Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 27th August 2011:
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02:58:24  *** Lakie has quit IRC
05:54:12  <planetmaker> wah, nice :-)
05:54:33  <planetmaker> NML has meanwhile a nicer tutorial on how to write train NewGRFs than NFO ever had anywhere
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06:18:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2512:6cf063c95f1f: Add: sprite layout template 'SPRITELA... (planetmaker) @
06:34:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2513:791bf5de1212: Change: use SPRITELAYOUT_GROUND_NORMA... (andythenorth) @
06:38:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2514:ac750e762d88: Change: improve appearance of Alumini... (andythenorth) @
07:02:47  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 166:258dc204dd39: ... (krinn) @
07:20:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2515:63ae3a5f2b67: Change: source file to match r2514 (andythenorth) @
07:20:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2516:f535ef0ce261: Change: name sprite layouts for Plast... (andythenorth) @
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07:23:04  <planetmaker> well, for me that is like part of "rework / add snow", andythenorth
07:23:52  <andythenorth> hmm
07:24:44  <planetmaker> which many industries have anyway
07:24:57  <andythenorth> which is also related to ground detail graphics
07:25:31  <planetmaker> that rather fits better. yes
07:25:34  <planetmaker> that's exactly that
07:25:46  <andythenorth> we'll get them all at once probably
07:25:56  <andythenorth> sometime later
07:27:50  <Terkhen> hmm... the copper ore mine has animation sprites for the belts in the base set, but I don't see any animation ingame
07:28:21  <andythenorth> in FIRS, or default?
07:28:36  <Terkhen> default
07:28:40  <Terkhen> the same happens with the coal mine
07:29:02  <andythenorth> it's intermittent
07:29:06  <andythenorth> do you have animation off?
07:29:08  <Terkhen> oh, it's working now
07:29:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2517:bd1401552c21: Change: remove tile_concrete use from... (andythenorth) @
07:29:14  <andythenorth> hmm
07:29:15  <Terkhen> yes, it's intermitent :P
07:29:28  <andythenorth> the plastics plant also has a 'tanks' shared tile
07:29:34  <andythenorth> needs replacing
07:29:41  <andythenorth> but I have to go out for a short time
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08:05:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I found again why I use make clean && make install
08:05:16  <andythenorth> changes to pngs aren't seen by the dep check
08:05:31  <planetmaker> hm
08:06:04  <andythenorth> in my case...I have a solution
08:06:14  <andythenorth> I'm not sure how many more days you should spend on dep checks
08:06:19  <andythenorth> make clean is not slow
08:06:26  <andythenorth> and it removes a source of doubt when testing
08:08:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2518:82f5c896a5f2: Change: remove use of shared tile_tan... (andythenorth) @
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08:17:11  <Terkhen> hg purge -a && make -j3 install :)
08:17:25  <Terkhen> that's what I do when something does not go as I expect
08:17:29  <Terkhen> purge is dangerous though
08:18:26  <andythenorth> yup
08:18:29  <andythenorth> I don't use it much
08:22:19  <planetmaker> purge is dangerous :-)
08:22:31  <planetmaker> I only use it preceeding by hg diff > temp.diff
08:26:59  <Ammler> if you need hg purge to "fix" your repo, you should report as bugreport :-)
08:27:31  <andythenorth> there are cases where it is useful
08:28:29  <Ammler> well, I meant bugreport to makefile framework
08:28:59  <andythenorth> :)
08:29:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2519:bfa47bb5cf57: Change: name sprite layouts for Ferti... (andythenorth) @
08:38:11  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2520:eea2ef723801: Change: remove use of tile_concrete_p... (andythenorth) @
08:40:00  <andythenorth> few more done
08:40:03  <andythenorth> it's not hard :)
08:40:09  <andythenorth> just needs careful checking
08:40:38  <planetmaker> yup
08:40:57  <andythenorth> I have to take the baby to the park
08:41:06  <andythenorth> feel free to make commits in my absence :P
09:08:19  <Terkhen> I reported it already months ago, but I never checked what really causes it
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11:24:48  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2521:015f4ec2794b: Change: Stockyard uses png instead of... (andythenorth) @
11:24:48  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2522:f5f7396d4ae2: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx files (andythenorth) @
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11:38:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2523:d48d9f56fc6d: Change: remove use of tile_concrete_p... (andythenorth) @
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11:46:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2524:0a749e86cdca: Cleanup: remove use of generictiles.p... (andythenorth) @
11:50:52  <andythenorth> Terkhen: ¿ do you fancy doing #2996
11:50:52  <Brot6> andythenorth: Terkhen: #2996 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
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12:31:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2525:f00a55650df7: Change: use png for Cement Plant inst... (andythenorth) @
12:31:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2526:d08d90ecfb4f: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx file (andythenorth) @
12:31:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2527:bf07319ae8dc: Change: remove use of shared staithe ... (andythenorth) @
12:35:12  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2528:1f1d4b22dba4: Change: use png instead of pcx for Br... (andythenorth) @
12:35:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2529:c1624b70ff5c: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx file (andythenorth) @
12:50:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2530:cd5cdb0a5daf: Change: remove use of shared staithes... (andythenorth) @
12:50:19  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2531:c998bf71e38e: Cleanup: remove un-needed pcx for gen... (andythenorth) @
12:51:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #2986 (Closed): Merge tiles of industries with more t... (andythenorth) @
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13:31:46  <Alberth> o/
13:31:58  <planetmaker> hey Alberth :-)
13:39:44  <Alberth>
13:40:37  <planetmaker> hm... care to just commit that, Alberth?
13:40:52  <andythenorth> typo fix?
13:41:07  <planetmaker> yes
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13:41:22  <Alberth> me no member
13:41:29  <planetmaker> you a member
13:41:40  <Alberth> hi FooBar!    long time no see
13:41:49  <planetmaker> ;-)
13:42:29  <planetmaker> salut FooBar
13:42:33  <FooBar> hi Alberth! Possibly, I've been on here a couple of times the past week or so, but not on a regular basis indeed :)
13:42:47  <FooBar> a hi to you too, planetmaker
13:42:54  <Alberth> I have no been here for months :)
13:43:03  <FooBar> well, that explains :)
13:43:36  <Alberth> FooBar: I am about to start doing some FIRS dutch translation, or is that still your job
13:43:36  <FooBar> chances are you were'nt on here while I was almost every day at the beginning of the summer vacation!
13:43:45  <FooBar> no, go right ahead
13:44:02  <FooBar> I've done some FIRS translating, but it's not my job per se
13:44:13  <planetmaker> Alberth: then go right ahead. I made sure you may commit before I said you should ;-)
13:44:31  <Alberth> planetmaker: I assumed as much, thanks :)
13:45:01  <planetmaker> that's the least I can do
13:45:04  <Alberth> I wandered off to Opendune some time :)
13:45:32  <planetmaker> wanderer between the worlds ;-)
13:47:25  <Alberth> hmm, the machine does not believe I should be able to change the repo
13:48:22  * planetmaker wonders whether NML already supports water features
13:49:11  <andythenorth> Alberth: you have developer rights
13:49:36  <Alberth> probably not using the right way to push
13:50:32  <FooBar> push using https and your DevZone credentials; then it should work
13:50:51  <planetmaker> default-push =
13:50:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet (andythenorth) @
13:51:32  <planetmaker> maybe I mis-spelled your username
13:51:47  <planetmaker> I definitely mis-spelled your password :-P
13:52:19  <FooBar> You may also leave the alberth:XXX@ bit out, enable the keyring extension and have that take care of saving your credentials out of plain sight :)
13:52:36  <FooBar> but that's up to you
13:53:06  <planetmaker> yep, that's the better way
13:53:23  <Alberth> good idea, let's do that too now
13:54:25  * andythenorth wonders
13:54:44  <andythenorth> at some point before FIRS 1.0, the default industry layouts need re-implementing in FIRS code
13:54:55  <andythenorth> currently they just rely on the default definitions
13:55:05  <andythenorth> that means no animation, no tile boundary checks etc
13:55:18  <andythenorth> is that a savegame breaker?
13:55:47  <Ammler> FooBar: so you can confirm the extension keyring working?
13:56:00  <Ammler> then we maybe should mention that in the guides...
13:56:36  <Ammler> people like Eddi asked for it
13:56:37  <FooBar> Ammler: here it works fine! I do use it on Windows and using Tortoise though, so I have no idea how it handles on the commandline, but I assume that will be self-explanatory
13:56:37  <planetmaker> I'm not entirely sure, andythenorth
13:56:53  <andythenorth> me neither
13:56:57  <planetmaker> it will be, if the layout changes and different tileIDs are used than the default ones
13:57:12  <andythenorth> any industry using the default layout might just keep working though
13:57:12  <planetmaker> if we just draw different graphics on the old tileIDs: then we're safe
13:57:34  <andythenorth> the layout is effectively baked in when the industry is built
13:57:56  <andythenorth> probably should test that
13:58:06  <andythenorth> I don't fancy delaying 0.7 to rebuild all layouts
13:58:10  <planetmaker> change one tileID and it might break
13:58:17  <andythenorth> do you have them from opengfx+
13:58:17  <andythenorth> ?
13:58:33  <planetmaker> re-use the same tileIDs (i.e. using several tiles as default ones do), and we're safe
13:58:55  <planetmaker> we have not re-defined many industry layouts
13:59:05  <planetmaker> we just touched a few spritelayouts
13:59:17  <andythenorth> hmm
13:59:25  <andythenorth> iron ore mine is getting 100% replaced some time
13:59:30  <andythenorth> that means savegame break anyway
13:59:34  <planetmaker> depends
13:59:53  <planetmaker> if you keep that layout, it's no break
14:00:07  <andythenorth> true
14:00:29  <planetmaker> thus making the default layout unavailable for construction would keep us on the safe side
14:00:45  <planetmaker> while keeping it in the code
14:01:00  <planetmaker> a bit ugly, but acceptable
14:01:22  <planetmaker> but then... how many people update newgrfs on a running map?
14:01:41  <andythenorth> no idea
14:01:47  <andythenorth> bananas doesn't offer that kind of info
14:01:52  <planetmaker> newgrf backward compatibility is probably quite exagerated. They simply should not be updated in savegames ;-)
14:02:00  <andythenorth> we can use a14
14:02:04  <planetmaker> eh?
14:02:10  <andythenorth> to prevent breakage
14:02:19  <planetmaker> of course. We should
14:02:27  <planetmaker> before 0.7 we need to up it anyway
14:02:44  <andythenorth> I guess we'll find reasons to break savegame one more time anyway before 1.0
14:02:46  <planetmaker> if we kill the default layouts instead of keeping it, we should update the min_compatible_version, too
14:02:49  <Ammler> FooBar: I guess, the nml rpm works as long as the distro uses pyhton 2.7 btw.
14:03:04  <Ammler> dunno, if that should be mentioned in the wiki
14:03:42  <Ammler> (also fixed some "SUSE styles" :-)
14:04:00  <FooBar> if that is the case, it is probably good to mention
14:04:02  <Ammler> long-long ago, as SUSE was S.u.S.E.
14:04:08  <Alberth> works!
14:04:16  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2532:8c7fb3fd4cd3: Fix: Typo fix in string name STR_ERR_... (Alberth) @
14:04:27  <FooBar> heh, yeah I new there was something about SUSE, just didn't know what :)
14:04:36  <andythenorth> so I really don't fancy #2996
14:04:37  <Brot6> andythenorth: #2996 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2996: Split cargo label for Sugar Cane / Sugar Beet - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
14:04:43  <FooBar> go ahead if you want to add that note, Ammler
14:04:54  <andythenorth> I just don't have enough time without baby interruptions to learn to write complex nml from scratch
14:05:09  <andythenorth> it's the only blocker to a beta release for translators / bug reports
14:05:10  <Ammler> "pip install nml" could also be a possibility
14:05:28  <Ammler> but maybe not before 0.2 will released
14:06:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you create the nml e-mail address?
14:08:23  <FooBar> if there are more ways to get NML those of course can be added to the tutorial
14:08:38  <planetmaker> Ammler: I did not
14:09:08  <FooBar> as long as one is marked as "recommended" for users that can't choose it should be good to have other options listed
14:09:51  <Alberth> hmm, order of the strings is broken too, is that a general problem?
14:10:31  <planetmaker> you can use the order you want in your language file
14:10:45  <planetmaker> I re-grouped them in the German translation to match the English one
14:11:06  <Alberth> I did that for the dutch language too, last time :p
14:11:23  <planetmaker> sorry, it all broke hard during nfo->nml transition
14:11:29  <planetmaker> it needed a thorough re-ordering
14:11:44  <Alberth> But I am somewhat wondering to write a python script for it
14:12:02  <planetmaker> if you do, the other languages might profit from it.
14:12:12  <planetmaker> maybe... combine it with the supplied check language script
14:12:18  <planetmaker> iirc it's part of the repo
14:12:21  * andythenorth bbl
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14:13:22  <Alberth> ieh, shell script :(
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14:27:09  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1639:74a6b3a4074c: Change #2850: add author "NML Development Team... (Ammler) @
14:27:59  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #2850: PyPI - the Python Package Index (admin) @
14:38:59  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 167:970621e45ae8: ... nothing good (krinn) @
14:40:36  <Alberth> check_language is easily fooled :p
14:42:48  * Alberth tries to fix it
14:43:52  <Ammler> Alberth: could be changed to python script, if you want :-)
14:44:14  <Alberth> that's what I am doing :)
14:44:17  <Ammler> hmm, there was also feature request for the commit check hook
14:44:25  <Ammler> (as you are here ;-)
14:44:38  * Alberth becomes invisible
14:44:49  <Ammler> I can't remember :-P
14:45:06  <Alberth> good, my cloak is working :p
14:45:59  <Alberth> you didn't start that python conversion yet, did you?
14:46:31  <Alberth> I probably also have to read patches
14:46:32  <Ammler> no, the only work I did was convincing Terkhen not to use extension .sh for his script ;-)
14:46:45  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 3C
14:46:45  <Webster> planetmaker: 60
14:47:05  <Alberth> 40-4 :)
14:49:18  <Ammler> Alberth: this is how the build script runs the check, if your rework does not fit that, you might need to tell me:
14:50:17  <Alberth> oh, that should be workable
14:50:36  <Alberth> let's first try to imitate the current implementation :p
15:02:13  <Alberth> Ammler: what Python vesion do you run?
15:02:43  <Ammler> 2.6/7
15:02:54  <Ammler> devzone might still be 2.6
15:02:59  <Ammler> doe you need exact?
15:03:03  <Alberth> ok, will make it compatible
15:03:18  <Ammler> Python 2.6.5
15:03:52  <Ammler> but it can soon require 2.7...
15:04:15  <Alberth> there are some calls that are new in 2.7, but I will avoid them
15:06:47  <Ammler> hmm
15:07:00  <Ammler> the server runs 2.6.5
15:07:08  <Ammler> but the build script runs 2.7
15:07:11  <Ammler> check the logs
15:07:49  <Ammler> <-- installing libpython2_7-1_0-2.7-8.4
15:08:32  <Ammler> but some people here still like to run it locally
15:08:50  <Ammler> and there it could be useful to run it with older python too, maybe even 2.5
15:08:59  <Alberth> yeah, so 2.5 or so compability is not a bad thing
15:09:24  <Ammler> 2.4 is not required
15:09:33  <Ammler> as nml doesn't work with it anyway, afaik
15:20:52  <V453000> is it possible to get somewhere a version of opengfx landscape without water coasts changed? I suppose some olllld ogfx landscape could have that
15:21:11  <Alberth> pull an old revision from the repo?
15:21:13  <Ammler> yes, of course
15:21:41  <Ammler> V453000: using tortoisehg is best for this
15:21:49  <Ammler> but else you can also use the hgweb
15:21:54  <Ammler>
15:22:34  <V453000> I dont have tortoise here yet :)
15:22:42  <Ammler> hg log <path-to-png-which interests-you>
15:23:22  <V453000> isnt there any archive of compiled newgrfs?
15:24:12  <planetmaker> did you check bundles?
15:24:34  <Ammler> we could indeed archive a bit more bundles for opengfx
15:24:45  <planetmaker> But why do you want the old coasts?
15:24:52  <Ammler> :-)
15:25:05  <V453000> pm: not my idea, just a friend of mine wants it
15:25:20  <V453000> I will try to search in bundles :) finally found something, thanks
15:25:24  <Ammler> ah, I thought you want to work with it
15:25:58  <V453000> no I dont mind the coasts that much :)
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15:26:49  <Ammler> you don't use ogfx :-P
15:27:07  <V453000> no but when I use opengfx+
15:29:22  <V453000> hmm, just as I thought, in bundles ogfx-landscape is opengfx+ landscape ... I was searching for the old piece-of-opengfx newgrfs but still I quite doubt that there was a version which changed only full tiles and not coasts, that would probably look just ugly
15:30:36  <planetmaker> water, coast and land should always be one unity.
15:30:36  <Ammler> ogfx-land has still the old shores, doesn't?
15:30:46  <planetmaker> released grf might have, yes
15:31:26  <planetmaker> I always only test with nightlies :-P
15:31:49  <V453000> yes, dont worry, he will just live with what he gets probably :D
15:32:08  <Ammler> for me, only bananas grfs count :-)
15:32:13  <planetmaker> but I think Ammler's right. The bananified ogfx+landscape has no new shores
15:32:59  <planetmaker> for playing online: yes, that's the only important place for grfs to be, Ammler ;-)
15:33:08  <planetmaker> so currently one can play with different shores ;-)
15:33:17  <planetmaker> or chores :-P
15:33:25  <V453000> I know, the problem is thatmy friend wants totally not-opengfx shores
15:33:38  <V453000> which is ... about nonsense I suppose
15:33:47  <Ammler> I wonder, are the newwater shores still available?
15:34:05  <Ammler> or does ogfx+land have that optionla?
15:35:17  <V453000> no option there iirc
15:36:51  <V453000> you mean those?
15:37:26  <V453000> these are damn awesome :)
15:39:53  <Ammler> no, newwater are the huge shores
15:45:02  <planetmaker> then use those shores
15:45:08  <planetmaker> if they're that awesome
15:46:13  <Ammler> what is that newgrf?
15:47:01  <planetmaker> dunno. some ttd landscape newgrf it seems
15:47:27  <planetmaker> I've seen it before, but I don't recall
15:54:52  <V453000> no
15:54:54  <V453000> newwater
15:56:09  <FooBar> I still have newwater somewhere if you need it, but I assume it's still available on the forums as well. Search for posts by Leppka.
15:56:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you change opengfx shores for artic?
15:57:02  <planetmaker> eh?
15:57:13  <planetmaker> in what way?
15:57:30  <Ammler> well, the image is from arctic, isn't?
15:57:43  <V453000> FooBar: thanks, I have that :)
15:57:46  <planetmaker> it's OpenGFX which it shows
15:58:09  <planetmaker> Ammler: those are TTD ground tiles
15:58:12  <Ammler> those shores are indeed not big
15:58:20  <planetmaker> and TTD water probably, too
15:58:28  <V453000> nowhere near ttd water
15:58:32  <Ammler> planetmaker: looks more like newwater
15:58:43  <Ammler> which is used for ogfx, iirc
15:58:48  <V453000> wasnt that opengfx water at some point? (no clue)
15:59:02  <planetmaker> not as long as there are base sets
15:59:16  <V453000> ogfx water is different
15:59:26  <V453000> the current one at least
15:59:52  <planetmaker> that's what I'm saying
16:00:04  <Ammler> planetmaker: you just shorten the shores?
16:00:11  <Ammler> this is very strange
16:01:32  <Ammler> looks like arctic shores are same as temperate shores now
16:01:49  <planetmaker> Ammler: no, I reworked them. Which included to make them shorter, fitting adjacent tiles better and adding curvature
16:02:12  <planetmaker> the image shows sprites I've never seen the source of
16:02:44  <Ammler> why not newwater?
16:02:59  <Ammler> newwater was mostly seen in temperate and tropic
16:03:41  <V453000> newwater in tropic and temperate = opengfx ... at least with the older opengfx shores
16:03:56  <V453000> the only difference is in arctic afaik
16:04:08  <Ammler> how do the "old" ogfx arctic shores look?
16:04:25  <V453000> no clue
16:04:38  <Ammler> I would bet like the image from you
16:04:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: that has never been OpenGFX shores
16:04:58  <andythenorth> is that a MB grf?
16:04:58  <Ammler> :-)
16:05:28  <planetmaker> unless you prove me wrong, I tend to believe my memory
16:05:29  <Ammler> the image from V453000 is newwater, or didn't we agree on that?
16:05:38  <V453000> it is, that is not a question
16:05:44  <planetmaker> I didn't agree on anything as I don't know what it is
16:06:03  <V453000> I would still believe pm :p
16:06:30  * andythenorth does DIY
16:06:42  <planetmaker> And NewWater afaik is the water features which were merged into OpenGFX... but I might err
16:06:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth: how boring ;-)
16:06:56  <andythenorth> I've run out of newgrf
16:06:58  <planetmaker> it requires to actually *do* stuff ;-)
16:07:01  <andythenorth> and it needs to be done
16:07:11  <andythenorth> I have to add vents to my power cupboard
16:07:20  <andythenorth> otherwise I have to buy yet-another-router
16:07:29  <planetmaker> :-)
16:07:29  <V453000> no, new water features is a different newgrf under opengfx - new water features, but whatever :p
16:07:44  <Ammler> <-- ogfx shores
16:08:17  <Ammler> so I vote for a restore on the old ogfx arctic shores, maybe for ogfx-land ;-)
16:08:44  <V453000> are you sure there is not newwater? I created the map so it is likely
16:08:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: you really didn't like those?
16:09:16  <V453000> yes  there is newwater in that game loaded
16:09:33  <Ammler> how you know?
16:09:39  <V453000> I opened the savegame
16:09:59  <planetmaker> Ammler: notice that it's a screenshot made with ttd baseset
16:10:17  <Ammler> ok :-)
16:10:50  <V453000> opened under opengfx it looks the same pm :)
16:11:19  <Ammler> V453000: and removed newwater?
16:11:30  <V453000> ofc not
16:11:38  <Ammler> well, I could just start openttd myself
16:12:03  <Ammler> but afaik, it isn't possible to load old bassets
16:12:17  <Ammler> V453000: what is your ogfx version?
16:12:29  <V453000> 0.3.4.
16:12:55  <planetmaker> Ammler: look at the screen... it is TTD...
16:13:28  <planetmaker> and as TTD looks different, it's a newgrf used in psg 179
16:13:55  <V453000> ogfx 0.3.4
16:14:05  <V453000> with newwater ofc
16:16:55  <Ammler> V453000: you miss my point
16:17:03  <Ammler> I think, that old ogfx is like that
16:17:04  <V453000> obviously :)
16:17:09  <V453000> I know
16:17:23  <Ammler> you know, then tell pm :-P
16:17:28  <V453000> no
16:17:33  <Ammler> no?
16:17:35  <V453000> I mean I get what you think but I do not think it is
16:17:41  <Ammler> ah ok
16:17:57  <Ammler> then use a pre pm-water-shores ogfx and check
16:18:14  <V453000> I myself used to think that but that was probably just because I somehow thought that newwater is a piece of opengfx, which it probably never was
16:18:46  <V453000> there are 2 ogfx shores,the current ones and the bigger ones, arent there?
16:19:02  <Ammler> hmm
16:19:19  <planetmaker> the old, large ones, and the newer, smaller, more curvy ones
16:19:19  <Ammler> arctic had those big shores too
16:19:24  <planetmaker> told you
16:19:26  <V453000> yes
16:19:51  <Ammler> so either zeph or foobar screw up there :-)
16:20:45  <Ammler> maybe it was easier to use the temperate thosres in arctic too, instead using newwater shores
16:23:10  <planetmaker> Ammler: it rather requires to adjust the ground tiles. They use a different texture
16:23:59  <planetmaker> hm, they also do in temperate
16:24:49  <planetmaker> hm, tropical beaches with NewWater also have a differently coloured sand
16:25:53  <planetmaker> and totally different ground colour actually
16:26:35  <planetmaker> I wonder whether the corresponding ground tiles still exist..
16:28:53  <planetmaker> I don'T like the arctic shores being that straight as with a ruler
16:28:59  <planetmaker> looks... like a step back
16:29:23  <planetmaker> that changed it might make for an interesting addition
16:31:06  <andythenorth> bbl
16:31:08  <andythenorth> food
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16:39:33  <FooBar> what did I screw up?
16:40:51  <planetmaker> once upon a time the shores in arctic in NewWater
16:41:17  <planetmaker> I'm sure they never were made for OpenGFX as they have different ground texture
16:41:41  <planetmaker> same actually for the shores in tropical which have different sand (and ground texture)
16:41:52  <planetmaker> it's a NewGRF from the pre-OpenGFX era
16:42:36  <Ammler> I guess, newwater was just used for temperate and then ported to arctic and tropic
16:43:16  <planetmaker> made to match TTD
16:44:09  <Ammler> FooBar: it was Zeph according to the credits
16:44:15  <FooBar> ah, good
16:44:17  <FooBar> :)
16:44:18  <Ammler> :-P
16:47:30  <FooBar> hmmm... where can I change my email address for the openttd unified login?
16:51:06  <FooBar> it's probably on the page that will be "finished in the very near feature"
16:51:18  <FooBar> whatever that may mean (yes, it says feature, not future :P)
16:55:04  <Ammler> tell it at #openttd and include a highlight to Truebrain and Rubidium
16:56:05  <planetmaker> FooBar: it's exactly on that page
16:56:41  <FooBar> ah, so it doesn't exist :)
16:56:50  <Ammler> :-)
16:57:09  <planetmaker> ping me a bit later today, if you like. gotta go shopping and eat something, might look after that
16:57:41  <Ammler> oh, can you do such things too now?
16:57:42  <FooBar> well, I'm not in a hurry to change my e-mail address at the moment, so no need to hurry for your either
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16:58:11  <FooBar> so it's fine with me if you do the eating and shopping later :P
16:58:20  <FooBar> just kidding ;)
16:59:13  <Ammler> you can have a, if you like...
17:00:05  <planetmaker> Ammler: I can change e-mail or reset passwords...
17:00:15  <FooBar> not needed, I have my own domain
17:00:22  <planetmaker> "things like that" is probably broader than I dare to touch
17:00:43  <FooBar> I just came up with the idea to have a different email address for every website I use
17:00:50  <planetmaker> he
17:00:54  <Ammler> FooBar: well, if you might want to hide it :-)
17:00:59  <planetmaker> any gain in that, FooBar?
17:01:19  <Ammler> FooBar: I do that too
17:01:36  <Ammler> <website>
17:01:39  <FooBar> well, that way I can make my email public in some websites. Once I get too much spam on that email, I just delete it and make a new one
17:01:46  <FooBar> without having to change it for all websites
17:02:23  <Ammler> and you know, who to blame for the spam
17:02:39  <Ammler> but you do not get any spam with our server
17:02:50  <Ammler> so it wouldn't help :-)
17:03:04  <FooBar> No, I don't worry about spam from either openttdcoop or openttd.
17:03:20  <planetmaker> hotmail thinks we send spam ;-)
17:03:28  <FooBar> yes, I've seen the topic
17:03:30  <FooBar> silly hotmail
17:04:00  <FooBar> it surprises me a bit that it completely denies to accept the mail
17:04:07  <planetmaker> Quite so
17:04:18  <FooBar> normally you would expect that it would put it in the spam bin or so
17:04:31  <planetmaker> That's what I'd expect, too.
17:04:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: who is we?
17:04:39  <planetmaker>
17:04:46  <planetmaker> in this case
17:04:53  <FooBar> so you can look there if you missed something; now you don't get the mail at all
17:05:10  <planetmaker> yup. that's a worrying behaviour imho.
17:05:39  <planetmaker> luckily in Germany that's not allowed really.
17:05:44  <Ammler> and why does hotmail think so?
17:05:59  <Ammler> broken relay?
17:09:47  <planetmaker> spam block list
17:10:12  <Ammler> yes, but there is a reason you get on such a list
17:11:27  <Brot6> nml: update from r1638 to r1639 done -
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17:15:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: if we knew why... that'd be helpful. Probably some other server within ovh within the IP range openttd is located was used as spam machine... Dunno
17:16:36  <Ammler> well, it is basically not your concern...
17:16:58  <Ammler> if someone uses hotmail, he hast lost anyway
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17:19:11  <planetmaker> lots of people do, though
17:19:29  <planetmaker> and it is our concern if our IP is on spam black lists
17:19:45  <planetmaker> for the false reasons
17:20:00  <Ammler> no
17:20:12  <Ammler> those obviously use a wrong list
17:21:13  <Ammler> so if they can't explain, why you are on that list, the list is worst
17:21:39  <Ammler> and they should also just remove you
17:22:27  <Brot6> firs: update from r2508 to r2532 done -
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17:24:18  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r251), narvs (r52), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r123), opengfx (r727), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r639), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1639), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7),
17:24:18  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r109), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r80), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143),
17:24:20  <Brot6> belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r132), comic-houses (r71)
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17:51:36  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains, narvs (11 warnings), ogfx-industries, foobarstramtracks, cets (436 warnings) (Diffsize: 462), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile, dutchtramset, swisstowns, dutchroadfurniture, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 2), frenchtowns, ogfx-rv, ogfx-landscape (1 warnings), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30),
17:51:36  <Brot6> indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 1), airportsplus (2 warnings)
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18:57:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 728:128c53d2fe25: Doc: Sprites of the waterfeatures (planetmaker) @
19:03:44  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2964) -
19:06:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 729:c41245676528: Codechange: Use no explicit sprite numbers for water features (planetmaker) @
19:08:58  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22846 to r22851 done -
19:10:31  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2966) -
19:12:08  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22851 still failed (#2446) -
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19:48:36  <andythenorth> hmm
19:48:40  <andythenorth> what to code what to code
19:55:59  <andythenorth> maybe I should code 'sleep' :o
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20:00:25  <Ammler> that is already implemented
20:00:43  <Ammler> or do you think, it is buggy?
20:27:25  <Alberth> bleh, language files got renamed :(
20:28:19  <andythenorth> in FIRS?
20:28:25  <Alberth> yep
20:28:32  <andythenorth> :(
20:29:50  <Alberth> so I need to pick up the old filename too after analyzing a diff
20:30:59  <Alberth> I don't think it is of use to do a full change track of each string to its last change in FIRS though, strings have been messed with too much
20:31:22  <andythenorth> I think the view was that translations would have to almost start from scratch
20:31:58  <Alberth> that could be quite valid :)
20:33:22  <Alberth> so my 450 lines of recursive back-tracking to the last change of each string is wasted on current FIRS :p
20:33:46  <andythenorth> :(
20:34:08  <andythenorth> if it's any consolation, we binned nearly 3 years worth of nfo and cpp :)
20:34:51  <Alberth> it got any smaller?
20:35:14  <andythenorth> not sure
20:36:04  <Alberth> in source code lines?
20:37:29  <andythenorth> probably approx same
20:37:35  <andythenorth> nml seems to be 36k loc
20:37:41  <andythenorth> nfo was something like that
20:38:47  <Alberth> so what it gains on high-level description, it gives away again on more verbose wording :)
20:38:58  <andythenorth> considerably more verbose
20:39:11  <andythenorth> loc are misleading though
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20:43:50  <Alberth> good night
20:44:05  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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20:59:50  <FooBar> Object tile_check callback tells me to and-mask extra_callback_info1 variable. Doesn't NML do this by itself and if not, how can I do this myself? (see
20:59:51  <Webster> Title: NML:Objects - GRFSpecs (at
21:01:15  <frosch123> unless there is no specific variable, you likely do it via "extra_callback_info1 & bitmask(0,1,2,3,4)"
21:01:18  <planetmaker> FooBar: and-masking is done the "usual way": variable & 0xFF for example
21:01:28  <planetmaker> or bitmask
21:01:40  <FooBar> hmmm, nasty
21:03:56  <frosch123> oh, supid ttdp is again not able to deal with steep slopes
21:05:38  <frosch123> wtf? the documentation of cb 157 is completely wrong .o
21:05:49  <frosch123> (compared to ottd implementation)
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21:07:20  <frosch123> well, there are like 3 lines at the bottom negating the rest
21:07:24  <frosch123> but they are wrong as well
21:08:59  <planetmaker> hm, FooBar, wrt wiki: <-- you think it hurts to have the pseudo-code also in another colour?
21:09:00  <Webster> Title: RandomAction2 - GRFSpecs (at
21:09:25  <planetmaker> yes, I follow the argument... not sure it's worth the trouble though...
21:09:30  <Yexo> FooBar: for now use extra_callback_info1 & 0x0F, in the future NML will likely provide a variable named "tile_slope" or something like that which is only available in that callback
21:09:45  <planetmaker> frosch123: colour-distinction between pseudo code and real examples when using <pre> blocks?
21:09:53  <frosch123> FooBar: actually use extra_callback_info1 & 0x1f
21:09:56  <frosch123> slopes use 5 bits, not 4
21:10:41  <Yexo> frosch123: for cb 157?
21:10:49  <Yexo> lists bit 0..3 as slope info
21:10:52  <Webster> Title: Callbacks - GRFSpecs (at
21:10:54  <Yexo> and bit 4..7 too, but mirrored
21:10:55  <FooBar> well, I decided to go with extra_callback_info1 & bitmask(0,1,2,3), so I'll have to add ,4 to that
21:10:56  <frosch123> Yexo: in ottd definitely
21:11:01  <frosch123> currently checking ttdp
21:11:08  <FooBar> I think the bitmask function makes more sense to unknowing users
21:11:11  <frosch123> Yexo: the description the wiki to total crap
21:11:15  <frosch123> only read the last paragraph
21:11:17  <frosch123> for objects
21:11:51  <FooBar> planetmaker: I'd rather have pseudocode in a different colour than example code. What those colours actually are I don't really care
21:12:00  <frosch123> Yexo: stations have no steep slopes, so that is fine
21:12:05  <frosch123> though not future-proof
21:12:49  <planetmaker> hm... is there an example for pre-wrap in use, FooBar?
21:12:53  <frosch123> planetmaker: i could understand if <blabla> would have different colour than 00 11 etc.
21:13:11  <frosch123> but different colour in examples and pseudo code is likely something i would not even notice :p
21:13:18  <planetmaker> :-)
21:13:23  <planetmaker> would you mind?
21:13:37  <frosch123> as long as it is readable :)
21:13:38  <planetmaker> black vs. dark blue?
21:13:47  <frosch123> the current blue is fine
21:13:56  <planetmaker> maybe light green on light red? ;-)
21:14:07  <frosch123> i saw some green which felt weird
21:14:26  <FooBar> planetmaker: language files in nml examples, e.g.: bottom of page
21:14:26  <planetmaker> for <code>, yes
21:14:27  <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial/Train four part refit - TTWiki (at
21:14:35  <frosch123> red text is only for stuff which shall not be read :p
21:15:36  <planetmaker> :-)
21:15:49  <planetmaker> ok, I'll implement your suggestion, frosch123
21:15:53  <planetmaker> err... FooBar
21:16:00  <FooBar> depends a bit on your screen size if you can see the wrapping in effect
21:16:11  <planetmaker> 13" laptop. Yes, I do ;-)
21:16:40  <FooBar> On very small screens wrapping probably doesn't work out too well though
21:17:20  <FooBar> but try without the wrapping (edit and preview) and you'll see that that is even worse
21:17:41  <FooBar> makes the page three lightyears wide
21:18:21  <FooBar> If you don't like the wrapping, then all pre things must get an overflow:scroll style property
21:18:38  <Yexo> FooBar: "Without a railtypetable block you can still use the labels RAIL, MONO and MLEV, but there will be no guarantee that this works properly on OpenTTD with different custom railtype NewGRFs loaded." <- actually that should always work fine
21:19:09  <Yexo> and if it doesn't you can't fix it by creating a railtype translation table
21:19:09  <FooBar> can't a railtype grf redefine all default railtypes to something else?
21:19:22  <Yexo> it can change the graphics, yes
21:19:33  <FooBar> but not actually remove RAIL, MONO, MLEV?
21:19:39  <planetmaker> frosch123: in the nml section the <code> template is used for keywords and alike - which shows in green
21:19:42  <FooBar> in that case, yes it should work
21:19:51  <Yexo> even if it could, you wouldn't be helped by having a railtype translation table
21:20:06  <frosch123> Yexo: ttdp returns a 5 bit slope as well
21:20:38  <FooBar> hmmm, makes sense. Translate to <undefined> probably doesn't work very well.
21:20:44  <FooBar> I'll fix it
21:21:49  <Yexo> basically as long as you don't have a railtype translation table you'll have a default table with the values "RAIL", "MONO", "MGLV" (not MLEV!)
21:22:04  <Yexo> and NML defines ELRL as alternative to MONO (both have index 1)
21:22:49  <Yexo> If you've written the label in the table without quotes, don't use quotes here either. <- that doesn't matter, you can use quotes for the function
21:22:57  <Yexo> and if you want you can leave the function out and it'll still work
21:23:33  <Yexo> the function is only necessary for railtypes that start with a number, since 3RDR is invalid in NML because it starts with a number. "3RDR" is valid but is a string so can't be automatically mapped to a number, hence the function
21:23:50  <Yexo> advocating the use of railtype() is a good idea, but not strictly necessary
21:24:09  <FooBar> yes, I just saw about the MLEV :P In some places it' correct, in others it isn't :S
21:24:41  <planetmaker> FooBar: that'd be a search for bot replacement ;-)
21:25:03  <FooBar> no, I only used it on that page
21:28:34  <Yexo> page 3 got me reading about cb 1D. Why is the engine the related type and not the wagon? After all the cb is called on the engine
21:30:33  <FooBar> don't know. It's what the example form the NML source did and I gave it no further thought
21:31:01  <Yexo> sorry, that was not directed at you. Just randomly wondering about inconsistencies in the nfo spec
21:31:59  <FooBar> ok
21:33:11  <FooBar> anyways, if you see errors in the tutorial, feel free to fix them. If they are in the example code, they most likely need fixing in multiple places: once more at the code summary at the bottom of the page and then in the code summaries on all next pages :P
21:36:51  <planetmaker> btw... how useful would a NFO navbar be (similar to the NML one)?
21:36:52  <Webster> Title: Template:NFONavMain - GRFSpecs (at
21:37:46  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you should hide tt-wiki from webster web thing
21:38:36  <Yexo> planetmaker: whenever I need to switch it's most of the time between Action0Feature and VarAction2Feature
21:38:36  <FooBar> planetmaker: for people who still use NFO it would be very useful I think. I've been thinking of that myself as well, including a thought to make the colours green :P
21:38:42  <Yexo> which are specific links that navbar doesn't provide
21:38:51  <planetmaker> Ammler: I've not much idea about webster...
21:39:19  <FooBar> maybe a "see also" navbar with selected links then
21:39:26  <planetmaker> Yexo: true. They could be added there or made feature-specific
21:39:43  <planetmaker> similar to how foobar did with NML
21:39:53  <Yexo> would be nice :)
21:40:07  <Ammler> @config supybot.plugins.Web.nonSnarfingRegexp
21:40:07  <Webster> Ammler: Global: m/openttdcoop|mybrute|pastebin|openttd|codecubes||" target="_blank">||" target="_blank">\/show/; #openttdcoop.devzone: m/openttdcoop|mybrute|pastebin|openttd|codecubes||" target="_blank">||" target="_blank">\/show/
21:40:09  <Yexo> and yes, a general navbar is useful, also for nfo
21:41:45  <frosch123> depends what you put in it :p
21:42:06  <frosch123> there are actions you never use, and hidden subpages you need all the time :p
21:42:37  <planetmaker> quite so. Suggestions for the main NavBar are very welcome of what should go there
21:43:52  <frosch123> well, it looks nice, but i am not sure about the usability
21:44:17  <frosch123> stuff i use most are the varact2 pages and the callbacks page
21:44:27  <planetmaker> yes, same here
21:44:27  <frosch123> but listing all varact2 pages is way too much
21:44:33  <planetmaker> is it?
21:44:42  <planetmaker> maybe just varact2
21:45:02  <frosch123> anyway, i was wondering about something else
21:45:02  <Yexo> StringCodes is a useful page in conjunction with Action4
21:45:28  <frosch123> moving the current main page into the grfspecs namespace and putting a portal page on the frontpage
21:45:52  <frosch123> which would link to nfospecs, nml, common stuff (like cargolabels) and tools
21:46:40  <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe stuff belonging to the same feature should be linked
21:46:51  <planetmaker> yes, we agreed to that namespace change
21:46:57  <planetmaker> and yes, possibly should
21:47:10  <frosch123> i.e. when you are action 0 industries, you get links to varact2 industries, random bits industries, and industrytile stuff
21:47:11  <planetmaker> maybe via context-navbar :-)
21:47:18  <Yexo> FooBar: on
21:47:19  <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial/Parameters - TTWiki (at
21:47:24  <frosch123> as well as linking to the related object or so
21:47:27  <Yexo> the <num> part for parameters is optional
21:47:39  <planetmaker> I wrote that, Yexo :-)
21:47:42  <FooBar> :)
21:47:44  <Ammler>
21:47:47  <Ammler> oki
21:47:51  <planetmaker> :-)
21:47:58  <Yexo> if you don't provide it nml will just number all parameters consequentially
21:48:02  <frosch123> otoh, action 5 - c, e - 14 might be hidden completely
21:48:06  <Yexo> ok, so planetmaker ^^
21:48:23  <Yexo> as long as you don't reorder or remove any parameters you don't need to worry about <num> at all
21:50:24  <Yexo> I really like the Colour mapping callback example
21:50:41  <Yexo> now that would be a good comparison between nml and nfo code :p
21:51:14  <planetmaker> well, go for it :-)
21:55:54  <Yexo> meh, the generated nfo code is really ugly and can be done better
21:56:10  <Yexo> so maybe later
21:59:24  <frosch123> does nml have no special value for the "00 C0" result?
22:00:18  <FooBar> the colour map example might be nice as comparison on the main page of the tutorial. I think the current comparison is not 'threatening' enough :P
22:00:44  <Yexo> yes, but before doing that I want to write some "readable" nfo
22:00:59  <frosch123> ah, so you can drop the "base_sprte_2cc + "
22:01:00  <Yexo> output from nmlc is hardly fair, as in this case the output is suboptimal
22:01:42  <FooBar> yes, I thought so about "base_sprte_2cc + ", but left it in as an example how to do it differently.
22:01:46  <Yexo> frosch123: but that makes the nfo code so much smaller while in nml code it's still readable :P
22:02:16  <Ammler> planetmaker: escape sequences are mandatory according to frosch, so you can't remove those from comparison :-P
22:02:38  <FooBar> was thinking palette_2cc(company_colour1, company_colour2) myself really
22:02:55  <Yexo> that results in really inefficient code
22:03:04  <FooBar> or CB_FAILED alternatively, as that should do the trick as well
22:03:41  <FooBar> 2cc colouring was already enabled in the properties, so I think that should work
22:03:48  <Yexo> I'd rather see another constant named CB_RESULT_COLOUR_MAPPING_DEFAULT_2CC or so
22:04:09  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
22:04:29  <frosch123> Ammler: only those which you use
22:05:49  <Ammler> frosch123: which is just stupid
22:05:55  <Ammler> (anyway)
22:06:13  <Yexo> mandatory for what?
22:06:14  <Ammler> who would define his own escape
22:06:21  <frosch123> well, everything is stupid what you do not understand
22:06:32  <Yexo> oh, in the nfo header?
22:06:38  <Ammler> that is not true, but much, indeed :-)
22:06:49  <frosch123> Ammler: ever heard of self-describing syntax?
22:07:05  <frosch123> ever noticed why action 0 sucks for every tool, while varact2 is simple?
22:07:48  <frosch123> ever wondered why every higher language uses header files writtin in its own syntax, instead of everything being built in?
22:07:53  <Ammler> frosch123: well, we can't blame you, you just extended existing code...
22:08:07  <frosch123> maybe you should read about language architecture?
22:08:09  <Ammler> would you seriously have done it that way?
22:08:36  <Yexo> Ammler: what is so wrong with it?
22:08:42  <Ammler> Yexo: useless?
22:08:44  <frosch123> Ammler: what annoys me is that you reasoning is wrong
22:09:02  <Ammler> everybody is using the default
22:09:25  <frosch123> Ammler: you assume everyone uses an uptodate grfcodec
22:09:32  <Ammler> frosch123: for the right reasoning you would need to understand it
22:09:38  <frosch123> so you fail to understand the concept of releases
22:09:53  <frosch123> you assume everythnig is always built-in
22:10:02  <frosch123> which is the stupidest thing to do for anything
22:10:29  <Ammler> frosch123: but the nfo sources don't have the escape in
22:10:54  <Ammler> so your reasoing is wrong too :-)
22:11:07  <frosch123> [00:04] <frosch123> Ammler: only those which you use
22:11:39  <frosch123> you only have to define what you use
22:12:42  <Ammler> so all the devzone projects don't use any escapes?
22:13:15  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
22:14:29  <frosch123> shall we break them?
22:15:44  <Ammler> hehe, you said, it is mandatory :-P
22:15:58  <frosch123> just because something still works, does not mean it is correct
22:16:11  <frosch123> it's the different between good code and a hack
22:16:53  <frosch123> if you consider something done as soon as it works, i am sorry for you
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22:17:30  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3013 (New): Early steam engines (oberhuemer) @
22:21:19  <FooBar> I'm off, bye
22:21:24  <Ammler> well, as nobody is using it and you do not ask people to use it, you will never be able to make use of it, so you never will be able to change an escaple
22:21:53  <Ammler> that is why useless
22:22:17  <frosch123> yup, prototypes are useless in c as well
22:22:26  <frosch123> the code compiles quite well without
22:22:56  *** FooBar has quit IRC
22:23:27  <frosch123> and if you think it is about changing the meaning of escapes, then you still did not understand it
22:23:48  <frosch123> including an headerfile is not about changing the meaning of a function
22:24:48  <Yexo> Ammler: openttd r20332 added a new varaction2 operator. The escape for that is >>, by defining that escape in the header you can compile a nfo file that uses that new escape even with older nforenum / grfcodec versions
22:25:11  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3013: Early steam engines (Eddi) @
22:30:57  <Yexo> planetmaker: by using sprite: spriteset_fingerpost_3(3); (page Object_graphics) aren't you using the advanced sprite layouts already?
22:31:23  <planetmaker> I'd assume so, yes?
22:31:38  <Yexo> because two pages later you warn that the rest of that page only works with a certain version of openttd
22:31:55  <Yexo> perhaps you should move that warning forward or adjust the earlier example not to use the advanced sprite layouts
22:32:00  <planetmaker> which will be pointless as OpenTTD won't load the NewGRF then
22:32:09  <planetmaker> nor show the error message actually
22:32:33  <planetmaker> But it sounds like text I haven't written ;-)
22:32:58  <Yexo> sorry, you're right
22:33:03  <Yexo> it is by FooBar
22:33:20  <planetmaker> the parameter page is about the only tutorial page I wrote ;-)
22:33:37  <Yexo> after that mistake I kindof assumed you wrote the rest without checking
22:34:01  <planetmaker> FooBar is quick :-)
22:34:43  <planetmaker> the object tutorial must be from today
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22:46:00  <planetmaker> I added a version of a NavBar for NFO for vehicles. I guess similar would work for other features, too
22:46:17  <planetmaker> Interesting will be what to do with the pages of general interest like StringCodes etc
22:47:04  <frosch123> we need to extent the introductions on the pages :p
22:47:26  <frosch123> if the navigation reaches to the tables, they get too small
22:48:24  <planetmaker> hm
22:49:16  <planetmaker> I see what you mean
22:49:48  <planetmaker> though it's ok when I use my screen's width
22:51:19  <planetmaker> RV and ships could possibly profit from wider tables
22:51:45  <frosch123> for rv the table of contents is long enough for me
22:52:07  <frosch123> (unless it is hidden)
22:55:58  <planetmaker> hm... and I all started this as I wanted to fix OpenGFX river mouths...
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