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00:05:40 *** FooBar has quit IRC 00:56:53 *** Zuu has quit IRC 04:10:30 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 04:11:14 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:04:19 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Document: PaintshopPro Palette files (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/27 06:04:19 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-newgrf-psp7-dos.pal.zip (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1708/ttd-newgrf-psp7-dos.pal.zip 08:48:35 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:51:37 <Ammler> zip? 10:19:18 <planetmaker> hm, I just attached it and didn't pay much attention ;-) 12:14:24 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:46:50 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:05:49 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:06:45 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Document: NewGRF Development Guide for Windows Users (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/28 14:06:45 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - NewGRF_Development_Guide_for_Windows_Users_1.0.0.pdf (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1709/NewGRF_Development_Guide_for_Windows_Users_1.0.0.pdf 14:09:01 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 123:2490f6b4a05f: - Add function to handle too weak town rating and raise it (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/2490f6b4a05f 14:12:20 *** DayDreamer has quit IRC 14:15:49 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - NewGRF_Development_Guide_for_Windows_Users_1.0.0.docx (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1710/NewGRF_Development_Guide_for_Windows_Users_1.0.0.docx 16:17:39 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:51:23 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Revision 86:d313155c431a: Feature: Connexxion 5001 (with temporary graphics awai... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtramset/repository/revisions/d313155c431a 16:51:23 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Revision 87:fc83c3a6c1e8: Codechange: make compatible with RC1 (and break for cu... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtramset/repository/revisions/fc83c3a6c1e8 16:52:07 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Feature #2904: Make compatible with RC (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2904#change-7239 16:53:25 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Feature #2920 (Assigned): Sort vehicle list (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2920 16:54:58 *** Zuu has quit IRC 16:55:23 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Feature #2921 (Assigned): Connexxion 5001 graphics (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2921 16:56:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2856: Sort purchase list property (admin) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2856#change-7240 16:56:46 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1561:f98ea92ec0d7: Doc: Improve template documentation somewhat. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/f98ea92ec0d7 17:01:22 <Brot6> Dutch Tram Set - Feature #2922 (New): Update translations (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2922 17:01:25 <planetmaker> hm, why is nml #2856 mentioned? 17:01:25 <Brot6> planetmaker: hm: #2856 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2856 "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2856: Sort purchase list property - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 17:02:24 <Ammler> planetmaker: ask the creator 17:02:44 <planetmaker> no, i wonder why brot mentioned it :-) 17:02:54 <Ammler> because "admin" made "something" 17:03:01 <Ammler> like brot says 17:03:41 <planetmaker> :-) 17:03:41 <Ammler> well, I commented it and noticed, I am logged in as admin, so I removed the comment again 17:04:06 <planetmaker> ok, that left me wondering. No change, but a mentioning here :-) 17:04:13 <planetmaker> and everyone knows you're admin ;-) 17:04:23 <Ammler> I removed the comment after brot mentioned 17:04:44 <planetmaker> and I looked after brot mentioned it ;-) 17:05:24 <Ammler> and the removing caused brot to announce r1561 17:05:40 <planetmaker> lol 17:05:58 <Ammler> I was wondering, if nml couldn't simply sort the ids like they are in the source 17:06:12 <Ammler> and not needing another "hack" 17:08:48 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2856: Sort purchase list property (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2856#change-7249 17:10:40 <planetmaker> Ammler, that's what NML most probably does - if not asked to do differently 17:11:00 <planetmaker> But that might not always be the best order. 17:11:46 <Ammler> it is quite ugly, if you still need to handle the IDs, imo 17:12:29 <Ammler> planetmaker: you don't think, it does sort like the ids? 17:13:27 <planetmaker> Ammler, and then the ugly part is: I add a new tileID for the coal mine. Now either I add it in a separate file at the end of the source. Or all tileIDs change 17:14:09 <planetmaker> so it needs a method different from "order in source". Implicit doesn't work for projects which change and want to keep compatibility and decent source code 17:14:10 <Ammler> and those tiles need to be sorted because? 17:16:17 <Ammler> oh, it isn't about ids 17:16:22 <Ammler> why did I think so? 17:17:16 <planetmaker> of course it's about IDs 17:17:46 <planetmaker> should I make one file coal_mine.pnml. Three month later coal_mine_additional_tile.pnml 17:17:57 <planetmaker> and then we it going on so forth 17:19:14 <Brot6> heqs: update from r607 to r610 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/nightlies/r610 17:19:53 *** LordAro has quit IRC 17:20:12 <planetmaker> not having the option to assign IDs means I cannot ever shuffle the source code 17:20:27 <planetmaker> to make it more readable and maintainable 17:20:28 <Brot6> dutchtramset: update from r85 to r87 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/dutchtramset/nightlies/r87 17:21:04 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r245), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), firs (r2233), sub-landscape (r72), opengfx (r681), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r114), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r202), nml (r1564), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), 17:21:04 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), fish (r683), ogfx-landscape (r71), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r203), grfcodec (r832), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), 17:21:06 <Brot6> ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71) 17:21:43 <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/narvs/nightlies/ERROR/r37 17:22:26 <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r72 still failed (#2892) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-landscape/nightlies/ERROR/r72 17:24:10 <Ammler> planetmaker: setting id is not sorting, imo 17:24:55 <planetmaker> exactly. But if it is done implicity, it requires the proper sorting which then never must be touched 17:25:45 <Ammler> and why does that need another manual handling? 17:25:55 <Ammler> that is what I don't get 17:26:12 <planetmaker> how does an automatism know how they were last time, when I swap source files? 17:26:37 <Ammler> why do you swap source files but like to keep old sorting? 17:26:47 <planetmaker> old IDs 17:26:53 <Ammler> ids do not change 17:27:00 <Ammler> as you set those 17:27:13 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:27:28 <planetmaker> well, yes. We do or can do currently 17:28:26 <planetmaker> <Ammler> I was wondering, if nml couldn't simply sort the ids like they are in the source <-- I guess I mis-understood you here. 17:28:29 <Ammler> so the issue is, if you don't set ids and like to change sorting? 17:28:30 <planetmaker> What should NML sort? 17:28:51 <planetmaker> Ammler, yes, if they're not set - and one changes sorting - then the IDs change 17:29:14 <Ammler> wouldn't it make more sense to set ids in that case? 17:29:30 <planetmaker> one should do it, yes 17:30:00 <Ammler> it just makes the feeling of hackish code 17:30:17 <planetmaker> setting IDs? 17:30:23 <planetmaker> I don't think so. 17:30:37 <planetmaker> They need definition once in the item declaration and that's it 17:30:45 <planetmaker> one can consider it just another property 17:31:24 <planetmaker> And that exactly might be a way to change it: adding a pseudo property "id" to the properties. And skipping the ID in the item declaration itself 17:31:37 <Ammler> setting id is fine 17:31:45 <Ammler> I meant the ticket is about sorting 17:32:13 <planetmaker> #2856 ? 17:32:14 <Brot6> planetmaker: #2856 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2856 "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2856: Sort purchase list property - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 17:32:49 <Ammler> maybe it is silly sorting of openttd 17:33:21 <planetmaker> well, that sorting property might be nice if the ID order is not a good default order 17:34:34 <Ammler> sorting properity is for id sorting isn't? 17:35:00 <planetmaker> By default the purchase list is sorted by IDs - if that sorting property isn't used 17:35:34 <Ammler> so a qustion could be, does it make sense to sort by ids 17:43:34 <V453000> hmm, any hints on a program to convert iso to a flash? I tried Unetbootin which I found hinted in some guide but it does not support fedora 15 which I downloaded x.x 17:55:38 <Ammler> well, I would use dd, but that is linux 17:56:42 <V453000> I found something on fedora pages 17:57:14 <Ammler> again, just think simpler 17:57:40 <Ammler> how do you think, unetbootin doesn't work on fedora 15? 17:58:09 <V453000> it allowed me to select only up to version 14 17:59:51 <V453000> hm, I guess a Live USB is an USB from which I can boot the system, but not install it? 18:10:26 <Ammler> depends on the livedisk, some support also installing 18:10:48 <Ammler> but yes, the idea is to try it without installing 18:17:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:46:25 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2856: Sort purchase list property (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2856#change-7250 18:53:50 <V453000> hello from fedora :P 18:54:11 <V453000> and it seems like i can install it from the disk as well :) 19:00:54 <FooBar> hi fedora :) 19:02:21 <V453000> hi :P 19:05:16 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22708 to r22711 done (6 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r22711 19:10:05 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22708 to r22711 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22711 19:14:47 <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22708 to r22711 done (10 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/r22711 19:17:02 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22711 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r22711 19:19:19 <V453000> hm ... shiny :D 19:50:34 <V453000> hm ... help! :d I am trying to install fedora and I either cannot decide which type of installation or I have some other problem ... I am selecting the Shrink Current System which says "Shrinks existing partitions to create free space for the default layout." which I think is what I want but when I try to shrink the space out of some disk, I try to split like 1500MB, the disk has like 20GB free and it still says "not enough space on 19:57:50 <Ammler> oh, you wanna install fedora on your native disk? 19:57:57 <Ammler> not as a vm? 19:58:46 <V453000> no 19:58:49 <V453000> on my disk 19:58:49 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 611:c4f517044d07: Change: add sprite sheet for forklift (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/c4f517044d07 19:58:55 <V453000> I have the live disk currently on 19:58:58 <Ammler> note, if you wanna use the buildsystem like foobar exmplains, you should use it on a vm 19:59:01 <V453000> and it has an option to install it normally 19:59:22 <V453000> wait I thought that if I use fedora normally I do not need to vm 19:59:38 <Ammler> yes, but then you do not combine windows and linux 20:00:01 <Ammler> that is not how the foobar guide recommends 20:00:11 <V453000> uh 20:00:19 <V453000> what? :D 20:00:25 <Ammler> that would be how I am doing it 20:00:37 <Ammler> wich might not be what you want 20:01:01 <Ammler> please decide first, what you want 20:01:18 <V453000> well I suppose using fedora would be better (?) 20:01:29 <Ammler> instead? 20:01:39 <V453000> instead of running a virtual machine from windows 20:01:47 <Ammler> using fedora (linux) is no option 20:02:02 <Ammler> that you do in both cases, the question is, do you want to run linux as vm or native 20:02:20 <Ammler> if as vm, please check the foobar guide 20:02:26 <V453000> I meant natively as "using" 20:02:43 <Ammler> so linux only, not like foobar? 20:02:49 <Ammler> which is cool 20:02:58 <V453000> I would like to try it at the very least 20:03:08 <V453000> I do not really have a reason to stay on windows 20:03:17 <Ammler> well, starting with vm isn't worst choice either 20:03:24 <Ammler> ah ok, nice 20:03:40 <Ammler> don't get me wrong, I do have windows too here 20:03:58 <Ammler> e.g. for some special gaming I used to reboot to windows 20:04:10 <V453000> sure I just felt like it is needless to use windows when I would run a vm on it anyway 20:04:31 <V453000> and at the same time I think it could be valuable to learn something with linux 20:04:54 <Ammler> you know, what's a vm? 20:05:09 <Ammler> you would have a real linux there 20:05:23 <V453000> well, sort of 20:05:25 <V453000> but still :) 20:05:29 <Ammler> :-) 20:05:58 <Ammler> I do the opposite, I run windows vm here for some special ms access app 20:06:08 <V453000> :) 20:06:26 <Ammler> and for gaming, you don't need something else anyway, then a reboot is fine 20:07:01 <Ammler> so yes, go on, I guess, you can still use the guide from foobar to install the tools on fedora 20:07:02 <V453000> I havent gamed anything for a looong time excluding openttd, so .. :) 20:07:13 <Ammler> openttd works natively with linux 20:07:14 <V453000> right. :) 20:07:20 <V453000> I know :) 20:08:11 <FooBar> 1.5 GB is probably too little for Fedora anyways. Was the error that it could not create the partition, or that the partition was too small? I recommend at least 8 GB 20:08:25 <Ammler> also it might be very fragmented 20:08:43 <V453000> yeah fragmentation was what I thought 20:08:58 <FooBar> possibly 20:08:59 <V453000> FooBar: ok :) I will leave more space for it 20:09:14 <FooBar> run a defrag and try again; then you'll know ;) 20:09:29 <V453000> :p 20:09:38 <andythenorth> grr 20:09:42 <andythenorth> my mac didn't arrive 20:09:55 <andythenorth> conclusion: don't pay expansys.com £10 extra for next-day delivery 20:11:56 <FooBar> what's that name? expensive.com? 20:12:18 <andythenorth> :P 20:12:46 <andythenorth> http://www.expansys.com/apple-macbook-pro-mc724b-a-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-2-7ghz-i7-4gb-500gb-13-3-209789/ 20:12:47 <andythenorth> hmm 20:12:59 <andythenorth> maybe I missed the 'by 4pm' bit 20:13:19 <andythenorth> only 4GB RAM :( 20:13:20 <andythenorth> lame 20:14:25 <FooBar> well, you should've checked the specs earlier 20:14:33 <andythenorth> :o 20:14:39 <andythenorth> 8Gb is only £40 20:14:41 <andythenorth> hmm 20:14:49 * andythenorth will need to donate 4GB to someone 20:15:10 <V453000> hmm many sources say "no defragmentations with linux" but I assume that works only for linux file systems, not FAT? 20:15:21 <andythenorth> does windows need to defrag? 20:15:22 <V453000> *NTFS or whatever is that win mess 20:15:23 <andythenorth> how quaint 20:15:43 <V453000> guess it is better to defrag from windows 20:15:57 <V453000> let's try :) 20:16:33 <FooBar> andythenorth: not really. I never do it. But there's an option to do so. 20:19:09 <Ammler> you don't need defrag for usage 20:19:33 <Ammler> but the stupid windows filesystems need it to be able to reduce 20:19:51 <andythenorth> all OS have something stupid 20:20:04 <andythenorth> my OS has loads of stupidity 20:20:16 <Ammler> I am not aware of anything stupid here 20:20:25 <Ammler> well, except the user 20:20:33 <FooBar> V453000: the shrink install option should indeed be OK. 20:26:01 <V453000> right, thank you :) 20:46:03 *** bodis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:57:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:01:20 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:21 <Ammler> V453000: install worked now? 21:24:40 *** Lakie has quit IRC 21:50:10 *** FooBar has quit IRC 21:55:46 *** bodis has quit IRC