Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st August 2011:
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01:06:27  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 114:2f7453604ef9: apply some prices (Eddi) @
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11:13:12  <Brot6> MailAI - Revision 12:ea2817ca0de1: ADDED Two settings for articulated trucks and max trucks per r... (Hephi) @
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15:18:12  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 122:6e8352502e55: - Add a function to check a land could be build that chec... (krinn) @
15:59:20  <FooBar> Ammler: what was this URL again to get a prebuilt NML in fedora?
16:33:06  <planetmaker> FooBar, the easiest solution is to get the NML repository; it also makes sure you can easily obtain the latest version
16:33:35  <FooBar> I used to do that, but some disagree :P
16:33:46  <planetmaker> ?
16:34:03  <FooBar> Yes, Ammler says it's better to get it prebuilt
16:34:19  <Ammler> FooBar: I recommended the package to fullfill the dependencies
16:34:33  <FooBar> oh, the dependencies?
16:34:38  <FooBar> not NML itself?
16:34:43  <Ammler> hmm?
16:34:54  <FooBar> I might have misunderstood you previously
16:35:03  <Ammler> well, you get nml too, but the release is quiete fast outdated
16:35:35  <Ammler> anyway, it is here:
16:36:03  <FooBar> Ah, well, then I know enough I think. Yes, dependencies via the package manager. And then the NML nightly manually when I need an upgrade
16:36:54  <Ammler> e.g. you do not install ply and pil like the readme tells
16:37:35  <Ammler> it is quite bad, if you install software from upstream, you should always first check for binary packages
16:37:46  <Ammler> from your distro
16:38:00  <Ammler> except you know better, of course :-)
16:39:57  <Ammler> also you should know, it is risky to use features, which are not released :-)
16:44:04  <FooBar> I'll add that to the guide then
16:44:19  <Ammler> add what?
16:44:34  <FooBar> I didn't feel like doing anything useful today, so I started to write a complete guide on how to set everything up on Windows
16:44:54  <Ammler> there is no packages for windows, except the one from upstream
16:44:55  <FooBar> add to get ply/pil from the package manager and build NML yourself
16:45:09  <Ammler> on windows, I would use setuptools
16:45:17  <Ammler> pip or easy_update
16:45:24  <FooBar> with a virtual linux inbetween I mean
16:45:26  <FooBar> :)
16:45:42  <Ammler> ah ok
16:45:52  <Ammler> ply is python-ply and pil is python-imaging
16:46:04  <Ammler> (on suse and fedora)
16:46:08  <FooBar> It's called "Guide to setting up a #openttdcoop DevZone development environment on Windows using a virtual Linux installation for NewGRF development in either NML or NFO" :P
16:46:21  <FooBar> couldn't think of a longer title, but suggestions are welcome
16:47:19  <Ammler> with suse, we can create livecd with the software you need
16:47:34  <Ammler> or vmdisk
16:48:30  <Ammler>
16:48:31  <Webster> Title: Welcome SUSE Studio (at
16:48:54  <FooBar> now hang on a minute, yesterday you suggested not to give somebody a completely setup environment. Now I'm writing down how one can do that themselves and now you're suggesting to hand out live-cds... :P
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16:51:49  <Ammler> well, that is different
16:51:58  <FooBar> how's that?
16:52:01  <Ammler> you wanted to upload your own vm
16:52:35  <FooBar> yes, but that essentially the same as installing such a live cd
16:52:40  <Ammler> I just said, in that time someone has setup its own linux
16:52:50  <FooBar> e.g. the result would be the same
16:54:06  <Ammler> yes, I do not recommend to use livedisk
16:54:22  <Ammler> I just told you that suse can do that
16:55:22  <FooBar> ah, it sounded to me that we should make such a thing. My bad
16:56:01  <FooBar> anyways, I think with this guide every windows users should be able to set up everything without help
16:56:35  <FooBar> should be useful to some emerging projects
16:56:37  <Ammler> well, it is nice you do
16:57:17  <FooBar> thanks
16:57:35  <FooBar> but I better go make dinner now, starting to get quite hungry :)
17:05:39  <Ammler> I guess, it is easier to teach people using linux as to teach them using windows right
17:06:18  * andythenorth has never used a desktop linux
17:06:21  <andythenorth> I've seen them used
17:18:42  <Ammler> well, you use a almost linux
17:19:09  <planetmaker> it's a BSD derivative ;-)
17:20:10  <Brot6> firs: update from r2232 to r2233 done (37 warnings) -
17:22:44  <planetmaker> <-- or according to that from NextStep, FreeBSD 3 and Net BSD 1.3
17:23:02  <Brot6> cets: update from r113 to r114 done (436 warnings) -
17:24:03  <Brot6> heqs: update from r605 to r607 done -
17:25:50  <Brot6> fish: update from r681 to r683 done -
17:26:17  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r245), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), sub-landscape (r72), opengfx (r681), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r202), nml (r1564), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305),
17:26:17  <Brot6> ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r85), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-landscape (r71), ttrs (r36), source-test (r2), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r203), grfcodec (r832), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41),
17:26:19  <Brot6> ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71)
17:27:00  <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) -
17:27:44  <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r72 still failed (#2892) -
17:29:48  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: source-test (6 warnings)
17:30:36  <Ammler> hmm, what is source-test?
17:30:56  <planetmaker> no idea?
17:31:18  <Ammler> ah
17:31:52  <Ammler> the test for you
17:32:01  <Ammler> is that still open?
17:32:49  <planetmaker> hm, what test was that? Please remind me :-) But I bet: still open
17:33:47  <Ammler> yes you win, #2842
17:33:48  <Brot6> Ammler: #2842 is "Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2842: Filenames with ( or ' - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
17:35:06  <planetmaker> ah, ok. Please keep it :-)
17:43:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2918 (New): OpenTTD target version(s) (planetmaker) @
17:48:16  <Terkhen> planetmaker: is it safe to commit now? :P
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18:36:24  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2919 (New): Livery/color standards (oberhuemer) @
19:05:33  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22707 to r22708 done (6 warnings) -
19:10:32  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22707 to r22708 done -
19:15:28  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22707 to r22708 done (10 warnings) -
19:17:21  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22708 still failed (#2446) -
19:28:02  <V453000> evening :)
19:29:23  <V453000> FooBar: any luck with the upload? :)
19:44:30  <FooBar> and an evening to you too!
19:44:47  <FooBar> V453000: yes, I have it uploaded, but I might have something better for you
19:46:03  <FooBar> Well, from an educational perspective it's better, because if you set everything up yourself you at least know what you're doing
19:46:25  <FooBar> What that "better" is, is a "Guide to setting up a #openttdcoop DevZone development environment on Windows using a virtual Linux installation for NewGRF development in either NML or NFO aimed at users who have never touched Linux or a version control system before"
19:47:04  <FooBar> It's not completely done yet, but it has all stuff you need for now; I'll make a pdf
19:47:47  <Terkhen> why not msys?
19:48:25  <Terkhen> compilation times are smaller in virtual machines, but they are more complicated to set up
19:49:27  <FooBar> for that very reason
19:49:37  <Terkhen> ok :P
19:49:52  <FooBar> Compiling FIRS took about 5 minutes on msys last time I tried
19:50:02  <V453000> Terkhen: assume that I am an ABSOLUTE BFU and when you elt me set up whatever, probability of fail is 120%
19:50:14  <V453000> FooBar: what should I do? :)
19:51:38  <planetmaker> 5 minutes is long :-)
19:52:23  <FooBar> V453000: have a look at this:
19:52:25  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - NewGRF_development_guide_for_Windows_users_0.9.0.pdf (foobar) @
19:52:42  <FooBar> heh, I outran brot. Just...
19:52:55  <planetmaker> 5 minutes is about my openttd compile time ;-)
19:53:16  <V453000> FooBar: :O
19:53:27  <V453000> very nice
19:53:34  <FooBar> You can start with the chapter "Installing Fedora inside VirtualBox"
19:53:41  <V453000> right :)
19:53:53  <FooBar> you've already installed tortoise and virtualbox yesterday.
19:54:21  <V453000> yey for that :)
19:54:34  <Ammler> FooBar: extension mercurial_keyring might also be worth a try, if people do not like to save password in plain form
19:54:54  <FooBar> Plan B is the pre-setup environment, which you can find here:
19:54:55  <Webster> Title: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (at
19:55:12  <FooBar> I'm giving you the link now as I kind of promised that yesterday. So it's up to you what you want to do.
19:55:47  <FooBar> You should unpack that in C:\Users\USERNAME\VirtualBox VMs
19:56:16  <V453000> :) thank you so much for your effort and help I will see what I can do
19:56:49  <FooBar> Ammler: I'll have a look at that, might be interesting as I don't feel very comfortable about saving passwords in plain sight
19:57:32  <FooBar> V453000: you're welcome! Good luck and just let me know if you get stuck
19:57:40  <Ammler> also FooBar, does nml rpm from our server work on your vm?
19:57:52  <FooBar> yes, it does. I just tested it
19:58:41  <FooBar> Therefore I chose that approach instead
19:58:46  <Ammler> I could build fedora rpms too, if needed
19:59:01  <FooBar> Well, you don't really have to, as this works just fine
19:59:07  <Ammler> ok :-)
19:59:25  <Ammler> the rpms on bundles are mainly meant for the build server itself
20:00:23  <FooBar> It works here too, so I don't see harm in using them :)
20:01:10  <FooBar> Also easier for the manual; now I don't have to explain to also get the NML repo etc.
20:01:42  <V453000> It might just take me some time :) I am moving currently so doing so much stuff all around, sometimes I find some time in the evening to draw stuff but nothing for longer time :) in 1 week I should be under normal conditions again :)
20:02:30  <Ammler> FooBar: imo, you could also do the mercurial part on linux :-)
20:03:12  <FooBar> V453000: take all the time you want. There's no obligation to do anything here. Unless you promise something. Promises are not to be broken :P
20:03:22  <Ammler> anyway, nice guide
20:04:52  <V453000> :P
20:04:55  <FooBar> Ammler: yes, you could do that. But it works nicely on Windows, with the nice GUI and the overlay icons. I'm pretty happy with how the two interact this way.
20:05:45  <Ammler> ok
20:05:50  <FooBar> Oh, and thanks! I'll post the guide in the documents section (including source) when it's 1.0. I still want to add something about using tortoisehg
20:06:17  <Ammler> V453000: you should install linux yourself, it is worth :-)
20:07:01  <FooBar> yes, I think so too. Might very well save the day if Windows refuses to start and you still need to backup your files :P
20:07:01  <Ammler> you just need to think much simpler
20:07:39  <V453000> hehe :)
20:08:07  <V453000> I'll probably see, it's good experience anyway probably
20:08:13  <FooBar> joking, Linux is worth much more than that (although for me it's still hasn't surpassed Windows), but I have used it once for that purpose
20:09:24  <Ammler> FooBar: I am suprised, Fedora does not provide vbox
20:09:29  <andythenorth> Ammler should get an award for services to linux evangelism
20:09:46  * andythenorth bought a new mac today
20:09:51  <andythenorth> not linux :P
20:09:53  <FooBar> Ammler: how do you mean "provide vbox"
20:10:09  <Ammler> andythenorth: it is possible to install linux on mac too, afaik
20:10:24  <Ammler> FooBar: yum install vbox-guest-addition
20:10:39  <FooBar> Oh, I actually haven't looked for that...
20:10:42  <FooBar> let's see...
20:10:46  <Ammler> that way, you would not need to install the whole kernel devel pacakges
20:11:12  <andythenorth> Ammler: I have red hat installed I think
20:11:25  <Ammler> :-)
20:11:26  <andythenorth> oh no - I deleted it
20:11:31  <Ammler> :'-(
20:12:26  <andythenorth> it takes about 1 min to install
20:12:38  <andythenorth> I didn't use it though so I canned it
20:12:40  <FooBar> no, yum doesn't seem to have the guest additions
20:13:04  <Ammler> FooBar: on suse, the package is called virtualbox-guest-tools
20:13:15  <FooBar> let me check once more
20:13:41  <Ammler> and virtualbox-guest-kmp-<kernelfavor>
20:14:05  <Ammler> does it have virtualbox at all?
20:14:06  <FooBar> nope, nothing by the name virtualbox either
20:14:12  <Ammler> ok
20:14:46  <Ammler> maybe there is a kind of 3rd-party repo
20:14:53  <Ammler> hmm
20:15:27  <FooBar> well, building it is not too problematic. The only annoyance was that the kernel-devel in the package manager was newer than the one the guest additions requested
20:15:49  <Ammler> the issue is that you will need to build again, if you update
20:15:54  <Ammler> or upgrade,
20:16:21  <FooBar> Heh, you don't expect me to upgrade this as long as it works, do you? :D
20:16:28  <Ammler> :-)
20:16:36  <Ammler> yum update
20:16:40  <FooBar> only thing I'll be upgrading is nml
20:16:53  <Ammler> update is easy
20:17:14  <Ammler> but not really needed in your case, indeed
20:17:25  <FooBar> well yes, it actually ask to update. But I don't feel like waiting for that
20:20:15  <FooBar> well, I'll better continue the guide before I loose interest
20:23:18  <Ammler> not finished?
20:24:23  <V453000> stupid question but if I try to install fedora just like normal OS, I do not need the virtual box eh :) assuming that my computer wont explode in the process
20:24:24  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 608:6e40d760c656: Change: refactor a directory name (andythenorth) @
20:24:55  <andythenorth> V453000: you'll lose a lot of stuff temporarily :P
20:24:57  <andythenorth> like irc
20:24:58  <andythenorth> and web
20:25:03  <andythenorth> until you find the new apps for them
20:25:05  <andythenorth> :D
20:25:12  <V453000> well sure :)
20:25:16  <andythenorth> but it shouldn't explode
20:25:21  <andythenorth> you have backups right?
20:25:27  <V453000> sure thing :)
20:29:55  <FooBar> at least make sure to backup your personal files!
20:34:01  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 609:f9eeb518a96c: Change: work in progress on Forklift (andythenorth) @
20:53:52  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 610:11a4da270823: Change: work in progress on graphics fo... (andythenorth) @
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21:50:03  <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #2912: THE SLUG TRAIN (V453000) @
21:50:37  <V453000> ^_^
21:59:00  <FooBar> hey, you got it to work! Well done :)
22:00:09  <V453000> what? :D
22:01:22  <V453000> what do you mean, I just drew a few sprites, I did not touch the fedora
22:04:43  <Ammler> FooBar: just a ticket, not a commit
22:05:37  <V453000> ooh :)
22:20:07  <FooBar> oh, misread :(
22:20:34  <FooBar> well, you got that to work :P
22:21:04  <V453000> :D at least something, right :)
22:21:10  <V453000> I Just finished downloading
22:22:19  <FooBar> reboot
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22:24:45  <V453000> gnight :)
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