Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 25th April 2011:
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04:34:10  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g42842995 2011-04-25 cargodist   (
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06:49:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: Ammler got a query about version numbers
06:49:26  <andythenorth> also morninnk
06:49:36  <andythenorth> I want to do a CHIPS release
06:49:52  <andythenorth> it's a small update, and I don't want to consume all the 0.x versions
06:49:58  <andythenorth> is 0.4.5 sane?
06:50:12  <andythenorth> probably not :P
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06:56:23  <andythenorth> it should be 0.5 I guess
06:56:54  <Rubidium> nah, just 0.4.5.... just to follow OpenTTD's releasing (mis)numbering
06:57:12  <andythenorth> yay
06:57:34  * andythenorth wants to arrive at a perfect 1.0 :P
06:57:36  <andythenorth>
06:57:37  <Webster> Title: Teleology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
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07:45:51  * andythenorth had better do CHIPS 0.5 :P
07:47:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth: if it's really small... why not 0.4.1?
07:47:33  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 137:2abbd633472f: Change: update changelog prior to 0.5 release (andythenorth) @
07:47:40  <planetmaker> ok, nvm :-P
07:49:05  <andythenorth> 0.4.1 seems like a bug fix release
07:49:09  <andythenorth> whereas this is features :)
08:04:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the tunnels are supposed to be stone, or concrete?
08:05:50  <planetmaker> hm, I drew them as concrete with a stone portal.
08:13:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the pieces along the sides - with black verticals - fences or stones?
08:13:46  <planetmaker> stones
08:14:25  <andythenorth> ok
08:14:31  <andythenorth> give me a few more minutes...
08:14:40  <planetmaker> it could also be completely stone... But the original inspiration looks like stone and concrete to me, too (see 'old').
08:32:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the original is not 100% gpl? :P
08:33:04  <andythenorth> I think it may have borrowed some of the ttd portal
08:33:30  <andythenorth> I take that back
08:33:35  <andythenorth> it's just similar
08:33:58  * andythenorth would have done the same thing if drawing tunnels
08:36:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's 100% GPL. Especially of what I showed. I drew completely from scratch. And Irwe as well. So...
08:36:49  <andythenorth> yarp
08:36:56  * andythenorth needs more coffee
08:37:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
08:37:06  <andythenorth> not sure it's much better :P
08:37:48  <andythenorth> it's technically more correct
08:37:50  <planetmaker> The metal tube? ;-)
08:37:54  <andythenorth> but may not be pleasing
08:38:21  <andythenorth> well...
08:38:22  <andythenorth> :)
08:38:37  <andythenorth> the shading for 'rock' in TTD is about the same as the shading for 'metal'
08:38:45  <andythenorth> I have one idea
08:38:58  <andythenorth> but tbh, the portals need fixing better to make it look good
08:39:19  <planetmaker> yes. I didn't manage to get 'perfect' stones, just 'mediocre' level. I know
08:39:32  <planetmaker> I'm not really satisfied with my stones there either
08:39:36  <planetmaker> Irwe did it better
08:42:28  <planetmaker> I specifically made the concrete much less 'shiny', avoiding (most) of its bright colours (as you can see in the intermediate step, I was there already, even more polished metal tubes)
08:42:35  <planetmaker> to my big surprise I have to admit
08:44:39  <planetmaker> I get more and more the feeling I should learn some more pixel pushing... OpenGFX needs some fresh pixels
08:44:59  <planetmaker> but most people find improving those graphics boring it seems... :-(
08:45:07  * andythenorth is trying to learn pixel pushing
08:45:08  <planetmaker> and yes, it's more lengthy path
08:45:16  <planetmaker> haha @ andythenorth :-)
08:45:29  <planetmaker> you're one of this community pixel pushing wizards ;-)
08:46:30  <andythenorth> I am constantly correcting my own mistakes :P
08:47:22  <planetmaker> yep. you wouldn't be a 'wizard', if you weren't self-critical ;-)
08:49:04  <Hirundo> Yexo: problem is that it makes the NML output invalid, giving problems when adding named parameters to the regression test
08:51:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth: do you have 'ready-made' textures for certain materials which you then 'just' re-use?
08:52:46  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 199:95c34a83d1a2: Codechange: Rename a parameter (planetmaker) @
08:55:15  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 200:7dc1e5aabfd1: Doc: Update readme a bit and add the recommended way o... (planetmaker) @
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09:03:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: no
09:03:40  <andythenorth> I copy what simon foster did generally
09:03:54  <andythenorth> if I'm stuck, I look at TTD graphics until I find something to adapt
09:04:10  <andythenorth> I've no originality wrt art style
09:04:14  <andythenorth> nor do I want any :)
09:06:41  <planetmaker> well, still you do ;-)
09:07:11  <planetmaker> but still you might have a collection of texture to use on certain occasions. But ... maybe not :-)
09:07:31  <planetmaker> I just wondered whether that's possible when I tried to shade the tunnels
09:08:52  <andythenorth> planetmaker: one alternative is to use the other concrete colour
09:08:53  <andythenorth>
09:09:00  <andythenorth> currently it looks gold
09:09:03  <andythenorth> but that could be fixed
09:09:16  <andythenorth> I flood-filled so the portals are also that colour
09:09:46  <planetmaker> how do you flood-fill with a paletted image? Photoshop does that?
09:10:10  <planetmaker> that's something I need to figure out how to colour translate one selection of colours to another, I guess
09:11:05  <andythenorth> I just use paint bucket in photoshop
09:11:12  <andythenorth> it can be contiguous or not
09:11:28  <andythenorth> i.e. replace all pixels of that colour, or just those adjoining current
09:15:01  <andythenorth> planetmaker: if you want to do it in grey - there are some shades to avoid
09:15:28  <planetmaker> the bluish ones ;-)
09:15:29  <andythenorth> there is one range of 8 greys that has some purple / blue in it, they will always look shiny
09:15:31  <andythenorth> yarp
09:15:47  <andythenorth> I have to fix that whenever I update a FIRS building :P
09:15:52  <planetmaker> I started wrong and had to re-do everything
09:15:54  <andythenorth> they're barely used in TTD as far as I can see
09:16:03  <planetmaker> :-)
09:17:14  <andythenorth> for the portals - you could look at TTD maglev portal
09:20:41  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 284:ea2ead055976: Fix: [NML] Don't try to scan non-existing fil... (planetmaker) @
09:20:59  <planetmaker> yes, that's a quite good one
09:32:30  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 201:951613753d52: Change: [Makefile] Update to r284 (planetmaker) @
10:00:54  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Feature #1223 (Closed): Improved fences (planetmaker) @
10:16:33  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- the logic for industry tiles is finished and works for the "default" cases
10:16:50  <Terkhen> but I don't want to repeat those huge chains of conditions again on the industries (as I need to change both acceptances)
10:17:49  * planetmaker suggests to make use of NML r1317 ;-) - but that doesn't change the logic, of course
10:17:52  <Terkhen> IMO creating new condition files for both the food processing plant and the factory is worth in this case
10:17:59  <Terkhen> hmm... let me check that r
10:18:44  <Terkhen> oh, that is quite nice :)
10:20:01  <planetmaker> yes, that's complex enough to warrant a separate file
10:21:01  <Terkhen> ok, I'll move them and add the industry acceptance changes :)
10:21:17  <Terkhen> I wonder if someone will complain that the accepted cargos don't appear in the same order
10:21:35  <Terkhen> I just wrote everything in an arbitrary order
10:33:58  <Terkhen> :O
10:34:04  <Terkhen> I forgot an important something
10:34:21  <Terkhen> conflicting industry types should change too :/
10:41:14  <Terkhen> this is getting quite longer than I expected :/
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10:42:03  <planetmaker> he... I just finished reading through. Looks good so far, though
10:42:16  <Terkhen> ok, thanks :)
10:47:19  <Terkhen> heh, and for wood, I have to check if either industry_lumber_mill or industry_forest is the conflicting one
10:48:04  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #2566 (New): High speed track graphics (planetmaker) @
11:23:57  <Ammler> andythenorth: you can also release CHIPS 0.1234.0, you aren't limited to 9 per 1.0 releases
11:24:16  <Ammler> pre*
12:00:06  <planetmaker> <-- way to go?
12:01:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: I like it but i would like shorter shores everywhere
12:01:50  <Ammler> (not just on those problematic tiles)
12:01:52  <planetmaker> could be done, yes
12:02:12  <planetmaker> well, sure, they'd be adjusted. That's why I have old and new in one image. I only messed with a few
12:02:17  <Ammler> current shores could then be part of ogfx+
12:02:18  <planetmaker> All are problematic at one stage
12:02:25  <planetmaker> how could they?
12:02:31  <planetmaker> OpenGFX+ would make it worse
12:02:42  <planetmaker> I consider this change a fix
12:03:13  <Ammler> oh, ok :-)
12:03:46  <planetmaker> I mean, currently it looks ugly in the corners. And there's also no newgrf-way to fix it
12:04:29  <planetmaker> If there were... then yes. But then, the extra newgrf already uses whatever is possible
12:04:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can work around it with proper terraforming
12:06:08  <planetmaker> terraforming?
12:06:12  <Ammler> I wouldn't call current shores buggy, just it can cause glitches on wrong usage :-)
12:06:43  <planetmaker> oh, they happen a lot. Just take a fjord-ish landscape. Or many fractal islands
12:06:54  <planetmaker> Which by no means "wrong" to use
12:07:44  <Ammler> yeah, in that case, I wouldn't use the ogfx+
12:08:06  <Ammler> just the shorter shores from default set
12:08:08  <planetmaker> well, but these things happen in auto-generated landscapes
12:08:48  <Ammler> well, change it if you can and see if people ask for the old big shores
12:11:05  <planetmaker> they might already exist in the existing (old) OpenGFX terrain (or however that is called) newgrf
12:12:12  <Ammler> if people would still like it, it would be nice to get those seperately
12:17:44  <planetmaker> yes, quite
12:18:08  <planetmaker> They could be easily kept as option in OpenGFX+ Landscape. It's a HUGE grf so far anyway
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14:40:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 641:a681251d8cc5: Change: Significantly improved transparency and building sta... (planetmaker) @
14:41:44  <planetmaker> amazing what a re-slicing can do
14:42:02  <Terkhen> :)
14:43:17  <planetmaker> <-- the unbearable transparency of it bothered me for long. Quite a bit better now
14:44:41  <Terkhen> quite better :)
14:44:53  <Terkhen> it looks as if it has been bombed, though
14:46:11  <planetmaker> :-D
14:46:35  <planetmaker> It's the initial construction stage basically what I use as transparent view. Right now. Could be changed to not show the walls at all, I guess
14:46:56  <Terkhen> it looks fine :)
14:47:30  <planetmaker> Most work was actually to puzzle together the building parts from various sprites. It was not using the concept of ground / building at all - even though it's one of the few industries which actually consequently for all tiles use it
14:47:36  <planetmaker> which is VERY nice
14:49:04  <planetmaker> most unfortunately don't use it (much). Which makes it sometimes a PITA
14:49:52  <planetmaker> but you're right. In transparent view the walls should go entirely
14:50:42  <Terkhen> I was just joking, I don't mind the walls :P
14:51:02  <planetmaker> nah, honestly you're right :-)
14:51:34  <planetmaker> the concept of transparency is - usually in this game, at least TTD - to just show a black ground where a building was and the normal one where not
14:55:37  <Terkhen> but IMO showing a bit of the wall allows you to know where are the buildings placed
14:56:15  <planetmaker> sure. But if you look at houses, or e.g. the farm: the house ground area is ptich black. The rest is normal ground
14:56:51  <Terkhen> hmm... true
14:57:04  <planetmaker> which IMHO is a good concept
14:58:43  <planetmaker> hm... I should look at the farm, too. It has many ground tiles. They all look the same currently
15:00:26  <Terkhen> these changes are for OpenGFX or OpenGFX+?
15:00:40  <planetmaker> OpenGFX
15:01:01  <Terkhen> ok :)
15:01:04  <planetmaker> but OpenGFX+ will, of course, also profit from better base sprites
15:01:42  <planetmaker> but it's clear how I got there ;-)
15:03:29  <Terkhen> :)
15:08:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2562: Ground aware "stranger" industries (planetmaker) @
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17:09:55  <Brot6> nml: update from r1318 to r1320 done -
17:17:45  <Brot6> chips: update from r136 to r137 done (1 errors) -
17:18:51  <Brot6> firs: update from r1985 to r1986 done -
17:19:16  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r283 to r284 done -
17:19:46  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r185 to r186 done -
17:20:01  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r44 to r45 done -
17:21:02  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r640 to r641 done -
17:21:25  <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r198 to r201 done -
17:21:27  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r32), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r30), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), indonesiantowns (r41),
17:21:27  <Brot6> manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), nml (r1320), ogfx-landscape (r60), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:23:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: <-- now we need to fix the file files ;-)
17:24:05  <planetmaker> hm, better yes ;-)
17:24:30  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 7), ogfx-trains, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156)
17:24:39  <Ammler> but else my change seems to work
17:24:57  <Ammler> and you have now a easy way to check locally
17:25:52  <Terkhen> planetmaker:
17:25:58  <Terkhen> I ended up ignoring conflicting industries for now
17:26:09  <Terkhen> I'll be back later :)
17:26:22  <planetmaker> k, enjoy :-)
17:26:30  <planetmaker> ignoring conflicting industries for now is fine with me
17:35:32  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 285:b1d56da1e0b2: Fix: 'nightly' isn't part of filename anymore (Ammler) @
17:37:01  <planetmaker> ^ ty, Ammler
17:38:19  <Ammler> btw. you can close #2499, I forgot to do that with commit and I am not member of that project
17:38:20  <Brot6> Ammler: #2499 is "Example NewGRF Project - Feature #2499: new bundle compression xz - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
17:38:49  <Ammler> I really should not commit something non .devzone to projects I am not member of
17:38:56  <planetmaker> I think I'm going to 'steal' soonish some sprites from FIRS... boxes, lumber, whatever on a ground tile ;-)
17:39:41  <planetmaker> indeed. But you didn't today
17:40:02  <Ammler> well, that is ok, isn't?
17:40:24  <Ammler> but the pull from ogfx yesterday was outside
17:40:46  <Ammler> I had your permission :-P
17:41:23  <planetmaker> yes, of course. The joke failed as it was just brot mentioning the issue and not you commiting something
17:41:33  <planetmaker> you should check the project's members :-P
17:42:07  <planetmaker> my jokes all fail today. I should only do serious stuff
17:42:09  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #2499 (Closed): new bundle compression xz (Ammler) @
17:43:19  <Ammler> he, also the xz adding showed me some nice features of make
17:43:27  <planetmaker> yes? :-)
17:43:46  <Ammler> the whole "automatic" dependency stuff is quite nice
17:44:06  <planetmaker> well, that is what is make made for :-)
17:44:09  <planetmaker> that's why I use it
17:44:29  <planetmaker> something which takes much longer to teach any kind of script
17:45:29  <planetmaker> it's powerful, but definitely has its bear traps as well
17:47:01  <Lakie> relative paths..
17:49:16  <Ammler> well, the whole templating stuff we use it for is not perfect :-)
17:52:17  <Ammler> also what confuses me is which commands are make, which are shell
17:52:59  <Ammler> e.g. this is a riddle: TEST_FILES = $(basename $(shell ls *.nml))
17:53:14  <Ammler> (from
17:54:23  <planetmaker> :-) $(basename ...) is a valid shell syntax. and $(shell ...) is there the argument to basename
17:54:38  <planetmaker> thus test_files are the filenames without paths
17:54:47  <planetmaker> iirc that's what basename does
17:54:51  <Ammler> and without extension?
17:55:22  <planetmaker> maybe, dunno :-)
17:56:23  <planetmaker> he, actually yes.
17:56:25  <planetmaker>
17:56:27  <Webster> Title: File Name Functions - GNU `make' (at
17:56:36  <Ammler> so not shell
17:57:02  <planetmaker> $(shell ...) is the only way to execute shell commands
17:57:10  <Ammler> ok
17:57:31  <Ammler> because you defined shell?
17:58:05  <planetmaker> well, you have the usual search path. But you don't have the in-built functions available without $(shell ...). And ls clearly is in-built ;-)
17:58:06  <Ammler> hmm, there is no shell= in that makefile
17:58:15  <planetmaker> it gets that from the environment
17:58:50  <Ammler> hmm, also not case sensitive?
17:59:03  <Ammler> as I don't have a shell, but a SHELL
18:02:49  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I'll re-add the default conflicting industries for now and commit :)
18:03:10  <planetmaker> ok :-)
18:03:12  <Terkhen> the other combinations of conflicting industries can be introduced slowly with each new parameter
18:03:21  <Terkhen> I'm sure this will break something, let's find what :)
18:03:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: the var names themselves might not be case sensitive.
18:03:42  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
18:15:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 46:8cba4e59c3f0: Add: Underlying logic for custom chains related t... (Terkhen) @
18:15:35  <Terkhen> there
18:15:50  <Terkhen> the parameters to make it work can be done for the next release :)
18:17:04  <planetmaker> ok :-)
18:17:11  <planetmaker> you want to make the release?
18:18:25  <planetmaker> <-- I use that for getting a first version of a changelog
18:18:48  <planetmaker> otherwise it will have to wait till I finished batteling the factory
18:19:07  <planetmaker> same graphical issue as steel mill. Just worse
18:19:26  <Terkhen> ok :)
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18:20:34  <Terkhen> oh, translations are missing :)
18:20:50  <planetmaker> hm... right
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18:23:27  <planetmaker> I'll add German
18:24:26  <Terkhen> ok, I'm on spanish right now
18:31:16  <planetmaker> added
18:31:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: hg id -n | cut -d+ -f1 -> hg parent --template="{rev}"
18:31:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 47:c78ffcf6675d: Change: Update German translation (planetmaker) @
18:31:51  <Terkhen> ok :)
18:32:09  <Terkhen> heh...
18:32:11  <Terkhen> I forgot hg add
18:32:20  <planetmaker> add?
18:32:27  <planetmaker> what does need adding?
18:32:33  <planetmaker> oh.. :-)
18:33:21  <Terkhen> is there any extension to mercurial that does some kind of intelligent patching? most of my errors while committing are caused by missing adds
18:33:37  <Ammler> mq
18:33:54  <Ammler> how can you use hg without :-)
18:34:17  <Terkhen> I'm always using it, but not on the repository I use to commit
18:34:32  <Terkhen> when I use patch -p1 -i ... I always forget to add the files
18:34:43  <Ammler> that is exactly the repo, where it is most useful :-)
18:35:23  <Ammler> specially together with qimport, qfinish etc.
18:36:15  <Terkhen> if I used qfinish then my typical error would be wrong commit messages :)
18:36:20  <Ammler> simply never use patch
18:36:30  <Ammler> use qimport or import
18:37:16  <Ammler> you can also add commit messages etc. to the patch
18:38:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 48:3f841c79a8e3: Fix (r46): Add missing files. (Terkhen) @
18:38:14  <Ammler> the way you edit hg history btw.
18:38:25  <LordAro> Ammler: do you have a (shell) script for automatically cloning ottd trunk repo?
18:38:44  <Ammler> LordAro: why do you need that?
18:38:59  <Ammler> does already offer hg repo
18:39:11  <Ammler> or you can use hgsubversion convert from
18:39:40  <Ammler> but that is acutally only interesting, if you have commit rights :-)
18:40:08  <LordAro> see last couple of conversations in #openttd - automatically cloning an hg repo
18:40:17  <Terkhen> that's too much commands to learn; I just need a patch command that automatically adds new files to the repo :)
18:40:29  <Ammler> Terkhen: then use import
18:40:39  <Ammler> hg help import
18:40:49  <Terkhen> thanks, that's the command I need :)
18:41:16  <Ammler> export does the opposite, if you like to extract something
18:41:21  <Ammler> before push
18:41:32  <Ammler> but not strip :-)
18:42:23  <Ammler> LordAro: I do a hourly hg pull svn://
18:43:29  <LordAro> but what about that must do it automagically?
18:43:45  <Ammler> yes, read a line before :-)
18:43:58  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 49:5a349c15f978: Codechange: Add ANY_GRAIN_ENABLED constant. (Terkhen) @
18:44:01  <Ammler> a cronjob runs that hourly pull from svn
18:44:38  <Ammler> or when the mq releases request it
18:45:02  <LordAro> i thought you meant manually :) can i see the script?
18:45:24  <Ammler> he, it is one line: "hg pull svn://"
18:45:34  <Ammler> that in a cronjob
18:45:58  <Ammler> what did you expect
18:47:55  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 50:68a8a5989397: Change: Update Spanish translation. (Terkhen) @
18:53:48  <Terkhen> oooh... long changelog
18:54:11  <Terkhen> planetmaker: the script displays only the changes since the last release?
18:54:58  <Terkhen> yes it does, it is quite nice :)
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19:05:00  <LordAro> Ammler: something to do with timings...
19:07:42  <Ammler> LordAro: tell what you need and you get it, don't make riddles :-)
19:09:49  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:10:31  <planetmaker> by default it does, yes. you can also specify a specific range -rXXX:YYY
19:14:38  <planetmaker> it also sorts by category
19:15:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1987:125663d2958a: Change: work-in-progress to improve W... (andythenorth) @
19:24:26  <LordAro> Ammler: how the script (or another one) automatically runs every hour
19:24:36  <Ammler> cron
19:24:58  <Ammler> that is the unix scheduler
19:25:10  <Ammler> no idea, how such things are done with windows
19:25:48  <Ammler> LordAro: why do you want such thing?
19:25:53  <Ammler> that is quite useless
19:26:08  <Ammler> just run hg pull before you start working and run hg push when done
19:26:34  <Ammler> no need to run scheduler on a working desktop
19:27:15  <Ammler> specially as a working pc is usually not running 24/7
19:27:53  <LordAro> i would forget :)
19:28:07  <Ammler> yes, you should
19:29:00  <Ammler> you really should consider to switch to linux, windows is not useable to work, just for gaming
19:29:12  <andythenorth> or the fruit flavour OS
19:29:15  <Ammler> (and office)
19:30:11  <LordAro> Ammler: i am currently on ubuntu :P
19:30:20  <Ammler> well, osx is also a kind of unix :-)
19:30:33  * planetmaker shamelessly stole FIRS sprites ;-)
19:30:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can't :-P
19:31:25  <planetmaker> sure I can :-)
19:31:36  <Ammler> oh, so you won't credit it?
19:31:42  <Ammler> '
19:31:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker: should I go somewhere and identify my work?
19:31:45  <planetmaker> of course I will
19:31:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yep, I'm afraid
19:31:57  <planetmaker> ;-)
19:32:15  <andythenorth> I'll just trawl the entire forum now then looking for it
19:33:04  <planetmaker> <-- find the FIRS sprite ;-)
19:33:14  <planetmaker> it's actually only half a sprite
19:33:34  <planetmaker> but I might 'steal' more
19:33:43  <planetmaker> I need something for the empty tile for the built-up factory
19:34:22  <andythenorth> the lumber?
19:34:24  <andythenorth> that's ISR
19:34:25  <planetmaker> yup
19:34:37  <andythenorth> think mart3p drew that
19:34:39  <andythenorth> maybe
19:34:47  <andythenorth> the crates are BenK I think
19:34:50  <planetmaker> well, boxes + lumber. I copied it from the furniture factory
19:46:25  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the parts in the machine shop are your creation?
19:48:01  <planetmaker> <-- revised OpenGFX factory?
19:49:13  <andythenorth> the steel is mart3p
19:49:32  <andythenorth> it's all GPL anyway :)
19:50:28  <planetmaker> hm... and / or I add a crane to the construction stage
19:50:38  <planetmaker> let's look through TTRS ;-)
19:51:10  <andythenorth> there are cranes there
19:51:16  <planetmaker> I know :-)
19:51:20  <andythenorth> my crane is somewhat over-used
19:51:31  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- just so you know, some strings appear twice
19:53:07  <planetmaker> hm, yes. But one should edit the changelog. Like "Update changelog for 0.1.0" should not be part. And Codechanges which related to changes between the version should probably also not be mentioned
19:54:06  <planetmaker> nor 'add missing files' ;-)
19:54:17  <planetmaker> which I usually have to delete from each changelog :-P
19:54:35  <Terkhen> yes, I was going to delete them anyways :)
19:55:29  <Terkhen> 0.2.0 or 0.1.1?
19:55:37  <planetmaker> but I don't see a string twice?
19:55:44  <planetmaker> 0.2 is appropriate IMHO
19:56:12  <Terkhen> planetmaker: the ANY_GRAIN_ENABLED one
19:56:27  <planetmaker> oh, thanks, missed that
19:56:32  <Terkhen> codechanges should probably be filtered out anyways
19:56:42  <planetmaker> probably yes
19:57:44  <Terkhen> do we need to update the Graphics part of the credits?
19:57:45  <planetmaker> but the script is mostly just a quick hack ;-)
19:58:09  <planetmaker> hm, actually good point, yes
19:58:19  <Terkhen> I'm thinking that a revised version of that script could go into scripts/ for all ogfx+ projects :)
19:59:32  <planetmaker> Gold mine is by Zephyris, modified by me. Same for diamond and iron ore. oil well is mentioned as 2006TTD, right?
19:59:58  <Terkhen> yes
20:00:33  <planetmaker> forest has no new graphics, so that is ok
20:01:12  <planetmaker> and if you feel like: "Feature: Animation for diamond mine"
20:01:45  <planetmaker> It was an easy c&p from the gold mine, but is not really mentioned in the commit log. Same graphics, same mechanism. Default graphics show the same, but still.
20:02:11  <Terkhen> ok, I'll add it to the changelog and update the credits in the next one
20:02:27  <planetmaker> ty :-)
20:03:09  <Ammler> hmm, what is the optimized nml for? nmlc --nml?
20:03:16  <Terkhen> <--- do you see anything else missing?
20:13:51  <planetmaker> The change for transparency of the diamond mine does not apply wrt 0.1.0
20:14:39  <planetmaker> and the same holds afaik true for the last line "Fix: Replace all building tiles..."
20:14:40  <Hirundo> Ammler: It's mainly a prerequisite for the nfo -> nml conversion
20:15:36  <Terkhen> ok, removed
20:15:45  <planetmaker> But no, nothing missing as far as I see :-)
20:15:49  <planetmaker> A nice list of features
20:16:00  <Terkhen> yes, it is bigger than the fixes :)
20:18:57  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 51:cc9a2ac58440: Doc: Update changelog. (Terkhen) @
20:18:57  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 52:792fc4586d49: Doc: Update credits. (Terkhen) @
20:19:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1988:0a3148c08fcb: Change: further work-in-progress to i... (andythenorth) @
20:19:30  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 53:9c51d0eb3916: Added tag 0.2.0 for changeset 792fc4586d49 (Terkhen) @
20:20:02  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from 0.1.0 to 0.2.0 done -
20:21:32  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 138:26ab407ca917: Added tag 0.5 for changeset 2abbd633472f (andythenorth) @
20:21:42  <Brot6> chips: update from 0.4 to 0.5 done (1 errors) -
20:22:50  <Terkhen> release day? :)
20:25:56  <andythenorth> yarp
20:26:00  <andythenorth> done, done, onto the next one
20:26:03  <andythenorth> mostly yexo
20:26:13  <andythenorth> although yours truly added some plants
20:26:18  <andythenorth> not hard
20:28:21  <andythenorth> now on banaananananaananans
20:29:47  <Terkhen> ogfx+ industries too :)
20:33:07  <planetmaker> release day :-)
20:33:21  <Terkhen> planetmaker: already on bananas, I'm updating the thread
20:33:46  * andythenorth ponders redrawing textile mill some more
20:34:03  <andythenorth> it's like a wobbly tooth
20:34:09  <andythenorth> you know you should leave it alone...
20:34:15  <andythenorth> ...but you push it anyway
20:34:51  <planetmaker> <-- better construction stage?
20:35:07  <planetmaker> Sweet, Terkhen :-)
20:35:27  * andythenorth has heavy equipment envy
20:36:32  <andythenorth> ooh
20:36:33  <Terkhen> you have a lot of heavy equipment already, who is causing your envy? :P
20:36:40  <andythenorth> that's a nice crane ;)
20:36:46  <andythenorth> you can never have too much
20:36:56  <Terkhen> then is greed, not envy :)
20:37:12  <planetmaker> :-P
20:37:21  <andythenorth> planetmaker: can you open .psd?
20:37:25  <planetmaker> It's a nice crane. But doesn't fit very well there...
20:37:56  <Terkhen> oh, I somehow missed the image
20:38:09  <Terkhen> IMO it looks great, planetmaker :)
20:38:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: mac can read it.
20:38:20  <Terkhen> but maybe one or two would be enough
20:38:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1989:6d91fef246a3: Add: png file for default constructio... (andythenorth) @
20:38:48  <andythenorth> a long time ago, before we started even coding, I drew some default construction tiles for FIRS
20:38:52  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, would. But the factory is actually 4 tiles. Used for each square
20:38:53  <andythenorth> they're not great
20:38:58  <Terkhen> the one in the upper part would have a hard time getting out of there once the building is created :)
20:39:06  <Terkhen> s/created/finished/
20:39:13  <planetmaker> It can drive out between chimney and building
20:39:52  <Terkhen> oh, ok :)
20:39:57  <andythenorth> lift it out with another crane
20:40:13  <andythenorth> drive it through the factory
20:40:25  <Terkhen> an even bigger crane
20:40:36  <planetmaker> <-- transparency shows there's just enough space. If hardly so
20:40:41  <andythenorth>
20:41:08  <planetmaker> Hm... thouse are nice tiles, too
20:41:09  * andythenorth wonders if that ground tile might be repurposed elsewhere
20:41:21  <andythenorth> opengfx sorely needs that nice mud+tracks tile
20:41:29  <planetmaker> Hm, so you guys like the crane and the factory with it?
20:42:01  <andythenorth> yes, why not :)
20:42:05  <andythenorth> players will like it
20:42:25  <andythenorth> honestly, the crane is fine
20:42:31  <planetmaker> then I'll go with it
20:42:39  <andythenorth> I wouldn't look too closely at the origin of the yellow girder it's lifting
20:43:06  * andythenorth is having a funny day about sprites that look like original
20:43:06  <planetmaker> why?
20:43:13  <planetmaker> he
20:43:28  * andythenorth must be suppressing guilt about stealing so much ttd paper mill for textile mill
20:43:54  <andythenorth> every pixel was drawn from scratch, but there was a fair amount of looking at 1600% zoom
20:44:27  <andythenorth> there is a visual distortion actually
20:44:33  <planetmaker> :-)
20:44:42  <andythenorth> there is a black – piece above the girder
20:44:54  <andythenorth> if that was adjusted to \ or / it would look better
20:44:57  <planetmaker> the alternative would be - but a crane might be nicer indeed
20:45:24  <planetmaker> eh... screen moved
20:45:49  <planetmaker> now it shows the 'old' construction stage
20:46:06  <Terkhen> it is better with the crane :)
20:46:25  <planetmaker> ok :-)
20:46:28  <andythenorth> new ground tile would be the best improvement you could make now
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20:49:20  <andythenorth> hmm
20:49:31  * andythenorth can't resist trying to improve that factory :|
20:50:05  <andythenorth> 1px dark grey line along base of all buildings would tie it to ground better
20:51:05  <andythenorth> along with dark red 1px line just above the grey
20:51:34  <andythenorth> and two dark red lines where the roof meets the walls
20:51:39  <andythenorth> each 1px
20:51:43  <andythenorth> one lighter than next
20:52:51  <andythenorth> meh
20:53:00  <andythenorth> it would be faster to do than describe :P
20:53:31  <andythenorth> but then nobody else learns :D
20:56:45  <planetmaker> :-D
20:56:48  * planetmaker wants to learn that
20:57:10  <andythenorth> got time now?
20:57:39  <planetmaker> I was about to head to bed, but I guess a bit time: yes
20:58:37  <andythenorth> ok
20:58:58  <planetmaker> so... grey base you say?
20:59:14  <andythenorth> yup
20:59:23  <andythenorth> needs to be subtle
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21:02:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: zeph's sprites are generally quite low in contrast
21:02:43  <andythenorth> there isn't enough variation between light and shade areas
21:03:09  <andythenorth> he also fell victim to the lie that light comes from the right in ttd
21:03:23  <andythenorth> but fixing all the roofs and shadows is a big project :(
21:04:05  <andythenorth> whoever wrote on TTDP wiki that light is from right has done newgrf a big disservice
21:04:18  <planetmaker> hm, say again, where comes light from?
21:04:39  <andythenorth> bottom right
21:04:43  <andythenorth> but imagine it's very high up
21:04:54  <andythenorth> look at ttd sprites and it's obvious
21:05:01  <andythenorth> looking at land sprites makes it most obvious
21:05:04  <andythenorth> but also buildings
21:05:10  <andythenorth> and it makes senes
21:05:25  <andythenorth> I realised that you'd always light an isometric game from bottom left or bottom right
21:05:45  <andythenorth> that way the face of building that player sees most will be nicely lit
21:05:53  <andythenorth> otherwise player will always be looking at shadows
21:06:10  <andythenorth> which are more (a) not as pretty and (b) cost more for your artists to draw :P
21:06:17  <andythenorth> so beauty + economics in harmony :D
21:07:37  <planetmaker> hehe
21:08:31  <andythenorth> anyway...
21:08:34  <andythenorth> I digress
21:08:57  <andythenorth> fixing the roof would be possible
21:09:11  <andythenorth> I did it for several FIRS buildings recently
21:12:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what tool are you drawing with?
21:14:25  <planetmaker> <-- yes, looks better
21:14:28  <planetmaker> I use gimp atm
21:14:45  <planetmaker> and I place the pixels currently individually
21:15:02  <andythenorth> for the best
21:15:20  <andythenorth> do you have a paint bucket or flood-fill tool?
21:15:22  <planetmaker> photoshop did not install on my mac
21:15:25  <planetmaker> yes, I do
21:15:27  <andythenorth> thought so
21:15:40  <andythenorth> gimp is pretty comprehensive when I last tried about 7 years ago :P
21:15:46  <planetmaker> :-P
21:15:53  <andythenorth> ok
21:16:03  <andythenorth> another thing zeph does is use a few too many shades imo
21:16:28  <planetmaker> I meanwhile know the keyboard shortcuts for many often-used things... ;-)
21:16:42  <andythenorth> there are some red / cherry shades in the brick that would be better removed
21:16:53  <planetmaker> shift+b is paint bucket, with shift+click fill all selection with ctrl+click fill with bk colour
21:17:00  <planetmaker> hm, yeah, maybe
21:17:11  <planetmaker> the noisy part by him
21:17:46  <andythenorth> there are only about 4 cherry shades, but they should all be swapped for the other brick colours
21:19:01  <andythenorth> the noise on this building is entirely resolvable :)
21:19:08  <andythenorth> with not too much work
21:19:49  <planetmaker> also in the horizontal stripe around the building?
21:21:00  <andythenorth> yep
21:21:05  <andythenorth> paint that flat grey
21:21:21  <andythenorth> I used the shade that is rgb 168 168 168
21:21:28  <andythenorth> or hex A8A8A8
21:21:39  <andythenorth> on the RH face
21:21:54  <andythenorth> and then darker on LH face...
21:22:14  <planetmaker> you're now talking about the whole stripe?
21:25:19  <andythenorth> the white element
21:29:34  <planetmaker> <-- current status
21:35:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: here's mine ;)
21:35:06  <andythenorth>
21:35:15  <andythenorth> only the bottom left 'module' is tweaked
21:35:35  <andythenorth> I ended up changing quite a lot :)
21:37:03  <andythenorth> wonder if we could diff :P
21:38:20  <planetmaker> <-- my current png file for sprites
21:39:40  <andythenorth> did the building change height? :o
21:41:58  <planetmaker> uhm... sorry. yes
21:42:09  <planetmaker> I adjusted the z offset by 2px
21:42:22  <planetmaker> was needed for the foundations to match properly
21:42:30  <andythenorth> ho
21:42:36  <andythenorth> diff is tricky then :)
21:43:05  <andythenorth> try this :D
21:43:13  <andythenorth> the lines indicate changes ;)
21:43:36  <planetmaker> changes in what?
21:43:49  <andythenorth> tweaks to areas of building
21:43:51  <andythenorth> from left...
21:44:06  <andythenorth> white line is solid, not bitty (you did that)
21:44:11  <planetmaker> it didn't move left / right.
21:44:31  <planetmaker> ah... nvm me
21:44:34  <andythenorth> :)
21:44:44  <andythenorth> yes, my method is not obvious
21:44:46  <planetmaker> please go on
21:45:00  <andythenorth> second line from left shows change to roof edge highlight
21:45:10  <andythenorth> third line shows blending of base of building
21:45:20  <andythenorth> (too much blending makes it blurry / odd)
21:45:32  <andythenorth> 4th line shows change to roof top highlight
21:45:48  <andythenorth> 5th line shows change to roof front edge highlight
21:46:01  <andythenorth> 6th is white line - you got that
21:46:19  <andythenorth> 7th line shows removal of roof right edge highlight
21:46:40  <andythenorth> that one could have been left, but it looked better to me to remove it
21:47:05  <andythenorth> 8th line shows I fixed line of roof.  It was completely garbled and so looks wrong
21:47:24  <andythenorth> 9th line shows  I fixed line of windows
21:47:44  <andythenorth> I think someone accidentally shifted part of the building here at some point, it's all 2px too high
21:48:05  <andythenorth> I also added shadow under roof line at that point (and everywhere else)
21:48:19  <planetmaker> oh... that jump there 8/9 is probably wrong sprite offsets
21:48:21  <andythenorth> 10th line - I moved all windows down so lowest window matches other
21:48:24  <andythenorth> ah
21:48:29  <andythenorth> that would explain it partially
21:48:37  <andythenorth> yes
21:48:41  <planetmaker> <-- see how it is cut
21:48:44  <andythenorth> that is the problem
21:49:15  <andythenorth> 11th line is more shadow
21:49:21  <andythenorth> that one is optional
21:49:42  <andythenorth> 12th line - I redrew the inset wall to be cleaner
21:50:18  <andythenorth> 13th line (final) matched to ground.  Inset wall is also notched in by 1px.  Usually looks better (not always)
21:50:49  <andythenorth> I didn't fix the big wrong shadow where the buildings join
21:50:58  <andythenorth> nor the windows on the SE face
21:51:05  <andythenorth> which are too dark by miles
21:51:22  <andythenorth> nor the roof on the RH building
21:51:27  <andythenorth> which is lit from wrong side
21:51:51  <andythenorth> umm
21:51:53  <andythenorth> that's it :)
21:53:18  <planetmaker> :-)
21:53:26  <andythenorth> hope that helps ;)
21:53:37  <planetmaker> yep, it does. Thank you a bunch
21:53:43  <andythenorth> most of the noisy ones are fixable
21:53:52  <andythenorth> the noise can be minimised quite fast
21:53:59  <andythenorth> the houses are less easily fixed
21:54:14  <andythenorth> but the industry can be improved
21:55:10  <planetmaker> Lots of work, if that all shall be fixed
21:56:00  <andythenorth> it would be worth bringing industry up to level of airports, tropic town buildings, ground tiles, trees, roads...
21:56:12  <planetmaker> quite so. yes
21:56:41  <andythenorth> anyway, bed time
21:56:43  <andythenorth> good night
21:56:48  <planetmaker> exactly. good night
21:56:53  <planetmaker> Well, I guess I'll check in the factory as is now and continue tomorrow with stuff :-)
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22:02:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 642:3cf0f77c03f5: Change: Re-touch and re-slice factory, improving esp. the tr... (planetmaker) @
22:05:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: you forgot to fix the sprite numbers :-P
22:05:48  <planetmaker> Yes and no.
22:06:42  <planetmaker> the numbers partially still refer to the numbered sprites in the png
22:07:12  <Ammler> well, you need the number in the grf to search for it
22:08:21  <Ammler> for the image, you have xpos/ypos
22:14:48  <planetmaker> I documented all sprite numbers
22:15:01  <planetmaker> not by sprite. But for every 4 or 3
22:15:18  <planetmaker> and you know where to look, if you have the filename
22:15:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 643:225a3d0496bf: Add: Sources to factory (planetmaker) @
22:15:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 644:896f307a31e3: Change: [Makefile] Update to makefile r284 (planetmaker) @
22:16:10  <planetmaker> use the nfo, if you need it continuously numberd ;-)
22:16:33  <planetmaker> using the xpos / ypos is FAR more time-consuming than the single sprite# in front
22:16:43  <planetmaker> which is also written visually in the image
22:17:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: would be nice to have
22:17:39  <Ammler> e.g. grep -r 2153 ./sprites working
22:17:51  <planetmaker> it works on the nfo
22:18:03  <planetmaker> compile once and do that. comments are kept
22:18:12  <Ammler> I just mentioned it because you edited it and maybe you remember next time
22:18:33  <Ammler> it is not worth to make a massedit for it
22:18:59  <planetmaker> It should not be done a mass-edit. It must at least be as well documented as the factory to be of use
22:19:30  <Ammler> yep, that is why I mention it, well on the factory you could "fix" it
22:19:37  <planetmaker> and as said: the sprite number as in opengfx' source is often written in the png. And that is imensely useful to see
22:19:49  <planetmaker> the x/y doesn't help there
22:20:03  <Ammler> you really look at those numbers?
22:20:14  <planetmaker> yes. All the time when adjusting sprites
22:20:43  <Ammler> hmm, you need those numbers to find the sprite in the nfo or in the png?
22:20:50  <planetmaker> to match nfo and png
22:21:05  <planetmaker> e.g. when sizes need adjustment
22:21:25  <Ammler> yes, but then you have the nfo
22:21:32  <Ammler> with x and ypos
22:21:41  <planetmaker> the number 42 is written in the png.
22:21:52  <Ammler> yep, but you don't search for 42 in the image
22:21:54  <planetmaker> to find that is easy in a prominent place
22:22:02  <Ammler> you have the image and you search for 42 in the nfo
22:22:08  <planetmaker> looking for x/y somewhere in the middle of many numbers takes FAR more time
22:22:19  <Ammler> use gimp
22:22:23  <planetmaker> I do
22:22:40  <planetmaker> what do you think I did most of today?
22:22:45  <Ammler> :-)
22:23:08  <planetmaker> a number written on the image next to the sprite is VERY useful, if found also in the nfo
22:23:11  <Ammler> you have x and y pos of the cursor
22:23:17  <planetmaker> not good enough
22:23:25  <Ammler> :-o
22:23:33  <planetmaker> not quick enough
22:23:43  <planetmaker> with the cursor I have to search with the mouse
22:23:47  <Ammler> well, then you should mention that in the ticket
22:23:52  <planetmaker> with the numbers I have one glance and I know
22:24:18  <Ammler> I thought we quite agreed on changing sprite numbers
22:24:42  <planetmaker> yes, we did. And I could have, probably then should have, written the real sprite numbers in the png
22:24:52  <Ammler> nah
22:24:52  <planetmaker> then it's a non-issue
22:24:56  <planetmaker> yes.
22:25:10  <planetmaker> or the wrong sprite numbers as comment in the nfo
22:25:48  <Ammler> well, you could list the sprites as comment in the nfo, indeed
22:26:32  <planetmaker> or that way. Doesn't matter really which way round
22:27:57  <Ammler> well, the nfo should have the sprite number, that would be nice and what we agreed once, it would make searching a single sprite much easier
22:28:17  <Ammler> else you need to count and calculate :-)
22:28:44  <planetmaker> In this case you need to calculate exactly x+0 ... x+3
22:28:47  <planetmaker> not too difficult
22:29:00  <planetmaker> :-)
22:29:12  <Ammler> 1+1 is already too difficult :-P
22:30:15  <Ammler> well, I see your reason, better do it that way as no way ;-)
22:36:01  <planetmaker> indeed I forgot about the sprite numbers, well, next time hopefully ;-)
22:36:17  <planetmaker> adding the real sprite numbers to the png is IMHO best
22:38:50  <Ammler> from nfo->png is no need, and the other way is no need for me but feel free :-P
22:39:03  <planetmaker> oh, there is need nfo->png :-)
22:39:27  <planetmaker> which sprite now has white and which is it? #2594
22:39:29  <planetmaker> hm... ?
22:39:33  <Ammler> no, there you really should use x/y from nfo, don't tell me that is harder
22:39:41  <planetmaker> well, I do.
22:39:45  <planetmaker> it is
22:40:00  <Ammler> ah, I see
22:40:12  <planetmaker> it takes at least twice as long to go by x/y, if not 3 or 4 times
22:40:12  <Ammler> well, you don't commit such thing :-P
22:40:31  <Ammler> and those numbers are for later, not when you work on it
22:40:49  <Ammler> then you are obviously faster with whatever
22:41:05  <planetmaker> well, the numbers are exactly for when one works on it.
22:41:09  <planetmaker> that's what it is for
22:41:14  <Ammler> no
22:41:26  <Ammler> then you make the numbers
22:41:30  <planetmaker> if you want just the real sprite number grfcodec the thing and you have it
22:41:36  <Ammler> but you need those to fix a glitch
22:42:05  <planetmaker> and also then you know it's sprite #2102 which needs a graphical fix. Thus also nfo -> png
22:42:05  <Brot6> planetmaker: #2102 is "OpenGFX+ Landscape - Bug #2102: DevZone compile failed - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
22:42:12  <planetmaker> :-P
22:42:28  <Ammler> ah
22:43:15  <Ammler> yep, then you look first for 2102
22:43:27  <Ammler> and not for 1997+15
22:43:55  <Ammler> you see, i already made mistake
22:45:11  <planetmaker> and still. if somewhat documented, it's easier than finding sprite 2102 at 620 / 1023 without label in the png
22:47:56  <planetmaker> basically all I need is a quick way to identify a sprite in the png which is a visual label and not via the x/y of the cursor
22:48:27  <planetmaker> because that really eats time, if not labeled. I noticed often that I find it always very helpful when I do have those labels from the old grfs
22:49:03  <planetmaker> and when re-working a number sprites which should fit, these look-ups really can become annoying w/o label which links nfo and png
22:49:43  <planetmaker> not so much for vehicles, as there it's sorted and often templated. But for other things, like multi-house or industries or landscape
22:51:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: but you can search for those labels just with your eyes?
22:51:42  <Ammler> I mean, some pngs have around 100 sprites
22:52:13  <Ammler> if I have the x/y, I don't need to search, I just scroll
22:52:49  <planetmaker> A consecutive label is faster to find and see, yes. There I also only need to scrol
22:53:06  <planetmaker> and some pngs have WAY more than 100 sprites
22:53:10  <planetmaker> they have 100s
22:53:18  <Ammler> :-)
22:53:20  <planetmaker> look at infra0X
22:53:27  <planetmaker> or industries010
22:54:01  <planetmaker> the latter is rather small in comparison to the first two

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