Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 8th October 2011:
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01:07:22  *** JVassie has quit IRC
02:31:47  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2750: Tracking Table (Elukka) @
06:32:57  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3124 (New): sprites wider than 255px needed for base sets (planetmaker) @
06:34:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3124: sprites wider than 255px needed for base sets (planetmaker) @
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08:38:43  <planetmaker> Yexo: do you know by heart what compression NML uses for sprite encoding in terms of compression bits used when NOCROP is (not) specified?
08:39:26  <planetmaker> I'm trying to match md5sums for grfcodec and nml output for a baseset file
08:39:50  <planetmaker> but with 5kbyte size difference that's still difficult ;-)
08:40:16  <planetmaker> (nml compresses better)
08:49:10  <Rubidium> ghehe
08:49:26  <Rubidium> might very well be that the compressor of grfcodec is somewhat more braindead than nmls?
08:49:45  <Rubidium> try decoding the nml-grf and then recoding it with grfcodec. Does that yield the same result?
08:50:25  <Rubidium> then I'm meaning: nml-grf == recoded decoded grf (if so, it's not the compressor)
08:54:22  <planetmaker> it's not the compressor
08:55:07  <planetmaker> though they interestingly have the same size but different md5sum (does the md5sum consider filename?)
08:57:30  <planetmaker> doesn't. Hm...
09:00:50  <planetmaker> hm... the de-coded grf doesn't have the nocrop set anywhere whereas in the NML I told a few sprites to not be cropped...
09:02:50  <planetmaker> and compression 01 or 09 is chosen automatically it seems
09:16:44  <Rubidium> planetmaker: md5 doesn't care about the filename
09:18:31  <Rubidium> planetmaker: cropping happens when encoding, after decoding it's still "cropped"
09:18:46  <Rubidium> no need to crop it again
09:19:21  <Rubidium> can you perform a binary diff and see where the bits roughly change?
09:19:33  <Rubidium> and/or whether there are many changed bytes
09:19:52  <planetmaker> uh?
09:19:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3125 (New): NOCROP not respected (planetmaker) @
09:20:13  <planetmaker> NOCROP should iirc also show in the de-compiled grf's nfo code
09:20:34  <planetmaker> or do I err there?
09:22:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3125: NOCROP not respected (planetmaker) @
09:22:22  <Rubidium> I think you do
09:22:40  <Rubidium> I see no reason for the crop bit to be saved in the grf file
09:23:21  <planetmaker> hm
09:26:08  <planetmaker> but it is stored
09:26:40  <planetmaker> de-compiling the original grf gives me back the 'no crop' bit
09:29:53  <Rubidium> but the no crop bit is pointless
09:30:36  <planetmaker> not during compilation
09:30:52  <planetmaker> when compiling with "please crop"
09:31:25  <Rubidium> in a decoded file it is pointless as there is nothing to crop off
09:31:41  <planetmaker> if it originally was compiled with "please crop" only
09:32:26  <planetmaker> which usually is stupid
09:32:51  <planetmaker> but this bit doesn't hurt either and makes de-compilation easier
09:34:53  <Rubidium> how does it make decompilation easier? It can't uncrop the sprites as it has no clue what the original size was
09:37:14  <Rubidium> at worst it makes more difficult, if someone assumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 9 are valid values
09:37:49  <planetmaker> It makes clear which sprites were meant to contain that extra transparency
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09:39:22  <planetmaker> otherwise the de-compiled code was incomplete and re-compilation would break the need for no-crop possibly
09:49:21  <Rubidium> my point is that the bit not being there doesn't mean that it can be cropped
09:50:09  <planetmaker> why not?
09:50:48  <Rubidium> try recompiling openttd's extra grf with cropping enabled
09:51:01  <planetmaker> is it compiled w/o cropping?
09:51:06  <Rubidium> yes
09:51:14  <planetmaker> then it fails of course
09:52:07  <Rubidium> which is basically why the 'do not crop' not being set does not mean it is safe to crop it
09:52:26  <Rubidium> as such, when decoding a NewGRF... recoding should *never* crop it as you simply cannot be sure about it
09:53:17  <Rubidium> unless you store whether you cropped or not, but then you still have legacy grfs
09:53:20  <planetmaker> possibly, yes
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10:09:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1684:e7ac09ec33d4: Fix: output 'select case for next substring' code (yexo) @
10:13:57  <Yexo> planetmaker: there are two possible compression schemes
10:14:09  <planetmaker> yes, 01 and 09
10:14:12  <Yexo> when using grfcodec you have to specify the compression scheme manually for each and every sprite
10:14:27  <Yexo> when using nml that is not possible, nml will try both and pick the one that results in the smallest output
10:14:35  <planetmaker> :-)
10:14:37  <Yexo> as such there is no way to compare grfcodec and nml output directly
10:14:46  <Yexo> this has nothing to do with cropping at all
10:15:06  <planetmaker> yep, I got that :-)
10:15:20  <Yexo> the only thing you could do to compare output is to encode the grf twice (onces with nml, once with grfcodec), than decode it
10:15:32  <Yexo> the spritesheet you get from decoding should be exactly the same
10:16:54  <planetmaker> what I do is: nmlc -c --nfo blub.nfo --grf blub.grf blub.nml
10:17:12  <planetmaker> and then grfcodec -e blub.grf
10:17:27  <planetmaker> the two grf imho should be identical
10:17:32  <planetmaker> or not?
10:18:15  <planetmaker> hm...
10:18:16  <Yexo> as I said, nml picks the best compression algorithm for each sprite. However doing so is a bit expensive, so it only does that during grf output, not for nfo output
10:19:22  <Yexo> which means that technically the nfo and grf output are not exactly the same
10:19:40  <planetmaker> hm, ok
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11:26:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 748:54d66a1fb93d: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile framework r364 (planetmaker) @
11:31:46  <frosch123> yay, sizeof(uint32) == 8
11:32:04  <frosch123> that's why newgrfviewer totally fails on my machine :)
11:32:28  <planetmaker> :-)
11:36:25  <frosch123> lol, so, qmake includes "rm -f *~ core *.core" in its default "make clean"
11:36:50  <Terkhen> Qt has some special types that are supposedly guaranteed to have the same size in all supported OS
11:37:07  <frosch123> yeah, but newgrfviewer defines those types itself
11:37:10  <frosch123> but fails
11:37:26  <frosch123> it works nwo
11:37:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Revision 2:7d962855d1c9: Minor fixes spotted by frosch, and .hgignore added as su... (UnicycleBloke) @
11:38:36  <Terkhen> ok :)
11:41:11  <frosch123> how are those qt types called?
11:42:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Code Review #3123 (Closed): Linux port (frosch) @
11:42:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Code Review #3123 (Closed): Linux port (UnicycleBloke) @
11:43:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Feature #3122 (Closed): Make sure the software builds under Linux (UnicycleBloke) @
11:43:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Feature #3122 (Closed): Make sure the software builds under Linux (UnicycleBloke) @
11:43:03  <frosch123> qint apparently
11:46:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Code Review #3126 (New): do not add binaries to source repo (Ammler) @
11:46:37  <Rubidium> he should rebuild the repository anyway ;)
11:46:56  <Rubidium> maybe starting with a svn-to-hg conversion ;)
11:46:59  <Ammler> indeeed
11:49:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Code Review #3126: do not add binaries to source repo (Ammler) @
11:52:06  <Terkhen> frosch123: quint32, qreal and so on
11:52:15  <frosch123> found them :)
11:52:23  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Bug #3127 (New): 64bit linux compilation (frosch) @
11:53:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: why do you use forum pm to discuss devzone issues? :-P
11:54:23  <planetmaker> :-)
11:54:55  <Ammler> building projects on devzone works for every kind
11:55:03  <Ammler> there is no limit ot newgrfs or such
11:55:42  <Ammler> (it needs a custom spec)
11:56:40  <Ammler> that might be a reason against bamboo, but I have no clue about it
11:57:36  <frosch123> devzone can compile windows binaries?
11:58:20  <planetmaker> not easily
11:59:31  <Terkhen> in theory, it is easy to crosscompile windows qt binaries from linux
12:02:15  <frosch123> meh, currently newgrf viewer is not in a state so i can drop grf2html completely
12:04:18  <Ammler> frosch123: of course
12:04:23  <Ammler> via mingw
12:05:05  <Ammler> devzone can  build everything you can with your linux box
12:05:15  <Ammler> well, we say you can with your openSUSE box :-)
12:12:11  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 366:de25f18159cb: Doc: A few more numbers on speed (planetmaker) @
12:12:11  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 367:7b127e9280e4: Fix: Don't bundle files which are not part of... (planetmaker) @
12:13:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Code Review #3126: do not add binaries to source repo (Ammler) @
12:15:56  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 368:100bdddae367: Doc: Prepare changelog for 0.6.0 (planetmaker) @
12:15:56  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 369:74fe4826dbdf: Added tag 0.6.0 for changeset 100bdddae367 (planetmaker) @
12:17:26  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #3128 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
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13:07:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Viewer - Revision 3:07da17141920: Added an UNUSED macro to suppress compiler warning about... (UnicycleBloke) @
13:29:26  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 370:7d0851bc43f4: Fix: Bundle check was broken (planetmaker) @
13:36:00  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 371:bad7476c92dc: Doc: Update of changelog (planetmaker) @
13:36:01  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 372:c95dd61b67e1: Added tag 0.6.1 for changeset bad7476c92dc (planetmaker) @
13:38:07  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from 0.5.8 to 0.6.1 done -
13:42:29  <planetmaker> nah, finally working :-)
13:47:43  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 216:236867b9c087: avoid including the same png file twice, ... (Eddi) @
14:11:44  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 749:546ab5ea77ba: Fix (r748): Don't forget the obg file. Move its generation t... (planetmaker) @
14:16:13  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 217:7fc18028332d: separate decision chain for purchase menu... (Eddi) @
14:21:04  <Ammler> planetmaker: if building didn't work at all, I see no reason to make a new tag, you could simply move it
14:21:41  <planetmaker> Yes, actually I probably could
14:22:23  <Ammler> well, it would be less confusing
14:22:42  <Ammler> does not matter for that project...
14:22:54  <planetmaker> yes
14:23:29  <planetmaker> I just wanted the gimp-with-layered-names thing tag'ed :-)
14:27:16  <Yexo> <frosch123> devzone can compile windows binaries? <- the devzone compiles windows binaries for nml
14:30:34  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3107 (Closed): Using identifiers of spritesets that are not used in a... (yexo) @
14:37:07  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 218:52bf52d9782e: add dependencies for generate's submodule... (Eddi) @
14:42:27  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 219:9c7cdd2e1057: remove redundant dependency on (Eddi) @
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15:29:35  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 750:5633c89a56fd: Change [Makefile]: Enable the use of nml source files when N... (planetmaker) @
15:31:03  <planetmaker> Ammler: if I add nml to the requirements - will it use stable or nightly nml?
15:31:32  <planetmaker> in build/grf.spec: BuildRequires:  mercurial p7zip xz grfcodec unix2dos grf2html nml
15:35:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: there is uses the nml I packaged
15:35:30  <planetmaker> which is nightly?
15:35:43  <Ammler> no, whatevery I package for suse
15:35:53  <Ammler> or someone else, but most openttd things are from me
15:35:58  <planetmaker> :-)
15:36:02  <Ammler> it uses the suse package
15:36:28  <planetmaker> yes. So how do the nml grfs do it? They use a default package for nml
15:36:29  <Ammler> if you want to use nml nightly, do it like we do for our newgrfs
15:36:36  <planetmaker> yes
15:36:48  <Ammler> if you want to use nml release, add ";releases"
15:37:08  <planetmaker> so how do newgrfs do it? They don't require a grf.spec file :-)
15:37:17  <Ammler> I wonder, if Bamboo or whatever capable to do such things
15:37:28  <Ammler> planetmaker: they do
15:37:37  <Ammler> they use the default newgrf spec
15:37:50  <planetmaker> yes, I know
15:38:01  <planetmaker> I guess I find it in the repo 'compilefarm', eh? :-)
15:38:05  <Ammler>
15:38:14  <Ammler> check file requires
15:38:26  <Ammler> can also be added to .devzone/build on a project
15:39:00  <Ammler> I know, I know, my buildscript is awesome,
15:39:28  <Ammler> unbeatable by all the profesional integrated build applications around
15:40:01  <planetmaker> hey, I didn't say anything nor did I mean to imply anything
15:40:15  <planetmaker> yes, it works very well indeed
15:40:25  <Ammler> :-D
15:40:56  <planetmaker> I'm just not too familiar with how to configure these spec files
15:41:24  <Ammler> :-D
15:41:47  <Ammler> spec files are "limited" bash scripts
15:42:01  <Ammler> sorry, I still try to get familiar with my new laptop keyboard
15:42:14  <planetmaker> :-)
15:43:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: as an idea: can we provide some "template" spec files or .devzone dirs which e.g. then work for a programme to be built as both windows and linux binary?
15:43:36  <Ammler> yes, but first you need to show me how to build a windows binary on linux
15:43:37  <planetmaker> Or to add a collection of examples to the makefile framework
15:43:41  <Ammler> like yexo did with nml
15:43:41  <planetmaker> :-)
15:44:23  <Ammler> just check the specs of those projects
15:44:37  <Ammler> also e.g. your example project has a own spec
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15:45:11  <planetmaker> I thought along the lines of it might work
15:45:12  <Webster> Title: Install The Mingw Cross-Compiler - WxWiki (at
15:45:23  <Ammler> the issue is not that our devzone can't build it
15:45:39  <Ammler> the issue might be that you do not know, how to crosscompile
15:46:08  <Ammler> e.g. ttdviewer uses some mingw packages to compile pascal
15:46:32  <planetmaker> yes. But a user should not need to know about cross-compilation ;-)
15:46:57  <Ammler> well, someone needs to
15:47:17  <planetmaker> yes, I hoped you wanted to know :-P
15:47:45  <Ammler> yes, I wanted to investigate it for DevZone2
15:47:56  <planetmaker> iirc there's a cross-compiler package for gentoo or so
15:48:05  <planetmaker> which might be possible to build
15:48:13  <Ammler> openSUSE has quite good mingw repos
15:48:31  <Ammler> so the tools are for sure around
15:49:39  <Ammler>
15:49:40  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> Search Results (at" target="_blank">
15:53:18  <Terkhen> bbl
15:54:10  <planetmaker> Ammler: sure, tools are around :-)
15:54:19  <planetmaker> I tried to motivate you to use them :-P
15:54:36  <Ammler> well, has someone already tried to crosscompile it?
15:54:58  <Ammler> is the makefile capable of?
15:55:52  <Ammler> the problem is that I have no clue about qt
15:56:06  <Ammler> (about any dev tool)
15:56:28  <Ammler> so it is kinda hard for me to port a project to support a new platform
15:56:28  <planetmaker> Ammler: for starters I'd not worry about that particular project but try to cross-compile a simple 'hello world' c programme
15:56:40  <Ammler> but if you say, it does already support it, it is quite easy to setup it
15:57:02  <planetmaker> I don't know the additional requirements of that particular project
15:57:14  <planetmaker> but that can be sorted out when we can in principle cross-compile
15:57:26  <Ammler> cross-compile is not the issue
15:57:30  <Ammler> that is simple
15:58:08  <Ammler> hmm, is openttd still able to crosscompile?
15:59:15  <Ammler> or do you have a tutorial for crosscompile a helloworld?
15:59:35  <planetmaker> no. But I thought it's not the issue?
16:00:06  <Ammler> well, I need a guide, do you think, I can it from my head?
16:00:17  <Ammler> I meant, it is not a issue for the devzone
16:00:22  <planetmaker> see the link I posted above
16:00:25  <Ammler> but it is for me :-P
16:00:45  <Ammler> e.g. people like you could do it quite easy
16:01:03  <Ammler> if you do cross compile on your pc at home, why should it be harder on the devzone?
16:01:22  <Ammler> I never have done it, yet
16:01:36  <planetmaker> nor I
16:02:37  <Ammler> for which project is the wiki page you posted?
16:02:51  <Ammler> which source can I run it on?
16:04:32  <planetmaker> I don't know :-P
16:04:51  <Ammler> well, what do you want to cross compile?
16:04:57  <Ammler> newgrf-viewer?
16:05:49  <planetmaker> <-- but this gives you also the example
16:05:50  <Webster> Title: Cross-Compiling Under Linux - WxWiki (at
16:06:00  <planetmaker> yes, newgrf-viewer. But also grfcodec
16:06:46  <Ammler> bamboo not able to build those projects?
16:07:15  <planetmaker> probably is. But they're hosted on the DevZone
16:07:25  <planetmaker> As such I'm asking if we can build them here...
16:07:42  <Ammler> ok
16:08:13  <Ammler> well, I can try, but there are other experts here, which could do that much easier like frosch123 ;-)
16:09:04  <Ammler> hmm, maybe there is cross compile wiki for openttd
16:09:14  <planetmaker> iirc it's outdated
16:09:43  <planetmaker> and if I understood you and the cross-compile thing I linked correctly, it's mostly about using the proper compiler...
16:09:57  <Ammler> well
16:10:01  <planetmaker> which means installing the proper packages in the chroot
16:10:17  <Ammler> yes, and setup makefile
16:10:33  <Ammler> to be sure, it uses the "other" gcc etc.
16:11:04  <Ammler> setup cross compile environment is no issue with openSUSE
16:11:09  <Ammler> that I said already
16:11:33  <planetmaker> but it has to be done :-)
16:11:39  <Ammler> but _I_ have no clue, how to configure a project so it does actually compile for other platform
16:12:08  <Ammler> yes, let us test it on our test vm
16:12:43  <planetmaker> that configure is explained on the page(s) I linked
16:12:53  <planetmaker> Compile with ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/i586-mingw32 --host=i586-mingw32msvc --build=i686-linux --your_optional_switches
16:15:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, if the project has a configure file :-P
16:15:44  <planetmaker> :-P
16:15:53  <Ammler> I guess openttd does support such things
16:15:54  <frosch123> for newgrf-viewer you have to run "qmake && make"
16:16:02  <frosch123> if that is what you were searching for?
16:16:29  <frosch123> (run it in trunk/NewGRFViewer)
16:16:33  <Ammler> frosch123: and what to use for host and build ?
16:17:17  <frosch123> i did not quite catch the topic you were talking about :)
16:17:33  <Ammler> we like to cross compile
16:17:44  <Ammler> building windows binaries for grfcodec
16:18:04  <frosch123> i only ever cross compiled ttdp on a my old gentoo box
16:18:04  <Ammler> or other projects on devzone
16:18:36  <Ammler> grf2html?
16:18:54  <Ammler> ah no, that was other side
16:19:09  <frosch123> grf2html i only ever compiled natively
16:19:13  <frosch123> on windows and linux
16:19:31  <Ammler> yes, and you need mingw on linux for the windows libs
16:19:54  <frosch123> for grf2html?
16:20:05  <Ammler> I guess
16:20:14  <frosch123> that is only because of the stupid thing i did on windows for the datafiles
16:20:23  <frosch123> it is likely best to remove that crap :p
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17:02:56  <Brot6> test: update from r116 to r117 done -
17:03:42  <Ammler> so why does that not work for cets?
17:10:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3129 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:17:39  <planetmaker> nice. internal error on regression test?
17:20:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3130 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:22:39  <planetmaker> hm, I broke it :S
17:22:59  <planetmaker> hm, of course I did :S
17:24:08  <Brot6> cets: update from r212 to r219 done (569 warnings) -
17:25:26  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r365 to r372 done -
17:26:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3130 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:26:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 751:1d83b811f681: Fix #3130 (r750): If we want to check for nmlc being present... (planetmaker) @
17:26:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3130 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @
17:28:17  <Brot6> vactrainset: compile of r1 still failed (#3044) -
17:30:50  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 752:aca9e62c0703: Fix (r751): And yet another type... :S (planetmaker) @
17:33:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3131 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
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17:57:02  <Brot6> MailAI - Revision 14:ebed577c0bae: BUGFIX didn't send stopped and to be sold vehicles to the depot (Hephi) @
19:13:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3129 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
19:13:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1685:908b2ce7a76b: Fix #3129 (r1684): not all cases were handled ... (yexo) @
19:13:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3129 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (yexo) @
19:16:18  <Brot6> nml: update from r1683 to r1685 done -
19:37:44  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 220:7f9d80993aec: erroneous date range for ET85 graphics (Eddi) @
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21:51:32  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 221:8f0f7ed9980d: stub for company-specific liveries based ... (Eddi) @
21:55:58  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 373:caf34b82ba54: Change [NFO]: Write dependencies from (planetmaker) @
21:56:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 753:ec2b1f5a407c: Change [Makefile]: Write dependencies in as one per ... (planetmaker) @
21:56:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 754:32036867fa55: Change [Makefile]: Redirect output of 'which' to /dev/null. ... (planetmaker) @
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21:57:47  <Brot6> opengfx: compile of r754 still failed (#3131) -
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22:26:48  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 755:377eb771f923: Fix [Makefile]: Dependency check with mdep failed on relativ... (planetmaker) @
22:36:21  <Brot6> opengfx: compile of r755 still failed (#3131) -
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22:56:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 756:83678a312bec: Fix [Makefile]: Dependencies were not always build as they s... (planetmaker) @
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23:14:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 757:45a0af590c57: Fix [Makefile]: Building from source bundle was broken due t... (planetmaker) @
23:16:14  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r747 to r757 done -
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23:34:21  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 222:f878de61a396: fill epoch based company selection with a... (Eddi) @

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