Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 4th December 2011:
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05:56:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 864:287acce3d8ca: Fix #3221: Runway lights were not flashing in proper order (planetmaker) @
05:56:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3221 (Closed): Review airport runway sprites (planetmaker) @
05:56:52  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 147:c68914765eba: Fix: Runway lights were flashing in wrong order (planetmaker) @
06:28:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 865:3b42ddc63b70: Change #2987: Improve look of food processing plant (oberhue... (planetmaker) @
06:31:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2987 (Closed): glitch with food processor (planetmaker) @
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08:18:58  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Feature #3315 (New): setting to disable airport noise (planetmaker) @
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08:54:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can define author of commit with -u on a hg repo
08:54:56  <planetmaker> yes. Why?
08:54:56  <Ammler> no need ot add it in brackets at message end
08:55:19  <Ammler> another svn issue :-P
08:55:26  <planetmaker> no
08:55:50  <planetmaker> non of those things was really a patch. And it'd be quite confusing of who submitted it
08:56:11  <Ammler> well, then you started to add credits with commit message...
08:56:39  <planetmaker> I usually do that when the vast majority of the work is not mine
08:57:14  <planetmaker> i.e. in the food plant case I still copied the graphics into the proper file
08:57:45  <planetmaker> but nothing else, thus my work is minor. Still I'm both the patch creator and the one who commits it
08:59:08  <planetmaker> and I simply find it a matter of curtosy to mention in the commit the person who did most of the work
08:59:18  <planetmaker> while still being clear who submitted it
08:59:21  <Ammler> well, it is something we didn't do back I committed to opengfx :-)
08:59:48  <Ammler> we used the authoroverview for credits
08:59:59  <planetmaker> I don't mind much how others do it. Of course I use that.
09:00:14  <planetmaker> That's the one list to lookup if you search for credits
09:01:18  <planetmaker> in any case, the sad thing is the tense of your sentence "didn't do back I committed" :`-(
09:01:53  <Ammler> yeah :-P
09:02:17  <Ammler> you see, I bacame completely incompatible
09:02:54  <planetmaker> 09:59 planetmaker: I don't mind much how others do it
09:03:14  <Ammler> :-)
09:03:55  <Ammler> IMO, credits are a important part of style
09:04:09  <planetmaker> they are.
09:04:31  <planetmaker> The most important parts here are, IMHO the authorsreview.csv and readme.ptxt
09:04:49  <planetmaker> those two are a must
09:05:01  <Ammler> ah ok, you still maintain that file?
09:05:05  <planetmaker> of course
09:05:29  <planetmaker> if you had looked at those commits, you'd seen that I changed them therein ;-)
09:06:29  <Ammler> I did, that is why I was confused...
09:06:49  <planetmaker> I only add the name to the commit message when I personally did not much more than just commit it (like just replace graphics w/o need to re-align or so)
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11:29:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: what again is the issue with using nml release for opengfx?
11:34:08  <Ammler> btw. update worked, just with docs seems a issue
11:34:09  <Webster> Title: nml 0.2.0 : Python Package Index (at
11:35:51  <Ammler> 60 downloads, interesting
11:39:22  <planetmaker> Ammler: currently there's no issue. But the development branch of NML will produce NewGRFs of version grf v8 which we don't want for the base set
11:39:43  <planetmaker> we don't yet want to make OpenGFX incompatible with all older OpenTTD versions
11:40:15  <planetmaker> as such: we declared 0.2 branch as "long term stable for grf v7" and will use that for the time being
11:40:16  <Ammler> hmm, nml 0.2.0 does make opengfx incompatible, nightly doesn't?
11:40:34  <planetmaker> no. Currently neither. 0.2.0 will / should never
11:40:43  <planetmaker> nightly might
11:40:54  <Ammler> so again, why do you not want to make opengfx with 0.2.0?
11:41:09  <planetmaker> as I want OpenGFX stay compatible. And be NewGRF v7
11:41:20  <planetmaker> NML nightly will create NewGRF v8
11:41:23  <planetmaker> soon
11:41:26  <Ammler> yes, but wouldn't 0.2.0 ensure that rather?
11:42:06  <planetmaker> eh?
11:42:22  <frosch123> [12:40] <Ammler> hmm, nml 0.2.0 does make opengfx incompatible, nightly doesn't? <- it's the other way around
11:42:24  <Ammler> opengfx is built with nightly, not with release
11:42:37  <planetmaker> OpenGFX shall now be built with release
11:42:43  <Ammler> we once suggested to change that, but you declined, I am not sure, why
11:42:47  <planetmaker> if it still builds with nightly it should be changed
11:42:56  <Ammler> ah ok
11:43:01  <planetmaker> I declined that as long as there was no 0.2 :-)
11:43:16  <Ammler> no, yexo asked you to change that after he released 0.2
11:43:49  <Ammler> so shall I changed that?
11:44:15  <Ammler> if there is no reason, I can at least make the package onsuse now
11:44:20  <planetmaker> yes, please
11:44:38  <planetmaker> if I said differently after the 0.2 release it was a mis-understanding
11:45:10  <planetmaker> hm... though... I guess
11:45:14  <planetmaker> Now I remember :-)
11:45:26  <planetmaker> I think we said "keep nightly as long as NML still is compatible"
11:46:01  <planetmaker> so yes, maybe we should keep it. For now
11:46:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 866:922c83885e84: Change: use nml releases instead nightlies for building (Ammler) @
11:46:20  <planetmaker> where does it need change and can that change be prepared already (but not executed)?
11:46:33  <Ammler> no, changed and I would be happy to have a test which does assure the package works
11:46:45  <planetmaker> ok
11:46:53  <Ammler> but you see the change and how
11:46:59  <Ammler> so feel free to adjust :-P
11:47:25  <planetmaker> might be good. As we'll need an OpenGFX release soon. And I might have forgotten ;-)
11:47:40  <planetmaker> So now the DevZone will use the same NML as other distros might use
11:48:08  <Ammler> exactly, now I can use 0.2.0 on suse
11:48:13  <Ammler> else I would have used nightly
11:49:40  <planetmaker> ok
11:51:18  <Ammler> maybe nml could add a parameter to define the version
11:51:37  <Ammler> so you could still make v7 newgrf
11:51:55  <planetmaker> too much trouble
11:52:06  <Ammler> ok
11:52:15  <planetmaker> especially callbacks, articulated vehicles would need completely different treatment
11:52:44  <planetmaker> and... we make bleeding-edge NewGRFs ;-)
11:52:53  <planetmaker> and the next beta will be able to read them anyway
11:54:58  <Ammler> but as .ong as those features are not used, is it still too much trouble?
11:55:12  <Ammler> why not increment it according to the need?
11:55:23  <Ammler> or will opengfx itself need v8 soon?
11:55:57  <Ammler> long"
11:55:59  <Ammler> mäh
11:56:09  <planetmaker> sorry, what?
11:56:15  <Ammler> :-)
11:56:16  <Rubidium> they ought to switch to v8 when they switch to dos graphics ;)
11:56:45  <planetmaker> I thought about switching either now (rather not) or next summer
11:57:17  <planetmaker> then OpenTTD 1.2.0 has another one to three releases and we can switch safely
11:57:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant mainly that nml should define v8 just if needed
11:57:33  <planetmaker> also that is more work than it's worth
11:57:36  <planetmaker> IMHO
11:58:02  <Ammler> well, maintaining 2 branches while still in development...
11:58:18  <planetmaker> even the adv. spritelayouts and such are only in ottd 1.2.0. And then one can use grf v8, too
11:58:42  <planetmaker> in any case, everyone can use NML 0.2.x
11:58:51  <planetmaker> and some things might be backported, if appropriate
11:59:00  <planetmaker> which would mean we have already two branches
11:59:10  <planetmaker> as we explicitly said: grf v7 is 0.2.x
11:59:15  <Ammler> well, I hope you don't :-P
11:59:15  <planetmaker> And all later and trunk grf v8
11:59:39  <planetmaker> hope we don't what?
11:59:57  <Ammler> backport features
12:00:20  <planetmaker> That's where the "too much work" part might come in ;-)
12:00:38  <planetmaker> we'll backport whatever OpenGFX needs. Or we'll move OpenGFX to grf v8
12:01:06  <planetmaker> but OpenGFX needs nothing new afaik.
12:01:20  <planetmaker> It has canals. And that's good and fine.
12:01:25  <planetmaker> And the rest is basic stuff
12:01:27  <Ammler> also what happens, if you try to load a v8 newgrf on current openttd?
12:01:39  <Ammler> is that a hard fail?
12:01:51  <planetmaker> it should complain about unsupported newgrf version
12:01:59  <planetmaker> like for grf v1...2
12:02:09  <Ammler> I mean a newgrf witch just the version string, no features
12:02:18  <planetmaker> yes
12:02:33  <Ammler> so it would still load?
12:02:45  <frosch123> ottd 1.1. will refuse to load grfv8 grfs
12:02:53  <frosch123> ottd 1.0 will silently fail/crash
12:03:09  <planetmaker> can OpenTTD crash silently?
12:03:15  <Ammler> _d
12:03:17  <frosch123> :p
12:04:11  <frosch123> actually i have no idea what happens if ottd tries to disable a baseset due to grfv8
12:04:19  <Ammler> do you know someone installed nml via pypi?
12:04:41  <Ammler> pip or easy_install
12:04:47  <Rubidium> frosch123: it will just complain it misses a lot of sprites
12:04:52  <Rubidium> and the game will look quite horrible
12:06:39  <Ammler> planetmaker: instead building opengfx with legacy nml, you could also tell people to use legacy opengfx
12:07:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. But not yet
12:07:18  <planetmaker> As said, we might in summer make that step
12:08:13  <planetmaker> at one stage we want to break compatibility there probably anyway, e.g. by moving to DOS palette
12:08:56  <Ammler> well, it just could come the time, when people like to use nml release for developing
12:09:23  <planetmaker> Well, they could now, couldn't they?
12:09:41  <Ammler> yes, now :-P
12:10:13  <planetmaker> In so far, the proper dep for OpenGFX should be not 'release' but release of 0.2.x branch
12:10:13  <Ammler> they might also like to use v8 features
12:11:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: that's the point, I would not like to need 2 nml versions
12:11:41  <planetmaker> well. We might need it, though
12:12:10  <planetmaker> but we should discuss that when that becomes an issue
12:12:22  <planetmaker> as things might look different then :-)
12:12:47  <planetmaker> As I don't know when we have NML releases of what kind :-)
12:12:57  <Ammler> yes, just mentioned it so you have in mind the troubles you could create with such decisisons
12:13:39  <Ammler> nml is simply not worth to support multiple branches
12:14:26  <Rubidium> depends where multiple starts; if it's stable and development, then I see it as a sign of getting to maturity
12:14:33  <Ammler> we have already a lot "special" tools for openttd :-)
12:14:46  <Ammler> Rubidium: yes
12:14:59  <Ammler> [13:10] <planetmaker> In so far, the proper dep for OpenGFX should be not 'release' but release of 0.2.x branch
12:15:16  <planetmaker> Ammler: all newgrf developers whom I know using NML, use NML nightly
12:15:22  <planetmaker> Not a big problem so far :-)
12:15:34  <planetmaker> you'd do the same with grfcodec, too in order to get the new features
12:15:50  <Ammler> not really
12:15:59  <planetmaker> assuming we might have an NML 0.3 only in 12 months... then we could switch OpenGFX then, too
12:15:59  <Ammler> grfcodec I package just for openttd
12:16:20  <Rubidium> Ammler: that only says: if there is a release of 0.3.x, then don't build OpenGFX with that just yet. I doubt you need to maintain 0.2.x after 0.3.x for OpenGFX much beyond increasing some sprite amounts for action5
12:16:26  <Ammler> which I also already asked to remove ;-)
12:17:31  <planetmaker> nml-0.2.x-lts
12:17:33  <Rubidium> then you won't be rebuilding OpenTTD's GRF
12:17:35  <planetmaker> and nml-0.3.x
12:17:59  <Ammler> hmm, I guess I could manage to differ making nml for building and another version for publishing
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12:18:39  <Rubidium> what might be useful is calling nml 0.2 nmlc-0.2 and have a symlink from nmlc to it. Then use nmlc-0.2 in the makefile config. Then 0.2 and 0.3 should be co-installable
12:19:14  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 28:cf8ca9c3045a: Fix (r27): alignment of 5/8 vehicles using bottom-al... (foobar) @
12:19:20  <planetmaker> that might be a good idea
12:19:41  <Ammler> Rubidium: as said, such multiple things are not really worth for such a tool
12:20:04  <Ammler> it really should be considered to support v7 at least
12:21:55  <Ammler> Rubidium: the grfcodec issue could also be fixed by making openttd.grf a baseset like opengfx
12:22:06  <Ammler> that would be optimal
12:23:23  <Ammler> it would make more sense to add opengfx to openttd then openttd.grf ;-)
12:25:58  <planetmaker> anyone an idea where the letter "Ù" appears?
12:28:04  <frosch123> just put it in some sign?
12:28:10  <frosch123> rename a town?
12:30:21  <planetmaker> hm... to easy. Yes :-)
12:31:05  <frosch123> and yes, that letter does not work for the big font
12:31:30  <frosch123> (rename a town, and fund an industry next to it; then open the news)
12:33:33  <planetmaker> :-) First I have to get that letter into the game at all. I can't type it :-)
12:33:43  <planetmaker> good that copy & paste works. Hopefully
12:35:03  <planetmaker> yes, works :-)
12:38:00  <frosch123> you should configure capslock as compose key
12:38:18  <frosch123> then you can type most strange characters
12:40:24  <planetmaker> :-)
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12:59:07  <planetmaker> hm... the U+00D9 Ù is probably an OpenTTD issue... both TTD and OpenGFX don't show it. And it's part of the base sprites (#635)
12:59:08  <Brot6> planetmaker: #635 is "#openttdcoop Development Zone"
13:10:08  <Ammler> Yexo: seems like nml does not install the manpage
13:10:30  <frosch123> planetmaker: agreed, it does not work with the original baseset either :p
13:11:19  <planetmaker> Got to leave for a bit. I'll have another look later. But if anyone has an idea... FS4870
13:12:10  <frosch123> i guess the glyph is just missing for the big sprite font
13:12:41  <planetmaker> you know by heart where that's defined?
13:13:50  <frosch123> either via action12, or in the first x sprites :p
13:14:27  <Rubidium> src/table/unicode.h might give a clue
13:14:43  <Rubidium> lots of characters are 'removed' from the big font
13:15:00  <frosch123> since when do i have to login to the devzone to view a task?
13:15:21  <planetmaker> we don't?
13:15:50  <frosch123> never mind, i tried task #635 :p
13:15:51  <Brot6> frosch123: #635 is "#openttdcoop Development Zone"
13:16:29  <planetmaker> :-P. That's server internals ;-)
13:16:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: sometimes means # is short for number or whatever :-P
13:17:40  <frosch123> looks like Rubidium got a cookie
13:20:41  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3314: Ù (capital U with grave) appearing wrong (frosch) @
14:18:23  <frosch123> orudge: is unreachable via ipv4
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14:39:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2636:f505cd285435: Change: make Iron Works produce a lit... (andythenorth) @
14:40:39  <orudge> frosch123: hmm, it has an old IP address
14:42:59  <orudge> frosch123: should be back now
14:50:18  <frosch123> orudge: ping works now, but svn does not
14:54:42  <orudge> ah, well
14:54:47  <orudge> you probably still have the old IP cached
14:55:28  <orudge> it's now
14:58:04  <frosch123> \o/ thanks
15:29:20  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 29:7515061108e6: Change: crop and encode to DOS format NewGRF by default (foobar) @
15:29:20  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 30:a0beac54e32c: Feature #3310: colour translation sprites for all tr... (foobar) @
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15:56:41  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 31:e38562dd0ce7: Feature #3310: old style boxcar (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
16:03:55  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Bug #3263: SLT Missalignment (foobar) @
16:08:33  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3316 (New): Figure out cargo classes and exceptions for different typ... (foobar) @
16:08:59  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Bug #3263: SLT Missalignment (foobar) @
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16:10:06  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 32:0fe7efd46d5f: Feature #3310: old style tanker (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
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16:27:03  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 33:3079f9eecab0: Fix (r27): consistent naming of blocks (foobar) @
16:27:03  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 34:19824215c8e3: Feature #3310: old style medium open wagon (graphics... (foobar) @
16:27:03  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 35:9be02f1d2ca2: Feature #3310: old style small open wagon (graphics ... (foobar) @
16:39:10  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 36:fe2d3c0be509: Feature #3310: old style stake wagon (graphics by Vo... (foobar) @
16:39:10  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3310 (Closed): Very old wagons (foobar) @
17:23:28  <Brot6> Japanese Trains - Revision 36:dec7acc91e17: First generation boxcars (WA) can carry grain and cer... (dandan) @
17:23:28  <Brot6> Japanese Trains - Revision 37:e4d5a3b7afbf: Adapt cargo sprite selection to new CTT. Prepare chan... (dandan) @
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18:51:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature #3317 (New): Parameter to choose foundations (planetmaker) @
19:03:43  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r23431 still failed (#2964) -
19:06:08  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r23431 still failed (#2966) -
19:08:02  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r23431 still failed (#2446) -
20:57:00  <V453000> hello, I might have a really stupid question but I cannot figure it out ... how do I set a vehicle name in NML? When I have name: string(STR_NAME_RS3); where do I set the string content?
21:03:11  <Ammler> V453000: in the language file?
21:03:23  <V453000> oh :)
21:03:23  <V453000> thanks
21:12:38  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 37:f73921a15984: Feature: tarpaulin for old style hopper for cargo th... (foobar) @
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23:22:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2987: glitch with food processor (oberhuemer) @
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