Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 24th April 2011:
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00:52:59  *** Hirundo has quit IRC
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06:23:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 41:3382fc2101c4: Change: [Makefile] Don't keep around endless numb... (planetmaker) @
06:25:28  <planetmaker> Yexo: thanks for r1317. It's great news :-)
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06:38:59  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2544: rpm (Ammler) @
06:39:50  <Ammler> Morgen planetmaker :-)
06:40:11  <planetmaker> moin Ammler. Frohe Ostern Dir :-)
06:40:29  <Ammler> schon fleissig auf Eiersuche?
06:40:39  <planetmaker> hehe, yeah ;-)
06:41:18  <Ammler> hmm, I guess the issues yesterday were already fixed?
06:41:43  <planetmaker> hm, which issues?
06:41:46  <Ammler> <Yexo> [21:55:42] Ammler: sorry for the assignment, only after I assigned it to you I figured out I could fix it myself <-- thanks :-)
06:41:52  <planetmaker> Oh, probably ;-)
06:42:02  <planetmaker> but dunno. I wasn't around yesterday
06:42:08  <Ammler> andy had a compiler issue and Lordaro?
06:42:22  <Ammler> well, what I see from my backlog
06:42:48  <planetmaker> well, lordAro needs obviously more instructions on what those errors mean
06:43:16  <planetmaker> dunno about andy... seems like a transient bug
06:43:23  <Ammler> LordAro: I would update the Makefile to the newest version first
06:44:05  <Ammler> move customizations to
06:45:14  <Ammler> or maybe rather start a own baseset branched from ogfx
06:50:28  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 267:990acdcb14bb: Change: [NFO] Don't use the nfoheader.nfo any... (planetmaker) @
07:20:40  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 268:fe58db90e7c5: Fix (r267): [NFO] Also remove nfoheader.nfo f... (planetmaker) @
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08:04:55  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
08:05:18  <planetmaker> mind you, I'd like to give your Makefiles a slight update. Any outstanding commits?
08:05:18  <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
08:05:32  <andythenorth> no commits
08:05:36  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 269:c03bd629719b: Prepare: Update changelog for 0.5.5 (planetmaker) @
08:05:37  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 270:d528770fbe73: Added tag 0.5.5 for changeset c03bd629719b (planetmaker) @
08:05:39  <andythenorth> got some work-in-prorgress
08:05:44  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of 0.5.5 still failed (#2368) -
08:05:54  <planetmaker> well, that's no issue. I just want to avoid needless merges ;-)
08:07:08  <planetmaker> ^ and that's a pointless CF issue with this project :S
08:07:08  <Ammler> fix it first :-P
08:07:24  <Ammler> it isn't
08:07:39  <planetmaker> what is the issue?
08:07:42  <Ammler> well, tell me why
08:07:44  <planetmaker> it compiles here nicely
08:07:56  <Ammler> compile worked but test failed
08:08:42  <Ammler> Executing(%check): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.CDd3l2
08:08:59  <Ammler> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.CDd3l2: line 26: pushd: example-newgrf-nightly-*-nml: No such file or directory
08:11:36  <planetmaker> I do get it
08:12:27  <planetmaker> as such I can't reproduce the issue
08:14:21  <planetmaker> or let's say: I'm not quite sure what the CF ties :-)
08:15:00  <planetmaker> hm... makefile.spec --> %check ?
08:15:22  <planetmaker> how can I test that locally?
08:15:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2532: version reported as 'unknown' for windows builds (Ammler) @
08:16:17  <planetmaker> my subdirs build the newgrf as well
08:17:23  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2532: version reported as 'unknown' for windows builds (Ammler) @
08:17:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: just run it like the spec does
08:17:45  <planetmaker> unless the makefile.spec also wants to test build the example-newgrf-makefile-rXXX-update-nXX directories, too. That must fail.
08:18:09  <Ammler> the spec is basically a shell script
08:18:36  <planetmaker> I don't quite understand what it does
08:18:51  <planetmaker> and how to run it?
08:19:15  <planetmaker> the reported error is no error, but an error of the test testing something wrongly
08:19:39  <planetmaker> or testing something which should not be tested to produce a newgrf, like the update things
08:20:10  <Ammler> just run the commands in your shell from row 33 in the spec
08:20:40  <planetmaker> it won't know the vars
08:20:42  <Ammler> and tell me, what is not understandable
08:20:59  <Ammler> ah well
08:21:14  <planetmaker> makefile.spec is not a shell script. Thus I can't run it in the shell either
08:21:14  <Ammler> pushd example-newgrf-nightly-*-nml <-- I see no var
08:21:32  <planetmaker> hg init && hg ci -A -u test -m "commit for test" 1>../%{name}-%{version}-testing.log 2>&1 <-- I see some
08:21:47  <Ammler> I didn't say, you should run the spec as script :-)
08:21:53  <Ammler> I said, run the commands in your sehll
08:22:27  <Ammler> so the command I pasted worked?
08:22:51  <Ammler> as you see, the vars in the "your" command are just the pipe to the logs
08:23:32  <Ammler> I wouldn't pipe to files
08:23:46  <planetmaker> pushd example-newgrf-nightly-*-nml <-- if this means that all those wildcard-ed dirs are tested, 50% must fail
08:23:57  <Ammler> you know pushd?
08:24:16  <Ammler> it is a simple cd with caching the current dir
08:24:28  <planetmaker> I didn't until 5 minutes ago
08:24:37  <Ammler> pushd <somewhere> .... popd
08:24:44  <planetmaker> but cd * doesn't work either
08:24:51  <Ammler> yes, so fix that :-P
08:24:56  <planetmaker> you wrote that :-P
08:24:59  <Ammler> or tell me what you changed
08:25:07  <planetmaker> nothing. It never worked since, I think
08:25:15  <planetmaker> or maybe I added the -update- part
08:25:18  <Ammler> since you changed what?
08:25:32  <planetmaker> thus a dir with update in its name must not be tested
08:25:47  <Ammler> well, you ignored it also the last time, maybe we should remove the test
08:26:07  <planetmaker> the test makes sense
08:26:16  <planetmaker> if it tested the proper stuff ;-)
08:27:01  <planetmaker> we have example-newgrf-nightly-rXXX-nml and example-newgrf-nightly-rXXX-update-nml
08:27:22  <planetmaker> the latter is tested and fails. Predicatably. Possibly I added that update dir between 0.5.3 and 0.5.4
08:27:54  <Ammler> yep, hmm
08:28:14  <Ammler> why is it called nightly in the release anyway?
08:28:33  <planetmaker> it just is
08:28:40  <planetmaker> :-) I guess we always did that
08:28:51  <planetmaker> could be changed, I guess
08:29:47  <planetmaker> hm... is there a good regex to cd into the first dir version but not the latter?
08:30:37  <planetmaker> or is it easiest to rename the name of the update dir to something like update-example-newgrf-nightly-rXXX-nml
08:31:26  <planetmaker> I guess
08:31:29  <planetmaker> hm...
08:31:34  <planetmaker> but it breaks a pattern
08:31:50  <Ammler> release doesn't have nightly in the name
08:32:09  <Ammler> example-newgrf-0.5.5-nml
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08:32:27  <planetmaker> I know
08:32:37  <planetmaker> as they're no nightlies it make sense ;-)
08:32:52  <Ammler> so cd example-newgrf-%{version}-nml
08:33:08  <planetmaker> hm, ho. but that will fail, too
08:33:14  <planetmaker> the update thing will fail
08:33:15  <Ammler> for nightlies
08:33:29  <Ammler> update thing doesn't test
08:33:30  <planetmaker> only non-update dirs are meant to compile
08:33:39  <planetmaker> hm ah
08:33:45  <planetmaker> missed the missing *
08:35:39  <planetmaker> so, that will work?
08:35:41  <planetmaker> let's see
08:35:59  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 271:5d94554feddb: Fix: Test the proper thing instead of always ... (planetmaker) @
08:38:09  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 272:eadc7a52fe73: Prepare: Changelog update for 0.5.6 (planetmaker) @
08:38:09  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 273:e79f651e786d: Added tag 0.5.6 for changeset eadc7a52fe73 (planetmaker) @
08:38:15  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of 0.5.6 still failed (#2368) -
08:38:24  <planetmaker> hm, sweet :-(
08:38:43  <planetmaker> sucks
08:39:33  <Ammler> it is %{version}
08:39:42  <Ammler> I guess, I wrote it that way
08:39:46  <Ammler> yes
08:42:12  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of 0.5.6 still failed (#2368) -
08:42:18  <planetmaker> aha
08:42:23  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 274:1cc02b7981cb: Fix (r271): Spelling is mysterious thing (planetmaker) @
08:42:23  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 275:b479f1b305b3: Added tag 0.5.6 for changeset 1cc02b7981cb (planetmaker) @
08:42:41  <Ammler> also you miss now support for nightly
08:42:57  <Ammler> but is that needed anyway?
08:43:09  <Ammler> I mean the "-nighlty"
08:45:13  <planetmaker> you're asking to change the way the version is displayed for all projects using this makefile
08:45:52  <Ammler> I think, "rXXX" is enough verbose to tell it is a nightly :-)
08:46:01  <planetmaker> it could be changed. But with NewGRFs I prefer to have it show ingame the nightly-rXXX
08:46:10  <Ammler> and it would also work, if it isn't a nightly
08:47:43  <LordAro> Ammler: thanks, but i don't think that i really want to change to project that much... (baseset) and as for the makefile... you mean the 'standard' newgrf makefile? i don't think i would know where to start there either... :)
08:48:15  <Ammler> then just fix the errors
08:48:31  <Ammler> what is the first error?
08:48:50  <LordAro> devzone or build?
08:49:13  <planetmaker> Ammler: changing that basically means to either remove or re-write support for branches...
08:49:20  <LordAro> (
08:49:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: I find/found it always ugly to have nightly there, specially, if you published a version locally, which in that case wasn't a nightly
08:49:53  <Ammler> e.q andythenorth sometimes published such versions too
08:50:09  <Ammler> nightly should only be available from bundles
08:51:10  <planetmaker> hm, that's both valid points. Let's see
08:52:41  <Ammler> LordAro: I wonder, if you are able to see the error there
08:52:52  <Ammler> I know that location :-)
08:54:13  <LordAro> well, what then?
09:00:38  <Ammler> do you know, where "make: [grf-def/32bpp_extra.nfo] Error 3 (ignored)" is from?
09:01:21  <Ammler> (I have no clue)
09:05:02  <LordAro> nope, you'd have ask GeekToo about that...
09:05:24  <LordAro> i g2g
09:06:57  <Ammler> I don't think he knows more
09:22:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1981:a03ab0591d24: Fix: Also ship the changelog (planetmaker) @
09:53:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth: Yexo Ammler Terkhen: would it make sense to skip the 'nightly-' part in displaying and using and just using something like and ingame "FIRS Industry Renewal Set r1981" without the nightly shown there, too?
09:53:33  <planetmaker> also maybe Rubidium and DJNekkid have an opinion on that :-)
09:56:22  <Ammler> maybe you could make it configureable
09:56:34  <Rubidium> what about <name>-<branch>-r<revision>?
09:56:50  <Ammler> we have no project with a branch
09:57:20  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's being used. But default branch is set to ""
09:57:34  <planetmaker> Ammler: FIRS
09:57:51  <Ammler> FIRS what?
09:57:55  <Ammler> :-)
09:57:57  <planetmaker> FIRS has two branches
09:58:03  <planetmaker> and default, of course
09:58:05  <Ammler> really?
09:58:09  <planetmaker> 0.3 and 0.4
09:58:51  <planetmaker> I just skipped menioning it as there's no project making use of it actively and currently
09:58:56  <Ammler> oh well, we didn't mean that, I assume
09:58:57  <planetmaker> but it *should* work
09:59:29  <Ammler> that would be stupid as it would make
09:59:34  <planetmaker> nope
09:59:42  <planetmaker> a tag asks for skipping the branch
09:59:58  <planetmaker> so either firs-0.3-r1394 or firs-0.3.3
10:00:09  <Ammler> ok, that makes sense
10:00:17  <Ammler> so skip branch if tag or default
10:00:22  <planetmaker> yep
10:01:23  <planetmaker> it would be easier to keep the default branch than setting it to "". That's what the nightly actually is about.... 'default' just renamed
10:01:45  <Rubidium> no, a nightly is a regular build of a particular branch
10:02:04  <Ammler> yep, but not the nightly here, that is what I don't like
10:02:06  <planetmaker> yes, 'nightly' is not the best renaming option for 'default'
10:02:18  <Rubidium> call it trunk ;)
10:02:30  <planetmaker> That's possible. Ammler ^ ?
10:02:31  <Ammler> that is default
10:02:41  <Ammler> which is fine
10:02:48  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. But we could just 'rename' default to 'trunk'
10:02:54  <Ammler> how ugly
10:03:02  <Ammler> trunk is svn
10:03:03  <planetmaker> which would fit in line with OpenTTD
10:03:58  <Ammler> make the branch configureable, set it to branch per default
10:04:12  <planetmaker> it is already configurable ;-)
10:04:48  <Ammler> then "-nightly" is a setting?
10:05:01  <planetmaker> yes
10:05:08  <Ammler> hmm, why do we discuss this?
10:05:10  <planetmaker> -DEFAULT_BRANCH_NAME ?= nightly
10:05:30  <planetmaker> +# DEFAULT_BRANCH_NAME ?= nightly-
10:05:39  <planetmaker> ^ this is mostly the discussion about ;-)
10:05:55  <Ammler> well, default should be changed to empty
10:06:05  <planetmaker> and whether the default should change ^
10:06:23  <Ammler> and we can set it to nightly at our server
10:06:41  <planetmaker> we could. I thought about that, too
10:06:53  <planetmaker> good or bad idea, Rubidium ? ^
10:07:02  <planetmaker> via command line parameter
10:07:58  <Ammler> he
10:09:01  <planetmaker> well, I want more than one opinion as I'm quite undecided :-)
10:09:18  <Ammler> what is the other option?
10:09:52  <planetmaker> to keep calling the default branch everywhere the same, also on our CF
10:10:22  <planetmaker> and trunk, nightly or default is the question ;-). But I guess we decided that 'nightly' is not good for every revision
10:10:25  <planetmaker> so that is out
10:10:25  * Rubidium doesn't really care ;)
10:10:31  <planetmaker> for the general case
10:10:33  <planetmaker> he :-)
10:10:59  <Rubidium> I'm not generally the one to need the nightly binaries
10:11:34  <Rubidium> and for grfcodec the compile farm overrides the naming anyhow (IIRC)
10:17:11  <planetmaker> I think so, yes
10:20:24  <Ammler> well, what should be used is another task
10:20:59  <Ammler> that using nightly more than once a night is wrong could be fixed
10:21:50  <planetmaker> how or where?
10:21:53  <Ammler> and you already support it
10:22:19  <Ammler> so the only thing is make default to empty and let project manager decide
10:23:53  <Ammler> [12:21] <planetmaker> how or where? <-- I assume it is part of Makefile.def?
10:24:04  <planetmaker> yes
10:24:07  <Ammler> so simply move that to Makefile.config
10:24:09  <Ammler> done
10:25:21  <Ammler> in worst case, people can still keep nightly- there
10:25:49  <Ammler> --
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10:26:13  <planetmaker> you can already do that. makefile.config overrules Makefile.def
10:26:25  <Ammler> yep
10:26:25  <planetmaker> at least in many cases
10:26:41  <planetmaker> default_branch_name is one of those
10:26:45  <Ammler> but it needs to go in .def or not beeing nightly there :-)
10:27:44  <Ammler> I could overrule it on our server, but I can't overrule what you compile locally :-P
10:27:49  <planetmaker> the default value for the branch has to be set in .def, yes
10:27:56  <planetmaker> yep.
10:28:13  <planetmaker> I guess I currently prefer to have default branch ""
10:28:20  <Ammler> fine with me
10:28:55  <Ammler> I wonder, if we need to set nightly on the server at all
10:29:45  <planetmaker> you mean to skip it there, too?
10:29:51  <planetmaker> would be fine with me, too, I guess
10:38:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: it is useless anyway
10:39:08  <Ammler> if someone like to have a branchname, he can use branch
10:39:24  <Ammler> so simply convert default to ""
10:39:32  <planetmaker> ok :-)
10:39:54  <Ammler> I guess, there is no need to have possibility to set it
10:40:09  <Ammler> you could also make a branch "trunk", if you like :-)
10:41:22  <planetmaker> well, I won't remove the possibility to set it. That's too much work :-P
10:42:21  <Ammler> does it also offer to overrule it, if you are in abranch?
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10:42:46  <planetmaker> no
10:42:52  <planetmaker> but let me check
10:42:54  <Ammler> but that would make more sense
10:43:30  <Ammler> ah well
10:43:39  <planetmaker> actually, it does.
10:43:55  <planetmaker> But I don't see how that makes more sense ;-)
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10:50:51  <Ammler> why should I be able to manually set branch, if the "real" branch does overrule it again?
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11:25:41  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 276:97e302b79352: Change: Use an empty default branch name inst... (planetmaker) @
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13:12:18  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 277:ca8816883c2f: Fix: Clean a few more generated files (planetmaker) @
13:17:35  <planetmaker> I wonder I wonder...
13:17:59  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 278:452c3461915d: Prepare: Changelog for 0.5.7 (planetmaker) @
13:17:59  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 279:f2e8f6bbeb4d: Added tag 0.5.7 for changeset 452c3461915d (planetmaker) @
13:18:20  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of 0.5.7 still failed (#2368) -
13:18:42  <planetmaker> ^ I give up Ammler
13:19:15  <planetmaker> I can't test it. And three releases a day is WAY too much to fix such issue :-(
13:19:31  <Ammler> does it work locally?
13:19:44  <Ammler> or why can't you test it?
13:20:58  <planetmaker> -bash: popd: directory stack empty <-- I get that, but have no idea.
13:21:39  <Ammler> so you didn't pushd before
13:21:57  <Ammler> just use cd
13:22:31  <Ammler> maybe we should change pushd to cd and popd to cd -
13:22:49  <Ammler> would that help you?
13:23:29  <Ammler> + make all bundle_src
13:23:30  <Ammler> error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.CtXgJl (%check)
13:24:01  <Ammler> for nfo part, does that work for you locally?
13:24:21  <Ammler> let me fix
13:24:53  <Ammler> do you want me to pull the xz changes from ogfx too?
13:25:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1982:58414a4527b6: Change: [Makefile] Update to Makefile... (planetmaker) @
13:26:01  <planetmaker> I'm not sure I'm fine to remove zip in favour of xz
13:26:11  <Ammler> why would you?
13:26:35  <Ammler> my changes do only add a target, nothing will be removed
13:26:45  <planetmaker> oh, sorry. Yes, then please do :-)
13:27:03  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1983:f42ba8fc9376: Change: use different ground tile for... (andythenorth) @
13:27:03  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1984:3e4a27ffe4b9: Change: Textile Mill appearance impro... (andythenorth) @
13:27:03  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1985:5a58c8c7147e: merge (andythenorth) @
13:27:38  <Ammler> also you can retag the same version with -f
13:30:17  <planetmaker> yes, I know. I did it once. But... that's somewhat bad, too
13:30:56  <planetmaker> 2x 0.5.6 and 1x 0.5.7
13:31:42  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 605:248f889d18ac: Change: [Makefile] Update to Makefile 0... (planetmaker) @
13:34:35  <Ammler> also why is there and
13:35:09  <Ammler> do they still work anyway?
13:42:31  <planetmaker> afaik yes
13:43:11  <planetmaker> they're for people who have the makefile repo and don't want to use the downloaded version in order to update other repos
13:43:24  <planetmaker> I guess there's only one such person, but nvm ;-)
13:48:19  <Ammler> well, worked for both
13:49:13  <Ammler> and I would guess, nobody is using the bundles
13:49:19  <planetmaker> hm?
13:49:39  <planetmaker> you mean the provided zips? I'd not bet on 'nobody'
13:49:48  <Ammler> was also for new projects
13:51:56  <planetmaker> hm, not quite
13:52:52  <Ammler> hmm, the test is fine
13:52:58  <Ammler> but the nfo example is broken
13:52:59  <planetmaker> won't suffice to create a new project. It will have missing files, like to doc files. or the dir structure at all
13:53:17  <Ammler> Error on sprite 1.
13:53:18  <Ammler> Fatal nforenum error!
13:53:20  <Ammler> make: *** [mynewgrf.nfo] Error 1
13:53:24  <Ammler> you seriously run it locally?
13:53:43  <planetmaker> yes, I did...
13:54:56  <planetmaker> hm... but yes, the current version fails :S
13:55:10  <Ammler> pull
13:55:18  <Ammler> and run ./scripts/check before push
13:55:24  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 280:bbd25e47e49e: Change: move script check out from spec (Ammler) @
13:59:07  <planetmaker>  //!!Warning (219): There was no Action 14 specifying the palette. <-- hm, do we want to keep it or should I set a palette?
14:00:59  <Ammler> set it to dos
14:01:26  <Ammler> or windows, whatever the examploe is
14:01:42  <Rubidium> then set it to DOS; that way people'll notice
14:01:45  <Ammler> does not really matter for other projects, does it?
14:02:28  <Ammler>
14:02:35  <Ammler> do I have a go?
14:03:56  <planetmaker> you do
14:03:58  <planetmaker> :-)
14:07:08  <planetmaker> Hm, I'll not set a MINV to 0. Authors should think about that ;-)
14:07:43  <planetmaker> Ammler: the example pcx are in windows. But doesn't matter. DOS could be promoted a bit ;-)
14:08:21  <Ammler> well, only the exmpale grf will use it
14:08:27  <Ammler> so it should be right
14:08:53  <Ammler> anyway, I don't change that, that is your part :-P
14:09:03  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 281:c4eeb8d84584: Feature #2499 (r630-631 from opengfx): add co... (Ammler) @
14:09:13  <planetmaker> yep, I know :-)
14:09:43  <planetmaker> The point is: anyone who starts a project, would just modify the header.pnfo. So adding there MINV=0 would continue to propagate without though
14:09:45  <planetmaker> t
14:10:53  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 282:db161c963ef4: Fix: [NFO] Add sprite counter sprite and acti... (planetmaker) @
14:13:03  <Ammler> but MINV=0 is better as no MINV
14:13:20  <planetmaker> Yes. But only when people thought about it
14:13:20  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 283:b09551a19259: Cleanup: Remove long-deprecated targets (planetmaker) @
14:13:32  <Ammler> and it is better to have that there to modify as to think self about
14:13:42  <planetmaker> MINV=0 implies it will be eternally backward compatible. No MINV means compatible only to itself
14:13:55  <Ammler> which is stupid default
14:14:03  <planetmaker> :-) I disagree
14:14:19  <planetmaker> same argument as the flip engine thingy
14:14:38  <Ammler> yep, I know, that is why I used stupid instead wrong :-)
14:14:58  <Ammler> you have silly logic but it is not wrong
14:15:34  <planetmaker> the logic is simple: an author has to think about it when he wants to keep compatibility
14:15:53  <planetmaker> that way it's made sure that it is rather true than assuming compatibility by default
14:16:11  <Ammler> yep, you prefer to have the errors on the grf/author instead on the user
14:16:20  <planetmaker> as default compatibility is not true, as various examples teach us
14:16:44  <planetmaker> the author does no mistake, if he does not change it
14:16:45  <Ammler> user like Eddi destroy the whole game sometime
14:17:14  <Ammler> mäh
14:17:16  <Ammler> not here
14:17:23  <Ammler> please ignore that :-P
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14:20:32  <Ammler> something else, you do simple overwrite the Makefile files on the other projects
14:20:46  <Ammler> so ogfx should not conflict
14:23:16  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature Request #2499: new bundle compression xz (Ammler) @
14:23:49  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #2499: new bundle compression xz (Ammler) @
14:26:38  * Rubidium wonders what Ammler's opinion is about disabling (company) shares by default
14:27:21  <Ammler> that has no effect on gameplay, so I don't care
14:27:22  <Rubidium> I'd reckon he would be against that as well. After all, the server owner has to set that correctly
14:27:37  <Rubidium> Ammler: it has no effect on gameplay?
14:27:59  <Ammler> and I assume, you can eanble/disable again
14:28:04  <Rubidium> lets enable it on a server with multiple companies and see what the effect is
14:28:23  <Ammler> but the flip patch needs recoding of a grf to keep the same gameplay
14:28:24  <Rubidium> although, (almost) free money doesn't affect gameplay
14:28:54  <V453000> it totally doesnt
14:29:23  <V453000> at the time you can afford a share you probably have enough money to build anything you want
14:30:00  <Ammler> share would be a good thing to replace the simple "give money"
14:30:33  <Rubidium> V453000: just start two companies, pay of loan, buy shares of other company. Other company gets becomes more valuable, sell shares at higher value. Continue till you've got enough money
14:30:56  <V453000> you need the company to exist for a few years afaik
14:31:14  <Rubidium> yeah, but that's quite easy... to achieve
14:31:24  <Ammler> Rubidium: you mean the other company rises value because you buy shares?
14:31:43  <V453000> still, money has no effect on gameplay, even if you made everything free or everything extremely expensive, gameplay would be still kept
14:31:45  <Rubidium> hmm, did I explain it wrong?
14:32:12  <Ammler> well, how does the other company become more valueable?
14:32:18  <Rubidium> in any case, with two companies you can get an more money exponentially
14:32:55  <Rubidium> (or maybe it was 3)
14:32:56  <Ammler> does it have shares from you?
14:33:09  <Rubidium> dunno by heart, just take a look at the flyspray task about it
14:33:42  <Rubidium> and... you say that money affects gameplay less than the orientation of an engine?
14:34:04  <Ammler> in any case, that is completely different task then "destroying" 90% of current grf just to avoid a little glitch in one waggon of a grf
14:35:16  <Rubidium> oh, you mean there is *only* one wagon in *one* NewGRF that is shortened?
14:35:24  <planetmaker> oh my, what did I do? :-(
14:35:56  * Rubidium ponders what other methods we can apply to destroy say 100% of a class of NewGRFs
14:36:18  <Rubidium> after all, "engine pool" destroyed many NewGRFs
14:36:32  <planetmaker> or "destroyed"
14:36:45  <Rubidium> no, they made translation NewGRFs *totally* broken
14:36:53  <Rubidium> i.e. they just didn't work anymore (tm)
14:37:07  <planetmaker> but how many were there? One?
14:37:10  <Rubidium> instead of: you couldn't turn around some engine
14:37:53  <Rubidium> planetmaker: we actually deviated from the specs on that point
14:38:18  <planetmaker> call it "re-wrote the specs" ;-)
14:38:19  <Rubidium> with the engine flipping we didn't deviate from the spec, as it *was* *not* spec-ed. Now it is spec-ed.
14:39:09  <Rubidium> but heh, I guess we won't be doing any form of daylength patch given the huge resistance against breaking the workings of (old) NewGRFs
14:39:52  <planetmaker> he. Well, as long as it doesn't break normal game speed...
14:39:52  <V453000> daylength patch? seriously?
14:40:14  <planetmaker> V453000: the idea is a very good one. Just most implementations were not thought through. If any at all
14:40:29  <V453000> I miss it from the idea ;(
14:40:35  <planetmaker> The NewGRF handling of daylength is a PITA
14:40:55  <planetmaker> more cans of worms than one may want.
14:41:01  <V453000> fine, but why even have such a thing...
14:41:36  <Rubidium> because some people like a network progression over a long time
14:41:48  <Rubidium> with vehicle introductions over a long time (in playtime)
14:41:50  <planetmaker> V453000: you don't have to use it. But you may want
14:42:05  <planetmaker> same with (y)cargod*st
14:42:09  <Rubidium> getting through all vehicles in 24 hours of gameplay is too fast on a 2kx2k map
14:42:19  <V453000> some people also might like to make trains fly and ships have tunnels
14:42:32  <planetmaker> yep. But that's different ;-). But already feasible
14:42:39  <planetmaker> Just newgrf it ;-)
14:43:08  <planetmaker> track type 'canal', engine type 'ship' --> ships with tunnels
14:43:18  <planetmaker> though ship tunnels actually can be considered
14:43:26  <planetmaker> and flying trains... just re-define the graphics
14:43:28  <Rubidium> *glitch*
14:43:46  <planetmaker> small ships ;-)
14:44:18  <planetmaker> row row row your boat and alike
14:44:19  <Ammler> [16:36] <Rubidium> after all, "engine pool" destroyed many NewGRFs <-- none, you don't need to enable it
14:44:57  <Rubidium> but then the new NewGRFs don't work
14:45:27  <planetmaker> hm, not?
14:45:30  <Ammler> one thing could make your "feature" valid, when you introduced flip after the newgrf
14:45:32  <Rubidium> ah well, we're heavily screwing the NewGRF "standard" anyways
14:45:39  <planetmaker> hehe
14:45:48  <planetmaker> setting the standards is easier than following
14:46:15  <Ammler> player doesn't care about newgrf standard
14:46:24  <Rubidium> the flip was introduced after dbset
14:46:51  <Ammler> Rubidium: on ttdpatch?
14:47:02  <Rubidium> TTDPatch doesn't have the flip
14:47:09  <Rubidium> it's a Bjarni-ism
14:47:13  <Ammler> or you mean after openttd supported newgrf
14:47:30  <Ammler> I think, ttdp does have it too
14:50:24  <Ammler> also the only newgrf which glitches on flip isn't even on bananas :-P
14:51:07  <Ammler> so you broke 100% of the official bananas grfs
14:51:37  <V453000> ^
14:52:08  <planetmaker> removing a non - essential and not officially specified feature hardly qualifies as "breaking", eh?
14:52:36  <planetmaker> Or od I break my milk can when I remove the sticker from it?
14:52:39  <Rubidium> we also broke putting two parts of a multiheaded train into multiple trains
14:53:40  <Ammler> Rubidium: that doesn't sound bad
14:53:52  <Ammler> at least I never did that
14:54:00  <Rubidium> pff...
14:54:06  <Rubidium> you didn't...
14:54:15  <Rubidium> I never did flip engines ;)
14:54:28  <Rubidium> or wagons
14:54:39  <Ammler> yes, but you know 2 of 25 who flip engines
14:55:19  <Rubidium> and all of them have the ability to fix the NewGRFs they're using
14:55:41  <Ammler> to fix the mess you committed, you mean :-P
14:55:51  <Ammler> the grfs works fine
14:56:03  <Rubidium> to fix the mess Bjarni started
14:56:19  <Ammler> you = devs
14:56:45  <Ammler> don't blame the poor bjarni :-)
14:57:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: how is something officially?
14:57:34  <planetmaker> specs
14:57:49  <Ammler> isn't every code you commit to trunk or even stable official?
14:57:53  <planetmaker> implementation != specs
14:58:14  <planetmaker> it's the official code. But not the official specs
14:58:22  <planetmaker> which are noted in the newgrf wiki
14:58:29  <Ammler> since?
14:58:46  <planetmaker> always
14:59:07  <planetmaker> probably since iron was forged the first time
14:59:12  <Rubidium> "mea culpa" for destroying all object NewGRFs
14:59:18  <Ammler> well, never mind, I thought you added this flip properity as you removed the nice feature
14:59:24  <planetmaker> :-)
15:01:11  <Ammler> it was just a really bad commit and you can't admit it, that is quite sad :-(
15:01:31  <Ammler> I am sure, you wouldn't have done it after the disccusion we had
15:01:43  <Rubidium> oh, and frosch should definitely apologise for breaking at least 2 NewGRFs
15:01:46  <Ammler> but revert is quite hard
15:02:10  <andythenorth_> updating acceleration broke 100% of train and RV newgrfs
15:02:13  <andythenorth_> but meh
15:02:27  <Ammler> andythenorth_: not really
15:02:35  <Ammler> you can still use the old system
15:02:58  <Rubidium> Ammler: how can I still use the old realistic acceleration model?
15:06:12  <Rubidium> and actually I was in favour of removing the whole flipping as it's a hack
15:06:54  <Ammler> well, wouldn't make a difference
15:07:06  <Ammler> now it is like removed
15:07:41  <Ammler> another thing less for the player, another thing more the grf author
15:08:17  <Rubidium> well, the majority of shortened vehicles were definitely broken with flipping
15:08:44  <Ammler> they just had a slightly gap
15:09:14  <Ammler> and you didn't need to flip it, if you didn't like the result
15:09:35  <Ammler> it was freedome of player
15:09:51  <Ammler> but in 10 years, openttd plays all alone, no player is needed :-P
15:10:13  <V453000> 100% idiot proof then ;)
15:10:49  <Ammler> s/is needed/is allowed/
15:11:05  <Ammler> it's not even a option!
15:11:29  <V453000> well I use old revisions already, so I guess it doesnt matter much
15:11:55  * Rubidium ponders "s/flip/support/;s/result/bug reports/;s/did/do/g"
15:12:50  <V453000> Rubidium: this just is NOT a game for braindead people, if you care about bug reports created by IDIOTS, you are trying to make the game idiot friendly
15:13:07  <V453000> which, sorry, is bad imo
15:15:07  * planetmaker already has the AI play-test newgrfs :-P
15:15:18  <Rubidium> lets rip out everything that was made to please the idiots
15:15:24  <Rubidium> will make the game a lot lighter
15:15:25  <planetmaker> guess where my recent AI error reports come from ;-)
15:16:00  <planetmaker> hehe. That'd make for a very lean game
15:16:08  <planetmaker> Pleasing one single person ;-)
15:16:25  <andythenorth_> can I be that one person, thanks
15:16:26  <andythenorth_> :P
15:16:42  <Rubidium> bye content system, bye precompiled nightly binaries, bye path signals, bye error messages, bye tooltips
15:17:09  <andythenorth_> 4 out of 5 ain't bad
15:17:16  * andythenorth_ will keep path signals
15:17:17  <andythenorth_> thanks
15:17:19  <Rubidium> bye ueber strict command validation, bye version comparision in multiplayer, bye newgrf configuration storage in savegames
15:17:51  <andythenorth_> 2 out of 3 ain't bad
15:17:55  * andythenorth_ will keep newgrf confi 
15:17:55  <andythenorth_> g
15:18:01  <andythenorth_> are we done yet?
15:18:04  <andythenorth_> ;)
15:18:42  <Rubidium> no, but I'm having to peel the asparagus to be able to not fall of my chair due to a low sugar level ;)
15:19:58  <planetmaker> :-)
15:20:18  <andythenorth_> oooh
15:20:22  <andythenorth_> YACD
15:22:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 42:2dea54acfbd5: Fix #2558: Improve ground awareness of oil wells (planetmaker) @
15:22:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2558 (Closed): Ground tile of oil wells in tropic (planetmaker) @
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15:31:39  * andythenorth_ considers painting a large CC stripe along the textile mill
16:01:07  * andythenorth_ doesn't do that
16:01:13  * andythenorth_ does put back a white stripe
16:31:28  <Rubidium> yeah, YACD is also for idiots that can't get transfers right ;)
16:40:20  * Rubidium wonders whether to consider OpenGFX/OpenMSX/OpenSFX as things made for the idiots that can't get an official TTD CD
16:40:44  <Rubidium> the error message linking to the readme definitely is made for those idiots
16:41:20  <Rubidium> - Feature: GUI setting to disable reversing at signals (r21962)
16:41:26  <Rubidium> ^ also for the "idiots"
16:41:38  * andythenorth_ wonders which idiots FISH is for
16:42:47  <Rubidium> don't know, what complaints did trigger you to make it?
16:43:42  <Rubidium> - Feature: Store the used OpenTTD version, base graphics set, NewGRFs and AIs in the PNG screenshots (r21558, r21553)
16:44:02  <Rubidium> also made for the idiots, well... for preventing discussions with those idiots
16:46:10  <Rubidium> - Change: Name invalid engines, cargos and industries 'invalid', if the player removed the supplying NewGRFs, hide invalid engines from the purchase list (r19879, r19877)
16:46:46  * Rubidium wonders whether to continue with things implemented due to idiots
16:47:57  * planetmaker rememberst the OpenTTD 1.0 for iPhone
16:48:40  <planetmaker> quite a marvel, IMHO
16:51:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 43:57d8effd38cf: Fix: Make sure all tiles, including building tile... (planetmaker) @
16:51:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 44:a65dd81c66a8: Feature #2562: Ground awareness for the diamond mine (planetmaker) @
16:53:47  <planetmaker> hm, I think there are now no obviously wrong ground tiles anymore :-)
16:54:23  <andythenorth_> Rubidium: FISH is for idiots that can't figure out how to use trains for everything
17:10:19  <Brot6> nml: update from r1316 to r1318 done -
17:18:40  <Brot6> firs: update from r1979 to r1985 done -
17:19:12  <Brot6> heqs: update from r604 to r605 done -
17:19:35  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r266 to r283 done -
17:19:50  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r40 to r44 done -
17:19:57  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r32), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r136), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r30), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), indonesiantowns (r41),
17:19:57  <Brot6> manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), nml (r1318), nutracks (r185), ogfx-landscape (r60), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r640), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:23:24  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 7), ogfx-trains, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swedishrails (Diffsize: 7), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156)
17:27:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 45:601d01e692da: Change: Improve transparency support for diamond ... (planetmaker) @
17:39:13  <planetmaker> @base 10 16 3924
17:39:13  <Webster> planetmaker: F54
18:34:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1986:ad209aaede10: Change: added a greeble tile to Texti... (andythenorth) @
19:08:49  <planetmaker> Terkhen: what parts need changing in ogfx+industries for the next release?
19:09:10  <planetmaker> I fixed today, I think, the last ground tile awareness stuff
19:09:17  <planetmaker> at least of which is important
19:09:26  <planetmaker> but maybe I missed something ;-)
19:09:48  <Terkhen> I fixed most of the other problems yesterday
19:09:55  <planetmaker> :-)
19:10:09  <Terkhen> I ran into problems with the factory / food processing plant logic yesterday
19:10:19  <Terkhen> I nested too much if / elses :P
19:10:33  <planetmaker> <-- so #2563 is void? as is #2561?
19:10:33  <Brot6> planetmaker: http: #2563 is "OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2563: Increasing temperate oil wells - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
19:10:34  <Brot6> planetmaker: http: #2561 is "OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2561: Cargo payment rates - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
19:10:46  <Terkhen> but yesterday it seemed to work with the default climate conditions
19:10:54  <Terkhen> anyways it is a big change
19:11:11  <Terkhen> if most bugs are fixed then it is probably better to release and test the big custom chains in nightlies first
19:11:29  <planetmaker> I'd not mind to not have this big logic chunk in the next release. Yes
19:11:52  <planetmaker> we might find bugs in the existing stuff that way easier
19:13:54  <Terkhen> hmmm... that would be ok, but not the parameters for actually changing the chains
19:15:43  <Terkhen> once I finish checking everything I'll start checking the logic :)
19:16:39  <planetmaker> So... should I prepare another release?
19:17:45  <Terkhen> I don't think I will have it ready for today
19:18:00  <Terkhen> so take your time :)
19:19:46  <planetmaker> ok, there's no rush :-)
19:21:49  <Hirundo> Yexo: Named parameters end up as param[64+] when exporting NML code
19:48:03  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 186:e75adc7e59fa: fixed alignment with low speed tracks (oberhuemer) @
19:48:24  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r185 to r186 done -
19:48:31  <Brot6> nutracks: compile of r186 still failed (#2510) -
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21:45:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1319:3be2de707b8c: Codechange: Process special parameter assignme... (Hirundo) @
21:45:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1320:45df46ef423c: Add: A warning when using parameters out of th... (Hirundo) @
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22:35:17  <Yexo> <Hirundo> [21:21:48] Yexo: Named parameters end up as param[64+] when exporting NML code <- that's intended, as it's far from easy to figure out which parameters < 64 are unused
22:35:50  <Yexo> my hope is that at some point in the future we can remove the use of non-named parameters altogether, freeing all 128 parameters for use by nml itself
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