Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 4th January 2012:
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10:01:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2699:c1ba4755bfe8: Change: Update of Russian translation... (planetmaker) @
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15:35:08  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3414: New Vehicles (Yoshi) @
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16:41:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm going to try and fence some FIRS industries
16:41:47  <andythenorth> there may or may not be questions :P
16:43:01  <planetmaker> good :-)
16:54:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3453 (New): Fences for industries A-M (andythenorth) @
16:56:43  <planetmaker> what about #3365
16:56:43  <Brot6> planetmaker: #3365 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3365: Fences - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
16:57:02  <andythenorth> I've seen it :)
16:57:45  <andythenorth> I'm planning to provide fence code for all of them, then do another pass for custom graphics
16:59:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3454 (New): Fences for industries N-Z (andythenorth) @
17:02:16  <andythenorth> planetmaker: FWIW, the base set fence in OpenGFX is good.  Maybe it lacks variety to use it everywhere, but it's a good sprite.
17:02:43  <planetmaker> we could include it directly.
17:03:09  <andythenorth> could do
17:03:16  <andythenorth> it does no harm to use the base set though?
17:03:23  <andythenorth> the original graphics fence is also fine
17:03:41  <andythenorth> hmm
17:03:52  <andythenorth> maybe time to reimplement some more of the default industries
17:04:22  <planetmaker> it does no harm at all
17:04:48  <planetmaker> andythenorth: my idea was to implement a number of fence spritesets
17:04:55  <andythenorth> makes sense
17:05:01  <planetmaker> and then one can easily choose which one to use for a particular one
17:05:12  <andythenorth> well maybe base set + 1 other
17:05:15  <planetmaker> you might look at the DWE industries and ISR and maybe also at swedish rails
17:05:20  <andythenorth> I'll look now
17:05:23  <planetmaker> well. Many industries
17:05:37  <andythenorth> also....Steel Mill is not among the best sprites in OpenGFX
17:05:51  <andythenorth> maybe I should reshade it?
17:05:51  <planetmaker> i.e. I still like very much that my fences for SER have a small bush somewhere
17:06:02  <planetmaker> no, it is not. I'd very much like an improved version
17:07:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3455 (New): Reshade OpenGFX steel mill sprites (andythenorth) @
17:07:54  <planetmaker> brb
17:20:59  <andythenorth> the SE rails fences are nice
17:21:10  <andythenorth> DWE +VAST are not my taste
17:22:54  <planetmaker> back
17:32:21  <Brot6> firs: update from r2698 to r2699 done (9 warnings) -
17:32:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I think base set fences + SE rails fences
17:33:54  <planetmaker> well. why not. I think though that some heavy industry could get higher fences, though.
17:34:02  <planetmaker> But... that can always be added and changed
17:34:19  <andythenorth> it would be quite realistic, but will probably be a bit 'heavy'
17:34:26  <andythenorth> brb
17:34:29  <andythenorth> toddler feeding time
17:44:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ok, fences baffle me :)
17:44:59  <planetmaker> :-)
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17:45:23  <planetmaker> it's easy if you use an adv. spritelayout
17:45:34  <planetmaker> for using custom fences it needs a slight change in the fence template
17:45:48  <andythenorth> I need to find an example with both ground-aware sprites and fences
17:45:56  <planetmaker> thinking of it: we might need to include the default fences as we can't mix sprite numbers and sprite offsets into spritesets
17:45:57  * andythenorth looks
17:46:51  <andythenorth> hmm
17:47:01  * andythenorth wonders if it's just simple magic
17:48:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:48:44  <andythenorth> the magic didn't work :(
17:49:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3456 (New): White pixels in clay pit (andythenorth) @
17:51:25  <andythenorth> SPRITELAYOUT_FENCES_NORMAL_SNOW is magic right?
17:51:38  <planetmaker> andythenorth: easiest would be: create new fence spriteset (by using the existing fences) which use all 19 slopes
17:51:55  <planetmaker> and then for each border one spriteset
17:52:26  <andythenorth> it's probably easiest if you assume I have no idea how this works :)
17:52:36  <andythenorth> therefore I'm just going to agree with all your suggestions ;)
17:59:05  <planetmaker> meh
18:00:50  <andythenorth> I can follow the switches, but I don't understand the layouts at all
18:01:58  <planetmaker> dunno... what do you look at?
18:02:22  <planetmaker> for custom fences, I'd look at templates/fences.pnml
18:02:50  <planetmaker> and replace the sprite: ... by sprite: spriteset(some_offset);
18:03:20  <andythenorth> looking at aluminium plant at the moment
18:03:21  <planetmaker> where actually... some_offset could be the same as calculated by the fence switches as now
18:09:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3456 (Closed): White pixels in clay pit (andythenorth) @
18:09:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2700:551c71e1e488: Fix: remove white pixels for Clay Pit... (andythenorth) @
18:09:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3456 (Closed): White pixels in clay pit (andythenorth) @
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18:17:48  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3457 (New): NS 2000 (Voyager1) @
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18:43:34  <Solshine> Hi. I'm sorry if this seems a daft question, but how do I make sure I've got the required libraries for an AI I've downloaded?
18:43:44  <Solshine> I don't have internet on the machine I need to get the AI to, and I'm using Ubuntu on that machine.
18:48:00  <Ammler> the libraries also downloadable via bananas
18:48:12  <Ammler> those should be selected automatically
18:48:26  <Ammler> also in general you might get more help in #openttd
18:48:32  <frosch123> extract the tar and grep for "import"
18:48:34  <Ammler> this channel is for the users for .devzone
18:49:41  <Solshine> I see. Thank you.
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18:49:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: Zuu, could you please comment #3449
18:49:55  <Brot6> Ammler: planetmaker: #3449 is "Tutorial - Support #3449: Welcome on Devzone :-) -> New Category? - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
18:51:20  <planetmaker> "GameScript" sounds like a good category
18:57:27  <Brot6> Tutorial - Support #3449: Welcome on Devzone :-) -> New Category? (admin) @
18:57:28  <Ammler> rss show gamescripts
18:57:34  <Ammler> rss watch gamescripts
18:57:40  <Ammler> !rss show gamescripts
18:57:54  <Ammler> Brot6: rss show gamescripts
18:57:54  <Brot6> Ammler: lemme fetch it...
18:57:54  <Brot6> Ammler: using old data
18:57:54  <Brot6> Ammler: Channel : Game Scripts: Activity
18:57:54  <Brot6> Tutorial - Support #3449: Welcome on Devzone :-) -> New Category? (admin) @
18:57:54  <Brot6> Tutorial - Support #3449 (New): Welcome on Devzone :-) -> New Category? (Ammler) @
18:57:56  <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 2:a2cba27b55f4: added chapter plan document (Zuu) @
18:57:59  <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 1:994b2bac4c86: Published as v2 on forums (Zuu) @
18:58:02  <Brot6> Tutorial - Bug #3410 (Confirmed): Too small save/load steps (Zuu) @
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19:36:31  <Zuu> Ammler: Anything left for me to answer/do?
19:37:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
19:37:53  <Ammler> Zuu: I have no clue how those scripts work, how you build/test/publish it
19:38:09  <planetmaker> similar to AIs. They need packaging in tars
19:38:33  <Zuu> Just package in a tar and upload to banans.
19:38:53  <Ammler> well, the interesting part would be testing
19:39:26  <Zuu> In that case you just start OpenTTD
19:39:41  <Zuu> At least I keep my GS/AI development in a location which OpenTTD finds.
19:40:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: as with nearly everything, testing is very difficult
19:42:11  <Ammler> so no real need for a build script
19:43:44  <Zuu> The squirrel code is compiled by OpenTTD to some internal format when you start a new game. At that stage you can get errors in stdout/stderr. If the script compiles, then you have to rely on the AI debug window and in-game testing.
19:46:39  <planetmaker> apropos Zuu: what do you think of using the agpl for game scripts?
19:46:51  <planetmaker> (sorry for the totally unrelated question)
19:47:18  <Zuu> I don't know what agpl is. I have to look it up in order to have an opinion.
19:47:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the aGPL is a pain in the ass
19:47:44  <Rubidium> agpl doesn't quite work for game scripts
19:47:51  <planetmaker> <-- see there
19:47:52  <andythenorth> afaik, there's a clause in GPL v3 which has similar effect
19:47:52  <Webster> Title: Affero General Public License - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
19:47:55  <planetmaker> Rubidium: why not?
19:48:06  <Rubidium> as you'd need to provide a way to download it
19:48:43  <planetmaker> if you use a modified game script, yes
19:48:50  <andythenorth> do you download a GS to use it in your game?
19:49:14  <andythenorth> or does the MP server handle it?
19:49:37  <Zuu> A script stays at the server.
19:49:39  <planetmaker> it's server-side
19:49:44  <planetmaker> like AIs
19:49:53  <Zuu> Except for translations which are sent to the clients.
19:50:03  <planetmaker> the idea basically is, Zuu, that a server must publish the script, if it is modified
19:50:14  <planetmaker> (also otherwise, but, well)
19:55:34  <Zuu> I think least work would be to stick to GPL2, as most AI code is in GPL2 and that makes it easier to share code between projects. Now we got SuperLib so tutorial will probably include that much code from other projects. (yes I know if the other project is fully written by me or at least the code that is to be copied, as then I own the copyright and can just lisence it again in a different license)
19:56:41  <Zuu> But there is sure question here if we want to try to require people to re-publish their works by enforcing it in the license.
19:57:59  <Zuu> Will that make those people to publish their work or will the addition of another license just add extra trouble for those who want to share code and play nice?
19:59:07  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3414: New Vehicles (Yoshi) @
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20:14:50  <andythenorth> worth knowing that aGPL is not GPL v2 compatible
20:15:00  <andythenorth> or at least, not without all authors re-licensing
20:44:22  <andythenorth> ho
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21:00:20  <andythenorth> why does SPRITELAYOUT_NORMAL_SNOW need so many parameters?
21:00:30  <andythenorth> can't the snow sprites have a standard naming pattern?
21:01:49  <andythenorth> makes it wider than my editor window for one thing :P
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21:18:57  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3414: New Vehicles (Yoshi) @
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21:31:31  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3414: New Vehicles (Yoshi) @
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21:37:52  <Yexo> <planetmaker> (also otherwise, but, well) <- and that is problematic
21:38:56  <planetmaker> yes. But if you use a "vanilla" script from bananas, the download is somewhat clear. Yes, it's problematic
21:41:55  <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 51:1240f9adf173: Add: skeleton files for various trucks (andythenorth) @
21:43:27  <Yexo> it's "somewhat clear" yes, but that's not enough for the license
21:49:58  <Brot6> SuperLib - Revision 45:b43c363dfc6f: Forgot to add town.nut to respority (Zuu) @
21:51:24  <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 52:15734f8985bc: Add: futher skeleton files for various trucks (andythenorth) @
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