Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 11th May 2011:
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06:22:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 79:c01dda81a756: Fix (r78): Typo in string name (planetmaker) @
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07:16:17  <Terkhen> planetmaker: anything missing before release?
07:17:41  <planetmaker> not anything which is urgent
07:18:09  <Terkhen> ok :)
07:26:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 80:126e2416c8a3: Added tag 0.3.0 for changeset c01dda81a756 (Terkhen) @
07:26:31  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from 0.2.0 to 0.3.0 done -
07:27:37  <planetmaker> :-)
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07:33:51  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I think it is a good moment to start asking for translations
07:34:02  <planetmaker> indeed
07:34:04  <Terkhen> we have enough strings to keep them entertained :P
07:34:14  <planetmaker> haha. Quite indeed
07:34:22  <planetmaker> They're nastily long
07:34:31  <Terkhen> quite repetitive too
07:34:43  <planetmaker> I'm preparing a teaser screenshot at the moment.
07:35:02  <Terkhen> the descriptions of some chains are very verbose, but I prefer that than being confusing :)
07:35:16  <planetmaker> I fully agree there^
07:35:40  <Terkhen> ok, I was just starting the release post :)
07:36:19  <planetmaker> yes, please do. I can easily add that below your posting
07:36:43  <planetmaker> it will still take me a few minutes :-)
07:36:52  <Terkhen> ok
07:37:14  <planetmaker> I'm aiming again at one of my puzzle-tile screenshots ;-)
07:56:38  <Terkhen> planetmaker: done
08:19:16  <planetmaker> added screenshot composition
08:20:37  <Terkhen> nice :)
08:23:30  <planetmaker> people like screenshots ;-)
08:25:17  <Terkhen> even if you don't like customization, ground awareness only should be a reason for using the set :)
08:25:37  <Ammler> is that for downwards compatibilty or why have you unordered parameter list?
08:25:47  <planetmaker> no
08:26:00  <planetmaker> no reason. Ordering in the GUI and the numbers is independent
08:26:12  <planetmaker> or can be
08:27:15  <planetmaker> I guess we did not yet care or rather not even think about that
08:27:25  <planetmaker> at least I didn't
08:28:08  <Ammler> for compatibility it isn't too early for that :-)
08:28:49  <planetmaker> as said: order in GUI and actual parameter order is independent. We can simply re-arrange the order in the GUI without compatibility being affected
08:29:05  <Terkhen> I did not bother with sorting because unforeseen parameters have been appearing
08:29:29  <Terkhen> but I thought that we should make a resorting that would break savegame compatibility once the set is more defined
08:29:30  <Ammler> ah ok, if that works
08:29:36  <planetmaker> it only requires to give the explicit parameter numbers in the parameter blocks. And to arrange them in the order we like
08:29:50  <Terkhen> but if order can be changed without breaking anything... that's great :)
08:29:58  <planetmaker> now we don't define the numbers explicitly
08:30:08  <planetmaker> but we should, I guess ;-)
08:30:50  <Ammler> e.g. I would "group" the chains
08:31:19  <Ammler> or group the chains and then the subsettings
08:31:33  <Terkhen> yes
08:31:49  <Terkhen> for example "Oil chain, disable oil wells restrictions, disable oil rig restrictions"
08:32:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Code Review #2617 (New): Rework order of parameters in GUI (planetmaker) @
08:32:34  <Terkhen> I suppose it is not possible to make the order of parameters dependent of language, it would be nice to sort chains alphabetically
08:32:43  <Ammler> do you use own parameter for the chain enabler?
08:32:55  <Terkhen> what do you mean?
08:33:03  <Ammler> one parameter per chain?
08:33:15  <Ammler> or is that a bit only
08:33:16  <planetmaker> Terkhen: that indeed is not possible. The order is fixed by the action14 order
08:33:26  <planetmaker> that is by the parameter order as found in our code
08:33:44  <planetmaker> Ammler: each is a separate parameter
08:33:51  <Terkhen> there is at least one parameter for chain, some of them have two
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09:09:18  * andythenorth is lost in a world of ferries
09:21:22  * andythenorth doesn't want to do any more vehicle ferries
09:21:30  <andythenorth> it's stupid that they don't show vehicles when loaded
09:21:41  <planetmaker> well. The show vehicles
09:21:54  <andythenorth> I have some car sprites somewhere
09:22:15  <planetmaker> s/The/Then/
09:23:37  <Terkhen> IMO the current number is right, yes
09:26:10  <planetmaker> actually... ships are a VERY nice example that scale in OpenTTD world is arbitrary at best
09:26:34  <V453000> both in opengfx and TTD gfx
09:26:34  <V453000> water supplies have snow base tiles
09:26:41  <V453000> (even in temperate)
09:26:42  <planetmaker> a car shrinks from 16x8 pixels on the road to one pixel on a larg(er) ferry ;-)
09:27:11  <planetmaker> yes, that's not 'fixed'
09:27:26  <V453000> ok :)
09:27:39  <V453000> for opengfx+ industries 0.3
09:28:40  <V453000> oh ... it puts rubber and fruit plantations in tropic onto desert areas, is that known?
09:29:17  <V453000> I guess it doesnt have any restrictions since water supplies are on jungles too :)
09:29:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: scale is ...more...consistent with FISH
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09:29:59  <andythenorth> bye
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09:36:29  <Terkhen> yet another bunch of industry placement restrictions that are hardcoded in the default industries only?
09:36:53  <planetmaker> hm?
09:37:04  <planetmaker> oh
09:37:48  <planetmaker> water wells, rubber plantations, farms, fruit plantations, forests
09:37:57  <planetmaker> maybe gold / diamond mines
09:38:42  <Terkhen> given that I have playtested in tropic with all industries enabled, this proves that I don't pay attention at all to industry placement
09:39:21  <planetmaker> :-)
09:39:32  <planetmaker> probably the lumber mill / saw mill. Dunno
09:46:19  <V453000> and another, this time more problematic - I set tropic, wood produced in forests, and wood dropped at factory, and factory doesnt accept it
09:46:26  <V453000> guess I can open a ticket already eh ;)
09:48:41  <V453000> depending on climate doesnt work there either :)
09:49:02  <Terkhen> V453000: how many factory cargos did you enable?
09:49:28  <Terkhen> if you select more than three, some cargos will be moved to other industries as described in the parameter descriptions
09:49:28  <V453000> steel, rubber, copper ore iirc
09:49:32  <V453000> oh
09:49:33  <V453000> :)
09:49:44  <Terkhen> wood will be moved automatically to the sawmill then IIRC
09:49:46  <V453000> but in the chain of the forest, it didnt show any drop
09:49:57  <Terkhen> then that is a bug
09:53:30  <V453000> ok, the problem is that a 4th factory cargo isnt moved elsewhere I guess, right?
09:53:46  <planetmaker> you have no sawmill or lumber mill?
09:54:07  <Terkhen> probably it only happens in that case
09:54:13  <V453000> not automatically pm
09:54:22  <planetmaker> but you can build them?
09:54:31  <Terkhen> no, it is missing from the chain altogether
09:54:33  <V453000> dont know that
09:54:39  <planetmaker> ho :S
09:54:43  <V453000> probably, since it is missing it from the "display chain"
09:54:46  <Terkhen> the chain logic is just missing a corner case
09:55:06  <Terkhen> wood is disabled from the factory correctly, but the sawmill is not enabled
09:55:38  <Terkhen> V453000: can you check if farms behave correctly?
09:55:51  <V453000> if I add them to the factory?
09:56:36  <V453000> yes
09:56:41  <V453000> automatically set to FPP
09:56:43  <Terkhen> if the factory has more than three cargos assigned to it and some of them are farm cargos
09:56:45  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:00:50  <V453000> I guess I do not need to report it to the tickets then
10:02:39  <Terkhen> it is not a high priority bug, but it is still unwanted behaviour and a ticket will help that it does not get forgotten :)
10:05:46  <V453000> ok :)
10:09:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2618 (New): Wood in factory in tropic (V453000) @
10:11:28  <V453000> one
10:11:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2619 (New): Wrong placement of industries (V453000) @
10:11:38  <V453000> and two
10:14:33  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:16:30  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2619: Wrong placement of industries (V453000) @
10:21:19  <planetmaker> thanks, V453000
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10:43:24  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 81:9319eb5a5889: Add #2562: Ground awareness for water supplies (planetmaker) @
10:46:40  <V453000> very welcome pm :p
10:49:19  <V453000> I will put it on stable this afternoon so we can see something more :)
10:51:13  <planetmaker> that'll be welcome. To find all these missing spots and get some tests was honestly one of my motivations for this release
10:51:31  <planetmaker> Maybe Terkhen and myself can then quickly address these issues and then get out a bug fix release
10:51:47  <V453000> :)
10:52:50  <V453000> with opengfx it looks like if they had a private garden at the power plant area, and with TTD gfx it just doesnt fit :)
10:53:24  <V453000> powerplants behave weirdly in tropic too ... they have some rainforest tiles in them
10:54:01  <planetmaker> they're not changed...
10:54:38  <V453000> well they still look bad :)
10:54:49  <V453000> -> need changing? :)
10:55:03  <planetmaker> but then in OpenGFX, not OpenGFX+Industries
10:55:06  <planetmaker> but surely yes
10:55:09  <V453000> hm
10:55:24  <V453000> the base tiles are rainforest with both base sets
10:55:43  <V453000> cant opengfx+ change that? :)
10:56:01  <planetmaker> that can be changed, yes
10:56:16  <V453000> good :) shall I ad d it as a feature request?
10:56:41  <planetmaker> yes, please. Until now I didn't notice that they had anything else but brown ground tiles...
10:56:44  <V453000> ok :)
10:56:59  <planetmaker> which actually shall be replaced by something nicer, too ;-)
10:57:06  <planetmaker> could all be part of #2562
10:57:06  <Brot6> planetmaker: #2562 is "OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2562: Ground aware "stranger" industries - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
10:57:09  <planetmaker> maybe add it htere
10:57:23  <V453000> already created a new ticket -.-
10:57:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2620 (New): Power plants in tropic (V453000) @
10:57:43  <planetmaker> nvm that then
10:58:06  <planetmaker> smaller tickets are nicer as it shows progress better ;-)
10:58:15  <planetmaker> it feels more like 'I got something done' ;-)
10:58:19  <V453000> :D
10:58:34  <V453000> it also looks more "clear" to be that way tbh
10:58:48  <V453000> but hey, I just "cause" the tickets :p
10:59:35  <planetmaker> I don't complain
10:59:42  <planetmaker> on the contrary
10:59:55  <V453000> :p
11:01:57  <V453000> btw FIRS might be amazing, but original industries still behave the best way to fit gameplay... which results in opengfx+ industries being quite awesome, adding something new but already well tested in terms of gameplay
11:01:59  <V453000> me likes
11:03:00  <planetmaker> :-)
11:03:35  <planetmaker> that's indeed the intention of this set: nothing really new. But enhance the existing stuff
11:03:51  <V453000> I know, and I quite like it
11:04:25  <V453000> in trains it is ... nice but it doesnt change anything that much (yet at least) but the industries add some real nice depth :)
11:05:33  <planetmaker> I'm not sure how much more I want to add to trains. Refits will be improved a bit more. Generations for wagons will be enhanced slightly, possibly an earlier and a later version added
11:05:40  <planetmaker> But not now ;-)
11:05:57  <planetmaker> Vehicles are not that interesting to me currently :-P
11:06:08  <planetmaker> everyone does vehicles ;-)
11:06:12  <V453000> yes :)
11:06:16  <planetmaker> everyone is obsessed with them.
11:06:23  <V453000> Trainzzz
11:06:31  <V453000> o wait brainzzz :p
11:06:36  <planetmaker> in other places much more can be gained and done with much less work
11:06:48  <planetmaker> like this industry set
11:07:33  <planetmaker> Or actually also partially on OpenGFX itself... as I got used to handling gimp a bit better
11:08:22  <planetmaker> Like coasts got better... the missing gridlines in the landscape newgrf... things which IMHO add a lot to a game :-)
11:09:32  <planetmaker> and... I guess I could move OpenGFX+ Trees to main OpenGFX. They indeed look much better
11:09:45  <planetmaker> But when I look at those graphics in detail: they're not finished really either :S
11:10:51  <V453000> I would keep opengfx+ trees as they are :) so many possibilities in parameters
11:11:03  <V453000> you can select forests, trees in towns and what ever else
11:11:15  <V453000> but well I dont care too much about opengfx
11:12:34  <planetmaker> There are trees which are not finished in the set. Subtly so, but there are. Some trees simply have no growth stages
11:12:58  <planetmaker> And the tropical trees don't seem quite finished either
11:16:54  <V453000> :)
11:46:52  * planetmaker plays around with Zephyris procedural building tools
12:09:50  <planetmaker> hm... that smells like new houses for OpenGFX
12:10:13  <planetmaker> they look quite less noisy... something I'd like to see for ages now
12:18:27  <Terkhen> the bug with the wood chain could be easily fixed
12:18:39  <Terkhen> I would need to look at callbacks for the placement bug :)
12:18:55  <planetmaker> that's not that difficult either, I think
12:19:39  <planetmaker> maybe we can write a template for all industries which use that callback only...
12:20:05  <Terkhen> there will be two big groups; "do not appear in desert" and "do not appear above the snowline"
12:21:57  <Terkhen> would it be possible to make the tropical forest use different sprites?
12:22:36  <planetmaker> hm... not in desert and not in snow is very similar
12:22:43  <planetmaker> yes, that would be possible
12:22:51  <planetmaker> needed?
12:23:18  <Terkhen> not a priority, but the trees used look completely out of place in tropical
12:23:37  <planetmaker> make it a ticket :-)
12:23:51  <planetmaker> might be nice, but I think it has quite low priority
12:24:16  <planetmaker> hm... might be easy actually...
12:24:16  <Terkhen> indeed
12:24:24  <Terkhen> what is the difference between "Feature" and "Feature Request"?
12:24:43  <planetmaker> we define features. Others can make feature requests ;-)
12:24:55  <Terkhen> oh, makes sense :)
12:24:58  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2621 (New): Different sprite for forests in tropical climate (Terkhen) @
12:25:41  <V453000> good point :)
12:25:55  <V453000> I used forests with opengfx+ trees so they dont look _that_ bad
12:26:16  <Terkhen> but opengfx+ trees does not look very nice in tropical :(
12:27:42  <planetmaker> yep, they're not nice there
12:27:44  <V453000> indeed
12:27:47  <V453000> but well .. :)
12:27:59  <planetmaker> *someone* finish them please :-P
12:28:12  <V453000> better than to have super ugly forests in tropic :p
12:38:48  <V453000> I found some weird behaviour of the cargoes ... if I create tropic, add many industries, and add Tropic refurbishment set - which works in all climates so I would expect it to be compatible - then it is able to load all cargoes, but in incorrect wagons
12:39:30  <V453000> is that because the cargoes "pretend" to be something else and thus can be fixed by opengfx+ industries, or is that an issue with TRS and it cant be fixed without editing TRS?
12:40:20  <planetmaker> does TRS also work correctly with FIRS and ECS?
12:40:23  <Terkhen> my guess is that TRS does not implement cargo classes correctly
12:40:41  <planetmaker> ^ I'd guess on that, too, though
12:41:09  <Terkhen> since different cargos on each climate use the same IDs, opengfx+ industries had to move them around a bit
12:41:22  <Terkhen> if TRS uses hardcoded IDs cargos will get moved between wagons
12:41:39  <V453000> TRS doesnt work with FIRS afaik
12:42:00  <planetmaker> then it definitely is a shortcoming of that set
12:42:12  <V453000> ok
12:42:20  <V453000> which is bad
12:42:33  <planetmaker> yeah... TRS is not bad.
12:42:45  <planetmaker> Actually it's a GPL'ed set, so it could be changed
12:42:52  <planetmaker> IIRC
12:43:03  <V453000> because if I use 2cc set, and load iron ore in tropic, it looks like somewhat grey thing - which means that the wagons do not realize there is iron ore in it, therefore they do not get brown :(
12:43:18  <V453000> havent tried with opengfx+ trains for example
12:47:35  <planetmaker> hm, with the 2ccTS I'd have suspected they knew about IORE
12:48:25  <planetmaker> I haven't really tested it with trains either, but industry sets define the cargos. And the vehicle sets choose how to display them
12:48:33  <planetmaker> So... not really much an industry set can do
12:50:13  <Terkhen> I just checked to be sure: OpenGFX+ Industries sets correctly both the cargo label and the cargo class for iron ore
12:50:34  <planetmaker> V453000: I assume you talk(ed) about 2ccTS 1.0.1?
12:50:46  <planetmaker> well, that didn't have too bright sprite support for different cargos
12:50:47  <V453000> yes, 1.0.1
12:51:18  <V453000> 2.0 is unusable
12:52:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2618 (Closed): Wood in factory in tropic (V453000) @
12:52:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2618 (Closed): Wood in factory in tropic (Terkhen) @
12:52:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 82:3b78e06f809a: Fix #2618: There was no industry accepting Wood w... (Terkhen) @
12:52:52  <Terkhen> let's check placement now
12:53:08  <Terkhen> with placement we have a problem: some limitations make more sense than others
12:53:42  <planetmaker> you mean what V outlines in the task?
12:53:50  <Terkhen> yes
12:54:02  <planetmaker> so... again a 3-stage parameter?
12:54:13  <Terkhen> for example, water supplies would make sense on the rain forest
12:54:27  <planetmaker> yeah, they work IMHO everywhere
12:54:32  <Terkhen> I'm not sure I want more parameters
12:54:38  <planetmaker> forests in the desert... don't make sense
12:54:41  <Terkhen> maybe we should just decide which ones are logical and which ones not :)
12:54:52  <planetmaker> except... when the forest will become a prairie ;-)
12:54:56  <V453000> :D
12:55:00  <Terkhen> yes, forests in desert is a big no
12:55:01  <V453000> cactus plantation!
12:55:05  <Terkhen> heh :D
12:55:11  <planetmaker> well... I have planes for OpenGFX+ Landscape for such mod
12:55:23  <planetmaker> *plans
12:55:29  <Terkhen> what, cactus plantations?
12:55:42  <planetmaker> no, desert -> prairie
12:55:46  <Terkhen> oh :D
12:55:47  <planetmaker> how does it spell?
12:56:04  <Terkhen> I think it's prairie, yes
12:56:11  <Yexo> prairie is correct according to my spell checker
12:56:15  <planetmaker> ok :-)
12:56:36  <Terkhen> hmm... you mean savannah?
12:56:45  <planetmaker> it's actually for once a suggestion by Nekomaster which makes sense. Yes, I mean that
12:56:53  <Terkhen> yes, it would be good :)
12:57:02  <Terkhen> but... savannahs look almost like desert in summer
12:57:10  <Terkhen> :P
12:57:13  <planetmaker> :-P
12:57:25  <planetmaker> we have no newgrf landscape (yet) :-P
12:57:41  <Terkhen> IMO we should not take that possibility into account yet
12:57:56  <Terkhen> once it is implemented in landscape, we can check its parameters from ogfx+ industries and make changes accordingly
12:58:00  <planetmaker> well. But we should not make it too hard to implement
12:58:09  <Terkhen> nah, just more if elses :P
12:58:14  <planetmaker> because... it's a quite easy change in opengfx+ landscape ;-)
12:58:49  <Terkhen> if (climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC && param_in_landscape == ?) ...
12:59:00  <Terkhen> it shouldn't be too complicated to change it later
12:59:08  <planetmaker> let's make it - for now - an internal parameter. something like that, yes
13:02:22  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder if a savannah could look like the desert - rainforest transition looks now ;-)
13:02:57  <Terkhen> hmm... probably :P
13:03:12  <Terkhen> planetmaker, V453000: <--- what am I missing?
13:04:37  <planetmaker> Strange as it sounds: I'd keep farms above snow line.
13:04:56  <V453000> me too
13:05:34  <planetmaker> about lumber mill and snow line: we have forests above snow line, too
13:05:42  <planetmaker> wouldn't that be inconsistent then?
13:05:54  <planetmaker> actually forests above snow line are ttd default in arctic
13:05:55  <V453000> hm :) good point
13:08:56  <Terkhen> sorry, copy paste :)
13:08:58  <V453000> you forgot fruit plantations in desert/snow :)
13:09:00  <Terkhen> I agree
13:09:05  <Terkhen> true, thanks :)
13:09:36  <Terkhen> so... farms above snowline ok in all cases?
13:09:43  <V453000> I would say yes
13:10:03  <V453000> maybe make a parameter for that? :))
13:10:11  * V453000 likes options
13:11:27  <Terkhen> I'm not sure; I think that we have too much parameters already... there were some talks about moving all "disable restrictions" parameters to a single place
13:11:43  <Terkhen> once we merge all of the existing parameters in one, it could take care of farms above arctic too
13:11:50  <Terkhen> above snowline in arctic*
13:11:53  <V453000> hmm :)
13:12:17  <V453000> dunno I personally do not mind having a crapload of parameters in the menu
13:13:47  <planetmaker> Well, I don't mind much now either way. For now we could simply allow them. We'll need to look at parameters again anyway.
13:14:41  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Code Review #2559: check compatibility with TTRS (V453000) @
13:14:53  <V453000> just saw the banks do messy things
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13:15:48  <V453000> opengfx+ banks are just added and work, the TTRS ones break though
13:16:20  <V453000> not somehow importantly, they just stop accepting stuff ... or at least they did when I disabled valuables
13:16:35  <Terkhen> we plan to disable opengfx+ industries banks completely if TTRS is loaded
13:16:44  <V453000> oh :) wise
13:16:53  <Terkhen> I ran into some problems with the patch and it is still sitting somewhere
13:17:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2619: Wrong placement of industries (Terkhen) @
13:17:29  <Terkhen> ^ I'm going to start working on this
13:18:45  * planetmaker installs savannah add-on ;-) <-- @ Terkhen :-P
13:19:18  <Terkhen> hmm... it looks a bit strange, I think that the colour should be more uniform
13:19:29  <Terkhen> it will also need to change trees
13:19:31  <V453000> oh shit :D
13:19:52  <planetmaker> yep, this is now a simple replacement of only the desert ground tile
13:20:02  <planetmaker> it needs more work, quite obviously
13:20:17  <planetmaker> but I'm not too sure about the need to change trees
13:20:41  <planetmaker> but... possibly, yes
13:20:58  <V453000> that savannah thingy is serious? :D
13:21:36  <planetmaker> it's one of the things I'd like to see, yes
13:21:39  <V453000> or ... is that just for you to see how well ground aware are the industries? :)
13:21:44  <V453000> hmm :O
13:21:50  <V453000> it looks terrible in this state tbh :p
13:22:11  <planetmaker> I started it after we started talking about it here a few minutes ago :-P
13:23:40  <planetmaker> but the ground tile awareness looks acceptable :-)
13:24:05  <Terkhen> indeed :)
13:26:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2613 (Closed): Missing "Conflicting industries" property (Terkhen) @
13:29:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2622 (New): Single industry per town (Terkhen) @
13:43:21  <Terkhen> there is no default "cannot be built above snow line" error, right? I only see desert and rainforest errors defined as possibilities for the callback
13:47:27  <planetmaker> hm... possible
13:47:53  <Terkhen> I'll just create a new string
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13:54:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2612: Some industries and cargos use the same colours. (Terkhen) @
14:14:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2620 (Closed): Power plants in tropic (V453000) @
14:14:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 83:3402fe3855b7: Fix #2620: Improve ground tile awareness of power... (planetmaker) @
14:14:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2620 (Closed): Power plants in tropic (planetmaker) @
14:17:24  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- forest, farm and lumber mill work as expected, the fruit plantation is not allowed in desert but allowed above the snowline, and the rubber plantation is allowed in both desert and above the snowline
14:17:34  <Terkhen> but I fail to see any differences on the code that could explain that
14:17:41  <Terkhen> do you have any idea of what might I be doing wrong?
14:19:03  <planetmaker> let's see.... have a laugh meanwhile: (improved ground tile awareness :-P )
14:21:27  <Terkhen> heh :D
14:27:27  <planetmaker> btw... rain forest != (!desert)
14:27:34  <planetmaker> I just recall that :-)
14:27:45  <planetmaker> we should check for !desert instead of rainforest
14:27:57  <planetmaker> and use a custom message for that, too
14:28:20  <planetmaker> well... we do check for desert
14:29:31  <Terkhen> hmm... why is that?
14:30:04  <Terkhen> what other tile types are in tropic besides those two?
14:30:11  <planetmaker> rainforest has a certain distance from desert.
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14:30:25  <planetmaker> It's within OpenTTD's code different
14:30:37  <planetmaker> there's desert, normal and rainforest tropcial zone
14:30:48  <planetmaker> and we just want !desert instead of rainforest
14:30:51  <Terkhen> oh, true :O
14:30:54  <planetmaker> rainforest is where the mountains are
14:31:07  <planetmaker> the player usually won't know
14:31:13  <planetmaker> but still :-)
14:33:08  <planetmaker> Terkhen: try to fix the id for the rubber plantation which calls the callback switch
14:33:12  <planetmaker> it references fruit
14:33:28  <Terkhen> hmm... and the error with the fruit plantation appearing above snowline is probably caused because I forgot to readd the line for snow at the callback while testing
14:35:27  <Terkhen> okay, now it is working as expected, I'll add the new error message
14:35:40  <planetmaker> ok :-)
14:35:41  <Terkhen> since I'm only checking for desert the rainforest check should be okay
14:35:53  <planetmaker> what do you mean?
14:36:33  <planetmaker> if you mean "it's a not-desert check instead of rainforest", then yes
14:36:45  <Terkhen> I don't use TILETYPE_RAIN_FOREST at all
14:36:53  <Terkhen> just if desert -> error else -> accept
14:37:48  <planetmaker> yes. And I think we shouldn't either. It's quite restrictive
14:38:52  <Terkhen> yes, I was wondering that the default lumber mill probably can only be built on rain forests, but we could ignore that bit :)
14:39:54  <planetmaker> that indeed only can be built there - with vanilla industries
14:43:11  <Ammler> planetmaker: wouldn't it be easier to use a repo for taks like modify the scripts from zeph, so someone can see the diff
14:43:33  <planetmaker> Ammler: sure it will
14:43:55  <Terkhen> V453000: <--- can you please test if placements look okay now?
14:44:30  <Ammler> needs makefile framwork update ^ :-P
14:48:57  <planetmaker> Any suggestion which tree should be used in tropical climate for forest?
14:49:28  <planetmaker> maybe a snowy version? :-P
14:50:42  <Terkhen> a snowy version of the cactus of course
14:50:44  <planetmaker> Ammler: the script is currently in no way a good script. But when a project (OpenGFX) will use those, they'll be added with appropriate support
14:50:50  <planetmaker> ah, good choice ;-)
14:51:08  <planetmaker> but only during april ;-)
14:52:17  <Terkhen> planetmaker: sprite 1860 or 1866 IMO
14:52:41  <Terkhen> alternatively, the third one or the last one in the plant trees list
15:03:54  <planetmaker> what about 1870 for default trees?
15:04:05  <planetmaker> and 1863 for ogfx+trees?
15:04:13  <planetmaker>
15:05:16  <planetmaker> (well, x+0...6 are the used sprites ;-)
15:05:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: the qualitiy of the source should not matter, if you like to make a repo or not :-P
15:05:50  <Terkhen> ok about 1870, but why 1863 for x+ trees, can't it use the same sprite?
15:06:28  <planetmaker> maybe. But doesn't matter
15:06:49  <planetmaker> we have a separate tree anyway for default, ogfx+trees and stolen trees ;-)
15:07:08  <planetmaker> at least in principle, even if many numbers are the same
15:07:46  <planetmaker> but well, let's use 1870 in all cases then
15:07:48  <planetmaker> looks ok
15:08:09  <planetmaker> I'll keep the code configurable, though
15:09:03  <Terkhen> ok :)
15:09:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 84:6d8d6df7b436: Change #2621: Different tree for the forest in tr... (planetmaker) @
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15:11:13  <planetmaker> <-- :-D
15:11:14  <frosch123> hmm, if i were moderator on the newgrf specs wiki, i would ban mb for a at least a week...
15:11:21  <Terkhen> frosch123: what did he do?
15:11:25  <planetmaker> what did he do?
15:11:37  <frosch123> seems like he wants to translate all ecs pages to german
15:11:45  <Terkhen> planetmaker: what's that supposed to be?
15:11:50  <frosch123> so he started with mass creating 50 empty pages
15:12:02  <planetmaker> Terkhen: that's the savannah 'climate' applied in arctic
15:12:19  <planetmaker> i.e. snow replaced by desert transition
15:12:23  <planetmaker> *full snow
15:12:32  <Terkhen> oh, will that be an option too?
15:12:44  <planetmaker> :-) definitely not this way
15:12:48  <Terkhen> frosch123: sounds messy :P
15:13:14  <Terkhen> since V does not seem to be around I'll just commit :)
15:13:38  <planetmaker> yes, please :-)
15:14:04  <planetmaker> frosch123: makes it clear again, that the newgrf wiki needs a new home :-P
15:16:51  <planetmaker> though... seems to me they're automatically created? Or, of course, by a db admin script
15:16:54  <Terkhen> how went the talks about a single unified wiki? I did not pay much attention to the thread, expecting forum drama
15:17:14  <planetmaker> iirc it was like 'go ahead, owen'
15:17:28  <frosch123> Terkhen: it only lacks someone doing the work :p
15:18:06  <Terkhen> oh, good to hear that the idea was accepted :)
15:18:30  <frosch123> planetmaker: at least tikiwiki seems to have some method to link the pages via a combobox at the top
15:19:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2621 (Closed): Different sprite for forests in tropical climate (Terkhen) @
15:19:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2621 (Closed): Different sprite for forests in tropical climate (planetmaker) @
15:21:35  <planetmaker> Terkhen: but I somehow find this savannah change to the arctic climate strangely compelling as well
15:21:43  <Yexo> there are still a few open problems with implementing a unified wiki: which userbase to pick, which wiki system to use and how to convert the other wikis
15:21:46  <planetmaker> with some edges rounded...
15:22:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2619 (Closed): Wrong placement of industries (Terkhen) @
15:22:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 85:c5d35c5a1b3a: Fix #2619: Correct some industry placements. (Terkhen) @
15:22:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 86:1d7abfe7c658: Change: Update Spanish translation. (Terkhen) @
15:22:32  <Terkhen> planetmaker: how does it fit with arctic?
15:23:25  <Terkhen> also, I think that after a translation update we could rerelease :P
15:24:10  <planetmaker> Terkhen: like a greener low land and a more arctic-like, less vegitation higher regions
15:24:18  <planetmaker> not totally snowy, but patches of snow
15:24:40  <Terkhen> that makes sense, but it would also need snow on even higher altitudes
15:24:57  <planetmaker> usually yes
15:25:26  <planetmaker> and yes, we could then do a re-release
15:25:33  <planetmaker> I'd like that
15:29:07  * planetmaker prepares changelog
15:29:29  <Terkhen> ok :)
15:29:44  <planetmaker> hm... what about the TTRS issue?
15:30:07  <Terkhen> I can't work on it now, I should be working already :P
15:30:51  <Terkhen> <--- this is not the most updated version, it is missing your additional check
15:30:56  <Terkhen> IIRC it did not work for me, though
15:31:13  <planetmaker> ah, I recall, yes :S
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16:27:41  <V453000> Terkhen: placement looks good to me :)
16:27:48  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 87:893925e06149: Change: Update German translation (planetmaker) @
16:30:30  <Terkhen> good to hear that, thanks for testing :)
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16:31:04  <V453000> hmm, it is nice to see that the forests use the currently used trees ... would it be possible if they used trees also from tropic?
16:31:28  <V453000> in other words make that dependant upon climate :) I know FIRS does that
16:32:23  <andythenorth> firs is also quite over-coded with respect to desert tiles :P
16:32:29  <V453000> hmm :P
16:32:35  <andythenorth> you get more cacti and more dead trees on a desert tile forest
16:33:07  <planetmaker> Terkhen: could you please translate ?
16:33:18  <planetmaker> possibly not worth a single commit ;-)
16:34:08  <planetmaker> V453000: trees are dependent on climate in ogfx+industries...
16:34:35  <V453000> the forests are using the temperate/arctic trees though :|
16:34:41  <Terkhen> Cuando {STRING} es empleado junto con Total Town Replacement Set, el banco por defecto del clima actual junto con sus cargas estarĂ¡ siempre habilitado.
16:34:42  <planetmaker> maybe in your version :-P
16:34:52  <planetmaker> thx, Terkhen
16:35:11  <V453000> uhm, I have the r82
16:35:30  <planetmaker> migth be too old :-P
16:35:35  <V453000> oh, right :D awesome
16:35:58  <V453000> when is a release coming? ;)
16:36:21  <planetmaker> [17:09]	Brot6	OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 84:6d8d6df7b436: Change #2621: Different tree for the forest in tr... (planetmaker) @
16:36:51  <V453000> :))
16:36:52  <planetmaker> I guess today still. Whether with or without a TTRS fix will have to be seen
16:37:03  <Terkhen> planetmaker: the TTRS fix works for you?
16:37:05  <V453000> I dont think that is the most serious thing :)
16:37:29  <planetmaker> Terkhen: I'm checking things right now. I included gold / diamond mine in the switch. They're essential, too
16:37:55  <Terkhen> that's a big omission on my part :P
16:39:05  <Terkhen> the only other thing missing is #2612, but it is not very important either
16:39:05  <Brot6> Terkhen: #2612 is "OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2612: Some industries and cargos use the same colours. - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
16:39:24  <planetmaker> that's not important enough to stop this release ;-)
16:39:27  <Terkhen> yup
16:39:30  <planetmaker> Unless you want to spend time on that now
16:39:45  <Terkhen> not really
16:39:57  <Terkhen> it would be quite boring :P
16:40:00  <planetmaker> thought so :-) Me neither
16:40:12  <V453000> pm: does the forest have ground awareness? because sometimes it can happen that many tiles are in desert ... if the tile that sets the forest location is in the rainforest and the rest in in desert
16:40:28  <planetmaker> V453000: each tile separately
16:40:28  <Terkhen> we could wait until someone complains about colours at the thread and then ask that person to suggest new colours :)
16:40:32  <V453000> great :)
16:40:43  <planetmaker> haha, Terkhen . I like that
16:40:55  <planetmaker> damn only that V listened.
16:40:56  <Terkhen> ok :P
16:41:11  <V453000> ? :D
16:41:12  <Terkhen> can I mark the task as "waiting on unsuspecting reporter"?
16:41:24  <planetmaker> :-)
16:41:29  <V453000> I dont understand what is about colours tbh
16:41:36  <planetmaker> V453000: checkout minimap
16:41:40  <V453000> ooh I see
16:41:54  <V453000> hm, that sucks
16:42:08  <planetmaker> well. What are your suggestions, V453000 ? :D :D
16:42:14  <V453000> :D :D
16:42:28  <planetmaker> Terkhen: deed done :-P
16:42:30  <Terkhen> we have our first victim? :)
16:42:42  <V453000> dunno, base colour with some slight deviations based on industry chain?
16:42:58  <andythenorth> choosing colours sucks
16:43:50  <Terkhen> it would need to check the palette for colours that actually exist
16:44:52  <V453000> I could at least systematically think about them :) there are quite a few industries
16:45:16  <planetmaker> hm, Terkhen : in the string it must read "cargo" instead of the plural "cargos". How would that translate then?
16:45:21  <planetmaker> it's only one banking cargo
16:45:23  <Terkhen> I wrote all the conflicts I spotted at the task
16:45:44  <Terkhen> planetmaker: junto con su carga estarĂ¡ siempre habilitado.
16:45:52  <planetmaker> ok :-)
16:47:37  <planetmaker> <-- could you check whether it also works for you? The only change is minding the gold / diamond mine
16:47:48  <planetmaker> And the readme / changelog change which is unrelated :-P
16:48:34  <Terkhen> ok, let's see
16:52:18  <orudge> Terkhen / planetmaker: yes, tis now a case of actually finding the time to do it properly :)
16:52:37  <planetmaker> :-)
16:53:40  <planetmaker> ttrs fix seems to work for me now
16:53:57  <planetmaker> I'll add that info to the readme, too
16:55:14  <Terkhen> orudge: ok :)
16:55:25  <Terkhen> planetmaker: with TTRS r36, it should warn or not?
16:55:30  <planetmaker> yes
16:55:37  <planetmaker> it should warn with every version
16:55:39  <Terkhen> then it is working fine :)
16:56:09  <planetmaker> good :-)
16:56:53  <Terkhen> the changes to the changelog look fine also, but IMO it should go in a different commit
16:57:06  <Terkhen> and include TTRS too
16:57:30  <planetmaker> Yes and yes
16:57:46  <planetmaker> I didn't revert that before I started with ttrs
16:58:08  <Terkhen> ok :)
17:02:14  <planetmaker>
17:03:46  <Terkhen> modifcation <--- typo
17:04:02  <Terkhen> looks fine :)
17:04:29  <planetmaker> thanks
17:07:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 88:3ddedecdf374: Fix #2559: Take into account TTRS' definition of ... (planetmaker) @
17:07:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Code Review #2559 (Closed): check compatibility with TTRS (planetmaker) @
17:07:47  <planetmaker> hm... missing a "(based on patch by Terkhen)". Sorry
17:07:55  <Terkhen> no problem :P
17:10:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 89:4f26e6987212: Doc: Update changelog (planetmaker) @
17:11:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Revision 90:384f44c221b6: Added tag 0.3.1 for changeset 4f26e6987212 (planetmaker) @
17:12:01  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from 0.3.0 to 0.3.1 done -
17:18:22  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r74 to r90 done -
17:18:30  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r138), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1989), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r33), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605),
17:18:30  <Brot6> indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r285), nml (r1334), nutracks (r186), ogfx-landscape (r67), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r239), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r661), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs
17:18:32  <Brot6> (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:18:34  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2623 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:19:25  <andythenorth> oops
17:19:28  <andythenorth> fixed
17:19:32  <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) -
17:19:38  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 626:f94190acfcdf: Add: pnfo file for small utility vessel 1 (andythenorth) @
17:51:52  <Terkhen> hmm... I was planning to place industries manually in my scenario, but that would require manual industries implemented in opengfx+
17:52:10  <planetmaker> hu? You can't place them?
17:52:20  <Terkhen> I can, but they will close :P
17:52:25  <planetmaker> Ah
17:52:45  <planetmaker> Yes, IMHO man-indu is one of the things we should at least to some parts merge at some stage
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17:54:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2624 (New): Manual industries (Terkhen) @
17:54:12  <planetmaker> Terkhen: but... what about rather a configurable min. closure time?
17:54:30  <Terkhen> would be easy to do, given the existing template :)
17:54:49  <planetmaker> we have that in a template. Can be added to other industries then, too
17:54:55  <planetmaker> yeah
17:55:20  <Terkhen> that template would not work with primary industries, though
17:56:11  <planetmaker> yes, they need another
18:31:05  <V453000> pm: definitely not anything that would match the colours but it is some outline how it could look in my opinion
18:31:06  <Webster> Title: ogfx+industries_colours (at
18:31:54  <V453000> just wrote something down
18:33:02  <planetmaker> hm... let's see whether and how that could be pressed into newgrf specs
18:35:47  <V453000> the 0.3.1 is including forest ground awareness tile by tile? it seems not to
18:35:57  <planetmaker> hm... every index of the colour palette is valid :-)
18:36:05  <V453000> :)
18:36:06  <planetmaker> that's good news
18:36:34  <andythenorth> not every index is legible against the available map colours though ;)
18:36:49  <V453000> :p
18:36:50  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder why not, V453000 :S
18:37:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the action colours are nice, I heart :-P
18:37:22  <andythenorth> they certainly add something
18:37:38  <andythenorth> I am considering using them more in FIRS
18:37:49  <andythenorth> the map will look nicer that way
18:40:21  <V453000> another thing, pm: the forests look imo quite ugly when they consist of just one tree type ... maybe it is just the super tall tree that is there, maybe choosing a different one would help, but I think some variation of trees would be nice ... on the other hand I realize that they might blend with the normal trees completely (if there is anything bad about that)
18:48:36  <planetmaker> V453000: they should blend in, but still it shall be feasible to find them
18:48:51  <planetmaker> using several trees is feasible
18:49:35  <V453000> maybe the big white ones are just the worst possible choice, maybe some other would do better ... maybe a combination of some 2 types would be both nice and well recognizable
18:50:00  <V453000> maybe maybe maybe \o/
18:50:26  <planetmaker> :-)
19:06:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2612: Some industries and cargos use the same colours. (planetmaker) @
19:06:52  <V453000> :)
19:07:04  <planetmaker> I like the colour suggestion
19:07:16  <planetmaker> But I don't feel like working on it now ;-)
19:07:56  <planetmaker> please keep the document alive till its implemented, though ;-)
19:08:09  <V453000> sure
19:08:23  <V453000> I even updated it a bit :p
19:11:15  <planetmaker> that's fine :-)
19:13:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature #2625 (New): Improved forest (planetmaker) @
19:14:43  <V453000> :)
19:16:51  <V453000> have you checked / uncovered why the tile by tile awareness of forests?
19:20:35  <planetmaker> not yet. you're right though that it seems to use the same one everywhere
19:26:02  <planetmaker> though... V453000... I recall now: <-- this effect stopped me to implement desert awareness
19:26:28  <V453000> ohhh
19:26:31  <V453000> hmm
19:26:33  <planetmaker> thus it only knows about snow; otherwise it'll use the 'normal' ground tile of that climate
19:27:00  <V453000> actually, that should not be an issue
19:27:20  <planetmaker> currently not
19:27:36  <V453000> in desert the trees do not change (do they?) and in arctic forests cant be on slopes so they are either snow completely or not snow completely
19:27:42  <planetmaker> it should basically work everywhere except when the forest is built on the edge to the desert
19:28:17  <planetmaker> yes. I'm not sure about desert tree change. It *should*. But might not with opengfx+trees
19:29:10  <V453000> you mean there might be cacti on the desert?
19:31:07  <V453000> would be quite damn cool maybe :)
19:32:28  <planetmaker> Nah, that not. OpenGFX+Trees has poor tropical climate support
19:32:33  <planetmaker> Many treest here don't grow
19:32:48  <planetmaker> the tree type being used is hard-coded in this industry grf
19:33:15  <planetmaker> but I chose a specific tree type for defautl, ogfx+trees and stolen trees individually
19:34:01  <V453000> why ogfx+trees? I would ignore those for tropic (until they are changed to fit there :) )
19:37:02  <V453000> I guess it is like "choose trees n.3 available on this tile" instead of "take tree n.3 from all tropic trees"
19:37:02  <planetmaker> well. But I can't
19:37:16  <planetmaker> they re-define the default trees. And I have to pick one tree
19:37:21  <planetmaker> As such I have to pick the best
19:37:21  <V453000> hmm :)
19:37:24  <V453000> I see
19:37:25  <planetmaker> Or I have to bring my own
19:37:33  <planetmaker> But then I rather fix the trees
19:38:05  <V453000> hehe :)
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22:47:02  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 662:b645ff08d84a: Doc: Tree sprites (planetmaker) @
22:53:09  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 79b
22:53:09  <Webster> planetmaker: 1947
22:56:50  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 652
22:56:50  <Webster> planetmaker: 1618
23:01:48  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 7a2
23:01:48  <Webster> planetmaker: 1954
23:18:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 663:d8dd99fe685f: Doc: Some more properties of tree sprites (planetmaker) @

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