Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 3rd September 2011:
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00:26:39  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 182:27affba92806: - Reserve money for building another wagon (krinn) @
00:26:39  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 183:aa2df5d72e5c: - Change AIBridge.IsBridgeTile to cBridge.IsBridgeTile to... (krinn) @
00:26:39  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 184:4ba51b86a360: - Remove the buggy test to see if we have money to buy a ... (krinn) @
00:26:41  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 185:3de21a9b7329: - Remove blacklisted tiles when creating a train station (krinn) @
02:53:58  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Bug #3024 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (oberhuemer) @
02:54:50  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
02:58:58  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
03:00:40  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
03:03:25  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
05:51:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 252:a3dbcef2be1d: Add: Preliminary support for FIRS sugar cane and sug... (planetmaker) @
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08:03:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 84:275c45008c8d: Add: Russian translation (akasoft) (planetmaker) @
08:32:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 85:2207df50c8cf: Add: German translation (planetmaker) @
08:46:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: you should add the check_language from firs ;-)
08:46:48  <Ammler> it should work on every nml project
08:46:50  <planetmaker> indeed
08:47:22  <Ammler> at least, we would know it then
08:48:34  <planetmaker> hm... maybe it should become part of the newgrf framework
08:48:53  <Ammler> I hope so :-9
08:49:22  <Terkhen> I meant that script just as a hacky placeholder until something better comes :P
08:49:38  <planetmaker> you know how long provisional things continue to exist?
08:49:44  <planetmaker> :-D
08:49:46  <Ammler> didn't alberth mention a python improvement?
08:50:21  <andythenorth> do I configure fences?
08:50:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth: look at one of the industries which have, e.g. lime kiln
08:51:02  <Ammler> planetmaker: as first you should add it to another nml project with languages so we see it works cross project...
08:51:03  <Terkhen> once they are "official", they continue forever :)
08:51:28  <planetmaker> the general fence things are hooked directly from the call of the graphics, before any other decision
08:51:37  <planetmaker> (additionally to using the fence layouts)
08:51:58  <planetmaker> just look at one of the commits where I added it to an industry... should be self-explaining then
08:52:10  <planetmaker> hg export xyz
08:52:14  <planetmaker> with xyz the revision
08:52:49  <planetmaker> like hg export 2547
08:52:58  <planetmaker> which adds them to dairy
08:53:23  <planetmaker>
08:54:00  <planetmaker> <-- better
08:54:35  <planetmaker> important are the lines 83...86 and 104
08:54:47  <planetmaker> which you probably missed yesterday
08:55:23  <planetmaker> the uppermost fence macro then links to the next sprite layout decision switch
08:55:37  <planetmaker> which was previously linked directy by the graphics
08:57:47  <planetmaker> also read that commit bottom up
08:57:54  <planetmaker> then the links will become clear(er)
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09:20:15  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so I'm trying to add fences to metal foundry
09:20:28  <andythenorth> but it misses spritelayout in the format of the lime kiln diff
09:20:59  <planetmaker> look at the bauxite mine's one
09:21:04  <planetmaker> It has "normal" spritelayouts
09:21:20  <planetmaker> make sure the northern fence macros are added before building sprites, the southern ones after
09:21:23  <planetmaker> (below)
09:29:34  <andythenorth> maybe I should stick to drawing things :P
09:30:39  <planetmaker> uhm... :-)
09:31:11  <planetmaker> dunno, what's difficult about fences? I really don't know how to explain really more than those revisions I committed
09:31:23  <planetmaker> you'll have to explain what is not understandable to you
09:37:27  <andythenorth> I just lack patience
09:37:48  <andythenorth> nml looks to me like nfo must look to other people
09:37:49  <andythenorth> magical
09:38:34  <planetmaker> the issue you mostly face is: you're faced with gcc templates and NML at the same time
09:39:08  <planetmaker> and the current templates used are working differently than the one used with nfo. And are sometimes even more powerful
09:39:43  <planetmaker> the whole thing related to fences is 98% gcc templating and only 2% nml
09:39:54  <andythenorth> the issue I face is I'm lazy :P
09:46:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm going to try adding basements / ground tile detail
09:46:27  <andythenorth> fences defeat me
09:46:41  <planetmaker> he...
09:46:51  <planetmaker> really, what don't you understand?
09:46:56  <planetmaker> It's just adding a few lines...
09:47:10  <planetmaker> and changing the graphics templates...
09:58:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2572:ac0e7a155983: Change: prepare Grain Mill for additi... (andythenorth) @
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10:46:50  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2573:563120cbfc7e: Change: further prep Grain Mill to us... (andythenorth) @
10:47:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^ do you have time to help make use of that?
10:47:44  <andythenorth> it may or may not be self explanatory
10:53:30  <andythenorth> I like these black foundations
10:53:37  <andythenorth> it may require a lot of reslicing though :P
10:53:40  <andythenorth> nvm
10:55:36  <planetmaker> sorry, I slowed down my machine to a crawl...
11:07:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2574:7194f5acc532: Change: prepare Glass Works for groun... (andythenorth) @
11:09:13  <andythenorth> Terkhen: for vehicle names I use mountains / rivers / glaciers / places where they were built /  shipping forecast areas
11:10:55  <Terkhen> hmm... are the default trucks based on any real models?
11:13:06  <andythenorth> not really
11:13:22  <andythenorth>
11:13:23  <Webster> Title: List of mountains of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
11:16:33  <Terkhen> I think that I'm just going to mix your suggestion and FooBar's :P
11:21:14  <Hirundo> Would "recolour_mode: RECOLOUR_DEFAULT;"  be useful as an alias of "recolour_mode: RECOLOUR_REMAP; palette: PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT;" ?
11:26:06  <planetmaker> might be
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11:31:55  <frosch123> Terkhen: at least the default trains are
11:32:11  <frosch123> afaik they even had the original names in tto
11:33:53  <Terkhen> hmm... according to the original vehicle names GRF, they have real vehicle names
11:34:14  <Terkhen> but then a ford is identical to a volvo truck :P
11:34:19  <Terkhen> makes little sense
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12:39:22  <planetmaker> "lang/english.lng", line 8: String code 'PARAM' has been deprecated and will be removed soon <--- what is the proper way to use that now, Yexo, Hirundo?
12:40:21  <Hirundo> COMMA
12:40:38  <planetmaker> <-- so that should be updated, right?
12:41:09  <planetmaker> (the custom error message)
12:41:27  <planetmaker> but also the invalid parameter
12:42:16  <planetmaker> and I guess they can't be strings, too, can't they?
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12:43:05  <Hirundo> the PARAM should be replaced by COMMA there indeed
12:43:23  <Hirundo> about the STRINGs i'm not sure, there's some built-in magic in there *checks*
12:54:33  <Hirundo> The parametern parameters must be (non-constant) numbers
12:58:35  <planetmaker> ok, so I can (unfortunately) only give a parameter number.
12:58:43  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
12:59:20  <Hirundo> You can provide any expression, NML will convert it into a parameter if needed
12:59:42  <planetmaker> yes. But I need a translatable string :-)
13:00:20  <Hirundo> You can provide 1 (and only 1) translatable string via extra_text
13:01:15  <Hirundo> Complaints about limitations of this format may be delivered to #tycoon :)
13:02:13  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
13:04:39  <planetmaker> parameter _number_ unfortunately doesn't make much sense anymore... - that's why :-)
13:05:50  <Hirundo> Documentation on that page needs some fixing, don't have time for that right now though
13:07:05  <andythenorth> drop ttdp support :P
13:07:06  <andythenorth> it's time
13:07:21  <andythenorth> maintaining compatibility with a dead platform :P
13:10:21  <frosch123> isn't that already the case?
13:12:55  <planetmaker> quite. It becomes increasingly painful to maintain TTDP compatibility. And all the nice new stuff is unsupported anyway
13:13:17  <planetmaker> and NML won't give you TTDP support if you use a bit of magic in sprite layouts
13:13:39  <andythenorth> declare intention now - as it's de-facto true
13:13:52  <planetmaker> what use would that be?
13:13:54  <andythenorth> then declare next nfo version non-ttdp compatible
13:14:06  <planetmaker> declaring it will only result in flames
13:14:07  <andythenorth> then start refactoring things that are annoying / limiting
13:14:16  <planetmaker> Just doing it has the same result without the bad karma attached
13:14:27  <andythenorth> or the bad karma of not telling people :P
13:14:44  <planetmaker> No, it's just that no-one implemented the specs in ttpd ;-)
13:18:03  <andythenorth> declare it but don't tell anyone else :P
13:19:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: just look at the NewGRF wiki
13:19:51  <planetmaker> And it becomes very obvious that it has long been done ;-)
13:20:52  <planetmaker> two features not in ttdp. many variables
13:21:45  <planetmaker> and only very few things there which are in ttdp only so far and make sense to implement in ottd.
13:21:50  <planetmaker> in the way described
13:37:00  <Terkhen> no need to declare intention IMO
13:37:18  <Terkhen> it will happen slowly enough
13:37:38  <Terkhen> if anyone is interested on supporting TTDP, he will implement new NewGRF features
13:37:42  <Terkhen> as happened for NewObjects
13:38:01  <Terkhen> otherwise... we don't really need to take a stance besides "making OpenTTD better"
13:38:10  <Terkhen> not our problem :)
13:41:17  <planetmaker> exactly. And we shouldn't even make it partially ours by stating any such intention
13:42:02  <planetmaker> even things like ecs starts to drop ttdp support
13:42:04  <andythenorth> mm
13:42:12  <andythenorth> but you are currently out of spec :P
13:42:21  <andythenorth> as ttdp is considered to be the spec
13:42:23  <planetmaker> out of spec?
13:42:33  <planetmaker> no. The spec is the wiki.
13:42:34  <andythenorth> MB has declared that ttdp is the spec for newgrf
13:42:42  <planetmaker> who cares?
13:42:44  <andythenorth> or do I misremember unfairly?
13:43:50  <andythenorth> nvm
13:44:35  <planetmaker> those who implement a feature first provide the reference implementation
13:45:05  <Terkhen> and after that others are free to implement that feature, ignore it or declare that they will never implement it
13:45:27  <Terkhen> as happens with OpenTTD and some stuff on the specs
13:45:38  <planetmaker> yup
14:10:40  <planetmaker> I'm puzzled... my check for the newgrf parameters of swedishrails doesn't work for me: <-- line 89ff checks for swedishrails parameter 'fences'
14:11:11  <planetmaker> it should show a warning, if the value is >4:
14:11:55  <planetmaker> but somehow that doesn't seem to work....
14:12:30  <planetmaker> interestingly the check for the canset parameter works
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14:17:18  <frosch123> wrong grfid? :p
14:19:58  <frosch123> ottd will only show one message
14:22:00  <planetmaker> no, the grfID is correct. I tested things independently
14:22:34  <planetmaker> it must be like wrong parameter number... but I don't know what might be the right one...
14:22:45  <planetmaker> Not 2. Not 3... other numbers don't make sense
14:38:54  <frosch123> you mean nml hides which parameters swedish rails realy uses?
14:40:07  <planetmaker> it should not... I explicitly defined in SER's source to assigne fences to param 2... (0-based)
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16:14:41  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 137:3d842cefd9dc: add ET85 and ET65 to core, add prussian G... (Eddi) @
16:26:05  <andythenorth> planetmaker: fancy helping with those improved ground tiles for grain mill?
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17:20:48  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r251 to r252 done -
17:22:53  <Brot6> firs: update from r2569 to r2574 done -
17:26:00  <Brot6> cets: update from r135 to r137 done (475 warnings) -
17:27:10  <Brot6> heqs: update from r639 to r640 done -
17:29:32  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r82 to r85 done (1 warnings) -
17:30:01  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: narvs (r52), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r123), opengfx (r732), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1661), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17),
17:30:01  <Brot6> ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r110), fish (r684), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r206), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r49), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r135),
17:30:03  <Brot6> comic-houses (r71)
18:59:31  <andythenorth> fewer commits this weekend :P
19:04:01  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22883 still failed (#2964) -
19:09:26  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22870 to r22883 done -
19:10:59  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22883 still failed (#2966) -
19:12:41  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22883 still failed (#2446) -
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19:47:59  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3028 (Confirmed): Clay Pit has wrong palette (andythenorth) @
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21:28:59  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 186:b8293db2cb9c: - Upgrade town bridge is now optional (krinn) @
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