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05:00:52 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 05:01:53 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:00:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:08:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:50:58 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:57:44 <Hirundo> morning folks 09:58:28 <planetmaker> moin Hirundo 10:03:56 <Terkhen> hi Hirundo 10:06:52 * Hirundo ponders how/if FS4408 should be handled in NML 10:12:00 <Hirundo> (MB nitpicking about imperial/metric units) 10:13:49 <planetmaker> ach, again? 10:14:38 <Hirundo> no not again, once was bad enough 10:14:41 <planetmaker> ah, no, old bug :-) 10:15:23 <Hirundo> Currently 1 hp in NML == 1 imperial hp != 1 metric hp 10:15:56 <Hirundo> Since I'd guess most users use metric, they'd think that NML is wrong 10:17:15 <Hirundo> Unfortunately both systems use 'hp' as unit 10:17:22 <planetmaker> personally I'd prefer metric hp, yes 10:17:38 <planetmaker> nml.cfg :-P 10:18:04 <planetmaker> though... that might not be a good choice 10:18:08 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:18:11 <planetmaker> it'd need to be part of the source of a project 10:18:48 *** michi_cc has left #openttdcoop.devzone 10:18:48 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:21:39 <Hirundo> When making the distinction, hp(I) and hp(M) are used, but that's quite convoluted for such a minor point 10:22:22 <Terkhen> hp could be used as an alias for hp(M) then 10:23:13 <planetmaker> just hpI and hpM with hp == hpM 10:23:45 <planetmaker> or if you want hp_I and hp_M 10:23:54 <planetmaker> but... tedious to type ;-) 10:24:11 <Terkhen> yes :P 10:24:29 <Ammler> implement one and wait until someone reqeust the other... 10:24:54 <planetmaker> hpI is implemented. And I request the other :-P 10:25:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:25:13 <Hirundo> FYI - I'm pretty sure t's possible to use parentheses in a unit as "km/h" works also 10:26:21 <Ammler> ah ok :-) 10:30:13 <planetmaker> Hirundo, yes, but typing parenthesis in units is... not something I prefer 10:33:57 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:35:19 <Hirundo> agreed, I'll stick to hpI and hpM 10:39:38 <planetmaker> hm... kmh^(-1) :-p 10:40:35 <planetmaker> tiles/day might be useful :-) 10:40:49 <planetmaker> it'd be the preferred unit for V ;-) 10:43:50 <planetmaker> hm... how many km is a tile, if going by the speed of vehicles? 10:44:42 <planetmaker> I guess that was the number with the hundrets of km 10:47:53 <Ammler> 1km on country side and around 100m in town 10:54:36 <Terkhen> I suppose that the hp -> hpM change will break ogfx-rv and ogfx-trains 10:57:11 <FooBar> wait, what about this hpM? 10:58:07 <Hirundo> There is a slight (1.4%) difference between imperial and metric horsepower 10:58:27 <FooBar> hmmm, I noticed something like that 10:58:33 <Hirundo> internally imperial units are used, but most users use metric 10:58:55 <FooBar> But then I figured that it was due to the 10 hp rounding... 10:59:04 <Hirundo> No, that's for RVs only 10:59:22 <FooBar> Oh, well I was coding those :P 10:59:42 <Terkhen> since ogfx- "copy" default vehicles, they will need hpI :P 10:59:57 <Hirundo> Default vehicles have no hp, right? 11:00:13 <FooBar> I'd say keep hp as imperial units and add hpM for metric 11:00:52 <FooBar> Current sets either calculated to imperial themselves or just don't care 11:01:00 <Terkhen> they do, although the HP for standard road vehicles was not chosen correctly IMO 11:01:55 <FooBar> anyways, whatever you guys decide is best, let me know if I need to change Dutch Tram Set :P 11:04:08 <planetmaker> I don't mind if one of my newgrfs 'breaks' due to now using hp metric as default 11:04:26 <planetmaker> as I would have chosen wrongly most probably anyway ;-) 11:07:33 <Hirundo> I don't really mind either way (hpI or hpM as default), I use kW myself anyways :) 11:09:29 <planetmaker> :-) 11:11:06 <Hirundo> It's only when I looked up the conversion factor for kW, that I noticed the hpI/hpM thingy in the first place 11:11:55 <FooBar> oh, you can use kW now? 11:13:14 <FooBar> Also, what factor uses Google for "kW in hp"? I might have used the imperial one without even knowing... 11:14:40 <Terkhen> imperial suits google better :P 11:15:12 <Hirundo> FooBar: Not yet, need to finish and commit first 11:15:20 <FooBar> ah, cool 11:15:30 <FooBar> Terkhen: yes, I think so too 11:16:24 <Hirundo> yes, google is imperial, so that will be the default (hp=hpI, as is now) 11:19:08 <FooBar> in that case I don't have to do anything :) 11:54:49 <planetmaker> hm. The only major things still missing in NML are stations, houses (partially) and bridges, right, Hirundo ? 11:55:30 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2814 (Closed): Monorail and maglev food vans appear to have missing sprites (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2814#change-7251 11:55:30 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 682:49591a765fc6: Fix #2814: tropic food monolev wagon was missing (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/49591a765fc6 11:55:42 <planetmaker> :-O 11:55:50 <FooBar> I MENDED SOMETHING! 11:55:56 <planetmaker> that was really missing? 11:56:16 <FooBar> yes, it referenced some blue boxes rather than the actual sprites 11:56:42 <planetmaker> :-O 11:56:51 <Hirundo> planetmaker: canals and currencies come to mind, but those aren't really major in any sense 11:56:59 <planetmaker> currencies? 11:57:05 <planetmaker> I don't think it needs support 11:57:21 <planetmaker> canals... that's not minor IMHO :-) 11:57:35 <Hirundo> I don't know either about currencies, haven't ever looked at it 11:57:38 <planetmaker> But it's not as complex as houses and stations 11:57:54 <planetmaker> OpenTTD defines currencies... I'm pretty sure OpenTTD doesn't support newgrf currencies 11:58:06 <Hirundo> Canals have like 2 properties and vars, they need some documentation though 11:58:14 <planetmaker> yeah 11:58:25 <planetmaker> sounds like a thing which I can do :-P 11:58:53 <planetmaker> You do stations. I do canals. Each of us has done one major feature :-P 11:59:01 <planetmaker> sounds fair to me ;-) 11:59:19 <Hirundo> canal item IDs are used to define what the sprites are for 11:59:32 <planetmaker> cargoIDs? 11:59:47 <Hirundo> no, item ids (action0/3) 12:00:11 <Hirundo> and your definition of 'fair' must be .... awkward :P 12:00:11 <planetmaker> you mean prop. 09? 12:00:25 * planetmaker hugs Hirundo 12:01:23 <planetmaker> he... but canals isn't as straight forward with those quirks as one might want to assume 12:01:31 <Hirundo> If you define item(FEAT_CANALS, some_name, 2), the number 2 tells openttd that it provides 'dikes' 12:01:36 <planetmaker> (but yes, no match for houses or stations) 12:01:59 <planetmaker> hm, does it? Where is that described? 12:02:24 <Hirundo> Somewhere on the wiki, probably action0 or 3 12:02:38 <planetmaker> isn't that what is mentioned in prop. 0x09? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Canals 12:02:40 <Webster> Title: Action0/Canals - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 12:03:02 <planetmaker> hm, I must have mis-understood that so far :-) 12:03:42 <Ammler> ttdpatch tiki seems down 12:03:47 <planetmaker> yes, it is 12:03:53 <planetmaker> But... it's obsolete 12:04:03 <Ammler> yes, but a lot links end there 12:04:14 <Hirundo> Prop 9 toggles between a 'basic' and an 'advanced' format or whatever 12:04:16 <planetmaker> :-) fix them to point to the tt-wiki 12:04:17 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2687: SH'8P' emits smoke in front of the engine (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2687#change-7252 12:04:27 <Ammler> not necessary my links 12:04:31 <planetmaker> FooBar, have fun fixing that ;-) 12:04:48 <planetmaker> But by all means, please give it a try 12:04:50 <FooBar> I'm not. I'm just commenting on the issue, that's all 12:05:48 <planetmaker> :-) 12:06:30 <Ammler> if you wanna make ogfx release, it should happen this week, else you could wait for openttd 1.1.3 12:06:47 <planetmaker> nothing changed since the last one, Ammler 12:07:52 <Ammler> well, the bugfix fb just committed 12:08:32 <planetmaker> hm, true 12:08:44 <planetmaker> that'd be worth a release on its own 12:09:14 <planetmaker> and improved food processor 12:10:33 <planetmaker> Without irony: it's good that you keep an eye on OpenGFX releases, Ammler :-) 12:11:00 <Ammler> :-P 12:11:15 <Ammler> I just mentioned it so you don't need to hurry again 12:11:36 <planetmaker> :-) 12:12:21 <planetmaker> but I wonder... I now have three heads, nogfx - that's ok. But changeset: 677:05c5f8a96c4d and 682:49591a765fc6 I don't understand 12:12:37 <planetmaker> FooBar, did you force-push a new head? 12:12:55 <FooBar> no? 12:13:14 <FooBar> there was already two heads before me 12:13:26 <Ammler> #2796 is not really clear about the issue 12:13:26 <Brot6> Ammler: #2796 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2796 "OpenGFX - Bug #2796: copper ore wagons differ empty and loaded - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 12:13:33 <planetmaker> hm, no 12:13:41 <FooBar> I was about to look into that issue 12:13:59 <Ammler> planetmaker: the other head is nml2nfo 12:14:01 <FooBar> there are some more tropic wagons in the extra grf that could use their own sprites I think 12:14:22 <FooBar> planetmaker: I'll try and merge those heads 12:14:38 <Ammler> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx <-- you see it here 12:14:44 <Ammler> or you can pull bookmarks 12:14:46 <planetmaker> ah, no, don't FooBar :-) 12:14:55 <planetmaker> it was on purpose it seems, and yes 12:14:57 <FooBar> ok, I won't then 12:15:03 <Ammler> FooBar: there is a reason I didn't merge 12:15:19 <FooBar> I'll leave it as it is then 12:15:23 <planetmaker> FooBar, there's A LOT to do with trains 12:15:23 <Ammler> nml2nfo does not work 12:15:26 <FooBar> just hope I committed to the right branch :P 12:15:33 <planetmaker> yes, I think you did 12:15:37 <FooBar> ok good 12:15:46 <planetmaker> Ammler, it should be named branch IMHO 12:15:47 <Ammler> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/graph 12:15:48 <FooBar> nml2nfo worked here for the train thing I just did 12:15:49 <planetmaker> otherwise it's confusing 12:15:55 <Ammler> you guys really should learn to use graphs 12:16:04 <FooBar> I use graphs ;) 12:16:25 <FooBar> it's just that the graph doesn't show me why a branch is there and if it should be merged or not 12:16:27 <Ammler> planetmaker: if you tell me how you name a branch after push, I will 12:16:56 <planetmaker> Ammler, hg branch ;-) 12:16:58 <Ammler> hg pull -B 12:17:03 <Ammler> planetmaker: after commit 12:17:03 <planetmaker> set or show the current branch name 12:17:17 <Ammler> please try it first, then tell me :-P 12:17:24 <planetmaker> :-) 12:17:28 * planetmaker is a lazy fool 12:17:41 <Ammler> yes, not possible 12:18:04 <Ammler> but nice, we speak about :-P 12:18:38 <planetmaker> Well. I usually only work from cmd 12:18:51 <planetmaker> And there a hg heads doesn't mention anything about that head 12:19:11 <FooBar> try tortoise, that comes with a graph 12:19:26 <Ammler> planetmaker: it should mention things like (+1 heads) 12:19:28 <planetmaker> FooBar, thanks. I know it. I have it. I don't use it 12:19:32 <planetmaker> :-) 12:19:39 <Ammler> or use something like slog 12:19:53 <FooBar> planetmaker: ok, use whatever you're comfortable with 12:19:56 <planetmaker> Ammler, it mentions all heads fair enough 12:20:03 <planetmaker> but not how they relate :-) 12:20:10 <Ammler> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/397/ 12:20:13 <planetmaker> FooBar, and that is quickest to use cmd :-) 12:20:25 <planetmaker> if I'd had to switch context for each... lengthy ;-) 12:20:32 <FooBar> Not for me, I forget the commands half the time :P 12:20:41 <Ammler> slog = glog -l10 --template "{branch}\t{rev}:{node|short}|{author|person} {desc|firstline}\n" 12:21:29 <planetmaker> cool. Thanks Ammler :-) 12:22:04 <planetmaker> much better even than hg log ;-) 12:22:33 <Ammler> FooBar: 676:b6184f609175|Ammler Fix (r675): NML2NFO doesn't work with source bundles <-- why it doesn't work 12:23:17 <Ammler> imo, we should get ride of the manual source bundle building... 12:24:00 <planetmaker> you mean source bundles from the bundle_src ? 12:24:32 <Ammler> yes, the dependency check is not reproduceable 12:24:41 <Ammler> (for me) 12:26:34 <Ammler> planetmaker: a little glitch in my alias is that it seems not possible to make without a empty line 12:27:54 <Ammler> hmm, needed to show the splits 12:28:00 <Ammler> or merges 12:28:47 <Ammler> FooBar: the final idea of nml2nfo should be that if nml is available it should build the nfos from nml 12:29:27 <Ammler> but it should not fail, if nml isn't available, so how to handle that? 12:29:33 <FooBar> oh, ok. Now I set this thing in makefile.config 12:30:03 <FooBar> maybe just make nml a dependency for building OpenGFX 12:30:20 <planetmaker> That might eventually be done 12:30:31 <planetmaker> But I'd not go for it now - even when we already have a release of NML 12:31:53 <FooBar> for now I think what we have is pretty much close to the only option: if nml, rebuild some nfo's from source, otherwise use the versioned nfo's 12:32:13 <FooBar> maybe the only improvement is self-detection of nml rather than having to set the flag or what you call it 12:32:35 <Ammler> FooBar: that is not the issue 12:32:42 <Ammler> it still does not work 12:32:47 <Ammler> dependency check fails 12:33:24 <FooBar> ? Then I might not have used it completely yet. But my change in the nml file rebuilt the nfo just fine 12:34:16 <FooBar> I don't think I understand what's wrong. From what I've seen so far I can only conclude that it works :) 12:34:35 <Ammler> try it with source bundle 12:34:57 <andythenorth> meh 12:35:20 <FooBar> hmmm ok. That I obviously haven't tried :D 12:35:51 <FooBar> I see why you would want that to work :) 12:36:47 <Ammler> personally, I would not need to have it working with source bundle 12:36:59 <Ammler> but some here things, mercurial as dependency is bad 12:37:04 <Ammler> thinks* 12:37:54 <andythenorth> grr 12:37:59 <andythenorth> my new mac is now in my office 12:38:01 <andythenorth> but I am not 12:38:16 <andythenorth> it's probably just going to be annoying anyway 12:38:17 <FooBar> why are you not in your office? 12:38:24 <andythenorth> working at home 12:38:40 <FooBar> working he calls this :P 12:38:50 <Ammler> :-) 12:38:50 <andythenorth> lunch he calls this :P 12:38:58 <andythenorth> no commits from me today :P 12:39:18 <FooBar> lunch... sounds plausible given the time zone difference 12:39:44 <andythenorth> I am the boss...I gain nothing by shirking :( 12:40:06 <FooBar> anyways, how far is your house from your office? 12:40:10 <andythenorth> some 12:40:11 <andythenorth> not too far 12:40:23 <andythenorth> I just know that something won't work on the new mac 12:40:28 <andythenorth> which will be annoying 12:40:31 <FooBar> and do you have any means of transportation available, say a car? 12:40:35 <andythenorth> yes 12:40:37 <Ammler> oh well, it is just a mac 12:40:39 <andythenorth> some app I like will fail 12:40:44 <andythenorth> one mac is much like another 12:40:53 <andythenorth> they're all about the same 12:41:01 <andythenorth> just a box with keys on 12:41:11 <FooBar> well, then get your ass in the car and go to the office. Or don't complain :P 12:41:25 <andythenorth> complaining is one of my greatest arts 12:41:27 <FooBar> I can't really feel sorry for you right now :D 12:42:02 <andythenorth> I used to be *really* excited by new hardware 12:42:02 <Ammler> complaining is one thing, which works so nicely over irc 12:42:03 <FooBar> art you say? weren't you the one in search for a get rich quick scheme? 12:42:37 <FooBar> maybe you should contemplate something exploiting that skill 12:42:51 <andythenorth> does anyone else now have a sinking feeling when new hardware arrives? 12:42:59 <andythenorth> and software same 12:43:09 <FooBar> yes 12:43:22 <FooBar> It's always a relief if you find that it works 12:43:31 <andythenorth> it's just more stuff to go wrong :\ 12:44:14 <planetmaker> it's always a trade-off between improvement and time spent 12:44:24 <Ammler> with linux, you learn to life with troubles :-) 12:44:38 <planetmaker> but... give send your new mac to me if it bothers you ;-) 12:44:48 <andythenorth> if it's a PITA I'll do that 12:45:01 <andythenorth> Ammler: with apple, if you drink the kool-aid 12:45:05 <andythenorth> you expect it to just work 12:45:10 <andythenorth> mostly it used to 12:45:13 <planetmaker> my hardware cloning failed due to circular symlink deps :S 12:45:14 <FooBar> software not so much though. I hardly purchase any software. Last software I purchased was office 2010. And since that's a fixed office 2007 I expected that to work rather well. So for that particular software I was rather excited when it arrived in the mail 12:45:19 <planetmaker> Thus I still haven't installed 10.7 12:45:27 <Ammler> andythenorth: yes, because you are completely lost, if not 12:45:53 <andythenorth> expectations change 12:46:02 <andythenorth> I used to be pleased when my mac stopped crashing every hour 12:46:12 <andythenorth> now I'm cross if a single app has a small glitch of any kind 12:46:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth, it still does. But indeed they require you to buy new apps also every three to five years 12:46:27 <Ammler> on linux, a dummy can fix issues 12:46:43 * andythenorth -> going out 12:46:44 <andythenorth> bbl 12:46:48 <planetmaker> Ammler, on no single OS a dummy can fix anything ;-) 12:46:59 <FooBar> bye andythenorth, have fun working :) 12:47:01 <Ammler> mac issues aren't solveable for mac users 12:47:04 <andythenorth> he 12:47:18 * andythenorth recommends Ammler to people who have mac problems 12:47:21 <andythenorth> Ammler can fix them :) 12:47:23 <andythenorth> bye 12:47:27 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 12:47:33 <Ammler> andythenorth: most probably better as a mac user ;-) 12:48:02 <Ammler> I also don't use windows since a long time now, but I can still solve the most windows issues better as my windows friends 12:48:22 <planetmaker> I'm increasingly loosing my windows knowledge 12:48:35 <Ammler> planetmaker: you don't need it you have linux knowledge 12:48:42 <planetmaker> no? 12:48:50 <Ammler> if* 12:49:15 <Ammler> windows knowledge is included with linux knowledge 12:49:27 <Ammler> if you lear to use linux, you can handle everything 12:50:01 <planetmaker> not exactly. Solving network issues and alike are much easier to solve, if you know where things are 12:50:03 <Ammler> I am much better windows user, since I don't use it anymore 12:50:11 <FooBar> heh P 12:50:14 <Ammler> :-) 12:50:31 <planetmaker> and I always get annoyed at windows when I have to use the ugly explorer to just "browse" the file system 12:50:38 <Ammler> FooBar: you might be a exception 12:50:55 <FooBar> probably 12:50:55 <planetmaker> I always need total commander installed :-P 12:51:19 <FooBar> I've became a much better Linux user since I've started poking around in it though 12:51:25 <planetmaker> :-) 12:51:34 <planetmaker> that usually helps 12:51:44 <Ammler> of course, there are some windows devs/experts, which know it better as me, I just meant I know it better as the average 12:52:17 * planetmaker suspects ALL people in this channel do 12:54:13 <FooBar> planetmaker: the "ugly explorer" is pretty much the same as Nautilus. But you probably don't use that either :P 12:54:22 <planetmaker> :-P 12:54:24 <Ammler> gnome shit 12:54:35 <planetmaker> I grew VERY accustomed to doing things in the command line ;-) 12:55:11 <Ammler> FooBar: most linux user have permanent a console windows 12:55:14 <planetmaker> I sometimes use konquerer when it comes to finding an image file in big directories or so 12:55:22 <planetmaker> because then it's easier 12:55:31 <planetmaker> Ammler, one? ;-) 12:55:40 <Ammler> well, I am used to tabs 12:55:44 <FooBar> planetmaker: try dir on windows then. It's basically what ls does on linux ;) 12:56:03 <planetmaker> Ammler, I currently have 7 windows - and probably each has tabs :-P 12:56:17 <Ammler> :-) 12:56:18 <planetmaker> FooBar, I know 12:56:31 <planetmaker> But the cmd window is smaller ;-) 12:56:40 <planetmaker> but maybe it resizes 12:56:43 <Ammler> FooBar: you can't the command shell from windows compare with example bash 12:56:45 <FooBar> you can make it longer 12:56:48 <FooBar> not wider though 12:56:50 <Ammler> compare* 12:56:55 <planetmaker> wider is the important piece ;-) 12:56:57 <Ammler> how is the windows shell called btw.? 12:57:01 <planetmaker> cmd 12:57:10 <Ammler> yes, but the name? 12:57:28 <Ammler> windows shell? 12:57:31 <FooBar> command prompt 12:57:48 <FooBar> newer windowses however also have something called "Windows PowerShell" 12:58:10 <FooBar> that's more linuxy, as it also understands for instance the ls command 12:58:48 <FooBar> and you can make it bigger :P 12:59:12 <FooBar> I've never used that though 12:59:13 <Ammler> well, I would install msys or cygwin quite fast on windows 13:01:50 <FooBar> yes, I think most Linux users who need to use Windows for some reason will do that 13:01:51 <FooBar> and then I mean the advanced Linux users. Not the ones who thought they could get a cheap deal by having linux on their netbook instead of windows 13:01:51 <FooBar> those are basically still windows users, just not using windows 13:02:19 <Brot6> Unable to connect to http://dev.openttdcoop.org/sys/: execution expired 13:04:10 <FooBar> in conclusion, everybody should just use the OS they think they're happy with 13:10:10 <Ammler> FooBar: I was such a linux user too 13:10:47 <FooBar> you might be an exception :P 13:11:02 <Ammler> no, I think, that is the way someone switched to linux 13:11:57 <Ammler> I mean such simple things like building a newgrf or openttd are good examples 13:12:05 <FooBar> Oh, ok 13:12:59 <Ammler> well, I used to maintain linux fileservers long before as I still used windows 13:13:20 <Ammler> linux desktops aren't that long really useable 13:13:42 <FooBar> well, I don't expect me to switch any time soon. There's still things I don't think have an equal counterpart on Linux. 13:13:58 <Ammler> just to get a working graphics driver was a pain 5 years ago 13:14:57 <Ammler> I run the windows parts with wine or vbox 13:15:15 <FooBar> Well, I hope linux makes it as a recognised alternative to Windows or MacOS 13:15:34 <Ammler> it is already quite some time 13:15:36 <FooBar> for the regular computer user that is 13:15:44 <planetmaker> I think it is already somewhat 13:15:54 <FooBar> it's getting there, but the computer manufacturers are holding back 13:16:14 <FooBar> i.e. you can hardly find preassembled computers with Linux 13:16:15 <Ammler> I do not feel like a pioneer 13:16:37 <planetmaker> that's quite true, but you can 13:16:56 <Ammler> FooBar: not needed, opposite to windows or mac, linux just works on every hardware 13:17:14 <Ammler> you don't need to search the whole internet to find your drivers :-) 13:17:49 <Ammler> setup linux=1h, setup windows=1d 13:17:56 <FooBar> I know, but the average computer purchaser isn't even offered a computer with linux 13:18:54 <FooBar> that's what I meant by "recognised alternative" 13:18:54 <Ammler> well, I will give back the license and got another 50€ voucher 13:19:02 <planetmaker> boah... I just checked hp's website. It's grossly appalling. 13:20:01 <FooBar> windows is getting better on the driver part though. Win7 can download most drivers from windows update 13:20:01 <Ammler> ok, thanks to linux :-) 13:20:01 <FooBar> I guess they implemented that after the Vista driver debacle 13:20:08 <FooBar> yes, I think that's indeed thanks to linux 13:22:00 <planetmaker> well, HP sells computers with SLE desktop 13:22:00 <planetmaker> but interestingly, only few 13:22:30 <FooBar> true, but walk into any computer store and they need to order it for you. But, "we have this alternative with Windows which is slightly overpriced in stock". Customer will take that because it doesn't want to go back 13:22:35 <Ammler> yeah, and those people join #suse and you need to explain them that it is not opensuse :-) 13:23:12 <FooBar> maybe that has something to do with the channel name as well... 13:23:14 <planetmaker> :-P 13:23:32 <planetmaker> FooBar, also simple: they earn also on windows. But not on linux 13:23:45 <FooBar> yes, that's also a problem 13:24:00 <planetmaker> or they don't (yet) understand how to earn on linux 13:24:17 <planetmaker> after all, they might just as well charge a setup fee for that; they don't have to give it away for free 13:24:41 <planetmaker> but it'd require them to have *some* expertise in that area 13:24:43 <FooBar> precisely. And still be cheaper than the same system with windows 13:24:52 <Ammler> sle is not cheaper as windows 13:25:27 <planetmaker> But I guess they could still make some master images and just mirror that on the HDDs they put in their linux computers. or whatever .-) 13:25:28 <FooBar> I didn't think SLE in particular, but some free linux distro in general 13:26:33 <Ammler> well, the people have no experience with linux, so for a windows setup pro, setup linux might be harder as setup windows 13:27:08 <Ammler> hmm, no, impossible 13:28:06 <FooBar> When I compare Win7 install and Fedora install they're probably equally easy. Just ploink the cd in and follow a wizard 13:28:34 <Ammler> except that you have setup a complete systme with fedora 13:28:43 <Ammler> with win, you have just the base os 13:29:16 <Ammler> theny ou need 1h for office, 1h for your photoshop, 1h / game 13:29:18 <Ammler> .... 13:30:33 <Ammler> hmm, are you able to upgrade a windows system? 13:30:45 <Ammler> I mean upgrade from vista to windows7? 13:30:53 <FooBar> yes, you can do an in place upgrade 13:31:19 <FooBar> It will then install 7 on top of Vista and keep the old vista files in a separate dir in case you lost something 13:33:25 <FooBar> however, you can only upgrade to the same or "more expensive" edition and both need to be the same language 13:34:47 <FooBar> but I recommend a clean install regardless. Windows is something that is best reinstalled once a year anyways. 13:35:27 <Ammler> or as it has very long live support, once for the system lifetime ;-) 13:35:59 <Ammler> I mean, xp is still supported, isn't? 13:36:08 <FooBar> yes, it is 13:36:35 <FooBar> 50% of windows users still use XP, so they sort of have to 13:36:58 <FooBar> Vista will not have such long support 13:37:20 <Ammler> yeah, you always need to skip a release 13:37:28 <FooBar> But then it's still better to reinstall every year. Gets the muck out. 13:37:53 <Ammler> with linux, you do new install but keep /home 13:38:29 <Ammler> but also distro upgrade works fine since some releases now 13:38:43 <FooBar> On Windows I always put "my documents" and suchlike on a separate partition. So that is also kept on reinstall 13:39:14 <FooBar> the equivalent of what would be /home I'd rather not keep. Lots of software put lots of crap in there 13:39:16 <Ammler> and as there is almost every half year a new release, you don't need to fresh install the same 13:39:31 <Ammler> well, /home is a bit more as just my documents ;-) 13:39:44 <Ammler> :-) 13:39:54 <FooBar> yes, I know. For that reason I don't want to keep it on windows reinstall ;) 13:40:43 <FooBar> Other than that, Windows can learn something from the package manager in Linux 13:41:11 <Ammler> well, the issue there is that it has no free software 13:41:47 <FooBar> true, it will need to become some sort of app store 13:41:50 <Ammler> and as soon as money is involved, it would become complicated 13:42:01 <Ammler> no mirrors and such 13:42:17 <FooBar> microsoft can mirror themselves 13:42:34 <FooBar> I'm sure windows update has mirrors just like that 13:42:43 <Ammler> of course 13:42:58 <Ammler> but those updates are free... 13:43:25 <FooBar> yes, they are 13:43:44 <FooBar> I just read that win8 will have a "Windows Store" 13:43:58 <Terkhen> http://www.coapp.org/ 13:43:59 <Webster> Title: CoApp Home (at www.coapp.org) 13:44:07 <FooBar> so it seems they have learned from others once again :P 13:44:34 <Terkhen> nobody will use win8 anyways :) 13:45:17 <Terkhen> given that win7 works as good as you can expect from windows and most people still prefer winxp anyways... 13:45:46 <FooBar> win7 will probably be the new XP which they have to support for 10 years :P 13:45:58 <Terkhen> yes ;) 13:46:06 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:46:20 <Terkhen> oh, that coapp thing has some packages now 13:46:31 * Terkhen doubts it will ever have gcc :P 13:46:36 <FooBar> If they want me to upgrade, they should release it within 12 months such that I still have a MSDNAA account and can get it for free :P 13:48:08 * FooBar wonders how long university keeps email addresses alive, so that I might be able to trick them into renewal when I've graduated... 13:49:07 <Terkhen> keep working for them :P 13:49:27 <FooBar> that could be one solution 13:50:25 <FooBar> but unlikely 13:51:08 <Terkhen> :) 14:16:02 <orudge> FooBar: I managed to do that after my final year of uni 14:16:14 <orudge> which was handy, as VS2010 came out about then 14:16:42 <FooBar> heh, yes I woudn't mind if I could pull something off like that :P 14:21:33 <FooBar> hmmm, water, fruit and rubber don't have separate sprites for monolev wagons 14:21:37 <FooBar> I never knew that 14:22:36 <planetmaker> yes... base sets are VERY limited 14:23:22 <orudge> tsk, all you newbies who started playing TTD in the TTDPatch or OpenTTD era :p 14:23:31 <orudge> I remember when 1 set of wagons was all we ever had! ;) 14:23:37 <orudge> 3 sets of road vehicles, though 14:24:29 <FooBar> I started in the TTD era ;) 14:24:47 <planetmaker> orudge: I certainly did start with TTD. maybe TTO, I don't recall ;-) 14:24:55 <orudge> ah, well 14:24:57 <orudge> that's OK then ;) 14:25:04 <orudge> I started with TTO (although TTD was out; I just didn't have it) 14:25:06 <planetmaker> I'm just spoiled meanwhile :-P 14:25:09 <orudge> mmh 14:25:16 <orudge> actually trying to play a game of TTD would be... difficult, I think 14:25:33 <FooBar> making it work is the first obstacle 14:25:42 <orudge> well, that's relatively straightforward, really 14:25:51 <orudge> one could also substitute "TTD" for "OpenTTD 0.1" in this case 14:26:50 <FooBar> ok, but apart from that I don't think I want to try 14:27:52 <FooBar> I have less important things to do than playing TTD 14:31:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:31:20 * andythenorth is +1 mac 14:31:24 <andythenorth> bets on whether it boots? 14:31:35 <FooBar> define "boot" 14:31:51 <andythenorth> powers on + boots correctly into OS X 14:31:57 <FooBar> then no bets :P 14:32:01 <andythenorth> normally I buy refurb macs. they're (a) cheaper by far (b) not likely to be DOA 14:32:08 <andythenorth> new macs are worryingly often DOA 14:32:34 <andythenorth> we've had problems with about 3 out of maybe 60 14:32:39 <andythenorth> which is 5% :o 14:35:45 <planetmaker> DOA? 14:36:25 <andythenorth> dead on arrival 14:36:27 <andythenorth> either won't boot 14:36:31 <andythenorth> or critical hardware failure 14:36:50 <andythenorth> we've had dead DVD-rom, dead wireless, and logic board trouble 14:37:09 <andythenorth> means a trip back to apple 14:37:21 <andythenorth> the refurbs tend to be already fixed + have been bench tested by a technician 14:37:38 <andythenorth> never had a problem with refurb, plus, 20% cheaper :) 14:37:42 <planetmaker> interesting. 14:37:49 <planetmaker> 5% sounds like a lot 14:37:58 <andythenorth> it is 14:38:39 <andythenorth> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/11/apple-fourth-best-among-build-quality-study-for-portables.ars 14:38:40 <Webster> Title: Apple fourth best among build quality study for portables (at arstechnica.com) 14:45:52 <andythenorth> hmm 14:46:00 <andythenorth> on benchmarks the new mac rinses the old one 14:46:10 <andythenorth> nearly twice the benchmark performance 14:46:23 <andythenorth> despite 2.53ghz versus 2.7ghz and same amount of RAM 14:47:51 <planetmaker> probably i7 vs. core2duo or so 14:48:08 <andythenorth> yup 14:48:22 <andythenorth> wonder if this will make pixels faster 14:48:43 <andythenorth> if I didn't use 8 year old photoshop in rosetta mode, that *might* make pixels faster :P 15:02:19 <planetmaker> :-D 15:02:44 <planetmaker> any reason to not use a new(er) version of PS, or the CS? 15:06:19 <planetmaker> (except of course the €€€ reason) ;-) 15:09:34 <andythenorth> £££ 15:09:38 <andythenorth> plus lazy 15:15:54 <planetmaker> probably good decision. Installer just crashed :-P 15:17:21 * andythenorth wonders how many things will break by moving to snow leopard :( 15:17:39 <planetmaker> from Lion? 15:17:54 <planetmaker> err... Leopard? 15:18:10 <andythenorth> 10.5 > 10.6 15:18:15 <andythenorth> forget 10.7 :P 15:18:17 <andythenorth> too expensive 15:18:26 <planetmaker> :-) 15:18:50 <Lakie> Isn't 10.7 a download for 10.6 users? 15:18:56 <planetmaker> nah, I want to install it on my external HDD to shut the mouths of those whining kids 15:19:24 <planetmaker> and I don't like openttd to crash too obviously there 15:19:27 <andythenorth> it's 15:19:37 <andythenorth> but my photoshop, word, and excel will all stop working 15:19:50 <andythenorth> amongst other things :P 15:22:45 <Lakie> Don't they future-proof the apps? 15:25:08 <andythenorth> ha 15:25:42 <andythenorth> after you've drunk the kool-aid, it all seems normal ;) 15:26:28 <andythenorth> my 32-bit IBM/Moto PPC, big-endian app from 2003 doesn't work on my 64 bit, little-endian intel chip? 15:26:29 <andythenorth> :o 15:26:36 <andythenorth> the horror 15:26:46 <andythenorth> I just won't upgrade 15:26:49 <andythenorth> that'll learn em 15:30:11 <planetmaker> you're optimistic 15:30:14 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #1960 (Closed): shorter tropical rail wagons (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1960#change-7256 15:30:14 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2796 (Closed): copper ore wagons differ empty and loaded (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2796#change-7257 15:30:14 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 683:4e5227ad7601: Feature: update tropic rail wagons (closes #1960, #2796) (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/4e5227ad7601 15:49:39 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 684:c6b7eaed9ab6: Feature: new rubber wagon sprites to match rail wagons rathe... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/c6b7eaed9ab6 15:55:29 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2537 (Closed): Graphical glitch at Depot entrance (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2537#change-7258 16:11:12 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:11:37 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:11:53 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 16:11:58 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 16:12:08 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 16:12:13 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 16:13:54 *** Ammler has quit IRC 16:14:17 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 16:16:40 *** dihedral has quit IRC 16:17:18 *** dihedral has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:22:14 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112 (Assigned): Houses' foundation sprites (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2112#change-7259 16:22:30 <FooBar> funny, the page hasn't loaded here yet 16:24:31 *** seberoth has quit IRC 16:25:39 *** someone has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:30:37 *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:31:12 *** bodis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:34:41 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 16:40:03 *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:41:28 *** someone is now known as pm 16:41:35 *** pm is now known as pm2 16:42:18 *** seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:44:28 *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:48:33 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:49:33 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:24 *** Hirundo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:29 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:59 *** Terkhen has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:59 *** planetmaker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:05:08 *** pm2 has quit IRC 17:06:06 *** Lakie has quit IRC 17:19:59 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r681 to r684 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r684 17:21:22 <planetmaker> :-) 17:21:28 <Brot6> heqs: update from r610 to r611 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/nightlies/r611 17:22:42 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r245), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), firs (r2233), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r114), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r202), nml (r1564), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), 17:22:42 <Brot6> ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), fish (r683), ogfx-landscape (r71), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r203), grfcodec (r832), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string 17:22:44 <Brot6> (r29), airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71) 17:22:55 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1565:d9bb01b06bcc: Add: Several units for power and weight, and d... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/d9bb01b06bcc 17:22:55 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1566:628d1b635f36: Fix: Train running cost CB didn't work. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/628d1b635f36 17:23:27 <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/narvs/nightlies/ERROR/r37 17:24:10 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 17:25:13 <Hirundo> planetmaker: I have written an example train grf, currently residing in my examples/train directory 17:25:34 <Hirundo> I'd like to include it in the regression test too, how to best do that? 17:26:03 <Hirundo> Note that it needs some separate langfiles also 17:26:25 <planetmaker> Hirundo: use the common lang file for all regression tests 17:26:29 <planetmaker> they share the same one 17:27:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:27:32 <Hirundo> With 10 examples you'd end up with 100 strings or so, that's not ideal 17:27:57 <Hirundo> I'd like the example code to be quite accessible, it's likely one of the first things a user looks at 17:28:02 <planetmaker> that's how it works currently. And how many strings do you want per regression test? 17:28:17 <planetmaker> They can share the description even, just the name needs to be different 17:28:40 <planetmaker> whether the train in the test grf is called "bullocks coal truck" is of no importance 17:28:55 <planetmaker> you're also aware of regression test 010? 17:29:10 <planetmaker> it's already a train grf of sorts 17:31:29 <Hirundo> This is far more extensive, it uses every property and at least a dozen callbacks 17:31:51 <planetmaker> yexo's stance was: regression tests should not be extensive 17:32:05 <planetmaker> they should test one single thing at most. I.e. regression != example 17:32:21 <planetmaker> and gave already the 010 as bad example 17:32:36 <planetmaker> I tend to agree. Regressions are not examples 17:33:35 <planetmaker> hm, no he gave 006 (the tram) as bad, but nvm. 17:37:25 <Hirundo> I tend to agree with Yexo on that point, currently regression is a bit of a mess 17:38:37 <Hirundo> It might also be useful though, to have a 'train' regression test that uses every property, variable or callback available to trains 17:41:01 * Hirundo ponders 17:47:06 <V453000> hello from fedora, natively this time :D 17:49:46 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 685:3d119fdc7d9e: Fix #1279: swapped first two sprites of 1524-1529 small flats (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/3d119fdc7d9e 17:52:34 <FooBar> hmmm, 1279 wasn't right. How did I come to that :S 17:52:40 <Ammler> V453000: webchat :-P 17:52:48 <V453000> mhm :P 17:53:18 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2112 (Closed): Houses' foundation sprites (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2112#change-7260 17:54:01 <V453000> is that prohibited on linux? :D 17:54:18 <Ammler> not necessary, it has quite nice clients 17:54:28 <Ammler> depending on your DE 17:54:45 <Ammler> gnome or kde? 17:54:57 <Ammler> Fedora looks like Gnome 17:55:00 <V453000> gnome I think 17:55:20 <Terkhen> use a console irc client :P 17:55:21 <Ammler> then browser might indeed be good choice :-) 17:56:24 <V453000> :d 17:56:42 <V453000> dunno I like it :) 17:56:55 <Ammler> already "yum install openttd" done? 17:58:22 <Ammler> how well is mp3 and friends supported on Fedora? 18:01:50 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1567:4de9a2be5051: Add: Example train NewGRF. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/4de9a2be5051 18:02:26 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:04:30 <Ammler> http://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home:openttdcoop&package=nml <-- btw. nice download help to iframe include 18:07:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:09:21 <planetmaker> ah, that's probably a good idea that way, Hirundo :-) 18:12:35 <V453000> hmm, what do I need to be allowed to mkdir in etc/yum ? 18:13:04 <Ammler> su to root 18:13:07 <Ammler> or use sudo 18:13:54 <Ammler> but why should you mkdir? 18:14:02 <Ammler> the directory should already exist 18:14:08 <V453000> it doesnt 18:14:18 <Ammler> I would bet quite much, it does 18:14:32 <Ammler> maybe you need to be root to access it 18:15:07 <Ammler> it is not "etc/yum", it is "/etc/yum..." 18:16:18 <planetmaker> :-) 18:16:28 <planetmaker> most often it's better to just use sudo 18:17:30 <V453000> it wasnt in /etc/yum 18:17:42 <V453000> I just created it successfully 18:21:06 <andythenorth> Ammler: do you have to be root to see some of the filesystem? :o 18:22:54 <V453000> Ammler: complete! :D 18:23:41 <Ammler> andythenorth: possible, of course 18:24:07 <Ammler> linux is not just for gamers, some use it also on secure systems :-P 18:24:54 <Ammler> I do not know Fedora that well, on suse, you can view the most as common user 18:25:44 <V453000> what in general is a good path to save your data to in linux? 18:26:00 <V453000> desktop? >:D 18:26:14 <Ammler> why not 18:26:23 <Ammler> anyway, do nothing as root 18:26:29 <Ammler> except you need 18:26:38 <Ammler> and save everything to your home 18:27:21 <V453000> right :) 18:27:26 <V453000> I know, root is danger :) 18:27:57 <planetmaker> the best path is usually ~ 18:27:59 <planetmaker> ;-) 18:28:02 <planetmaker> which is your home ;-) 18:28:09 <V453000> arr :) 18:33:44 <andythenorth> Ammler: I guess I'm used to using my OS as an admin, not a restricted user 18:34:03 <andythenorth> afaik I can see everything root / wheel can 18:34:19 <andythenorth> except stuff marked for read only by other admin 18:35:52 <Ammler> andythenorth: yep, that is why linux users don't need to fear viruses etc. 18:36:05 <andythenorth> never say that :P 18:36:14 <andythenorth> most OS are only one stray click away from Boom! 18:36:42 <Ammler> nah, I can say that quite safely about linux 18:36:50 <andythenorth> he 18:37:08 <andythenorth> only if you know you'll never click 'confirm' when you meant to click 'cancel' or such :D 18:37:21 <andythenorth> basically wrt untrusted files 18:37:50 <andythenorth> you're still one untrusted file or removable device away from DoS / data loss 18:37:58 <andythenorth> even if your OS would be recoverable 18:38:06 <Ammler> I can confirm as user as much as I like 18:38:29 <andythenorth> hmm 18:38:35 <andythenorth> I'll take you at your word :) 18:38:46 <andythenorth> I know we don't treat our FreeBSD production boxes as secure 18:38:50 <Ammler> that is the point about user - root 18:39:17 <andythenorth> so if you download a binary, how do you execute it? 18:39:23 <Ammler> as user 18:39:28 <andythenorth> do you create a special new user for it, with a sandbox? 18:39:34 <Ammler> so my system doesn't need to fear something 18:39:56 <Ammler> and you download and execute binaries quite seldom 18:40:06 <andythenorth> do you look at images and such? 18:40:11 <andythenorth> or movies etc 18:40:22 <Ammler> they can't hurt on linux 18:40:42 <andythenorth> where do you run them from? 18:40:47 <andythenorth> ~ or equivalent? 18:40:51 <andythenorth> or a sandbox / jail? 18:41:04 <Ammler> well, sandbox if you like 18:41:24 <Ammler> but I don't make sandbox specially for anything 18:41:42 <andythenorth> what would happen if you ran malware posing as say .jpeg? 18:41:49 <Ammler> not possible 18:41:49 <V453000> OH there we go 18:41:55 <V453000> Ammler, there is a typo in the link 18:41:57 <Ammler> andythenorth: that's the point 18:42:08 <V453000> I suppose it is meant to be yum.repos.d 18:42:12 <andythenorth> Ammler: do you scan all files for executable code first? 18:42:14 <V453000> not yum/repis.d 18:42:21 <Ammler> andythenorth: not necessary :-) 18:42:25 <V453000> *yum/repos.d is written in the link 18:42:31 * andythenorth is learning 18:42:42 <V453000> I just found yum.repos.d since some other guide pointed to that 18:42:50 <andythenorth> Ammler: what causes it to be not necessary? 18:42:55 <Ammler> andythenorth: I always thought, such things do only hurt windows 18:43:16 <andythenorth> they only hurt the OS that they're a valid attack vector for 18:43:25 <andythenorth> their are attack vectors for numerous *nix 18:43:33 <Ammler> please show me such file for linux 18:43:53 <andythenorth> concept empiricism :) 18:43:55 <Ammler> I am using linux just around 10 years now, never saw something like that 18:44:05 <andythenorth> you won't see it until it's too late :D 18:44:18 <Ammler> no, I don't see it because it isn't possible 18:44:24 <Ammler> you can't do such file for linux 18:44:48 <Ammler> but of course it is easy to hack a linux 18:45:01 <andythenorth> Ammler: linux is just code yes / no :o 18:45:05 <Ammler> yes 18:45:09 <andythenorth> it's not magic :) 18:45:48 <Ammler> again, show me such a bad file 18:46:04 <Ammler> you sound like you experienced something like that 18:46:20 <andythenorth> if you execute malware as 'ammler' you can still lose part of userland - including other running apps, and your files 18:46:29 <andythenorth> you might not lose the kernel or the root filesystem 18:46:31 <Ammler> yep, of course 18:46:44 <Ammler> but on windows, you lose the whole system 18:46:52 <Ammler> or on osx 18:47:05 <andythenorth> dubious claim 18:47:06 <Ammler> since you say, you run stay as root 18:47:45 <andythenorth> I'm not familiar with windows, but I thought that the design of Windows from NT onwards was significantly more secure 18:47:55 <andythenorth> the implementation might not be .... but the design was afaik 18:48:05 <Ammler> yep, now you make a kind of sudo 18:48:19 <andythenorth> OS X you'd lose about the same as any other *nix 18:48:22 <andythenorth> basically userland 18:48:24 <planetmaker> Ammler: on OSX there is no root 18:48:30 <andythenorth> well there is 18:48:36 <planetmaker> for every root-requirement you use sudo 18:48:40 <andythenorth> but you have to enable it with directory tools or such 18:48:48 <planetmaker> or the OS asks you for the root password 18:48:52 <andythenorth> but if you sudo then run malware, you're just as screwed :) 18:49:01 <V453000> shall I download the noarch or src version of nml? 18:49:42 <planetmaker> but OSX makes it slightly easier to mix user land and root land 18:49:57 <Ammler> V453000: you should use yum 18:50:06 <V453000> ah, so just through the commands 18:50:06 <planetmaker> as for normal installs the system just asks your for the PW and the unaware user might just go for 'here it is' and then the malheur happend 18:50:08 <Ammler> then you have resolved the dependencies automatically 18:50:18 <Ammler> after that I would recommend to use nml repo 18:50:21 <planetmaker> it's slightly more obvious (to me) how it works on suse 18:50:37 <V453000> so doing just cd /etc/yum/repos.d/ wget http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:openttdcoop/Fedora_15/home:openttdcoop.repo yum install nml is enough, right? 18:51:00 <Ammler> andythenorth: you seriously would do "sudo unknownbin" ? 18:51:05 <andythenorth> yes 18:51:10 <Ammler> well then :-D 18:51:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth: why would you do that? 18:51:27 <andythenorth> those were someone's instructions for installing nml for starters 18:51:31 <andythenorth> when I was stuck due to python issues 18:51:34 <Ammler> but you do not think, that is a matter of os? 18:51:42 <andythenorth> I was quite grumpy that I had to do that at the time 18:51:43 <planetmaker> who instructed to do that? 18:51:46 <andythenorth> don't recall 18:51:47 <Ammler> the issue is that windows does that without you knowing it 18:51:57 <Ammler> or maybe osx does that too 18:52:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker: lots of installers ask for OS X admin password 18:52:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I know 18:52:14 <andythenorth> do you itch every time? 18:52:30 <planetmaker> because /Applications is the same as linux' /bin or /usr/bin - which is root writable only 18:52:31 <andythenorth> every time I do it, I think 'so this is how you get pwned' 18:52:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I certainly don't install every app 18:53:06 <andythenorth> the ones that install kext bother me :P 18:53:12 <andythenorth> I have no idea what some of them do 18:53:16 <planetmaker> kext? 18:53:21 <andythenorth> kernel extensions 18:53:24 <planetmaker> ah 18:53:37 <andythenorth> could easily be keystroke logger, or IP traffic sniffer 18:53:45 <Ammler> installing something outside of ~ is very seldom wihtout the package manager 18:53:50 <Ammler> almost impossible 18:54:03 <andythenorth> or even video / screen capture - but then we'd see insane disk space bloat + cpu use 18:54:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how do I know whether an application is a kernel extension, normal or malicious? 18:55:15 <andythenorth> read the source :P 18:55:26 <andythenorth> you basically have no idea 18:55:33 <andythenorth> it would be an easy attack vector 18:56:02 <andythenorth> there's already drive-by malware for OS X 18:56:25 <andythenorth> I got hit by drive-by download, but I'd already turned off Safari's stupid 'open files' setting 18:56:49 <andythenorth> I don't check md5 sums or anything to see if a binary is what it says it is 18:57:00 <andythenorth> nor do >large number of mac users I guess 18:57:28 <andythenorth> just build a malicious ottd and you'd get me :P 18:57:52 <andythenorth> write a StealMyCreditCardsAndUseMyMacAsAnOpenMailRelay.app 18:57:56 <andythenorth> call it openttd.app 18:57:59 <andythenorth> I'd run it :P 18:58:02 <Ammler> would be useless, if I would infect such a binary, I wouls also be sure the md5sum is updated ;-) 18:58:15 <andythenorth> Ammler: you are very diligent 18:58:37 <andythenorth> do you check md5 sums on installs by package manager? 18:59:11 <Ammler> those are signed 18:59:38 <Ammler> installing rpms is much more secure as installing from upstream 18:59:47 <andythenorth> it would be an interesting attack vector 19:00:15 <planetmaker> all that mostly is social engineering: making people believe it's trustworthy while it's not 19:00:17 <andythenorth> assume that someone controlling the distro for a module decided to make some extra cash 19:00:21 <Ammler> I could infect the openttd binaries for suse :-) 19:00:27 <andythenorth> + that any reviewers had a slow day 19:00:52 <andythenorth> if you quietly infected a small, commonly used, library, you could probably gain quite alot 19:01:03 <planetmaker> http://lwn.net/Articles/262688/ <-- like that 19:01:04 <Webster> Title: The backdooring of SquirrelMail [LWN.net] (at lwn.net) 19:01:06 <andythenorth> probably wouldn't be found for months/years 19:01:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: exactly :) 19:01:44 <planetmaker> ah, open source is hard to stay undetected for years 19:01:50 <planetmaker> but yes, still 19:02:26 <andythenorth> many eyes makes shallow bugs - true, but there aren't *that* many competent eyes looking 19:02:27 <andythenorth> :D 19:03:55 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2406 (Closed): CS4000 - Arctic Sprites (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2406#change-7261 19:03:55 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 686:b96817809025: Fix #2406: new sprites for arctic CS4000 (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/b96817809025 19:04:46 <planetmaker> that is quite true, andythenorth... 19:05:13 <V453000> uhm ... is there any way to install gimp with some one-click installer ? 19:05:20 <planetmaker> yum install gimp? 19:05:33 <planetmaker> that's what a package manager is for... 19:05:46 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22711 to r22712 done (6 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r22712 19:05:53 <andythenorth> I should learn to use macports properly 19:06:04 <andythenorth> it always whines at me about package definitions being out of date 19:06:05 <planetmaker> sudo port install gimp ;-) 19:06:13 <planetmaker> sudo port selfupdate 19:06:20 <andythenorth> ^ another place I distrust sudo :P 19:06:23 <planetmaker> that helps a lot ;-) 19:06:37 <planetmaker> well, it's the same as you dragging an app to the app folder 19:06:52 <planetmaker> same extend of modification 19:07:05 <andythenorth> except that if sudo port install MyNastyApp it can execute 19:07:11 <andythenorth> unless ports sandboxes it? 19:07:26 <V453000> oh 19:07:28 <planetmaker> no, but port never executes a programme. It only installs it 19:07:29 <V453000> what the :D 19:07:43 <Ammler> V453000: just remember, never install something without yum 19:07:46 <andythenorth> so there would have to be a bug in ports for that to be an attack vector 19:07:54 <V453000> oh, that sounds valuable, thanks Ammler :d 19:07:57 <planetmaker> yes. A compromised ports would do the trick 19:07:58 <V453000> :) 19:08:19 <Ammler> and yum is maybe the only reason for root :-) 19:08:20 <planetmaker> my macports downloads also all the sources and then compiles the stuff 19:08:29 <planetmaker> though I think one can get binary for some things 19:08:32 <andythenorth> we should have a bet on who gets compromised first in this channel 19:08:42 <andythenorth> I'll put €0.5 on the table 19:08:46 <andythenorth> dunno who to choose though 19:08:54 <andythenorth> betting on myself is too easy to rig 19:08:54 <planetmaker> well. I know for sure that our lab computers get compromised regularily ;-) 19:09:15 <andythenorth> I'm probably compromised now 19:09:25 <andythenorth> according to a leaflet through my door I have all the signs 19:09:29 <andythenorth> 'broadband slow' 19:09:34 <andythenorth> 'computer running slower' 19:09:39 <andythenorth> 'applications crashing' 19:09:43 <andythenorth> 'wifi dropping out' 19:09:53 <Ammler> andythenorth: I could place everything I have around ;-) 19:09:56 <andythenorth> 'For £30 / hour we'll remove all viruses and spyware' 19:10:21 <Ammler> I invest £0 for virus fighting 19:10:27 <andythenorth> Ammler: I actually do place that bet 24 hours a day 19:10:35 <andythenorth> mostly the bet is on FreeBSD and some people I employ 19:10:39 <andythenorth> although some of it is Linux 19:10:41 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22711 to r22712 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22712 19:10:45 <Ammler> well, I do make backups 19:10:57 <planetmaker> you also run FreeBSD at your company? 19:10:59 <andythenorth> in theory, if we screw up badly enough, I go to prison && go bankrupt 19:11:16 <andythenorth> so I take an interest in attack vectors :P 19:11:20 <V453000> wow, that is quite awesome 19:11:21 <Ammler> FreeBSD is of course not that secure as linux :-P 19:11:22 <planetmaker> :-) 19:11:29 <V453000> =D 19:11:29 <planetmaker> Ammler: not? 19:11:43 <Ammler> just fooling :-P 19:11:54 <planetmaker> you should argue with fjb ;-) 19:12:11 <Ammler> well, FreeBSD is a bit related to OSX, afaik 19:12:20 <V453000> is there any list of programs that yum knows? 19:12:24 <planetmaker> they have common ancestors 19:12:29 <planetmaker> yum list? 19:12:36 <planetmaker> or something 19:12:39 <Ammler> V453000: it is easier to list programs, yum doesn't know 19:12:58 <V453000> right :D 19:13:09 <planetmaker> yep, ammler's right there. That's the BIG comfort 19:13:14 <V453000> now that is fun 19:13:24 <planetmaker> you bascially can install 99.5% of the needed things with the package manager 19:13:28 <FooBar> V453000: go to Applications > System Tools > Add/Remove Software. That will give you a list 19:13:40 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Security 19:13:41 <Ammler> well, I have suse in mind and transplant that to Fedora, but that should be ok 19:13:41 <Webster> Title: FreeBSD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 19:13:42 <planetmaker> only if you really need development versions you might need a way around 19:14:29 <andythenorth> Ammler: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/03/01/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-february-2011.html 19:14:30 <Webster> Title: Most Reliable Hosting Company Sites in February 2011 | Netcraft (at news.netcraft.com) 19:15:28 <Ammler> :-P 19:15:34 <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22711 to r22712 done (10 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/r22712 19:15:38 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2421 (Closed): MJS 1000 Sprites for Arctic (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2421#change-7262 19:15:38 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 687:2761b8f558a2: Fix #2421: new sprites for arctic MJS 1000 (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/2761b8f558a2 19:15:43 * andythenorth ponders 19:15:49 <andythenorth> chat 19:15:52 <andythenorth> or code 19:17:26 <andythenorth> or migrate my mac 19:17:28 <andythenorth> latter 19:17:29 <andythenorth> bbl 19:17:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:17:43 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22712 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r22712 19:21:25 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 688:1b44e3268b1f: Feature #2405: new sprites for arctic CS2400 (DanMacK, previ... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/1b44e3268b1f 19:22:57 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #2405 (Closed): CS2400-Arctic Sprites (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2405#change-7263 19:23:20 <V453000> right, so now that I have Fedora finally, I suppose I should do the guides again, installing tortoise etc, right? 19:24:48 <Ammler> well, you should do at least the linux part 19:24:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:25:03 <Ammler> and yes, tortoisehg is also available for linux 19:26:09 <andythenorth> hmm 19:26:16 <andythenorth> do I *need* 8GB RAM 19:26:17 <andythenorth> ? 19:26:27 <Ammler> around 2 is fine enough 19:26:45 <Ammler> but for graphics work, it could be good to have more 19:26:47 <V453000> yum yum yum 19:26:53 <andythenorth> it's not like I hit swap very often 19:27:00 <andythenorth> although photoshop is greedy 19:27:07 <andythenorth> ho 19:27:19 <andythenorth> do you guys browse the forums on the default theme? 19:27:34 <andythenorth> I turned it off years ago 19:27:38 <andythenorth> isn't it quaint 19:27:48 <FooBar> I use TTD theme 19:27:57 <FooBar> if that's what you mean by default, then yes :) 19:28:09 <Ammler> is there another? 19:28:13 <FooBar> default could also be the thing that comes with phpbb by default 19:29:22 <andythenorth> I use silver-something 19:29:33 <FooBar> subsilver? 19:29:36 <andythenorth> probly 19:29:48 * andythenorth is reduced to irc while he migrates computers 19:29:55 <andythenorth> I can't draw or code anything :P 19:29:58 <FooBar> I believe that's what it was called when I played with phpbb 19:30:04 <FooBar> but that's years ago 19:30:13 <Ammler> oh, you see us as reduction :'-( 19:36:13 <V453000> is it just me or are all the guides just for windows? :D 19:36:54 <Ammler> because linux is selfexplaining 19:37:00 <frosch123> [21:26] <andythenorth> do I *need* 8GB RAM <- are you running any vms? 19:37:02 <Ammler> but don't hesitate to ask 19:37:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth: do you do excessive image processing? 19:37:33 <V453000> selfexplaining ... I have no clue what to do :D 19:37:50 <Ammler> then you might be done 19:38:26 <V453000> probably not I just downloaded the stuff you sent me the link to and tortoisehg 19:38:34 <V453000> dont even tell me that is all 19:38:36 <V453000> :D 19:38:46 <Ammler> I hope, you used yum for all? 19:38:51 <V453000> sure thing 19:39:14 <Ammler> then yes, you are done 19:39:27 <Ammler> now do as user a hg clone <yourproject> 19:39:41 <Ammler> with Gonsole 19:39:46 <V453000> :D 19:39:51 <V453000> ok 19:39:55 <Ammler> or how that is called on gnome 19:40:10 <V453000> terminal you mean 19:40:10 <Ammler> maybe Terminal 19:40:14 <Ammler> :-) 19:40:46 <planetmaker> you first might want to create an openttd subdir - in which all openttd related bullshit goes 19:40:53 <andythenorth> frosch123: no vms 19:40:54 <planetmaker> For some reason it's one of my biggest subdirs... 19:40:58 <V453000> :D 19:41:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: me too 19:41:26 <andythenorth> if you included my insane multiple checkouts of svn as well :P 19:41:35 <planetmaker> of course I do :-) 19:41:36 <andythenorth> it's about 4GB 19:44:21 <V453000> no repository found in /home/V453000 (.hg not found!) 19:44:23 <Ammler> you still have svn checkouts? 19:44:26 <V453000> how do I create that? 19:44:42 <Ammler> what did you try to run? 19:45:03 <V453000> hg pull -u 19:45:15 <Ammler> cd to the project first :-) 19:45:35 <andythenorth> why is Safari downloading faster on a new mac 19:45:40 <V453000> oh 19:45:42 <andythenorth> still the same wifi / isp :P 19:45:42 <V453000> x.x 19:45:50 <andythenorth> probably user error 19:45:57 <Ammler> or better cache handling 19:45:58 <andythenorth> "I think it's faster, therefore it must be" 19:46:04 <andythenorth> true 19:46:20 <andythenorth> I don't trust the IO on my old laptop 19:46:26 <andythenorth> I think the disk is slowly dying 19:46:32 <V453000> hmm 19:46:46 <V453000> do I need to create some special directory for that? 19:46:53 <andythenorth> oh 19:46:57 <andythenorth> also it's a whole new OS :P 19:47:00 <V453000> or do whatever else before using pull 19:47:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so 10.6 is *faster* than 10.5? :O 19:47:33 <Ammler> V453000: [21:39] <Ammler> now do as user a hg clone <yourproject> 19:48:34 <V453000> yeah 19:48:57 <V453000> I did hg clone http:/hg.openttdcoop.org/ur-trains 19:49:23 <V453000> oh wait 19:49:51 <V453000> no changes found 19:49:58 <V453000> guess that is correct when pulling :) 19:50:08 <planetmaker> yup. Or can be :-) 19:52:28 <V453000> Pull-Merge-Push what does this mean? 19:52:45 <V453000> or ... what does this substitute [possible merge] 19:54:47 <planetmaker> it means if the repo has things you don't have and you have things the repo doesn't have 19:54:55 <planetmaker> Then you have to merge the two changes somehow 19:55:08 <V453000> ooh 19:56:16 <planetmaker> like if I now added something and pushed it. You meanwhile also added something 19:56:29 <V453000> hmmm I tried hg add ../Slug01_small02.png which is the file in the upper folder I wanted to add and it said not under root ... so I did it as root and it told me Not trusting file .hg/hgrc from untrusted user V453000 19:56:34 <V453000> and in the end it told me not under root 19:56:40 <planetmaker> then you pulled. And... yeah, you got two changes which have the same "parent". Thus based on the same state 19:56:47 <planetmaker> of course not 19:56:54 <planetmaker> why would you need to run it as root :-) 19:57:08 <V453000> that is what I wondered myself 19:57:15 <V453000> but ... how does it work then 19:57:41 <Ammler> hmm 19:57:50 <Ammler> didn't I tell you? 19:58:00 <V453000> I hope you didnt 19:58:04 <Ammler> _never_ use root :-) 19:58:15 <planetmaker> V453000: no, I didn't 19:58:17 <V453000> but what if that bastardous thing asks for it :D 19:58:24 <planetmaker> Even if I could, I should not. 19:58:34 <planetmaker> unless you ask me ;-) 19:58:41 <V453000> pm: wha? 19:58:49 <planetmaker> or make me also project developer ;-) 19:58:58 <Ammler> V453000: I am not aware any tool asking for it 19:59:04 <V453000> oh, ok :) 19:59:15 <planetmaker> (but I have enough things to do at the moment, tbh...) 19:59:27 <Ammler> except maybe rpm, but then you know why 19:59:38 <planetmaker> though I could of course also occasionally update the build system, if needed - and if you use 'mine' 19:59:45 <planetmaker> apropos build system... 20:00:02 <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm considering to put the newgrf makefile under the modified BSD license instead of GPL 20:00:05 <Ammler> well, since he uses linux, it should be no issue 20:00:16 <planetmaker> that'd make it more accessible... 20:00:23 <planetmaker> e.g. for CC-BY projects or so 20:00:28 <Ammler> your software :-P 20:00:37 <Ammler> (I wouldn't) 20:01:05 <Ammler> there is no need to support such licenses, imo 20:01:16 <planetmaker> CC-BY? 20:01:25 <Ammler> you can do that individually 20:01:32 <V453000> planetmaker: now you are officially NUTS 20:01:48 <planetmaker> ach... many people just hack together a newgrf, upload it, and forget. That's it. They'd be safe then ;-) 20:01:48 <Ammler> yes, it gives the look, you recommend such license then 20:02:31 <Ammler> people which hack together a grf don't use your framework anyway 20:02:46 <Ammler> but as said, your software :-) 20:03:06 <Ammler> my committs there are for your usage 20:03:17 <V453000> hmf 20:03:46 <Ammler> is there a limit someone needs to contribute, until you need to ask? 20:03:47 <V453000> I even thought that I set wrong path to the file previously (which I accidentally did) but when I corrected it it just says not under root again 20:03:56 <V453000> how to ... run the hg add ? 20:04:11 <planetmaker> hg add path/to/filename? 20:04:21 <Ammler> V453000: run hg status first 20:04:25 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #2053 (Closed): Arctic Railcars - Revised to 28px (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2053#change-7264 20:04:25 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 689:1384481c865a: Feature: revised arctic railcars (DanMack) (closes #2053) (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/1384481c865a 20:04:27 <Ammler> and check, what it would add 20:04:42 <Ammler> if everything is fine to add, you can run hg addremove 20:04:50 <V453000> hg status did not give any output 20:04:57 <Ammler> then there is nothing to add? 20:05:05 <V453000> hmf :d 20:07:13 <V453000> oh wait 20:07:17 <V453000> I am so god damn dumb 20:08:32 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:08:35 <V453000> yey, finally 20:08:37 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 690:b13c6b0c4b1b: Fix: remove action colours from arctic_engines.png (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/b13c6b0c4b1b 20:08:44 <V453000> do not even try to guess where was the issue :D 20:12:10 <V453000> hg commit -m "some commit message text" -> no username supplied 20:12:46 <V453000> I knew I did not set that up anywhere ... where do I set that up? in windows I edited the mercurial.ini, is here something like that? 20:13:17 <planetmaker> ~/.hgrc 20:13:17 <Hirundo> hg help config will tell you 20:13:28 <planetmaker> might not (yet) exist 20:14:32 <V453000> does not exist indeed, what should I do with it when I create it ? 20:22:13 <FooBar> open it with a text editor and put something in similar to this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Configuring_TortoiseHg_%28Windows%29#All-changes-to-Mercurialini 20:22:16 <V453000> hmm, what should the file have? I read that if it contains just a *, then it accepts all users 20:22:38 <V453000> oh, okay, so the hgrc is my info 20:22:53 <FooBar> .hgrc on linux is what mercurial.ini is on windows 20:23:46 <Ammler> V453000: you do not need to add trusted 20:23:47 <V453000> ok :) that is what I did not know 20:23:49 <Ammler> just user 20:23:58 <Ammler> ui.user 20:25:37 <V453000> the . in the beginning means that it is something like a hidden file? 20:26:12 <FooBar> yes 20:26:52 <Ammler> ls does not show those except you use -a 20:27:13 <V453000> what is a command for opening in some text editor? 20:27:18 <V453000> I knew vim 20:27:26 <Ammler> use gui 20:27:39 <Ammler> kate or whatever 20:27:43 <Ammler> some here use geany 20:28:47 <V453000> well gui ... I tried to use gedit but it could not see the hidden thing :) 20:28:49 <Ammler> using linux does not mean, using console only 20:29:19 <V453000> oh, got it 20:29:19 <Ammler> I would recommend geany, as that has a highlighter for nml 20:30:58 <V453000> [auth] devzone.prefix = push.openttdcoop.org leave this as it is ? 20:31:06 <V453000> devzone.shemes = https and this 20:31:23 <Ammler> you already asked 20:31:36 <Ammler> do not ask until you get issues 20:31:37 <V453000> I know but I do not have that saved here, sorry 20:32:05 <Ammler> asking on purpose is timewaste 20:32:27 <andythenorth> are we short of time? :) 20:32:32 <Ammler> always 20:32:37 <andythenorth> he 20:32:41 <Ammler> specially you 20:32:48 <Ammler> me never 20:32:48 <andythenorth> I waste a lot of time 20:33:01 <andythenorth> time wasting + impatience 20:33:14 <V453000> :D 20:33:26 <Ammler> andythenorth: well, feel free to answer his question :-P 20:33:57 <andythenorth> I don't recognise that bit of hgrc 20:34:08 <V453000> okay, the hg commit -m "messageee" looks like it ate the command 20:34:08 <andythenorth> I just have default-push iirc 20:34:18 <V453000> but I cannot say I know where to find the result :D 20:34:26 <Ammler> hg log 20:35:07 <V453000> right but what does that do, move the file to the repository on the devzone? 20:35:15 <andythenorth> no 20:35:16 <V453000> with the comment 20:35:20 <V453000> uh :) 20:35:22 <andythenorth> commits are local 20:35:25 <andythenorth> unlike svn 20:35:29 <V453000> oh 20:35:31 <andythenorth> hg push will...push 20:35:38 <andythenorth> but you should use hg pull -u first 20:35:41 <andythenorth> or similar 20:35:50 <Ammler> that you use before commit 20:35:51 <andythenorth> otherwise you *will* have merges 20:35:52 <V453000> I see, so now I push the things to put the file to the repository with the comment 20:35:58 <andythenorth> and ammler *will* tell you off 20:36:14 <Ammler> yep, try push 20:36:54 <andythenorth> hmm 20:37:06 <andythenorth> wonder how to copy /etc, /bin and such 20:37:12 <andythenorth> could rsync them 20:37:17 <andythenorth> only take newest 20:37:21 <Ammler> :-o 20:37:31 <Ammler> I have /etc as hg repo 20:37:32 <planetmaker> uhm... not sure they should be synced, andythenorth 20:37:37 <V453000> SHIT it works :D 20:37:37 <V453000> :D 20:37:37 <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Revision 0:26c134ac17ba: messageeee (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ur-trains/repository/revisions/26c134ac17ba 20:37:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: me neither 20:37:53 <V453000> thank you for your patience :P 20:37:55 <andythenorth> I have _some_ stuff I've added, but not sure where 20:37:57 <Ammler> Brot6: you could have used sandbox for playing 20:38:05 <Ammler> V453000: I meant 20:38:05 <andythenorth> like macports, python installs etc 20:38:14 <andythenorth> might be in /usr 20:38:15 <andythenorth> or /var 20:38:16 <andythenorth> or such 20:38:22 <planetmaker> ports? 20:38:23 <V453000> sandbox? 20:38:24 <andythenorth> no idea really :P 20:38:29 <Ammler> test project 20:38:37 <Ammler> to push/pull and play around 20:38:41 <V453000> oh ... does it spoil the project too much? :) 20:38:43 <Ammler> you can remove that commit anymore 20:38:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: /opt/local 20:38:52 <Ammler> V453000: it is your project 20:38:55 <Ammler> just mentioned 20:38:57 <V453000> hmmm :) 20:39:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've been upgrading / migrating this OS since OS X beta, so it has a lot of....accretion 20:39:14 <planetmaker> :-O 20:39:16 <V453000> I guess one started does not hurt :) 20:39:23 <andythenorth> yeah 20:39:27 <andythenorth> time to put an end to that 20:40:01 <V453000> I guess it is wise to write a script to help me there so I do not have to memorize it all, right :) 20:41:11 <V453000> anyway, I will be going :) waking up very early.. good night and thank you :) 20:41:34 <planetmaker> g'night V453000 20:41:43 <V453000> good night pm :) 20:42:26 <V453000> btw you are developer of NUTS, I said it before but not sure if you noticed :P 20:42:58 <planetmaker> I did. I'm just not sure what I should make of that ;-) 20:44:04 <V453000> dunno you asked for it :P 20:47:50 <planetmaker> you misunderstood me there ;-) 20:48:03 <V453000> how come ? :O 20:48:36 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #1983 (Closed): 28px temperate rail wagons (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1983#change-7265 20:48:36 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 691:710acb803d04: Feature: revised temperate rail wagons (DanMack) (closes #1983) (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/710acb803d04 20:56:09 <andythenorth> bed time 20:56:10 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:03:13 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 692:c632c47088dd: Codechange: rename some files to clarify their status (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/c632c47088dd 21:05:25 *** FooBar has quit IRC 21:06:19 <planetmaker> hm... Foobar... 21:06:28 <planetmaker> the 88 had a sense - and he left ;-) 21:07:09 <Ammler> 8/8? 21:12:15 <planetmaker> yes 21:14:28 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2884: passenger wagons (michi_cc) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2884#change-7266 21:56:15 *** Lakie has quit IRC 22:03:14 *** bodis has quit IRC 22:14:50 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:23:33 *** JVassie has quit IRC 22:52:37 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923 (New): Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923 23:01:55 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924 (New): Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924 23:01:58 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7267 23:03:09 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924 (New): Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924 23:03:18 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7268 23:05:45 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7270 23:06:39 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7271 23:07:16 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7270 23:09:30 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7272 23:11:44 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7273 23:16:59 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7274 23:23:24 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923: Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7275 23:25:07 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7276 23:29:40 <Ammler> ticket chat :-) 23:30:15 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923 (Closed): Can't run 2 instances (Sc00by22) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923 23:30:15 <Brot6> Autopilot - Bug #2923 (Closed): Can't run 2 instances (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2923#change-7277 23:51:33 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7281 23:52:38 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7281 23:54:30 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7281 23:55:10 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7281