Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 21st April 2011:
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00:32:06  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
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03:17:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2550 (New): internal error with error / grf_future_status (planetmaker) @
03:30:29  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2550 (New): internal error when referenced string for error(...) does... (planetmaker) @
05:25:27  <planetmaker> moin
05:30:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 60:1871c6323f8e: Feature: Add plain tiles as company owned land as ... (planetmaker) @
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06:08:48  <Brot6> 32bpp-extra - Bug #2551 (New): GRF stops working if un-tared (LordAro) @
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07:19:58  <Terkhen> somehow yesterday I did not realize that we could release a grf compiled by ourselves :P
07:20:30  <Terkhen> heh, just offtopic comments
07:23:04  <planetmaker> hm, how do you mean 'compiled by ourselves'? You mean without devzone having compiled it? ;-)
07:23:10  <planetmaker> moin also :-)
07:23:36  <planetmaker> actually... I always do that. I usually just compare md5sums. Which I thus skipped
07:23:52  <planetmaker> And yes, Ammler, I was aware of the readme.txt not being properly compiled ;-)
07:23:57  <planetmaker> I hacked the zip :-P
07:25:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2552 (New): readme.txt not compiled (for releases at least) (planetmaker) @
07:25:32  <Terkhen> planetmaker: yes
07:25:43  <Terkhen> I was a bit sleepy :P
07:26:00  <planetmaker> also, I uploaded it as user openttdcoop. So you can update that entry w/o problems as well
07:26:04  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #2553 (New): Not clear to user that higher tram capacity =... (andythenorth) @
07:26:58  <planetmaker> do you have that login details, Terkhen ?
07:27:24  <Terkhen> no, I was not aware of that account but it makes sense :)
07:28:00  <planetmaker> you'll just have to logout openttd website probably and re-login ;-)
07:31:23  <Brot6> 32bpp-extra - Revision 40:0f97325ca355: Add: Signal sprites by Wotan (LordAro) @
07:32:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: if I build the readme locally, the .md5 file will be built too
07:32:57  <Ammler> (make docs/readme.txt)
07:33:22  <Ammler> so fixing readme might fix the the whole
07:34:05  <planetmaker> yes
07:34:14  <planetmaker> but md5 works for me
07:35:22  <Ammler> well, it should be built without need of the target md5
07:38:11  <planetmaker> yes, but it was built for me
07:38:46  <planetmaker> the make check for the source bundle succeeded here locally, so it was correct
07:40:33  <Ammler> yeah, check.md5 was built
07:40:56  <Ammler> I meant the other, which should be built with dunno
07:41:15  <planetmaker> hm, the normal .md5?
07:41:36  <planetmaker> ok, I didn't check that. 'make check' obviously builds that and compares it with .check.md5
07:45:34  <Ammler> maybe you should switch the names? I like the md5 without .check more for publishing
07:49:43  <planetmaker> they should be identical. And in the bundles.... we don't publish the .check.md5 but the .md5
08:00:16  <Ammler> hmm, but bundle_src does make the check.md5
08:00:27  <Ammler> hmm
08:01:19  <Ammler> just checked, definitly check.md5 in source bundle
08:01:24  <planetmaker> yes, exactly. It can't ship the md5 sums but the expected md5 sums
08:02:16  <Ammler> that's fine, but maybe you could switch the names
08:02:24  <planetmaker> I feel that it'd be wrong
08:02:42  <planetmaker> As when you then actually build the md5 sums, you'll expect them to be *.md5
08:02:46  <planetmaker> and not *.check.md5
08:02:52  <Ammler> why?
08:03:04  <Ammler> if so, would I ask to switch them?
08:03:12  <planetmaker> yes :-P
08:03:50  <Ammler> we publish %{version}.md5
08:04:04  <Ammler> so this should be the smae file as in the source bundle, imo
08:04:07  <planetmaker> yes. And that should be what make md5 returns
08:04:36  <planetmaker> nope. When building from source you should be able to generate that file
08:04:49  <planetmaker> and we additionally provide means to check with *our* md5.
08:05:36  <planetmaker> you're basically asking for "make md5" to behave differently on the CF and the other users
08:05:52  <planetmaker> and just switching the file names without behaviour change: why?
08:06:13  <Ammler> because the name doesn't matter
08:06:20  <Ammler> and it would look nicer
08:06:59  <Ammler> I mean, that is simple definition, which md5 is what
08:07:23  <planetmaker> The definition of *.md5 is: it's the md5sum of *
08:07:27  <planetmaker> and not of *.check
08:08:20  <Ammler> yes, so simple change that defination :-)
08:08:28  <planetmaker> I don't see why the default file being generated should be *.check.md5 instead of *.md5
08:08:40  <planetmaker> that'd be quite stupid IMHO
08:09:31  <planetmaker> at least I'd not understand the logic at all ;-)
08:09:35  <Ammler> ok, didn't think it matters, never mind then
08:10:02  <Ammler> as said, there is no logic, just definition
08:10:38  <planetmaker> the convention is to offer blub.whatever for download and to offer blub.whatever.md5 for download as well. We do that
08:10:58  <planetmaker> and that md5sum is generated by - "make md5"
08:11:23  <planetmaker> at least for the grf itself
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14:04:19  <planetmaker> <-- something like that sensible, Terkhen ?
14:05:44  <Terkhen> s/Deaktivating/Deactivating/
14:05:50  <Terkhen> or maybe "OpenGFX+ has been disabled"
14:06:31  <Terkhen> it looks great :)
14:08:26  <Terkhen> and that reminds me of what I was forgetting... I wanted to add switches for "open oil wells after 1950" and "increase production for oil wells"
14:13:02  <planetmaker> he... deaktivating is a clear mix of German and English. And disabled is even better.
14:14:36  <planetmaker> I now have also the sprites for the gold min arctic without ground. Thus what I did for iron ore could now be done there, too. Same with diamonds.
14:14:41  <planetmaker> *mine
14:15:04  <planetmaker> Just a bit colour-sensitive selecting and overpainting with blue ;-)
14:17:29  <planetmaker> it would be so much more be a joy helping andy, if FIRS was written in NML ... :-(
14:19:04  <Terkhen> same here
14:19:12  <Terkhen> but nfo is too complicated for me :P
14:20:13  <planetmaker> in essence yes. Not that I can't understand it in principle. But I don't remember all those hex values and syntax. Thus I don't quickly recognize the key elements. Thus everything lasts incredibly long, which is not really fun
14:32:51  <Ammler> hmm, shouldn't you also merge the manual industry with this or are those compatible?
14:33:40  <Ammler> also station names
14:35:25  <Terkhen> station names is missing too, yes
14:35:57  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, both of it could and possibly should be merged
14:36:21  <Terkhen> but we don't have the code of station names, right?
14:36:25  <Ammler> so not compatible?
14:36:41  <planetmaker> might be compatible. Dunno, I didn't test
14:36:57  <Terkhen> IIRC it is just an action 0 property, and we are already redefining all industries
14:37:02  <planetmaker> But I guess it might be incompatible as it re-defines the CB flags
14:37:12  <planetmaker> hm... maybe
14:37:26  <Terkhen> I was talking about station names, I don't know about manual industries :)
14:37:33  <planetmaker> oh, he :-)
14:37:44  <planetmaker> Yeah, might be an easy thing to improve
14:38:52  <Ammler> I also think about distributing ogfx+ with opengfx :-)
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14:40:06  <Terkhen> hmm... but many parts of ogfx+ are not complete
14:40:49  <Ammler> well, not officially
14:40:50  <planetmaker> actually none ;-)
14:40:58  <Ammler> just with the suse rpm
14:46:05  <Ammler> is ([UNIV] Snow Aware Arctic Buildings v1.0) needed for ogfx?
14:46:06  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [UNIV] Snow Aware Arctic Buildings v1.0 (at
14:46:27  <Terkhen> I thought normal buildings are already snow aware
14:46:35  <Ammler> that sounds for me like a useless newgrf
14:46:58  <planetmaker> to me mostly, too
14:47:19  <planetmaker> But the snow-awareness might not be idea... I found sometimes houses with snow where they should not be snowy anymore
14:47:29  <planetmaker> But I didn't investigate
14:47:34  <Terkhen> but is that intended?
14:47:47  <Terkhen> I don't remember spotting any problem with that, even with changing snowline
14:48:25  <Ammler> oh, the transmitter seems not snow aware?
14:49:16  <planetmaker> nope
14:49:23  <Yexo> IIRC the default houses are not actually snowaware. Some houses can only be build above the snowline, some only below. However none of them changes appearance with a variable snowline
14:49:28  <Ammler> something for ogfx+landscape :-)
14:49:48  <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm not sure it can be really changed with opengfx+ landscape.
14:50:02  <Ammler> I meant the transmitter
14:50:48  <Ammler> Yexo: the screenshot doesn't show that, does it?
14:52:42  <Yexo> Ammler: it does, is snows the same town with and without snow
14:52:54  <Yexo> the default buildings don't support that, they're either snowy or not and never change
14:55:07  <Ammler> ah, understood :-)
14:56:28  <Yexo> and about the transmitter: newgrfs can't change the default objects, so it's impossible to change the transmitter to make it snow-aware
14:58:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: your snowmod grf should check for the other newgrf :-)
15:02:16  <Terkhen> hmm... the "can only be built before 1950" behavior of oil wells happens in all climates or only in temperate?
15:02:33  <Ammler> foundations are still glitchy
15:02:40  <Ammler> use the lower point
15:02:51  <Ammler> thought that is fixed?
15:06:32  <Ammler> houses on foundations seems to be behave differently than roads
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15:51:05  <Terkhen> I'm testing the "oil wells can open after 1950" patch... right now I'm logging industry opening/closure in temperate without any newgrfs and it seems that no new oil wells open at all after the ones generated when the  map is created, no matter the current year
16:11:45  <Yexo> Terkhen: is that a patch for opengfx+industries? you might need to set prob_in_game
16:13:03  <Terkhen> hmmm... thanks, that's the issue
16:13:37  <Terkhen> it is a bit redundant to have a flag for it and also setting probability to zero
16:14:13  <Yexo> setting probability to zero means no oilwells at all, so no need for the flag
16:14:37  <Yexo> if you want to support them before 1950 but not after you need to set that flag and the probability higher than zero
16:15:34  <Terkhen> that's why I think the flag is redundant, since they have probability 0 already they don't need an additional flag; they won't appear anyways
16:15:51  <Yexo> why do they have probability 0?
16:15:54  <Yexo> isn't that a bug?
16:16:50  <Terkhen> <--- I have no idea, but the specs mention a probability of appearing ingame of 0 for oil wells in temperate
16:17:22  <Terkhen> I don't understand the reasons for defining a special flag for oil wells if they did not appear anyways
16:17:36  <Yexo> is the flag also used during map generation?
16:18:33  <Terkhen> it is used only in the MaybeNewIndustry() function, its comment says "Try to create a random industry, during gameplay"
16:19:56  <Yexo> they do appear in-game in arctic and tropic, so the flag is useful there
16:21:20  <Terkhen> hmm... true, I assumed that it was temperate only as the other one
16:21:31  <Terkhen> then I need three settings, not two :)
16:21:47  <Terkhen> thank you for the help, Yexo
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16:23:09  <Terkhen> now I wonder if it makes sense to set oil wells ingame probability to zero if oil wells + oil rig are in use, no matter the climate (and a separate setting to enable the probability no matter what)
16:23:18  <frosch123> hmm, there is a feature request for manual industries (i think by V453O00), to make the 1950/1960 dates configurable. can i forward that to ogfx+industries? :)
16:23:41  <Terkhen> given that I am already implementing it, sure :)
16:24:22  <frosch123> oh, i thought you were only going to enable/disable them (like i did for manindu)
16:24:53  <Terkhen> sorry, I misread you
16:25:02  <Terkhen> no, I'm only implementing enable/disable
16:25:33  <Terkhen> I'm not sure if making these dates configurable is worth the effort (I guess it would need a callback)
16:26:03  <Terkhen> for me it is only a decision between "always allowing them" or "keeping the game as it is"
16:27:23  <frosch123> yeah, so was for me :)
16:27:32  <frosch123> anyway, need to catch a train...
16:27:36  <frosch123> see you on monday :)
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16:28:19  <Terkhen> enjoy
16:29:57  <Terkhen> planetmaker: what's your opinion about oil wells probability depending on oil rig presence?
16:35:36  <Lakie> Hmmm... I fear I may have been a little too harsh.
17:15:43  <planetmaker> Terkhen: personally I'd define it somewhat independent of oil rigs. But it could have something like 1/2 of the probability of a new oil rig, if both are present
17:17:12  <Terkhen> hmm... two different settings then, one for "allow building after 1950" and one for "allow random new wells in temperate"
17:18:03  <Brot6> 32bpp-extra: update from r39 to r40 done (2 errors) -
17:18:20  <Brot6> chips: update from r134 to r136 done (1 errors) -
17:19:22  <Brot6> grfpack: update from r277 to r278 done -
17:19:43  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r23 to r26 done -
17:20:18  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r59 to r60 done -
17:20:25  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r32), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1972), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r30), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r604), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7),
17:20:25  <Brot6> metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r266), nml (r1313), nutracks (r185), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r638), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
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18:30:31  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 279:73c3e28da510: Fix: tip is no release tag (Ammler) @
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19:30:20  <LordAro> Ammler/whoever: the errors generated by 32bpp-extra on build are not important, yes?
19:35:45  <Ammler> LordAro: yes, of course
19:35:54  <Ammler> why else should they be announced?
19:36:28  <Ammler> it is quite a shame to have a grf building with errors
19:36:39  <LordAro> true... :)
19:36:52  <LordAro> any ideas what to do about them?
19:37:56  <Ammler> fix it?
19:37:56  <planetmaker> my suggestion: fix ;-)
19:37:59  <Ammler> :-)
19:38:00  <planetmaker> :-D
19:42:55  <LordAro> yes, to fix it... :P
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21:29:53  <planetmaker> hm, can't an industry tile have more than one ground sprite?
21:43:35  <SmatZ> can any tile have more than one ground sprite?

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