Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 25th August 2011:
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01:51:01  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature Request #3011 (New): More natural river edges (oberhuemer) @
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02:45:45  <Brot6> Japanese Town Names - Revision 1:189b71d11a74: -adding readme (sylf@kozue) @
02:48:11  <Brot6> Japanese Town Names - Revision 2:18a0b8fd54d6: Simple update to readme (sylf@kozue) @
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05:45:46  <andythenorth> mornnng
05:46:56  <Rubidium> moin andythenorth
05:49:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 123:d375a96025c7: Add: Graphics for small_building, terminal_buildin... (dnicholls) @
05:49:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 124:01c333ac444f: Feature: Four rotations for helidepot (dnicholls) @
05:49:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 125:ed0be8e4eb6a: Feature: Four rotations for helistation (dnicholls) @
05:49:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 126:de10f644b309: Feature: Four rotations for intercontinental airport (dnicholls) @
05:49:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 127:b6437dd12c6b: Fix: Remove deprecated spritegroups for small airport (dnicholls) @
05:49:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 128:f8f41e085eee: Fix: Intercontinental airport windsock offsets (dnicholls) @
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06:51:39  <andythenorth> maybe oberhümer is right about renaming supplies - seriously
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07:43:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: give oberhümer dev access to ogfx?
07:43:59  <Ammler> so he can "fix" the river shores :-)
07:44:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: I think Yexo has some reasons not to do so
07:44:42  <Ammler> oh
07:44:43  <Rubidium> or s/some reasons/a reason/
07:44:54  <Ammler> ah yes, narvs
07:45:06  <Ammler> unfixed errors for long times
07:45:08  <Rubidium> last 15? revs not compiling at all
07:45:50  <Rubidium> okay, apparantly OpenTTD OSX compilation was broken for ~4500 revs ;)
07:46:27  <Ammler> Rubidium: there should be a kind of warning on the download page, if not every os is avaialbe
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07:46:48  <Ammler> our people sometimes do update ps without checking, if there are actually binaries available
07:47:02  <Rubidium> how would that help?
07:47:34  <Ammler> I wonder, if I shall simply run a wget script to check availability
07:48:14  <Ammler> IMO, a nightly is "broken" if not every supported os is available
07:48:33  <Rubidium> curl ;)
07:49:39  <Ammler> r22804 was a strange one
07:49:46  <Ammler> usually windows is missing
07:50:30  <Rubidium> I'd count on it being mostly OSX from now on
07:50:37  <Ammler> aren't the build logs available anymore?
07:51:09  <Rubidium> they are available, just not publicly
07:51:25  <Rubidium> mostly because of a complete lack of security to the buildbot
07:52:35  <Rubidium> but I/we still need to set up a new compile farm as buildbot just plain sucks
07:53:06  <Rubidium> ... for the things we want to use it for
07:53:09  <Ammler> well, in your case, wouldn't Hudson suffice?
07:53:17  <Rubidium> no idea
07:53:32  <Rubidium> haven't got the time or will to invest any time in it lately
07:53:45  <Ammler> else obs
07:54:05  <Rubidium> I doubt obs will work
07:54:36  <Ammler> well, you need to host your own obs so you don't need permanent connection to suse obs
07:55:06  <Rubidium> right...
07:55:21  <Rubidium> I need an account to search the fracking obs site?
07:55:34  <Ammler> not anymore
07:56:04  <Rubidium> sorry, but it really gives that error to me
07:56:07  <Ammler> not sure, if osx is possible with
07:56:20  <Rubidium> anyhow, don't see anything MSVC OBS related
07:56:53  <Ammler> yeah, windows binaries might mostly be made with mingw
07:57:11  <Rubidium> yes, might... but won't do that
07:57:19  <Ammler> there were once plans to support win and osx but didn't reach much about it lately
07:57:33  <Rubidium> crash.dmp is way too valuable
07:58:26  <Ammler> read*
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08:37:46  <dihedral> hudson could work
08:41:10  <dihedral> you would need to cross compile or have a vm for each target
08:41:31  <dihedral> and a hudson on each of those
08:41:54  <dihedral> they would act as slaves to a master, and the master controlls them all
08:42:05  <dihedral> i think
08:42:16  <dihedral> i could be wrong though
08:42:51  <dihedral> possibly another method of executing the required shell commands could suffice
08:42:54  <dihedral> i.e. ssh
08:51:53  <Rubidium> a vm for each target-ish isn't a problem
08:52:06  <Rubidium> though it'll be more a VM for each OS
08:52:27  <Rubidium> i.e. there is one for windows and one for linux (which contains the OSX cross compile)
09:02:35  <Yexo> <Ammler> planetmaker: give oberhümer dev access to ogfx? <- as Rb said, I wouldn't give oberhuemer access. Just let him put the sprites in the ticket and commit them yourself
09:42:34  <dihedral> if you crosscompile, you dont need a vm
09:43:02  <dihedral> but with hudson it is very easy for others to provide slaves
09:45:58  <Rubidium> dihedral: ever tried cross compiling with MSVC?
09:46:23  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1629:6dd68ed29e3d: Fix: Remove any utf-8 byte-order mark from the... (Hirundo) @
09:55:13  <Yexo> Hirundo: your fix works
09:55:46  <Hirundo> It worked for me, but I'm not sure about him as he got a different error message (I got foobar's)
09:56:00  <Yexo> indeed, I can reproduce foobar's message
09:56:24  <Yexo> I think ikanian has a file with the BOM somewhere in the middle
09:56:39  <Yexo> what surprised me was that having a bom for the language files was no problem
09:57:21  <Hirundo> line = line.rstrip('\n\r').lstrip(u'\uFEFF') <- indeed
10:02:26  <dihedral> Rubidium, nope
10:02:37  <dihedral> never touched msvc :-P
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10:34:56  <Hirundo> andythenorth: Tip: listen to what oberhumer says, then do the opposite :)
10:35:26  <andythenorth> he's not wrong though - logically
10:35:37  <andythenorth> I like these long arguments, they often have sense at the end of them
10:37:10  <Lakie> Heh
10:37:41  <andythenorth> it's the middle bit that's painful :P
10:39:33  <Lakie> Where neither side seems right?
10:51:28  <andythenorth> yup
11:01:34  <dihedral> who is the uber-what-not anyway?
11:14:23  <Ammler> andythenorth: maybe you wanna "close" the rivers newgrf with a release to bananas and then let feature changes go to openttd trunk directly? (archive the proejct)
11:14:31  <Ammler> future*
11:14:48  <andythenorth> Ammler: maybe
11:14:54  <Ammler> or is that still of any use?
11:14:58  <andythenorth> there are improvements needed
11:15:15  <andythenorth> I don't have commit rights on trunk
11:15:16  <Ammler> any wouldn't those improvements better go to openttd trunk?
11:15:25  <Ammler> but you can fork openttd
11:15:32  <andythenorth> true
11:15:40  <Ammler> and then rubi or whoever can pull those
11:15:47  <andythenorth> replace the current repo with a clone of trunk
11:15:48  <andythenorth> maybe
11:16:00  <Ammler> or a mq
11:16:23  <Rubidium> mq doesn't work that splendidly on binary files
11:16:26  <Ammler> but you should make a release for the 1.1.0 users
11:16:32  <Ammler> Rubidium: git patches
11:17:35  <Ammler> well, you should tell what the easiest is for you...
11:17:35  <Rubidium> could dump the new river graphics in 1.1.3
11:18:10  <Rubidium> if you can make a patch that does binary files as well, then a patch against trunk@HEAD would be preferable
11:18:45  <Ammler> you need to add [diff]\ngit = 1 to your hgrc
11:19:04  <Ammler> and use hg (q)import instead patch
11:20:53  <Ammler> andythenorth: ready to work with mq? :-)
11:21:24  <andythenorth> I've done it before
11:21:29  <andythenorth> I have an mq for roadtypes
11:36:33  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 129:33d942dc6570: Add: Graphics for gates and gangways in 4 rotations (dnicholls) @
11:36:33  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 130:56158e9a5bb4: Feature: Four rotations for city airport (dnicholls) @
11:36:33  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 131:6fc682bfec0e: Feature: Four rotations for metropolitan airport (dnicholls) @
11:40:01  <Ammler> well, we could create a generic openttd.grf mq, not just for rivers...
11:52:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 132:eb31cf83e559: Cleanup: Remove obsolete spritelayout references; ... (dnicholls) @
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14:42:16  <Terkhen> hmm... FIRS is using the "items_of_cargo" cargo property, but I don't see it at the NML documentation
14:43:22  <Terkhen> I suppose it is action0 property 0x1C, but I don't understand the differences between 0x1C and 0x0C either
14:44:25  <Rubidium> industries?
14:44:33  <Rubidium> oh.. I'm blond
14:46:27  <Rubidium> 0B: 1 'passenger', 0C: $NUM 'passengers' (NUM != 1), 1C: '{NUM} passenger{P "" s}' (single quoted bit would be the string)
14:46:55  <Terkhen> oh, so 1C turns 0C and 0B obsolete
14:47:02  <Rubidium> basically yes
14:47:13  <Terkhen> ok, thanks :)
14:48:14  <Rubidium> 1B overrides 0B, 1C overrides 0C (or rather, 0X overrides 1X / 1X overrides 0X based on the order in the nfo)
14:50:05  <Rubidium> anyhow, basically all French translations of cargos would be wrong in case of 0 passengers; in french 0 and 1 use the same 'plural' form
14:50:29  <Rubidium> and then there are the many other plural forms that er even more different and thus even more broken with 0B/0C
14:51:05  <Rubidium> but... 1B/1C isn't supported by TTDP, so you might want to consider providing the old strings as well. Although, then you'd need to 'if' them out
14:51:23  <Rubidium> or... NML could do that automagically
14:52:14  <Terkhen> yes, that's what I'm thinking
14:52:21  <Terkhen> NML should take care of this :P
15:00:50  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 160:e0e5156b9362: - Finish rails connecting to IN/OUT, front of station, si... (krinn) @
15:34:22  <Hirundo> Hoe incompatible is it with ttdpatch?
15:37:02  <Hirundo> As in, does setting 1B/1C make the grf invalid, or does it merely result in a warning?
15:37:22  <andythenorth> Terkhen: far as I could see, FIRS had lost the plural strings for cargo (iirc)
15:37:27  <andythenorth> can't check right now
15:39:09  <Terkhen> andythenorth: they seem to work for me
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15:49:39  <andythenorth> bbl
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16:18:51  <Terkhen> Called whenever cargo is delivered. extra_callback_info2 contains 0xttaadddd with tt being the time spent en-route (1 unit = 2.5 days), aa the amount of cargo delivered and dddd the manhattan distance it was transported. The returned value is multiplied by the amount and the price_factor and then divided by 8192 to determine the income the player receives. Returning negative values is possible, it makes players pay for the deliver
16:18:51  <Terkhen> y. <--- is this still true, given that price_factor no longer uses the old NewGRF units in nml?
16:28:18  <Hirundo> No, probably not
16:33:40  <Terkhen> should I create a patch for the docs in the repo or update the wiki?
16:33:53  <Terkhen> I'm a bit confused regarding which one is official and which one is not
16:33:53  <Hirundo> The magical conversion factor of 8192 should become the even more magical number of 199
16:34:19  <Hirundo> Terkhen: Update the wiki
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16:35:06  <Terkhen> ok :)
16:35:07  <Terkhen> hi frosch123
16:35:49  <Terkhen> 'price_factor'              : {'num' : 0x12, 'size' : 4, 'unit_conversion' : (1 << 21) / (10.0 * 20 * 255)} <--- unit_conversion is the conversion internally applied by NML?
16:36:04  <frosch123> moin terkhen :)
16:36:23  <Hirundo> that factor is about 41
16:38:10  <Terkhen> ok, so that's where the 199 comes from :P
16:38:16  <Terkhen> ok, I'll update the wiki then
16:38:18  <Hirundo> exactly
16:38:45  <Hirundo> I wonder if it'd be possible to eliminate that factor, or at least make it more sane
16:40:13  <Hirundo> dividing the CB result by 199 will result in ... rounding errors.. :)
16:41:31  <Terkhen> The returned value is multiplied by the amount and the price_factor and then divided by 199,21875 to determine the income the player receives. <-- that does not look very nice either
16:47:07  <Hirundo> I'll probably add a conversion factor of (result*329) >> 8, that makes the resulting factor 256
16:48:08  <Hirundo> actually about 256.03, but it's close enough
16:50:30  <Terkhen> ok :)
17:03:03  <Terkhen> <--- I'm not sure if this is a good idea, it might make more sense to wait until callback specific scopes are done
17:11:55  <Brot6> nml: update from r1628 to r1629 done -
17:12:47  <Hirundo> Terkhen: Indeed it's best to wait with that
17:13:48  <Terkhen> ok :)
17:17:17  <Hirundo> It seems though, that station rating is missing some info on the parameters
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17:18:54  <Brot6> narvs: update from r46 to r52 done (11 warnings) -
17:21:09  * Hirundo adds
17:21:39  <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r122 to r132 done (2 warnings) -
17:21:41  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r251), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), firs (r2505), opengfx (r727), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r639), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1629), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu
17:21:41  <Brot6> (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r109), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r78), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143),
17:21:46  <Brot6> belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29), comic-houses (r71)
17:48:05  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains, ogfx-industries (Diffsize: 747), firs, foobarstramtracks, cets (436 warnings) (Diffsize: 462), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile, dutchtramset, swisstowns, dutchroadfurniture, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 2), frenchtowns, ogfx-rv, ogfx-landscape (1 warnings), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30),
17:48:05  <Brot6> indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 1)
17:57:51  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I might have a solution to the snow sprites organisation issue
17:57:59  <andythenorth> I need to apply my brain for a minute
18:00:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to use the black outlines as basements?
18:01:05  <andythenorth> I kind of like them in original ttd
18:16:04  <Terkhen> hmm... can I force floating point divisions with integer values somehow in nml?
18:18:07  <Terkhen> hmmm... I managed to do it, but it seems to be possible only for compile time constants :P
18:19:37  <andythenorth> can't you just divide by 8 or something?
18:21:33  <Terkhen> I'm playing a bit with the custom payment callback
18:21:47  <Terkhen> delivery_distance / delivery_time
18:29:13  <andythenorth> for which set?
18:31:38  <Terkhen> small test case
18:31:55  <Terkhen> I'm using the unfinished speed graph patch to see the results more clearly
18:32:05  <Terkhen> but everything I try sucks :P
18:32:49  <Terkhen> right now I'm duplicating the normal method with a parameter to change the distance coefficient
18:36:56  <Terkhen> I'd like to get something that is less dependent on "throw everything very far == €€€€"
18:37:43  <Rubidium> Terkhen: ? :)
18:38:00  <Rubidium> (totally unfinished and such)
18:40:59  <Terkhen> interesting diff :)
18:41:59  <andythenorth> Terkhen: the throw everything far = £££ is correct :P
18:42:07  <andythenorth> freight is charged per ton mile
18:42:08  <andythenorth> irl
18:42:18  <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes, but it should have less weight IMO
18:42:24  <andythenorth> + a flat rate lading fee
18:44:22  <Terkhen> Rubidium: payment drops quite quickly depending on days in transit
18:45:49  <Terkhen> also
18:46:46  <Terkhen> but it is looking nice, I also want something that scales with distance instead of having those big bumps
18:47:15  <Hirundo> overflows?
18:47:23  <Terkhen> looks like it does
18:47:37  <V453000> :d
18:47:48  <Terkhen> I managed to overflow the custom payment callback too, but it requires huge amounts (like 150k € or so)
18:50:26  <Terkhen> <--- for reference, this is the graph for normal cargos with normal payment rates
18:54:09  <Hirundo> "coal trumps all" summarizes that graph nicely :)
18:54:41  <Terkhen> :P
19:03:12  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22844 still failed (#2964) -
19:09:06  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22832 to r22844 done -
19:12:08  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22844 still failed (#2966) -
19:14:05  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22844 still failed (#2446) -
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20:37:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth: a black footprint of buildings on the ground is IMHO a very nice feature of the base sets. So yes, I'd like that
20:43:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth: and yes, I'd be interested in your solution to snow, too :-)
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20:58:00  <andythenorth> planetmaker: we'll need a new png to provide the black footprint
20:58:05  <andythenorth> which is ok
20:58:13  <planetmaker> yup
20:58:18  <andythenorth> or we can put the sprites into the existing pngs
20:58:20  <planetmaker> could even be a separate sprite in the templates
20:58:40  <planetmaker> or part of the normal ground. Whatever you prefer
20:58:54  <andythenorth> hmm
20:59:06  <andythenorth> they get added to the existing pngs I think
20:59:20  <andythenorth> then the ground snow is put in the same sprite
20:59:22  <planetmaker> good
20:59:28  <planetmaker> easier :-)
21:01:34  <Hirundo> planetmaker: Did you use the tile_check callback yet for objects?
21:01:55  <planetmaker> for objects? Yes, iirc the wind powerplant uses it
21:02:11  <planetmaker> let's see
21:04:41  <planetmaker> yes, windpower plant uses it. why?
21:05:07  <planetmaker> as actually does company_land. But there it only returns 0 unconditionally
21:05:18  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have not considered construction sprites at any point for FIRS
21:05:29  <Hirundo> As you might know, the return values in NFO are essentially the same as for the equivalent industry callback, but with bit 10 toggled
21:05:45  <planetmaker> might be interesting, andythenorth. But not essential.
21:06:09  <andythenorth> so the differentiator is what should toggle visible / invisible
21:06:17  <planetmaker> Hirundo: if you want to break it... I don't mind
21:06:18  <Hirundo> I have a patch ready that toggles bit 10 for you automagically, so you can use the same predefined success / error messages etc
21:06:27  <andythenorth> so some of the flowerbeds etc can go on the 'ground' sprite too
21:06:30  <Hirundo> so yes it breaks, and it breaks silently
21:07:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, they could and probably should
21:07:29  <Hirundo> silent breakage == bad, so I thought you needed to know
21:07:42  <planetmaker> yep, that I appreciate :-)
21:07:51  <planetmaker> what would I have to do?
21:07:54  <andythenorth> hmm
21:08:12  <Hirundo> Use return values as documented here:
21:08:13  <Webster> Title: NML:Industries - GRFSpecs (at
21:09:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: want to draw the black footprint? :P
21:09:40  <planetmaker> well, currently I return 1 or another switch
21:11:59  <Hirundo> 1 would be equivalent to CB_RESULT_IND_DISALLOW_UNSUITABLE, methinks
21:12:07  <planetmaker> yes
21:12:28  <planetmaker> I disallow on steep slopes and adjacent to the same industry
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21:14:05  <Hirundo> Probably documentation and the names for the constants will need some amending too
21:14:11  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd prefer to not do that actually
21:14:18  <andythenorth> hmm
21:14:28  <andythenorth> we need a minion
21:14:57  <planetmaker> at least not now
21:17:22  <andythenorth> planetmaker: possibly it means we bounce some tickets from 0.7
21:17:41  <planetmaker> do the tickets include the black ground?
21:17:49  <andythenorth> not yet
21:18:10  <andythenorth> but it's the best way to handle ground snow
21:18:42  <andythenorth> it means refactoring the existing layouts of the spritesheets a little
21:18:49  <andythenorth> hmm
21:18:59  <andythenorth> would also mean changing some offsets in code I think
21:19:08  <andythenorth> not a lot though
21:19:37  <planetmaker> oh... the NML wiki got really nice :-)
21:20:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2821: Snow graphics for Glass Works (andythenorth) @
21:20:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2755: Grain Mill snow sprites need finishing (andythenorth) @
21:21:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3008 (Closed): cannot use return CB_FAILED; in graphics block callbacks. (foobar) @
21:21:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3009 (Rejected): CB_FAILED doesn't work in graphics block (Hirundo) @
21:21:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1630:0b2f766d8b8a: FIx: Use the parsed, not the unparsed result f... (Hirundo) @
21:21:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1631:6c062e467edd: Add: Class for handling varaction2 procedure c... (Hirundo) @
21:21:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1632:ada2a73d9ca5: Codechange: Handle CB_FAILED in one central lo... (Hirundo) @
21:21:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1633:230eac63547f: Codechange: Create a function to parse a proce... (Hirundo) @
21:21:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1634:1d4575fea261: Add: Functionality to do arithmetic on a CB re... (Hirundo) @
21:22:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1635:5e0aac6d30f7: Change: Make the object callback tile_check wo... (Hirundo) @
21:22:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1636:d710aac0304c: Change: Sanitize the conversion factor for the... (Hirundo) @
21:22:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3008 (Closed): cannot use return CB_FAILED; in graphics block callbacks. (Hirundo) @
21:22:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 79:9f7952dac1d7: Codechange: Use proper constants in the objects ti... (planetmaker) @
21:23:07  <planetmaker> ^ so now I should be safe, Hirundo?
21:26:25  <planetmaker> What we (in the future) should take notes of are the changes in NML which break existing code, so that people who use releases could get a guide at hand which tells them what things need looking at.
21:26:38  <planetmaker> For 0.2 it might now be a bit too late and too much hassle
21:27:08  <andythenorth> :)
21:27:11  <andythenorth> good night
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21:32:41  <Hirundo> planetmaker: Agreed
21:32:53  <Hirundo> for now, I'll add a note to the forum after I updated the wiki
21:32:53  <planetmaker> thanks
21:33:17  <planetmaker> ok
21:33:23  <planetmaker> should suffice
21:33:36  <Hirundo> Yexo: Can the docs/ directory be removed from the repo?
21:34:08  <planetmaker> Hirundo: I'd not yet do that - or were all pages reviewed to be complete?
21:34:21  <Ammler> Hirundo: I would add a index.html which redirects to wiki
21:34:30  <planetmaker> good idea ^
21:34:44  <planetmaker> maybe not redirect but link
21:34:46  <Ammler> so possible links to guides would still work
21:34:53  <planetmaker> oh. yes
21:35:04  <Ammler> well, yes a note that guide moved to wiki
21:36:34  <planetmaker> Hirundo: what about the examples... should they rather be moved to the tt-wiki's NML tutorial, too?
21:36:43  <planetmaker> or do we keep them?
21:37:07  <Hirundo> Yes they should be moved
21:37:23  <planetmaker> ok
21:45:29  <Hirundo> <-like this?
21:46:24  <planetmaker> sure, looks good
21:52:43  <planetmaker> good night
21:56:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1637:f4b41c5deb1c: Doc: Document that the docs are now deprecated... (Hirundo) @
21:57:01  <Ammler> 5 seconds is a bit short to read so much :-P
21:58:07  <Hirundo> I figured 5 seconds is already a long time to wait on *something* on the internet
21:58:58  <Hirundo> Though I read quite quickly, so my boredom threshold might not be exactly average
22:02:06  <Ammler> you know, what's there :-P
22:02:58  <Ammler> well, it is fine, if someone really wants to read it, he can disable redirect
22:05:32  <Ammler> Hirundo: btw., you know, it is a vcs?
22:05:45  <Ammler> instead rename, you could have used
22:05:53  <Ammler> :-)
22:06:18  <Hirundo> Not if I read the files on my local disk :)
22:06:34  <Ammler> of course
22:06:40  <Ammler> hmm
22:07:44  <Hirundo> I tend to do that often enough for firefox to list the NML docs first when typing 'index.html' in the address bar
22:08:05  <Ammler> well, that would be another reason to remove the files from tip
22:08:35  <Ammler> so people know, they need a old version for the docs
22:15:02  <Yexo> <Hirundo> Yexo: Can the docs/ directory be removed from the repo? <- I'd say after a thorough check that everything is moved to the wiki
22:20:56  <FooBar> I'd keep a license, readme and link to the wiki in the docs dir
22:21:23  <FooBar> and a notice in what revision the docs were removed, for anybody wanting to update to that revision
22:31:27  <Yexo> yes, indeed, it should be a removal of docs/*.html or so, not everything under docs/
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22:54:35  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1638:cd6c6000b148: Change: Rename location check constants to mak... (Hirundo) @
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22:58:20  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 80:2059bd3f1893: Fix: Adjust (again) for changes in NML's handling ... (Hirundo) @
22:59:02  <Hirundo> Did I mention yet that firs dependency checks are really slow (on cygwin, at least)
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23:06:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2506:e2d58a049c61: Fix: Adjust for changes in nml r1638. (Hirundo) @
23:06:46  <Hirundo> Any other grfs besides ogfx+landscape and FiRS that contain industries or objects?
23:07:29  <Yexo> not that I know off
23:09:43  <Lakie> Probably a few WIP projects but nothign released?
23:11:07  <Hirundo> There could be a few WIP (object?) projects out there indeed
23:12:06  <Lakie> Does FIRS use the newgrf framework?
23:12:23  <Lakie> I remember there being some reports on the tracker for it preforming badly on windows.
23:16:58  <Yexo> yes and yes
23:17:35  <Yexo> cygwin generally performs very bad for anything that includes a lot of file access, like make needs
23:23:04  <Hirundo> Is it possible to disable the dep check and run full recompile always, or does that take even more time (generating images from sources?)
23:24:39  <Yexo> not sure, there might be a flag for that
23:24:44  <Yexo> planetmaker and/or alberth will now more
23:43:13  <Hirundo> goodnight

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