Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 24th May 2011:
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00:52:33  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
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05:26:05  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1354:b289cf7c8817: Doc: engine_override command (planetmaker) @
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06:22:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2332: Engine overrides (action0 feature 8 prop 11) (planetmaker) @
06:29:29  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2652 (New): Handling / usage of action2 ids (planetmaker) @
06:43:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2653 (Confirmed): Building of small airport (planetmaker) @
07:15:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2654 (New): container colours upon train reversal (planetmaker) @
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07:35:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 76:5bc91ea4aedd: Change: Ignore more of the automatically generated ... (planetmaker) @
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12:05:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 77:b573f63e80a0: Fix: Missing space in the NewGRF name in the title (planetmaker) @
14:03:10  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder. I think we should probably release a new version of OpenGFX... much has changed, and upcoming changes might be slower
14:05:51  <Ammler> I think, if you think about that is enough reason to do so :-)
14:06:29  <Ammler> and it would fit your plan to release with openttd
14:08:42  <planetmaker> quite true. The changelog is at least as long as the last... and the changes at least as big ;-)
14:10:24  <Ammler> well, at least there is a nice new feature
14:10:32  <Ammler> not just bug fixes
14:10:37  <planetmaker> two :-)
14:10:56  <Ammler> water and trees
14:11:11  <planetmaker> and factory / steel mill invisibility view
14:11:13  <Terkhen> those two are big improvement, yes :)
14:11:42  <Ammler> planetmaker: was going crazy with gimp
14:12:13  <planetmaker> yeah... I'm not planning to unlearn what I learnt about using gimp ;-)
14:13:24  <Ammler> shouldn't froix commit his improvements to ogfx trees to ogfx directly now?
14:14:21  <Ammler> maybe he would help in other places too then :-)
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14:14:36  <planetmaker> I'll try to talk to him
14:14:49  <planetmaker> the recent commits are the 'reply' to me asking ;-)
14:15:22  <planetmaker> Hm... are the shores a fix?
14:15:39  <Terkhen> were they considered broken before?
14:15:43  <planetmaker> yes
14:15:48  <Terkhen> then it is a fix :P
14:15:53  <planetmaker> at least by me ;-)
14:16:12  <Ammler> not a fix
14:16:27  <Ammler> just not supported
14:16:36  <Ammler> so you had to change it
14:16:57  <planetmaker> <-- that shows where it is a fix. there where there are the V - shaped tiles
14:17:20  <planetmaker> there the shore is non-continuous
14:17:53  <planetmaker> that's now much better disguised ;-)
14:18:07  <planetmaker> and was the whole reason why I started to modify shores
14:18:41  <planetmaker> also in some other water corners it looks non-continuous
14:19:18  <Ammler> as said, not supported
14:19:32  <planetmaker> yes, but a base set has to follow the programme it serves
14:19:59  <Ammler> hehe
14:20:03  <planetmaker> <-- current changelog
14:20:32  <Ammler> well, I don't care
14:20:51  <Ammler> but "fix" makes it uncool
14:20:58  <planetmaker> I agree.
14:21:21  <Ammler> and you didn't just fix it, you made it nicer
14:21:23  <Ammler> (imo)
14:22:02  <planetmaker> :-) Operation successful then ;-)
14:22:32  <planetmaker> Well. Feature / Fix it is then ;-)
14:23:41  <planetmaker> but I guess I won't have time tonight to do the release. But yes :-)
14:26:17  <planetmaker> :-)
14:27:48  <Ammler> you are the only one left to make a release :-)
14:28:03  <Ammler> well, except Rubi
14:28:20  <planetmaker> why?
14:28:26  <Ammler> who else?
14:28:29  <planetmaker> you?
14:28:36  <Ammler> nah, no access :-)
14:28:40  <Ammler> but that is ok
14:28:42  <planetmaker> :-(
14:28:50  <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'no access'?
14:29:04  <Ammler> opengfx is a special bananas account
14:29:18  <Ammler> why don't you release now?
14:30:10  <planetmaker> I'd need to test it briefly ingame :-)
14:30:42  <Ammler> I would let the user test it :-P
14:30:52  <Ammler> you see, better you make the release ;-)
14:31:12  <planetmaker> nah, not for a sprite error. But correct naming and principle workings
14:47:53  <Lakie> Sounds like I'll have to update makefile in my repo sometime.
14:48:05  <Ammler> well, I would be ready to release the release fix release :-P
14:49:37  <planetmaker> what's wrong with yours, Lakie ?
14:50:04  <Lakie> Nothing, just a few features added which could be useful
14:50:47  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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14:51:29  <planetmaker> Lakie, it *should* be easy to update: <-- grab the update bundle and copy it over the existing project
14:51:43  <planetmaker> it should not break anything nor overwrite any config stuff
14:51:51  <Lakie> Has it fixed the issue where if I say changed mygrf.pnfo to reference a new .pnfo file, it needed a full rebuild.
14:51:53  <planetmaker> But you might need to adjust config in some cases
14:52:23  <Lakie> Ok, I'll give it a go in a bit. :)
14:52:59  <planetmaker> though without config adjustment nothing *should* break, but... I'm never too sure ;-)
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16:45:56  <Lakie> Hmm... it no longer auto inserts the nfoheader.
16:58:33  <Lakie> planetmaker, I'm pretty sure you'll want an ifdef around makefile.common line 12.
16:58:49  <Lakie> Otherwise projects not using the gimp script will hang on clean
17:01:26  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 645:554033be3851: Add: graphics for canal boat 1 (andythenorth) @
17:03:57  <planetmaker> Lakie, : for name in `cat $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE) | grep -v '^#' | $(A... ?
17:04:06  <Lakie> aye
17:04:19  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2465 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:04:31  <Lakie> Kept causing make to hang on my system because I've not got such a file
17:05:20  <planetmaker> hm, confirmed. thanks
17:07:00  <planetmaker> though actually testing for the file might be better than an ifdef
17:10:02  <Brot6> nml: update from r1353 to r1354 done -
17:10:22  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r289 to r290 done -
17:10:39  <planetmaker> ^ there, Lakie, you can get the new, fixed nightly ;-)
17:10:42  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 290:55b329c3f56b: Fix: Don't fail cleaning when no graphics sou... (planetmaker) @
17:10:54  <Lakie> Hehe
17:12:58  <planetmaker> hm... is it fixed?
17:13:10  <Lakie> Not sure yet, updating the vm software...
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17:15:03  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 197:ce97a3d7f6f5: Added lights and barriers for level crossings and enabled t... (oberhuemer) @
17:15:29  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r196 to r197 done -
17:17:59  <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r75 to r77 done -
17:18:39  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r195 to r197 done -
17:18:54  <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from r44 to r48 done -
17:19:01  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1994), fish (r648), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r34), grfcodec (r829), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), indonesiantowns
17:19:01  <Brot6> (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r290), nml (r1354), ogfx-industries (r107), ogfx-landscape (r68), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-rv.clone (r103), ogfx-trains (r241), opengfx (r669), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs (r36),
17:19:03  <Brot6> worldairlinersset (r671)
17:20:56  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 291:e192dcac0408: Fix (r290): Also do the right thing, if a var... (planetmaker) @
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17:24:57  <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) -
17:25:38  <Lakie> Na, that still hangs, planetmaker
17:25:41  <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) -
17:26:07  <planetmaker> also with r291? (Not nightly)?
17:26:30  <planetmaker> I tested the wrong thing when trying... :S
17:26:31  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape (Diffsize: 1096), ogfx-rv, ogfx-rv.clone (Diffsize: 1), ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 813), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swedishrails (Diffsize: 259), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156)
17:27:48  <Lakie> I don't see an 291
17:28:12  <Lakie> ok I'll try that
17:28:49  <planetmaker> pull the repo ;-)
17:30:13  <Lakie> missing seperator?
17:30:41  <Lakie> scripts/Makefile.common:12: *** missing separator.  Stop.
17:31:27  <Ammler> why didn't script/check fail?
17:36:45  <Lakie> I'm guess because its not defined, still happy with my "ifdef GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE" check
17:37:29  <planetmaker> Lakie, that doesn't do the trick for empty but defined
17:37:40  <Lakie> Ah, I see.
17:37:45  <Ammler> no, I meant the example grf doesn't have gimp files either why doesn't it fail?
17:37:48  <planetmaker> try to move the "" directly around the $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE)
17:37:55  <planetmaker> and not around $(strip...)
17:38:04  <planetmaker> does it work then?
17:41:20  <Lakie> No?
17:48:06  <Lakie> Sorry, seems I'm good at breaking stuff. :x
17:55:39  <Lakie> Heh
17:55:49  <Lakie> Seems you missed a space in from of the first backet
17:56:06  <Lakie> "ifneq (" is fine but "ifneq(2 is not.
17:56:42  <Lakie> front*
17:58:18  <Lakie> "ifneq ($(strip $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE)),)" appears to work for being undefined or empty.
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18:06:17  <andythenorth> bonsoir
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18:06:57  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
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18:35:50  <andythenorth> Yexo: could a station tile choose the ground sprite dynamically?
18:35:59  <andythenorth> based on other tiles in the station?
18:38:03  <Yexo> yes
18:38:06  <Ammler> andythenorth: your lightling fixes are indeed useless
18:38:18  <Ammler> nobody except you would notice it
18:38:40  <Ammler> but maybe that are already too many :-P
18:39:11  <andythenorth> it's too many
18:39:29  <andythenorth> there are lighting mistakes in default game - probably due to time shortness
18:39:38  <Ammler> no
18:39:42  <Ammler> not mistakes
18:39:49  <andythenorth> choices
18:39:49  <Ammler> that is just your view
18:39:55  <Ammler> exactly
18:40:32  <Ammler> same issue as "some" think the wind needs to go the same direction everywhere
18:42:59  <andythenorth> it's just wrong
18:43:05  <andythenorth> and it needs fixing
18:43:06  <andythenorth> is all
18:46:20  <Ammler> it isn't wrong it is just you who thinks it is wrong
18:46:39  <andythenorth> that's wrong
18:46:48  <Ammler> but it doesn't hurt if you fix it as nobody could notice the difference
18:46:54  <andythenorth> if I think it's wrong, then it's wrong
18:47:18  <andythenorth> it's not subjective in this case
18:47:26  <Ammler> hehe
18:47:26  <andythenorth> whether I'm wrong is subjective :)
18:47:53  <Ammler> well, I just meant it is completely up to you, if it is worth
18:48:05  <andythenorth> it'll bug me until it's done
18:48:06  <Ammler> IMO, it isn't
18:48:14  <andythenorth> ach
18:48:29  <Ammler> and nobody will say thanks for the fix :-P
18:48:34  <andythenorth> doesn't matter
18:49:49  <andythenorth> "Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.  ~Henry Ford"
18:49:55  <andythenorth> "Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it.  Autograph your work with excellence.  ~Author Unknown"
18:50:02  <andythenorth> "A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval.  ~Mark Twain, "What Is Man?", 1906
18:50:02  <andythenorth> "
18:50:04  <andythenorth> etc.
18:50:18  <Ammler> andythenorth: well, the point is it is just wrong for you
18:50:20  <Ammler> :-)
18:50:39  <andythenorth> "To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice.  ~Confucius"
18:50:45  <andythenorth> ho
18:50:49  <andythenorth> quotes abound
18:51:07  <Ammler> you could also simply fix your mind
18:51:17  <andythenorth> not really
18:51:21  <Ammler> :-)
18:51:44  <andythenorth> Ammler: you use opengfx?
18:51:51  <Ammler> doesn't matter
18:52:05  <Ammler> your new ships are wrong in both sets
18:52:26  <andythenorth> but in opengfx you're looking at something where maybe 50% of the graphics are wrong
18:52:30  <andythenorth> so you wouldn't notice
18:52:43  <andythenorth> if I used FISH in opengfx, I wouldn't be worrying about FISH
18:52:47  <Ammler> no, different directions is right
18:52:51  <andythenorth> I'd be worrying about a lot of other stuff
18:53:01  <Ammler> having everything same direction is wrong
18:53:13  <andythenorth> hmm
18:53:20  <andythenorth> I see this discussion might not end
18:53:27  <andythenorth> here's another: "It takes less time to do a thing right, than it does to explain why you did it wrong.  ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow"
18:53:29  <Ammler> but you see the point?
18:53:34  <andythenorth> yes, but no
18:53:42  <andythenorth> lighting from the back is just dumb
18:53:51  <andythenorth> it won't look as good as lighting from the front
18:53:56  <andythenorth> which is why SF lit from the front
18:54:15  <Ammler> by fixing it you make something useless which nobody notices and for the those who notices, the fix is wrong
18:54:35  <andythenorth> I think we may have orthogonal opinions
18:54:40  <andythenorth> or incompatible opinions
18:54:47  <Ammler> indeed
18:54:50  <andythenorth> I don't do it for the notice of other people
18:54:54  <andythenorth> I do it because it's wrong
18:55:16  <Ammler> then you would need to fix also original set
18:55:25  <Ammler> as you said self, there are faults too
18:55:46  <andythenorth> they're not my errors
18:55:56  <Ammler> how you know, those are errors?
18:56:11  <andythenorth> faults != errors?
18:56:18  <Ammler> how you know?
18:56:33  <Ammler> did Foster say that?
18:56:36  <andythenorth> no
18:56:45  <andythenorth> I'm making assumptions about the reasons
18:56:51  <Ammler> ok
18:57:02  <andythenorth> nearly all of them look like copy-paste-flip
18:57:27  <andythenorth> a few of them look like deliberate errors 'because it will look better' which is a correct approach
18:57:46  <Ammler> but you prefer looking worse but right :-P
18:57:52  <andythenorth> no
18:57:57  <andythenorth> it looks better
18:58:02  <andythenorth> lighting from the back is stupid
18:58:17  <andythenorth> or do you mean the deliberate errors?
18:58:30  <Ammler> yes
18:58:36  <andythenorth> they're correct
18:59:00  <andythenorth> appearance in game > reality
18:59:20  <Ammler> now I am confused, but well, I just wanted to make a point that not everyone thinks the light and wind needs to be from same direction
19:00:07  <andythenorth> wind I have no opinion on
19:00:20  <andythenorth> lighting from the back is wrong
19:00:25  <Ammler> for me it was just fine to have light from right
19:01:45  <Ammler> are there other sets with this error?
19:05:56  <andythenorth> lots
19:06:04  <andythenorth> there was a long thread about in maybe 2005 or so
19:06:16  <andythenorth> george was trying to get everyone to do it right
19:06:22  <andythenorth> he did a diagram and everything
19:06:25  <andythenorth> he was correct
19:06:33  <andythenorth> purno and others basically said 'meh, we don't care'
19:06:42  <andythenorth> and then drew loads of stuff wrong
19:06:48  <andythenorth> and put wrong documentation on ttdp wiki
19:07:17  <andythenorth> and now we're having this enjoyable discussion :)
19:07:46  <Ammler> ah, I see
19:08:05  <Ammler> so you basically take George as right and others as wrong
19:08:10  <andythenorth> yes
19:08:17  <andythenorth> he made the correct analysis
19:08:31  <Ammler> did MB comment it?
19:08:45  <andythenorth> probably
19:08:52  <andythenorth> he sent me the link to the thread so I guess
19:11:06  <Ammler> well, fixing it doesn't hurt... but I see it like the others, but basically the wiki rules not George :-)
19:11:23  <Ammler> the wiki can't be wrong
19:11:29  <Ammler> George can
19:12:27  <Ammler> so after all, you just change it for you better taste, which doesn't hurt ;-)
19:13:14  <andythenorth> the wiki is wrong
19:13:16  <andythenorth> I fixed it
19:13:20  <andythenorth> george is correct
19:13:23  <Ammler> oh :-o
19:13:37  <Ammler> you fixed it :-D
19:14:04  <Ammler> then the wiki was wrong
19:14:17  <Ammler> but now, it isn't anymore
19:14:31  <Ammler> so as said, the wiki can't be wrong
19:15:26  <Ammler> that is why I would trust wikimedia quite much more as a book of any scientist
19:20:24  <andythenorth> unfortunately it appears that Zeph trusted the wiki
19:20:33  <andythenorth> and I learnt shading from Zeph's sprites
19:20:41  <andythenorth> which is why I've been doing it wrong
19:20:56  <andythenorth> as Zeph has redrawn nearly the entire game, maybe he is now right :P
19:28:44  <Terkhen> andythenorth: <--- I remember this issue as reported and fixed :/
19:29:31  <Terkhen> bbl
19:56:46  <Terkhen> andythenorth: should I open a new task?
19:57:01  <andythenorth> I should do some archeology on commits first
19:57:09  <andythenorth> I couldn't fix all the issues with the harbour
19:57:18  <andythenorth> some are almost impossible with current spec
19:59:49  <andythenorth> bbl
20:00:08  <Terkhen> ok :)
20:45:02  <andythenorth> Terkhen: is the case one of the ones attached here?
20:47:23  <Terkhen> not exactly
20:47:42  <Terkhen> this one at least has a single tile "right"
20:47:46  <Terkhen> is the other one which is wrong
20:48:18  <andythenorth> it's probably related to those cases
20:48:44  <Terkhen> I think so, yes
20:49:52  <andythenorth>
20:50:06  <andythenorth> the common case was resolved in 0.6.4
20:50:22  <andythenorth> I have to wake up my brain for about 30 mins to understand the complex cases
20:50:30  <andythenorth> and I don't think there's a practical fix
20:50:48  <andythenorth> however if FIRS converts to nml, maybe others will help
20:50:53  <andythenorth> :)
20:51:05  <Terkhen> it is not something big, it can wait :)
20:51:25  <andythenorth> might need tile spec upgrading
20:51:30  <andythenorth> it's currently a bit limited
20:52:01  <andythenorth> for someone who can write C++ or nml equally, the time would be better spent fixing game than coding n custom layout checks for one industry
20:52:22  <andythenorth> but I can't remember what is needed - something to tell if there is actually water on the tile IIRC
20:53:16  <andythenorth> can you add that case to the existing issue?
20:54:18  <Rubidium> a someone that can write C++ is going to spent his time even better ;)
20:54:50  <Ammler> andythenorth: I thought we found out that the lightning is just a matter of personal view :-)
20:54:55  <andythenorth> empirically, I'm not convinced
20:55:01  <andythenorth> hmm that was an answer to Rubidium
20:55:07  <andythenorth> but it also holds for Ammler
20:55:21  <andythenorth> Ammler: I think this argument is probably expiring :P
20:55:31  <Rubidium> I think lightning is irrelevant in OpenTTD
20:55:43  <andythenorth> as is rain
20:55:43  <Ammler> also the author of course rules
20:55:43  <Rubidium> after all, we don't have weather in OpenTTD
20:55:47  <andythenorth> what about tornados?
20:55:55  <Ammler> in your case you :-P
20:56:05  <Ammler> on opengfx we don't care
20:56:16  <Ammler> we use sprites we got
20:56:51  <Ammler> I would for sure not decline a nicer sprite because of wrong lightning
20:57:31  <andythenorth> that's because (I think) opengfx has a different goal
20:57:37  <Rubidium> Ammler: lightning?
20:57:45  <andythenorth> my goal is to make things that fit with TTD original art
20:57:55  <Ammler> which it doesn't
20:58:03  <Ammler> as there the light is also different
20:58:07  <Ammler> (as you said)
20:58:07  <andythenorth> hmm
20:58:21  <andythenorth> how many sprites are there in game?
20:58:25  <andythenorth> 6k or so?
20:58:29  <Ammler> around 10k
20:58:43  <andythenorth> most are lit from bottom right of screen, and 'high'
20:59:06  <andythenorth> you're arguing against empiricism using a few exceptions and telling me that it's subjective
20:59:07  <andythenorth> it's not
20:59:11  <andythenorth> it's empirical
20:59:16  <Ammler> :-)
20:59:21  <andythenorth> ;)
21:00:07  <Ammler> you know, openttd does also add sprites fixes of ttd set to openttd.grf
21:00:16  <andythenorth> I've seen them
21:03:40  <Ammler> Rubidium: andythenorth does change all his sprites because the lights are wrong (as it would matter)
21:04:13  <Ammler> the source of light is according to him always from south-east
21:04:32  <planetmaker> I think andy's arguments are right
21:04:54  <andythenorth> Ammler: it's not according to me
21:04:55  <Ammler> yes, you also think the wind should have same direction :-P
21:04:57  <andythenorth> it's according to the sprites
21:05:00  <planetmaker> and if he fancies to do it 'correct' - whether or not most users care or not - is only up to him. Especially if it gives a warm fuzzy feeling inside
21:05:13  <planetmaker> Ammler: I think it's not possible ;-)
21:05:32  <andythenorth> the wind is probably limited by sprite bounding boxes
21:05:38  <andythenorth> or he just forgot when drawing
21:05:39  <Ammler> oh, I never told andy not to fix his sprites
21:05:52  <Ammler> I just told him that is useless work
21:06:09  <planetmaker> nope. But if he's happy to fix his sprites, it's also IMHO not nice to say it's useless
21:06:22  <Ammler> yes, it is also wrong
21:06:26  <planetmaker> As it - IMHO - is not entirely useless. It will add to a better overall impression
21:06:27  * andythenorth thinks marking work for TTD as 'useless' and 'not useless' has somewhat missed a point :P
21:06:29  <Ammler> or what you mean :-P
21:07:04  <Ammler> andythenorth: it was a summery of our whole discussion ;-)
21:07:08  <andythenorth> on the grand scale of 'uselessness' we are all of us here not far off lolcats
21:07:11  <planetmaker> Ammler: and IMHO you're wrong, if you state that andy's wrong in doing what he thinks is improvement where he has good reasons for
21:07:23  <andythenorth> or possibly even more useless than lolcats
21:08:05  <Terkhen> the fun supplied by OpenTTD lasts longer than a lolcat, but probably less than a lolcat gallery
21:08:06  <planetmaker> useless is a discussion whether the way someone spends his time is useful or useless when he insists that it's an improvement to things ;-)
21:08:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: the point was just that is right for him but wrong for me
21:08:15  <Ammler> it is all fine over all
21:08:18  <planetmaker> Ammler: why wrong for you?
21:08:36  <Ammler> because I don't think the light and wind needs to be one source
21:08:52  <planetmaker> the light yes. For the wind I can accept your argument
21:09:05  <andythenorth> I find the argument about light odd and can't really argue against it
21:09:07  <planetmaker> that's why I stopped worrying about wind currently
21:09:08  <andythenorth> it is just wrong
21:09:19  <Ammler> from your personal view, which is ok ;-)
21:09:37  <andythenorth> well
21:09:40  <Ammler> as said, the author rules
21:10:38  <Ammler> well, I would also accept a "wrong", if someone contributes sprites with light source north
21:11:04  <Ammler> but east is ok
21:11:14  <Ammler> as is your south-east
21:11:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 670:23868ac170b3: Change: Use the proper name in the readme and update changelog (planetmaker) @
21:11:53  <andythenorth> he
21:12:09  <andythenorth> and maybe we could start drawing 1 pixel up for every 1 across
21:12:20  <andythenorth> or 1 pixel up for every 3 across
21:12:34  <Ammler> why that?
21:12:41  <andythenorth> because 2:1 isometric is no more or less correct than 3:1 isometric, or 45'
21:12:52  <andythenorth> the author rules
21:12:54  <Ammler> don't get that
21:13:15  <Ammler> well, that is technically not possible
21:14:12  <Ammler> as said, your sprites aren't wrong, just your brain :-P
21:14:25  <Ammler> fix your brain first
21:14:37  <andythenorth> you think I couldn't draw 3:1?
21:15:10  <Ammler> I have no clue, what you mean with that
21:16:21  <Ammler> the isometric 2:1 is not a defination, that is pure geometrie or physics or however that is called
21:16:39  <Ammler> definition*
21:16:52  <Ammler> mäh
21:18:27  <Ammler> you are also the only one, who can blame you that your sprites are wrong, everyone else would ear slaps
21:20:27  <Ammler> and planetmaker, saying that andy is right would implicit that opengfx is wrong
21:20:58  <planetmaker> partially. yes
21:21:04  <Ammler> :'-(
21:21:22  <planetmaker> I'd not call it 'wrong'. But it has potential for improvement anyway
21:21:28  <Ammler> ugly
21:22:24  <Ammler> since you draw yourself, do you care about that and did you make it "right"?
21:22:42  <planetmaker> most notably the best argument is the way how things look best. And they do indeed when light is not exactly East, but South-East
21:23:03  <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm not there yet, not good enough. But yes, I'd try to
21:23:20  <Ammler> :-)
21:23:21  <planetmaker> and trees... maybe I could have done better
21:24:14  <Ammler> how do you compare that?
21:24:29  <andythenorth> 3:1 works ok
21:24:29  <andythenorth>
21:24:35  <Ammler> I mean, how you know something looks better from south-east than from east?
21:24:39  * andythenorth will switch FIRS to 3:1 from now on
21:25:15  <Ammler> andythenorth: as said, that is geometry, not definition
21:25:24  <andythenorth> hmm
21:25:31  <Ammler> the light source is simple defination
21:25:31  <andythenorth> I fail to understand the distinction
21:25:33  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:25:45  <andythenorth> Ammler: we're discussing at cross purpose
21:25:50  <andythenorth> or some such
21:25:57  <Ammler> I guess so
21:26:12  <Ammler> you can't change the isometric
21:26:18  <andythenorth> why not?
21:26:23  <andythenorth> it's just author's opinion
21:26:28  <Ammler> that is given, you would need to change the whole engine
21:27:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth: 3:1?
21:27:10  <andythenorth> he :)
21:27:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 671:47147dad1521: Added tag 0.3.4 for changeset 23868ac170b3 (planetmaker) @
21:27:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 672:bb12c09895e5: Fix: Don't fail cleaning when there's no graphics source fil... (planetmaker) @
21:27:20  <andythenorth> Ammler: is right, the case is not quite the same
21:27:33  <planetmaker> urgs. That tag should not be there :S
21:28:19  <andythenorth> Ammler: only the tile size would need to change
21:28:30  <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.3.3 to 0.3.4 done -
21:28:41  <andythenorth> a simple compression of y values should do it on the fly
21:28:45  <Ammler> andythenorth: not sure, it is imo quite complicated
21:28:47  <andythenorth> maybe we can make it an advanced setting
21:29:12  <Ammler> also the "angle" of the map view
21:29:13  <andythenorth> it's only a scaling of each tile
21:29:19  <Ammler> not sure, if possible at all
21:29:27  <andythenorth> sure it is :)
21:29:45  <Ammler> are there games with that view?
21:29:48  <andythenorth> the sprite sorter still has to sort in the same order
21:29:58  <andythenorth> nothing moved relative to each other, only the 'camera'
21:30:22  <andythenorth> you might have an interesting time building routes though
21:30:32  <andythenorth> as you won't be able to see them a lot of the time
21:31:04  <andythenorth> anyway
21:31:09  * andythenorth should go to bed
21:31:29  <andythenorth> and hopes never to speak of this again
21:31:31  <andythenorth> except to correct people who are lighting wrong
21:31:35  <planetmaker> hm, I guess I'll just re-tag it
21:31:45  <Terkhen> good night andythenorth
21:31:45  <planetmaker> even though I don't advise it ;-)
21:31:54  <Ammler> yes, good night andy
21:32:22  <Ammler> oh Terkhen, there is a ticket you should close, reject or whatever
21:32:25  <planetmaker> g'night andythenorth
21:32:31  <Terkhen> what ticket?
21:32:31  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
21:32:50  <Ammler> #2640
21:32:50  <Brot6> Ammler: #2640 is "OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #2640: DevZone compile failed - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
21:32:58  <Ammler> wasn't it valid?
21:33:56  <Terkhen> hmm... the first time it compiled a nightly instead of the release, the second time it compiled the right version, I'll close it
21:34:40  <Ammler> were I able to explain it?
21:34:49  <Ammler> I remember the case
21:35:07  <Ammler> but I have no clue, If I were able to fix it
21:35:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #2640 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Terkhen) @
21:35:23  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't remember talking much about the issue
21:36:37  <Ammler> ok, then worth to forget it
21:36:43  <Ammler> until it might happen again
21:37:27  <Ammler> planetmaker: retagging is fine as long as it would happen immediately
21:37:54  <planetmaker> yes
21:38:04  <planetmaker> this was stretching it
21:38:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 673:69bf803671b9: Added tag 0.3.4 for changeset bb12c09895e5 (planetmaker) @
21:38:44  <Ammler> I would say as long as not announced :-)
21:39:40  <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.3.4 to 0.3.4 done -
21:40:31  <planetmaker> the first one only happens as a hg rollback doesn't set back the .hgtags file :S
21:41:58  <Ammler> but then, how did the commit happen?
21:42:11  <planetmaker> I commited a Makefile fix
21:42:18  <planetmaker> with the changed tag file
21:42:32  <Ammler> hmm, but there were 2 commits
21:42:47  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:43:21  <planetmaker> hm... don't ask me :-P
21:55:30  <planetmaker> Rubidium: could you be so kind to sync opengfx to the mirrors - if that should be needed
21:56:08  <Ammler> it does not just sync
21:56:11  <Ammler> it does build
21:59:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.3.4 released (planetmaker) @
22:01:36  <Ammler> you miss links on the news post
22:10:34  <planetmaker> in the devzone news?
22:12:45  <Ammler> yes
22:12:55  <Ammler> well, those are also on
22:13:37  <Terkhen> time for flagging packages as outdated :)
22:15:16  <Terkhen> I'll wait until a news link is posted :P
22:15:31  <Terkhen> ah, it's already there :)
22:31:33  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1355:9feef6706b73: Fix: engine_override was broken (yexo) @
22:48:05  <planetmaker> good night

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