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00:00:05 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 00:17:09 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 74:163b1df1108e: more accurate calculation of TE for prussi... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/163b1df1108e 02:59:12 *** Lakie has quit IRC 05:29:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:26:23 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:33:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:05:25 <Terkhen> oh 08:05:42 <Terkhen> then I won't be able to help with FIRS until I have linux again 08:07:20 <planetmaker> what did you do to your linux system? 08:07:40 <planetmaker> alternatively, Terkhen, you could just convert all pcx to png ;-) 08:07:53 <planetmaker> a task which eventually needs doing anyway (IMHO) 08:08:07 <V453000> or if you want to draw stuff just come help me with http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ur-trains :P 08:08:28 <Ammler> nuts! 08:08:33 <V453000> nuts! 08:08:58 <Terkhen> that sounds even more boring than beautifying nml code :P 08:09:16 <V453000> :D 08:09:17 <Terkhen> V453000: I can't draw, I barely can recolour cargos :P 08:09:17 <V453000> k 08:09:31 <V453000> hmm :p 08:09:53 <Terkhen> I waited for about 4 months for a drawer for ogfx-rv 08:09:58 <planetmaker> :-D I fully understand that, Terkhen :-) - and didn't expect a "sure, I'll have it finished in T-10" ;-) 08:10:28 <V453000> mhm :) 08:11:07 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1693/Wagons_Flatbed02_04_x.png does anyone have some good idea what item should food/goods/sweets look like? I am blank on ideas on those 3 08:11:11 <Terkhen> planetmaker: if you give me a script that does the conversion from console I'll have it ready as soon as windows is able to do it 08:11:30 <Terkhen> :P 08:11:53 <planetmaker> I suspect that irfanview could do it 08:12:59 <planetmaker> V453000: sweets: giant candies or chocolate bars or lollies 08:13:15 <V453000> hmm, chocolate is a nice idea 08:13:34 <V453000> lets see :) 08:13:43 <planetmaker> goods: the "default" containers will do quite nicely. Food the same with a AC unit installed 08:14:00 <V453000> yeah but what is a container ... just a colourful box ... :d 08:14:15 <planetmaker> or in toyland: gift-wrapped parcel. Food: pot of stew 08:14:33 <V453000> but I guess I will keep goods creativity for "more proper" flatbeds :) 08:14:37 <V453000> he :) 08:14:55 <planetmaker> be sure that I'll "steal" your wagons if you're too creative for toyland :-P 08:15:07 *** bodis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:15:10 <V453000> for what? :| 08:15:26 <planetmaker> OpenGFX toyland? 08:15:30 <V453000> btw toy wagons are incompatible with opengfx :P 08:15:49 <V453000> they have the red robots ttd factory produces 08:15:53 <V453000> opengfx has duckies :P 08:17:06 <planetmaker> yes, I got it. You don't appreciate to support the only free graphics set :{ 08:17:25 <V453000> you know why 08:17:42 <planetmaker> I can't imagine any reason why 08:17:44 <V453000> and now when I actually look at it when zoomed out when I am drawing I am getting disgusted more and more 08:17:52 <V453000> the style it is drawn in totally disgusts me 08:17:54 <V453000> no offence 08:18:01 <planetmaker> ach, bugger off 08:18:31 <planetmaker> sounds like a good reason for "I don't like it as is. So it must stay that way and I'll certainly not help make it better" 08:18:35 <planetmaker> good reason. Very good one 08:19:41 <V453000> well since majority is obviously happy with how it is, I do not see a reason why to change it 08:19:53 <planetmaker> thus the attitude "I don't like it but I even hate more to improve it" is what I absolutely do not understand. And which pisses me off, quite frankly 08:20:11 <Ammler> nah, noone is happy with the current state 08:20:17 <Ammler> there is just no alternative for most 08:20:47 <Ammler> and it is not that hard to be better as ttd original 08:21:02 <planetmaker> And what reaction do you expect when you say "I hate it. I definitely won't help to make it better"? 08:21:17 <V453000> I dont expect any other, I fully understand 08:21:48 <planetmaker> But I don't understand your attitude. Why? 08:22:32 <planetmaker> Why not make the difference there where most people will notice? 08:23:20 <V453000> Well quite frankly, the main thing I respect in opengfx is how much work it took, so many sprites. And the authors doing that might in my eyes have done it ugly, but made an extensive effort. I do not feel like making one part different from the rest. At least it is all in one style uniformly. 08:24:27 <planetmaker> One has to start somewhere. And it will never get anywhere with that attitude 08:24:39 <planetmaker> it's like "oh, a long journey. Let's stay at home" 08:25:01 <planetmaker> Honestly, there's a lot which can get better in OpenGFX. 08:25:21 <planetmaker> Most of all I'd like 'better' houses. And lots of industries could get a bit more 'crispy', too 08:25:48 <planetmaker> The different climates may very well have completely different styles. No hurt. Actually it'd be added fun 08:26:42 <planetmaker> Why do you think did I start to borrow sprites from andy for some industries? 08:27:01 <V453000> he :) 08:27:16 <Rubidium> you have to respect andy's freedom to reject that though ;) 08:27:19 <planetmaker> But it's 10000 sprites. And hundrets of objects. And one person doing the coding work mostly 08:27:48 <V453000> Honestly, I just absolutely hate to see 2 newgrfs having the same sprites. Or even base set in this case 08:27:51 <planetmaker> Rubidium: GPL is GPL ;-). And even then, I asked and he's fine with that. 08:28:02 <V453000> Which is probably the hugest real problem I have 08:28:12 <planetmaker> V453000: but having a good base set is more important than yet another newgrf 08:28:40 <V453000> well, yes 08:28:53 <Rubidium> ah, that's why OpenGFX is so bad... it has some of the same sprites as you'd get with the original game 08:29:12 <Rubidium> +graphics 08:29:19 <Rubidium> (and openttd.grf) 08:29:27 <planetmaker> hm? 08:29:52 <Rubidium> what? You don't know some sprites in openttd.grf are exactly the same as in opengfx.grf? 08:30:02 <planetmaker> of course I do know that. 08:30:09 <planetmaker> Mostly GUI 08:30:55 <planetmaker> Not sure about tram tracks 08:31:30 <Rubidium> I think it's mostly (bits of) the font 08:31:36 <planetmaker> :-D 08:31:55 <Rubidium> that OpenTTD has taken over from OpenGFX ;) 08:31:56 <planetmaker> I _do_ remember that, now you mention it 08:32:12 <planetmaker> :-) 08:32:40 <planetmaker> V453000: quite frankly I'd be more than happy, if I had people who'd (also) work on OpenGFX 08:32:53 <planetmaker> It's much too big for one person to achieve there much noticable progress 08:33:50 <V453000> I understand, and if I have some will to draw after I finish this set, then I might help you with drawing some sprites, but I will probably strongly dislike the train set to be transformed into opengfx 08:34:23 <planetmaker> yeah... "after..." :-( 08:34:36 <planetmaker> the way you plan your set it will not be finished before 2013.5 08:35:07 <V453000> unless I get some aid myself :) 08:38:50 * Rubidium still hopes someone 'finishes' opensfx with more free samples 08:38:53 <planetmaker> base set trains are a pain. I'm litterally bored of trying to fix them. Or when I'm not bored, the artists are bored 08:39:07 <V453000> :D 08:39:28 <planetmaker> NewGRF train sets are very easy to make in comparison 08:39:39 <V453000> what is the difference? 08:39:55 <planetmaker> restrictions on sprite and vehicle sizes 08:40:03 <planetmaker> and no newgrf capabilities 08:40:24 <V453000> hmm :o 08:40:45 <planetmaker> you can align the sprites. But that's it 08:41:12 <planetmaker> you can't play with vehicle length, you can't play with livery overrides, you can't play with depot sprite size, with purchase sprites 08:42:11 <planetmaker> and then people come "oh, it's ugly. But I'll rather die than help. Sooo motivating" 08:42:32 <V453000> why are such sizes so important? I use pikkas 8/8 template which seems to be according to ttd vehicles and seems ... quite okay 08:43:09 <planetmaker> yes, you can adjust depot sprite size and you probably have 08:43:35 <planetmaker> And you can adjust for reversed operation. Base sets need to work without having a different alignment for reversed 08:43:54 <planetmaker> As base set vehicles are allowed to flip. All of them 08:44:10 <planetmaker> Thus it's also a pain to differ engines somewhat in size. As that'll look funky for too short ones, too 08:45:35 <V453000> guess I just have too low amount of experience to understand such problems :) 08:47:03 <planetmaker> do not set in your newgrf the 32px depot width. And only use the 8/8 alignment template for the vehicles 08:47:10 <planetmaker> That's basically what you have for base sets 08:48:47 <V453000> I plan to have only anyway 08:48:53 <V453000> I plan to have only anyway 08:48:55 <V453000> omg 08:48:57 <V453000> 8/8 08:49:00 <V453000> numlock broken :-D 08:49:54 <V453000> as I said, shorter vehicles lead to very nice problems with CLs sometimes 08:50:43 <V453000> depot counter says 2.0 and sometimes it works, sometimes not ... enough of a reason to use only 8/8 for me tbh 08:51:02 <V453000> which is also a partial reason why the maglev wagons have 2 in pair to fill an 8/8 08:53:24 <planetmaker> so... why don't you then design (and implement) us nice maglevs for the base set? 08:53:56 <Ammler> you mean the tracks, right? 08:54:46 <planetmaker> I meant actually vehicles. They're somewhat of too small size IIRC. But tracks... yes, maybe 08:55:08 <planetmaker> the wagons should at least become 29px ;-) 08:56:24 <Ammler> hmm, didn't you shorten those? 08:57:17 <planetmaker> yes, no :-) 08:57:46 <planetmaker> base set trains are a pain... Maybe we should get a solution to use 32px in the depot also for base sets... 08:58:14 <planetmaker> might make things considerably easier... 08:58:26 <V453000> honestly when I even try to imagine to replace something of the base set, for example tracks, I get to having no clue what do I want to do because it is not based purely on my imagination 08:58:53 <V453000> which is probably the same thought matter as I have with real trains - openttd. I just cannot find any connection in my mind between it 09:02:05 <planetmaker> Mostly it needs nice graphics. Thus to fit somewhat, engines of one climate need to be considered jointly. As do wagons. Possibly also both together 09:02:18 <planetmaker> And at best all three track types together. 09:02:36 <planetmaker> As there's the ugly fact that they share two wagon designs ;-) 09:04:22 <planetmaker> rubber and one other, I don't quite recall. Source code comments will tell ;-) 09:44:02 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:45:32 <planetmaker> quak :-) 09:45:46 <frosch123> morning planetmaker :) 09:45:55 <frosch123> did you catch my message from last night from the logs? 09:46:28 <planetmaker> yes, but only after I continued a bit editing when I was a bit sleepless around 5am 09:46:37 <frosch123> lol 09:46:38 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/User:Planetmaker <-- what do you think? 09:46:39 <Webster> Title: User:Planetmaker - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 09:47:08 <planetmaker> the main problem prevails, though: templates can have a line break between image an text 09:47:12 <frosch123> imo it looks a lot better with a space between the icons 09:47:24 <planetmaker> yes 09:47:33 <frosch123> planetmaker: i would expect that can be solved with some attribute at the span 09:47:57 <planetmaker> I guess one ottdp template will suffice, eh? 09:48:03 <planetmaker> what should the defaults be? 09:48:13 <planetmaker> I actually toy with the idea to have ttdp = no be the default 09:48:27 <frosch123> planetmaker: i would not remove the existing templates, but add a third one combining them 09:48:35 <planetmaker> yes, of course 09:48:41 <frosch123> default is no support for either of them 09:48:41 <planetmaker> no need to remove them 09:49:15 <planetmaker> well, my train of thought was: when later a new setting / property / var is added: default will always be ottd: yes, ttdp=no 09:49:52 <planetmaker> I'm only talking about the ottdp template now :-) 09:50:04 <frosch123> well, if the template looks like {{ottdp|ottd=1.2}} it would make the default of ttdp to "no" 09:50:32 <planetmaker> and the other thing I'd like to change is that "no version given" doesn't display the ?? but just nothing 09:50:33 <frosch123> if it is {{ottdp|ottd=1.2|ttdp=}} it would make it ttdp support with unknown version 09:50:51 <planetmaker> yes, so? 09:51:12 <planetmaker> {{ottdp|1.2|}} would - as now lead to 1.2 / no 09:51:26 <planetmaker> hm... actually no. that'd lead to unknown TTDP version 09:51:36 <planetmaker> while {{ottdp|1.2}} would lead to ttdp = no 09:51:46 <frosch123> imo use named parematers 09:51:58 <frosch123> tthen you can distinguish empty and unassigned ones 09:51:58 <planetmaker> well, see my user page I just linked 09:52:38 <planetmaker> for unassigned we still have the single templates 09:52:43 <frosch123> oh, now i understand. you want to use ottd/ttdp templates if the other one does not support it 09:52:47 <planetmaker> at least unassigned for ottd 09:52:54 <Ammler> you think, you need versioned ttdp icons? 09:53:04 <planetmaker> Ammler: we do have 09:53:07 <frosch123> Ammler: more than for ottd 09:53:51 <planetmaker> frosch123: the idea is that new entries only need ottdp. Which will define the ottd entry and set ttdp to 'not implemented' 09:54:11 <Ammler> the spec is for authors, I don't think a author would make a newgrf and care for acient patch 09:54:18 <planetmaker> this obviously is not much helpful for adding them now. But in all future 09:54:42 <Ammler> it even is already much efort to support patch nightly 09:54:49 <planetmaker> as I don't expect any additions which will be ttdp only. And even then ottd support will be known 09:55:08 <frosch123> Ammler: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Ottd we also state ottd support for 0.6 09:55:09 <Webster> Title: Template:Ottd - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 09:55:18 <frosch123> just not earlier as that is hard to say 09:55:21 <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #2870: General ideas (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2870#change-7123 09:55:26 <frosch123> 0.5 is too broken :p 09:55:29 <Ammler> frosch123: yep, quite useless 09:55:44 <frosch123> no 09:55:45 <Ammler> you could start with 1.0 09:56:23 <frosch123> Ammler: if you do not care about history, why do you use a vcs? 09:56:29 <planetmaker> frosch123: unless you really strongly object, I'll start to use the ottdp template in further pages. And I'd like to use it as in the last line of that template, with the explicit version shown right there (if applicable) 09:56:49 <planetmaker> and the ?? for undefined version imho are confusing 09:56:58 <frosch123> planetmaker: making ottdp default to ottd yes, and ttdp no is inconsitent 09:56:59 <planetmaker> I'll add the spaces, they're lovely, now is ugly 09:57:18 <Ammler> frosch123: well, the info is already there, it would just be quite stupid to invest time for it 09:57:36 <planetmaker> ok, question is what outwheighs which. But ok, then it's all default = no 09:57:39 <frosch123> Ammler: you have to invest time anyway, else the info will be just wrong 09:58:01 <Ammler> it would make sense to mark features as depreciated though 09:58:35 <Ammler> but features which are supported with current stable don't matter, since when that is 09:58:49 <frosch123> i disagree on that 09:58:58 <Ammler> reason? 09:59:21 <Rubidium> I think that specs wise it's not very useful to go back more than 2 releases in the 'general' view, i.e. saying it's 1.0- should be okay. As long as clicking on it, or hovering over it gives more detailed information 10:00:12 <frosch123> yeah, revision numbers could go into the alternate image text 10:00:34 <Rubidium> *or* ... even fancier... you select the version you want to make the NewGRF support. Then it'll only show you the things that are supported by that version 10:01:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: anyway, i would prefer named arguments for the ottdp template 10:01:38 <frosch123> so you can optionally specify revision numbers, which are shown differently, and not in a huge blue/orange blob 10:02:10 <frosch123> if you want defaults for ttdp/ottd support add a ttdponly and ottdonly template 10:02:36 <frosch123> like {{ottdonly|version|optional revision}} 10:02:38 <planetmaker> but that would make adding them much longer... adding separate named arguments for the revisions is IMHO a good idea. But not for the versions itself 10:04:23 <planetmaker> {{ottdp|ottdversion|ttdpversion|ottdrev=XXX|ttdprev=YYY}} 10:05:33 <frosch123> so you would write {{ottdp|no|2.0}} for something ttdp only? 10:06:26 <planetmaker> yes 10:07:48 <frosch123> i guess that would as well 10:08:40 <frosch123> added nowrap to ottd/ttdp templates 10:08:48 <planetmaker> ah, that works? 10:09:04 <Ammler> you don't handle depreciated, or are there none? 10:11:06 <planetmaker> cool :-) 10:11:20 <planetmaker> Ammler: hardly 10:11:30 <frosch123> Ammler: not at this stage 10:11:31 <planetmaker> I don't know any 10:11:46 <frosch123> as that is subjective in some way 10:13:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, why don't you use the ottd/ttdp templates inside the ttdp template? 10:13:29 <planetmaker> no good reason 10:13:37 <frosch123> i'll change 10:13:40 <planetmaker> ok 10:14:11 <planetmaker> the best reason I have is "I was toying with templates and didn't want to destroy perfectly working templates" 10:19:31 <planetmaker> looks soo much easier now, frosch123 :-) 10:20:05 <frosch123> i guess next step is adding the rev attribute to ottd/ttdp templates, and put that in the alternative image text, if supplied 10:20:51 <frosch123> but some other channel makes we want to read the forums first :p 10:21:13 <planetmaker> :-D 10:42:59 <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #2870: General ideas (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2870#change-7124 10:43:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: ttdp 2.0.1 alpha means 2.5 10:43:38 <planetmaker> then I did it consistently wrong 10:44:00 <planetmaker> and 2.5 beta 9 is 2.6? 10:44:06 <frosch123> no :p 10:44:11 <planetmaker> tsk 10:45:39 <frosch123> yeah, this 2.0.1 version scheme is quite stupid 10:51:16 <planetmaker> I guess I'm off to some fixing 10:52:07 <frosch123> maybe wait for the new template with the detailed version in the hint? 11:00:38 <Ammler> you see, you invest already too much time in useless things :-P 11:01:06 <planetmaker> probably a good idea. Are you working on it? 11:01:12 <frosch123> yes 11:01:16 <planetmaker> ok :-) 11:01:43 <frosch123> just wondering whether there is way to specify a hoover text for the whole span instead of the image only 11:02:01 <frosch123> Ammler: one advantage of explicit version number is, that you actually think about what you write 11:02:22 <frosch123> i already found wrong footnotes 11:03:02 <frosch123> where someone added ttdp/ottd support later to the footnote, while they actually did not support everything the footnote referred to 11:03:53 <planetmaker> lalala, was that me? 11:03:55 <Ammler> frosch123: I just meant, you don't need to distinguish the versions 11:04:13 <Ammler> it is fine enough to just tell ttdp or ottd stable/trunk support 11:04:15 <planetmaker> Ammler: but it makes sense. NewGRF authors are interested in it. And it's specs. 11:04:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: no, but the the mentioning of the version in every line, instead of some obscure footnote, made it obvious 11:04:25 <planetmaker> i.e. for debugging stuff 11:04:32 <Ammler> planetmaker: they are interested if a grf needs trunk 11:05:10 <planetmaker> Ammler: or 'latest' stable. Or 1.0 as it allows newgrf changes. or 0.7 as it has still the 'good ol' AI' or similar 11:05:36 <Ammler> well, if you think so :-) 11:18:44 <planetmaker> do we want in tables actually rather var-version-size-description or var-size-version-description? 11:19:00 * planetmaker somewhat prefers the latter 11:22:30 <planetmaker> frosch123: Terkhen, michi_cc, Rubidium ^ any preference? 11:23:37 <Terkhen> for the wiki? 11:24:03 <planetmaker> yup, newgrf wiki 11:25:31 <Terkhen> IMO revision for things that still are not in a stable version, and 0.7, 1.0 and so on for the rest 11:26:40 <frosch123> planetmaker: i also prefer var-size-version-desc 11:26:49 <michi_cc> planetmaker: I don't write newgrfs, so I don't really care :) 11:26:55 <frosch123> though it also makes sense to put the version into the desc 11:27:00 <planetmaker> ok. Means re-arranging some (most) tables, but well 11:27:15 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables <- i.e. i like the formatting in var 02/82 11:27:16 <planetmaker> hm, yes. In the beginning there... 11:27:16 <Webster> Title: GlobalVariables - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 11:27:42 <planetmaker> I'm fine with that. Do you prefer that? 11:27:54 <planetmaker> might save a bit space 11:28:07 <frosch123> i am not sure whether it looks nice in all cases :) 11:28:14 <planetmaker> but would maybe make it harder to filter out, if / when tables support it 11:28:40 <frosch123> yeah, so go for var-size-version-desc :) 11:29:02 <planetmaker> ok 11:30:35 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Ottdp <- how about that? 11:30:36 <Webster> Title: Template:Ottdp - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 11:33:22 <michi_cc> Is it just my browser or are the icons on http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Towns looking strange for anybody else? 11:33:23 <Webster> Title: VariationalAction2/Towns - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 11:34:33 <frosch123> michi_cc: if there is no parameter given, the default somehow seems to draw a ' instead of nothing 11:34:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:35:20 <frosch123> resp, the default actually draws something, but " " results in ' 11:36:02 <michi_cc> Opera seems to have some other problem: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/wiki.png 11:36:25 <michi_cc> The TTDP icon is somehow wrong. It's only the empty param case though, everything else looks alright. 11:37:55 <frosch123> yeah, the empty param looks weird, but it shall not be used anyway :) 11:38:13 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:38:14 <frosch123> at least i would not know a usecase for it 11:49:43 * planetmaker uses/used it for the case of 'no version information' 11:53:47 <planetmaker> frosch123: but the revisions are nowhere shown currently, right? 11:55:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: in the hoover text 11:55:29 <frosch123> at least for me 11:55:36 <frosch123> (only on the text, not on the image) 11:55:43 <frosch123> though we could also show them in both 11:55:43 <andythenorth> does hoover text go around cleaning up? 11:56:20 <planetmaker> also for me. Thanks for the tip 11:57:07 <planetmaker> hover text is fine enough for me, keeps it tidy albeit still accessible 11:57:40 <planetmaker> but... yes, if shown over the icon, too would be nice 11:59:36 <frosch123> where did you get that alpha 45 from? afaik nothing of the bridge stuff is implemented at all 12:01:13 <planetmaker> uhm... I would say from the docs. /me checks 12:01:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:02:00 <planetmaker> frosch123: it says as note (a): alpha 45 12:02:18 <planetmaker> oh, bridge... I was at industries 12:03:34 <planetmaker> but there's no alpha 45 in bridges? Or which where when? 12:04:04 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 75:a4ad6ae3db6a: use more accurate TE calculation also for ... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/a4ad6ae3db6a 12:04:52 <frosch123> what? 12:06:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:10:02 <planetmaker> 13:59 frosch123: where did you get that alpha 45 from? afaik nothing of the bridge stuff is implemented at all <-- that 12:16:31 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=VariationalAction2%2FBridges&diff=2008&oldid=1788 <- that alpha45 12:16:32 <Webster> Title: VariationalAction2/Bridges - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 12:16:59 <frosch123> i would have put "neither ottd nor ttdp support" there 12:19:51 <planetmaker> you're right, I must have pulled the version out of thin air :-O 12:20:07 <planetmaker> Is none of that implemented? 12:20:28 <planetmaker> why is that crap then there at all? 12:20:40 <planetmaker> hmpf... 12:22:58 <planetmaker> and why do the industry variables have no size? :S 12:24:24 <Ammler> you need a kind of "draft" template 12:24:36 <frosch123> planetmaker: because they are a modern implementation 12:24:49 <frosch123> it does not just fetch some data from some ttd memory location 12:25:04 <planetmaker> oh? 12:25:34 <frosch123> planetmaker: most of the 00-3f variables just refer to some ttd memory location 12:25:56 <frosch123> so if the variable in ttd is not a dword, it will just read the memory of whatever variable is stored after that 12:26:02 <frosch123> same holds for 80+ variables 12:26:12 <planetmaker> yes, I didn't assume that these were special 12:26:30 <frosch123> 40+ variables otoh are also in ttdp just a switchcase, which do custom stuff 12:26:52 <planetmaker> well, I'll leave it blank for now 12:27:53 <frosch123> oh, you mean even the 80+ variables do not specify a size of industries :) well, that needs filling in then 12:31:42 <frosch123> added them 12:33:17 * frosch123 needs to do some shopping 12:33:20 <frosch123> bbl 12:38:53 <planetmaker> enjoy 12:56:09 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 661:f1a6df4ca13d: Change: graphics for medium utility vessel 2 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/f1a6df4ca13d 13:23:18 *** JVassie has quit IRC 13:25:03 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:29:18 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 662:77c80a33e180: Feature: Josephine Utility Vessel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/77c80a33e180 13:36:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:41:46 <planetmaker> when looking through these version infos like I did today... only then it really becomes apparent *how* dead TTDPatch really is 13:42:12 <planetmaker> it's really just on life support 13:42:53 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action5 <-- nice illustration really 13:42:54 <Webster> Title: Action5 - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 14:10:51 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 76:8c914e041773: fix BR 10 (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/8c914e041773 14:17:11 <Terkhen> nice icons :P 14:17:32 <Terkhen> it would look better if all of them had the same width IMO 14:20:32 <planetmaker> yes, it would 14:20:45 <planetmaker> but those aren't really icons ;-) 14:20:53 <planetmaker> it's an icon with a coloured text box 14:21:07 <planetmaker> and the text box width varies 14:23:36 <Ammler> the updates for versioned devzone settings did indeed break testing building 14:24:51 <Terkhen> oh, ok :P 14:25:55 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from to r22682 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22682 14:32:24 *** JVassie has quit IRC 14:32:57 <Ammler> but wqrking again ^ 14:37:02 <frosch123> michi_cc: please do not mix "nfo version" and "grf version" 14:37:35 <frosch123> "nfo version" is a grfcodec/nforenum only thing which works around grfcodec bugs and activates escape sequences 14:38:03 <frosch123> unluckily both are at 7 currently 14:38:25 <michi_cc> Okay, so change it to GRFv6 etc then? 14:38:41 <frosch123> yeah, do you have the rights to move pages? 14:38:49 <michi_cc> I have 14:38:55 <planetmaker> my bad. I started it 14:39:27 <frosch123> the idea is fine :) 14:40:54 <michi_cc> I can't delete http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Template:Nfo&redirect=no though. 14:40:56 <Webster> Title: Template:Nfo - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 14:41:20 <frosch123> http://de.selfhtml.org/html/attribute/allgemeine.htm <- it starts to look like those html, xhtml, ie, ns tags :p 14:41:21 <Webster> Title: SELFHTML: HTML/XHTML / Universalattribute / Allgemeine Universalattribute (at de.selfhtml.org) 14:41:40 <planetmaker> done 14:46:46 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 77:26f54b7e8368: 'short name' should be unique within one c... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/26f54b7e8368 15:34:40 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I refuse to believe that OpenTTD doesn't support actiton var A1 15:36:24 <planetmaker> sorry, I edited today probably literally every 2nd newgrf page... which one? 15:39:30 <Rubidium> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables 15:39:31 <Webster> Title: GlobalVariables - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 15:42:36 <planetmaker> loool :-) 15:43:09 <Rubidium> oh, I forgot the 7 in the statement about the action 15:47:53 <frosch123> looks like my fault though :p 16:19:49 *** ODM has quit IRC 16:22:52 <frosch123> http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Secondary_Related_Objects <- new crap 16:28:45 <planetmaker> :-) "Da haben wir den 'quak'" 16:28:53 <planetmaker> Sorry for the bad pun ;-) It was intended 16:29:05 <frosch123> you are welcome :) 16:33:30 <planetmaker> hm, looks quite interesting 16:37:20 <frosch123> just a summary of what has been discussed in the past 16:41:15 <Terkhen> it's interesting yes :P 16:43:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:52:33 <planetmaker> one of the most urgent places for that approach is airports. Without a decision on how to design that there they'll remain a pain ;-) 16:53:26 <planetmaker> frosch123: looking at some entries in the NewGRF wiki you could just spec it and write a sentence à la "to be implemented" next to it ;-) 16:53:45 <planetmaker> - and then have it rot for two years or so ;-) 16:56:56 *** orudge has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:02:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:04:00 <frosch123> no, that would cause dalestan appearing in my nightmares and yelling at me 17:06:01 <planetmaker> he :-) 17:06:23 <planetmaker> Ok, we grant you exeption from this kind of procedure 17:14:28 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 78:365063c4f7b1: move template graphics to gfx/ directory. ... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/365063c4f7b1 17:14:28 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 79:f75b94fbbc2d: ignore empty ID# entries (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/f75b94fbbc2d 17:14:28 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 80:7ac4654a6c66: use template graphics in vehicles (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/7ac4654a6c66 17:14:29 <frosch123> newgrfs nightmares are already bad enough. e.g. imagine you have to code an articulated vehicle using grfmaker :p 17:14:29 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 81:3eb3f3efacfb: add red pixel to 16lu template, to have so... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/3eb3f3efacfb 17:14:33 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 82:1758dff0601f: use correct template length for dummy vehi... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/1758dff0601f 17:14:37 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 83:8ac52cfc5fde: adjust sprite sizes and offsets to new tem... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/8ac52cfc5fde 17:14:41 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 84:11597d19a489: the shortened template graphics were reversed (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/11597d19a489 17:20:41 <Brot6> firs: update from r2181 to r2183 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2183 17:23:22 <Brot6> cets: update from r68 to r84 done (482 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/nightlies/r84 17:23:57 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 85:a74f97a66cad: sprite mixup in the movement scheme (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/a74f97a66cad 17:24:49 <Brot6> fish: update from r658 to r662 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/nightlies/r662 17:25:18 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r245), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r121), sub-landscape (r72), opengfx (r681), ailib-tile (r16), transrapidtrackset (r15), 2cctrainset (r750), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r605), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r202), nml (r1527), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), 17:25:18 <Brot6> ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r84), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-landscape (r70), ttrs (r36), source-test (r2), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r203), grfcodec (r832), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), 17:25:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:25:20 <Brot6> ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71) 17:26:04 <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/narvs/nightlies/ERROR/r37 17:26:43 <Brot6> ogfx-industries: compile of r121 still failed (#2792) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-industries/nightlies/ERROR/r121 17:28:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:07:22 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:18:57 <Rubidium> Ammler: those .mq repositories are generated from scratch each time, right? So, does the 'identity' of the tip change as well? 18:21:46 <Ammler> yes, but you use findversion 18:21:58 <Ammler> and that uses the tag which doesn't change 18:22:18 <Ammler> on 32bpp we use a patch 18:23:07 <Rubidium> I rather prevent requesting the whole repository each time if I can do that easily 18:23:28 <Rubidium> but it seems I can't 18:23:29 <Ammler> well, just pull? 18:23:48 <Ammler> or what you mean? 18:24:05 <Ammler> we can also change the way the repo is made here 18:24:28 <Rubidium> buildbot has the nasty side-effect that it doesn't support 'listening' to multiple repositories, so I need to use trickery; i.e. push data to the CF 18:24:44 <Rubidium> or rather, push a request when it ought to be built 18:25:50 <Ammler> for testing, we need newer openttd changesets 18:26:04 <Ammler> but we could use different repos for openttd CF and testing 18:26:31 <Rubidium> but I'm getting another (better?) idea though, that doesn't need much downloading of sources 18:26:44 <Rubidium> but still uses findversion.sh 18:26:58 <Ammler> we could create a source bundle, btw. 18:28:06 <Rubidium> nah, that won't work for other places we fetch stuff from 18:42:24 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:01:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:05:29 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22317 to r22683 done (6 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r22683 19:09:59 <Rubidium> warnings? It's requiring some manual fixing before it even works right ;) 19:10:16 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22682 to r22683 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22683 19:15:05 <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22255 to r22683 done (10 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/r22683 19:17:24 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22683 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r22683 19:22:00 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars-demo: update from r22682 to r22683 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars-demo/testing/r22683 19:29:17 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:29:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:33:51 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3335 19:33:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:37:13 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2784: graphics template (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2784#change-7125 19:37:33 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:40:53 *** Guest3335 has quit IRC 20:51:42 *** JVassie has quit IRC 21:02:54 <Brot6> FISH - Feature #2646 (Closed): Graphics for 52t utility vessel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2646#change-7126 21:04:44 <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2691 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2691#change-7129 21:11:49 <Brot6> FISH - Feature #2886 (New): Set stats on Freshney freighter (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2886 21:12:55 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 663:9496afe3df6d: Change: improve graphics for Josephine Utility Vesel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/9496afe3df6d 21:13:54 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 664:cc5da2d5ade4: Change: remove Cahaba Towboat (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/cc5da2d5ade4 21:13:54 <Brot6> FISH - Feature #2887 (New): Adjust menu order? (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2887 21:25:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:38:36 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:05:26 *** Lakie has quit IRC 22:05:29 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:26:15 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 86:87feaf944b2f: same sprite mixup, but in currently unused... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/87feaf944b2f 23:10:57 *** bodis has quit IRC