Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 16th August 2011:
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00:58:35  <Brot6> North American Road Vehicle Set - Bug #2789: DevZone compile failed (oberhuemer) @
05:11:49  *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
05:55:29  <planetmaker> moin
06:56:04  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1613:baa4d240f58e: Change: Add version info the the cargo aging p... (planetmaker) @
07:46:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1614:9249fed95bc2: Add: Version info about adv. sprite layouts an... (planetmaker) @
07:50:44  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2975 (New): rename CB 'slope_check' into 'tile_check' (planetmaker) @
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08:57:55  <Hirundo> planetmaker: #2975 makes sense
08:57:55  <Brot6> Hirundo: planetmaker: #2975 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2975: rename CB 'slope_check' into 'tile_check' - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
08:58:17  <planetmaker> Hi Hirundo
08:58:32  <planetmaker> I'm currently not sure if someone else than myself uses it.
08:58:35  <Hirundo> moin
08:58:36  <planetmaker> FIRS uses it heavily
08:58:56  <planetmaker> but it'd be a simple sed operation. So for the sake of FIRS an alias would probably not be needed.
08:59:13  <planetmaker> Just it should be timed that FIRS build doesn't fail ;-)
09:00:31  <planetmaker> btw, I started to add some version info to NML examples and docs
09:00:51  <planetmaker> People start to stumble over stuff available only since a few weeks ago while testing with stable
09:00:53  <Hirundo> I noticed :)
09:01:15  <planetmaker> I won't add info on OpenTTD < 1.0 though
09:01:29  <planetmaker> nor actually will I look at TTDP versions
09:01:46  <planetmaker> the version "template" certainly could become nicer... I'm not exactly happy with it yet
09:01:57  <Hirundo> I'd start with marking stuff that is 1.2 (nightly) only
09:01:58  <planetmaker> the wiki way with a hidden rev would be nice
09:02:16  <Hirundo> We could migrate the docs to the wiki...
09:02:19  <planetmaker> nah, add the proper rev, if available
09:02:33  <planetmaker> hm... maybe
09:02:36  <planetmaker> tt-wiki?
09:02:43  <Hirundo> yes
09:02:58  <Terkhen> a wiki is easier to edit and maintain, I'd like that too :)
09:02:58  <planetmaker> The bonus currently is that the docs come with NML
09:03:12  <Hirundo> I've been thinking about that for some time
09:03:22  <Hirundo> do they come with NML for win32 users ?
09:03:25  <Terkhen> isn't there any way to download a "static" version of a wiki?
09:03:47  <Hirundo> there was for the old TTDP wiki... I still have an old copy of the grf specs around
09:03:53  <planetmaker> so do I
09:04:29  <Terkhen> that would be nice for nml, bundled binaries from the devzone could download the docs and add them to the bundle
09:04:30  <planetmaker> there is... but it needs a proper dump script. IIRC orudge is working on it
09:04:37  <Terkhen> nice :)
09:04:46  <planetmaker> with whatever speed or priority ;-)
09:04:57  <planetmaker> but it's afaik desired for the newgrf wiki to restore that feature
09:05:07  <Terkhen> Hirundo: I just checked, win32 binaries of NML don't come with the docs
09:05:15  <planetmaker> oh, they do NOT?
09:05:34  <Terkhen> just a bunch of pyd files, a dll and the exe
09:05:45  <planetmaker> hm. Also not the examples?
09:06:03  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder if those are included *anywhere*
09:07:22  <Terkhen> nml checkout? :P
09:07:24  <planetmaker> yes, they do
09:07:32  <planetmaker> even with the normal src bundle
09:08:48  <Hirundo> morning Yexo :)
09:09:01  <Hirundo> Back home again?
09:09:32  <Yexo> morning Hirundo
09:09:36  <Yexo> yes, came back home yesterday
09:09:56  <planetmaker> :-) I hope you had a good, relaxing holiday?
09:10:03  <Hirundo> enjoyed yourself?
09:10:49  <Yexo> I did some voluntary work for 3 weeks, after that one week safari and another week just traveling around (all in Kenia)
09:10:57  <Yexo> had a very good time :D
09:12:14  <planetmaker> wow, sounds awesome :-)
09:16:48  <Terkhen> :)
09:23:12  <Terkhen> <--- both of these lines give different results, and I have no idea why (the second one gives me the intended result)
09:25:37  <planetmaker> order of operators
09:25:42  <planetmaker> + goes before ?
09:25:49  <Yexo> ^^ that
09:26:47  <Yexo> I took the operator precedence rules of c/c++ as basis, ie this:
09:26:48  <Webster> Title: Operators in C and C++ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
09:27:30  <Terkhen> strange, I always assumed that ? had more in c++ :)
09:27:31  <Terkhen> thanks
09:27:56  <Terkhen> I'm half way of adapting the oil wells animation code from opengfx+ industries to FIRS (using advanced spritelayouts)
09:28:28  <planetmaker> :-)
09:28:34  <planetmaker> That's a feature, not a conversion ;-)
09:29:02  <Terkhen> I know :P
09:29:09  <Terkhen> I have been adding small animations while I converted
09:29:21  <Terkhen> this one is just a bit bigger
09:37:35  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1615:2e8314389d99: Add: Version infos in some more places (planetmaker) @
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09:43:48  <Hirundo> planetmaker: so... to add or to not add temporary conversion code for the slope_check->tile_check change?
09:44:08  <planetmaker> if you add it now, I'll convert FIRS now
09:44:15  <planetmaker> thus no conversion code needed
09:44:31  <Hirundo> k, adding
09:46:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2975 (Closed): rename CB 'slope_check' into 'tile_check' (planetmaker) @
09:46:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1616:45a27392579e: Change #2975: Rename callback 'slope_check' to... (Hirundo) @
09:46:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2975 (Closed): rename CB 'slope_check' into 'tile_check' (Hirundo) @
09:49:44  <Terkhen> <--- I had to play a bit with the sprites associated to each animation frame to simplify the advanced spritelayout code; the animation cycles correctly but it never stops. What did I break?
09:52:31  <planetmaker> Terkhen: don't use callback flags
09:52:39  <planetmaker> use the callback from the graphics section
09:52:49  <planetmaker> mixing both types is a no-no, I think
09:53:29  <Terkhen> ah, that's the other question, I don't know how to use that in this case
09:53:35  <planetmaker> i.e. CBs anim_control and anim_next_frame
09:53:41  <planetmaker> the latter isn't called there either, I think
09:54:04  <planetmaker> just link to the appropriate switch there instead of the switch with current_callback
09:54:13  <Terkhen> ah, found the documentation, ok :)
09:54:22  <Terkhen> what do you mean with anim_next_frame not being called here?
09:54:49  <planetmaker> forget that statemtn ;-)
09:55:15  <planetmaker> I was expecting a CBF for that, but that's not needed
09:56:05  <planetmaker> hm... actually I found my naming of the tiles more intuitive
09:56:12  <planetmaker> as _building makes it clear what the tile shows
09:56:56  <Terkhen> diff updated
09:57:20  <planetmaker> iirc it's desirable to know in the tile layouts what is used
09:57:33  <Terkhen> ok, I'll switch the names back in this case
09:57:38  <Terkhen> good luck fixing the others :)
09:57:56  <Terkhen> specially the quarries, which have 50 spritelayouts
09:58:02  <Terkhen> oh, you mean tile layouts, sorry :P
09:58:12  <planetmaker> and I used consistently tile1_xx in callbacks / etc
09:58:23  <planetmaker> instead of industrytile
09:58:41  <planetmaker> like slope_check
09:59:05  <Terkhen> ok, I'll do a industrytile -> tile mass sed after this
09:59:50  <planetmaker> could you do a s/industrytile_1/tile1/ in the callbacks?
10:00:05  <planetmaker> then industries - except where I "learnt" naming use the same style
10:00:19  <planetmaker> I'll have to re-visit my first industries for this consistency, too
10:00:49  <planetmaker> and I named the switches identical to the callback... except for slope_check :-P
10:01:16  <planetmaker> which I now could name tile_check consistently, too as the CB is now named properly
10:01:19  <Terkhen> tile_oil_well_animation_control, tile_oil_well_next_frame <--- like this?
10:01:30  <planetmaker> anim_control
10:01:42  <planetmaker> THIS_ID(tile1_anim_control)
10:01:57  <planetmaker> THIS_ID(tile1_anim_next_frame) etc
10:02:06  <planetmaker> easy to remember for me at least
10:02:16  <Hirundo> note that next_frame is only needed if you don't play your frames 1->N->1->N ...
10:02:24  <planetmaker> we do, Hirundo ;-)
10:02:32  <planetmaker> like random frames
10:02:51  <Terkhen> this animation is somewhat complicated
10:03:01  <Terkhen> it includes code to not stop it suddenly
10:03:06  <Terkhen> diff updated
10:03:07  <planetmaker> quite so :-)
10:03:19  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I'm using tile_oil_well now, not tile1
10:03:25  <planetmaker> uhm... why?
10:03:27  <Terkhen> I thought that's what you meant before
10:03:40  <planetmaker> THIS_ID == oil_wells ##
10:03:43  <Terkhen> tile_oil_well and tile_building
10:03:51  <planetmaker> ah
10:03:59  <planetmaker> ok
10:04:05  <planetmaker> stick with that
10:04:13  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:04:46  <planetmaker> +spritelayout THIS_ID(tile_2_layout) { <-- change that then, too ?
10:05:03  <Terkhen> I commented the animation code, if some comment is wrong then I understood it wrong and it is no wonder that the animation does not stop
10:05:18  <Terkhen> planetmaker: ok, but I'm not going to change all spritelayouts in the rest of the code to meaningful names :P
10:05:32  <planetmaker> no, I don't expect that :-)
10:05:42  <planetmaker> it's also unimportant for 90% of the industries
10:05:46  <planetmaker> they only use one tile
10:05:58  <planetmaker> except this one and few selected others
10:06:40  <Terkhen> diff updated
10:07:35  * planetmaker is happy
10:08:09  <Terkhen> do you know why the animation does not stop? :P
10:08:34  <planetmaker> still not?
10:09:21  <Ammler> [12:06] <Terkhen> diff updated <-- so you guys go back to big enourmous collection commits?
10:09:29  <Terkhen> what?
10:09:44  <Ammler> sounds like you make one diff and apply it in one commit
10:09:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 77:8faf96e51680: Change: Rename slope_check into tile_check in orde... (planetmaker) @
10:09:53  <Terkhen> that's a single diff
10:10:09  <planetmaker> hm... the diff fails to apply here partially
10:10:21  <planetmaker> slope_check -> tile_check
10:10:33  <Ammler> why the hell don't you create branches, this is so silly :-)
10:11:46  <Terkhen> Ammler: I'm happy with my way of coding, it works for me
10:11:52  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I'll update, wait
10:12:31  <Terkhen> hmm... the patch is applied to FIRS tip
10:12:33  <Terkhen> push :)
10:12:38  <Terkhen> but not my patch :P
10:13:43  <Ammler> you hide history and review
10:13:52  <planetmaker> oh... I won't push now... I have to merge more it seems ;-)
10:14:03  <Terkhen> what do you mean with history and review?
10:14:45  <Ammler> everytime you write "diff updated" you could have made a commit
10:14:52  <Terkhen> why?
10:15:06  <Ammler> to have reproduceable history
10:15:10  <Ammler> and review
10:15:26  <Terkhen> why do you need that?
10:15:45  <planetmaker> Ammler: that's pretty stupid
10:15:51  <Ammler> ok
10:15:51  <Terkhen> history of broken patches is useless IMO
10:16:05  <planetmaker> because then every of those commits would add nothing and code base would be worse than now in 90% of the time
10:16:10  <Ammler> yeah, you think, every single commit needs to be able to build etc...
10:16:18  <planetmaker> yes
10:16:22  <planetmaker> as it should always be
10:16:39  <Ammler> ok, completely different sights :-D
10:16:59  <planetmaker> no-one can use broken versions
10:17:03  <Ammler> IMO, only "main" head should be buildable
10:17:44  <Terkhen> <--- I'm comparing my diff file to the original OpenGFX+ Industries code, which works
10:18:05  <Terkhen> besides adding comments and changing the animation_frame -> sprite assignation a bit, I don't see any differences :/
10:19:07  <planetmaker> nor do I. Anyway, don't worry about my slope_check vs. tile_check commit... I'll add it after yours
10:20:17  <planetmaker> Ammler: what information is in a commit history of "add animation", "rename some switches" "use new CB style" "rename more switches" "rename sprite layouts"...
10:20:31  <planetmaker> with the same thing touched 3 or more times?
10:20:32  * Terkhen decides to cut out random stuff until something happens
10:20:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: also you would not need different sources for your current work
10:22:08  <Ammler> if you want someone to review "your patch", you push :-)
10:22:47  <Ammler> and finally, you have nice merges, not just forgotten pulls :-)
10:22:51  <planetmaker> Terkhen: but... animation DOES stop and re-start...
10:23:03  <planetmaker> on a per-tile basis
10:23:06  <Terkhen> hmm... the patch works for you? :S
10:23:35  <planetmaker> I just wonder whether the random numbers need re-seeding
10:23:57  <planetmaker> and whether they possibly should use random numbers from the parent - which are easier re-seeded
10:24:33  <Ammler> and since you learned that merge is easier as applying patch...
10:24:33  <planetmaker> I think I have one pump going all the time, One pump never stopping. The others in between. For my one oil field I look at
10:24:56  <Terkhen> for me they continue going
10:25:09  <Terkhen> I must have a stray firs version somewhere in my data folder that is being used instead of this
10:26:20  <Terkhen> yes, there was one firs version there
10:26:34  <Terkhen> now I have two stopped pumps, the others going all the time (before none stopped)
10:26:35  <planetmaker> holy cow. oil wells ARE expensive
10:26:38  <planetmaker> 86 million
10:26:55  <Terkhen> so... somethings needs to get reset somewhere
10:27:35  <planetmaker> well, not necessarily
10:27:49  <planetmaker> it's just that the pattern now will eternally stay the same
10:28:00  <planetmaker> which is not really that bad. But... can be changed
10:28:09  <planetmaker> now it's determined upon building it
10:28:19  <Terkhen> in opengfx+ industries it changed randomly in a nice way
10:28:21  <Terkhen> I want that :P
10:29:02  <planetmaker> hm. on fast-forward it looks like that
10:29:54  <Terkhen> it does not change for me, even in fast forward
10:30:22  <Terkhen> as if THIS_ID(tile_oil_well_random_next_frame) was never called, or only once
10:30:37  <planetmaker> though I've indeed one which is inactive
10:31:05  <Terkhen> hmm... or maybe it is always called, but it is always returning the same value
10:31:16  <planetmaker> that's what I mean
10:31:23  <planetmaker> the random values never change
10:31:30  <planetmaker> hm...
10:31:36  <planetmaker> but then they'd never stop and re-start
10:31:40  <planetmaker> as most do that just fine
10:32:40  <Terkhen> mine never stop and restart
10:32:48  <Terkhen> either they are stopped or always looping
10:32:52  * Terkhen is confused :)
10:34:02  <planetmaker> I just check against ogfx+industries. It's the same behaviour
10:34:18  <planetmaker> so, transplant successful, I'd say
10:34:32  <planetmaker> did you re-load the newgrf?
10:34:35  <planetmaker> or start a new game?
10:34:45  <planetmaker> and install the updated version?
10:35:33  <Terkhen> I have been closing openttd and starting a new game
10:35:42  <Terkhen> I'll scrap my local version and use the patch
10:35:45  <planetmaker> and installed your updated version?
10:36:33  <Terkhen> make -j3 install always
10:36:46  <planetmaker> hm. then I do not know
10:38:15  <Terkhen> I messed up my local copy somehow, using the patch I uploaded it works
10:38:26  <Terkhen> stupid double copy of firs
10:38:49  <Terkhen> thanks for the review :)
10:40:35  <planetmaker> you're welcome
10:40:59  <Terkhen> take your time to update the slope change, I'll take a break now :P
10:41:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2425:cdcb06616c2e: Feature: Add animation to Oil Wells. (Terkhen) @
10:41:49  <planetmaker> slope change is really only sed
10:42:36  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:46:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2426:04866a3e720e: Codechange: Metal foundry uses tile l... (planetmaker) @
10:48:46  <planetmaker> done
10:49:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2427:2664c5d93f6f: Codechange: Adopt to NML r1616 renami... (planetmaker) @
10:56:32  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:58:53  <planetmaker> now you need to updated you NML.
10:59:02  <planetmaker> And andy surely will stumble over it :-P
11:00:37  <Terkhen> :)
11:25:32  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2918: OpenTTD target version(s) (planetmaker) @
11:32:52  <Hirundo> planetmaker: I'm not sure if silently adding version checks is the way to go, it might lead to 'why does XXX not work' bug reports
11:34:28  <planetmaker> well... maybe not then, but issue warnings about unused properties or variables?
11:35:04  <planetmaker> hm... but then a grf property of min_openttd_version makes not much sense
11:35:36  <planetmaker> though... such if blocks certainly could be detected
11:36:01  <planetmaker> but it'd mean to add meta-info to each property and variable.
11:36:16  <planetmaker> And possibly also to certain implicit ways to write newgrfs
11:36:33  <planetmaker> like adv. sprite layouts
11:37:40  <Ammler> there are (closed/rejected) tickets from me about that :-)
11:39:11  <Ammler> ah no, those were about min nmlc
11:41:05  <planetmaker> that actually starts to make sense to me ;-)
11:41:21  <planetmaker> min_nml: 1616;
11:42:07  <planetmaker> but it won't stop failure for too new versions
11:43:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #2850: PyPI - the Python Package Index (Ammler) @
12:10:35  <planetmaker> Ammler: is it then published daily?
12:11:16  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1824 (Closed): Oil Well animation (Terkhen) @
12:15:40  <planetmaker> so... Terkhen, Hirundo, Yexo: worth to move the NML documentation to a wiki?
12:15:50  <planetmaker> like an NML section in the tt-wiki?
12:15:53  * Terkhen thinks so
12:15:58  <planetmaker>
12:15:59  <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial - TTWiki (at
12:16:00  <Terkhen> it is much easier to modify and maintain
12:16:06  <planetmaker> I do agree
12:16:25  <Terkhen> I'd prefer a subwiki as done for the specs, but I'm not sure if it is worth one
12:16:29  <Yexo> fine by me, although maybe (like for the nfo spec) a separate domain?
12:16:49  <Yexo> to make a very clear distinction between the actual spec and the tutorials / general information
12:17:09  <planetmaker> Not sure it's really needed in this case as long as we all use the NML category
12:17:15  <planetmaker> or maybe NMLspec
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12:17:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: no pypi is only applied to releases
12:17:53  <planetmaker> ah
12:17:55  <Terkhen> NML is not a spec IMO
12:18:00  <Terkhen> NMLdoc would be better :P
12:18:17  <Terkhen> a separate domain makes it more clear IMO
12:18:38  <planetmaker> like
12:18:42  <Terkhen> for example, yes
12:18:44  <Yexo> yes
12:18:49  <Terkhen> NML is a NewGRF language, as is NFO
12:19:02  <Terkhen> the same reasons for keeping it separate are usable in this case too
12:19:20  <planetmaker> well. NFO has no separate wiki either. That's the newgrf specs, not nfo specs or grfcodec specs
12:19:22  <Terkhen> limiting confusion between what is documentation and what are examples and so on
12:19:37  <Terkhen> so newgrf specs != nfo?
12:19:46  <planetmaker> in principle :-)
12:19:50  <Yexo> planetmaker: the newgrf-specs wiki is the nfo specs
12:19:54  <planetmaker> nfo includes the escapes
12:19:59  <Terkhen> I know that they are not exactly the same... but newgrf specs describes the nfo language too
12:20:33  <Yexo> the newgrf-specs wiki is a bit broader than just the nfo specs, but not much
12:20:42  <Terkhen> yes
12:21:14  <Yexo> the general tt-wiki has pages like the RailwayDictionary
12:21:22  <planetmaker> well, ok. Just wondering.
12:21:30  <Yexo> I don't want to mix those with actual specs / official docs (/ whatever you want to call it)
12:21:46  <planetmaker> then I'll ask orudge
12:22:09  <Yexo> and we should think about releasing 0.2 quite soon, that is, if it's stable enough
12:22:36  <Yexo> since there have been a few breaking changes after 0.1 and moving to a wiki means we lose an easy way of reading historic documentation
12:22:50  <Yexo> you can go back the history of one page, but not read the complete wiki as it was one year ago
12:28:35  <Hirundo> makes sense
12:29:11  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2428:312aa6ed746b: Codechange: Change THIS_ID(industryti... (Terkhen) @
12:29:13  <Yexo> Hirundo: we're discussing with orudge now, he proposes to put the specs in an NML: namespace on
12:29:49  <Hirundo> hmm..
12:31:37  <Hirundo> That might be a better alternative, as there are quite a number of pages that can be shared between NFO and NML
12:31:47  <Terkhen> yay for thinking that I tested when I did not
12:32:31  <Ammler> shouldn't the need of nfo spec be useless for nml author?
12:32:40  <Ammler> that is just helpful for you, isn't?
12:32:47  <Yexo> yes, but does that matter?
12:32:53  <Yexo> the nml spec is just as useless for nfo authors
12:33:29  <Ammler> well, just answering to Terken, which would like to link from nml to nfo
12:33:33  <Hirundo> Some things are basically shared, like lists of classes/labels, default XXX properties, palette stuff
12:34:04  <Ammler> Hirundo: so you will add your constants to that tables?
12:34:29  <Hirundo> no
12:34:53  <planetmaker> they're already in the existing tables in this docs
12:35:36  <Ammler> well, maybe it is easier for authors, which switch from nfo to nml
12:35:39  <Terkhen> false alarm, it works
12:35:39  <planetmaker> ok... where do we put / link the NML main page from the wiki's main page then?
12:35:51  <Terkhen> Ammler: what do you mean?
12:36:12  <Ammler> Terkhen: I fear, you could confuse nml authors by linking nfo stuff
12:36:32  <Terkhen> I don't remember suggesting that
12:37:13  <Ammler> ah, sorry, it was Hirundo :-)
12:37:28  <Terkhen> oh, ok, I was rereading my lines :P
12:37:40  <Terkhen> bbl
12:37:43  <Ammler> [14:31] <Hirundo> That might be a better alternative, as there are quite a number of pages that can be shared between NFO and NML
12:39:49  <Yexo> planetmaker: I'd say create another "main page for NML" and link it from the top navigation bar on the left
12:40:04  <planetmaker> Ah, yes
12:41:12  <Hirundo> Ammler: I'm more referring to pages like these:
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12:41:13  <Webster> Title: PalettesAndCoordinates - GRFSpecs (at
12:43:03  <Ammler> Yexo: in that case, you maybe should also get rid of the devzone wiki
12:43:11  <Ammler> or whoever...
12:43:28  <planetmaker> maybe
12:43:34  <Yexo> this one? yes
12:43:39  <Ammler> you could link with custom tab to the new wiki
12:43:52  <Ammler> Yexo: yes
12:44:05  <planetmaker> hm
12:44:12  <Yexo> we already have a custom tab linking to the current docs, I think we just change that link to the new docs
12:44:14  <planetmaker> or actually use that ;-)
12:44:48  <planetmaker> but the redmine wiki is not that comfortable
12:45:17  <Yexo> the redmine wiki is limited, and I'd prefer to use a more general wiki system
12:45:45  <Ammler> well, best would be restructured text, but you don't like that :-)
12:46:40  <Ammler> at least for non-wiki stuff
12:46:59  <planetmaker> the problem is: one would have to learn that ;-)
12:47:11  <planetmaker> while wiki is something we all know
12:48:03  <Yexo> right now there is no advantage to move to restructured text, while there is an advantage for moving to a wiki
12:48:37  <planetmaker> the important point is "easy to maintain and update"
12:49:00  <planetmaker> a wiki has a lower barrier than a commit to the repo
12:49:07  <Ammler> well, and possibility to get contributors
12:52:07  <Ammler> also webster could link to the nml wiki like it does to openttd (@man)
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13:08:16  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
13:08:20  <Terkhen> check the oil wells :)
13:08:25  <andythenorth> bonjour
13:08:29  * andythenorth now has 8GB :P
13:08:33  <Terkhen> nice :)
13:24:40  <andythenorth> do I need to update my nml?
13:24:52  <andythenorth> I have FIRS r2428
13:24:54  <andythenorth> won't build
13:25:00  <andythenorth> nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/aluminium_plant.pnml", line 240: Unrecognized identifier 'tile_check' encountered
13:25:56  <Ammler> hmm, shall I quote pm?
13:26:07  <planetmaker> please do :-P
13:26:51  <Ammler> [12:58] <planetmaker> now you need to updated you NML.
13:26:53  <Ammler> [12:59] <planetmaker> And andy surely will stumble over it
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13:28:22  * planetmaker hugs andythenorth
13:29:12  <andythenorth> lets see
13:29:53  <planetmaker> we decided to rename a callback today ;-)
13:30:11  <andythenorth> Terkhen: animation looks good :)
13:30:35  <andythenorth> do they stop and start randomly per tile?
13:30:39  <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes
13:30:51  <andythenorth> very nice
13:30:52  <Terkhen> they have an additional animation cycle so the animation does not stop suddenly
13:31:04  <Terkhen> it is planetmaker's code from ogfx-industries, tweaked to work with advanced spritelayouts
13:31:23  <andythenorth> should I add anything else to oil wells?  I was going to do storage tanks and such.  But I added the hut and that looked like enouhg
13:31:33  <andythenorth> player can use ISR / DWE to add more
13:32:06  <planetmaker> yes, that's sufficient IMHO
13:32:22  <planetmaker> looking around in this countryside, there are oil wells like these - but no big storage tanks
13:32:32  <planetmaker> but there's an occasional control hut like that
13:32:46  <andythenorth> I reckon it looks nice
13:32:50  <andythenorth> too much is not better
13:33:25  <planetmaker> how was it with perfection of design? :-)
13:34:48  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #2976 (New): potential issue with palettes (planetmaker) @
13:41:01  <andythenorth> so FIRS is done? :P
13:41:51  <Terkhen> all industries from the paper mill to the end of the list are missing spritelayout conversion / templating
13:42:03  <Terkhen> many of them probably won't need it
13:42:55  <Terkhen> after that, I'll do the forest and fruit plantation
13:43:19  <Terkhen> then, checking some industries to rename some stuff
13:43:25  <Terkhen> after that my todo list will be empty
13:44:36  <andythenorth> forest rocks :)
13:44:47  <andythenorth> except for the bits I couldn't be bothered to finish
13:45:06  <andythenorth> basically I expended all my love for it on randomising cacti + dead trees in tropic
13:45:28  <andythenorth> and I didn't fix some of the layouts where trees are out of the bounding box :P
13:46:31  <Terkhen> hmm... the fruit plantation follows a similar code?
13:47:10  <andythenorth> similar
13:48:36  <Terkhen> ok, so I will not need to duplicate the work of understanding the code :P
13:48:58  <planetmaker> :-)
13:49:30  <andythenorth> possibly fruit plantation might even be simpler than forest
13:49:41  <andythenorth> what happened with fences + sloper tiles for farms?
13:54:14  <planetmaker> nothing so far
13:54:54  <andythenorth> k
13:54:57  <andythenorth> 0.8
13:56:07  <planetmaker> it's relatively easy to add. But I'd like first everything converted before I copy & paste it from ogfx+landscape
13:58:03  <planetmaker> and adding it is even easier when the code is templated :-)
14:00:21  <planetmaker> <-- nml main page
14:00:22  <Webster> Title: NML:Main - GRFSpecs (at
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14:20:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2429:b159f34ec7ea: Codechange: Petrol Pump uses advanced... (Terkhen) @
14:22:13  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-newgrf-dos.gpl (planetmaker) @
14:22:13  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-newgrf-psp7-dos.pal (planetmaker) @
14:22:13  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-noaction-nocomp.gpl (planetmaker) @
14:22:13  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-noaction.gpl (planetmaker) @
14:22:15  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttd-newgrf-win.gpl (planetmaker) @
14:22:18  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - palette_256 (planetmaker) @
14:25:27  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - pal_win_png.act (planetmaker) @
14:25:27  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - TTDWinSafePalette.act (planetmaker) @
14:25:27  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - TTDWinSafePaletteWithCC.act (planetmaker) @
14:25:27  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - TTDWinFullPalette.act (planetmaker) @
14:26:37  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - NewGRF_development_guide_for_Windows_users_0.9.0.pdf (foobar) @
14:27:01  <planetmaker> sorry for the spam
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14:56:19  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 142:7f3f348c04d5: - Add a track solver to autoconnect track with its neight... (krinn) @
14:56:19  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 143:1da6a96bb724: - RailConnectorSolver now working (krinn) @
14:56:19  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 144:6cacf6050ffa: - Fix owner check with RailConnectorSolver (krinn) @
15:10:08  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #2850: PyPI - the Python Package Index (Hirundo) @
15:10:08  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2280 (Rejected): using sphinx for the reference (Hirundo) @
15:11:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2155: NML installation on windows (Hirundo) @
15:12:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2977 (New): town variables (Hirundo) @
15:15:43  <michi_cc> planetmaker: Some more Photoshop palettes:
15:15:59  <planetmaker> oh, thanks
15:16:57  <planetmaker> good to have a place where people can be pointed to :-)
15:21:16  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-toy-windows.act (planetmaker) @
15:21:16  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-dos-noact.act (planetmaker) @
15:21:16  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-dos.act (planetmaker) @
15:21:16  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-toy-dos.act (planetmaker) @
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16:23:21  <Rubidium> 22:53 < andythenorth> remind me about rivers :P
16:23:45  <andythenorth> Rubidium: remind me to remind you to remind me
16:23:46  <andythenorth> later :P
16:24:00  <andythenorth> baby.feed("omelette")
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17:04:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #964 (Closed): Complete the list of action0 properties and varacti... (Hirundo) @
17:06:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #995 (Closed): Handle errors more gracefully (Hirundo) @
17:07:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2933: Handling of failed callbacks (Hirundo) @
17:07:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #2879 (Closed): My priority list (Hirundo) @
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17:10:17  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2815 (Rejected): new properity: minimal required nmlc ver... (Hirundo) @
17:10:38  <Brot6> nml: update from r1612 to r1616 done -
17:10:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2459: properity for minimum required nmlc to build (Hirundo) @
17:15:37  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2459: properity for minimum required nmlc to build (Ammler) @
17:20:00  <Brot6> firs: update from r2414 to r2429 done -
17:22:37  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r76 to r77 done (1 warnings) -
17:23:00  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r248), narvs (r37), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), opengfx (r722), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r638), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1616), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile
17:23:00  <Brot6> (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r107), fish (r684), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29),
17:23:02  <Brot6> airportsplus (r107), comic-houses (r71)
17:24:24  <Brot6> narvs: compile of r37 still failed (#2789) -
17:34:05  <frosch123> nmlspecs on newgrfwiki?
17:39:32  <Terkhen> yup
17:41:05  <frosch123> i don't think that is a good idea. we even explicitly excluded tutorials from the specs wiki. as well as grfcodec and nforenum. i would not like m4nfo either there, why nml?
17:41:29  <frosch123> i think a separate wiki is better, isn't there even one on the devzone?
17:41:46  <Terkhen> I preferred a separate wiki too :P
17:41:56  <Ammler> those gimp converts are very resource hungry :-)
17:42:19  <frosch123> Terkhen: sounds like i find arguments in the logs :)
17:43:22  <Terkhen> orudge said that if needed everything could be moved to a separate wiki later
17:43:57  <frosch123> but isn't it easier to set up everything with interwiki links in the begining?
17:45:25  <Terkhen> probably, yes
17:45:28  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 281), ogfx-industries (Diffsize: 747), foobarstramtracks, cets (436 warnings) (Diffsize: 462), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile, dutchtramset, swisstowns, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 2), frenchtowns, ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 4775), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), indonesiantowns (1
17:45:28  <Brot6> warnings) (Diffsize: 1), airportsplus (2 warnings) (Diffsize: 45288)
18:18:22  <planetmaker> frosch123: then you need to convince orudge
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19:03:51  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22754 still failed (#2964) -
19:09:08  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22753 to r22754 done -
19:10:51  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22754 still failed (#2966) -
19:12:29  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22754 still failed (#2446) -
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20:46:10  <Rubidium> 18:23 < andythenorth> Rubidium: remind me to remind you to remind me
20:51:25  <andythenorth> poop :(
20:53:41  <andythenorth> hmm
20:54:01  <andythenorth> arctic sprite sheet needs re-laying out
20:54:05  <andythenorth> errp
20:54:15  <andythenorth> maybe I can change the nfo
20:57:11  <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #2978 (New): The Arc Train (V453000) @
21:02:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: btw. maybe we should move (most of) devzone guide to the tt-wiki too?
21:05:04  <andythenorth> that might be wise
21:06:26  <planetmaker> might be a good idea
21:06:55  * andythenorth -> bedtime
21:07:25  <Ammler> planetmaker: specially also those documents
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21:09:35  <planetmaker> like palettes?
21:09:42  <planetmaker> and the other docs? Yeah...
21:12:18  <Ammler> well, the docs not related to devzone
21:12:24  <Ammler> (and wikipages)
21:12:37  <Ammler> if there are
21:13:56  <V453000> is it a problem when I use dos palette? :)
21:15:19  <Hirundo> no, in fact using the dos palette is recommended
21:16:08  <V453000> :) thanks, I have read that somewhere but I better ask :)
21:16:47  <Ammler> V453000: I have no clue, why our lovely devs still insist in calling it dos palette, we have to live with it
21:17:15  <V453000> ?
21:17:41  <Ammler> it looks like it is the worse palette
21:17:47  <V453000> ooh :)
21:19:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: you could keep dos/windows palette and just use "the" palette as third, which is the same as dos ;-)
21:19:44  <V453000> :D
21:19:50  <V453000> "The One"
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21:58:50  <planetmaker> probably a good idea, Ammler :-)
22:09:36  <Brot6> Unable to connect to execution expired
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22:36:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 723:4e0e677136ec: Fix: [Makefile] Not all versions of 'echo' respect or know a... (planetmaker) @
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