Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 16th May 2011:
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11:57:12  <planetmaker> Terkhen and : easy enough to understand and amend (when properly integrated in a makefile)?
11:58:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX Trees - Feature #2634 (New): rename to OpenGFX Trees (no + anymore) (Ammler) @
12:00:33  <planetmaker> ^ Ammler might be interested in that, too ;-)
12:00:38  <Terkhen> (save-layers "trees.xcf" "test.png" '(0 1 2)) <--- that looks very simple to use :)
12:01:10  <planetmaker> ok :-)
12:01:15  <Terkhen> can you define the save-layers list in a different file somehow? it would make sense to keep the code somewhere in the makefile framework, and the list of png files to create somewhere else
12:01:51  <Terkhen> it is not really needed, but it would be nice :)
12:02:12  <planetmaker> probably it can be split
12:03:09  <planetmaker> and if not, the makefile could do that work
12:03:58  <planetmaker> similar to how we create the nfo files from pnfo files :-)
12:03:59  <Ammler> I have no clue what you speak about, so why should I be interested? :-P
12:04:09  <planetmaker> hm... yes, that actually is a good idea
12:04:26  <Terkhen> Ammler: automatically generating png files from gimp layered files
12:04:28  <planetmaker> Ammler, using xcf as image source and writing the pngs from that via gimp script in the makefile
12:04:43  <Ammler> oh, yes, sounds interesting
12:04:49  <Ammler> should also work with psd?
12:04:56  <planetmaker> nope
12:05:07  <Terkhen> can't gimp open psd?
12:05:14  <planetmaker> a gimp script uses gimp files ;-) IIRC psd is not on that list
12:05:15  <Ammler> yes, it can
12:05:25  <planetmaker> but I might err. But I don'T know about its layer support
12:05:33  <planetmaker> if it's read correctly, it'd work, too
12:05:54  <Ammler> as FooBar worked on OpenGFX I saved the gimp files as psd
12:06:20  <Terkhen> if gimp can open psd and import the layers correctly it should work
12:06:41  <Terkhen> but supporting two formats looks more complicated, you could just convert psd to xcf
12:07:03  <Ammler> well, the issue is that gimp can handle both, but ps can't
12:07:44  <planetmaker> but everyone who can install PS can also install gimp in case of need
12:07:56  <Ammler> true too
12:08:24  <planetmaker> it seems to read layers on psd graphics
12:08:58  <planetmaker> yes, seems correctly
12:09:24  <planetmaker> cool,I didn't know it worked :-)
12:09:34  <planetmaker> nor did I expect that
12:09:49  <planetmaker> then that'll also help andy maybe
12:10:27  <Terkhen> it == the script?
12:10:29  <Ammler> well, maybe there are also addons for ps to save as xcf
12:10:34  <planetmaker> yes, it == script
12:10:37  <Terkhen> nice :)
12:10:46  <Ammler> like ms word -> libreoffice
12:10:55  <planetmaker> it's a step less to do with graphics work :-)
12:11:29  <Ammler> having gimp as buildrequire is heavy :-)
12:11:31  <planetmaker> while I wrote this, I found actually *surprisingly* many scripts which tailor sprite graphics already
12:12:01  <planetmaker> Ammler, it could be done as build require similar as nml is now for OpenGFX: used, if present, otherwise not
12:12:12  <planetmaker> like for maintainer use only
12:12:30  <planetmaker> but then... it won't save us repo space ;-)
12:12:34  <Ammler> still, gimp installs a whole x
12:12:43  <planetmaker> does it? Hm...
12:12:44  <Ammler> I wonder, if gimp works at all without xserver
12:12:53  <planetmaker> I only need its batch mode
12:13:00  <planetmaker> and call it in non-interactive mode
12:13:03  <planetmaker> without gui
12:13:21  <planetmaker> it has a cmd option for that
12:13:22  <Ammler> do you know that or guess that?
12:13:36  <planetmaker> -i calls non-interactive mode
12:13:54  <planetmaker>   -i, --no-interface             Run without a user interface
12:15:09  <Terkhen> it might be possible to compile it without support for gui at all
12:15:10  <Ammler> yes, that still does not mean, you can install gimp without x or run wihtout xserver, does it?
12:15:25  <planetmaker> it doesn't necessarily mean that, true
12:15:34  <Ammler> Terkhen: out of question, I rater install x and run xserver as build gimp self
12:15:40  <Terkhen> :P
12:16:32  <Ammler> I know, how to run build system with xserver, had to investigate that for windows nml.exe
12:17:00  <Ammler> but I am not sure, how well that works for others like debian
12:17:55  <Ammler> well, I triger a test
12:21:48  <planetmaker> that'd be awesome :-)
12:22:52  <Ammler> planetmaker: you have a testcase?
12:23:13  <Ammler> could you push it to repo test
12:23:22  <planetmaker> but I fear you might be right, there are at least no pre-compiled versions without gui support for gimp which I know
12:23:35  <planetmaker> Ammler, I don't yet have anywhere an integration in a makefile
12:23:43  <Ammler> no need
12:23:54  <Ammler> just add a xcf and a script or whatever
12:23:57  <planetmaker> what do you then mean as 'test case'?
12:23:59  <Brot6> test: update from  to gimptest done -
12:24:10  <planetmaker> :-D
12:24:22  <planetmaker> to that repo?
12:24:37  <Ammler> yes
12:24:49  <Ammler> you could edit the bashgrf.spec self
12:24:53  <Ammler> but else I will
12:25:07  <Ammler> I just need a hint how and the xcf file
12:25:41  <planetmaker> <-- you need that
12:26:24  <Ammler> ok
12:26:32  <planetmaker> and take sprites/png/trees/trees.xcf
12:26:36  <planetmaker> from opengfx
12:26:53  <planetmaker> and of course the gimp script itself
12:27:01  <planetmaker> which is called by that one-line bash script
12:27:47  <Ammler> #!/bin/bash <- obsolete, use #!/usr/bin/env bash instead
12:28:08  <Ammler> just a generic hint
12:28:17  <planetmaker> he, I didn't know :-)
12:28:19  <Ammler> and don't call bash scripts .sh
12:28:26  <planetmaker> well, yes
12:28:33  <Ammler> else Rubidium will slap you with bashism
12:28:50  <planetmaker> :-)
12:29:01  <planetmaker> that script could certainly use /bin/sh ;-)
12:29:22  <Ammler> then change the shebang accodingly :-P
12:29:50  <planetmaker> when I put that in a makefile, I won't need that shell script at all
12:30:02  <planetmaker> it's just for the convenience to test the gimp script
12:31:21  <Ammler> the final file is called trees.png?
12:31:25  <planetmaker> test.png
12:31:37  <planetmaker> except if you change it in the gimp script file
12:32:28  <planetmaker> 2nd last line. Or add other lines, if you like. Valid layers are 0 ... 21 (or 22?)
12:33:08  <Ammler> ok, gimptest2 pushed :-)
12:33:15  <Ammler> oh
12:33:22  <Ammler> I need to run it :-P
12:33:30  <planetmaker> ;-)
12:33:37  <planetmaker> gimptest2 is NOT a bash file
12:33:45  <planetmaker> it's a script file to be interpreted by gimp
12:33:49  <Brot6> test: update from gimptest to gimptest2 done -
12:35:05  <Ammler> gimptest2.1 pushed :-P
12:35:16  <Brot6> test: update from gimptest2 to gimptest2.1 done -
12:35:56  <Ammler>
12:35:58  <Ammler> :-)
12:36:01  <Ammler> working?
12:36:12  <planetmaker> yes
12:36:19  <Terkhen> nice :)
12:36:20  <planetmaker> :-)
12:36:22  <Ammler> <-- repo
12:36:48  <Terkhen> ! You are not authorized to access this page.
12:37:12  <Ammler> Terkhen: public now
12:39:05  <Ammler> so gimp works without xserver
12:39:21  <planetmaker> hm, it did not install an xserver?
12:39:30  <Ammler> that I don't case
12:39:47  <planetmaker> care?
12:39:48  <Ammler> <-- packages which got installed
12:40:13  <Ammler> there are some X-packages, but not that many
12:40:17  <planetmaker> :-D a whole system
12:40:35  <Ammler> we install a whole system for every build
12:40:50  <Ammler> needs 1.5 mins :-P
12:41:18  <planetmaker> good or bad or not much difference?
12:41:30  <planetmaker> I'd say it's ok :-)
12:41:32  <Ammler> around 20 packages more as without gimp
12:41:44  <Ammler> so doesn't matter for our case
12:41:51  <planetmaker> ok :-)
12:41:56  <Ammler> but as said, not sure about debian guys
12:42:02  <Brot6> unable to change mode on /home/hg/test : Operation not permitted - /home/hg/test/.hg/cache
12:42:03  <planetmaker> Then the question is: should gimp be required?
12:42:46  <planetmaker> I guess it should not... but maintainer-clean should clean the depending png files and the makefile should re-build them, if gimp is found
12:42:49  <Ammler> that you need to ask the debian guys :-)
12:42:59  <planetmaker> hm, heffner, I think
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12:43:13  <Ammler> that is fedora
12:43:20  <Ammler> but well, you can ask him too
12:43:23  <Terkhen> if gimp is not required then we would need to keep the png files anyways
12:43:29  <Terkhen> hmm... is not that much work I guess
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12:43:44  <Ammler> Terkhen: yes, like the openttd.grf in openttd
12:44:26  <Ammler> or the current nml requirement in opengfx
12:47:14  <planetmaker> Terkhen, keeping the png files is not much work. We'd still profit from it the same way
12:47:43  <planetmaker> the difference would be: the repo size is not reduced which it could quite a lot, if we got rid of the pngs
12:55:18  <planetmaker> BuildRequires:  mercurial p7zip unix2dos gimp %{?dz_requires} <-- so that's the crucial line, is it, Ammler ?
12:55:37  <planetmaker> where gimp needs adding?
12:56:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, every package you might like needs to be added there
12:57:10  <Ammler> also tools like imageJ or whatever could be added that way
12:57:46  <Ammler> well, imageJ might not be part of standard repo, then I need to add the other repo or link the package in the obs system
12:57:48  <planetmaker> hm, right. Another 'construction site' for the build scripts ;-)
12:58:18  <planetmaker> but gimp has higher priority ;-)
12:58:29  <Ammler> and gimp is in the standard repo
12:58:32  <planetmaker> it'll save me lots of 'save copy as' work ;-)
12:58:41  <Ammler> so there was no additinal work needed
12:58:48  <planetmaker> :-)
12:59:03  <Ammler> <-- search here
12:59:11  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> Search Results (at" target="_blank">
12:59:31  <Ammler> openSUSE:11.3/standard <-- means standard repo
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13:00:54  <planetmaker> ah, ok. and imageJ is in science/openSUSE_11.3
13:01:15  <Ammler> yes, and that repo is not linked currently
13:01:27  <Ammler> home:openttdcoop is linked or games
13:01:41  <Ammler> or fpc
13:01:52  <Ammler> it is no work to link a repo
13:02:04  <Ammler> so just tell me, if you need
13:02:37  <planetmaker> ok :-) imageJ is currently not urgent. I might toy around with houses another day, but then it's only needed for that one single repo
13:03:06  <Ammler>
13:03:28  <Ammler> I linked home:openttdcoop on our server and there I link other repos, if needed
13:04:44  <planetmaker> debian6 is not built successfully?
13:05:11  <Ammler> yep, I have no clue how to make the dsc file
13:05:25  <Ammler> so those repos are disabled anyway, I think
13:07:23  <Ammler> btw. there are changes in 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1 which breaks DoCommands Logging
13:07:34  <Ammler> quite strange
13:07:49  <planetmaker> hm, "interesting"
13:08:04  <Ammler> .stable runs without patches currently
13:17:27  <Ammler> [14:43] <planetmaker> heffer, you're responsible for the Debian port, are you? <-- [14:43] <Ammler> that is fedora
13:18:33  <Ammler> blathjis does debian
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14:03:39  <Rubidium> Ammler: what a nonsense... I don't care about the extension of the script. I can about a script with #!/bin/sh containing bashisms, if a script using #!/bin/bash uses bashisms that's perfectly fine regardless of the extension
14:05:33  <Ammler> hehe
14:11:19  <Ammler> I guess, I read it from the bash faq
14:18:15  <Ammler> "Don't use extensions for your scripts. Scripts define new commands that you can run, and commands are generally not given extensions. Also: bash script are *not* sh script (so don't use .sh) and the extension will only cause dependencies headaches if the script gets rewritten in another language."
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16:11:24  <Brot6> Backup test: abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
16:24:11  <Brot6> test: update from  to r104 done -
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17:17:58  <Brot6> ogfx-rv: update from r97 to r98 done -
17:19:08  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r663 to r665 done -
17:19:14  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1990), fish (r628), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r33), grfcodec (r829), grfpack (r279), heqs
17:19:15  <Brot6> (r605), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r285), nml (r1335), nutracks (r186), ogfx-industries (r96), ogfx-landscape (r67), ogfx-trains (r241), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs
17:19:16  <Brot6> (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:56  <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) -
17:20:31  <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) -
17:20:37  <Ammler> hmm, why does that fail now too?
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18:52:34  <Terkhen> planetmaker: should we change the encoding of the base translation from ANSI to UTF to avoid conversion issues like the one posted at the ogfx+ industries thread?
18:53:12  <planetmaker> yes, sure
18:53:22  <planetmaker> Where do we use ansi?
18:53:42  <planetmaker> I consider that rather a mistake :-)
18:55:09  <Terkhen> it seems that the english.lng file uses it... but I don't remember having issues after translating, and I just copied it
18:55:15  <Terkhen> I'll convert it
18:55:29  <planetmaker> if it causes issues, then it should be converted.
18:55:41  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
18:59:58  <Terkhen> strange
19:00:15  <Terkhen> when I download the file from linux or I check it from the repository, it is on UTF-8
19:00:24  <Terkhen> but if I download it from windows it is in ANSI
19:00:59  <planetmaker> he
19:01:03  <planetmaker> system defaults?
19:01:09  <planetmaker> and no encoding set?
19:01:22  <Terkhen> maybe, I don't know :P
19:05:26  <michi_cc> Does the file actually have any non-ansi characters?
19:06:33  <planetmaker> quite certainly not
19:13:48  <Terkhen> I don't think it does
19:18:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, if you want to try the psd -> png conversion, test this patch:
19:18:22  <planetmaker> it's taken from opengfx, thus might need small adoptions, but...
19:21:39  <Rubidium> isn't ANSI equal to UTF8 for all ASCII characters? So as long as you use only ASCII characters there's no way for an editor to guess the "right" one.
19:22:41  <Rubidium> so if you use Microsoft's editors it'll probably default to their own ANSI whereas other editors might default to UTF8
19:45:25  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'll need to install gimp and such
19:45:28  <andythenorth> I'll do that now
19:46:29  <planetmaker> ah... right. I used macports, but you can also just download it from the gimp site and install that app (much faster). And then use a small trick:
19:46:37  <andythenorth> I'm using macports
19:46:39  <andythenorth> ;)
19:46:49  <andythenorth> but what's the trick?
19:46:55  <planetmaker> yes, but compiling gimp will have you compile for QUITE some time. It has many deps
19:47:25  <planetmaker> you need to set a path to the gimp executable which is hidden in the app. So edit your ~/.bash_profile and add
19:49:03  <planetmaker> alias gimp='/Applications/...bin/gimp'
19:49:24  <planetmaker> with ... being the rest of the path including Gimp.App
19:49:30  <planetmaker> let me check in a few minutes...
19:49:48  <andythenorth> I'll leave macports doing apparently nothing and have dinner :P
19:49:59  <andythenorth> then get if macports is not done
19:50:04  <planetmaker> :-)
19:50:14  <planetmaker> for me it compiled two hours ;-)
19:50:27  <andythenorth> I presume it doesn't re-export png if the psd is unchanged?
19:50:37  <planetmaker> correct
19:50:47  <andythenorth> each layer is a png?
19:51:00  <planetmaker> that depends. You define which layers make up that png
19:51:06  <andythenorth> ok
19:51:10  <planetmaker> I usually will use 2 three or more :-)
19:51:17  <andythenorth> this might offer a route to put cargo sprites into FISH
19:51:24  <andythenorth> and make my life easier with HEQS
19:51:57  <andythenorth> any idea what it does with photoshop layer sets?
19:52:03  <andythenorth> some people say gimp can't open them
20:00:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you need X for gimp?
20:00:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I tested it with a psd file. It opened it and showed the layers correctly on a short test
20:01:13  <planetmaker> was even one of your files - dunno which though
20:01:28  <planetmaker> gimp needs X, though this script does not
20:01:38  <planetmaker> as it uses gimp in batch mode without GUI
20:02:10  <andythenorth> I have X, it seems to crash a lot, or maybe that's just open office
20:04:30  <planetmaker> works here
20:04:54  <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth using layers is the whole point of psd (or xcf) as sources, right?
20:05:08  <andythenorth> one of the key reasons yes
20:05:27  <planetmaker> I mostly did that for exactly that reason :-) - too boring to save every frigging png for each of the trees I just added to OpenGFX.
20:05:36  <planetmaker> Which happen each to be a separate layer in my source file
20:05:50  <andythenorth> for stuff like cargo sprites, it's bonkers to work without layers
20:05:51  <planetmaker> with snow a separate one. And the blue background the first
20:05:57  <planetmaker> and that, of course
20:06:11  <andythenorth> DanMacK seems to do fine without them though, and he's much faster at spriting than me :P
20:06:13  <planetmaker> also for the landscape: road on desert / temperate / arctic / snow / tropical
20:06:18  <andythenorth> maybe a limited tool makes for faster work
20:06:18  <planetmaker> and then the same with all rails...
20:06:42  <planetmaker> and with/without grid lines - which I have as layers as well ;-)
20:07:21  <planetmaker> thus my 2nd big thing where I'll use it. And yes, OpenGFX vehicles with cargo sprites
20:08:07  <andythenorth> if I set the layers up right, I only have to draw one row of vehicles
20:08:15  <andythenorth> less copy and paste every time I make a change
20:08:43  <Terkhen> this will be great for opengfx+ road vehicles... for now the cargo sprites are finished, but if I have to change anything on them it would take hours right now
20:11:37  <andythenorth> hmm
20:11:47  <andythenorth> gimp opens a large psd *much* faster than photoshop
20:15:19  <andythenorth> maybe I should stop using a power PC photoshop on intel :P
20:16:25  <planetmaker> :-)
20:16:35  <andythenorth> that would involve money :P
20:16:38  <planetmaker> layers are counted from the lowest (=0) up to the highest
20:16:55  * andythenorth is unprepared to learn gimp, too many years of photoshop shortcuts
20:17:02  <planetmaker> and you specify as the 3rd argument in the graphics source list file the layers
20:17:26  <andythenorth> ok
20:17:42  <andythenorth> I'm not going to have time to look tonight, but I should soon
20:17:47  <planetmaker> mind that that file has a special layout: the filenames are separated by tabs from eachother and the layers list. But the layers MUST NOT be separated by tabs from eachother
20:17:54  <andythenorth> ok
20:18:33  <planetmaker> the resulting pngs will have the same dimensions as the original psd / xcf
20:18:43  <planetmaker> thus some graphic templates might need adjustment
20:18:52  <planetmaker> if the pngs are differently cut
20:19:01  <andythenorth> hmm
20:19:06  <planetmaker> but that's IMHO no problem
20:19:12  <andythenorth> it's unlikely to respect photoshops web slices :P
20:19:19  <andythenorth> which I use to export pngs
20:19:19  <planetmaker> yep :-)
20:19:25  <planetmaker> I guess not
20:19:37  <planetmaker> I export those layers
20:22:25  <planetmaker> but if properly arranged in the psd it's a non-issue. Just some updated x/y coordinates for the start of the template
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