Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 18th April 2011:
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00:22:08  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
00:22:09  <Brot6> [releases] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
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04:34:09  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g3661b828 2011-04-18 cargodist   (
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06:09:47  <Rubidium> dejavu!
06:22:10  <Brot6> [nightlies] openSUSE API not reachable, sleep an hour and try again...
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11:01:52  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2090: Snowaware forests (planetmaker) @
11:02:56  <planetmaker> <-- I'd like some feedback from Terkhen there :-)
11:09:16  <Terkhen> nice, let's see :)
11:09:52  <Terkhen> I almost had snow awareness working for oil wells, but the animation code was driving me mad
11:10:15  <planetmaker> don't you have? IIRC it works, doesn't it?
11:10:51  <planetmaker> at least I saw oil wells on both normal and snowy ground
11:11:36  <planetmaker> I actually used the oil wells as a guide :-P
11:11:49  <Terkhen> really? I don't remember finishing it :/
11:11:55  <planetmaker> :-D
11:12:20  <planetmaker> it seems to work, but I did not check it too closely. But trees are a copy & paste and adopt version of it
11:12:50  <planetmaker> basically adding another way animations work
11:13:04  <planetmaker> and of course a different tile layout
11:13:09  <Terkhen> there are no commits related to snow aware oil wells
11:13:15  <planetmaker> hm...
11:13:30  <Terkhen> that makes me wonder what code have you been using as a guide :P
11:13:36  <planetmaker> I tested it jointly with ogfx+landscape... I wonder whether that provided it ;-)
11:13:53  <planetmaker> it's in the same file, though. Just a bit further down
11:14:20  <Terkhen> oh, I begin to understand what happened :)
11:14:24  <Terkhen> your patch includes mine
11:14:29  <planetmaker> :-D
11:14:32  <Terkhen> you probably had it applied when you started coding
11:14:40  <planetmaker> sorry, didn't notice that :-)
11:14:48  <planetmaker> I didn't look at the diff
11:15:04  <Terkhen> IIRC the snow awareness worked, but the oil rigs did not move correctly
11:15:15  <Terkhen> sometimes the animation was cut before it was finished
11:15:19  <planetmaker> they sometimes jumped back to 0 position IIRC
11:15:22  <planetmaker> yep
11:15:22  <Terkhen> yes
11:15:34  <planetmaker> I guess the same animation stuff as I applied could be used there, too
11:15:40  <planetmaker> then it will always finish a cycle
11:15:47  <Terkhen> Yx told me the right implementation, I fighted a bit to implement it without success and forgot about the patch
11:16:30  <planetmaker> forests works like: trigger + random + in 0 state? --> animate one cycle
11:17:01  * Ammler has also a little patch for pm:
11:17:02  <Terkhen> what does 0xFD means?
11:17:24  <planetmaker> continue as usuall IIRC.
11:17:25  * planetmaker checks
11:17:55  <planetmaker> ah, no. "do nothing"
11:18:23  <Terkhen> since oil wells will use it too, IMO you could use a define similar to GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL
11:18:24  <planetmaker> 0xFE is "continue"
11:18:39  <Terkhen> as usual, with a code example I finally understand what was I supposed to do :)
11:18:43  <planetmaker> NML should probably define that
11:21:02  <planetmaker> GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL is an NML constant, too ;-)
11:22:29  <Terkhen> sorry, I meant GROUNDSPRITE_CLEAR
11:22:31  <planetmaker> hm, interestingly my diff knows that part already, too, Ammler ;-)
11:22:46  <planetmaker> I should always check the repo for virgin state :-P
11:23:38  <Ammler> hmm, I could setup a rewrite based on client :-)
11:24:02  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 13:46db912c9459: Fix: Wrong repository URL in readme and missing a... (planetmaker) @
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11:24:39  <Terkhen> planetmaker: if the animation works correctly, just remove the wrong oil wells code and commit it, then I can use your code to finish mine :)
11:25:07  <planetmaker> Well. It works. But is it what we want?
11:25:16  <planetmaker> Watch for a change a forest ingame :-)
11:25:20  <andythenorth> are you recoding oil well animation?
11:25:25  <andythenorth> FIRS needs that too :P
11:25:25  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes
11:25:27  <planetmaker> and forests
11:25:34  <andythenorth> forest animation?  The cutting?
11:25:34  <planetmaker> I thought of giving that back to FIRS then, too
11:25:40  <planetmaker> and snow-awareness
11:25:52  <andythenorth> FIRS forest is snow aware already :)
11:25:56  <andythenorth> and slope
11:25:58  <andythenorth> but lacks animation
11:26:08  <andythenorth> (would require insane number of tile action 2s currently)
11:26:15  <planetmaker> well. animation as in different growth stages and one is the cut down trees
11:26:22  <andythenorth> #2534
11:26:23  <Brot6> andythenorth: #2534 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2534: Disable default hotel (town building) - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
11:26:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^ the thinking with 2534 was to avoid inconsistency.  If there are two kinds of hotel, it's confusing
11:26:48  <Terkhen> andythenorth: snow awareness and restoring the tile animation after breaking it with snow awareness :P
11:27:04  <planetmaker> ;-)
11:27:30  <andythenorth> the same 'confusing' could be applied to shops though
11:27:40  <andythenorth> and I'm not proposing disabling town shops
11:27:40  <Ammler> andythenorth: isn't your hotel a industry?
11:27:42  <andythenorth> yes
11:28:00  <Ammler> so the other hotel is "hidden" anyway
11:28:11  <planetmaker> andythenorth: ^ for that reason I don't think it's an issue
11:28:15  <andythenorth> well it will show up as 'hotel' under the info tool
11:28:17  <andythenorth> but that's it
11:28:21  <planetmaker> and it limits the available houses needlessly
11:28:24  <andythenorth> and I know it's there, most people probably don't
11:28:48  <planetmaker> the minimap and industry list will make clear as well as a tile query
11:28:59  <Ammler> well, you could make a nice 8bpp hotel for opengfx
11:29:12  <planetmaker> if there's no visual difference and you want to avoid confusion you must skip drawing in TTD style
11:29:20  <planetmaker> which would be sad ;-)
11:29:22  <Ammler> we use there a 32bpp convert which does not really fit the rest
11:30:52  <planetmaker> Terkhen: (or whoever likes to give feedback): I'd be especially interested in answers as of what should trigger animation for forests.
11:31:25  <Terkhen> aren't you just copying how the animation behaves on default forests?
11:31:48  <planetmaker> I'm not quite sure how it does. IIRC only when cargo is transported, right?
11:32:11  <Terkhen> I remember checking OpenTTD code to see how the oil wells animation worked, let me see if I can find it
11:32:16  <planetmaker> Which the code currently doesn't. But it's a more or less trivial change.
11:32:52  <Ammler> IMO, only animation, if transporting is a good idea
11:33:09  <Ammler> a kind of gift for setup the route :-)
11:33:29  <andythenorth> I will draw a hotel at some point, on a 1x2 layout
11:36:05  <Terkhen> planetmaker: the code for oil wells animation is on industry_cmd, line 638
11:36:27  <Terkhen> I don't see anything regarding forests there
11:40:48  <planetmaker> hm, so don't I. I previously checked through the files in src/table. And sure enough there's animation. But I didn't find the trigger
11:43:50  <andythenorth> fishing harbour: crates / no crates?
11:44:01  <andythenorth>
11:44:02  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations (at
11:44:05  <planetmaker> rather none than everywhere
11:44:08  <andythenorth> fine
11:45:03  <Ammler> ok, suse api error should only error now, if needed to build
11:45:43  <Terkhen> IMO the best would be less crates, and in random places
11:45:56  <andythenorth> easy to say
11:45:58  <andythenorth> hard to do :D
11:46:00  <planetmaker> yes, I suggested that yesterday ;-)
11:46:07  <Terkhen> then I agree with planetmaker :)
11:46:37  <planetmaker> I guess we only get that when we talk frosch into the new extended varaction2 layouts
11:46:49  <andythenorth> keep talking at him :P
11:47:16  <Ammler> doesn't the fishing harbor need a dock?
11:47:34  <Ammler> u*
11:47:36  <andythenorth> try adding one :P
11:47:39  <andythenorth> see what happens
11:47:49  <Ammler> ah
11:48:01  <andythenorth> I can give it a water station
11:48:06  <andythenorth> as per oil rig etc
11:48:10  <andythenorth> but it's just stupid
11:48:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1971:0ca7f108d6c0: Change: remove crates from Fishing Ha... (andythenorth) @
11:48:31  <andythenorth> Ammler: needs new airports
11:49:01  <andythenorth> apart from graphics and some production code, FIRS is pretty much stuck due to limited nfo spe
11:49:02  <andythenorth> c
11:49:19  <andythenorth> there's plenty of work I can do, but some of it won't ship
11:49:33  <andythenorth> I'll keep going for a bit, but there'll be far fewer releases now
11:49:48  <andythenorth> and I might work on other stuff instead of building up a pile of unshipped work
11:49:48  <Ammler> FIRS 1.0 then :-)
11:49:56  <andythenorth> nah, it's not 1.0-worthy
11:50:03  <andythenorth> it's not 'good enough' yet
11:50:07  <andythenorth> it's still 'not done;
11:50:11  <andythenorth> ;)
11:50:31  <andythenorth> I can try patching ottd myself, but I just get very stuck very quickly every time I do that
11:50:39  <andythenorth> seems my skills are better direct to newgrf
11:50:44  <andythenorth> *directed
11:51:08  <planetmaker> nothing wrong with that :-)
11:51:40  <planetmaker> there are not many newgrf authors who talk to devs more than you ;-)
11:51:46  <andythenorth> I would rather be able to fix my own problems than have to ask for help
11:51:50  <Ammler> so you basically need the poonies done for FIRS 1.0?
11:51:54  <andythenorth> but I would hate working on something alone :P
11:51:56  <andythenorth> Ammler: yes
11:52:02  <planetmaker> and there are also few newgrf authors whose sets are play-tested as much by devs ;-)
11:52:27  <andythenorth> there's an easy win from extending var 68 for towns
11:52:33  <andythenorth> there's a patch for that already
11:52:49  <andythenorth> extended tile format would be incredibly useful, but mostly for eye candy
11:53:01  <planetmaker> :-)
11:53:08  <andythenorth> new airports would allow improvements to stations at water industries
11:53:27  <planetmaker> how do _air_ ports help with ports?
11:53:47  <planetmaker> different graphics / docking stations?
11:53:50  <andythenorth> the spec would allow more control over stations at water industries
11:54:04  <andythenorth> it would need more than airports demands, but not a lot more once airports are done
11:54:08  <andythenorth> actually delivering supplies to dredging site by chopper doesn't look that stupid
11:54:51  <Ammler> rotor should not stop at halt :-)
11:54:55  <andythenorth> well no
11:55:03  <andythenorth> with a state machine, that could be fixed
11:55:26  * andythenorth back to work
11:55:34  <andythenorth> tile layout would help the most people fastest
11:57:17  <andythenorth> and the sooner it's in trunk, the more installed base there'll be for it...
11:57:43  <andythenorth> I don't like releasing stuff that needs bleeding edge nightly :D
11:58:21  <planetmaker> while I understand that sentiment, it's also not that bad: it gets the nightlies tested :-P
11:58:36  <andythenorth> it does
11:59:36  <andythenorth> but it also makes a newgrf a bit 'leet'
11:59:43  <andythenorth> and produces fewer tests for said newgrf
11:59:57  <planetmaker> it does
12:06:56  <Terkhen> <--- why does this happen? (using 0.2.1)
12:07:27  <andythenorth> gremlins :P
12:07:32  <andythenorth> sun spots
12:07:34  <andythenorth> magnetic bees
12:08:24  <planetmaker> Terkhen, year < 1985
12:08:36  <Terkhen> hmm... okay
12:08:46  <Terkhen> makes sense :P
12:16:20  <planetmaker> the error message could be more descriptive. But then... you should not really be able to select it then... hm...
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14:34:36  <Terkhen> <--- customizable valuables chain
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14:43:02  <planetmaker> hm, reads nice. I can give it a shot in a bit
14:43:13  <planetmaker> and why is our BNC closing connections?
14:43:42  <Yexo> that was the bnc? I was just wondering what it was
14:44:04  <planetmaker> well. Not sure. But "server closed connection" reads like it
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14:44:16  <Yexo> ah, right
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14:46:10  <Terkhen> planetmaker: ok :)
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14:51:54  <Terkhen> enabling both gold and diamonds at the same time does not make much sense, but it is easy to implement and someone might want to do it
14:56:23  <planetmaker> sure, why not
14:56:44  <planetmaker> they might be duplicate in their meaning. But still it adds to the game to transport both
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15:02:07  <Terkhen> their payments are also duplicated :)
15:02:32  <Terkhen> but if anyone wants to enable both he can
15:18:17  <planetmaker> Terkhen: why do the industries need re-defined random probabilities?
15:18:33  <planetmaker> also: line 101 of the patch is an unmotivated whitespace change. (should be 4 tabs and the rest white to get proper indentation)
15:19:16  <planetmaker> other than that: go for it.
15:19:37  <Terkhen> because by default the probabilities are only defined for the climates they usually apear on (
15:20:03  <Terkhen> ok, I'll fix that, thanks for the review :)
15:26:02  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 14:accf46486fb8: Feature: Customizable valuables industry chain. (Terkhen) @
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16:11:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1311:709a28dacb05: Doc/Fix: Documentation on industry tiles and t... (planetmaker) @
16:12:32  <planetmaker> Terkhen: that GROUNDTILE_CLEAR can now be replaced by the NML constant GROUNDTILE_CLEARED ;-)
16:13:49  <Terkhen> great :)
16:14:10  <planetmaker> I found cleared clearer than clear as clear could be mixed up with normal
16:14:30  <planetmaker> everything clear? :-P
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16:41:27  <Terkhen> hmm... that sentence is quite confusing, but I don't mind either CLEAR or CLEARED
16:42:00  <Hirundo> 'clear' would imply that the tile is free
16:42:36  <Hirundo> 'cleared' makes more obvious that it someone has been playing with dynamite
16:42:40  <planetmaker> it's the brown, bulldozed tile
16:42:44  * Hirundo is adding it to the docs
16:42:57  <planetmaker> hm, forgot that obviously
16:43:03  <planetmaker> :S
16:44:32  <Hirundo> Now exams are over, I should have time to jack up my NML commit count a bit
16:44:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1312:d78f908fceb5: Doc: Mention GROUNDSPRITE_CLKEARED in the docu... (Hirundo) @
16:45:55  <planetmaker> hm... nmlc: "src/industry_tile_definition.pnml", line 445: Unknown identifier 'CB_RESULT_NEXT_FRAME'
16:46:15  <planetmaker> why?
16:46:48  <planetmaker>
16:48:14  <planetmaker> it doesn't like global constants for the default return values it seems
16:48:56  <planetmaker> it compiles fine when replaced by numbers
16:49:04  <planetmaker> and the same constant works elsewhere
16:49:23  <planetmaker> as return value for a specific variable value
16:51:06  <Hirundo> only for the default value?
16:51:28  <planetmaker> yes
16:51:42  <planetmaker> the same constant works for the other callback results
16:52:37  <planetmaker> you could take my patch and replace the default values by 0xFD or 0xFE. And it works. And in other placest they're used as default value
16:53:04  <Hirundo> I got the code in front of me now, indeed I can't find a reduce() call anywhere
16:55:21  <Hirundo> ...regression testing...
16:56:16  <Hirundo> btw, would it be possible to load the regression grfs into openttd and check for any errors (-d grf =1) during the testing process?
16:57:34  <planetmaker> yes and no. I guess it could be started with something like 1000 ticks and that's it and grep the debug output
16:57:52  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1313:fabb6a10249d: Fix: default value in a switch block was not r... (Hirundo) @
16:58:53  <planetmaker> hm, those nasty AI shall service a wood. And quick at that...
17:01:06  <Hirundo> I'll check later tonight, heading off for sports now
17:01:33  <planetmaker> enjoy the sports :-)
17:05:23  <planetmaker> anyway, thanks for the commit with the reduce(). It does the trick well
17:10:18  <Brot6> nml: update from r1309 to r1313 done -
17:17:49  <Brot6> chips: update from r132 to r133 done (1 errors) -
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17:18:50  <Brot6> firs: update from r1964 to r1971 done -
17:19:12  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r12 to r14 done -
17:19:46  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r58 to r59 done -
17:19:54  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r32), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r30), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r604), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7),
17:19:54  <Brot6> metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r266), nml (r1313), nutracks (r185), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r638), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:23:07  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 7), ogfx-trains, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swedishrails (Diffsize: 7), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156)
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18:40:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2539 (Confirmed): Recyclables cargo appears as regearing wit... (andythenorth) @
18:41:07  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2540 (New): Recycling Depots built in 1881 (andythenorth) @
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19:32:29  <andythenorth> george asked me to review graphics for ECS
19:32:35  <andythenorth> I'm not sure I should do that :o
19:32:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2541 (New): Remove largest textile mill layout (andythenorth) @
19:32:56  <supermop> conflict of interest?
19:33:35  <andythenorth> more just that if I'm honest, it might hurt his feelings
19:33:56  <andythenorth> I am thick skinned, but I don't like criticism of graphics for some reason
19:34:02  <andythenorth> so I don't like to criticise others
19:38:34  <planetmaker> I quite understand that sentiment, andythenorth
19:38:38  <planetmaker> You're not the first whom he asks, though
19:38:54  <andythenorth> there's no easy way to see ECS graphics?
19:38:59  <andythenorth> game :m
19:40:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: would you do it if asked?
19:42:27  <planetmaker> I rather not. For two reasons: for one: it's a HUGE task to review the entirety of ECS. And for 2nd it's a hightly subjective thing
19:42:45  <planetmaker> I gave some feedback, yes, I did that
19:42:57  <andythenorth> I'll give some feedback
19:43:00  <andythenorth> not comprehensive
19:43:05  <planetmaker> But... I think this question is asked too broadly...
19:43:09  <Ammler> I guess, it is easier to tell which ECS industry is nice and to tell every other needs rework
19:43:17  <planetmaker> I prefer the graphics by graphics approach of FIRS ;-)
19:43:53  <planetmaker> Nah, I think it has a lot of nice graphics. But it's its own style and not all is TTD. Most aren't.
19:43:54  <Ammler> almost none of them fits to another one
19:44:04  <planetmaker> TTD is not that much into animated details
19:44:07  <planetmaker> and uses more CC
19:44:43  <planetmaker> and it uses rather strong colour contrasts over small ones.
19:46:23  <planetmaker> and, actually, TTD style is also NOT industries with non-industry tiles in between which would fit a station
19:46:54  <planetmaker> so, the layout (shape and size) are also what make up TTD style
19:47:11  <planetmaker> ECS is partially too large for that
19:47:47  <Ammler> I don't see the need to make it "TTD compatible"
19:47:54  <planetmaker> and it uses a smaller version of FIRS' sand pit ;-)
19:48:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: so do I not see it either.
19:48:24  <Ammler> those industries are made for 256er maps
19:48:33  <andythenorth> ECS is mostly TTRS compatible
19:48:37  * andythenorth has been looking
19:48:38  <Ammler> openttd default is 1k
19:48:46  <andythenorth> as a style there's nothing wrong with it
19:48:51  <planetmaker> not at all
19:48:53  <andythenorth> but it won't fit SF original style
19:48:55  <Ammler> so industries can be 2 times bigger
19:49:06  <planetmaker> indeed. But I don't quite dare tell :-)
19:49:25  <planetmaker> Ammler: that'd not fit really. Other things don#t grow
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19:49:59  <Ammler> also if andy would make firs ttd style, he would need to make most of his graphics uglier ;-)
19:50:07  <andythenorth> ?
19:50:15  <andythenorth> wrt industries maybe
19:50:23  <andythenorth> lots of default industry is actually quite ugly
19:50:28  <andythenorth> but the houses are beatiful
19:50:36  <Ammler> very monotone
19:50:36  <andythenorth> beautiful even
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19:51:35  <andythenorth> I like ECS oil wells
19:51:49  <andythenorth> can't tell if they're pikka's or not
19:52:00  <Ammler> I like the coal mine
19:52:10  <andythenorth> ho
19:52:18  <andythenorth> the print works has a truck that drives in
19:52:20  <andythenorth> animation
19:52:26  <Ammler> and most tourist centers
19:52:57  <planetmaker> yes. But I don't like tourists ;-)
19:52:58  <Ammler> the castle is a bit oversized
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20:35:37  <andythenorth> Yexo: hi hi
20:35:44  <Yexo> evening andy
20:35:47  <andythenorth> CHIPS question...
20:36:02  <andythenorth> the 'quarry' tiles
20:36:04  <Yexo> I may not react quickly, I'm kinda busy right now
20:36:07  <andythenorth> np
20:36:13  <andythenorth> any time ;)
20:36:30  <andythenorth> would special casing them to show a digger instead of forklift be insane?
20:36:55  <andythenorth> allowing that they might also need to be date-aware at some point
20:37:12  <Yexo> special casing for digger instead of forklift is doable
20:37:22  <andythenorth> wise?
20:37:25  <Yexo> making them date-aware is a bit more work
20:37:33  <Yexo> wise? well, not sure
20:37:44  <Yexo> I think it's nice because it'll give a bit more variation
20:37:47  <andythenorth> date aware is probably more important than special casing for digger
20:37:58  <andythenorth> my 1880 game looks a bit odd :)
20:38:16  <Yexo> date-aware has some other "problems"
20:38:30  <Yexo> should it always take the date when the station was build or the current date
20:38:41  <andythenorth> I see the issue :|
20:38:51  <andythenorth> just have to choose one and live with it
20:39:07  <Yexo> and for "date when the station was build", is that the date that single tile is build or the "build_date" station var (which changes when you add a bus stop for example)
20:39:12  <andythenorth> ile has random bits?
20:39:15  <andythenorth> +t
20:39:15  <Yexo> yes
20:39:25  <andythenorth> current date + random offset?
20:39:33  <Yexo> fine
20:39:38  <andythenorth> is how FIRS will do it
20:39:40  <Yexo> random bits are already used though
20:39:46  <andythenorth> hmm
20:40:01  <andythenorth> we can use them again?
20:40:03  <Yexo> no problem to reuse them, but it might give effects that for example all forklift tiles change at a later date
20:40:14  <andythenorth> station has any random bits?
20:40:21  <Yexo> 16
20:40:30  <Yexo> +4 for every tile
20:40:47  <andythenorth> maybe all equipment in one station is upgraded at once? :D
20:41:00  <Yexo> that's no problem
20:41:13  <andythenorth> in FIRS the whole industry will probably have to change at once
20:41:14  <Yexo> random per station instead of per tile, that actually makes a lot more sense :)
20:41:28  <andythenorth> it won't look as good as random per tile
20:41:34  <andythenorth> I think the mix is more 'realistic'
20:41:38  <andythenorth> but screw that :P
20:42:30  <andythenorth> I'll probably find a few other things
20:42:36  <andythenorth> this is my first real CHIPS game :)
20:46:20  <andythenorth> I could do with a better farm station tile, but I've no idea what it would be
20:46:26  <andythenorth> currently using mud
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20:57:38  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2542 (New): 45t Dorstfeld tram costs too much to run (andythenorth) @
21:07:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 15:6a76bbd70b5f: Feature #2090: Snow-aware forests with growth ani... (planetmaker) @
21:08:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2090 (Closed): Snowaware forests (planetmaker) @
21:09:27  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1972:ee6a8565a4b2: Fix: restrict availability date for R... (andythenorth) @
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21:24:29  <Terkhen> planetmaker: maybe we should release a first version when snow aware oil wells are done
21:24:45  <planetmaker> might be an idea
21:26:30  <Terkhen> the remaining chains are related to the factory or the food processing plant (not trivial at all)
21:26:36  <planetmaker> in principle this set needs LOTS of climate / ground tile adoptions of many things
21:26:40  <Terkhen> there is also the water chain, but I just don't see the point
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21:27:04  <planetmaker> like temperate and arctic ground sprites for diamond mines etc
21:27:12  <planetmaker> esp. iron ore
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21:27:22  <Terkhen> hmm... true
21:27:39  <Terkhen> IMO most of the mines look nice, except above snowline
21:27:46  <Terkhen> (in all climates9
21:27:53  <planetmaker> yep. Which is also graphics work required
21:28:06  <planetmaker> actually all industries should become snow-aware
21:28:10  <planetmaker> (IMHO)
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21:29:01  <Terkhen> that might be even more complicated than getting cargo sprites for opengfx+ rv :)
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21:29:32  <planetmaker> Terkhen: might also be easier. It might be something we even could do.
21:29:35  <Terkhen> coding wise it would not be much work: we already did almost all animated industries that are not toyland
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21:29:49  <Terkhen> hmm... I couldn't draw even to save my life :P
21:29:58  <planetmaker> but easier doesn#t mean it's little work
21:30:07  <planetmaker> he :-)
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21:30:29  <planetmaker> well, I got already some iron ore mine sprites for different grounds
21:30:41  <Yexo> getting snow sprites for airports was not so hard
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21:31:08  <Terkhen> for industries that only require changing the ground it should be easy, but what for those that need more changes?
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21:31:37  <planetmaker> hm... no, I actually separated the mine from the ground
21:32:05  <planetmaker> which would be good enough actually
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21:33:32  <planetmaker>
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21:34:27  <planetmaker> adding some snow on roofs is not that hard either
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21:34:41  <Terkhen> hmmm... I don't understand those sprite sheets at all
21:35:00  <planetmaker> I once did a snowy version of the FIRS sand pit. Takes a bit time, but...
21:35:07  <Terkhen> some sprites have both part of the building and the ground
21:35:20  <planetmaker> that's copied straight from opengfx.
21:35:36  <Yexo> Terkhen: in those cases there is no building, the building is blend in with the ground
21:35:46  <Yexo> you'll notice the difference when you make bulidings invisible in-game
21:38:17  <planetmaker> yes. quite not nice, if you ask me ;-)
21:38:19  <Terkhen> hmm... with the iron ore mine I don't notice any difference between transparent / non transparent
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21:40:03  <planetmaker> that's the point ;-)
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21:40:52  <planetmaker> it's basically a 4x4 ground-tile only industry
21:41:18  <planetmaker> the additional sprites are building stages
21:41:33  <Terkhen> other industries such as the sawmill or the coal mine behave better in transparent mode
21:41:43  <planetmaker> separating ground and building is something OpenGFX+ Industries could also do ;-)
21:41:48  <planetmaker> yes
21:42:09  <planetmaker> I'm quite unhappy with the steel plant.
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21:45:21  <planetmaker> however now I'm happy with my bed and with a good night :-)
21:45:35  <Terkhen> enjoy it, good night planetmaker :)
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22:04:49  <dihedral> \o/ ssl cert in znc ;-)
22:06:20  <Ammler> :-) znc does not need a restart to load the cert :-P
22:08:38  <dihedral> what??
22:08:44  <dihedral> arg
22:09:01  <dihedral> i hope that's a joke ^^
22:09:35  <dihedral> snap
22:09:55  <dihedral> well - i hope the cert is fine now for a year :-D
22:13:19  <Ammler> it isn't :-)
22:13:33  <Ammler> the cert will be checked on every call again
22:13:39  <dihedral> shoot
22:13:45  <dihedral> well, thanks for that hint ^^
22:13:59  <dihedral> do you by any chance know why my webadmin interface is broken?
22:14:01  <Ammler> well, according to psychon as I tested my cert :-P
22:14:32  <dihedral> by the way:
22:14:34  <Webster> Title: StartSSLâ„¢ Certificates & Public Key Infrastructure (at
22:14:34  <Ammler> (psychon is the main dev of znc)
22:14:35  <dihedral> you might like them ;-)
22:14:50  <Ammler> yes, we use those for longer already
22:14:55  <dihedral> ^^
22:15:02  <dihedral> i am considering the class 2 id check
22:15:14  <dihedral> in order to get wild card certs
22:15:24  <Ammler> it is the only valid free cert available
22:15:38  <dihedral> yes
22:15:54  <Ammler> I don't need wildcard certs, a new cert is made within 5mins
22:16:07  <Ammler> for new domains it needs 1-4 hours
22:17:58  <dihedral> yes, but i want to be able to run multiple stuff on one ip
22:18:07  <Ammler> SNI
22:18:15  <dihedral> yes, that would be the other option
22:18:30  <Ammler> works quite well, we run our stuff that way
22:19:10  <Ammler> one issue is that python < 3 doesn't support SNI :-)
22:19:35  <Ammler> so I had to set as default ssl server
22:20:04  <Ammler> but why do you care about IPs? I thought you bought a whole network?
22:20:40  <dihedral> 'just' a /27 :-P
22:20:52  <Ammler> :-P
22:21:08  <Ammler> we have 3
22:21:22  <dihedral> i'd try to get my hands on another one if i need more :-D
22:21:51  <dihedral> i do not mind paying the extra 40 eur setup
22:21:57  <Ammler> well, I rather would like to setup ipv6
22:22:04  <dihedral> that too
22:28:08  <dihedral> ops - think i just killed my web server
22:37:25  <dihedral> anyway - good nights :-)
22:38:44  <Ammler> knught
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