it as complicated 12:00:43 <andythenorth> instead returning the current url, we instead return an easy-to-type url to a page on bananas 12:00:45 <Ammler> there are btw. also shorten links providers with offer customizing of the url hash 12:01:03 <andythenorth> this can all be done automatically 12:01:09 <Ammler> like bit.ly 12:01:13 <andythenorth> indeed 12:01:34 <Ammler> but it is hard to find something not used 12:01:38 <Ammler> like firs is gone 12:02:11 <andythenorth> which is why I originally suggested adding our own shortener :P 12:02:17 <andythenorth> but I don't think that's needed 12:02:28 <Ammler> well, if you want, we can host it for you :-P 12:03:00 <Ammler> no limits for the software you want to use ;-) 12:03:02 <andythenorth> this would need to be in bananas 12:03:03 <andythenorth> currently each content item on bananas has various views, e.g. 'manage' and 'download' 12:03:12 <andythenorth> all that's needed is a 'view' view 12:03:16 <andythenorth> at http://bananas.openttd.org/en/ 12:03:22 <andythenorth> for each item 12:03:27 <Ammler> bananas could use a details page 12:03:29 <andythenorth> it's not exactly complicated 12:03:38 <andythenorth> it's like adding some of what grf-crawler did 12:03:48 <andythenorth> I used to write web apps like that all day long 12:03:58 <andythenorth> except with slightly fewer arguments :P 12:04:08 <andythenorth> and I don't know much django 12:04:23 <andythenorth> but pyramid is django like in some areas, and I need to learn pyramid... 12:04:34 <andythenorth> so maybe I learn more django 12:05:09 <Ammler> the short url could use the grf file name without .grf 12:05:19 <andythenorth> maybe 12:05:23 <andythenorth> some of them suck :D 12:05:26 <andythenorth> have a look... 12:05:30 <Ammler> so you don't need a config option 12:05:35 <andythenorth> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/scenario/Singapore_Town_Names-0.18.5 12:05:44 <andythenorth> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/newgrf/Luukland_Special_Event-2011.04.01 12:05:47 <Ammler> well, and without version 12:06:13 <Ammler> still not that hard to type 12:06:17 <andythenorth> numeric IDs or alphabetical IDs are not hard to type either 12:06:18 <andythenorth> 12345 12:06:20 <andythenorth> AAB 12:06:23 <andythenorth> BDEF 12:06:23 <Ammler> they are 12:06:42 <Ammler> you can't remember those 12:06:47 <andythenorth> 3 letters gives us > 17,000 unique trailing url elements 12:06:51 <andythenorth> you can't remember ABC? 12:06:55 <Ammler> so you can't type those like you type this chat :-) 12:07:08 <andythenorth> hmm 12:07:13 <Ammler> I can't rember if ABC is firs or fish 12:07:25 <Ammler> I think, firs or fish is easier to remeber for those 12:07:26 <andythenorth> I don't know why anybody needs to remember :( 12:07:38 <Ammler> why is firs for firs bad? 12:07:38 <andythenorth> how will you remember luukland_special_event 12:07:39 <andythenorth> ? 12:07:46 <andythenorth> firs is an easy case ;) 12:07:50 <andythenorth> look for the hard case 12:07:57 <Ammler> why is swisstowns for swisstowns bad? 12:08:10 <Ammler> or 2cctrainset for 2cctrainset? 12:08:21 <Ammler> or nars or... 12:08:30 <andythenorth> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/newgrf/Stations_name_from_nearby_indus 12:08:46 <Ammler> well, why do you care about such? 12:08:52 <andythenorth> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/newgrf/FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set 12:08:59 <Ammler> you really think, those should rule how a url needs to look? 12:09:03 <andythenorth> need them to be easy to type 12:09:11 <Ammler> andythenorth: I said file name 12:09:17 <andythenorth> ah ha 12:09:21 <Ammler> not title or whatever 12:09:33 <Ammler> filename without extension 12:09:40 <andythenorth> so the use case is that you have openttd open, you're looking at the content download window 12:09:45 <andythenorth> you also have a browser open, and you're just trying to type something simple 12:09:52 <andythenorth> I'm not bothered about memorable 12:10:04 <andythenorth> if you want to find it, look at it in-game, or go visit the bananas page and browser 12:10:08 <andythenorth> or use your bookmarks 12:10:12 <andythenorth> or a bookmark service 12:10:17 <andythenorth> or autocomplete from history 12:10:26 <andythenorth> that's 5 options to solve that problem ;) 12:10:36 <Ammler> rembemberable means alos typeable 12:10:40 <andythenorth> I agree 12:10:47 <andythenorth> but short-term memorable is the most important 12:10:50 <Ammler> a hash isn't typeable 12:11:39 <Ammler> well, then you could add a textfield to bananas, where someone can change the shorturl to something else 12:11:47 <Ammler> and it uses the filename per default 12:12:07 <andythenorth> true 12:12:24 <Ammler> the problem is that bananas uses that ugly title 12:12:28 <andythenorth> indeed 12:12:32 <andythenorth> but that's solvable 12:12:45 <andythenorth> we allow customers to create these type of urls in some apps we have 12:13:05 <Ammler> that is 2 times ugly, first it isn't the title from action8 and second well, it can be nonascii 12:13:14 <andythenorth> he 12:13:37 <andythenorth> for easy-to-type I'd limit to a-z and 0-9 12:13:44 <andythenorth> no dash, no underscore or other punctuation 12:13:53 <Ammler> dash is fine 12:13:58 <andythenorth> em-dash 12:13:58 <Ammler> you need a delimeter 12:13:59 <andythenorth> ok 12:14:08 <andythenorth> easier than underscore, no shift key needed 12:14:16 <Ammler> _ is bad 12:14:20 <andythenorth> developer type underscores all day, no-one else knows what it is 12:14:26 <andythenorth> and it's easily confused with a space or underline 12:14:44 <Ammler> yep 12:15:18 <andythenorth> if it's user-specifiable, it needs error handling, in case pattern is already taken 12:15:32 <Ammler> well, _ are banned long time ago from good codestyle, I thought 12:15:38 <andythenorth> ho 12:15:41 <andythenorth> not mine :( 12:15:48 <andythenorth> they waste a lot of my time 12:15:50 <Ammler> youUseCaseStyleToday, afaik 12:16:06 <andythenorth> I prefer very_long_names_with_underscores_everywhere 12:16:19 <andythenorth> anyway 12:16:23 <andythenorth> this would be resolvable 12:16:26 <Ammler> on filenames, I use dots 12:16:35 <Ammler> movies or mp3 12:16:56 <andythenorth> I had bananas checked out somewhere 12:16:58 <andythenorth> wonder where 12:17:01 <andythenorth> it got moved iirc? 12:17:13 <Ammler> newgrf got moved 12:17:20 <Ammler> openttd.grf I meant 12:17:32 <andythenorth> ok 12:17:54 <Ammler> it should be a branch outside trunk 12:18:16 <Ammler> http://svn.openttd.org/extra/website/ 12:18:43 <andythenorth> thanks 12:19:03 <andythenorth> no idea how to get a dev environment for that :( 12:19:11 <andythenorth> guess if I had django running, that would help 12:19:14 <Ammler> KDE kate :-P 12:19:23 <andythenorth> I mean a local instance of the app ;) 12:19:27 <Ammler> you wanna a server? 12:19:30 <andythenorth> as I obviously can't test live 12:19:32 <andythenorth> yes 12:19:38 <Ammler> which distro? 12:19:44 <andythenorth> no idea 12:19:47 <dihedral> kate! \o/ 12:19:54 <andythenorth> I could just run locally on my laptop 12:20:00 <dihedral> a bit of love life for the KDE people :-D 12:20:06 <andythenorth> if I can figure out how to fire up django 12:20:07 <andythenorth> can't be hard 12:20:23 <Ammler> well, whatever fits you, if you like to use a server, just tell me the specs you need 12:20:27 <andythenorth> thanks 12:21:06 <Ammler> are the appliances for it? 12:21:14 <andythenorth> maybe 12:21:15 <andythenorth> dunno 12:22:00 <andythenorth> bananas *is* django yes/no? 12:23:00 <andythenorth> gah 12:23:07 <andythenorth> I have to setup mysql again 12:23:46 <Yexo> yes 12:23:54 <andythenorth> how do I find out my python versions 12:23:59 <andythenorth> I have multiple 12:24:01 <Yexo> python --version ? 12:24:10 <Yexo> ls /bin/python* ? 12:24:41 <andythenorth> locate python gave me enough answers :) 12:25:23 <andythenorth> looks like 2.4 is default on my box 12:25:36 <andythenorth> I have 2.5 and 2.6 but I don't want to spend all day fighting path issues :| 12:26:11 <Ammler> @topic remove -1 12:26:11 *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on http://dev.openttdcoop.org | Downloads log: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/log.csv | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames" 12:26:34 <Ammler> andythenorth: so shall I setup you a nice "whatever Linux" you can play with like it is local? 12:26:46 <andythenorth> only if it's very easy for you 12:26:55 <andythenorth> wait to see if I get across the 'bored now' threshold first 12:27:01 <andythenorth> I might find I can't even remotely fix this 12:27:21 <Ammler> well, it depends if I need to do more than simply setup the vps :-) 12:27:35 <andythenorth> I think the basic change to bananas is trivial 12:27:47 <andythenorth> step 1. add a 'view on a content item' view 12:27:55 <andythenorth> 2. render some stuff there 12:28:19 <andythenorth> including the url field stored in the db 12:28:24 <Ammler> I have a quite nice "deploy" system for devzone, which failed yesterday :-P 12:28:26 <andythenorth> 3. return a different url to the game 12:28:51 <andythenorth> Ammler: if you do setup a server, it has the advantage that others could give opinions / make fixes 12:28:58 <andythenorth> can't do that on my box 12:29:41 <andythenorth> 'bananas dev instance' 12:30:07 <Ammler> well, setup the server is easy 12:30:20 <Ammler> the issue is to have a testing version of the openttd.org website 12:30:39 <Ammler> I guess, simply clone svn.openttd.org/extra/website won't be enough 12:30:49 <andythenorth> you'd need a drop of database(s) 12:30:50 <planetmaker> that guess unfortunately is right 12:31:05 <andythenorth> you also need to consider any apache magic 12:31:22 <Ammler> e.g. for the testing env of devzone, I simply run dbsync before I work with testing 12:31:26 <andythenorth> hmm 12:31:38 <andythenorth> my proposed change needs no new data 12:31:49 <andythenorth> just a change to url dispatch + a new view 12:32:21 <andythenorth> Ammler: see if someone will give you a db drop... 12:32:25 <Ammler> I assume, this wouldn't be the last feature you add :-P 12:32:45 <Ammler> so a testing webpage of openttd.org might not be the worst 12:32:48 <planetmaker> hm... so a bananas playground & testing server? 12:33:07 <planetmaker> openttd.org has a complete testing copy of it, though 12:33:33 <planetmaker> but... root@openttd.org is not widely accessible ;-) 12:34:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: treat that one as a staging server 12:34:35 <andythenorth> dev server is a bit more...volatile 12:34:46 <andythenorth> ;) 12:34:50 <planetmaker> staging server is a good name indeed 12:35:07 <Ammler> really? :-P 12:35:10 <andythenorth> dev -> staging -> production 12:35:13 <andythenorth> is a standard pattern 12:35:15 <andythenorth> there are others 12:35:25 <Ammler> testing.dev.openttdcoop.org is staging of devzone 12:35:41 <Ammler> I can simply pull that from dev.openttdcoop.org 12:36:39 <Ammler> productive: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/devzone stage: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/redmine.testing 12:37:08 <andythenorth> hmm 12:37:30 <andythenorth> does django encourage method/object or object/method ? 12:38:29 <Ammler> anyway, if you want me to setup such stage (testing) server, ping me, I (We?) do not really care... ;-) 12:40:30 <Ammler> planetmaker: if you would commit something to extra/website, is that public or does that need another action? 12:43:32 <Yexo> it needs another action 12:43:36 <Yexo> current live is not in the repo 12:46:55 <Ammler> Yexo: so maybe someone could setup a stage server wich uses those 12:47:19 <Ammler> and then andy makes patches for you and you don't need to fear to break live 12:47:37 <Ammler> maybe even give andy commit right to that branch :-) 12:48:32 <Yexo> yes, only I can't do that 12:50:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:50:29 <Ammler> I just think, it would be easist to have stage server with same db data or a sync 12:51:00 <Ammler> so it would be easist to have that on openttd.org 12:51:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:07:37 *** MinchinWeb has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:12:03 <MinchinWeb> how do you get the little bar that allows you to break the AI on a certain text? 13:12:37 <Yexo> "set ai_developer 1" in the console 13:12:43 <Yexo> or in your config file 13:13:54 <MinchinWeb> it comes back "'ai developer' is unknown setting" 13:14:03 <MinchinWeb> I'm running 1.1 13:14:51 <Yexo> oh, it's ai_developer_tools 13:15:28 <MinchinWeb> sweet 13:15:38 <MinchinWeb> does that do anything else? 13:16:27 <Yexo> currently not 13:16:50 <Yexo> it might enable additional tools if any become available in the future 13:18:03 <MinchinWeb> ok thanks 13:22:05 <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 13:22:05 <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again... 14:03:11 *** MinchinWeb has quit IRC 14:18:18 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (New): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2506 14:24:52 <Ammler> why is that an issue of opengfx? 14:25:15 <planetmaker> For old(er) versions 14:25:20 <Ammler> is there no equalizer on the original ttd graphcis? 14:25:21 <planetmaker> (of openttd) 14:25:25 <planetmaker> there is 14:25:39 <planetmaker> but it never had function, at least within openttd 14:25:58 <Ammler> well, so why not remove it from openttd? 14:26:10 <planetmaker> Also, yes 14:26:12 <Ammler> so also standard set would be "fixed"? 14:26:37 <planetmaker> But when people play older OpenTTD versions, OpenGFX could solve that confusion by not showing an equalizer there 14:27:34 <Ammler> I see :-) 14:28:12 <Ammler> so you make the equalizer button size 0x0 and it isn't clickable anymore, right? 14:31:13 <planetmaker> it was never clickable 14:31:39 <planetmaker> I'd not make it 0x0; it's the spacer between two widgets and has a hard-coded minimum size of 20x16 or so 14:31:50 <planetmaker> but... it could be an empty gray piece or so 14:32:19 <planetmaker> patch attached, will look at OpenGFX patch later at home (and use that patch on trunk) 14:32:23 <Ammler> ah, it is the volume controler? 14:32:36 <planetmaker> it's between the two volume controler 14:32:57 <Ammler> hmm, volume controller has no effect? 14:33:02 <planetmaker> that does 14:33:10 <planetmaker> but not the (graphical) equalizer 14:34:24 <planetmaker> so it's a thing which pretends to be something it never has been... hm, I wonder whether it actually HAS a sprite... 14:34:50 <Ammler> hmm 14:35:00 <Ammler> I never saw that as disturbing 14:35:06 <Ammler> it is eyecandy 14:35:31 <Ammler> did that really work on original TTD? 14:35:38 <planetmaker> well, is. But... can be confusing :-) You and I know it for years. But someone new might see it indeed as bug, if it's just a fake instrument 14:35:47 <planetmaker> I don't know. Crashes always for me 14:36:00 <Ammler> planetmaker: I diagree on removing 14:36:11 <planetmaker> a no-function thingy? 14:36:13 <Ammler> I thought, there is a dummy equalizer 14:36:21 <Ammler> the function is eyecandy 14:36:34 <Ammler> shall I check TTD? 14:36:35 <planetmaker> controls should be clear, not eye candy 14:36:36 <Ammler> to be sure 14:36:43 <planetmaker> please do :-) 14:37:22 <planetmaker> But independent of that we should not keep confusing controls ;-) 14:39:37 <planetmaker> IMHO the only other option is to actually give it some meaning 14:39:48 <planetmaker> which is... MUCH more difficult ;-) 14:41:07 *** Ammller has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:41:25 <Ammller> music seems not to work on ttdpatch but the equalizer is empty there 14:41:35 <Ammller> on my ttdpatch 14:41:39 <planetmaker> he 14:41:56 <planetmaker> in openttd the game draws explicitly some colour-bars. hard-coded 14:42:16 <Ammller> so it was intended 14:42:23 <Ammller> or is :-) 14:42:31 *** Ammler has quit IRC 14:42:31 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 14:43:05 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (Rejected): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2506 14:43:05 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2506 (Rejected): Replace Equalizer (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2506#change-6458 14:44:41 <Ammler> sound works, no idea why my wine ttdp doesn't play music 14:45:11 <Ammler> gm files are there too 14:46:53 * planetmaker doesn't either 16:08:42 *** MinchinWeb has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:34:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:12:38 <Hirundo> andythenorth: Can I enable secondary industry closing mid-game without side effects? 17:13:13 <andythenorth> you get the side effect that industry might close ;) 17:13:37 <Hirundo> That's not a side effect, that's intentional 17:14:19 <Hirundo> the only flat area on the map is getting a bit flooded with dozens of secondaries I don't need 17:15:16 <Hirundo> Which is annoying because it makes building 4 track mainlines harder 17:15:41 <Hirundo> Besides, it looks silly 17:17:50 <Brot6> basecosts: update from r22 to r25 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/basecosts/nightlies/r25 17:18:12 <Brot6> chips: update from r114 to r116 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chips/nightlies/r116 17:19:13 <Brot6> firs: update from r1912 to r1915 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1915 17:20:24 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r634 to r637 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r637 17:20:37 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r25), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (ERROR r24), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r604), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset 17:20:37 <Brot6> (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r266), nml (ERROR r1307), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671) 17:27:20 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 18:58:13 <MinchinWeb> anyone here with NoAI experience? 18:58:46 <MinchinWeb> I get an error on 'AIBridgeList_Lenght' after upgrading to OpenTTD 1.1 18:58:57 <MinchinWeb> (in my AI, it worked fine before) 19:52:40 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2455: Updated Polish translation. (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2455#change-6460 20:03:32 <Yexo> MinchinWeb: what error do you get? 20:03:54 <Yexo> is it easy to reproduce? if so, how? 20:05:18 <MinchinWeb> it's real easy :) three typos in one line 20:05:59 <MinchinWeb> local BridgeList = AIBridgeList_Lenght(AILap.Manhattan(Path.GetTile(), SubPath.GetTile() + 1)); 20:06:34 <MinchinWeb> thanks for asking 20:06:52 <Yexo> sure, I hadn't read the backlog of #openttd yet 20:07:02 <MinchinWeb> no worries 20:07:18 <MinchinWeb> do you use an IRC client? 20:07:37 <Yexo> yes 20:07:41 <Yexo> XChat 20:10:48 <MinchinWeb> ok cool 20:11:34 <MinchinWeb> on another note, when a company goes bankrupt, are their (road) bridge and tunnels supposed to disappear? the rest of their roads stay... 20:13:48 <Yexo> yes, bridges and tunnels are owned by a company so they disappear 20:13:55 <Yexo> that makes for a nasty surprise for road AIs 20:16:44 *** MinchinWeb_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:19:10 <MinchinWeb> thus far I've just seen it on the minimap when my first AI goes bankrupt and the second comes along and rebuilds the missing bridge, etc 20:19:27 *** MinchinWeb has quit IRC 21:14:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:31:23 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:05:44 *** MinchinWeb_ has quit IRC