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02:28:13 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 03:23:20 *** Lakie has quit IRC 08:57:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:26:05 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:35:05 * andythenorth thinks #3035 should be rejected... 09:35:11 <Brot6> andythenorth: #3035 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3035 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 09:36:15 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3035#change-8976 09:54:38 *** Mark has quit IRC 10:11:48 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:51:06 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 82:5de5ab5a48d6: Feature: guardrails for median inside corners (i... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/5de5ab5a48d6 10:56:55 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (New): left hand drive support (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3433 11:03:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: FIRS release? :D 11:09:56 <planetmaker> yes. Shall we go through the single cargos to consider adding / removing a class? 11:10:10 <andythenorth> yes 11:10:14 <planetmaker> if we do it (and we do already as with scrp), we can do it throughly 11:10:27 <andythenorth> #3235 11:10:27 <Brot6> andythenorth: #3235 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3235 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 11:10:45 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it would be helpful if we could see what current classes actually are set to 11:10:48 <andythenorth> per cargo 11:11:02 <andythenorth> but maybe we just read the code for that :P 11:15:00 <planetmaker> probably 11:15:49 <planetmaker> passenger: leave 11:16:00 <planetmaker> coal: also as-is 11:16:06 <planetmaker> mail: as-is 11:16:14 <planetmaker> oil: as-is 11:17:21 <planetmaker> livestock: as-is 11:17:38 *** [1]Mark has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:17:39 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 11:18:48 <planetmaker> goods: as-is. But only on grounds that it uses a default label 11:19:02 <andythenorth> we could change that 11:19:05 <planetmaker> alternative: new label PIEC with piece goods class 11:19:16 <planetmaker> maybe 'express', too 11:19:19 <andythenorth> I'd be prepared to adjust 'Goods' to something else 11:20:11 <andythenorth> Consumer Goods? 11:20:12 <andythenorth> meh 11:20:24 <planetmaker> good 11:20:26 <planetmaker> CGOD 11:20:36 <planetmaker> that gives it a good name 11:20:48 <planetmaker> consumables 11:20:58 <planetmaker> CONG 11:21:12 <planetmaker> let's skip that for now and go on. Details later 11:21:28 <planetmaker> I made a note here on that :-) 11:22:05 <planetmaker> grain: as-is. or add 'covered'? 11:22:23 <andythenorth> it uses a default label? 11:22:27 <planetmaker> yes 11:22:29 <Terkhen> what are you planning? 11:22:30 <andythenorth> leave 11:23:34 *** leroot has quit IRC 11:23:37 <planetmaker> Terkhen: re-visit cargos. Checking for class sanity. And making new labels, when needed 11:23:44 <planetmaker> good. we leave GRAI 11:24:02 <planetmaker> please join in, Terkhen. Open FIRS sprites/nml/cargo_props.pnml :-) 11:24:38 <planetmaker> we want to release 0.7.0 and... as there's anyway SCMT as new label we thought to look through the rest, too 11:24:47 <planetmaker> to avoid the new-cargo-for-every-release stuff 11:25:09 <andythenorth> Terkhen: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/issues?fixed_version_id=187&set_filter=1&status_id=o 11:25:15 <planetmaker> anyway: WOOD: leave as piece? 11:25:29 <andythenorth> yes 11:25:33 <andythenorth> countable 11:25:41 <planetmaker> IORE: as-is bulk 11:25:44 <andythenorth> also - default cargo 11:25:54 <andythenorth> if I don't reply, I agree :) 11:26:25 <planetmaker> STEL: as-is piece 11:28:15 <Terkhen> hmm... so you are going to change most cargos again? 11:28:26 <Terkhen> I still don't understand why you need to do that 11:28:40 <planetmaker> FOOD: default, but bad. I'd suggest to use FOO2 and add piece. But later 11:28:56 <Terkhen> I know that the default scheme is faulty, but IMO it is not worth making everyone change their vehicle sets 11:29:05 <planetmaker> Terkhen: no. But going through to see where quirks are 11:29:39 <planetmaker> and when we know the quirks with the existing FIRS cargos. then we can think whether this is worth to change 11:29:52 <planetmaker> so far GOOD and FOOD. But it's default... 11:30:19 <planetmaker> mostly it's considering the FIRS-specific cargos 11:30:30 <planetmaker> to ensure that vehicle sets can really refit them in a sane way 11:30:33 *** sup has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:30:39 <andythenorth> mostly it proposes to remove classes 11:30:51 <andythenorth> or change classes 11:30:54 <Terkhen> what I mean is; we managed to get every cargo in ogfx+ in ways that make sense, why change it? 11:31:03 <planetmaker> alcohol BEER: exists. leave as-is: express, piece, liquid 11:31:17 <andythenorth> I want to remove liquid 11:31:27 <andythenorth> eddi made a good case that it's piece 11:31:36 <planetmaker> it's an existing cargo 11:31:36 <andythenorth> and it's a proven source of conflicts 11:31:50 <andythenorth> label change? WINE 11:31:52 <planetmaker> and used by vehicles in a sane way it doesn't conflict 11:32:01 <planetmaker> i.e. no exclude base class 11:32:51 <planetmaker> base classes piece + liquid must never be used as "AND NOT". Thus no conflict 11:32:57 <andythenorth> does it gain from liquid though? 11:33:08 <planetmaker> it looses by a label change 11:33:14 <planetmaker> it's an established one 11:33:15 <andythenorth> true 11:33:47 <planetmaker> milk: MILK: as-is. express, liquid, refrigerated 11:33:56 <planetmaker> could add 'piece', but not worth it 11:34:12 <planetmaker> milk goes to dairy anyway and that's bulk liquid, not tetrapak 11:34:12 <andythenorth> fewer = better 11:34:29 <andythenorth> can we leave a note on BEER? 11:34:46 <andythenorth> it's the same case as MILK, inverted 11:34:46 <planetmaker> I don't think it's worth any further thought. 11:35:08 <andythenorth> hmm 11:35:30 <planetmaker> unless you insist on giving it a new label 11:36:29 <andythenorth> you're convinced it's fine as is? If so...leave it 11:36:42 <planetmaker> I'm fine with it. liquid class doesn't hurt there 11:36:51 <andythenorth> it hurts eGRVTS :D 11:36:55 <andythenorth> but that's not the point 11:37:54 <planetmaker> fruits (FRVG): piece, express, refrigerated: leave as-is 11:38:22 <planetmaker> fish (FISH): express, refrigerated: it's missing either bulk or piece 11:38:37 <planetmaker> or both 11:39:47 <planetmaker> wool: piece + covered. It's ok, I guess. 11:39:58 <andythenorth> I don't think it justifies covered 11:40:03 <andythenorth> covered irritates me 11:40:55 <planetmaker> it fits somewhat. And it's not our own cargo 11:41:00 <andythenorth> it was 11:41:06 <andythenorth> covered is fine 11:41:12 <andythenorth> I just don't want to encourage it :P 11:41:43 <planetmaker> I can agree to that 11:42:12 <planetmaker> recycables: RCYC: piece + covered?. Wth why covered? 11:42:17 <andythenorth> no idea 11:42:29 <planetmaker> I suggest a change 11:42:48 <planetmaker> to bulk actually 11:43:05 <andythenorth> uncountable? 11:43:24 <andythenorth> what about bales :D http://www.flickr.com/photos/mwparenteau/432040453/ 11:43:25 <Webster> Title: Bales of Recyclables | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (at www.flickr.com) 11:43:57 <planetmaker> depends, I guess. 11:44:13 <andythenorth> bulk + piece is acceptable, but is it needed? 11:44:52 <planetmaker> 'needed' is strong. I never thought of recycling crap as piece goods 11:45:15 <andythenorth> can you count it :D 11:46:03 <planetmaker> http://www.merkur-online.de/nachrichten/wirtschaft-finanzen/gelber-sack-bleibt-bestehen-601203.html <-- bulk or piece? 11:46:04 <Webster> Title: Abfall-Entsorgung: Die Finanzierung für den Gelben Sack und die Gelbe Tonne ist vorerst gesichert - Wirtschaft - Aktuelles - merkur-online (at www.merkur-online.de) 11:46:08 <planetmaker> yes, you can count it... somewhat 11:46:40 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3434 (New): NS100 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3434 11:46:41 <andythenorth> what gets it the widest appropriate cargo support? 11:46:54 <planetmaker> http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Nnd&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&biw=1275&bih=608&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=TIJqbwwdAfEqAM:&imgrefurl=http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/guenzburg/Gelber-Sack-und-Blaue-Tonne-id5980721.html&docid=lADxRH85goeZ-M&imgurl=http://bilder.augsburger-allgemeine.de/img/5980716-1295059533000/topTeaser_crop_Gelber-Sack-und-Blaue-Tonne.jpg&w=572&h=322&ei=Efb-Tqv0 11:46:54 <planetmaker> C8TMswbxovToBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=374&sig=112808907404654908903&page=8&tbnh=87&tbnw=155&start=156&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:156&tx=68&ty=26 <-- piece? ;-) 11:46:55 <Webster> Title: Redirect Notice (at www.google.com) 11:46:58 <planetmaker> ups 11:46:59 <andythenorth> bulk + non-pourable; + piece? 11:47:21 <planetmaker> widest? just bulk + piece 11:47:47 <planetmaker> our trash vans just pour it on the junkyard or into the sorting plants 11:48:26 <andythenorth> so it can travel by dump truck (pourable) 11:48:35 <andythenorth> but can it travel by hopper car (pourable)? 11:48:45 <planetmaker> dunno 11:49:01 <andythenorth> hmm 11:49:03 <andythenorth> :) 11:49:16 <andythenorth> some of the 'extended' classes don't entirely help imho 11:49:45 <andythenorth> we're agreed to remove covered from that one? 11:49:59 <planetmaker> I'd say 'yes' 11:50:09 <andythenorth> k 11:50:15 <andythenorth> are you keeping notes? :) 11:50:30 <planetmaker> yes 11:50:42 <planetmaker> so we only remove 'covered' and not add 'bulk'? 11:50:57 <andythenorth> I'm happy with that 11:51:01 <planetmaker> ok 11:51:06 <andythenorth> or (slightly) happy with adding bulk 11:51:17 <andythenorth> or also happy with adding bulk + not pourable :P 11:51:32 <andythenorth> classes :P 11:51:42 <andythenorth> did you discuss MNSP? 11:51:54 <planetmaker> plant fibres FICR: bulk, piece. Add not-pourable? 11:52:00 <planetmaker> but we can't, I fear 11:52:13 <andythenorth> see #1963 11:52:13 <Brot6> andythenorth: #1963 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1963 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1963: Consider Fibre Crops cargo classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 11:52:17 <andythenorth> FICR is all wrong imho 11:53:55 <planetmaker> bulk + piece is somewhat ok 11:54:12 <planetmaker> I can live with it, though I'm not too happy with bulk 11:54:19 <andythenorth> I'm not happy with bulk 11:54:51 <andythenorth> it's annoying to vehicle set authors if we provide cargos which (most) sets have to provide special excludes for 11:55:02 <andythenorth> wrong classes imposes work on authors :( 11:55:14 <andythenorth> bulk especially 11:55:57 <andythenorth> cotton doesn't travel by coal hopper, nor flax, nor hemp 11:56:20 <andythenorth> it's definitely countable irl + gains nothing from bulk 11:59:29 <planetmaker> well. ok 11:59:44 <planetmaker> gravel GRVL: bulk. as-is 12:00:05 <planetmaker> building material BDMT: piece, covered. why covered? 12:00:13 <planetmaker> bricks do not care for water 12:00:45 <andythenorth> cement I guess 12:00:52 <andythenorth> an attempt to get it into covered hoppers? 12:00:54 <planetmaker> yes, but then it must not be there 12:01:05 <planetmaker> bdmt is not (only) cement. 12:01:08 <andythenorth> no 12:01:12 <planetmaker> thus it must be generic 12:01:12 <andythenorth> it's much other stuff 12:01:25 <andythenorth> do you want to reject the request for 'powdered' also? 12:01:44 <planetmaker> yes 12:01:51 <andythenorth> my case is that they shouldn't be relying on classes for that 12:01:51 <planetmaker> it's not cement 12:02:02 <andythenorth> relying on classes for known cargos is *doing it wrong* 12:02:19 <andythenorth> they should set exclude / includes explicitly 12:02:26 <andythenorth> MB made the case for TTDP support 12:02:33 <planetmaker> I don't care 12:02:37 <andythenorth> but that might be a white elephant 12:02:37 <planetmaker> FIRS is not for TTDP 12:02:41 <andythenorth> exactly 12:02:57 <andythenorth> although these classes may be reused by other industry sets which do support TTDP 12:03:09 <andythenorth> I am sure there exist many 12:03:17 <planetmaker> hardly. There's no (new) such industry set. Not even ECS 12:03:54 <planetmaker> George dropped support. And I already found reports that it stopped working with ttdp 12:04:10 <planetmaker> gender support killed it ;-) 12:04:32 <planetmaker> sand SAND: bulk. keep as-is 12:04:41 <planetmaker> clay CLAY: bulk. keep as-is 12:05:01 <planetmaker> lumber WDPR: bulk, piece. keep as-is 12:05:10 <andythenorth> does clay have covered set? 12:05:11 <planetmaker> bauxite AORE: bulk. as-is 12:05:14 <planetmaker> no 12:05:21 <andythenorth> good 12:05:25 <andythenorth> my spec thought it did :P 12:05:40 <planetmaker> scrap metal SCMT: bulk, neo-bulk. as-is 12:05:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: grr 12:05:51 <andythenorth> wiki is out of spec (again) 12:05:55 <planetmaker> sugar cane SGCN: piece goods, bulk 12:06:01 <andythenorth> I hate the classes being in the wiki 12:06:04 <planetmaker> as-is 12:06:22 <planetmaker> I'd not add neo-bulk 12:06:44 <planetmaker> sugar beet SGBT: bulk. as-is 12:06:50 <andythenorth> I'd remove piece from SGCN 12:06:54 <andythenorth> and set neo-bulk 12:07:12 <andythenorth> again - the problem of bulk = coal hopper in train sets applies :( 12:07:22 <planetmaker> noted. 12:07:32 <andythenorth> I'm also convinced by your case that sgcn is not countable 12:07:34 <planetmaker> fuel oil: PETR. liquid. as-is 12:07:55 <planetmaker> chemicals RFPR: liquid. as-is 12:08:10 <andythenorth> back to WDPR for 1 min... 12:08:12 <planetmaker> MNSP: express, piece. as-is 12:08:25 <planetmaker> yes? 12:08:28 <andythenorth> what's the case for bulk? 12:08:33 <planetmaker> wood chips 12:08:34 <andythenorth> other than we tried to reuse an ECS label 12:08:51 <planetmaker> wood pellets 12:08:59 <planetmaker> etc 12:09:11 <andythenorth> we should change the name string of the cargo :| 12:09:17 <planetmaker> to? 12:09:22 <andythenorth> dunno 12:09:34 <andythenorth> the meanings of 'lumber', 'wood' etc vary by continent anyway 12:09:49 <andythenorth> I see nothing in FIRS that supports Lumber being wood pellets 12:09:50 <planetmaker> doesn't matter. Gives room for interpretation :-) 12:10:24 <andythenorth> hmm 12:10:26 <andythenorth> leave it? 12:10:29 <planetmaker> yes 12:10:37 <andythenorth> I've been wanting to change it since starting FIRS :P 12:10:44 <planetmaker> it's a good label 12:10:53 <planetmaker> and classes are fine imho, too 12:10:54 <andythenorth> coal hopper argument applies here too 12:11:00 <planetmaker> not to wood pellets 12:11:07 <planetmaker> or wood chips. --> Argument gone wrong 12:11:14 <planetmaker> still you always bring it up ;-) 12:11:25 <planetmaker> still I always tell it's wrong :-P 12:11:35 <andythenorth> k 12:11:37 <andythenorth> leave it 12:11:50 <andythenorth> MNSP doesn't justify express 12:11:57 <andythenorth> it could stay, but there's no reason for it 12:12:24 <planetmaker> agreed on both accounts. Thus leave it ;-) 12:12:29 <planetmaker> ENSP: express, piece. leave as. For same reasons 12:12:42 <andythenorth> means it can travel by air :) 12:12:44 <planetmaker> FMSP: express, piece. leave as-is for same reasons 12:12:56 <planetmaker> we could add 'bulk' though 12:13:16 <andythenorth> I'd leave 12:13:34 <planetmaker> we're done 12:13:45 <andythenorth> hmm 12:13:53 <andythenorth> good 12:14:06 <andythenorth> so how do your notes compare to my last note in #3235? 12:14:06 <Brot6> andythenorth: #3235 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3235 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 12:14:07 <andythenorth> :) 12:14:19 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/879/ 12:15:17 <andythenorth> introducing a new goods cargo - controversial :D 12:15:23 <andythenorth> makes me very tempted to do it.... 12:17:03 <andythenorth> food should really gain piece goods 12:17:16 <andythenorth> but is it worth it? 12:20:30 <planetmaker> I don't think it's worth it. 12:20:34 <andythenorth> me neither 12:20:44 <planetmaker> concerning food and goods: that would require some more general debate 12:21:16 <planetmaker> so. beer: I argued also to keep it. Less changes needed anywhere 12:21:25 <planetmaker> and specific cargo support is already there in that case 12:21:45 <planetmaker> fish would be the same argument. as fibre crops 12:21:57 <andythenorth> beer - it means vehicle set authors have to set a specific exclude 12:22:05 <planetmaker> unspecific cargo support in both cases may be a bit weired. But alas 12:22:18 <planetmaker> why do they have to set an exclude? 12:22:26 <andythenorth> to exclude alcohol from tankers? 12:22:29 <planetmaker> I don't mind to ship beer in supertankers 12:22:32 <andythenorth> ok 12:22:34 <andythenorth> leave it 12:22:38 <planetmaker> it's a base food ;-) 12:23:01 <andythenorth> I am just working down your shortlist 12:23:10 <andythenorth> fish - why add piece or bulk? 12:23:19 <planetmaker> to add a base class 12:23:27 <planetmaker> it has none so far 12:23:30 <andythenorth> piece 12:23:37 <planetmaker> probably 12:23:43 <planetmaker> but again, it's not our label 12:23:44 <andythenorth> fish are uncountable when caught, but countable when transported 12:23:49 <planetmaker> thus: new label or 'leave it' 12:24:10 <andythenorth> Seafood in 4 letters? 12:24:20 <planetmaker> SFOD 12:24:25 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3435 (New): Superheavy Flatcar (futuristic) (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3435 12:24:27 <planetmaker> or SEAF 12:24:52 <planetmaker> I could go with that. 12:25:11 <andythenorth> we should do a new label 12:25:17 <andythenorth> FISH is not compliant with 'YACS' 12:25:36 <andythenorth> piece goods should be set when refrigerated is used 12:25:41 <planetmaker> SEAF with piece, refrigerated and express 12:25:48 <andythenorth> +1 12:25:52 <planetmaker> k 12:25:57 <Rubidium> but... 12:26:01 <planetmaker> but? 12:26:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:26:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:26:18 <andythenorth> sorry 12:26:21 <andythenorth> disconnectified :P 12:26:22 <Rubidium> sardines are pretty bulky unrefridgerated and not-expressy 12:26:37 <planetmaker> it's boxed in cans, Rubidium ;-) 12:27:05 <andythenorth> bulk and bulk :P 12:27:13 * andythenorth can count sardines 12:27:15 <andythenorth> for values <n 12:27:21 <planetmaker> n=2 12:27:37 <Rubidium> but you can count grains of rice as well 12:27:37 <andythenorth> are there other cargos that are not YACS compliant? 12:27:42 <planetmaker> :-) 12:27:54 <andythenorth> is 'some' a valid number? 12:27:55 <Rubidium> hell... they even count fish eggs 12:27:56 <planetmaker> YACS? yet another cargo ...? 12:27:59 <andythenorth> schema 12:28:04 <Ammler> oh wow, now I got the server issue with paste service 12:28:08 <andythenorth> it was a joke originally, but I think YACS is valid 12:28:19 <andythenorth> ECS is confusing as it also refers to the set 12:28:31 <Ammler> cleanup the domain cookies and it works again, that should be fixeable 12:28:36 <andythenorth> and ECS cargos aren't compliant with YACS principles 12:28:40 <planetmaker> ok. But honest question, Rubidium: do you think such cargo would benefit from 'bulk'? 12:29:22 <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Cargo_label_.2817.29 12:29:26 <Rubidium> I have no clue ;) 12:29:45 <Rubidium> it's just that every few weeks someone "designs" a new almost equal cargo with slightly different flags 12:29:54 <Rubidium> which would almost make the flags pointless 12:30:40 <andythenorth> and ever more detailed classes are added :( 12:30:46 <andythenorth> but we had that debate already :) 12:31:07 <planetmaker> yes, the cargo inflation is the ... bad thing 12:31:38 <Rubidium> yeah, and nobody seems to like my proposed cargo ;) 12:31:47 <planetmaker> what was it? 12:31:53 <planetmaker> 'stuff'? ;-) 12:31:54 <Rubidium> "STUF" 12:31:58 <planetmaker> :-) 12:32:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:32:00 <Rubidium> or "STFF" 12:32:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:32:17 <Rubidium> or... typoed: "STFU" ;) 12:32:27 <planetmaker> hehe 12:32:58 <andythenorth> I would use it - if I was allowed :P 12:33:08 <andythenorth> it would encourage vehicle authors to maintain their sets 12:33:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: recyclables. thinking of it, 'covered' might not be as completely off as one thinks. Thus for the sake of simplicity: keep 12:33:25 <planetmaker> and don't change that cargo 12:33:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:33:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:33:41 <andythenorth> FFS 12:33:46 <andythenorth> this wifi is ridiculously bad 12:33:50 <planetmaker> 13:33 planetmaker: andythenorth: recyclables. thinking of it, 'covered' might not be as completely off as one thinks. Thus for the sake of simplicity: keep 12:33:50 <planetmaker> 13:33 planetmaker: and don't change that cargo 12:33:57 <andythenorth> I am sat 10 feet from the route :/ 12:34:05 <andythenorth> +r 12:34:23 <planetmaker> FICR: also just keep. It's not our. And not sure a new is worth it. FICR has specific support 12:34:40 <andythenorth> what specific support though? Is it useful? :) 12:34:44 <planetmaker> yes 12:34:49 <planetmaker> cargo graphics in vehicle sets 12:34:56 <planetmaker> it looks just much nicer then 12:34:58 <andythenorth> do we know what they are? 12:35:09 <planetmaker> how do you mean? 12:35:18 <planetmaker> I know what support I added ;-) 12:35:30 <planetmaker> But other train and vehicle sets support it, too 12:35:37 <planetmaker> thus: keep 12:35:39 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest22291 12:35:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:35:43 <andythenorth> I give up :( 12:35:43 *** Guest22291 has quit IRC 12:36:03 <planetmaker> building materials: remove covered and we're fine imho 12:36:17 <planetmaker> though if we change it, we can add cement, too 12:36:20 <planetmaker> err... bulk 12:36:27 * andythenorth gives up wifi, not cargos :P 12:36:30 * andythenorth makes some tea 12:37:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wrt recyclables - should they be able to travel by open / flat vehicle? 12:37:15 <planetmaker> open: not wrong. Flat: not sure 12:37:25 <andythenorth> that's the problem with covered 12:37:28 <planetmaker> but maybe I'm wrong 12:37:32 <andythenorth> it only works as an exclude class 12:37:39 <planetmaker> yes. I hate that 12:37:39 <andythenorth> authors have to exclude it on all non-vans 12:37:45 <andythenorth> it's pointless 12:37:55 <andythenorth> also we proved that any vehicle can be covered with a tarpaulin 12:38:04 <andythenorth> so generally I want to not use that class, it's 100% dumb 12:38:24 <andythenorth> I don't want to support stupidity just to avoid annoying a few people 12:38:46 <planetmaker> but it's there 12:39:00 <andythenorth> we can change it :) That's what classes are for.... 12:39:05 <planetmaker> still. We can remove that without much pain, I guess 12:39:20 <andythenorth> anyone relying on classes for specific refits is...doing it wrong 12:39:30 <andythenorth> classes come with 0% warranty 12:40:09 <planetmaker> ok 12:40:20 <planetmaker> wood products. we covered that and decided to 'keep', right? 12:40:30 <andythenorth> yup 12:40:34 <andythenorth> I'm sold on wood chips :P 12:40:49 <planetmaker> :-P 12:40:50 <Rubidium> oh, that's the solution for the invisible leading engine: put tarpaulin over it ;) 12:40:54 <andythenorth> maybe we add biomass power plant? 12:41:07 <andythenorth> :P 12:41:16 <planetmaker> not bad. Anyway. sugar cane. change to bulk + neo-bulk? 12:41:41 <Rubidium> but the existing one is a biomass power plant 12:41:51 <planetmaker> neo-bulk = not pourable 12:42:07 <andythenorth> yup change sgcn that way 12:42:12 <planetmaker> ok 12:42:31 <andythenorth> FICR is a big 'meh' for me 12:42:42 <andythenorth> but if you want to leave it I won't mind 12:42:49 <planetmaker> don't worry, I think. It's ok. It's established 12:43:05 <planetmaker> It's only for sets which don't specifically support it. And they'll still transport it 12:43:05 <andythenorth> PLFB was nicer 12:43:25 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/880/ 12:43:31 <andythenorth> what happened to frosch's label-translation idea? 12:43:37 <planetmaker> nothing 12:44:15 <andythenorth> heh 12:45:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: recyclables - remove covered 12:45:24 <planetmaker> oh, did we? :-P Well, ok 12:45:24 <andythenorth> and goods is worth discussion 12:45:37 <andythenorth> the current situation of "goods is not goods" is dumb 12:45:44 <andythenorth> and surely confusing to newgrf authors? 12:46:25 <planetmaker> cargos mostly have been confusing with the xor 12:46:30 <planetmaker> xor is a non-intuitive concept 12:46:40 <planetmaker> otherwise it's... easy 12:46:54 <andythenorth> ok 12:47:05 <andythenorth> shrug :P 12:47:16 <andythenorth> might lose wifi again in a minute, I have to move rooms :/ 12:56:50 <planetmaker> so, you really think we should also change RCYC? Hm... I'm still a bit unsure ;-) 12:57:20 <andythenorth> I don't think the covered class is valid 12:57:53 <andythenorth> but spec says it is 12:57:54 <andythenorth> so meh 12:58:19 <andythenorth> the primary question should be "what gets the widest range of support" 12:58:43 * planetmaker updates firs repo 12:59:15 <planetmaker> doesn't matter, I think 12:59:44 <andythenorth> leave it if you want 13:06:16 <michi_cc> If you change GOODs, you loose all house acceptance. 13:07:32 <planetmaker> true :-( 13:07:39 <planetmaker> same with FOOD 13:08:54 <andythenorth> leave those too 13:09:00 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins :P 13:09:07 <andythenorth> it does no harm in gameplay 13:09:08 <planetmaker> bah. I'm having 2nd thoughts on FISH, too. 13:09:25 <planetmaker> there's also lots of support for that :S 13:09:40 <andythenorth> fails the spec 13:09:52 <andythenorth> either this YACS spec is a spec, or we should bin it as unworkable 13:10:01 <andythenorth> either is fine by me 13:10:12 <andythenorth> I would be as happy to have 4 or 5 base classes and no extended classes 13:10:46 <andythenorth> what we have right now are two people with lots of experience of newgrf *still* trying to figure out how to do the right thing :P 13:10:51 <andythenorth> seems broken to me :) 13:11:39 <andythenorth> as far as I am concerned, classes should exist only to provide support for legacy / unmaintained newgrfs 13:11:52 <andythenorth> which means *existing*, known newgrfs 13:12:08 <andythenorth> with all their quirks :P 13:12:31 <planetmaker> nah. classes are there to put a cargo approx in a fitting vehicle 13:12:43 <andythenorth> however we can also continue trying to do this forward looking thing, where instead we try to support unknown future vehicle sets :P 13:12:48 <planetmaker> what else is their value? 13:12:56 <andythenorth> legacy support 13:13:03 <planetmaker> what kind of legacy? 13:13:16 <andythenorth> "To make vehicle sets more compatible with future new cargo definitions, these two properties allow vehicles to define what type of cargo they should be refittable to" 13:13:37 <andythenorth> spec says nothing about allowing lazy authors a quick way to set refits 13:13:39 <planetmaker> well, yes. Additional to what classes allow 13:14:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm happy to not change FISH, but we should update the newgrf wiki 13:14:21 <andythenorth> which means the spec Eddi created fails 13:14:27 <planetmaker> it's refit: (classes and not classes xor labels) + (explicitly allowed) - (explicitly disallowed) 13:14:45 <andythenorth> I suggest that Eddi's spec fails also on Goods 13:15:14 <andythenorth> and Food 13:21:54 <michi_cc> Eddi's scheme had some additions to the existing cargo labels. 13:23:21 <andythenorth> are they viable? 13:23:35 <andythenorth> without a label->label mapping scheme? 13:26:55 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3415 (Rejected): Consider 'powder' class for BDMT (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3415#change-8979 13:27:55 <Ammler> planetmaker: it is very hard to find opengfx update if you do not announce them 13:28:12 <planetmaker> eh? 13:28:40 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx <-- last release is 0.3.7 13:28:42 <Rubidium> yeah, only 760 people found the update the last 24 hours ;) 13:29:04 <Ammler> Rubidium: I meant for pacakge maintainer 13:29:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: could you update it? (And grfcodec) ;) 13:29:11 <Ammler> which use the upstream url 13:29:23 <Rubidium> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=matthijs%40stdin.nl&set=yes&bugs=1&version=1&ubuntu=1&excuses=0&bin=0&buildd=0&problems=1&popc=1&watch=1§ion=0&ordering=0&uploads=1&packages=&uploader=&mirror=http%3A%2F%2Fftp.debian.org%2Fdebian <- works quite well ;) 13:29:24 <Webster> Title: Debian Developer's Packages Overview -- Debian Quality Assurance (at qa.debian.org) 13:29:47 <Rubidium> just that the "watch" is updated once every few days 13:30:08 <Ammler> 0.4.0 there too 13:30:17 <Ammler> so also outdated 13:30:28 <Rubidium> Ammler: what did I say? 13:30:44 <Ammler> well, you said, it works, 13:31:23 <Rubidium> yes, ... and... that they update the state only once every few days 13:31:33 <Ammler> :-) 13:31:35 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3235#change-8980 13:31:44 <Rubidium> given 0.4.1 wasn't released more than a week ago, I'd say the 'few days' haven't passed yet 13:31:51 <Ammler> anyway, better as suse, which has still 0.3.7 13:33:15 <Ammler> oh, needs nml update too 13:34:25 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3235#change-8981 13:44:23 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3436 (New): new minor rpm lint issues (admin) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3436 13:44:57 <Ammler> oh 13:44:59 <Ammler> mäh 13:46:05 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3436 (New): new minor rpm lint issues (admin) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3436 13:46:16 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #3407 (Closed): change palette to DOS (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3407#change-8914 13:55:13 <andythenorth> planetmaker: BDMT - I see there could be a case for bulk...? 13:55:23 <andythenorth> do you want to add it? 13:56:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: 42 new packages needed for gimp :-) 13:57:29 <planetmaker> hehe, Ammler ;-) 13:57:34 <Ammler> previous we needed 140 pacakges to build opengfx, now 182 13:57:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: well. cement would be bulk 13:57:50 <andythenorth> indeed 13:57:53 <andythenorth> uncountable :P 13:57:54 <planetmaker> but can be argued piece, too 13:57:59 <planetmaker> as in bags of cement 13:58:29 <Ammler> hmm, does not build 13:58:48 <planetmaker> our CF did build it 13:59:02 <planetmaker> you'll also need nml 0.2.1 or so 13:59:19 <planetmaker> 0.2.0 won't do, most probably 13:59:21 <Ammler> touch sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_sw.gimp.png 13:59:36 * planetmaker touches it 13:59:39 <planetmaker> seems wet 13:59:56 <Ammler> why is that needed? 14:00:13 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix//trucks/tim_gibson/003.jpg 14:00:16 <andythenorth> http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix//trucks/tim_gibson/mar2003/rr_readymix.jpg 14:00:25 <andythenorth> although we don't set classes by google image search :) 14:00:27 <planetmaker> iirc it makes sure that the image is considered up2date 14:01:54 <Ammler> /bin/sh: line 1: 28339 Bus error gimp -n -i -b - < sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_se.gimp.scm > /dev/null 14:01:56 <Ammler> make[1]: *** [sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_se.gimp.png] Error 135 14:02:10 <planetmaker> bus error is gimp error 14:02:15 <Ammler> strange, it worked for a lot 14:02:27 <planetmaker> don't use -j255 ;-) 14:02:35 <Ammler> ah 14:02:36 <planetmaker> gimp is bad in being executed too much in parallel 14:02:48 <planetmaker> but it's not really something I can change 14:03:09 <Ammler> the question is, can't you force makefile to use -j1? 14:03:15 <planetmaker> gimp has a fixed file which it uses in /tmp and gets confused when it's running too much in parallel 14:04:36 <Ammler> else you need to very verbose communicate that 14:05:22 <Rubidium> pff... 14:06:08 <Ammler> :-) 14:06:55 <Ammler> also it is not that obvious that you need to run make maintainer-clean first 14:07:42 <Rubidium> lets see whether make -j255 really fails ;) 14:09:06 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1963 (Closed): Consider Fibre Crops cargo classes (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1963#change-8983 14:11:10 <Brot6> OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.4.1 released (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/news/62 14:11:12 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/ogfx.diff <- seems to help with -j255 14:11:18 <planetmaker> Ammler: you don't need to run make maintainer-clean first 14:11:43 <planetmaker> it's - after all - a clean level intended to be used by, yes, the maintainers 14:11:56 <planetmaker> If you want to re-exercise that as distro-maintainer, too: your issue 14:12:03 <Ammler> well, all I comment now is from that view 14:12:24 <planetmaker> maintainer-clean is there for a reason and it's not the default for a reason 14:12:37 <Ammler> Required file 'opengfx-0.4.1.check.md5' which to test against not found! 14:12:51 <Ammler> seems like that file got deleted by that target too 14:13:08 <andythenorth> ha ha 14:13:16 <andythenorth> -j255 DoSed my mac :D 14:13:38 <planetmaker> "The ‘maintainer-clean’ target is intended to be used by a maintainer of the package, not by ordinary users. You may need special tools to reconstruct some of the files that ‘make maintainer-clean’ deletes. Since these files are normally included in the distribution, we don't take care to make them easy to reconstruct. If you find you need to unpack the full distribution again, don't blame us. " 14:14:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: you do not want me to test the package maintainer procedure? 14:14:18 <planetmaker> sure I do :-) 14:15:24 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3436: new minor rpm lint issues (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3436#change-8984 14:15:24 <Ammler> Rubidium: that sounds more like a force to j1 14:15:49 <Rubidium> Ammler: planetmaker just told us that gimp can't run multiple instances 14:15:58 <Rubidium> so you shouldn't 14:16:00 <Ammler> yes 14:16:08 <planetmaker> that's an interesting define, Rubidium. I didn't yet see that anywhere. Thx for the hint 14:16:38 <Rubidium> sure... if goes right 99% of the times with -jN (where N is small), but... if it goes wrong you got another somewhat unreproducable 'bug' 14:16:38 <planetmaker> gimp *can* run multiple instances. But it *may* error out, if too many 14:16:41 <Ammler> that was why I wondered about your comment and then your soltuion :-P 14:16:52 <planetmaker> thus no threading at all is safer. But... meh... slow 14:17:20 <planetmaker> -j3 most often works. But it's indeed a known issue with gimp 14:17:24 <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to commit the FIRS diffs? Or I can... 14:17:27 <Ammler> maybe it is possible to run 2 make, one for gimp with -j1 and then the rest? 14:17:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: please go ahead. I will have to leave soonish 14:17:49 <planetmaker> for the rest of the year ;-) 14:17:50 <andythenorth> k 14:17:50 <Ammler> planetmaker: but is gimp really the only thing, which failed? 14:18:03 <planetmaker> I posted them there, andythenorth, as I'm not sure about the fish... as said 14:18:08 <planetmaker> the other two, I'm quite fine 14:18:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if we can resolve #3035, we're good to release 14:18:08 <Brot6> andythenorth: planetmaker: #3035 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3035 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:18:13 <Ammler> I can remember to change -j1 before you used gimp 14:18:20 <andythenorth> fish will have to wait 14:18:34 <andythenorth> changing it later doesn't actually break anything 14:19:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: anyway, -j1 worked until the check 14:19:38 <planetmaker> changing the weight... hum. 14:19:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I still think we should defer that to after a new supply mechanism 14:19:57 <Rubidium> Ammler: the problem is that then you start building 6 GRFs, which are all spawning 1 make -j1 for their pngs 14:20:14 <Rubidium> so you end up with 6 GIMPs running 14:20:23 <Ammler> Rubidium: if the pngs already exists, gimp won't be used anymore 14:20:43 <Rubidium> true 14:20:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I think changing the weight is mostly invalid 14:20:58 <Rubidium> but... you won't know that when running the make 14:21:00 <andythenorth> or at least doesn't achieve stated goal 14:21:17 <Ammler> but I think, there are other jobs, wich also had issues on parallel running 14:21:48 <planetmaker> probably true, andythenorth 14:22:03 <Rubidium> what I can imagine adding some guards around the .NOTPARALLEL so you can 'remove' that target, and run at 'full' speed (at your own risk) 14:22:13 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I want to reject that ticket 14:22:20 <andythenorth> vehicles carry units, not t 14:22:37 <andythenorth> so a small 4unit truck would be carrying 40t 14:22:40 <andythenorth> slowly... 14:22:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3437 (New): Consider new cargo label replacing FISH (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3437 14:22:56 <andythenorth> ok 14:23:03 <andythenorth> so I'll release tonight or tomorrow 14:23:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: you have a clue, what amount of jobs are too many for gimp? 14:23:39 <planetmaker> as said, Ammler: -j3 works usually for me 14:23:41 <Ammler> maybe beside .NOTPARALLEL, there is a max jobs 14:23:54 <planetmaker> but -j7 on our server fails often enough 14:24:20 <Ammler> usual build tools do not use -j at all, they calculate that from the cpu 14:24:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd first commit the two diffs then to firs default branch 14:24:40 <Ammler> on obs, they use simply the amount of cores 14:24:50 <andythenorth> oh we have to branch merge still :| 14:24:51 <andythenorth> forgot 14:24:53 <planetmaker> and then update to 0.7 branch and then merge the default branch into it 14:25:00 <Ammler> so 8 is it mostly 14:25:11 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3437 (New): Consider new cargo label replacing FISH (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3437 14:25:11 <andythenorth> hmm 14:25:14 <planetmaker> it's not a big deal actually 14:25:16 <andythenorth> the merge scares me :) 14:25:22 <planetmaker> so... should I commit the two diffs and merge 14:25:23 <planetmaker> ? 14:25:27 <andythenorth> please 14:25:33 <andythenorth> so we leave out the fish diff? 14:25:41 <andythenorth> I think 14:25:42 <Rubidium> Ammler: given it uses a single file more than one is not safe/too much for gimp 14:26:50 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2674:3f893c9f468d: Change: Remove the cargo class 'cover... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3f893c9f468d 14:26:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2675:77b1abd8e7fa: Change: Revise cargo classes for suga... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/77b1abd8e7fa 14:27:08 <planetmaker> drat. forgot issue reference 14:27:33 <andythenorth> I'll close them 14:27:36 <Ammler> anyway, more serious is the issue of the missing md5 check file 14:27:44 <Rubidium> it's like people running blindfolded to the other side of the room. With 1 there is no chance of a collision, with > 1 there is. The bigger the amount, the bigger the collision chance becomes 14:28:02 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035 (Rejected): Increase weight for supplies (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3035#change-8987 14:29:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235 (Closed): Thoughts on classes (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3235#change-8988 14:29:01 <Ammler> sorry, I didn't test 0.4.0 :-( 14:30:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #3218 (Closed): sugar cane cargo classes (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3218#change-8989 14:32:01 <Ammler> Rubidium: will you commit your fix or shall I add that to the bugreport I setup? 14:33:15 <Ammler> planetmaker: I post the bugs on opengfx, those should be ported to the framework too 14:34:06 <Rubidium> feel free to commit it 14:34:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Support #3438 (New): Update newgrf wiki cargo labels wrt FIRS cargos (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3438 14:38:40 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3439 (New): build does not work with -j > 1 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3439 14:40:20 <andythenorth> ho 14:40:27 <andythenorth> there are a lot of credits for FIRS 0.7.0 :) 14:40:37 <andythenorth> hope I don't forget anyone 14:40:59 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3440 (New): probably maintainer-clean removes md5 check file (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3440 14:42:25 <Ammler> andythenorth: that's the whole point about credits :-P 14:42:52 <planetmaker> Ammler: not sure #3440 is actually a bug 14:42:53 <Brot6> planetmaker: Ammler: #3440 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3440 "OpenGFX - Bug #3440: probably maintainer-clean removes md5 check file - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:43:00 <planetmaker> it's supposed to remove everything 14:43:02 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2676:a0e450fab7d9: Merge: Merge the current state of the... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a0e450fab7d9 14:43:08 <planetmaker> which can be re-generated 14:43:25 <Ammler> then it is useless 14:43:35 <Ammler> what other target could I use then? 14:44:02 <planetmaker> Do distros always use maintainer-clean? 14:44:14 <andythenorth> :{ORANGE}FIRS Industry Replacement Set{}{BLACK}By {SILVER}andythenorth{BLACK} and {SILVER}FooBar{BLACK}.{}{BLACK}'1,000 commits and counting...'{BLACK}{}{}Website: {SILVER}www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS{BLACK}.License: {SILVER}GPL v2{BLACK}.Special thanks to {SILVER}Ammler{BLACK}, {SILVER}Core Xii{BLACK}, {SILVER}Irwe{BLACK}, {SILVER}planetmaker{BLACK} and {SILVER}Zephyris{BLACK}.Uses parts of {SILVER}eGRVTS{BL 14:44:15 <andythenorth> {SILVER}ISR{BLACK} and {SILVER}OpenGFX{BLACK}. 14:44:17 <Ammler> that's the idea behind, isn't? 14:44:21 <planetmaker> but agreed, it's useless then 14:44:23 <andythenorth> ^^^ this is probably outdated :) 14:44:32 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the ones that care do, the ones that don't care don't 14:44:51 <Ammler> andythenorth: you can remove me to get some space free :-) 14:44:54 <andythenorth> FIRS is at minimum 'andythenorth, foobar and planetmaker' 14:45:00 <andythenorth> (in alphabetical order) 14:45:09 <andythenorth> possibly also 'terkhen, yexo' 14:45:10 <planetmaker> what about yexo and terkhen? 14:45:23 <andythenorth> ^^ 14:45:25 <andythenorth> :) 14:45:26 <planetmaker> :-) 14:45:35 <Ammler> (fully ok for me, I got way too much credits for firs already :-P 14:46:24 <planetmaker> Ammler: if you know how to fix building for distros and especially for suse: by all means just fix it 14:46:37 <planetmaker> if it includes to force the makefile single-threaded... meh, so it be 14:47:09 <Ammler> planetmaker: well, what rubi pasted would be a quick fix, to guard that by check for gimp and parameter would be nicer 14:47:10 <planetmaker> just worry about the default branch, I'll do backporting to 0.4 branch when needed 14:47:28 <andythenorth> Ammler: wrt FIRS you maintain devzone, which is essential 14:49:12 <Ammler> planetmaker: is there a target to clean gimp files beside the maintainer-clean? 14:49:31 <Ammler> I just wonder, when else you would use maintainer-clean then 14:49:52 <planetmaker> that's the target to clean the png files, yes 14:50:16 <planetmaker> hm, maybe distclean 14:50:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441 (New): Update credits and compatibility information... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3441 14:51:01 <andythenorth> FIRS needs 1.2.0-beta1, or nightly [r?????] 14:51:29 <planetmaker> 23166 is what I give for NML 14:51:33 <Rubidium> just say 23667 ;) 14:51:40 <planetmaker> but ^ 14:52:11 <Ammler> andythenorth: a credit on readme is ok, but on the verbose small grf desc isn't needed ;-) 14:54:58 <Ammler> and since people can read readme ingame, the readme is very verbose anyway now 14:55:50 <Ammler> concering ingame readme reader, I would split the readme to game infos and setup info 14:56:01 <Ammler> e.g. a install.txt 14:56:25 <Ammler> the makefile targets are very usless in the readme 14:57:53 <Yexo> the part about updating is still useful even in-game 14:58:37 <Ammler> also the readme seems to have merge conflict parts in it 15:00:07 <planetmaker> didn't I find all? 15:00:08 <Ammler> btw. is it configureable, can you use another file than readme? 15:00:19 * andythenorth wonders what FIRS action 14 props should be wrt savegame etc 15:00:24 <Yexo> Ammler: no 15:01:00 <planetmaker> just same rev ;-) 15:01:06 <planetmaker> I forgot that, of course :S 15:01:25 <Ammler> Yexo: well, the point 5.2 isn't about updateding, thus uselss 15:02:12 <Ammler> optaining firs (point 2) could be moved down 15:02:46 <Rubidium> I hope it's obtaining in the readme 15:02:48 <Ammler> as you have firs already and that point is only useful if you like to get a testing version 15:03:01 <Ammler> Rubidium: yes :-) 15:03:03 <planetmaker> anyway. Got to go. I wish you all a nice new years eve 15:03:14 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you too, thanks 15:03:14 <planetmaker> And see you next year 15:03:14 <Ammler> you too pm 15:03:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: too late for some last minute string translations? ;) 15:04:09 <Ammler> merge conflicts: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/docs/readme.ptxt#L28 15:04:19 <Rubidium> otherwise leave them till next year ;) 15:07:58 <andythenorth> Ammler: where do you get the conflicts? 15:08:00 <andythenorth> or how? 15:08:10 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441: Update credits and compatibility information for 0... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3441#change-8990 15:08:22 <Ammler> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/graph <-- why doesn't the graph show the merge? 15:08:36 <Ammler> andythenorth: you do not see the <<<<? 15:09:08 <Ammler> looks more like a transplant as a merge 15:09:20 <andythenorth> you're right, I see those 15:09:28 <andythenorth> there was no hg message :P 15:09:51 <Ammler> :-) 15:10:34 <Ammler> I guess, you fixed the conflicts itself and simply fogot to remove the markes 15:11:03 <andythenorth> that would have been pm ;) 15:11:07 <andythenorth> I assume 15:11:19 <Ammler> whoever is you :-P 15:30:55 * andythenorth ponders full rewrite of FIRS readme 15:30:57 <andythenorth> meh 17:13:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:13:20 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3045: Länderbahn rolling stock (Elukka) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3045#change-8991 17:19:02 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2677:c003d3678c71: Change: add Bulk class to BDMT (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/c003d3678c71 17:30:20 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3442 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3442 17:52:09 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 83:f77777336aa0: Feature: guardrails for median inside corners (p... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/f77777336aa0 17:55:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:56:51 <andythenorth> meh 17:56:55 <andythenorth> why does FIRS fail? 17:57:05 <andythenorth> CC_NEO_BULK isn't found in my local repo 17:57:40 <andythenorth> nmlc: "sprites/nml/cargo_props.pnml", line 506: Unrecognized identifier 'CC_NEO_BULK' encountered 17:57:49 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:00:11 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r894 to r899 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r899 18:01:56 <Brot6> bandit: update from r47 to r48 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/bandit/nightlies/r48 18:03:58 <Brot6> dutchroadfurniture: update from r77 to r83 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/dutchroadfurniture/nightlies/r83 18:07:04 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2678:aca34a6fb979: Fix: typo in checks file message (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/aca34a6fb979 18:08:49 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 18:14:24 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3067: guardrails (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3067#change-8992 18:25:49 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 84:c99ff3cd3882: Docs: update readme (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/c99ff3cd3882 18:38:46 <Brot6> nutracks: compile of r210 still failed (#3387) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/nightlies/ERROR/r210 18:40:58 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2679:ccc3d6a11833: Change: remove silver from coast para... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/ccc3d6a11833 18:41:43 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3443 (New): Station rating parameter needs a description (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3443 18:53:01 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2680:3cd14533890c: Change: update readme significantly (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3cd14533890c 18:54:13 <andythenorth> hmm 18:54:24 * andythenorth kind of needs to fix FIRS building - for a release 18:54:36 <andythenorth> wtf is wrong with it :( 18:55:17 <Rubidium> it uses stable nml for building instead of nighly nml? 18:55:25 <andythenorth> maybe 18:55:40 <andythenorth> it's reporting a missing identifier, but that has been removed 18:55:45 <andythenorth> it's not in my local repo at all 18:59:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2681:80cb269efa6c: Change: format readme better for 80 c... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/80cb269efa6c 19:03:48 <andythenorth> Ammler: how do we tell CF to 'hg up tip' for FIRS? 19:04:34 <andythenorth> or maybe that's wrong :( 19:04:44 <andythenorth> I'm not sure if we're supposed to be on 0.7 branch or tip 19:04:53 <andythenorth> s/ tip / trunk 19:04:53 <^Spike^> i get a feeling that any CF questions will be answered next year :) 19:05:14 <^Spike^> and it's not part of my knowledge how CF works :) 19:07:12 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains, bros (1 warnings), ogfx-industries, foobarstramtracks (Diffsize: 37132), transrapidtrackset, 2cctrainset (78 warnings), cets (373 warnings), worldairlinersset, heqs, basecosts, water-features, isr (2 warnings), 32bpp-extra (2 warnings), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 12), dutchtrains, rust (Diffsize: 188), ogfx-biggui 19:07:12 <Brot6> (Diffsize: 30), snowlinemod, dutchtramset, swisstowns (Diffsize: 43), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 8), frenchtowns (Diffsize: 21), ogfx-rv, fish, ogfx-landscape (2 warnings), ttrs (7 warnings), ogfx-trees, swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 51), smts (Diffsize: 8), chips (1 warnings), dach (Diffsize: 10855), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 64), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 29), airportsplus, 19:07:14 <Brot6> comic-houses (3 warnings) (Diffsize: 22) 19:08:18 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 19:09:22 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 19:10:27 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 19:11:25 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 19:12:22 <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r2675 19:13:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2682:2d6c6beb0319: Docs: update changelog preparatory to... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/2d6c6beb0319 19:15:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441: Update credits and compatibility information for 0... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3441#change-8990 19:17:27 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 85:471c888d58c3: Feature: left side drive motorway direction sign... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/471c888d58c3 19:17:27 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 86:e1cbdc83ce0d: Feature: left side drive motorway gantry signs (... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/e1cbdc83ce0d 19:21:12 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 87:47669c620452: Fix (r86): reorder some building blocks to aid p... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/47669c620452 19:29:12 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2683:5c0d3a957570: Change: (translations) update in-game... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5c0d3a957570 19:37:43 <Ammler> andythenorth: if you want to build non-default, you need to tag 19:37:57 <Ammler> it does not update to tip 19:38:04 <Ammler> it does update to default 19:38:31 <andythenorth> ok 19:38:31 <andythenorth> so when I tag 0.7.0 all should be well? 19:38:44 <Ammler> just tag a 0.7.0-beta :-P 19:38:50 <Ammler> or fix default 19:39:54 <Ammler> hg up default 19:39:58 <Ammler> hg merge 0.7 19:41:21 <andythenorth> I don't know what pm's intention was 19:41:21 <andythenorth> he merged to 0.7 branch for a reason I guess 19:41:21 <andythenorth> better I don't change what I don't understand 19:41:51 <Ammler> well, the bad thing pm does is backporting devel to stable, instead the easier way merging stable to devel 19:42:19 <Ammler> if fear this is kind of bad svn coding style 19:43:11 <Ammler> because svn isn't really able to merge 19:43:57 <Ammler> so yes, maybe better to wait for pm 19:44:06 <Ammler> and make a testing release tag 19:45:34 <Ammler> but you should do that now, I might not be able to help you fixing it if you plan to make a 0 o'clock release :-P 19:46:40 <Ammler> (the testing tag, I mean) 19:49:23 <andythenorth> ok 19:50:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2684:0b066d7ab857: Added tag 0.7.0-beta2 for changeset 5... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0b066d7ab857 19:50:49 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:53:44 <Brot6> firs: update from 0.7.0-beta1 to 0.7.0-beta2 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.0-beta2 19:56:35 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (Assigned): left hand drive support (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3433#change-8997 19:56:53 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 19:57:04 <Ammler> andythenorth: all fine, right? 19:57:23 <andythenorth> Ammler: seems so :) 19:57:26 <Ammler> then I wish you all a good new year :-P 19:57:26 <andythenorth> thanks 19:57:30 <andythenorth> you too 19:57:46 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 88:e1471dba766d: Feature: left side drive motorway matrix signs (... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/e1471dba766d 19:58:30 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 89:e778854c52bf: Feature: remove designed for right hand drive no... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/e778854c52bf 20:04:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2685:dec6d5ed7641: Change: set minimum compatible versio... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/dec6d5ed7641 20:07:43 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2686:3436d3198f6a: Change: set minimum ottd rev to 23667 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3436d3198f6a 20:18:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2687:aa1b0e355aed: Change: cleanup readme line endings a... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/aa1b0e355aed 20:20:02 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441 (Closed): Update credits and compatibility informat... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3441#change-8998 20:26:51 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3444 (New): Update project overview page content (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3444 20:26:57 <andythenorth> hmm 20:27:00 <andythenorth> probably done then 20:44:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2688:ccdc5b09e404: Added tag 0.7.0 for changeset aa1b0e3... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/ccdc5b09e404 20:44:43 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2689:a0071fe859fe: Codechange: remove premature 0.7.0 tag (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a0071fe859fe 20:44:43 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2690:0a28a9dae559: Change: improve formatting of readme ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0a28a9dae559 21:06:04 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2691:3a3eea57fe93: Added tag 0.7.0 for changeset 0a28a9d... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3a3eea57fe93 21:14:56 <Brot6> firs: update from 0.7.0-beta2 to 0.7.0 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.0 21:21:57 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3442 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3442#change-8999 21:22:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3097 (Closed): Consider to release a testing version to ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3097#change-9000 21:58:15 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 90:0d6e005d70ad: Fix (r77): error in activator purchase sprite (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/0d6e005d70ad 21:58:16 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 91:c4d1e956726d: Feature: left hand drive purchase menu sprites f... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/c4d1e956726d 22:03:35 *** JVassie has quit IRC 22:03:56 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:04:01 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 92:7721db7ed709: Feature: have activators recognize position of l... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/7721db7ed709 22:04:01 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (Closed): left hand drive support (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3433#change-9001 22:06:44 <Rubidium> new FIRS release and it's not on bananas, or do you want it to be the FIRSt release of 2012? 22:09:34 <Rubidium> although I find left hand drive Dutch road furniture odd as well ;) 22:10:36 <Rubidium> as far as I know there is only one bit of 'road' where they drive on the left side... and that's a railroad (HSL Zuid south of Rotterdam) 22:13:31 <andythenorth> Rubidium: last of 2011 22:13:38 <andythenorth> unless foobar beats me :P 22:37:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:37:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:39:20 <andythenorth> Rubidium: what timezone is bananas in? 22:39:42 <Rubidium> I hope UTC 22:40:06 <andythenorth> hmm 22:40:10 <andythenorth> wonder what timezone I'm in :P 22:40:28 <Rubidium> BT? 22:42:54 <Rubidium> but you're in GMT 22:43:29 <andythenorth> is it 22.43 for bananas? or 23.43? 22:43:50 <Rubidium> if it's UTC, then 22:43 22:46:05 <andythenorth> oh 22:46:14 <andythenorth> no 1.2.0 on bananas version list 22:47:08 <Rubidium> there's no 1.2.0 release yet ;) 22:47:25 <andythenorth> is there a custom number I can use? 22:47:47 <andythenorth> for 1.2.0-beta1 22:48:10 <Rubidium> @base 10 16 23667 22:48:10 <Webster> Rubidium: 5C73 22:48:27 <Rubidium> @base 16 10 12005C73 22:48:27 <Webster> Rubidium: 302013555 22:48:33 <Rubidium> ^ that 22:48:45 <Rubidium> @base 10 16 268435456 22:48:45 <Webster> Rubidium: 10000000 22:49:20 <Rubidium> yep, that 302013555 seems right 22:50:18 <andythenorth> perfect, thanks :) 22:51:08 <andythenorth> seems to work 23:30:36 *** sup has quit IRC 23:38:04 *** sup has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:46:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:51:24 *** Lakie has quit IRC