Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 11th August 2011:
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00:07:14  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 206:861280644608: moved some files around resp. deleted old ones, changed tra... (oberhuemer) @
00:07:14  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 207:cfdbff435f8f: More offset corrections on slopes & bridges (oberhuemer) @
00:07:14  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 208:f2538f6dead4: Added tag 1.1.2 for changeset cfdbff435f8f (oberhuemer) @
00:09:38  <Brot6> nutracks: update from 1.1.1 to 1.1.2 done (2 warnings) -
00:10:54  <Brot6> Nutracks - Feature #2956 (Closed): Change look of "track planning" (oberhuemer) @
00:10:54  <Brot6> Nutracks - Feature #2956 (Closed): Change look of "track planning" (oberhuemer) @
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09:50:56  <planetmaker> <-- is there anything oviously wrong?
10:17:25  <Hirundo> we use YMD date format here :)
10:18:13  <Hirundo> why NML doesn't complain about that puzzles me, though
10:19:34  <planetmaker> he...
10:22:22  <planetmaker> probably it doesn't validate arguments at all as they could be run-time variables
10:23:04  <Hirundo> month and day cannot
10:23:30  <planetmaker> oh?
10:24:15  <planetmaker> any reason?
10:25:32  <Hirundo> doing a month+day -> days conversion requires some sort of lookup table and / or iteration
10:26:00  <Hirundo> getting that in NFO is possible but not trivial
10:27:50  <planetmaker> ok, so far just tmwftlg
10:28:03  <planetmaker> I don't need it now either :-)
10:29:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2335:427f32ca3ad2: Fix: Availability dates got lost (planetmaker) @
10:30:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1598:ab35d7bf8967: Add: Range checks for the date(...) function t... (Hirundo) @
10:37:17  <planetmaker> thanks also for looking at it :-)
10:37:40  <planetmaker> I stared at it for dunno how long and didn't see it
10:47:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2336:e18c9d8b86c8: Codechange: Coal mine uses templates ... (planetmaker) @
10:57:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2961 (Closed): availability dates not respected (planetmaker) @
10:57:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2961 (Closed): availability dates not respected (planetmaker) @
11:52:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2337:503d3bb6df33: Codechange: Remove deprecated callbac... (planetmaker) @
12:19:09  <planetmaker> Hirundo: an idea how I could well reference / implement referencing TTD strings in NML?
12:19:25  <planetmaker> like the default production change messages?
12:21:03  <Hirundo> As a CB result, or a property?
12:21:08  <planetmaker> property
12:21:22  <Hirundo> hmm... lemme see
12:21:25  <planetmaker> just stating 0x4833 as property value is... ugly
12:22:41  <planetmaker> but less ugly than the current 18488 ;-)
12:28:23  <Hirundo> 0x4833 would be STR_NEWS_INDUSTRY_CLOSURE_SUPPLY_PROBLEMS
12:29:05  <Hirundo> in OpenTTD that is, not in NMl
12:29:32  <planetmaker> hm, NML should try to use the same string names then
12:30:28  <Hirundo> should the names be the same, or should NML add some prefix to avoid confusion with user-defined strings?
12:31:09  <planetmaker> TTD ?
12:31:19  <planetmaker> prefix would be good IMHO
12:32:21  <planetmaker> well, why not, yes
12:32:49  <Hirundo> I need to inventsome conversion script/procedure for this to avoid typing my hands off :P
12:33:27  <Ammler> poor non linux user :-P
12:33:50  <planetmaker> :-D
12:34:34  <planetmaker> Hirundo: would I also reference them as string(TTD_STR...)?
12:34:35  <Hirundo> notepad++ has regex search/replace, add a python shell and I'll come a long way :)
12:34:49  <planetmaker> sed can also be your friend ;-)
13:02:40  <Brot6> Unable to connect to execution expired
13:25:35  <Terkhen> I use sed for that too, yes
13:26:00  <Hirundo> planetmaker: Shall I include the TTD string ID in the documentation, for easier conversion?
13:26:01  <planetmaker> industry code seems to be fully templated unless I missed an industry
13:26:13  <planetmaker> Hirundo: no
13:26:24  <planetmaker> we agreed that it's not a good thing ;-)
13:26:41  <planetmaker> the names are somewhat speaking for themselves.
13:26:53  <Terkhen> wow, 67 changesets in FIRS :O
13:26:56  <planetmaker> and I can read sources
13:27:04  <planetmaker> you were / are right there
13:27:09  <Terkhen> I thought that I only missed two days, have I been away for a month? :P
13:27:16  <planetmaker> :-)
13:27:40  <Terkhen> I'll finish brickworks and then address the dairy and machine shop
13:27:40  <planetmaker> I finished or borked industry code. Depends on view :-P
13:27:54  <Terkhen> as long as it looks nice, conversion is done
13:28:01  <Terkhen> bug fixing is a different task ;)
13:28:08  <planetmaker> though still the property cleanup (strings) needs doing, but that's somewhat minor
13:28:24  <planetmaker> sed can do that, too :-)
13:31:03  <planetmaker> templating the whole spritesets is also not that easy or straight forward, is what I thought when I risked a short glimps. I hope I'm wrong ;-)
13:33:33  <Terkhen> hmmm... is templating spritesets really needed?
13:34:00  <Terkhen> <--- as a list they look organized enough already IMO
13:34:15  <Ammler> <-- planetmaker, doesn't this force a release?
13:35:19  <planetmaker> the invisible wagon?
13:35:27  <Terkhen> planetmaker: nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/recycling_plant.pnml", line 132: year out of range 0..5000000, encountered -1
13:35:27  <Ammler> yes :-)
13:35:40  <Terkhen> this error was not there last time I worked on FIRS :P
13:35:58  <planetmaker> Ammler: in principle yes... But I wanted to wait for FooBar's run
13:36:09  <Hirundo> Terkhen: I added a range check today after pm mixed up the date format
13:36:38  <planetmaker> hm...
13:36:46  <planetmaker> I wonder why I haven't seen that error
13:36:46  <Terkhen> oh, ok
13:37:00  <Terkhen> planetmaker: missing nml update?
13:37:12  <planetmaker> I don't think so... but let's pull
13:37:29  * Terkhen has no clue of the "right" opening date
13:37:43  <planetmaker> oil refinery? 1908
13:37:50  <planetmaker> oh... recycling plant... 1997
13:37:53  <Terkhen> the one with the error is the recycling plant
13:38:26  <Terkhen> oh, the date with the error is maxyear
13:38:34  <Terkhen> 0xFF...F then
13:38:50  <planetmaker> hm...
13:39:17  <planetmaker> it *shouldn't* be with maxyear
13:40:00  <planetmaker> as I set 5000000 as default
13:40:03  <Terkhen> CHECK_OPENING(action2_7164, 1998, -1)
13:40:09  <planetmaker> templates/check_availability.pnml
13:40:23  <Terkhen> there is a CHECK_OPENING template on templates/industry_templates.pnml
13:40:45  <planetmaker> he... that should not be used anymore ;-)
13:41:16  <Terkhen> :)
13:41:41  <Terkhen> if it is more complex than fixing template arguments I'll leave the fix to you; you'll know better than me how to fix it :P
13:42:15  <planetmaker> o_O
13:42:26  <planetmaker> leave it to me, I messed it up.
13:42:35  <planetmaker> Probably it's cutting out code only ,though
13:42:52  <Terkhen> ok, thank you :)
13:42:57  <planetmaker> ah... no. It's two industries in one file :-)
13:43:05  <planetmaker> recycling_depot in recycling_plant file
13:43:10  <planetmaker> I only looked for one
13:43:37  <planetmaker> but yes, I'm on to it
13:44:49  <Terkhen> oh
13:44:53  <Terkhen> those should probably be split then too
13:45:13  <planetmaker> yup
13:55:08  <planetmaker> strike. Of course the recycling depot is special in at least two ways...
13:55:27  <planetmaker> primary industry without input cargo. And a special location check...
13:57:21  <planetmaker> though... maybe not for location, or it doesn't matter there
13:57:40  <Terkhen> :P
14:05:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1599:6a7f05ea3273: Add: List of default TTD strings (Hirundo) @
14:05:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1600:1ea332301647: Doc: Reference default ttd strings from indust... (Hirundo) @
14:06:26  <planetmaker> and uses undocumented industry var 0x82 in the production code...
14:06:48  <planetmaker> town index
14:07:25  <Terkhen> heh, why?
14:07:35  <planetmaker> production based on town population
14:07:39  <planetmaker> probably
14:08:03  <planetmaker> at least in the output var it is an input
14:08:18  <Terkhen> why is town index needed for that? it should be able to access the population variable directly
14:08:22  <Terkhen> via parent scope
14:08:27  <planetmaker> yep
14:08:34  <Terkhen> oh, 0x82 is population
14:08:58  <planetmaker> eh, it is?
14:09:04  <Terkhen>
14:09:05  <Webster> Title: VariationalAction2/Towns - GRFSpecs (at
14:09:30  <planetmaker> hm, I missed the parent scope then
14:09:34  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
14:09:41  <planetmaker> that makes perfect sense
14:10:07  <Terkhen> hmm...
14:10:21  <Terkhen> the brick works is not supposed to look like a coal mine, right?
14:10:41  <Terkhen> oh, I probably broke some switch reference and it is using the "substitute" graphics
14:10:45  <planetmaker> uhm... I don't think so :-)
14:10:54  <planetmaker> in the industry properties?
14:11:05  <planetmaker> or ...?
14:11:40  <Terkhen> I don't know :P
14:11:46  <planetmaker> hm, do I make a production template for this one industry?
14:11:56  <planetmaker> sounds like over-engineered
14:12:02  <Terkhen> IMO it is not necessary
14:12:09  <Terkhen> sounds too unique
14:12:36  <planetmaker> good :-) Then I just keep it and name variables nicer
14:15:13  <planetmaker> hm... towns are not implemented :-P
14:15:25  <Terkhen> town vars?
14:15:36  <planetmaker> yup
14:15:47  <planetmaker> of course I can numerically access them.
14:22:00  <Terkhen> hmm... not my mistake, without my patch the brick works still appear as a coal mine
14:22:05  * Terkhen bisects
14:26:37  <planetmaker> it should compile now, if you pull
14:26:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2338:cd403e313c17: Change: Split recycling plant and rec... (planetmaker) @
14:27:30  <Terkhen> ok, thank you :)
14:36:11  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1601:817b4dd5cef0: Codechange: use 'feature' 0x12 for towns, as i... (Hirundo) @
15:01:42  <planetmaker> <-- Terkhen. This introduces somewhat sensible substitute types. Good? Bad?
15:01:53  <planetmaker> It'll help AIs with station types and maybe vehicle types
15:03:10  <Terkhen> I don't know
15:03:22  <Terkhen> looks fine to me, but you should ask andy too
15:03:41  <Terkhen> I don't remember if there was a reason for substitutes besides that choosing appropiate ones is tiresome
15:04:05  <planetmaker> I think not
15:05:29  <planetmaker> But if not all things are properly defined, it might have an effect as it changes the default properties
15:09:05  <Terkhen> oh, true
15:09:24  <Terkhen> better to leave that patch until we know for sure that all bugs are fixed, otherwise it will just add to the confusion
15:10:08  <planetmaker> well... I somewhat consider it a bug fix, though
15:28:50  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 136:93b55111343e: - Some more train work (krinn) @
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15:47:46  <planetmaker> hm... my sugar refinery looks like a coal mine.
15:48:23  <Terkhen> yes, it is a bug fix
15:48:23  <Terkhen> but it might introduce other bugs that will be difficult to find
15:55:16  <Terkhen> :P
15:55:41  <Terkhen> I'm installing a VM right now to bisect the brick works problem, I can check sugar refineries too once it is done
16:12:29  <planetmaker> there are other industries which show coal, too
16:30:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2339:4f269bc3ac81: Cleanup: Separate different macro typ... (planetmaker) @
16:55:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2340:a32db095b611: Change: Name a few strings (planetmaker) @
17:11:38  <Brot6> nml: update from r1589 to r1601 done -
17:19:57  <Brot6> firs: update from r2326 to r2340 done (37 warnings) -
17:21:26  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r205 to r208 done -
17:22:34  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r248), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), opengfx (r721), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r638), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nml (r1601), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305),
17:22:35  <Brot6> ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r76), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string
17:22:36  <Brot6> (r29), airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71)
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17:24:03  <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) -
17:24:48  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: rebuild of r122 done (Diffsize: 747) (DiffDiffsize: 693) -
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17:42:57  <Brot6> airportsplus: rebuild of r107 done (2 warnings) (Diffsize: 45288) (DiffDiffsize: 48493) -
17:42:58  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 281), foobarstramtracks, cets (436 warnings) (Diffsize: 462), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile, dutchtramset, swisstowns, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 2), frenchtowns, ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 4775), ogfx-landscape (2 warnings) (Diffsize: 1613), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30),
17:42:58  <Brot6> indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 1)
18:43:34  <frosch123> for the general entertainment: i just looked at the grfspecs as mirrored by mb. they are not identical to the last version of the tikiwiki, but got some editorial changes and formatting.
18:44:42  <planetmaker> do you get a history there?
18:44:52  <frosch123> no, it is no wiki, but plain html
18:45:14  <frosch123> i just noticed a formatting which looked uncommon to the old tiki, so i compared the text
18:45:15  <planetmaker> that explains why I don't see a history
18:45:35  <frosch123> he changed the style of notes and footnotes :p
18:46:16  <planetmaker> he also added the new cargo property for vehicles
18:47:47  <frosch123> so i guess dbset will be delayed as he is busy with updating the specs :p
18:48:00  <planetmaker> :-P
18:49:08  <Hirundo> huh... MB released something? where?
18:49:29  <planetmaker> no, no.
18:49:39  <planetmaker> He has the (old) newgrf wiki on his personal page now
18:49:54  <frosch123> and he spents work on it
18:49:55  <planetmaker> or rather the whole ttdpatch wiki probably
18:50:10  <Hirundo> link?
18:50:19  <frosch123> well, the railway dictionary is completely renewed
18:50:23  <frosch123> and there is also a item for m4nfo
18:50:28  <frosch123>
18:50:29  <Webster> Title: The nfo/grf Technical Reference (at
18:52:06  <Hirundo> it still misses the most essential feature: a search box
18:52:23  <frosch123> i wonder whether he will also host grfcrawler when it is discontinued at the end of this year :p
18:53:29  <frosch123> "In TTDPatch, the resulting byte code is even compiled into CPU instructions directly, something which couldn't be accomplished by any script-related approach." <- though i really wonder who invented this myth
18:54:28  <frosch123> hmm, that paragraph is obviously new
18:54:48  <Hirundo> so in the next nitpick argument with MB will start with a discussion on what version of the grf specs is "real"... :S
18:57:09  <michi_cc> That's simple, for OpenTTD it's "our" wiki, for TTDPatch, well... needs any kind of source change first :p
18:57:55  <frosch123> recently mb said, that he awaits a fork of ottd to break the dictatorship of the devs :p
18:58:28  <frosch123> but since everything fork-ish up to today was rather like "trash newgrfs", that won't help him :p
19:00:15  <Rubidium> pff... just point him at all the forks of OpenTTD that are thriving already
19:02:43  <frosch123> which do you mean? the goal servers, the ipad ports or just patchpacks?
19:03:02  <Rubidium> the patch packs ofcourse
19:07:34  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22732 to r22733 done (6 warnings) -
19:08:20  <frosch123> nice timing :p
19:10:38  <planetmaker> :-)
19:12:48  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22732 to r22733 done -
19:17:47  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from r22732 to r22733 done (10 warnings) -
19:20:14  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22733 still failed (#2446) -
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