Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 13th September 2011:
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00:28:28  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3045: Wagons - sprites (oberhuemer) @
01:14:08  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 18:5799db292895: Dropped livery cargo, using cargo capacity callba... (EyeMWing) @
01:22:46  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 19:983c2645871e: Locked min_compatible_version to the repository r... (EyeMWing) @
01:22:47  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 20:93de7b2250e7: Missed a file for the livery refit conversion. (EyeMWing) @
01:38:42  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3071 (New): Forum thread(s?) (oberhuemer) @
01:40:51  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3072 (New): Goals for 0.1.0 (oberhuemer) @
04:40:21  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3045: Wagons - sprites (Elukka) @
05:37:46  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 21:f445f8c9754e: Colorado Railcar DMUs and passenger trailers are in. (EyeMWing) @
05:37:46  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 22:2658571467cd: Colorado Railcar DMUs and passenger trailers are ... (EyeMWing) @
05:40:25  <Brot6> Revived US Trainset - Revision 23:e94edc7269dc: F7's were slightly underweight - by a factor of 10. (EyeMWing) @
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08:39:04  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 124:7134dcbcfb90: Feature #1880: Oil Seeds sprite support (bulk... (Terkhen) @
08:41:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #1880: Graphical support for new cargos (Terkhen) @
09:05:21  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Code Review #3063 (Closed): check height of gantry signs with bridges and ... (foobar) @
09:05:21  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #2688: Random recolouring (Terkhen) @
09:16:21  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #3052: Capacities for some cargos in the flatbed truck (Terkhen) @
09:16:25  <Terkhen> planetmaker^ does that look good?
09:21:22  <Terkhen> I also need to know who did each cargo sprite in ogfx-trains before I release :P
09:26:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 125:dd31f489c274: Feature #3052: Cargo takes more time to age i... (Terkhen) @
09:26:17  <Terkhen> meh, I used a wrong number
09:27:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #2991 (Closed): Use cargo_age_period with refrigerated trucks (Terkhen) @
09:36:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 126:f87ecd5bdaa7: Feature #1879: Names for truck models. (DXTR) (Terkhen) @
09:37:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #1879 (Closed): Missing names for many truck models. (Terkhen) @
09:38:06  <V453000> there is a colour picking imate for ttd-win palette from Purno ... I have my own for ttd-DOS ... should I place it there?
09:38:20  <V453000> there (in the documents in devzone help center)
12:09:58  <Ammler> V453000: you have access?
12:10:22  <V453000> there is a (+)new document
12:10:38  <V453000> if that actually works..
12:10:45  <Ammler> you should add it to the existing palette overview
12:11:19  <V453000> there<
12:11:20  <V453000> ?
12:14:48  <planetmaker> Ammler, the palette document(s) should IMHO only be palettes - not colour tables
12:14:58  <planetmaker> and the colour picker... that's for both IMHO in the newgrf wiki
12:15:17  <V453000> ok :)
12:15:24  <planetmaker> <-- or what do you call that?
12:17:31  <V453000> well these images are rather large
12:17:43  <V453000> it is nice to have a colour picking image 16x16
12:19:04  <V453000> just like
12:19:25  <planetmaker> well, then add it :-)
12:19:59  <planetmaker> I prefer the large ones - or rather I use directly the palette which gimp shows me in a separate window - I don't need a picker
12:20:14  <Ammler> sorry for confusion :-P
12:20:24  <planetmaker> (if you use gimp - you know about the palette window, do you?)
12:23:22  <V453000> I use photoshop but there are swatches too ... but sometimes it is good to have it just to compare colours with the magic wand (no clue how gimp calls it - selection of the same colour)
12:23:46  <V453000> so rather a "bunch of usable colours" instead of "colour picker" really :)
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12:24:14  <V453000> And I copy (at least parts) of it all over the images for quicker picking
12:24:39  <V453000> dunno, I found it usefull ... so should I put it straight here?
12:25:30  <planetmaker> three swiss switched witches watch three swiss swatch watches... ;-)
12:25:59  <planetmaker> add it to the same document where the other picker is
12:26:14  <planetmaker> not every picker needs its own document
12:28:58  <V453000> oh, true :))
12:29:41  <V453000> ok added :)
12:29:47  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - ttdDOS.png (V453000) @
12:29:52  <FooBar> hmm, maybe I can share my photoshop swatches there as well
12:30:36  <V453000> another useful thing :)
12:31:25  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- do you think that they are correct?
12:34:12  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - (foobar) @
12:36:34  <FooBar> I removed the palette comparison image as there is an updated version of that on the newgrf spec wiki
12:37:28  <planetmaker> for certain definitions of 'correct', certainly, Terkhen :-)
12:37:35  <planetmaker> what capacities would you then suggest for trains?
12:37:42  <planetmaker> 20% more?
12:42:52  <planetmaker> is what trains currently use...
12:43:38  <planetmaker> so probably their capacity could go down to like 12 .. 18 units or so
12:43:43  <planetmaker> and vehicles maybe to 10
12:45:28  <V453000> 12 .. 18 per wagon?
12:49:07  <V453000> Ammler: for you :P
12:57:18  <planetmaker> per wagon
13:08:28  <Terkhen> sorry, I had to go :)
13:09:01  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I set them to something even smaller than goods and then increased them 1 by 1 instead of 2 by 2 like other cargos
13:09:28  <Terkhen> since wagons don't increase capacity... I would set it to something like 2/3 of goods capacity
13:09:34  <Terkhen> even less for vehicles
13:10:43  <V453000> wow 12-18 is really low :)
13:12:24  <V453000> I think even UKRS2 has more, and there the values reduced a lot :)
13:12:39  <planetmaker> Terkhen, well, default capacity (i.e. for goods) is 30 units
13:12:52  <planetmaker> thus 15 is already half the default capacity
13:13:00  <Terkhen> hmm
13:13:11  <planetmaker> the wagons don't really have generations, except rail / mono / maglev
13:13:21  <Terkhen> maybe 16 for SP and 14 for vehicles
13:13:38  <planetmaker> well. I don't really mind if 2 rail wagons require 3 trucks.
13:14:06  <planetmaker> V453000, we're talking supply capacity exclusively
13:14:35  <Terkhen> I don't know, I'm just taking guesses that sound correct :P
13:16:20  <planetmaker> well, so do I :-)
13:16:43  <planetmaker> And... monorail wagon (flatbed is what I look at) has no specific capacity callback. That should change, I guess
13:17:34  <planetmaker> btw, that 'stepping' and relation might be good: rail wagons increase from 30 (rail) to 37 (maglev). Thus default stepping is 3.5 for trains
13:18:05  <planetmaker> reducing that would mean 15, 16, 18 for rail / monorail / maglev
13:18:08  <planetmaker> sounds fine to me
13:19:07  <Terkhen> capacity increases between different types?
13:19:10  <V453000> I do it vice versa
13:19:17  <Terkhen> I don't think it should increase
13:19:19  <V453000> 40-30-20 rail-mono-mag
13:19:38  <Terkhen> if I update train types to a different type, I expect trains to keep carrying the same
13:19:51  <V453000> why? :)
13:19:54  <planetmaker> Terkhen, a capacity ratio of 2:3 seems default for road:rail
13:20:06  <Terkhen> why not? :P
13:20:18  <V453000> different technology :P
13:20:19  <planetmaker> so if you go for 10t (I'm quite fine with that), I'll go for 15t
13:20:54  <planetmaker> and similar for vehicles. That'll need adjustment in ogfx+trains then, too. But that makes sense also from an ECS gameplay perspective
13:21:14  <Terkhen> hm
13:21:26  <Terkhen> there is a slight increase of cargo capacity between the default wagons
13:21:29  <Terkhen> I never noticed it
13:22:42  <Terkhen> 20->25->27, 30->35->37, 40->45->47
13:22:48  <V453000> yes, it is "nice" that wagons improve over time, but I think that it should go vice versa to keep at least some availability/choices of any rail type. Therefore I make 40t/wagon for 200 kmh trains, 30t/wagon for 300 kmh trains and 20t/wagon for 400kmh+ trains
13:23:19  <V453000> there still is throughput increase if you count it, but not as huge
13:23:34  <V453000> maybe maglev might have 25 :) not too sure yet ... but you see the point
13:23:42  <Terkhen> planetmaker: so 10 for vehicles and 12 for sp instead of 8 and 10?
13:23:57  <V453000> on the other hand I am not sure how far is my point valid since you probably want to keep the style of original vehicles :)
13:24:02  <Terkhen> yup
13:24:22  <Terkhen> sounds valid for other sets
13:24:37  <V453000> ok :) dont mind me then
13:25:23  <planetmaker> Terkhen, I thought 8 for vehicles and 10 for SP? Wasn't that your suggestion?
13:25:30  <Terkhen> you said 10 now :P
13:25:35  <Terkhen> ok, 8/10 :)
13:25:38  <planetmaker> I was talking about SP :-)
13:25:46  <planetmaker> sorry, if it was confusing
13:25:54  <Terkhen> I'll commit it once I'm done with availability parameters
13:26:04  <Terkhen> just after that, I plan to ask for translations
13:26:26  <Terkhen> so we can have a new (more or less definitive) version this weekend
13:26:57  <planetmaker> :-) I heart that last week already :-P
13:27:28  <planetmaker> but things kept popping up :-)
13:27:51  <Terkhen> nah, I said that I would finish cargo support that day
13:28:01  <Terkhen> I finished the day after that :P
13:31:35  <planetmaker> :-)
13:32:23  <Terkhen> what's more correct, "busses" or "buses"?
13:32:33  <V453000> ss
13:32:44  <V453000> I am not sure if buses is correct at all
13:33:28  <Terkhen> ok
13:33:49  <Hirundo> I'd say buses
13:34:26  <V453000>
13:34:27  <Webster> Title: busses - Hledat Googlem (at
13:34:30  <Terkhen> hmmm... :)
13:34:32  <V453000> duh google cz
13:34:36  <V453000> well shows the same results
13:34:46  <Terkhen> I have a bias, because in spanish it is "buses", which is the one that sounds better to me :P
13:35:05  <V453000> I am sure busses is correct while I quite doubt buses is
13:35:14  <planetmaker> buses is BE. busses is AE
13:35:24  <Terkhen> oh
13:35:26  <planetmaker> but buses is also used in AE
13:35:32  <planetmaker> according to my online dictionary
13:35:45  <V453000> oh ok :) sorry for confusion then
13:35:46  <Terkhen> buses then, my american english translator can fix it later :P
13:35:49  <planetmaker>
13:35:50  <Webster> Title: | bus | Wörterbuch Englisch-Deutsch (at
13:35:53  <V453000>
13:35:54  <Webster> Title: Buses Transport for London (at
13:35:56  <V453000> oh :)
13:36:01  <planetmaker> hehe
13:36:44  <planetmaker> intuitively I'd have written it with 'ss', though
13:37:56  <V453000> I quite thought that busses would have been british
13:38:05  <V453000> but well .. :)
13:49:05  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - (foobar) @
13:49:22  <planetmaker> err, what?
13:49:46  <FooBar> that's a script that generates a nml highlighter for notepad++
13:49:58  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - nppp_nml_r1665.xml (foobar) @
13:50:03  <FooBar> modified from Terkhen's original script
13:50:17  <planetmaker> ah :-)
13:50:23  <Terkhen> nice :P
13:51:58  <FooBar> I had to many errors and missing keywords in my current highlighter, so I decided fix it but not by manually splitting the keywords in four groups any more :)
13:52:21  <FooBar> don't know if the script is 100% efficient, but it works
13:52:29  <Terkhen> yes, it's missing some things
13:52:38  <Terkhen> but not enough things to make me look at it :P
13:52:46  <Terkhen> for example, the fields of param blocks
13:52:57  <FooBar> I meant my added code actually
13:53:13  <Terkhen> oh :)
13:53:27  <FooBar> I did add one file to get words from though
13:53:31  <FooBar> for the new style callbacks
13:53:43  <FooBar> cat ./nml/nml/actions/    | grep "^    '"         | awk -F\' '{ print  }' >> temp_2.txt
13:56:08  <FooBar> I'll figure out the action 14 stuff and then update your script as well
13:56:49  <Terkhen> nice, thanks :)
13:57:30  <Terkhen> only def_value, type, min_value and max_value seem to be missing from action14 stuff
13:57:36  <Terkhen> and maybe other stranger words that are not usually used
13:57:46  <Terkhen> IIRC I added some manually already
13:58:07  <Terkhen> oh, and the "bool" type
13:58:26  <FooBar> "names" and "type" are also missing
13:58:45  <Yexo> don't forget "bit_num" for bool fields
13:59:05  <FooBar> that's not even documented ;)
13:59:27  <Yexo> oh
13:59:59  <Yexo> it's actually "bit"
14:00:09  <FooBar> is that an attribute or value?
14:00:09  <Yexo> and it has been supported for a very long time
14:00:15  <Yexo> an attribute
14:00:23  <FooBar> ok, adding it :)
14:00:28  <Yexo> type: bool; bit: 3;
14:00:34  <FooBar> in the script, not the documentation :P
14:00:46  <Yexo> ok, I'll add it to the documentation
14:01:19  <FooBar> :)
14:01:38  <FooBar> hmm, the value "int" is tricky. It's both a function and a value...
14:02:36  <FooBar> for consistency I'll add bool to the list of functions as well
14:03:32  <Yexo> bool is not a supported function
14:03:46  <Yexo> !!(expr) is the same as bool(expr) would do
14:05:11  <FooBar> I know, but we have "int" as value for param type and we have "int" as function
14:05:27  <FooBar> Depending on the use case they should have a different colour
14:05:48  <FooBar> but that's not possible in np++
14:06:20  <FooBar> so I added "bool" to the "function colour" instead of the "constant colour" for sake of consistency
14:06:29  <FooBar> although it isn't really a function
14:11:22  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - (foobar) @
14:11:23  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - (foobar) @
14:11:56  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-dos.act (planetmaker) @
14:11:56  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - photoshop-ttd-dos-noact.act (planetmaker) @
14:13:31  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - nppp_nml_r1665.xml (foobar) @
14:14:00  <FooBar> planetmaker: nice coincidence: "...-noact.act" :P
14:40:02  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3073 (New): reorder views of motorway objects (foobar) @
14:41:34  <planetmaker> hehe
14:51:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Revision 127:4c500062df29: Feature #3053: Add a parameter for enabling /... (Terkhen) @
14:52:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Feature #3053 (Closed): Parameter for disabling / enabling vehicle types (Terkhen) @
15:14:48  <Yexo> Terkhen: your last post in the OpenGFX+Road vehicles topic contains a broken url
15:16:05  <Terkhen> thanks, fixed :)
15:19:46  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 45:95c6fc669de1: Fix: slope check of gantry signs (closes #3059) (foobar) @
15:19:46  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 46:8112e6523238: Fix: display single gantry supports on slopes at... (foobar) @
15:19:46  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Bug #3059 (Closed): Slope check of gantry signs incomplete (foobar) @
16:38:36  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 47:4f7b334eb20a: Fix: gantry sign bounding box and unify code (foobar) @
16:38:36  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 48:59369802199e: Doc: prepare for release (foobar) @
16:38:36  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 49:5fe834ad8c9b: Release: 0.4.0 (foobar) @
16:40:37  <planetmaker> Terkhen: don't bother with a bug report.
16:40:56  <Terkhen> I added an edit field :P
16:40:56  <planetmaker> I'll look at it now. But ingame I don't see it. I'll test ttdviewer
16:40:56  <planetmaker> But I guess we need not bother
16:40:57  <Terkhen> I can't see any bugs
16:41:09  <planetmaker> :-)
16:41:56  <Brot6> dutchroadfurniture: update from 0.3.0 to 0.4.0 done -
16:42:05  <Terkhen> I didn't see them either in old FIRS, but even then I guess I don't have the right to ask if it only happens on whatever patch he is using :)
16:45:45  <planetmaker> of course not ;-)
16:45:57  <planetmaker> but of course he doesn't see that.
16:46:10  <planetmaker> Well, he doesn't need to. But we then don't need to look into it :-P
16:49:01  <planetmaker> I found it anyway one of those remarkable answers which show total ignorance and total arrogance ;-)
16:49:07  <planetmaker> peacefully united
16:50:04  <Terkhen> :P
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16:59:03  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature Request #3038: hard shoulder check adjacent tile to decide slope o... (foobar) @
17:08:54  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Bug #3038: hard shoulder check adjacent tile to decide slope or not (foobar) @
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18:31:16  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3074 (Assigned): matrixborden (foobar) @
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19:05:07  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22930 still failed (#2964) -
19:10:45  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22929 to r22930 done -
19:12:29  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22930 still failed (#2966) -
19:14:13  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22930 still failed (#2446) -
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21:38:13  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Bug #3075 (New): slope check for gantry signs doesn't allow signs in trench (foobar) @
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