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00:05:56 *** Zuu has quit IRC 00:17:33 *** Zuu_ has quit IRC 01:05:33 *** JVassie has quit IRC 02:05:58 *** frosch has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:12:36 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 02:51:11 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Support #3738 (New): Multi-car consists (Leanden) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3738 02:53:15 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Support #3728 (Feedback): Resized tem... (Leanden) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3728#change-9785 03:33:51 *** frosch has quit IRC 08:00:32 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 907:98f074743759: -Fix: missing newline in grfstrip help (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/98f074743759 08:00:32 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 908:81c7bcabb99d: -Fix: show the error message that the filename could not be... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/81c7bcabb99d 08:00:32 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 909:4b7b49d3e2bb: -Change: ignore WITH_PNG in NFORenum. We know NFO with PNG ... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/4b7b49d3e2bb 08:00:33 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 910:1315cae63dc6: -Change: let GRFCodec fail more clearly when it encounters ... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/1315cae63dc6 08:02:30 <Brot6> NFORenum - Feature #1751 (Closed): How to use escape for a part of a field? (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1751#change-9786 08:12:56 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 911:bad952310a69: -Feature-ish: when in a base GRF do not warn about the shor... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/bad952310a69 08:12:56 <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #2013 (Closed): nforenum warns about action5 sprite count for shore tiles in base ... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2013#change-9787 08:19:46 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:20:46 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 912:e9247c67bef1: -Change: do not warn when there are more than the prescribe... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/e9247c67bef1 08:20:46 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 913:b11be37d419d: -Change: do not warn when the NewGRF uses a base GRF GRF ID (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/b11be37d419d 08:49:19 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:37:20 *** Zuu has quit IRC 09:45:51 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:53:29 *** Doorslammer has quit IRC 09:59:26 <Jupix> Yexo: thanks for the headsup on cgtextures 10:03:06 <planetmaker> Jupix, I think the statement was "releasing those textures is not allowed" 10:03:30 <planetmaker> (in an OSS package) 10:03:40 <Jupix> derivative works also and that includes renders of models where those textures are used 10:04:34 <Jupix> it's not a huge issue. just need to replace those textures with open ones 10:04:43 <planetmaker> yep, of course 10:05:14 <planetmaker> then I mis-understand how you use "heads up" on something :-) 10:06:03 <planetmaker> (I use to interpret it as "it's a good thing keep going" 10:06:49 <planetmaker> which these textures aren't. But there are many OSS projects which have many nice textures 10:07:24 <Jupix> I use this interpretation: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heads-up 10:07:26 <Webster> Title: heads-up - definition of heads-up by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (at www.thefreedictionary.com) 10:08:07 <planetmaker> interesting. Thanks, seems i have to re-learn that word 10:08:22 <planetmaker> false friend with German language 10:18:05 <Rubidium> interesting... grfcodec and nml have a different idea whether a sprite should be saved chunked or not 10:18:19 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:24:47 <planetmaker> as with best compression? 10:28:26 <Rubidium> yep 10:28:51 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 914:e57d314be5f7: -Fix-ish: account for the 4 extra grf container version 2 b... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/e57d314be5f7 10:31:55 <Rubidium> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1154/ 10:32:34 <Rubidium> it's all quite insignificant, but still ;) 10:34:53 <planetmaker> interesting... it will save nearly 1MB from a full OpenGFX then later 10:43:34 <Rubidium> I wouldn't say that just yet 10:44:03 <Rubidium> it might be that the NML compressor is better at larger 'data sets' 10:45:56 <planetmaker> well, but iirc sprites in (New)GRFs have no choice which way they get compressed (if at all)? Or do I err? 10:49:46 <Rubidium> well, there's chunked and non-chunked encoding 10:50:11 <Rubidium> given OpenTTD re-encodes them after loading them it doesn't matter at all which one to use. For TTDP it might matter though 10:50:52 <Rubidium> so grfcodec -n and nml try both schemes, then LZ77-ish compress that and compare the compressed sizes 10:51:15 <Rubidium> given the LZ77 compressors probably aren't equal, you'd have a difference there 10:51:44 <Rubidium> which is why GRFCodec and NML decide differently on what to store chunked and what to store non-chunked 10:52:07 <Rubidium> so I think the major difference is in the actual compressor and the rest is relatively insignificant 10:52:51 <Rubidium> although NML's comparison could be improved similar to r914 of GRFCodec, though that's probably a relatively small part of the difference 11:02:15 <planetmaker> well. For TTDP it's about irrelevant when we speak of grf v8 or nfo v32. Hm, but so the LZ77 has a 'dictionary' which differs then... 11:05:04 <Rubidium> well, the compressor's algorithm probably differs a bit 11:06:03 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:10:30 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 254:db5ad6aec5e2: Feature: finish HS-DD coach (issue #2951, issue #3345) (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/db5ad6aec5e2 11:10:30 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 255:ebbbbf200dd7: Feature: finish HIJSM 4-8-10 coach (issue #2951, is... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/ebbbbf200dd7 11:12:16 <LordAro> why do the logs for the last couple of days not appear to be working? 11:13:11 <planetmaker> which logs? 11:13:18 <LordAro> correction: why is it that 24th and 25th feb do not work? 11:13:24 <LordAro> e.g. http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttdcoop.devzone&date=1330128000 11:14:40 <planetmaker> I think the idea was to not have logs of this channel ;-) 11:15:42 <LordAro> for 2 specific days? :P 11:15:46 <LordAro> 26th works 11:21:57 <planetmaker> hm :-) Then I don't know 11:40:33 <Yexo> Rubidium: interesting, nmlc lz77 implementation was made with grfcodec's code as reference 13:19:07 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:39:19 <Brot6> Japanese Landscape - Code Review #3705 (Feedback): Comments & suggestions (dandan) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3705#change-9789 13:41:20 <Brot6> Japanese Tracks - Feature Request #3615 (Closed): Use new track type label scheme (dandan) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3615#change-9790 13:43:42 <Brot6> Japanese Landscape - Revision 10:832fa3e7c026: Use darker rice field graphics (dandan) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jpland/repository/revisions/832fa3e7c026 13:47:05 *** LordAro has quit IRC 13:49:36 <planetmaker> The server needs a restart. We'll be back shortly 13:58:04 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:58:06 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:58:21 *** ^ekipS^ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:58:23 *** Yexo- has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:58:54 *** pm has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:59:03 *** V453000 has quit IRC 13:59:13 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 13:59:13 *** ^ekipS^ is now known as ^Spike^ 13:59:25 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 13:59:25 *** pm is now known as planetmaker 13:59:25 *** tneo- has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:59:31 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 13:59:31 *** avdg has quit IRC 13:59:38 *** Yexo has quit IRC 13:59:41 *** Ammller has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:59:50 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 13:59:53 *** Ammler has quit IRC 13:59:55 *** tneo has quit IRC 13:59:55 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 13:59:55 *** Guest4082 has quit IRC 14:00:22 *** Terkhen has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:00:47 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:00:52 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:01:23 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:04:35 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3739 (New): Extended action1 (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3739 14:09:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:21:23 <Brot6> Japanese Landscape - Code Review #3705: Comments & suggestions (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3705#change-9791 14:26:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:33:34 *** Yexo- is now known as Yexo 14:48:02 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 256:763c4682c15d: Feature: finish remaining historic passenger wagons... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/763c4682c15d 14:48:03 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 257:00c0715308f9: Feature: finish historic mail wagons (issue #3345) (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/00c0715308f9 14:58:46 *** V453000 has quit IRC 14:58:46 *** Ammler has quit IRC 14:58:46 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** avdg has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** Yexo has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 14:58:47 *** tneo- has quit IRC 14:59:48 *** Hirundo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:59:58 *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:00:18 *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:00:43 *** planetmaker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:00:48 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:01:03 *** tneo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:01:14 *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:02:18 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:02:18 *** Terkhen has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:02:48 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:02:50 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:20:25 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1838:5b4055b7f812: Add: Regression test for font_glyph (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/5b4055b7f812 15:20:25 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1840:2a349d7c0ed4: Fix: Rename all occurences of 'base_sprites' t... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/2a349d7c0ed4 15:20:25 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1839:d7625535e8c9: Codechange: Refactor replace[new] blocks to wo... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/d7625535e8c9 15:20:28 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1841:3e01f866df87: Codechange: Refactor base_graphics to work wit... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/3e01f866df87 15:20:31 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1842:82dc4e8f60b4: Add: Regression test for base graphics. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/82dc4e8f60b4 15:20:35 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1843:e7a1b56d4c8a: Codechange: Refactor spriteset to work with th... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/e7a1b56d4c8a 15:20:39 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1844:ea44046b144c: Codechange: Move the call to get_all_sprite_da... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/ea44046b144c 15:20:43 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1845:6f69b96cf8a7: Feature: Let the alt_sprites block accept a 'b... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/6f69b96cf8a7 15:21:50 <Hirundo> Yexo: Stage one done ^^ 15:21:57 <Yexo> already reading it :) 15:23:08 <Hirundo> now, time to extend the nfo/grf output 15:26:43 <Yexo> Hirundo: where did the heights in r1838 come from? 15:26:53 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/rev/bdf189329603 <-- Hirundo, from that diff: do you set 32bpp blitter when defining any alternative sprites? 15:27:06 <Yexo> openttd uses 6/10/18 px as height for sprite fonts 15:27:25 <Hirundo> Yexo: AFAIK I copied something from ogfx 15:27:34 <Yexo> ok 15:27:45 <Hirundo> planetmaker: yes, diff line 8.8 (main.py) 15:28:17 <planetmaker> that's not really sensible when only defining 8bpp zoom sprites, or? 15:28:21 <Yexo> opengfx uses 8/13/21 indeed 15:28:33 <planetmaker> yes... ^ 15:28:38 <planetmaker> which is problematic 15:28:41 <planetmaker> but it does 15:28:51 <Yexo> should be 8/12/20 I think 15:28:55 <Hirundo> r1845 changes alt_sprites to set any_32bpp sprites iff the alt_sprites are actually 32bpp instead of 8bpp 15:29:07 <planetmaker> ok :-) 15:29:13 <Hirundo> Yexo: Did you already add something for masks? 15:29:25 <Yexo> nope 15:29:44 <Yexo> wasn't sure what exactly you were coding and didn't want to cause conflicts 15:29:47 <planetmaker> I wasn't at r1845 yet 15:32:11 <Hirundo> Yexo: actually, hg blame tells me mask files were added in r1682 (oct 11) 15:32:52 <Yexo> well, yes 15:33:16 <Yexo> but that implementation forces all parameters of the mask to be exactly the same as for the sprite with one exception: the filename 15:33:20 <Hirundo> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/rev/5425d8945193 < didn't know that 15:35:23 <Yexo> it seems I never documented that :( 15:35:35 <Yexo> we could keep using that,what do you think? 15:36:16 <Hirundo> makes sense 15:36:33 <Hirundo> I guess you'll use the same layout for mask and normal sprites 99% of the time 15:37:08 <Hirundo> 'mask' could be amended later to be either a "file" or ["file"[, xoffs, yoffs]] 15:37:38 <Yexo> not xoffs/yoffs but left_x/upper_y 15:38:06 <Yexo> you probably meant the correct thing, but it's confusing 15:38:13 <Hirundo> exactly 15:38:48 <Yexo> can I help with any part? 15:39:44 <Hirundo> not atm, I think 15:52:36 <Hirundo> How do empty real sprites work as part of a multi-part sprite? (both in grf and nfo) 15:53:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:56:09 <Yexo> suppose you have a special sprite for a rail vehicle for in the build gui 15:56:19 <Yexo> you need a spriteset with 8 sprites, but 7 of those will be unused 15:56:49 <Yexo> instead of manually creating an empty sprite and putting it there, you put an empty sprite 15:57:54 <Yexo> no realsprite should be written for those if possible, but I'm not sure it is, otherwise a 1x1 transparant image should be written 15:57:55 <Hirundo> Yes, I know that 15:58:19 <Hirundo> Current NFO syntax is "-1 * 1 00" 15:58:28 <Hirundo> that doesn't seem to lend itself very well to extension 15:58:42 <Yexo> that's basically a pseudo-sprite of length 0 16:00:11 <Hirundo> afaik length 1, binary 0 16:00:30 <Yexo> hmm, right 16:04:21 <Hirundo> Is there a real benefit of using that, instead of a 1x1 blue pixel? 16:06:46 <Yexo> probably not 16:07:21 <Hirundo> saves a few bytes, I guess 16:08:04 <Hirundo> Though I'm not sure, how you'd output an empty sprite in nfo, if other zoom levels are non-empty 16:08:17 <Yexo> not 16:08:24 <Yexo> if one zoom level is empty, all must be empty 16:08:40 <Yexo> or rather: empty 8bpp normal zoom: all zoom levels must be empty 16:08:56 <Yexo> non-empty 8bpp normal zoom: if any other zoom level is empty, don't write it at all and fall back to the 8bpp sprite 16:11:11 <Yexo> or we could simply allow it (in which case we have to use an empty 1x1 pixel) 16:20:17 *** Doorslammer has quit IRC 16:26:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:28:33 <Hirundo> Yexo: Are recolour sprites still written to the data section? 16:30:14 <Yexo> not sure, frosch123 / Rubidium? ^^ 16:35:46 <Yexo> actually, yes, I'm quite sure they're still written to the data section 16:35:58 <Yexo> that part is already implemented in nml 16:36:04 <frosch123> i would have said "no", but cannot remember either :) 16:36:19 <frosch123> but likely grfcodec cannot distinguish them 16:37:21 <Yexo> grfcodec cannot distinguish a recolor sprite from other pseudo-sprites (you need to parse the sprites to do that, which grfcodec doesn't do), so it must store them in the data section like other pseudo sprites 16:37:42 <Hirundo> makes sense 16:37:51 <frosch123> yeah, but i wonder whether ottd supports both 16:38:11 <Hirundo> consequence is, that you cannot have alternative_sprites for recolour sprites 16:38:32 <frosch123> if we ever want to compress the data section, it would either have to load the recolour sprites permanently into the spritecache, or they may not be in the data section 16:38:37 <Yexo> but do alternative sprites for recolour sprites make sense at all? 16:38:37 <planetmaker> does that make sense, though? 16:38:46 <Hirundo> no 16:38:53 <frosch123> alternative sprites for recolour sprite? no :) 16:39:08 <Hirundo> but it needs code to check, which is important to me right now :-) 16:39:31 <frosch123> there are no alternative sounds either :) 16:39:40 <frosch123> only realsprites have the zoomlevel and bitdepth bytes 16:39:43 <planetmaker> now, that'd be weired :-) 16:40:04 <frosch123> actually, alternative sounds per zoomlevel would make sense 16:40:10 <planetmaker> like in zoom-out the train makes 'moo' and looks like a cow. And zoomed-in it makes 'woof' and looks like a dog? :-P 16:40:16 <planetmaker> would it? 16:40:36 <frosch123> you would only hear birds when zoomed in 16:40:46 <Hirundo> Yexo: Is there any specific reason why RecolourSpriteAction extends RealSpriteAction? 16:40:52 * planetmaker sees a nice desync there, though 16:41:26 <Yexo> no 16:41:30 <Hirundo> Only thing I see is that both may have a sprite_num set by base_graphics 16:41:30 <frosch123> newgrfs cannot tell whether a sound is playing or not 16:42:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: when does it make 'moof' ? 16:42:51 <Yexo> when you zoom out :p 16:45:39 <planetmaker> :-) 16:51:15 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1846:9ef6563d95a1: Fix : Real sprite lists may contain unexpanded... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/9ef6563d95a1 17:05:04 <michi_cc> frosch123: OpenTTD does load recolour sprites permanently into the sprite cache (it didn't before). 17:05:49 <frosch123> so nml could very well put them not in the data section :) 17:08:21 <michi_cc> It even has to, as OpenTTD will fail otherwise currently. 17:09:23 <frosch123> what? does ottd have to load them permanently, or must recolour sprites not go into the data section? 17:09:40 <michi_cc> They must not go into the data section. 17:10:09 <frosch123> eugh... so what does grfcodec do with them? 17:10:17 <Yexo> now I wonder how grfcodec handles that 17:10:36 <michi_cc> Oh, sorry, no of course they must not go into the sprite section :) 17:11:07 <michi_cc> Recolour sprites are pseudo-sprites and go where all other pseudo-sprites go. 17:12:47 <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r906 to r914 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec/nightlies/r914 17:18:49 <Brot6> nml: update from r1834 to r1846 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1846 17:20:09 <Yexo> so how does openttd handle them? 17:25:04 <frosch123> michi said, they are loaded permanently into the spritecache when loading the grf 17:25:28 <frosch123> so, the data section can be made compressed 17:36:48 <michi_cc> Yes. Everything in the data section is loaded on the spot, and everything in the sprite section (currently real sprites and sounds) is loaded on-demand. 17:37:35 <Hirundo> so zooming in for the first time can create a noticeable lag? 17:38:17 <michi_cc> No, as OpenTTD loads all zoom levels at the same time. Scrolling could though in theory. 17:38:54 <michi_cc> Zooming out also, because there might be lots of not loaded sprites previously not visible. 18:06:35 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3719 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3719 18:06:35 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3719 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3719#change-9792 18:07:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3722 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3722 18:07:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3722 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3722#change-9793 18:10:56 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3729: Snow issues (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3729#change-9794 18:50:32 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3729: Snow issues (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3729#change-9795 19:01:54 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3729: Snow issues (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3729#change-9796 19:07:11 <planetmaker> Ammler, I guess with the 32bpp sprites we might want to up the attachment size for the DevZone 19:07:26 <planetmaker> According to Jupix it'll need something like 10MB+ 19:13:09 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 294:6ff07ca3424c: Codechange: various docs and other things (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/6ff07ca3424c 19:15:14 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 915:24c7f0b56e46: Feature: support cargo-type 0x0A in Action3 Railtypes (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/24c7f0b56e46 19:30:47 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:31:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:36:59 <Rubidium> Yexo: oh, so the nml lz77 isn't a standard library (I assumed it was) 19:37:55 <Yexo> I wasn't able to find one at the time 19:39:36 <Rubidium> but that definitely makes the difference more interesting ;) 19:40:38 <Yexo> my first guess would be an off-by-one when encoding large sprites 19:40:57 <Yexo> it probably doesn't encode large transparant areas as efficient as possible 19:49:27 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 258:a6c84215f91a: Feature: finish old cargo wagons (issue #2951, issu... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/a6c84215f91a 19:49:27 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 259:63313261eae9: Feature: finish remaining cargo wagons (closes #295... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/63313261eae9 19:49:27 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 260:9199bdaae6ce: Change: use same running cost base and engine class... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrains/repository/revisions/9199bdaae6ce 19:49:31 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #2951 (Closed): Livery options (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2951#change-9797 19:49:34 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3345 (Closed): Vehicle properties (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3345#change-9798 20:22:07 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/nml_smaller_output.diff reduces the file size of nml slightly, though I still see differences in the compressor output for some reason 20:23:03 <Yexo> feel free to commit that :) 20:23:25 <Yexo> if you've set that up that is, I can commit it otherwise 20:25:28 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1847:e4d8d66f78ed: Codechange: reduce the file size of GRFs sligh... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/e4d8d66f78ed 20:26:06 <Rubidium> that's 51 of the 708 bytes difference for arctic 20:44:34 <Yexo> there is one difference I can spot in the lz77 code between nml and grfcoded: nml encodes a non-compressed chunk up to 128 bytes while grfcodec will stop at 127 bytes 20:45:57 <Rubidium> yup, though changing that doesn't change the size for arctic. It makes the file more equal to the grfcodec one 20:46:26 <Rubidium> it might be an improvement to use 128 bytes in grfcodec as well, but that'll be relatively insignificant I fear 20:46:36 <Yexo> yes 20:47:03 <Yexo> it only matters when there are either exactly 128 bytes in a block or 255+ bytes 20:47:05 <Yexo> both are unlikely 20:48:34 <Rubidium> exactly 20:48:52 <Rubidium> I've seen it at least twice in arctic though 20:49:57 <Rubidium> @base 16 10 9f 20:49:57 <Webster> Rubidium: 159 20:51:19 <Yexo> do you know on which sprites there is a difference? 20:51:47 <Rubidium> 158 20:51:55 <Rubidium> but they're differently encoded 20:52:02 <Rubidium> (or arctic) 20:52:42 <Rubidium> grfcodec is chunked, nml isn't 20:52:51 <Rubidium> grfcodec is 1 byte smaller than nml 20:53:10 <Rubidium> 0x289 vs 0x28a 20:56:17 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/diff.txt is the difference 20:57:01 <Rubidium> I've decoded and encoded with grfcodec this time without GRFCodec redetermining the best compression (so it uses NML's decided compression type) 20:57:25 <Yexo> I (accidentally) did that too, there is still a difference 20:57:53 <Yexo> hmm, seems to make no difference 20:58:34 <Yexo> sorry, flawed testing, it does make a difference 21:00:07 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740 (New): Can't compile grfcodec anymore (Snail) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740 21:00:39 <Rubidium> augmented the diff with the preceeding bytes from the begin of the sprite 21:04:50 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9799 21:05:24 <Rubidium> on the other hand, the first bit probably isn't a big problem as it's still the same size 21:12:11 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Revision 12:1c971e64cc20: Fix: #3735,... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/britrains/repository/revisions/1c971e64cc20 21:12:11 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Revision 13:c20887a52740: merge (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/britrains/repository/revisions/c20887a52740 21:12:11 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Bug #3735 (Closed): GRF isn't being c... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3735#change-9800 21:15:52 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (Snail) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9801 21:16:10 <Brot6> britrains: update from r11 to r13 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/britrains/push/r13 21:17:53 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Revision 14:b0f01521281b: Fix: 390 sp... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/britrains/repository/revisions/b0f01521281b 21:21:09 <Brot6> britrains: update from r13 to r14 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/britrains/push/r14 21:28:07 <Yexo> the difference is not in lz77 but in the tile (chunked) encoding part 21:28:15 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Revision 15:5480a05f5cf3: Fix: remove... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/britrains/repository/revisions/5480a05f5cf3 21:28:58 <Yexo> nml takes a shortcut that leads to problems with sprites that have a (large) transparent area in the middle of a line (between non-transparant pixels) 21:29:56 <Rubidium> yup 21:30:39 <Rubidium> (or at least, it's the chunked encoding that's different) 21:30:41 <Yexo> does grfcodec -n -g 1 work properly with very wide sprites? 21:30:56 <Yexo> my guess it is errors out in encodetile 21:31:06 <Yexo> sprites.cpp:690 21:31:19 <Rubidium> I guess that might fail yes 21:32:10 <Brot6> britrains: update from r14 to r15 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/britrains/push/r15 21:35:23 <Rubidium> but if it's a shortcut in the tile encoding, then you more or less know about it and I won't dig deeper 21:35:37 <Yexo> that's fine :) 21:36:09 <andythenorth> 'colour' or 'color' ? 21:36:15 <Yexo> for specific sprites it can also be an improvement 21:36:18 <andythenorth> or avoid the issue, and call it 'hue' ? 21:36:25 <andythenorth> for variable and method and class names 21:36:30 <Yexo> I have a testcase now where nml performs better than grfcodec 21:36:34 <Rubidium> andythenorth: you're british, right? 21:36:44 <Yexo> so it's a "shortcut" that can optimize in certain cases 21:36:44 <Rubidium> so colour ;) 21:37:01 <andythenorth> recolor sprites though :P 21:38:02 <Yexo> tile compression is basically: for each line: skip transparant parts, encode normal parts, after that compress using lz77 21:38:39 <Yexo> nml skips the transparant parts at the beginning and end of a line and always encodes the part in the middle normally, grfcoded encodes all parts seperately 21:39:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: ottd uses BE consistently, that's why the blitter are called 32/8bpp-optimized :p 21:39:09 <Yexo> so if there is a single transparant pixel in the middle nml is more efficient (lower overhead), while if there is a larger transparant block grfcodec is more efficient 21:39:40 <andythenorth> I could duck the issue and use 'col', but my brain parses it as 'column' 21:39:55 <Yexo> I don't think there is an easy way to determine the best way to encode 21:40:25 <Rubidium> how much overhead is there in encoding transparency? 21:40:27 <Yexo> probably something hardcoded like "<=3 transparant pixels: just encode it, >3 pixels: skip it" is the best achievable solution 21:40:55 <Yexo> 2 bytes (or 4 for long chunks) 21:41:32 <Yexo> but there is a maximum to the length of each chunk, so if you have to split it up anyway you better do so at a transparant pixel (if possible) 21:42:09 <Yexo> but then: all this is done before lz77 compression, so even if it might be one byte less in some line it can lead to worse compression later on 21:42:12 <Rubidium> oh... TMWFTLB ;) 21:42:33 <Yexo> yep :) 21:43:00 <Yexo> I'll probably try to change NML's code to work exactly like grfcodec, just to verify after that they do exactly the same 21:45:37 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #3741 (New): Tile (=chunked) compression (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3741 21:46:04 <Yexo> thanks for your work Rubidium, identifying sprite 158 in opengfx arctic made it a lot easier to find 21:47:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:48:13 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Revision 16:7033afbdc0aa: Fix: #3735,... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/britrains/repository/revisions/7033afbdc0aa 21:51:53 <Brot6> Britrains (Python Scripted British Train Set for Openttd) - Bug #3742 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3742 22:01:04 * andythenorth writes a kind of unit test 22:01:07 <andythenorth> how quaint 22:01:19 <andythenorth> more of a guard than a unit test tbh 22:01:32 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9802 22:01:48 * Rubidium pokes planetmaker to see whether he can confirm #3740 22:01:48 <Brot6> Rubidium: #3740 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3740 "GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 22:02:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium, no, I can't 22:03:09 <planetmaker> I basically asked the questions you asked. And upon "reply" you answered already 22:05:52 <planetmaker> Even though I have even the same minor version of the OS as he does. 22:06:46 <andythenorth> I should try? 22:07:02 <planetmaker> if you care. Might be interesting 22:07:12 <planetmaker> did you do so before? I guess... 22:07:23 <andythenorth> I have 10.6.8 22:07:25 <andythenorth> so not same 22:07:29 <planetmaker> not? 22:07:29 * andythenorth tries anyway 22:07:41 <andythenorth> oops 22:07:48 <andythenorth> I read 10.6.6 for snail 22:07:54 <andythenorth> eyes need testing 22:09:08 <andythenorth> I did 'make clean' then 'time make all' 22:09:13 <andythenorth> builds fine, 31s 22:09:37 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (Snail) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9803 22:09:51 <andythenorth> I have r915 grfcodec 22:12:15 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1840:2a349d7c0ed4: Fix: Rename all occurences of 'base_sprites' t... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/2a349d7c0ed4 22:12:15 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9804 22:13:24 <Rubidium> thanks for confirming it isn't just Mac OS X gone haywire in general ;) 22:13:44 <Rubidium> but it basically means: unreproducable and unsolveable 22:13:49 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 295:c88747eb9c19: Codechange: refactor some names, add start of sequence and se... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/c88747eb9c19 22:13:49 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 296:8c9e0892c176: Codechange: remove apparently unneeded list (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/8c9e0892c176 22:13:49 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 297:48416bbc0db8: Codechange: PixaSequenceCollection and PixaMixer basically no... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/48416bbc0db8 22:13:51 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 298:c9c2a1bb5e3d: Codechange: do a little towards making coloursets work (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/c9c2a1bb5e3d 22:14:09 * andythenorth got into a coding mood 22:14:13 <andythenorth> but is now in bed mood 22:14:16 <Rubidium> so about the right time to do lots in the third dimension 22:14:52 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Bug #3740: Can't compile grfcodec anymore (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3740#change-9805 22:15:47 * andythenorth wonders if this code will look stupid in the morning 22:15:56 <andythenorth> passing around custom functions with options dicts :P 22:16:17 * andythenorth wonders if anyone will ever need a custom colour-transform 22:16:32 * andythenorth goes to sleep 22:16:33 <andythenorth> bye 22:16:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:22:42 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1848:2f938e394c73: Feature #3712: Allow outputting multiple sprit... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/2f938e394c73 22:22:42 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1849:28e1c7341776: Feature #3712: Store zoom level and bit depth ... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/28e1c7341776 22:22:42 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1851:92fe8b5bce03: Cleanup: Remove some dead code. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/92fe8b5bce03 22:22:43 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1850:6e9e4aec6875: Add: Some (quite useless) alternative sprites ... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/6e9e4aec6875 22:22:47 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1852:d2cd444671d3: Feature(tte): Labels for recolour sprites, as ... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/d2cd444671d3 22:22:51 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1853:f3830bb211d9: Codechange: Don't make RecolourSpriteAction in... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/f3830bb211d9 22:23:47 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #3712: New 32 bpp format (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3712#change-9806 22:24:31 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #3712: New 32 bpp format (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3712#change-9807 22:24:48 <Hirundo> Yexo: Almost done... 22:24:56 <Yexo> great :) 22:25:06 <Yexo> some code to read in the train tomorrow :) 22:25:09 <Yexo> good night 22:25:18 <Hirundo> goodnight 22:29:22 <planetmaker> nice, Hirundo 22:33:38 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:18:20 *** JVassie has quit IRC 23:39:37 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 648:ea7bb5958094: some incomplete and probably wrong attemp... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/ea7bb5958094 23:39:37 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 649:cce232900d6a: misc tracking table updates that somebody... (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/cce232900d6a 23:44:16 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Bug #3743 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3743 23:56:06 <Hirundo> ^^ It's quite possible that NML contains errors at this point, please file a bug report if you think you found any