Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st February 2012:
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00:46:48  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 589:b84ee1f8f4c1: Fix: missing maximum speed values for art... (oberhuemer) @
00:46:48  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 590:a3472dc37e76: Fix: incorrect MU weight values (oberhuemer) @
00:46:48  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 591:cfc453f3ddd3: Fix: incorrect MU power values (oberhuemer) @
00:46:50  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 592:ec779ac1b96b: Fix: use sum of parts' running costs as t... (oberhuemer) @
00:53:55  <Brot6> cets: update from r588 to r592 done (298 warnings) -
02:27:26  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2750: Tracking Table (oberhuemer) @
02:28:18  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2750: Tracking Table (Eddi) @
02:35:13  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 593:4a652c7b7ca4: convert power value to a float (Eddi) @
02:35:13  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 594:7277949c3910: sum power of articulated parts (Eddi) @
02:42:24  <Brot6> cets: update from r592 to r594 done (298 warnings) -
04:15:56  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2750: Tracking Table (Eddi) @
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10:33:26  <Ammler> when I submit openttd to the standard suse repos, shall I simply forget about opensfx (and probably openmsx) and add a note that those packages should be downloaded via bananas, how does debian solve that issue?
11:05:10  <Rubidium> openmsx is gpl, so it's in main
11:05:28  <Rubidium> opensfx is ccsp, so it's in non-free
11:05:41  <Rubidium> I think the long description mentions that package being in non-free
11:06:00  <Rubidium> the openttd package recommends opengfx and openmsx, and suggests opensfx
12:16:12  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3633 (New): Rotterdam T-type (Voyager1) @
13:17:23  <V453000> is it in some regard a bad idea to add IDs to vehicles? I read it is only good when replacing existing vehicles. But I guess it makes caring over compatibility easier and I can also orientate in the long file better (I code under windows so I have the whole newGRF in one file :))
13:17:45  <V453000> compatibility between versions I mean
13:19:43  <planetmaker> it doesn't hurt to assign explicit IDs / numbers to a vehicle.
13:20:04  <planetmaker> You could even do that for all vehicles in one place in a separate item block
13:20:28  <planetmaker> where you subsequently associate each item name with an ID and not much more. Maybe also a name string, if you want
13:21:22  <V453000> ok thank you :) I even used only odd numbers for now and left some other spaces so I have many IDs free
13:21:56  <planetmaker> you don't need free IDs
13:22:08  <V453000> for eventual future vehicles to be added?
13:22:19  <planetmaker> Yes. Just give them the next higher number
13:22:34  <V453000> yeah but then they sort that way in the purchase list, dont they?
13:22:45  <V453000> when sorting by ID ofc
13:22:55  <planetmaker> you can explicitly force a sorting anyway
13:23:02  <planetmaker> as default
13:23:13  <planetmaker> there's a sorting "property"
13:23:22  <V453000> I saw something like that somewhere yes :)
13:23:36  <V453000> I guess I will just keep it as I have it :D at least it has some system
13:24:00  <planetmaker> well. I saw a few sets with a similar "system". It inevitably failed and made things much more complicated
13:24:31  <V453000> how?
13:25:16  <planetmaker> Like the not sufficient "free" ids. And then another had to be used anyway. And then sorting had to be hand-defined anyway
13:25:43  <V453000> ah right :)
13:25:54  <V453000> well I have really many free ids :p
13:25:56  <planetmaker> And that might happen with any scheme
13:26:19  <planetmaker> Well. Feel free. Just my experience is: devising an ID scheme is more trouble and work than it's worth to just assign it sequentially
13:27:08  <V453000> I understand and believe that, I just somehow feel like I left enough gaps everywhere ... hopefully :)
13:27:27  <planetmaker> :-) Yeah, that's what all people thought ;-)
13:27:30  <V453000> :P
13:28:15  <planetmaker> It also makes assigning new IDs much more tedious (i.e. needs a good check whether already used and so on)
13:30:10  <V453000> I have a strict system of a table like this top right
13:30:11  <Webster> Title: Unrealistic Train Set engine table (at
13:31:07  <V453000> but yes, as you said, every system has a limit :)
13:31:13  <planetmaker> oh... and...
13:31:29  <V453000> ooh nice
13:31:47  <planetmaker> that's what I try to tell you the whole time. And why your ID approach is so useless ;-)
13:32:00  <V453000> I guess
13:32:04  <V453000> hmm
13:32:36  <V453000> are the IDs used anywhere else than the purchase list?
13:33:06  <planetmaker> they're generally not of importance to the user
13:33:21  <planetmaker> they're important, if you want to write an override NewGRF
13:33:31  <V453000> yes
13:33:41  <planetmaker> or play w/o engine pool. But no-one sane does anymore ;-)
13:33:59  <V453000> idk, I think I will just keep it as I have it, I do not really mind tedious or long repetitive work :)
13:42:43  <V453000> just wait till your words come very true :D
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14:23:44  <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 186:64225450f4c7: Codechange: found a very sane way to handle global constants ... (andythenorth) @
15:56:59  <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3625 (Closed): Replace legacy cpp constants - 'global' and others (andythenorth) @
17:11:01  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r864 to r865 done -
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17:20:00  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 866:c637881a561b: -Codechange: pass SpriteInfo directly instead of using wrap... (Rubidium) @
17:21:06  <Brot6> bandit: update from r173 to r186 done (1 warnings) -
17:26:13  <Brot6> cets: update from r586 to r594 done (298 warnings) -
17:28:43  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r865 to r866 done -
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18:04:54  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: bros (1 warnings), transrapidtrackset, 2cctrainset (78 warnings), cets (298 warnings), worldairlinersset, heqs, basecosts, water-features, isr (2 warnings), 32bpp-extra (2 warnings), newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 12), snowlinemod, metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), fish, ttrs (7 warnings), ogfx-trees, smts (Diffsize: 8), chips (1 warnings), comic-houses (3
18:04:54  <Brot6> warnings) (Diffsize: 22)
19:05:46  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 867:a4d69b35fdd6: -Codechange: prepare for multiple sprites per real sprite (Rubidium) @
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19:23:00  <Hirundo> ^^ that commit message looks interesting...
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19:23:41  <planetmaker> yes, I should soonish learn to use blender and script it...
19:25:26  <Hirundo> will those 'multiple sprites' be extra-zoom, 32bpp, or both?
19:25:55  <planetmaker> both
19:26:07  <planetmaker> like each combination you can think of
19:28:29  <Hirundo> awesome :o
19:28:34  <Hirundo> before 1.2, or after?
19:29:12  <planetmaker> there's no 1.2 branch yet :-)
19:31:14  * Hirundo likes
19:32:09  <planetmaker> it will basically require the whole 32bpp to rethink how it used, though.
19:32:30  <planetmaker> But will make it much easier to handle as it then doesn't differ between 8bpp and 32bpp nor between zoom levels
19:32:41  <planetmaker> for grf authors
19:32:53  <planetmaker> you just provide what you want. That's it
19:33:06  <planetmaker> but you have to provide 8bpp, though ;-)
19:33:13  <planetmaker> normal zoom as baseline
19:34:21  <Hirundo> sounds sensible
19:54:33  <andythenorth> NML or nml when referring to it?
19:57:16  <planetmaker> I'd say NML
19:57:17  <planetmaker> but...
20:02:09  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #2750: Tracking Table (oberhuemer) @
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20:26:29  <ToniBabelony> hello all
20:26:55  <planetmaker> hello ToniBabelony
20:27:04  <ToniBabelony> I'm trying to use SOUND_EVENT_XXX in NML, can anyone help me out here?
20:27:22  <ToniBabelony> hello planetmaker :)
20:27:58  <planetmaker> please just ask the question... if someone knows and has time he'll answer ;-)
20:28:10  <ToniBabelony> I'm trying to replace the default sound with a custom .wav file, but I don't know how to do this.
20:30:44  * andythenorth added notes on OS X here:
20:30:54  <Hirundo> what default sound?
20:31:05  <planetmaker> <-- does that help, ToniBabelony ?
20:31:35  <ToniBabelony> I'm trying to replace the SOUND_EVENT_START with a custom .wav
20:32:01  <planetmaker> sure you want to replace it and not add a new for your vehicle(s)?
20:32:29  <ToniBabelony> Either that or replace it. I think adding a new one is easier, but it has to be for that event.
20:32:36  <ToniBabelony> or any event for that matter
20:32:50  <andythenorth> this is entirely *nothing* to do with NML or toni's question, but I could never get grfcodec to encode a custom sound on OS X
20:33:42  <Ammler> maybe you used an old grfcodec back then
20:33:54  <ToniBabelony> IIRC we had some custom sounds in the JapanSet some time ago and that was encoded on mac, so that worked
20:34:39  <planetmaker> <-- I suggest to read the sound_effect part on vehicle properties
20:36:10  <planetmaker> so either as property for the vehicle itself you can use sound_effect: import(file.wav);
20:36:15  <planetmaker> for a new sound related to that
20:36:57  <ToniBabelony> I understand that part, but what if I want to add running sounds and starting sounds as well, how do I assign those new sounds to their events?
20:37:17  <planetmaker> or for trains you have to do it via the sound_effect callback
20:37:34  <planetmaker> And test the extra_callback_info1 for the exact sound which is going to be played
20:37:37  <planetmaker> hold on
20:37:48  <ToniBabelony> ok :)
20:43:46  <planetmaker> <-- something like that
20:44:43  <ToniBabelony> ah thanks for that, but I think I've figured it out
20:44:57  <ToniBabelony> switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_KS1_start_sound, extra_callback_info1) {
20:44:57  <ToniBabelony> 	0: return SOUND_EVENT_START;
20:44:57  <ToniBabelony> 	return sound("sounds/Horn03.wav");
20:45:03  <ToniBabelony> pretty easy actually :D
20:45:29  <ToniBabelony> but thanks anyway!
20:45:47  <planetmaker> uhm... I'm pretty sure that's playing the horn for every occasion but the sound_event_start
20:46:01  <ToniBabelony> ooh dear
20:46:08  <planetmaker> and not quite what you want. Unless you want all sounds of that train replaced
20:46:12  <planetmaker> to the same horn sound
20:46:29  <ToniBabelony> hmm, that would be quite annoying, wouldn't it :P
20:46:44  <planetmaker> and please don't use 0: ... but use the constants like SOUND_EVENT_START
20:46:55  <ToniBabelony> I see what you did there.
20:46:57  <ToniBabelony> Thanks!
20:48:03  <planetmaker> and you shoud return there the sound constant like and not the sound type constant as actual sound
20:49:44  <Hirundo> those sound constants are of no use with custom sounds
20:50:06  <planetmaker> Hirundo, they're useful, if you want to juggle sounds
20:50:16  <planetmaker> i.e. use default in other places
20:50:37  <ToniBabelony> Okay, but the import(sound.wav) doesn't work
20:50:47  <ToniBabelony> you should use sound(sound.wav) instead
20:50:53  <Hirundo> planetmaker: indeed
20:51:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I think I cannot subscribe to your addition to the NML install guide. Works for me flawless
20:51:09  <ToniBabelony> now I only have to adjust the size of the files (64kb max.)
20:51:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: feel free to revert
20:51:54  <andythenorth> for me ports failed
20:52:00  <andythenorth> manual install worked flawless
20:52:27  <planetmaker> you'll also need the python from ports, of course
20:52:35  <planetmaker> mixing ports and non-ports is what fails
20:52:56  <andythenorth> is that the known cause of PIL failing?
20:53:17  <planetmaker> it's a cause of not being found in the proper paths
20:53:21  <andythenorth> I'm told that it's because PIL ships incompatible with setuptools
20:53:24  <planetmaker> or having the wrong deps
20:53:40  <planetmaker> I don't know setuptools
20:53:49  <planetmaker> I just know that my whole setup is from macports
20:54:16  <andythenorth> you installed an additional python alongside the Apple supplied one?
20:54:29  <planetmaker> yes
20:54:35  <planetmaker> easy to update
20:54:37  <andythenorth> + set it to be default?
20:54:42  <planetmaker> yes
20:54:44  <andythenorth> ok
20:54:46  <planetmaker> which ports did for me
20:54:50  <andythenorth> that would probably have worked for me too
20:55:12  <planetmaker> mixing of course fails
20:55:23  <ToniBabelony> sound adjusting worked! awesome, thanks guys!
20:55:23  <planetmaker> it's then linking to wrong libraries
20:55:30  <planetmaker> nice, ToniBabelony :-)
20:55:45  <andythenorth> maybe the note should cover that instead then
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20:58:50  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'll edit
21:01:52  <andythenorth> dunno if it's better
21:01:55  * andythenorth is very tired
22:25:48  <planetmaker> #2790
22:25:49  <Brot6> planetmaker: #2790 is "GRFCodec - Feature Request #2790: Renum: Escape RPN expressions. - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
22:26:10  <frosch123> he, i did it the complicated way .p
22:26:28  <planetmaker> :-)
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22:36:45  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
22:36:54  <Ammler> @services op
22:36:54  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
22:36:55  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
22:36:55  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Downloads log: | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames"
22:43:23  <Brot6> NewGRF build framework - Feature Request #3627 (New): add *.pyc to the .hgignore by default? (andythenorth) @
22:45:27  <Ammler> andythenorth: the build framework has no python scripts has it?
22:45:51  <andythenorth> not afaik
22:46:18  <Ammler> you should then extend your FR to add those scripts :-)
22:46:34  <andythenorth> FR?
22:46:38  <andythenorth> oh
22:47:00  * andythenorth parses acronym :P
22:47:10  <Ammler> did you remove cpp dependency?
22:47:23  <andythenorth> hmm
22:47:28  <andythenorth> maybe I did
22:47:39  <Ammler> that would be worth a ticket, imo :-)
22:47:58  <andythenorth> I have one #define left
22:48:07  <andythenorth> it's just a temporary thing
22:52:12  <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 187:980d92ef1a05: Codechange: eliminate last cpp use (andythenorth) @
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22:54:24  <andythenorth> Ammler: ^ :)
22:55:09  <ToniBabelony> Hello all, I'm back with a question on NML coding: I'm trying to make a vehicle change liveries after a certain year, how can this be done? It's supposed to only change liveries when newly bought or serviced in a depot. Please help!
22:55:26  <Ammler> andythenorth: well, you have still a "bug" in your scripts with the languages
22:55:31  <Ammler> which cets doesn't have afaik
22:55:33  <ToniBabelony> *with changing liveries, I mean replacing sprites.
22:56:28  <andythenorth> Ammler: what's the bug?
22:56:33  <andythenorth> oh I recall
22:56:40  <Ammler> missing *.lng
22:56:46  <Ammler> or how that is called
22:57:00  <Ammler> ToniBabelony: if you don't get answer here, try #openttd
22:57:15  <andythenorth> hmm
22:57:38  <andythenorth> make
22:57:50  <ToniBabelony> @Ammler: will do
22:58:03  <ToniBabelony> ammler, will do
22:58:10  <Ammler> :-)
22:58:19  <andythenorth> if there are no .lng files in /lang, then lang/*.lng won't find anything :o
22:58:24  <andythenorth> dunno how to fix that
22:58:43  <Ammler> no clue how cets fixed it, maybe ask eddi
22:59:21  <andythenorth> I think he has english.lng committed
22:59:30  <andythenorth> so it's not cleaned away by make clean
22:59:44  <andythenorth> my entire lang file is generated
22:59:53  <andythenorth> so a clean project won't have it
23:00:19  <andythenorth> I guess
23:01:10  <Ammler> well, parsing ls is also bad style
23:01:28  <Ammler> but that might be something on the framework not your issue
23:02:26  <andythenorth> I am a bit out of my depth with makefile :)
23:07:16  <planetmaker> [ -f lang/*.lng ] && script
23:08:01  <planetmaker> or rather [ -f lang/english.lng ] && echo "ja"
23:08:11  <planetmaker> replace the echo part by what you need
23:08:50  <andythenorth> in
23:08:59  <andythenorth> or somewhere else?
23:10:03  <planetmaker> I've no clue what you want to do. So no idea how to answer that question
23:10:27  <andythenorth> ah :)
23:10:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: I guess, he rather need to replace a ls from the framewrok
23:10:57  <andythenorth> I have cargo-cult (copy and paste) makefile code from eddi
23:11:02  <planetmaker> I just gave you the bash way to execute a script only if the lang file exists
23:11:25  <planetmaker> cets solved it by creating a rule to generate the lng files
23:12:35  <andythenorth> I have this
23:13:18  <planetmaker> any rule which requires the lang files should then explicitly require them
23:13:28  <planetmaker> so that they're generated then
23:15:02  <Ammler> the ls might be from dep check
23:15:28  * andythenorth is happy to learn more about make
23:15:40  <andythenorth> now might be a bad time to start though :o
23:15:42  <andythenorth> sleepy time
23:15:45  <Ammler> hmm, if you require python, you should use the python dep script anyway
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23:16:05  <andythenorth> this was a lashup to get something working
23:16:17  <andythenorth> I was happy it worked at all :)
23:16:31  <andythenorth> I would appreciate any improvements
23:17:02  <Ammler> python dep check is already there
23:19:39  <andythenorth> do I need to change anything?
23:19:51  <andythenorth> or can I go to sleep?
23:19:57  <andythenorth> ;)
23:20:43  <planetmaker> ToniBabelony: make use of variables. In your case use build_year
23:20:53  <planetmaker> possibly read the tutorial on
23:21:28  * planetmaker suggests sleep. At least for myself ;-)
23:21:31  <planetmaker> good night
23:22:10  <ToniBabelony> thanks, hitting the sack as well
23:22:17  <ToniBabelony> cheers and good night!
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