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04:57:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:41:25 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2727 (New): Desert variation for food market - Cacti? (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2727 05:43:02 <planetmaker> hm, strange. In our last yacd game i didn't have the impression of lime kilns being over-abundant 05:43:21 <Terkhen> or at least not more abundant than other secondaries 05:43:32 <planetmaker> ^ 05:49:32 <andythenorth> depends when you start to some extent 05:49:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2022:e146a09d1dae: Feature: snow graphics for Food Marke... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/e146a09d1dae 05:49:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2023:0936f5d0ecb7: Cleanup: unneeded pcx files (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0936f5d0ecb7 05:49:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1803 (Closed): Food Market needs snow graphics (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1803#change-6852 05:50:17 <andythenorth> I set them high originally, because in mediaeval times many towns had small lime kilns 05:50:27 <andythenorth> but then I didn't bother drawing the small version :P 05:54:57 <Terkhen> :D 05:55:28 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:55:29 <Terkhen> maybe we do not notice the issue because you usually start at an earlier date than us? 06:02:51 <andythenorth> Terkhen: imo it's worse with yacd - too much coal gets sent to lime kilns 06:03:01 <andythenorth> which unbalances ENSP + goods chains 06:04:20 <Terkhen> IMO yacd should give NewGRF cargos and industries new properties to adjust their behavior 06:06:30 * andythenorth agrees 06:06:53 <andythenorth> but should be quite blunt 06:07:01 <andythenorth> if it's too fine-grained, that's too much testing to do :P 06:07:02 <Terkhen> not now though, but once that yacd is completed 06:07:46 <Terkhen> the cargo based parameters that it has now might get in the way, though 06:09:46 <andythenorth> #2662 06:09:46 <Brot6> andythenorth: #2662 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2662 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2662: German translation - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 06:09:53 <andythenorth> #2455 06:09:53 <Brot6> andythenorth: #2455 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2455 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2455: Updated Polish translation. - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 06:10:03 <andythenorth> ^ would anyone be able to do those tickets? 06:10:07 <andythenorth> it would help me greatly 06:13:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2728 (New): Snow graphics for Hotel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2728 06:20:09 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'll add #2455 06:20:09 <Brot6> Terkhen: andythenorth: #2455 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2455 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2455: Updated Polish translation. - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 06:20:48 <Terkhen> also, what did you need me to check regarding opening/closure? 06:21:56 <andythenorth> Terkhen: there is a parameter wrt opening 06:22:18 <andythenorth> if True, it should prevent (a) player funding industry (b) random industry construction during gameplay 06:22:53 <Terkhen> ok 06:36:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2024:678cf6ccee34: Change: some work to support snow for... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/678cf6ccee34 06:36:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2025:777289714f9e: Cleanup: refactor HOTELRESTAURANT def... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/777289714f9e 06:38:14 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2026:9e593ad15eb9: Change: (translations) remove 'Restau... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9e593ad15eb9 06:39:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: planetmaker I wish to do #2289, but I'm not sure what breaks the translation framework... 06:39:17 <Brot6> andythenorth: Terkhen: #2289 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2289 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2289: Cargo string IDs could be refactored - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 06:39:24 <Brot6> OpenGFX Trees - Revision 50:4192f726d725: Add: tropical tree (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trees/repository/revisions/4192f726d725 06:40:18 <Terkhen> andythenorth: and stuff like TEXT_INFO_AVAILABILITY_1610 could use a single string with parameters instead 06:40:31 <Terkhen> IMO it's better to wait until the nml conversion for that one 06:40:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: if FIRS is converted to NML, changes to the translation framework certainly is the thing which least work should be put in 06:40:56 <andythenorth> I might remove redundant string defines though - it will simplify the NML conversion? 06:41:15 <planetmaker> no. Only the strings in the grf will be used anyway. 06:41:28 <andythenorth> interestink 06:41:32 <andythenorth> maybe I bounce that ticket then 06:41:34 <planetmaker> the extra "clutter" of unused stuff won't be converted 06:42:04 <andythenorth> 15 tickets left for 0.7 06:42:13 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2289: String IDs could be refactored (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2289#change-6856 06:42:27 <andythenorth> it's raining 06:42:34 <andythenorth> maybe a good day to improve this? http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Recommended_Standards 06:42:48 <planetmaker> not raining here, luckily 06:43:21 <planetmaker> Later there'll be "classics in the park" - the state symphony orchestra playing for free in the town's park :-) 06:43:25 <Terkhen> andythenorth: #2455 is not an update, it actually removes a few strings 06:43:25 <Brot6> Terkhen: andythenorth: #2455 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2455 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2455: Updated Polish translation. - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 06:44:06 <planetmaker> you may have noticed andythenorth that I updated the page slightly ;-) 06:56:35 <andythenorth> good headings 06:56:48 <Terkhen> what page? 06:56:59 <Terkhen> oh, I missed that line :P 06:59:51 <planetmaker> they need to catch. And if people hear the word license, 80% instantaneously fall asleep 07:01:19 <Terkhen> yes :P 07:01:25 <Terkhen> IMO you should go for something shorter 07:01:41 <planetmaker> than? 07:03:48 <andythenorth> I think some of the sentences can be shorter 07:03:58 <andythenorth> but moreover - maybe we change the structure 07:04:05 <andythenorth> I think there needs to be a 'getting started' 07:04:11 <andythenorth> and 'as you progress with your grf' 07:04:29 <Terkhen> planetmaker: a shorter, right to the point document 07:04:47 <Terkhen> and an extended version later in the way of a FAQ if anyone wants to read more 07:05:06 * andythenorth wonders 07:05:08 <andythenorth> - principles 07:05:11 <andythenorth> - practicalities 07:05:13 <andythenorth> - detail 07:05:24 <andythenorth> principles is community standards 07:05:28 <planetmaker> Terkhen: to the point could be just the headings ;-) 07:05:37 <andythenorth> practicalities is things like tools, version control, lighting 07:05:54 <andythenorth> - detail is more on things like compatibility checks etc 07:06:16 * andythenorth had better read the ttdp wiki tutorials section again 07:06:26 <andythenorth> or we'll have too many locations 07:06:33 <andythenorth> a canonical location would be good 07:06:38 <andythenorth> newgrf.org 07:08:02 <andythenorth> this is somewhat outdated.... 07:08:02 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Preliminaries 07:08:13 <andythenorth> if that was the first thing I saw about newgrf it might not be helpful 07:08:46 <planetmaker> yes. Those general help pages there are actually very unhelpful except graphics and coordinates 07:08:53 <Terkhen> IMO a central place for newgrfs should not contain those guidelines (or at least not as a official thing); otherwise people that don't agree with them will not support newgrf.org either 07:09:28 <planetmaker> I think it should contain those guidelines. Not as mandatory, but as that: a guideline 07:09:55 <andythenorth> me too 07:10:18 <andythenorth> although I may regret that :P 07:11:05 <Terkhen> as much as I agree with the guidelines, a split up of the newgrf community would be worse than not following the guidelines 07:11:17 <planetmaker> Yes, agreed. 07:11:37 <planetmaker> That's why it has to be clear that it's not mandatory. 07:11:49 <Terkhen> I'd say: pursue newgrf.org first and once it is established worry about the guidelines :P 07:11:52 <planetmaker> But new authors will want and need guidelines 07:12:04 <andythenorth> hmm 07:12:07 <planetmaker> I'd like to have know much of what I learnt the hard way about compatibility 07:12:09 <Terkhen> no, new authors want tutorials 07:12:12 <andythenorth> these are primarily ottd guidelines 07:12:16 <andythenorth> not general newgrf 07:12:26 <planetmaker> yes, they want that, of course 07:12:46 <planetmaker> hm, Ammler can we have another VM for starting with newgrf.org? 07:13:14 <planetmaker> I guess we'd need a mediawiki there 07:14:01 <andythenorth> the ttdpatch newgrf community have their own way of doing things 07:14:14 <planetmaker> you mean those two people? :-P 07:14:18 <planetmaker> or three 07:14:27 <planetmaker> that are left of it 07:14:47 <planetmaker> I'd not count pikka and george as part of it. 07:15:03 * andythenorth reserves comment on that :P 07:15:09 <planetmaker> :-D 07:15:16 <andythenorth> however much of current documentation on ttdp wiki is very ttdp specific 07:15:20 <andythenorth> as you might expect :P 07:15:23 <andythenorth> e.g. http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VariableVehicleID 07:15:25 <planetmaker> "TTDPatch is basically unsupported and I can't be bothered to test that" 07:15:31 <planetmaker> guess who said that? :-P 07:15:34 <planetmaker> (hint: not me) 07:16:02 <planetmaker> yes, it is. We might "fix" that during a transition 07:16:27 <andythenorth> and such as this: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RoadVehicleIDRecommendation 07:16:59 <planetmaker> well, it should be kept, but clearly marked as "TTDPatch only" 07:18:02 <Terkhen> those pages are IMO not part of the specs 07:18:19 <Terkhen> they should go to a TTDPatch only annex to them 07:18:45 <Terkhen> I'd say: copy and (if needed) rewrite and clarify the specs 07:18:50 <Terkhen> and copy pages like that as they are 07:19:13 <Terkhen> there is also TTDPatch stuff not related to NewGRFs in that wiki, those pages should be ignored 07:20:54 <planetmaker> agreed 07:22:14 <Terkhen> for the recommended standards it might not matter that much, but for newgrf.org you really should try to get everyone on board 07:22:36 <andythenorth> meh 07:22:56 <andythenorth> mediawiki :( 07:23:00 <andythenorth> oh well 07:23:21 <planetmaker> I've no hard preference. But it's what both OpenTTD and #openttdcoop use for their wikis 07:23:24 * andythenorth grumbles - why would someone invent an 'easy' markup language that is harder to use than actual html 07:23:27 <planetmaker> would keep things about the same 07:23:30 <andythenorth> but nvm 07:23:41 <planetmaker> and the current tikiwiki has its limitations 07:23:54 <Terkhen> to keep things about the same you should use an antediluvian tikiwiki :P 07:23:56 * andythenorth has some thoughts about getting started - and will write them down 07:24:09 <andythenorth> "First we need to write a better wiki software" 07:24:14 <andythenorth> ^ and this way our project is never done 07:24:27 <Terkhen> it already exists 07:24:32 <Terkhen> use plain text files 07:24:46 <andythenorth> is NML yet the recommended authoring language? 07:24:52 <andythenorth> we should make a recommendation 07:25:09 <Terkhen> NML does not have complete support for all features 07:25:11 <planetmaker> it speaks for itself. And no, NML cannot be recommended in all cases 07:25:17 <planetmaker> for the reason Terkhen stated 07:25:28 <andythenorth> ok 07:25:29 <planetmaker> no houses and stations 07:25:43 <andythenorth> is it likely to be forthcoming? 07:25:51 <planetmaker> well, sure 07:26:17 <andythenorth> if I had first done a tutorial on 'getting your first vehicle into the game', I would have saved a lot of wasted time 07:26:18 <planetmaker> iirc chips was made so that yexo understands the intricacies of stations in detail :-) 07:26:29 <planetmaker> (or at least one part of the motivation) 07:26:59 <andythenorth> designing a set entirely on paper, or by drawing graphics, with no understanding of spec, is an anti-pattern 07:27:10 <planetmaker> hm? 07:27:20 <andythenorth> that was a horrible sentence sorry :P 07:27:33 <Terkhen> andythenorth: IMO a recommendation is not needed 07:27:40 <andythenorth> no but a tutorial might be 07:27:47 <andythenorth> and the tutorial has to make a choice 07:27:50 <Terkhen> something on the lines of "nfo is ... and nml is ..." 07:27:53 <Terkhen> should be enough 07:28:05 <Terkhen> then, whoever is interested in nfo can add nfo tutorials 07:28:11 <Terkhen> and people interested in nml can do the same 07:28:21 <andythenorth> hmm 07:28:22 <andythenorth> ok 07:28:31 <planetmaker> yes, I think it needs no recommendation 07:28:41 <Terkhen> new authors can check both tutorials and see what they prefer by thenselves :P 07:28:44 <Terkhen> themselves* 07:28:49 <planetmaker> same as C doesn't need recommendation over assembler ;-) 07:29:16 <andythenorth> sounds similar to Pyramid, which has two different ways to approach app design. But neither is better. 07:29:27 <andythenorth> so there are two 'getting started' tutorials 07:30:35 <andythenorth> what are the options for authoring a grf? 07:30:46 <andythenorth> nml 07:30:48 <andythenorth> nfo 07:30:51 <andythenorth> grfmaker 07:30:58 <Terkhen> yes 07:31:01 <andythenorth> are there are any others that are really viable and supported? 07:31:04 <andythenorth> m4nfo 07:31:27 <andythenorth> what s grfwizard? 07:31:46 <Terkhen> m4nfo is being developed or it is just a plan? 07:32:02 <andythenorth> I think it's released and brilliant 07:32:02 <Terkhen> iirc grfwizard was just a grfcodec wrapper for windows users, but I'm not sure 07:32:07 <andythenorth> in an alternative universe :P 07:32:36 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I think mb develops in it 07:33:02 <planetmaker> and in the German forums (started) a tutorial about his (of course unreleased) way of writing the (of course unreleased) DBSet 07:33:14 <Terkhen> if it has not been released then there is no point to mention it on newgrf.org 07:33:21 <planetmaker> ^ 07:33:50 <Terkhen> as soon as it is released it can be added 07:34:11 <planetmaker> quite so 07:34:20 <planetmaker> I doubt it will ever happen. 07:34:31 <andythenorth> so nfo, nml, grfmaker 07:34:36 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it will 07:34:42 <planetmaker> I don't expect any return to the community by him... 07:34:42 <Rubidium> when dbset xl 0.9 is released 07:34:47 <Terkhen> "as soon as it is released" can mean "after the heat death of the universe" 07:34:50 <Rubidium> and it's sources are released 07:34:57 <Rubidium> s/'// 07:35:09 <planetmaker> dbset's sources? hahaha 07:36:34 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4381 07:36:35 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Useful Graphic Tools & Sites & Install Guides (at www.tt-forums.net) 07:37:22 <andythenorth> I find Pikka's tutorials the most useful: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page#NFO_Editing 07:37:48 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/267/ <-- logs for 100 years, with "Prevent industries opening during gameplay" on and both closure options off 07:38:01 <Terkhen> looks good :P 07:38:09 <andythenorth> indeed :) 07:38:22 <andythenorth> was there any AI running which might build industry? 07:38:36 <Terkhen> no, but I couldn't build them 07:38:37 * andythenorth wishes there was a way to automatically test 07:38:49 <Terkhen> if an AI can build them and a player not then it is a bug in OpenTTD 07:39:02 <Terkhen> oh, that 07:39:04 <andythenorth> it would have saved you trying :) 07:39:13 <Terkhen> yes, it would be feasible to do something like that 07:39:28 <andythenorth> there is no possibility of unit tests in a newgrf afaik 07:39:28 <Terkhen> right now OpenTTD has a regression AI used to test if anything has changed 07:39:53 <andythenorth> it would be useful to be able to unit test, e.g. production code 07:40:00 <andythenorth> and location code 07:40:09 * andythenorth dislikes unit tests a lot, but they can be useful 07:40:11 <Terkhen> what does "unit test" means? 07:40:39 <andythenorth> lmgtfy 07:40:44 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_testing 07:40:45 <Webster> Title: Unit testing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 07:41:02 <andythenorth> typically the way they're used in projects I work on is: 07:41:18 <andythenorth> you write unit test code that tries to make some edge case or error occur 07:41:22 * Terkhen did not study that with the same name that appears on spanish wikipedia :P 07:42:01 <andythenorth> I found that unit tests which try to break stuff are more useful 07:42:08 <andythenorth> than unit tests that try to confirm stuff is working correctly 07:47:25 * andythenorth tries to list the essential 'getting started' items http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/268/ 07:47:59 * planetmaker should really try to fix this internal server error thingy :S 07:48:25 <planetmaker> but I don't quite know which VM it runs on... 08:02:33 <andythenorth> expanded: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/269/ 08:02:40 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you can't see the pastes? 08:03:04 <planetmaker> Currently I can't 08:03:28 <planetmaker> and obviously it's a problem only local to me. why ever 08:04:19 <andythenorth> you're logged in somehow? 08:04:25 <andythenorth> you have a session cookie set? 08:05:02 <planetmaker> dunno how that'll trigger a 500 08:05:02 <andythenorth> try clearing the lodgeit sessions from your cookies 08:06:08 <andythenorth> if there's something in the app that is looking in your cookie, you might get a 500 on an edge case 08:06:26 <andythenorth> similarly if it's trying to authenticate you for some reason that could be a cause 08:08:27 <planetmaker> hm... does FF have a GUI for cookies? I guess not... 08:09:12 <Terkhen> I had to delete cookies for paste.openttdcoop.org once, I don't remember what happened though 08:10:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: preferences -> privacy -> show cookies 08:10:54 <planetmaker> ah... quite tiny link ;-) Thanks. Looked there but didn't see it 08:11:37 <planetmaker> you're my hero andythenorth 08:11:39 <planetmaker> :-) 08:12:17 * Rubidium can't find any cookies in his preferred private cookie jar ;) 08:12:25 <planetmaker> :-P 08:12:28 *** bodis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:32:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2728 (Closed): Snow graphics for Hotel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2728 08:32:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2027:93664e10dcb4: Feature: snow graphics for Hotel (clo... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/93664e10dcb4 08:32:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2728 (Closed): Snow graphics for Hotel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2728#change-6857 08:32:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2662: German translation (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2662#change-6858 08:33:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. But probably not before the 0.7 release is imminent ;-) 08:34:11 <andythenorth> there is a few weeks of work left for me to do :0 08:34:27 <planetmaker> and other strings might change as well ;-) 08:34:35 <planetmaker> Thus in order to avoid double work ... ;-) 08:35:47 <planetmaker> probably it'll be a good thing to ask ~1 week before the planned release for additional translations 08:35:54 <planetmaker> in the forums thread 08:49:21 <andythenorth> often we leave translations until 0.x.1 I guess anyway 08:49:40 <andythenorth> I don't know when the NML conversion will take place :| 08:49:55 <andythenorth> maybe I bounce the translation tickets 09:15:14 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Patch #2729 (New): Fix FSF address and GPL text (Heffer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2729 09:28:58 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Patch #2729: Fix FSF address and GPL text (Heffer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2729#change-6861 09:38:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: btw I made it possible to more easily customise CC for each industry type 09:39:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2028:2e94c0d208c3: Change: provide framework for adding ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/2e94c0d208c3 09:39:06 <planetmaker> :-) sweet 10:06:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2029:a411da9cb2a6: Feature: snow graphics for Petrol Pum... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a411da9cb2a6 10:06:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1799 (Closed): Petrol Pump needs snow graphics (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1799#change-6862 10:12:36 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2730 (New): Fix roof shading on Quarry / Clay Pit buildings (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2730 10:16:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2030:98b79e832fa9: Cleanup: remove unused source files (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/98b79e832fa9 10:20:48 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 242:a5c2316deec2: -Codechange #2632: Support limestone as cargo explic... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/a5c2316deec2 10:20:48 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2632 (Closed): Limestone missing from cargo table (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2632#change-6863 10:22:51 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #2367 (Rejected): Consistently define all vehicles as new, fixed IDs (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2367#change-6864 10:23:33 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1895 (Closed): Adjust cargo definitions to match OpenGFX+ RV (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1895#change-6865 10:34:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:38:16 <Terkhen> :) 10:47:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2031:99bf10b095a7: Feature: improve appearance of Arable... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/99bf10b095a7 10:47:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2032:3732df5819b2: Feature: improve appearance of Fruit ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3732df5819b2 10:47:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2033:2b7388fded4f: Feature: improve appearance of Dairy ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/2b7388fded4f 10:47:49 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2034:b09564cacc8c: Feature: improve appearance of Mixed ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/b09564cacc8c 10:47:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2035:fba28d5fcd11: Feature: improve appearance of Sheep ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/fba28d5fcd11 10:47:57 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2530 (Closed): Change roof pitch of farmhouse (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2530#change-6866 10:49:04 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/haydn registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/haydn 10:49:04 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/haydn created 10:50:43 <andythenorth> ho 10:51:43 <Terkhen> haydn? what project is that? :P 10:51:56 <Terkhen> are we getting new music? :P 10:52:09 <planetmaker> haydn is the hypervisor everything runs on 10:52:18 <Terkhen> oh, ok :) 10:52:31 * andythenorth wonders how many frames animation a flag needs 10:52:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: speed 3 or 4 10:52:53 <planetmaker> oh. frames: 4 10:52:59 <planetmaker> like airport wind sock 10:53:21 <planetmaker> anyway. see you later 10:58:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2036:4a097d4feebe: Change: use PNG for Dairy instead of PCX (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/4a097d4feebe 11:50:38 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2037:47f88cf1a539: Change: provide a framework to animat... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/47f88cf1a539 12:17:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2038:108c84358bab: Change: Junk Yard uses improved 'near... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/108c84358bab 12:17:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2039:6ccd611ed253: Fix: Junk Yard wasn't handling cb28 c... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/6ccd611ed253 12:17:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2040:f4d899b8db53: Fix: wrong parameter for var 66 in to... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f4d899b8db53 12:28:12 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2731 (New): All the defines for cb28 varaction 2 ID shou... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2731 12:32:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2041:9ffbc0767f5e: Change: Brewery uses improved 'near t... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9ffbc0767f5e 12:32:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2042:4f04df69734a: Cleanup: remove unneeded templates (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/4f04df69734a 12:32:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2043:4c0acad24363: Change: Builders Yard uses improved '... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/4c0acad24363 12:34:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2044:9c3a78206d0e: Cleanup: remove unneeded templates (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9c3a78206d0e 12:36:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2045:61b0849896c4: Cleanup: forget deleted file (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/61b0849896c4 12:38:39 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #997 (Closed): Textile Mill needs some greeble / fenced t... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/997#change-6868 12:39:34 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #477 (Rejected): Retail Market graphics (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/477#change-6869 12:43:57 * andythenorth finds Bilge odd 12:44:06 <andythenorth> and will do something else than talk to him 12:44:09 <Terkhen> andythenorth: Bilge is always trying to annoy anyone who talks with him, I suggest that you ignore him 12:44:11 <Terkhen> :P 12:45:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1055 (Rejected): Strange availability date behaviour (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1055#change-6871 12:46:10 * andythenorth wants less than 84 FIRS tickets :P 12:46:24 <Terkhen> :) 12:47:20 <Terkhen> I still don't understand the plan... will you be porting all of that stuff once that the nml conversion is done? or will 0.6.5 be a "test release" for NML and we will convert trunk again later? 12:50:17 <andythenorth> port 0.6.4 to NML, release 0.6.5 for players to test 12:50:23 <andythenorth> that gets the conversion script tested 12:50:30 <andythenorth> meanwhile keep working on 0.7 12:50:38 <andythenorth> then use the (tested) conversion script on that 12:50:53 <andythenorth> and then the pain of porting all the comments, the template structure, everything else 12:51:10 <andythenorth> FIRS makes use of modular templates *a lot* 12:51:16 <Terkhen> ok :) 12:51:35 <Terkhen> so 0.6.5 does not actually need to convert everything to nice code 12:51:39 <andythenorth> no 12:51:42 <andythenorth> just a working newgrf 12:51:55 <andythenorth> then we see if 'many eyes makes shallow bugs' works 12:52:23 <Terkhen> I see, then 0.6.5 is only missing action14 conversion and maybe something else :P 12:52:31 <andythenorth> sooner it was done, the better... 12:52:46 <andythenorth> the download rate won't be that high - no new features 12:52:56 <andythenorth> we'll primarily be depending on coop games and such to test it 12:53:36 <Terkhen> once I finish with university (15 of july or something like that) I will have plenty of time for start with the nice conversion; ideally 0.6.5 could be released long before that 12:53:47 <Terkhen> we could do another coop yacd test game with 0.6.5 ;) 12:54:19 <andythenorth> that would be ideal 12:54:30 <andythenorth> although it's so far behind trunk that it makes my eyes bleed :P 12:54:37 <Terkhen> :D 12:54:44 <andythenorth> many graphics have been improved since 0.6.4 12:56:07 <Terkhen> changes to sprites could be backported to the 0.6 branch; the conversion does not deal with them at all (as long as you did not change offsets and so on) 12:56:15 <Terkhen> that could be a selling point for 0.6.5 12:56:27 <Terkhen> changes to layouts and so on shouldn't be backported, though 12:56:30 <Terkhen> time for lunch, bbl 12:57:00 <andythenorth> me too 13:51:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1397:65f77091497c: Cleanup: Replace all tabs with spaces in the r... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/65f77091497c 13:57:45 <Yexo> Hirundo: do you also plan on changes the nml output? 13:57:49 <Yexo> as that uses tabs too 13:59:03 <Hirundo> Does it? (looks) 13:59:25 <Yexo> see all __str__ functions in ast/ 14:01:09 <Hirundo> For NML output tabs make more sense, as the average user is likely to expect those 14:01:38 <Hirundo> I switched to spaces for the regression tests, so I don't have to reconfigure my editor every time I edit those tests 14:02:23 <Yexo> ok, fair enough 14:12:04 <andythenorth> Yexo: would drawing graphics really make any difference to NewAirports progress (given the many other projects we're all working on)? 14:12:51 <Yexo> not really, there are two separate projects: Creating rotated versions off all default airports, this needs mostly graphics and a little bit of nfo or nml code 14:13:01 <Yexo> that project is currently halted because of lack of graphics 14:13:25 <Yexo> there is also the NewAirports projects, allowing new statemachines written in newgrfs 14:13:47 <Yexo> I'm not going to work on that anytime soon, since it's still a big project and I won't have time to finish it before my holiday 14:20:56 <andythenorth> ok 14:21:01 * andythenorth -> back to FIRS 14:54:01 * andythenorth inflicts evil on whoever next pulls FIRS :o 14:56:18 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2046:656b70884867: Change: rerrange graphics sources to ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/656b70884867 14:56:47 <andythenorth> 23MB of graphics source changes :( 14:57:31 <Yexo> did you actually change any graphics files or just move them around? 14:59:33 <andythenorth> moved them around 15:00:20 <Terkhen> 21s for pull :) 15:01:03 <Ammler> hashed_password = hashlib.sha1(row[2] + hashlib.sha1(password).hexdigest()).hexdigest() 15:01:04 <Ammler> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' 15:01:09 <Ammler> is this some python version issue? 15:02:38 <Yexo> Ammler: "row[2]" is actually None instead of a string 15:03:19 <Yexo> doesn't look like a typical python version issue 15:05:00 <Ammler> ah ok 15:05:01 <Ammler> possible 16:03:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2047:a10256b7769e: Change: add snow tile to ground tiles (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a10256b7769e 17:09:17 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2732 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2732 17:11:50 <Yexo> Ammler: "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 503: Service Temporarily Unavailable" <- that shouldn't generate a ticker 17:13:06 <Ammler> well, I test that, but mayb it happen between my test and the building... 17:13:26 <Yexo> it's no big deal :) 17:13:36 <Yexo> should I just close the ticket or assign to you? 17:14:29 <Ammler> and what should I do with it? 17:14:54 <Ammler> I could also just reject/delete :-) 17:14:57 <planetmaker> improve the check ;-) 17:15:09 <Ammler> planetmaker: not worth :-P 17:15:51 <planetmaker> probably :-) 17:18:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2733 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2733 17:18:45 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2732 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2732 17:18:45 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2732 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2732#change-6873 17:18:46 <andythenorth> missing file? 17:18:59 <andythenorth> no 17:19:40 <Ammler> hmm 17:20:06 <Ammler> why does the curl not work anymore? 17:22:55 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2734 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2734 17:23:24 <Ammler> the issue is that the api is reachable but the service is down 17:26:39 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r93), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), fish (r653), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r34), grfcodec (r830), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), 17:26:39 <Brot6> indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r294), nml (ERROR r1397), nutracks (r201), ogfx-industries (r119), ogfx-landscape (r69), ogfx-rv (r107), opengfx (r673), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs (r36), 17:26:41 <Brot6> worldairlinersset (r672) 17:27:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX Trees - Bug #2735 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2735 17:27:44 <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-landscape/nightlies/ERROR/r66 17:28:22 <Ammler> :'-( 17:28:34 <Ammler> this really sucks 17:30:01 <planetmaker> maybe it needs testing after all ;-) 17:31:58 <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-opengfx/nightlies/ERROR/r666 17:32:44 <Ammler> oh, helpful really 17:33:07 <Ammler> testing is needed, if you don't know, what's the issue, I know the issue :-P 17:34:39 <planetmaker> :-P 17:34:42 <planetmaker> sorry 17:39:14 <Ammler> I have an idea to check service too, but it sucks anyway... 18:23:09 <andythenorth> Ammler: I blame r666 ^ 18:23:14 <andythenorth> it's a bad number :P 18:23:29 <Terkhen> :D 18:23:40 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 831:2b9ec70508a8: -Fix [FS#1629]: we still refered to an old FSF address and ... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/2b9ec70508a8 18:23:49 <Rubidium> blont! 18:25:03 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Patch #2729 (Closed): Fix FSF address and GPL text (Heffer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2729 18:25:03 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Patch #2729 (Closed): Fix FSF address and GPL text (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2729#change-6874 18:59:39 <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r830 to r831 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec/nightlies/r831 18:59:58 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r93), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), firs (ERROR r2047), fish (r653), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r34), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), 18:59:58 <Brot6> indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r294), nml (ERROR r1397), nutracks (r201), ogfx-industries (r119), ogfx-landscape (r69), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-trains (ERROR r242), ogfx-trees (ERROR r50), opengfx (r673), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), 19:00:00 <Brot6> transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r672) 19:04:34 <Brot6> firs: update from r2013 to r2047 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2047 19:08:40 <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from r49 to r50 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trees/nightlies/r50 19:10:33 <Brot6> opengfx: rebuild of r673 done (Diffsize: 7) (DiffDiffsize: 8) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r673/log 19:11:28 <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-landscape/nightlies/ERROR/r66 19:12:20 <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-opengfx/nightlies/ERROR/r666 19:14:18 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (6 errors), 32bpp-extra (2 errors), basecosts, bros (1 errors), chips (1 errors), comic-houses (3 errors) (Diffsize: 22), fish, heqs, metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), newgrf_makefile, nutracks, smts (Diffsize: 8), snowlinemod, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 12), ttrs (7 errors) (Diffsize: 1324), worldairlinersset 19:20:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2048:0f1a00f22ba4: Feature: snow sprites for Dairy (clos... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0f1a00f22ba4 19:20:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2536 (Closed): Dairy needs snow graphics (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2536#change-6875 19:32:55 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2736 (New): Hungarian Translation (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2736 19:40:19 <Terkhen> andythenorth: nice sprites :) 19:41:49 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2737 (New): Snowy sprite for shop (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2737 21:24:13 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:04:20 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:15:26 <Yexo> action14 conversion from grf to nml is done 22:15:49 <Yexo> next thing is a few changes to firs to it doesn't reuse stringids for different strings and the conversion should be complete 22:16:04 <Yexo> will try to finish it tomorrow (and perhaps also release 0.6.5 tomorrow?) 22:16:16 <Terkhen> wooo great :) 22:16:55 <Terkhen> I'll be around in the morning in case I can help with anything 22:17:07 <Terkhen> as usual andythenorth isn't here, but he wanted to release 0.6.5 as soon as possible 22:17:48 <Yexo> yes, I read you wanted that too, so the conversion of firs trunk can happen as soon as possible 22:17:55 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:18:19 <Yexo> I'll be going away for a little over a month starting july 9th, so I hope to convert firs trunk before that 22:20:42 <Terkhen> hmm... I'll probably be very busy in the first two weeks of july 22:20:55 <Terkhen> my project is due for the 15th :) 22:21:21 <Terkhen> I'l probably be around to help, but not as much as I would like 22:21:50 <Yexo> I just meant the basic conversion (ie working code), making everything nice and templating where possible won't be finished before the 9th (or 15th) 22:22:11 <Yexo> and that is the part where most help will be required 22:23:45 <Terkhen> true, ok :) 22:23:54 <Terkhen> I guess it will take at least a month 22:23:58 <Terkhen> the code is huge 22:25:50 <Yexo> wc -l firs.nml -> 50k lines 22:26:23 <Terkhen> hmm... maybe I'm being a bit optimistic? :P 22:28:12 <Hirundo> I guess a *lot* is due to templated stuff 22:28:33 <Terkhen> yes, FIRS has a lot of templates 22:28:47 <Terkhen> I guess that we should start by taking all templated code and moving it back to templates 22:28:54 <Hirundo> AFAIK, stuff like callback action2s are duplicated N times 22:30:57 <Yexo> indeed 22:31:18 <Yexo> wc -l firs.nfo -> 60k lines :) 22:31:27 <Yexo> that is, already preprocessed, original nfo 22:31:46 <Terkhen> heh, it is actually smaller? :P 22:32:22 <Yexo> preprocessed code has a lot of empty lines 22:32:31 <Yexo> so I guess not really :) 22:34:44 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2738 (New): Proper support of persistent storage (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2738 22:35:46 <Hirundo> It'd be nice, if there was a way to supply debug info / errors from within the varaction2 code 22:38:27 <Hirundo> So users can sort of trace control flow instead of black box trial / error 22:39:37 <Terkhen> hmm... something like a log? identifying each "caller" by its ID and type maybe 22:40:28 <Hirundo> "caller" in what sense? 22:41:00 <Terkhen> Industry(0x04) for example 22:41:08 <Terkhen> caller is not the right term :P 22:43:07 <Hirundo> I was more thinking along the lines of emitting the names and values of each switch block 22:43:49 <Hirundo> Which would require attaching a string to a varaction2 in nfo - not sure if that's feasible 22:44:56 <Terkhen> hmm... using extra information in the newgrf? something akin to a debug build? 22:44:57 <Hirundo> ideally like "switch 'foo': resulting value 312 -> choice 2" appearing in the console