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02:58:24 *** Lakie has quit IRC 05:54:12 <planetmaker> wah, nice :-) 05:54:33 <planetmaker> NML has meanwhile a nicer tutorial on how to write train NewGRFs than NFO ever had anywhere 06:02:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:18:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2512:6cf063c95f1f: Add: sprite layout template 'SPRITELA... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/6cf063c95f1f 06:34:15 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2513:791bf5de1212: Change: use SPRITELAYOUT_GROUND_NORMA... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/791bf5de1212 06:38:40 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2514:ac750e762d88: Change: improve appearance of Alumini... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/ac750e762d88 07:02:47 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 166:258dc204dd39: ... (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/258dc204dd39 07:20:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2515:63ae3a5f2b67: Change: source file to match r2514 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/63ae3a5f2b67 07:20:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2516:f535ef0ce261: Change: name sprite layouts for Plast... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f535ef0ce261 07:22:30 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:23:04 <planetmaker> well, for me that is like part of "rework / add snow", andythenorth 07:23:52 <andythenorth> hmm 07:24:44 <planetmaker> which many industries have anyway 07:24:57 <andythenorth> which is also related to ground detail graphics 07:25:31 <planetmaker> that rather fits better. yes 07:25:34 <planetmaker> that's exactly that 07:25:46 <andythenorth> we'll get them all at once probably 07:25:56 <andythenorth> sometime later 07:27:50 <Terkhen> hmm... the copper ore mine has animation sprites for the belts in the base set, but I don't see any animation ingame 07:28:21 <andythenorth> in FIRS, or default? 07:28:36 <Terkhen> default 07:28:40 <Terkhen> the same happens with the coal mine 07:29:02 <andythenorth> it's intermittent 07:29:06 <andythenorth> do you have animation off? 07:29:08 <Terkhen> oh, it's working now 07:29:09 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2517:bd1401552c21: Change: remove tile_concrete use from... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/bd1401552c21 07:29:14 <andythenorth> hmm 07:29:15 <Terkhen> yes, it's intermitent :P 07:29:28 <andythenorth> the plastics plant also has a 'tanks' shared tile 07:29:34 <andythenorth> needs replacing 07:29:41 <andythenorth> but I have to go out for a short time 07:37:06 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:48:09 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:53:32 *** JVassie has quit IRC 08:04:52 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:05:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I found again why I use make clean && make install 08:05:16 <andythenorth> changes to pngs aren't seen by the dep check 08:05:31 <planetmaker> hm 08:06:04 <andythenorth> in my case...I have a solution 08:06:14 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how many more days you should spend on dep checks 08:06:19 <andythenorth> make clean is not slow 08:06:26 <andythenorth> and it removes a source of doubt when testing 08:08:18 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2518:82f5c896a5f2: Change: remove use of shared tile_tan... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/82f5c896a5f2 08:14:08 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 08:17:11 <Terkhen> hg purge -a && make -j3 install :) 08:17:25 <Terkhen> that's what I do when something does not go as I expect 08:17:29 <Terkhen> purge is dangerous though 08:18:26 <andythenorth> yup 08:18:29 <andythenorth> I don't use it much 08:22:19 <planetmaker> purge is dangerous :-) 08:22:31 <planetmaker> I only use it preceeding by hg diff > temp.diff 08:26:59 <Ammler> if you need hg purge to "fix" your repo, you should report as bugreport :-) 08:27:31 <andythenorth> there are cases where it is useful 08:28:29 <Ammler> well, I meant bugreport to makefile framework 08:28:59 <andythenorth> :) 08:29:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2519:bfa47bb5cf57: Change: name sprite layouts for Ferti... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/bfa47bb5cf57 08:38:11 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2520:eea2ef723801: Change: remove use of tile_concrete_p... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/eea2ef723801 08:40:00 <andythenorth> few more done 08:40:03 <andythenorth> it's not hard :) 08:40:09 <andythenorth> just needs careful checking 08:40:38 <planetmaker> yup 08:40:57 <andythenorth> I have to take the baby to the park 08:41:06 <andythenorth> feel free to make commits in my absence :P 09:08:19 <Terkhen> I reported it already months ago, but I never checked what really causes it 09:40:42 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:15:45 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:22:50 *** JVassie has quit IRC 10:27:02 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 11:00:55 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:22:19 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:24:25 *** JVassie has quit IRC 11:24:48 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2521:015f4ec2794b: Change: Stockyard uses png instead of... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/015f4ec2794b 11:24:48 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2522:f5f7396d4ae2: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx files (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f5f7396d4ae2 11:36:32 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 11:38:55 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2523:d48d9f56fc6d: Change: remove use of tile_concrete_p... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d48d9f56fc6d 11:41:27 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 11:46:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2524:0a749e86cdca: Cleanup: remove use of generictiles.p... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0a749e86cdca 11:50:52 <andythenorth> Terkhen: ¿ do you fancy doing #2996 11:50:52 <Brot6> andythenorth: Terkhen: #2996 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2996 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 12:11:10 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:31:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2525:f00a55650df7: Change: use png for Cement Plant inst... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f00a55650df7 12:31:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2526:d08d90ecfb4f: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx file (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d08d90ecfb4f 12:31:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2527:bf07319ae8dc: Change: remove use of shared staithe ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/bf07319ae8dc 12:35:12 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2528:1f1d4b22dba4: Change: use png instead of pcx for Br... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/1f1d4b22dba4 12:35:13 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2529:c1624b70ff5c: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx file (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/c1624b70ff5c 12:50:18 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2530:cd5cdb0a5daf: Change: remove use of shared staithes... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/cd5cdb0a5daf 12:50:19 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2531:c998bf71e38e: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx for gen... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/c998bf71e38e 12:51:10 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #2986 (Closed): Merge tiles of industries with more t... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2986#change-7612 13:09:45 *** ODM has quit IRC 13:31:40 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:31:46 <Alberth> o/ 13:31:58 <planetmaker> hey Alberth :-) 13:39:44 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/firs_citiy.patch 13:40:37 <planetmaker> hm... care to just commit that, Alberth? 13:40:52 <andythenorth> typo fix? 13:41:07 <planetmaker> yes 13:41:18 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:41:22 <Alberth> me no member 13:41:29 <planetmaker> you a member 13:41:40 <Alberth> hi FooBar! long time no see 13:41:49 <planetmaker> ;-) 13:42:29 <planetmaker> salut FooBar 13:42:33 <FooBar> hi Alberth! Possibly, I've been on here a couple of times the past week or so, but not on a regular basis indeed :) 13:42:47 <FooBar> a hi to you too, planetmaker 13:42:54 <Alberth> I have no been here for months :) 13:43:03 <FooBar> well, that explains :) 13:43:36 <Alberth> FooBar: I am about to start doing some FIRS dutch translation, or is that still your job 13:43:36 <FooBar> chances are you were'nt on here while I was almost every day at the beginning of the summer vacation! 13:43:45 <FooBar> no, go right ahead 13:44:02 <FooBar> I've done some FIRS translating, but it's not my job per se 13:44:13 <planetmaker> Alberth: then go right ahead. I made sure you may commit before I said you should ;-) 13:44:31 <Alberth> planetmaker: I assumed as much, thanks :) 13:45:01 <planetmaker> that's the least I can do 13:45:04 <Alberth> I wandered off to Opendune some time :) 13:45:32 <planetmaker> wanderer between the worlds ;-) 13:47:25 <Alberth> hmm, the machine does not believe I should be able to change the repo 13:48:22 * planetmaker wonders whether NML already supports water features 13:49:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: you have developer rights 13:49:36 <Alberth> probably not using the right way to push 13:50:32 <FooBar> push using https and your DevZone credentials; then it should work 13:50:51 <planetmaker> default-push = https://alberth:XXX@push.openttdcoop.org/firs 13:50:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2996#change-7613 13:51:32 <planetmaker> maybe I mis-spelled your username 13:51:47 <planetmaker> I definitely mis-spelled your password :-P 13:52:19 <FooBar> You may also leave the alberth:XXX@ bit out, enable the keyring extension and have that take care of saving your credentials out of plain sight :) 13:52:36 <FooBar> but that's up to you 13:53:06 <planetmaker> yep, that's the better way 13:53:23 <Alberth> good idea, let's do that too now 13:54:25 * andythenorth wonders 13:54:44 <andythenorth> at some point before FIRS 1.0, the default industry layouts need re-implementing in FIRS code 13:54:55 <andythenorth> currently they just rely on the default definitions 13:55:05 <andythenorth> that means no animation, no tile boundary checks etc 13:55:18 <andythenorth> is that a savegame breaker? 13:55:47 <Ammler> FooBar: so you can confirm the extension keyring working? 13:56:00 <Ammler> then we maybe should mention that in the guides... 13:56:36 <Ammler> people like Eddi asked for it 13:56:37 <FooBar> Ammler: here it works fine! I do use it on Windows and using Tortoise though, so I have no idea how it handles on the commandline, but I assume that will be self-explanatory 13:56:37 <planetmaker> I'm not entirely sure, andythenorth 13:56:53 <andythenorth> me neither 13:56:57 <planetmaker> it will be, if the layout changes and different tileIDs are used than the default ones 13:57:12 <andythenorth> any industry using the default layout might just keep working though 13:57:12 <planetmaker> if we just draw different graphics on the old tileIDs: then we're safe 13:57:34 <andythenorth> the layout is effectively baked in when the industry is built 13:57:56 <andythenorth> probably should test that 13:58:06 <andythenorth> I don't fancy delaying 0.7 to rebuild all layouts 13:58:10 <planetmaker> change one tileID and it might break 13:58:17 <andythenorth> do you have them from opengfx+ 13:58:17 <andythenorth> ? 13:58:33 <planetmaker> re-use the same tileIDs (i.e. using several tiles as default ones do), and we're safe 13:58:55 <planetmaker> we have not re-defined many industry layouts 13:59:05 <planetmaker> we just touched a few spritelayouts 13:59:17 <andythenorth> hmm 13:59:25 <andythenorth> iron ore mine is getting 100% replaced some time 13:59:30 <andythenorth> that means savegame break anyway 13:59:34 <planetmaker> depends 13:59:53 <planetmaker> if you keep that layout, it's no break 14:00:07 <andythenorth> true 14:00:29 <planetmaker> thus making the default layout unavailable for construction would keep us on the safe side 14:00:45 <planetmaker> while keeping it in the code 14:01:00 <planetmaker> a bit ugly, but acceptable 14:01:22 <planetmaker> but then... how many people update newgrfs on a running map? 14:01:41 <andythenorth> no idea 14:01:47 <andythenorth> bananas doesn't offer that kind of info 14:01:52 <planetmaker> newgrf backward compatibility is probably quite exagerated. They simply should not be updated in savegames ;-) 14:02:00 <andythenorth> we can use a14 14:02:04 <planetmaker> eh? 14:02:10 <andythenorth> to prevent breakage 14:02:19 <planetmaker> of course. We should 14:02:27 <planetmaker> before 0.7 we need to up it anyway 14:02:44 <andythenorth> I guess we'll find reasons to break savegame one more time anyway before 1.0 14:02:46 <planetmaker> if we kill the default layouts instead of keeping it, we should update the min_compatible_version, too 14:02:49 <Ammler> FooBar: I guess, the nml rpm works as long as the distro uses pyhton 2.7 btw. 14:03:04 <Ammler> dunno, if that should be mentioned in the wiki 14:03:42 <Ammler> (also fixed some "SUSE styles" :-) 14:04:00 <FooBar> if that is the case, it is probably good to mention 14:04:02 <Ammler> long-long ago, as SUSE was S.u.S.E. 14:04:08 <Alberth> works! 14:04:16 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2532:8c7fb3fd4cd3: Fix: Typo fix in string name STR_ERR_... (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/8c7fb3fd4cd3 14:04:27 <FooBar> heh, yeah I new there was something about SUSE, just didn't know what :) 14:04:36 <andythenorth> so I really don't fancy #2996 14:04:37 <Brot6> andythenorth: #2996 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2996 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:04:43 <FooBar> go ahead if you want to add that note, Ammler 14:04:54 <andythenorth> I just don't have enough time without baby interruptions to learn to write complex nml from scratch 14:05:09 <andythenorth> it's the only blocker to a beta release for translators / bug reports 14:05:10 <Ammler> "pip install nml" could also be a possibility 14:05:28 <Ammler> but maybe not before 0.2 will released 14:06:51 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you create the nml e-mail address? 14:08:23 <FooBar> if there are more ways to get NML those of course can be added to the tutorial 14:08:38 <planetmaker> Ammler: I did not 14:09:08 <FooBar> as long as one is marked as "recommended" for users that can't choose it should be good to have other options listed 14:09:51 <Alberth> hmm, order of the strings is broken too, is that a general problem? 14:10:31 <planetmaker> you can use the order you want in your language file 14:10:45 <planetmaker> I re-grouped them in the German translation to match the English one 14:11:06 <Alberth> I did that for the dutch language too, last time :p 14:11:23 <planetmaker> sorry, it all broke hard during nfo->nml transition 14:11:29 <planetmaker> it needed a thorough re-ordering 14:11:44 <Alberth> But I am somewhat wondering to write a python script for it 14:12:02 <planetmaker> if you do, the other languages might profit from it. 14:12:12 <planetmaker> maybe... combine it with the supplied check language script 14:12:18 <planetmaker> iirc it's part of the repo 14:12:21 * andythenorth bbl 14:12:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:13:22 <Alberth> ieh, shell script :( 14:25:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:27:09 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1639:74a6b3a4074c: Change #2850: add author "NML Development Team... (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/74a6b3a4074c 14:27:59 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #2850: PyPI - the Python Package Index (admin) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2850#change-7614 14:38:59 <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 167:970621e45ae8: ... nothing good (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/970621e45ae8 14:40:36 <Alberth> check_language is easily fooled :p 14:42:48 * Alberth tries to fix it 14:43:52 <Ammler> Alberth: could be changed to python script, if you want :-) 14:44:14 <Alberth> that's what I am doing :) 14:44:17 <Ammler> hmm, there was also feature request for the commit check hook 14:44:25 <Ammler> (as you are here ;-) 14:44:38 * Alberth becomes invisible 14:44:49 <Ammler> I can't remember :-P 14:45:06 <Alberth> good, my cloak is working :p 14:45:59 <Alberth> you didn't start that python conversion yet, did you? 14:46:31 <Alberth> I probably also have to read patches 14:46:32 <Ammler> no, the only work I did was convincing Terkhen not to use extension .sh for his script ;-) 14:46:45 <planetmaker> @base 16 10 3C 14:46:45 <Webster> planetmaker: 60 14:47:05 <Alberth> 40-4 :) 14:49:18 <Ammler> Alberth: this is how the build script runs the check, if your rework does not fit that, you might need to tell me: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/entry/compiler/.default/nml/nml.spec#L43 14:50:17 <Alberth> oh, that should be workable 14:50:36 <Alberth> let's first try to imitate the current implementation :p 15:02:13 <Alberth> Ammler: what Python vesion do you run? 15:02:43 <Ammler> 2.6/7 15:02:54 <Ammler> devzone might still be 2.6 15:02:59 <Ammler> doe you need exact? 15:03:03 <Alberth> ok, will make it compatible 15:03:18 <Ammler> Python 2.6.5 15:03:52 <Ammler> but it can soon require 2.7... 15:04:15 <Alberth> there are some calls that are new in 2.7, but I will avoid them 15:06:47 <Ammler> hmm 15:07:00 <Ammler> the server runs 2.6.5 15:07:08 <Ammler> but the build script runs 2.7 15:07:11 <Ammler> check the logs 15:07:49 <Ammler> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/LATEST/log/firs-r2508-devzone.log <-- installing libpython2_7-1_0-2.7-8.4 15:08:32 <Ammler> but some people here still like to run it locally 15:08:50 <Ammler> and there it could be useful to run it with older python too, maybe even 2.5 15:08:59 <Alberth> yeah, so 2.5 or so compability is not a bad thing 15:09:24 <Ammler> 2.4 is not required 15:09:33 <Ammler> as nml doesn't work with it anyway, afaik 15:20:52 <V453000> is it possible to get somewhere a version of opengfx landscape without water coasts changed? I suppose some olllld ogfx landscape could have that 15:21:11 <Alberth> pull an old revision from the repo? 15:21:13 <Ammler> yes, of course 15:21:41 <Ammler> V453000: using tortoisehg is best for this 15:21:49 <Ammler> but else you can also use the hgweb 15:21:54 <Ammler> hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx 15:22:34 <V453000> I dont have tortoise here yet :) 15:22:42 <Ammler> hg log <path-to-png-which interests-you> 15:23:22 <V453000> isnt there any archive of compiled newgrfs? 15:24:12 <planetmaker> did you check bundles? 15:24:34 <Ammler> we could indeed archive a bit more bundles for opengfx 15:24:45 <planetmaker> But why do you want the old coasts? 15:24:52 <Ammler> :-) 15:25:05 <V453000> pm: not my idea, just a friend of mine wants it 15:25:20 <V453000> I will try to search in bundles :) finally found something, thanks 15:25:24 <Ammler> ah, I thought you want to work with it 15:25:58 <V453000> no I dont mind the coasts that much :) 15:26:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:26:49 <Ammler> you don't use ogfx :-P 15:27:07 <V453000> no but when I use opengfx+ 15:29:22 <V453000> hmm, just as I thought, in bundles ogfx-landscape is opengfx+ landscape ... I was searching for the old piece-of-opengfx newgrfs but still I quite doubt that there was a version which changed only full tiles and not coasts, that would probably look just ugly 15:30:36 <planetmaker> water, coast and land should always be one unity. 15:30:36 <Ammler> ogfx-land has still the old shores, doesn't? 15:30:46 <planetmaker> released grf might have, yes 15:31:26 <planetmaker> I always only test with nightlies :-P 15:31:49 <V453000> yes, dont worry, he will just live with what he gets probably :D 15:32:08 <Ammler> for me, only bananas grfs count :-) 15:32:13 <planetmaker> but I think Ammler's right. The bananified ogfx+landscape has no new shores 15:32:59 <planetmaker> for playing online: yes, that's the only important place for grfs to be, Ammler ;-) 15:33:08 <planetmaker> so currently one can play with different shores ;-) 15:33:17 <planetmaker> or chores :-P 15:33:25 <V453000> I know, the problem is thatmy friend wants totally not-opengfx shores 15:33:38 <V453000> which is ... about nonsense I suppose 15:33:47 <Ammler> I wonder, are the newwater shores still available? 15:34:05 <Ammler> or does ogfx+land have that optionla? 15:35:17 <V453000> no option there iirc 15:36:51 <V453000> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/shore.png you mean those? 15:37:26 <V453000> these are damn awesome :) 15:39:53 <Ammler> no, newwater are the huge shores 15:45:02 <planetmaker> then use those shores 15:45:08 <planetmaker> if they're that awesome 15:46:13 <Ammler> what is that newgrf? 15:47:01 <planetmaker> dunno. some ttd landscape newgrf it seems 15:47:27 <planetmaker> I've seen it before, but I don't recall 15:54:52 <V453000> no 15:54:54 <V453000> newwater 15:56:09 <FooBar> I still have newwater somewhere if you need it, but I assume it's still available on the forums as well. Search for posts by Leppka. 15:56:30 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you change opengfx shores for artic? 15:57:02 <planetmaker> eh? 15:57:13 <planetmaker> in what way? 15:57:30 <Ammler> well, the image is from arctic, isn't? 15:57:43 <V453000> FooBar: thanks, I have that :) 15:57:46 <planetmaker> it's OpenGFX which it shows 15:58:09 <planetmaker> Ammler: those are TTD ground tiles 15:58:12 <Ammler> those shores are indeed not big 15:58:20 <planetmaker> and TTD water probably, too 15:58:28 <V453000> nowhere near ttd water 15:58:32 <Ammler> planetmaker: looks more like newwater 15:58:43 <Ammler> which is used for ogfx, iirc 15:58:48 <V453000> wasnt that opengfx water at some point? (no clue) 15:59:02 <planetmaker> not as long as there are base sets 15:59:16 <V453000> http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0000B390.png ogfx water is different 15:59:26 <V453000> the current one at least 15:59:52 <planetmaker> that's what I'm saying 16:00:04 <Ammler> planetmaker: you just shorten the shores? 16:00:11 <Ammler> this is very strange 16:01:32 <Ammler> looks like arctic shores are same as temperate shores now 16:01:49 <planetmaker> Ammler: no, I reworked them. Which included to make them shorter, fitting adjacent tiles better and adding curvature 16:02:12 <planetmaker> the image shows sprites I've never seen the source of 16:02:44 <Ammler> why not newwater? 16:02:59 <Ammler> newwater was mostly seen in temperate and tropic 16:03:41 <V453000> newwater in tropic and temperate = opengfx ... at least with the older opengfx shores 16:03:56 <V453000> the only difference is in arctic afaik 16:04:08 <Ammler> how do the "old" ogfx arctic shores look? 16:04:25 <V453000> no clue 16:04:38 <Ammler> I would bet like the image from you 16:04:52 <planetmaker> Ammler: that has never been OpenGFX shores 16:04:58 <andythenorth> is that a MB grf? 16:04:58 <Ammler> :-) 16:05:28 <planetmaker> unless you prove me wrong, I tend to believe my memory 16:05:29 <Ammler> the image from V453000 is newwater, or didn't we agree on that? 16:05:38 <V453000> it is, that is not a question 16:05:44 <planetmaker> I didn't agree on anything as I don't know what it is 16:06:03 <V453000> I would still believe pm :p 16:06:30 * andythenorth does DIY 16:06:42 <planetmaker> And NewWater afaik is the water features which were merged into OpenGFX... but I might err 16:06:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how boring ;-) 16:06:56 <andythenorth> I've run out of newgrf 16:06:58 <planetmaker> it requires to actually *do* stuff ;-) 16:07:01 <andythenorth> and it needs to be done 16:07:11 <andythenorth> I have to add vents to my power cupboard 16:07:20 <andythenorth> otherwise I have to buy yet-another-router 16:07:29 <planetmaker> :-) 16:07:29 <V453000> no, new water features is a different newgrf under opengfx - new water features, but whatever :p 16:07:44 <Ammler> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/7/72/PSG179.png <-- ogfx shores 16:08:17 <Ammler> so I vote for a restore on the old ogfx arctic shores, maybe for ogfx-land ;-) 16:08:44 <V453000> are you sure there is not newwater? I created the map so it is likely 16:08:47 <Ammler> planetmaker: you really didn't like those? 16:09:16 <V453000> yes there is newwater in that game loaded 16:09:33 <Ammler> how you know? 16:09:39 <V453000> I opened the savegame 16:09:59 <planetmaker> Ammler: notice that it's a screenshot made with ttd baseset 16:10:17 <Ammler> ok :-) 16:10:50 <V453000> opened under opengfx it looks the same pm :) 16:11:19 <Ammler> V453000: and removed newwater? 16:11:30 <V453000> ofc not 16:11:38 <Ammler> well, I could just start openttd myself 16:12:03 <Ammler> but afaik, it isn't possible to load old bassets 16:12:17 <Ammler> V453000: what is your ogfx version? 16:12:29 <V453000> 0.3.4. 16:12:55 <planetmaker> Ammler: look at the screen... it is TTD... 16:13:28 <planetmaker> and as TTD looks different, it's a newgrf used in psg 179 16:13:55 <V453000> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/shoresogfx.png ogfx 0.3.4 16:14:05 <V453000> with newwater ofc 16:16:55 <Ammler> V453000: you miss my point 16:17:03 <Ammler> I think, that old ogfx is like that 16:17:04 <V453000> obviously :) 16:17:09 <V453000> I know 16:17:23 <Ammler> you know, then tell pm :-P 16:17:28 <V453000> no 16:17:33 <Ammler> no? 16:17:35 <V453000> I mean I get what you think but I do not think it is 16:17:41 <Ammler> ah ok 16:17:57 <Ammler> then use a pre pm-water-shores ogfx and check 16:18:14 <V453000> I myself used to think that but that was probably just because I somehow thought that newwater is a piece of opengfx, which it probably never was 16:18:46 <V453000> there are 2 ogfx shores,the current ones and the bigger ones, arent there? 16:19:02 <Ammler> hmm 16:19:19 <planetmaker> the old, large ones, and the newer, smaller, more curvy ones 16:19:19 <Ammler> arctic had those big shores too 16:19:24 <planetmaker> told you 16:19:26 <V453000> yes 16:19:51 <Ammler> so either zeph or foobar screw up there :-) 16:20:45 <Ammler> maybe it was easier to use the temperate thosres in arctic too, instead using newwater shores 16:23:10 <planetmaker> Ammler: it rather requires to adjust the ground tiles. They use a different texture 16:23:59 <planetmaker> hm, they also do in temperate 16:24:49 <planetmaker> hm, tropical beaches with NewWater also have a differently coloured sand 16:25:53 <planetmaker> and totally different ground colour actually 16:26:35 <planetmaker> I wonder whether the corresponding ground tiles still exist.. 16:28:53 <planetmaker> I don'T like the arctic shores being that straight as with a ruler 16:28:59 <planetmaker> looks... like a step back 16:29:23 <planetmaker> that changed it might make for an interesting addition 16:31:06 <andythenorth> bbl 16:31:08 <andythenorth> food 16:31:15 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:39:33 <FooBar> what did I screw up? 16:40:51 <planetmaker> once upon a time the shores in arctic in NewWater 16:41:17 <planetmaker> I'm sure they never were made for OpenGFX as they have different ground texture 16:41:41 <planetmaker> same actually for the shores in tropical which have different sand (and ground texture) 16:41:52 <planetmaker> it's a NewGRF from the pre-OpenGFX era 16:42:36 <Ammler> I guess, newwater was just used for temperate and then ported to arctic and tropic 16:43:16 <planetmaker> made to match TTD 16:44:09 <Ammler> FooBar: it was Zeph according to the credits 16:44:15 <FooBar> ah, good 16:44:17 <FooBar> :) 16:44:18 <Ammler> :-P 16:47:30 <FooBar> hmmm... where can I change my email address for the openttd unified login? 16:51:06 <FooBar> it's probably on the page that will be "finished in the very near feature" 16:51:18 <FooBar> whatever that may mean (yes, it says feature, not future :P) 16:55:04 <Ammler> tell it at #openttd and include a highlight to Truebrain and Rubidium 16:56:05 <planetmaker> FooBar: it's exactly on that page 16:56:41 <FooBar> ah, so it doesn't exist :) 16:56:50 <Ammler> :-) 16:57:09 <planetmaker> ping me a bit later today, if you like. gotta go shopping and eat something, might look after that 16:57:41 <Ammler> oh, can you do such things too now? 16:57:42 <FooBar> well, I'm not in a hurry to change my e-mail address at the moment, so no need to hurry for your either 16:58:10 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:58:11 <FooBar> so it's fine with me if you do the eating and shopping later :P 16:58:20 <FooBar> just kidding ;) 16:59:13 <Ammler> you can have a @openttdcoop.org, if you like... 17:00:05 <planetmaker> Ammler: I can change e-mail or reset passwords... 17:00:15 <FooBar> not needed, I have my own domain 17:00:22 <planetmaker> "things like that" is probably broader than I dare to touch 17:00:43 <FooBar> I just came up with the idea to have a different email address for every website I use 17:00:50 <planetmaker> he 17:00:54 <Ammler> FooBar: well, if you might want to hide it :-) 17:00:59 <planetmaker> any gain in that, FooBar? 17:01:19 <Ammler> FooBar: I do that too 17:01:36 <Ammler> <website>@ammler.ch 17:01:39 <FooBar> well, that way I can make my email public in some websites. Once I get too much spam on that email, I just delete it and make a new one 17:01:46 <FooBar> without having to change it for all websites 17:02:23 <Ammler> and you know, who to blame for the spam 17:02:39 <Ammler> but you do not get any spam with our server 17:02:50 <Ammler> so it wouldn't help :-) 17:03:04 <FooBar> No, I don't worry about spam from either openttdcoop or openttd. 17:03:20 <planetmaker> hotmail thinks we send spam ;-) 17:03:28 <FooBar> yes, I've seen the topic 17:03:30 <FooBar> silly hotmail 17:04:00 <FooBar> it surprises me a bit that it completely denies to accept the mail 17:04:07 <planetmaker> Quite so 17:04:18 <FooBar> normally you would expect that it would put it in the spam bin or so 17:04:31 <planetmaker> That's what I'd expect, too. 17:04:33 <Ammler> planetmaker: who is we? 17:04:39 <planetmaker> openttd.org 17:04:46 <planetmaker> in this case 17:04:53 <FooBar> so you can look there if you missed something; now you don't get the mail at all 17:05:10 <planetmaker> yup. that's a worrying behaviour imho. 17:05:39 <planetmaker> luckily in Germany that's not allowed really. 17:05:44 <Ammler> and why does hotmail think so? 17:05:59 <Ammler> broken relay? 17:09:47 <planetmaker> spam block list 17:10:12 <Ammler> yes, but there is a reason you get on such a list 17:11:27 <Brot6> nml: update from r1638 to r1639 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1639 17:13:55 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:15:42 <planetmaker> Ammler: if we knew why... that'd be helpful. Probably some other server within ovh within the IP range openttd is located was used as spam machine... Dunno 17:16:36 <Ammler> well, it is basically not your concern... 17:16:58 <Ammler> if someone uses hotmail, he hast lost anyway 17:17:58 *** JVassie has quit IRC 17:19:11 <planetmaker> lots of people do, though 17:19:29 <planetmaker> and it is our concern if our IP is on spam black lists 17:19:45 <planetmaker> for the false reasons 17:20:00 <Ammler> no 17:20:12 <Ammler> those obviously use a wrong list 17:21:13 <Ammler> so if they can't explain, why you are on that list, the list is worst 17:21:39 <Ammler> and they should also just remove you 17:22:27 <Brot6> firs: update from r2508 to r2532 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2532 17:23:27 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:24:18 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r251), narvs (r52), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r123), opengfx (r727), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r639), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1639), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), 17:24:18 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r109), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r80), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), 17:24:20 <Brot6> belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r132), comic-houses (r71) 17:30:28 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 17:31:04 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:32:02 *** JVassie has quit IRC 17:51:32 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 17:51:36 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains, narvs (11 warnings), ogfx-industries, foobarstramtracks, cets (436 warnings) (Diffsize: 462), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile, dutchtramset, swisstowns, dutchroadfurniture, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 2), frenchtowns, ogfx-rv, ogfx-landscape (1 warnings), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), 17:51:36 <Brot6> indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 1), airportsplus (2 warnings) 17:58:51 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:00:03 *** JVassie has quit IRC 18:03:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:08:03 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:20:25 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:26:32 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 18:57:54 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 728:128c53d2fe25: Doc: Sprites of the waterfeatures (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/128c53d2fe25 19:03:44 <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2964) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/ERROR/r22851 19:06:29 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 729:c41245676528: Codechange: Use no explicit sprite numbers for water features (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/c41245676528 19:08:58 <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22846 to r22851 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22851 19:10:31 <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2966) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r22851 19:12:08 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r22851 19:32:40 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:37:02 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:43:27 *** JVassie has quit IRC 19:48:36 <andythenorth> hmm 19:48:40 <andythenorth> what to code what to code 19:55:59 <andythenorth> maybe I should code 'sleep' :o 19:56:57 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 20:00:25 <Ammler> that is already implemented 20:00:43 <Ammler> or do you think, it is buggy? 20:27:25 <Alberth> bleh, language files got renamed :( 20:28:19 <andythenorth> in FIRS? 20:28:25 <Alberth> yep 20:28:32 <andythenorth> :( 20:29:50 <Alberth> so I need to pick up the old filename too after analyzing a diff 20:30:59 <Alberth> I don't think it is of use to do a full change track of each string to its last change in FIRS though, strings have been messed with too much 20:31:22 <andythenorth> I think the view was that translations would have to almost start from scratch 20:31:58 <Alberth> that could be quite valid :) 20:33:22 <Alberth> so my 450 lines of recursive back-tracking to the last change of each string is wasted on current FIRS :p 20:33:46 <andythenorth> :( 20:34:08 <andythenorth> if it's any consolation, we binned nearly 3 years worth of nfo and cpp :) 20:34:51 <Alberth> it got any smaller? 20:35:14 <andythenorth> not sure 20:36:04 <Alberth> in source code lines? 20:37:29 <andythenorth> probably approx same 20:37:35 <andythenorth> nml seems to be 36k loc 20:37:41 <andythenorth> nfo was something like that 20:38:47 <Alberth> so what it gains on high-level description, it gives away again on more verbose wording :) 20:38:58 <andythenorth> considerably more verbose 20:39:11 <andythenorth> loc are misleading though 20:43:40 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:43:50 <Alberth> good night 20:44:05 <andythenorth> bye Alberth 20:44:06 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 20:44:17 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 20:48:35 *** JVassie_ is now known as JVassie 20:59:50 <FooBar> Object tile_check callback tells me to and-mask extra_callback_info1 variable. Doesn't NML do this by itself and if not, how can I do this myself? (see http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Objects#Object_callbacks) 20:59:51 <Webster> Title: NML:Objects - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 21:01:15 <frosch123> unless there is no specific variable, you likely do it via "extra_callback_info1 & bitmask(0,1,2,3,4)" 21:01:18 <planetmaker> FooBar: and-masking is done the "usual way": variable & 0xFF for example 21:01:28 <planetmaker> or bitmask 21:01:40 <FooBar> hmmm, nasty 21:03:56 <frosch123> oh, supid ttdp is again not able to deal with steep slopes 21:05:38 <frosch123> wtf? the documentation of cb 157 is completely wrong .o 21:05:49 <frosch123> (compared to ottd implementation) 21:06:03 *** Lakie has quit IRC 21:07:20 <frosch123> well, there are like 3 lines at the bottom negating the rest 21:07:24 <frosch123> but they are wrong as well 21:08:59 <planetmaker> hm, FooBar, wrt wiki: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#Canals <-- you think it hurts to have the pseudo-code also in another colour? 21:09:00 <Webster> Title: RandomAction2 - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 21:09:25 <planetmaker> yes, I follow the argument... not sure it's worth the trouble though... 21:09:30 <Yexo> FooBar: for now use extra_callback_info1 & 0x0F, in the future NML will likely provide a variable named "tile_slope" or something like that which is only available in that callback 21:09:45 <planetmaker> frosch123: colour-distinction between pseudo code and real examples when using <pre> blocks? 21:09:53 <frosch123> FooBar: actually use extra_callback_info1 & 0x1f 21:09:56 <frosch123> slopes use 5 bits, not 4 21:10:41 <Yexo> frosch123: for cb 157? 21:10:49 <Yexo> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Land_slope_check_.28149.2F157.29 lists bit 0..3 as slope info 21:10:52 <Webster> Title: Callbacks - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 21:10:54 <Yexo> and bit 4..7 too, but mirrored 21:10:55 <FooBar> well, I decided to go with extra_callback_info1 & bitmask(0,1,2,3), so I'll have to add ,4 to that 21:10:56 <frosch123> Yexo: in ottd definitely 21:11:01 <frosch123> currently checking ttdp 21:11:08 <FooBar> I think the bitmask function makes more sense to unknowing users 21:11:11 <frosch123> Yexo: the description the wiki to total crap 21:11:15 <frosch123> only read the last paragraph 21:11:17 <frosch123> for objects 21:11:51 <FooBar> planetmaker: I'd rather have pseudocode in a different colour than example code. What those colours actually are I don't really care 21:12:00 <frosch123> Yexo: stations have no steep slopes, so that is fine 21:12:05 <frosch123> though not future-proof 21:12:49 <planetmaker> hm... is there an example for pre-wrap in use, FooBar? 21:12:53 <frosch123> planetmaker: i could understand if <blabla> would have different colour than 00 11 etc. 21:13:11 <frosch123> but different colour in examples and pseudo code is likely something i would not even notice :p 21:13:18 <planetmaker> :-) 21:13:23 <planetmaker> would you mind? 21:13:37 <frosch123> as long as it is readable :) 21:13:38 <planetmaker> black vs. dark blue? 21:13:47 <frosch123> the current blue is fine 21:13:56 <planetmaker> maybe light green on light red? ;-) 21:14:07 <frosch123> i saw some green which felt weird 21:14:26 <FooBar> planetmaker: language files in nml examples, e.g.: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Train_four_part_refit bottom of page 21:14:26 <planetmaker> for <code>, yes 21:14:27 <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial/Train four part refit - TTWiki (at www.tt-wiki.net) 21:14:35 <frosch123> red text is only for stuff which shall not be read :p 21:15:36 <planetmaker> :-) 21:15:49 <planetmaker> ok, I'll implement your suggestion, frosch123 21:15:53 <planetmaker> err... FooBar 21:16:00 <FooBar> depends a bit on your screen size if you can see the wrapping in effect 21:16:11 <planetmaker> 13" laptop. Yes, I do ;-) 21:16:40 <FooBar> On very small screens wrapping probably doesn't work out too well though 21:17:20 <FooBar> but try without the wrapping (edit and preview) and you'll see that that is even worse 21:17:41 <FooBar> makes the page three lightyears wide 21:18:21 <FooBar> If you don't like the wrapping, then all pre things must get an overflow:scroll style property 21:18:38 <Yexo> FooBar: "Without a railtypetable block you can still use the labels RAIL, MONO and MLEV, but there will be no guarantee that this works properly on OpenTTD with different custom railtype NewGRFs loaded." <- actually that should always work fine 21:19:09 <Yexo> and if it doesn't you can't fix it by creating a railtype translation table 21:19:09 <FooBar> can't a railtype grf redefine all default railtypes to something else? 21:19:22 <Yexo> it can change the graphics, yes 21:19:33 <FooBar> but not actually remove RAIL, MONO, MLEV? 21:19:39 <planetmaker> frosch123: in the nml section the <code> template is used for keywords and alike - which shows in green 21:19:42 <FooBar> in that case, yes it should work 21:19:51 <Yexo> even if it could, you wouldn't be helped by having a railtype translation table 21:20:06 <frosch123> Yexo: ttdp returns a 5 bit slope as well 21:20:38 <FooBar> hmmm, makes sense. Translate to <undefined> probably doesn't work very well. 21:20:44 <FooBar> I'll fix it 21:21:49 <Yexo> basically as long as you don't have a railtype translation table you'll have a default table with the values "RAIL", "MONO", "MGLV" (not MLEV!) 21:22:04 <Yexo> and NML defines ELRL as alternative to MONO (both have index 1) 21:22:49 <Yexo> If you've written the label in the table without quotes, don't use quotes here either. <- that doesn't matter, you can use quotes for the function 21:22:57 <Yexo> and if you want you can leave the function out and it'll still work 21:23:33 <Yexo> the function is only necessary for railtypes that start with a number, since 3RDR is invalid in NML because it starts with a number. "3RDR" is valid but is a string so can't be automatically mapped to a number, hence the function 21:23:50 <Yexo> advocating the use of railtype() is a good idea, but not strictly necessary 21:24:09 <FooBar> yes, I just saw about the MLEV :P In some places it' correct, in others it isn't :S 21:24:41 <planetmaker> FooBar: that'd be a search for bot replacement ;-) 21:25:03 <FooBar> no, I only used it on that page 21:28:34 <Yexo> page 3 got me reading about cb 1D. Why is the engine the related type and not the wagon? After all the cb is called on the engine 21:30:33 <FooBar> don't know. It's what the example form the NML source did and I gave it no further thought 21:31:01 <Yexo> sorry, that was not directed at you. Just randomly wondering about inconsistencies in the nfo spec 21:31:59 <FooBar> ok 21:33:11 <FooBar> anyways, if you see errors in the tutorial, feel free to fix them. If they are in the example code, they most likely need fixing in multiple places: once more at the code summary at the bottom of the page and then in the code summaries on all next pages :P 21:36:51 <planetmaker> btw... how useful would a NFO navbar be (similar to the NML one)? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:NFONavMain 21:36:52 <Webster> Title: Template:NFONavMain - GRFSpecs (at newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net) 21:37:46 <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you should hide tt-wiki from webster web thing 21:38:36 <Yexo> planetmaker: whenever I need to switch it's most of the time between Action0Feature and VarAction2Feature 21:38:36 <FooBar> planetmaker: for people who still use NFO it would be very useful I think. I've been thinking of that myself as well, including a thought to make the colours green :P 21:38:42 <Yexo> which are specific links that navbar doesn't provide 21:38:51 <planetmaker> Ammler: I've not much idea about webster... 21:39:19 <FooBar> maybe a "see also" navbar with selected links then 21:39:26 <planetmaker> Yexo: true. They could be added there or made feature-specific 21:39:43 <planetmaker> similar to how foobar did with NML 21:39:53 <Yexo> would be nice :) 21:40:07 <Ammler> @config supybot.plugins.Web.nonSnarfingRegexp 21:40:07 <Webster> Ammler: Global: m/openttdcoop|mybrute|pastebin|openttd|codecubes|ammler.ch|users.tt-forums.net" target="_blank">users.tt-forums.net|ttdpatch.net|paste.pocoo.org" target="_blank">paste.pocoo.org\/show/; #openttdcoop.devzone: m/openttdcoop|mybrute|pastebin|openttd|codecubes|ammler.ch|users.tt-forums.net" target="_blank">users.tt-forums.net|ttdpatch.net|paste.pocoo.org" target="_blank">paste.pocoo.org\/show/ 21:40:09 <Yexo> and yes, a general navbar is useful, also for nfo 21:41:45 <frosch123> depends what you put in it :p 21:42:06 <frosch123> there are actions you never use, and hidden subpages you need all the time :p 21:42:37 <planetmaker> quite so. Suggestions for the main NavBar are very welcome of what should go there 21:43:52 <frosch123> well, it looks nice, but i am not sure about the usability 21:44:17 <frosch123> stuff i use most are the varact2 pages and the callbacks page 21:44:27 <planetmaker> yes, same here 21:44:27 <frosch123> but listing all varact2 pages is way too much 21:44:33 <planetmaker> is it? 21:44:42 <planetmaker> maybe just varact2 21:45:02 <frosch123> anyway, i was wondering about something else 21:45:02 <Yexo> StringCodes is a useful page in conjunction with Action4 21:45:28 <frosch123> moving the current main page into the grfspecs namespace and putting a portal page on the frontpage 21:45:52 <frosch123> which would link to nfospecs, nml, common stuff (like cargolabels) and tools 21:46:40 <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe stuff belonging to the same feature should be linked 21:46:51 <planetmaker> yes, we agreed to that namespace change 21:46:57 <planetmaker> and yes, possibly should 21:47:10 <frosch123> i.e. when you are action 0 industries, you get links to varact2 industries, random bits industries, and industrytile stuff 21:47:11 <planetmaker> maybe via context-navbar :-) 21:47:18 <Yexo> FooBar: on http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Parameters 21:47:19 <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial/Parameters - TTWiki (at www.tt-wiki.net) 21:47:24 <frosch123> as well as linking to the related object or so 21:47:27 <Yexo> the <num> part for parameters is optional 21:47:39 <planetmaker> I wrote that, Yexo :-) 21:47:42 <FooBar> :) 21:47:44 <Ammler> www.tt-wiki.net 21:47:47 <Ammler> oki 21:47:51 <planetmaker> :-) 21:47:58 <Yexo> if you don't provide it nml will just number all parameters consequentially 21:48:02 <frosch123> otoh, action 5 - c, e - 14 might be hidden completely 21:48:06 <Yexo> ok, so planetmaker ^^ 21:48:23 <Yexo> as long as you don't reorder or remove any parameters you don't need to worry about <num> at all 21:50:24 <Yexo> I really like the Colour mapping callback example 21:50:41 <Yexo> now that would be a good comparison between nml and nfo code :p 21:51:14 <planetmaker> well, go for it :-) 21:55:54 <Yexo> meh, the generated nfo code is really ugly and can be done better 21:56:10 <Yexo> so maybe later 21:59:24 <frosch123> does nml have no special value for the "00 C0" result? 22:00:04 <Yexo> CB_RESULT_COLOUR_MAPPING_ADD_CC 22:00:18 <FooBar> the colour map example might be nice as comparison on the main page of the tutorial. I think the current comparison is not 'threatening' enough :P 22:00:44 <Yexo> yes, but before doing that I want to write some "readable" nfo 22:00:59 <frosch123> ah, so you can drop the "base_sprte_2cc + " 22:01:00 <Yexo> output from nmlc is hardly fair, as in this case the output is suboptimal 22:01:42 <FooBar> yes, I thought so about "base_sprte_2cc + ", but left it in as an example how to do it differently. 22:01:46 <Yexo> frosch123: but that makes the nfo code so much smaller while in nml code it's still readable :P 22:02:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: escape sequences are mandatory according to frosch, so you can't remove those from comparison :-P 22:02:38 <FooBar> was thinking palette_2cc(company_colour1, company_colour2) myself really 22:02:55 <Yexo> that results in really inefficient code 22:03:04 <FooBar> or CB_FAILED alternatively, as that should do the trick as well 22:03:41 <FooBar> 2cc colouring was already enabled in the properties, so I think that should work 22:03:48 <Yexo> I'd rather see another constant named CB_RESULT_COLOUR_MAPPING_DEFAULT_2CC or so 22:04:09 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7615 22:04:29 <frosch123> Ammler: only those which you use 22:05:49 <Ammler> frosch123: which is just stupid 22:05:55 <Ammler> (anyway) 22:06:13 <Yexo> mandatory for what? 22:06:14 <Ammler> who would define his own escape 22:06:21 <frosch123> well, everything is stupid what you do not understand 22:06:32 <Yexo> oh, in the nfo header? 22:06:38 <Ammler> that is not true, but much, indeed :-) 22:06:49 <frosch123> Ammler: ever heard of self-describing syntax? 22:07:05 <frosch123> ever noticed why action 0 sucks for every tool, while varact2 is simple? 22:07:48 <frosch123> ever wondered why every higher language uses header files writtin in its own syntax, instead of everything being built in? 22:07:53 <Ammler> frosch123: well, we can't blame you, you just extended existing code... 22:08:07 <frosch123> maybe you should read about language architecture? 22:08:09 <Ammler> would you seriously have done it that way? 22:08:36 <Yexo> Ammler: what is so wrong with it? 22:08:42 <Ammler> Yexo: useless? 22:08:44 <frosch123> Ammler: what annoys me is that you reasoning is wrong 22:09:02 <Ammler> everybody is using the default 22:09:25 <frosch123> Ammler: you assume everyone uses an uptodate grfcodec 22:09:32 <Ammler> frosch123: for the right reasoning you would need to understand it 22:09:38 <frosch123> so you fail to understand the concept of releases 22:09:53 <frosch123> you assume everythnig is always built-in 22:10:02 <frosch123> which is the stupidest thing to do for anything 22:10:29 <Ammler> frosch123: but the nfo sources don't have the escape in 22:10:54 <Ammler> so your reasoing is wrong too :-) 22:11:07 <frosch123> [00:04] <frosch123> Ammler: only those which you use 22:11:39 <frosch123> you only have to define what you use 22:12:42 <Ammler> so all the devzone projects don't use any escapes? 22:13:15 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#change-7615 22:14:29 <frosch123> shall we break them? 22:15:44 <Ammler> hehe, you said, it is mandatory :-P 22:15:58 <frosch123> just because something still works, does not mean it is correct 22:16:11 <frosch123> it's the different between good code and a hack 22:16:53 <frosch123> if you consider something done as soon as it works, i am sorry for you 22:16:58 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:17:30 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3013 (New): Early steam engines (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3013 22:21:19 <FooBar> I'm off, bye 22:21:24 <Ammler> well, as nobody is using it and you do not ask people to use it, you will never be able to make use of it, so you never will be able to change an escaple 22:21:53 <Ammler> that is why useless 22:22:17 <frosch123> yup, prototypes are useless in c as well 22:22:26 <frosch123> the code compiles quite well without 22:22:56 *** FooBar has quit IRC 22:23:27 <frosch123> and if you think it is about changing the meaning of escapes, then you still did not understand it 22:23:48 <frosch123> including an headerfile is not about changing the meaning of a function 22:24:48 <Yexo> Ammler: openttd r20332 added a new varaction2 operator. The escape for that is >>, by defining that escape in the header you can compile a nfo file that uses that new escape even with older nforenum / grfcodec versions 22:25:11 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3013: Early steam engines (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3013#change-7616 22:30:57 <Yexo> planetmaker: by using sprite: spriteset_fingerpost_3(3); (page Object_graphics) aren't you using the advanced sprite layouts already? 22:31:23 <planetmaker> I'd assume so, yes? 22:31:38 <Yexo> because two pages later you warn that the rest of that page only works with a certain version of openttd 22:31:55 <Yexo> perhaps you should move that warning forward or adjust the earlier example not to use the advanced sprite layouts 22:32:00 <planetmaker> which will be pointless as OpenTTD won't load the NewGRF then 22:32:09 <planetmaker> nor show the error message actually 22:32:33 <planetmaker> But it sounds like text I haven't written ;-) 22:32:58 <Yexo> sorry, you're right 22:33:03 <Yexo> it is by FooBar 22:33:20 <planetmaker> the parameter page is about the only tutorial page I wrote ;-) 22:33:37 <Yexo> after that mistake I kindof assumed you wrote the rest without checking 22:34:01 <planetmaker> FooBar is quick :-) 22:34:43 <planetmaker> the object tutorial must be from today 22:45:33 *** JVassie has quit IRC 22:46:00 <planetmaker> I added a version of a NavBar for NFO for vehicles. I guess similar would work for other features, too 22:46:17 <planetmaker> Interesting will be what to do with the pages of general interest like StringCodes etc 22:47:04 <frosch123> we need to extent the introductions on the pages :p 22:47:26 <frosch123> if the navigation reaches to the tables, they get too small 22:48:24 <planetmaker> hm 22:49:16 <planetmaker> I see what you mean 22:49:48 <planetmaker> though it's ok when I use my screen's width 22:51:19 <planetmaker> RV and ships could possibly profit from wider tables 22:51:45 <frosch123> for rv the table of contents is long enough for me 22:52:07 <frosch123> (unless it is hidden) 22:55:58 <planetmaker> hm... and I all started this as I wanted to fix OpenGFX river mouths... 23:19:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC