Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 13th April 2011:
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01:03:44  <Brot6> Bundles Update: h617b3db8-1.1 2011-04-13 32bpp-ez   (
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06:56:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2520 (New): Slope aware graphics for farms (andythenorth) @
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07:05:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1024 (Closed): Gas Station graphics need replacing (andythenorth) @
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09:34:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1935:eb68f4879429: Cleanup: refactor name of files for s... (andythenorth) @
09:44:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1936:098aa76b2930: Change: swap probability of store in ... (andythenorth) @
09:44:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1937:a0a6dc64b21b: Change: adjust probability of Builder... (andythenorth) @
09:44:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1938:6f8e36ba6b26: Cleanup: renaming of general store files (andythenorth) @
09:44:27  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2363 (Closed): Are enough stores generated at map gen? (andythenorth) @
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11:19:13  <Ammler> looks quite much like openttd compile farm behaves differently as local build?
11:19:26  <Ammler> it didn't respect the changes made to
11:19:36  <Ammler> at least not all
11:21:16  <Ammler> I hoped, I can abuse the cf to update the patch for findversion.vbs
11:23:18  <Yexo> Ammler: quite possible, IIRC the cf creates a src bundle and sends that to every vm that does the actual compiling
11:23:33  <Yexo> so the version is probably set by the configure flag or so
11:37:12  <Ammler> IMO, openttd should split version info and "compatiblity detection for client-server
11:38:13  <Ammler> I guess, blathijs broke the possibility to join a server with different version over console
11:43:06  <planetmaker> Ammler, that *could* be done. But practically it would nearly have no consequence. Many but fixes, additions and changes also change the deterministic behaviour of how the game runs. Thus you'd have a backward compatibility which is at most a few nightlies.
11:44:05  <planetmaker> And as such it would not help in the very vast majority of cases - and saves possibly also many bug reports due to most patches then not implementing their incompatibility with trunk
11:46:24  <Ammler> well, the issue is to make patched clients compatible with trunk
11:46:43  <Ammler> the other doesn't really matter or does not need to be your care
11:46:50  <Yexo> which shouldn't be automatically true, because that'll lead to a lot of invalid bug reports
11:47:08  <Yexo> and since you already have the means to make them compatible (by using ./configure --version=) I don't see what the problem is
11:47:22  <Ammler> you need to build for that
11:47:29  <Yexo> yes, so?
11:47:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2453 (Closed): Allow Petrol Stations to build anywhere o... (andythenorth) @
11:48:15  <planetmaker> Ammler, for which patch do you need no build?
11:48:24  <Ammler> the issue is you need to build a client looking completely unpatched so you can join a unpatched server
11:48:40  <Ammler> isn't that somehow wrong, does that not produce wrong bug reports?
11:48:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2521 (New): Distance checks for Petrol Pump (andythenorth) @
11:48:46  <planetmaker> Ammler, that's not quite true ;-)
11:48:58  * andythenorth ponders some town zone magic
11:48:58  <Yexo> why is that an issue? Most patched clients are _not_ compatible with an unpatched server
11:49:05  <Ammler> you just make it harder to build such clients
11:49:25  <planetmaker> Actually there's a 2nd way to see whether a version is patched and the (displayed) version just forced. So... it's mostly save
11:49:27  <Yexo> one argument to the configure script is not really hard
11:49:42  <Yexo> making it easier -> more people do it without understanding it -> more invalid bug reports
11:50:04  <planetmaker> besides the ./configure --version=rXXXX is quite easy. I see no harm in that
11:50:06  <Ammler> well, i hope Rubi will come back
11:50:08  <Yexo> planetmaker: but that is not used for detection in multiplayer games, right?
11:50:28  <planetmaker> Yexo, right. But for us to see the validity of bug reports when using ./configure --version=rXXX
11:51:30  <planetmaker> Ammler, I'm quite sure Rb will tell the same as Yexo and I just said. It works without effort to have a modified client join a trunk server (or vice versa).
11:51:34  <planetmaker> What does need changing?
11:51:39  <Ammler> nah, that is fine
11:51:54  <Ammler> I have issues about the cf
11:52:22  <Ammler> I don't get why it does produce other version string then I get locally
11:53:55  <Ammler> tried to build mp compatible 32bpp-ez 1.1.0
11:54:50  <Rubidium> Ammler: if you want me to notice when I'm not accidentally looking you should use my nick name...
11:55:13  <Ammler> oh, you are around?
11:55:21  <Ammler> :-)
11:57:11  <Rubidium> not anymore ;)
11:57:18  <Ammler> Rubidium: I tried to update 32bpp-ez but was only able to make a 1.1.0 patch, so I thought, it might be a good idea to make that for now and let GT do the "hard" job, but it failed on the CF
11:57:55  <Ammler> somehow it looks like the CF doesn't run for tags?
11:58:30  <Ammler> is it like yexo said and it does use tarballs?
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12:00:39  <Ammler> planetmaker: in the case of those MP compatible clients, you need to check gamelog to see it is patched
12:00:58  <Ammler> it should be somehow more verbose also vor the user
12:01:17  <planetmaker> yes
12:03:11  <Ammler> so you should be able to change the title without changing version maybe
12:03:20  <Ammler> hmm, maybe that is an idea :-)
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12:06:38  <Ammler> maybe I broke something :-(
12:09:12  <planetmaker> though... not sure it shows in game log. At least in crash.log
12:09:24  <planetmaker> game log is less info
12:09:50  <Ammler> gamelog shows the MODIFIED flag
12:10:06  <Ammler> which I force to 2 in such cases
12:22:06  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
12:22:06  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
13:02:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1939:a531b6b4ff08: Change: (translations) Fruit & Vegeta... (andythenorth) @
13:08:07  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1940:e1f2dd96df48: Change: (translations) rename Store t... (andythenorth) @
13:11:46  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1941:6a347324a808: Cleanup: refactor Store files to Food... (andythenorth) @
13:12:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1653: Industry built in town which accepts fruit (andythenorth) @
13:15:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1942:93204d69b524: Feature: (affects save games) Food Ma... (andythenorth) @
13:17:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1653 (Closed): Industry built in town which accepts fruit (andythenorth) @
13:17:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2522 (New): Additional town industry for Goods, BDMT (andythenorth) @
13:19:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2522 (New): Additional town industry for Goods, BDMT (andythenorth) @
13:22:06  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
13:22:11  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
13:23:26  <Ammler> hmm, it should check API only, if there is something to build
13:42:54  <Ammler> how do I create a openttd source bundle?
13:43:28  <Terkhen> make bundle_src IIRC
13:43:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2522 (Closed): Additional town industry for Goods, BDMT (andythenorth) @
13:43:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1943:8106d46e6a10: Feature: Hardware Store (andythenorth) @
13:43:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2522 (Closed): Additional town industry for Goods, BDMT (andythenorth) @
13:44:03  <Ammler> target not found
13:44:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2523 (New): Graphics for Hardware Store (andythenorth) @
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14:01:23  <Ammler> I assume, openttd does not need building to create the source tarball
14:02:09  <Ammler> maybe it is a simple export with "./ > .ottdrev"?
14:02:41  <Yexo> possible, I really don't know
14:07:03  <Ammler> Rubidium: how does openttd build source tarball?
14:07:41  <Ammler> (just for proper highlighting ;-)
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14:43:52  <Rubidium> Ammler: don't know by heart, but probably like you said
14:44:15  <Rubidium> though, svn checkout, findversion, svn export in a copy of the directory
14:45:20  <Ammler> same with the hg repos?
14:48:52  <Ammler> hmm, I guess I found the issue
14:49:10  <Ammler> the tags aren't fixed in the repo. just belong to mq still
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14:55:32  <Rubidium> with the hg/git repos it probably just kills the .hg/.git directory
14:55:47  <Rubidium> but can't look at it due to me missing the right keys to login
15:05:58  <Ammler> yes, my folt
15:06:02  <Ammler> fault*
15:06:40  <Ammler> I thought, if you clone a mq repo, it does also use the tags
15:06:44  <Ammler> but those are gone
15:34:59  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1944:41e2775865f5: Change: (translations) use just 'Hote... (andythenorth) @
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16:51:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2524 (New): 'Botel' layout for hotel (andythenorth) @
16:51:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2452 (Closed): Hotel industry (andythenorth) @
16:52:19  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2525 (New): Hotel should produce PAX (andythenorth) @
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17:04:52  <andythenorth> Ammler: I am getting sadness on push
17:04:56  <andythenorth> I'll try again...
17:05:04  <andythenorth> worked
17:05:12  <andythenorth> error was abort: error: _ssl.c:480: EOF occurred in violation of protocol
17:05:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1945:b2b1a6d6db17: Change: Hotel accepts / produces PAX (andythenorth) @
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17:11:25  <Ammler> andythenorth: did nothing on the server
17:12:17  <andythenorth> Ammler: could be SSL my end
17:12:21  * andythenorth shrug
17:12:31  <Ammler> no idea either
17:12:56  <Ammler> I would guess, you need to update your client, there is much improvement from hg according ssl
17:13:06  <Ammler> we use 1.8.1 on the server
17:13:54  <Ammler> pre 1.7 did not even validate the certs
17:16:10  <planetmaker> when I recently updated I really wondered what other packeges needed updating, too ;-) Like ncurses etc pp
17:17:34  <Ammler> you don't have ncurses installed?
17:17:58  <Brot6> chips: update from r128 to r132 done (1 errors) -
17:18:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2526 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:18:35  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r25), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (ERROR r24), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r604), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7),
17:18:35  <Brot6> metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r266), nml (ERROR r1307), nutracks (r185), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r637), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:22  <Ammler> andythenorth: forgotton image?
17:19:27  <planetmaker> Ammler: I do. But it needed a new(er) version than the previous one
17:19:44  <Ammler> you speak about your mac, right?
17:20:07  <planetmaker> yes
17:20:33  <planetmaker> as "sudo port upgrade mercurial" has some deps which then also get updated
17:21:11  <Ammler> is there no "sudo port upgrade --all" or so?
17:21:46  <Ammler> I never update single packages
17:22:07  <Ammler> if I upgrade I update everything what want update :-)
17:22:18  <planetmaker> of course there is. But then I'd have the machine compiling stuff for hours to go
17:22:46  <Ammler> ah sorry, it isn't binary repo
17:24:37  <planetmaker> Full Name: python26 @2.6.6_1
17:24:39  <planetmaker> Library Dependencies: gettext, zlib, openssl, sqlite3, db46, ncurses, gdbm, bzip2, readline <-- takes already some time ;-)
17:24:58  <planetmaker> and there was a python update to 2.6 and thus everything there which had an update also got re-compiled
17:25:13  <planetmaker> and things like zlib... as universal one
17:27:13  <andythenorth> Ammler: hg st shows no missing images here
17:27:23  <Ammler> andythenorth: it isn't
17:27:27  <Ammler> check the error
17:27:37  <Ammler> I guessed :-P
17:28:48  <andythenorth> one day we'll provide a commit hook that catches that :P
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17:32:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: please don't answer anymore in this copyright vs. SAC vanity thread. Just let it die, please
17:33:17  <planetmaker> everything which had to be said, has been said multiple times already there
17:33:45  <planetmaker> and that SAC won't see where she does wrong, was also clear
17:34:28  * Lakie weeps
17:34:57  <Lakie> Moved my script from windows to linux and nothing but errors on execution.
17:35:34  <planetmaker> :-D what are they?
17:35:45  <Lakie> thinks like from not being support
17:35:53  * Lakie is kind of like, uh?
17:36:07  <planetmaker> care to give me a test case and the script?
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17:36:30  <Lakie> and not liking definions of functions like def foo():
17:37:33  <Lakie> I'll have a quick play, check I''ve not set line endings wrong or managed to garble text
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17:40:59  * andythenorth_ is 55 commits away from FIRS 2k
17:42:32  <Ammler> planetmaker: as you can read from post, I don't mind such threads :-)
17:42:36  <Ammler> my*
17:43:40  * andythenorth_ minds them
17:43:47  <andythenorth_> they are stressful and demoralising
17:44:04  <Ammler> then you should ignore those
17:44:11  <Ammler> as I thought, you already do
17:44:21  <andythenorth_> dramas are addictive :P
17:44:32  <andythenorth_> and I couldn't ignore bad behaviour
17:44:42  <andythenorth_> it's most stressful making sure I don't behave badly myself
17:44:53  <andythenorth_> it would be too easy to take someone apart brutally
17:46:18  <Ammler> I answered because she thought, the issue is that she doesn't release something
17:46:45  <Ammler> also it is all friendly and peacefully now :-)
17:48:03  <Lakie> My best guess would be that the python installation on the linux vm I'm using is fubar, planetmaker
17:48:44  <Ammler> oh, she answered
17:48:58  <Ammler> and yes, she is really the most arrogant unfriendly person on tt-forums
17:49:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: I don't answer
17:49:08  <Ammler> :-)
17:49:16  * Lakie sighs
17:49:26  <Lakie> That topic should probably be locked.
17:49:31  <Ammler> please not
17:49:47  <Ammler> only if you ban her
17:50:07  <Lakie> I can't do that
17:50:14  <Lakie> Needs 3 warnings and such
17:50:19  <Ammler> I won't answer :-)
17:50:24  <Ammler> don't fear
17:50:27  <Lakie> bbiab
17:50:51  <Ammler> it would be the most unfriendly post from me
17:58:39  <planetmaker> well, her answer makes it blindingly clear that she operates with double standards
18:00:33  <andythenorth_> I think she tries to be liked
18:00:36  <andythenorth_> but fails
18:01:08  * andythenorth_ is half-tempted to...
18:01:10  <andythenorth_> ...but no
18:02:26  <Terkhen> you should really ignore drama posts
18:02:33  <Terkhen> "don't feed the troll"
18:02:34  * andythenorth_ decides not to feed the flames
18:02:43  <andythenorth_> she's swedish?
18:02:50  <andythenorth_> trolls originate there I believe :)
18:02:59  * andythenorth_ apologises in advance for generalisations
18:03:05  <andythenorth_> or even after the fact
18:03:17  <andythenorth_> SAC is blissfully unaware of Whuffie
18:03:18  <andythenorth_>
18:03:19  <Webster> Title: Whuffie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
18:03:29  <Terkhen> in modern times they are spread through the whole world
18:04:43  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: interesting, I want to read that book
18:04:48  <andythenorth_> I haven't yet
18:04:53  <andythenorth_> but Whuffie is a nice concept
18:06:02  <Terkhen> it's a bit scary too :)
18:06:44  <Terkhen> but I'm sure people would stop doing stupid stuff while driving
18:18:18  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: any idea how to do this one?  :)
18:18:28  <planetmaker> whuffie sounds like an interesting book :-)
18:19:05  * andythenorth_ wonders if SAC is really arrogant, or just quite insecure and driven?
18:19:11  <planetmaker> I checked through the compatibility stuff recently. That was ok.
18:19:15  <andythenorth_> ok
18:19:23  <Terkhen> IIRC you had checks for action14 or something similar to that
18:19:32  <andythenorth_> I can't recall writing any industry code which is version-specific
18:19:51  <Terkhen> I remember a version of one of your NewGRFs not working with 1.0.5, but maybe it was FISH
18:20:02  <andythenorth_> recent FIRS doesn't work with 1.0.5
18:20:17  <Terkhen> then I'm talking about something else, sorry :)
18:20:29  <andythenorth_> np :)
18:20:37  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: maybe 2287 can be closed?
18:23:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2477: Recycling depot needs location code (andythenorth) @
18:23:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2527 (New): Limit recycling depot to one per town (andythenorth) @
18:24:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: I guess it might be...
18:24:43  <planetmaker> Even if there are other checks for (earlier) versions: They don't quite hurt and make clear where those features can be used - should it be re-used somewhere somewhen
18:25:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #2287 (Closed): review code to remove all pre 1.1 leg... (andythenorth) @
18:25:10  * andythenorth_ has been perusing infra
18:25:16  <andythenorth_> which remains highly impressive
18:25:35  <Terkhen> yes, I remember checking that site when I started looking for newgrfs
18:26:16  <Terkhen> it is still on my list of "try as soon as it is released"
18:28:11  <planetmaker> it was... but meanwhile I kinda removed it from mine
18:28:55  <planetmaker> if not bananas'ed it doesn't exist :-P
18:29:23  <Terkhen> hmm... true, I doubt it would get into bananas if it was released :(
18:29:26  * andythenorth_ was looking for a quote
18:29:37  * Lakie sighs, fixed it forgot that comment line at the top of the script. :/
18:29:41  <andythenorth_> there's a phrase for working on something too long, so it's too beautiful
18:29:52  <Terkhen> I already replaced stolen trees with opengfx+ trees, it's a shame that the tropical trees never were completed
18:30:03  <andythenorth_> there's also this quote :P
18:30:05  <Webster> Title: Real Artists Ship (at
18:31:08  <planetmaker> yes, that's imensly important :-)
18:31:24  * planetmaker is happy that andy belongs to that category who actually ship :-)
18:31:31  <Terkhen> feedback is faster than perfection? :)
18:31:45  <planetmaker> :-)
18:36:27  <Terkhen> see you tomorrow
18:42:43  <planetmaker> enjoy, Terkhen
18:59:28  * Lakie thinks its roughly integrated for a hack attempt anyways
19:03:14  <Lakie> I think I'll tinker somemore with the makefile system later.
19:11:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2528 (New): Improve Biorefinery shading (andythenorth) @
19:12:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2529 (New): Rework Cement Plant graphics (andythenorth) @
20:08:33  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 85:6574233053e0: Merge from 1.1 (tags sorting) (Ammler) @
20:08:33  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 86:3e36e05e56df: Fix: clone of mq repo has lost mq tags, also findver... (Ammler) @
20:10:07  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches - Revision 87:c854de60b581: Oh, and yes, tag again :-P (Ammler) @
20:12:37  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from 1.1.0 to 1.1.0 done (73 errors) -
20:16:04  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from 1.1.0 to 1.1.0 done (73 errors) -
20:21:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2251 (Closed): Update FIRS website (andythenorth) @
20:24:46  <LordAro> Ammler: can i ask what you are doing with the ez patch?
20:26:08  <Ammler> fixing the mq tags support, I broke it :-P
20:26:23  <Ammler> LordAro: I also tried to rebase it, but failed
20:27:10  <Ammler> can I ask, why do you ask?
20:32:43  * andythenorth_ should nail this up on the FIRS website:
20:32:44  <Webster> Title: Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere. by GK Chesterton (at
20:34:43  <Ammler> LordAro: If you wanna help with 32bpp-ez-patches, I guess GT wouldn't be against :-)
20:35:14  <Ammler> I just made things for
20:35:32  <LordAro> probably, although i am a little busy right now :L
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20:45:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2523 (New): Graphics for Hardware Store (andythenorth) @
20:45:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1946:6ba468b76b35: Fix: add missing Hardware Store file ... (andythenorth) @
20:45:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1947:9b0c595ebc99: Change: reuse a base set sprite for H... (andythenorth) @
20:46:43  <Brot6> firs: update from r1930 to r1947 done (2 errors) -
20:48:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1948:3143aab906ea: Fix: bounding box error (andythenorth) @
20:49:52  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: there is a FIRS error at sprite 9
20:50:00  <andythenorth_> looks like a translations character issue
20:50:00  <andythenorth_> /!!Warning (143): Offset 531: Using unspecified control character 08.
20:50:10  <planetmaker> italian?
20:50:20  <andythenorth_> probably yes
21:00:21  <planetmaker> hm...
21:12:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1949:a371c7d7fc7d: Change: lighten shading at Furniture ... (andythenorth) @
21:15:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1627: improvements to Store placement (andythenorth) @
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21:36:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1950:9f9055119a3b: Fix: Truncated colour code in Italian... (planetmaker) @
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