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00:02:22 <Brot6> Japanese Buildings - Code Review #3849: Building texts (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3849#change-10119 00:37:55 *** Zuu has quit IRC 06:39:36 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:08:10 *** JVassie has quit IRC 07:51:16 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:57:44 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 07:59:32 *** Rubidium has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:14:04 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/dutchtracks registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/dutchtracks 08:14:04 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/dutchtracks created 08:37:55 *** Zuu has quit IRC 08:52:56 *** th_gergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:15:00 *** th_gergo has quit IRC 09:21:05 *** th_gergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:36:18 *** th_gergo has quit IRC 11:51:04 *** th_gergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:22:37 *** th_gergo has quit IRC 12:31:29 *** Nat_aS has quit IRC 12:31:43 *** Nat_aS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:36:03 *** th_gergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:00:50 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 13:45:52 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:12:04 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Support #3801: Sprite templating instructions (Transportman) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3801#change-10120 15:13:53 *** th_gergo has quit IRC 15:14:49 *** th_gergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:21:53 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Bug #3851 (New): DE5 Template+Depot (Transportman) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3851 15:22:52 *** th_gergo has quit IRC 15:53:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:26:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:34:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:17:27 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:22:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:22:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:28:28 <Brot6> britrains: update from r26 to r27 done (5 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/britrains/nightlies/r27 17:29:20 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10121 17:31:27 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10121 17:32:00 <Brot6> make-nml: compile of r0 still failed (#3730) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/make-nml/nightlies/ERROR/r0 17:35:57 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10122 17:36:31 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10122 17:40:17 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:46:57 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10123 17:53:19 <andythenorth> ^ it's a GPL violation, it won't pass 17:53:38 <andythenorth> the resulting pixels exist in the same shared program space as the code 17:53:51 <andythenorth> it has nothing to do with libraries, and the claim for exception is meaningless 17:54:28 <andythenorth> it's a pretty unimaginative GPL avoidance tactic 17:55:15 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10124 17:55:41 <planetmaker> my point 17:56:19 <andythenorth> if it was valid as oberhuemer wishes to interpret it, it could basically be used to avoid GPL by anyone who wanted 17:56:31 <andythenorth> you'd be able to compile anything you wanted alongside GPL code and avoid GPL 17:56:45 <michi_cc> It's not a license violation in any sense though, if all copyright holders agree. In that case it's imply a dual-licensed piece of code. 17:57:13 <planetmaker> if feels very wrong to me, michi_cc 17:57:19 <michi_cc> It *is* a violation if a copyright holders doesn't agree. 17:58:05 * andythenorth ponders 17:58:11 <andythenorth> it's a violation of GPL in the pathological case that they continue to distribute CETS under GPL 17:58:19 <andythenorth> but +1 to the dual license point ;) 17:58:34 <michi_cc> I wouldn't agree either, but I'm not a copyright holder of that part of CETS. Anyway, morally right or wrong, it would be legal. 17:58:38 <Ammler> planetmaker: I would disagree to host such stuff here 17:59:03 <andythenorth> hmm 17:59:08 <andythenorth> maybe I misunderstand the intent 17:59:24 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Not even then, GPL doesn't (and can't) forbid somebody from offering a piece of work under an additional license. 17:59:24 <planetmaker> well, I don't have a stake in graphics. But CETS has a license as a whole... not sure that can be changed 17:59:55 <Ammler> why not, it needs the permission of the authors 18:00:12 <andythenorth> michi_cc: under additional license, fine. But it would have to drop GPL at that point. But I think I misunderstand the intention 18:00:13 <andythenorth> this exception would allow for taking CETS code, and compiling it yourself with graphics derived from 3D models 18:00:19 <planetmaker> It would 18:00:23 <andythenorth> this isn't about taking 3D models and using them for sets 18:00:32 <andythenorth> cets /s 18:00:45 <planetmaker> That's, I think, the whole point 18:01:01 <michi_cc> No, this is about a second license for the python code of CETS that is not GPL. Completely legal, but not something I would support. 18:01:13 <Ammler> andythenorth: and without the exception, you wouldn't be allowed to build? :-o 18:01:25 <andythenorth> Ammler: you would be allowed to build of course 18:01:27 <andythenorth> but not distribute 18:01:38 <andythenorth> this permits distribution too 18:01:45 <andythenorth> it's probably fine actually 18:02:01 <Ammler> hmm 18:02:05 <Ammler> I don't get it 18:02:19 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception 18:02:20 <Webster> Title: GPL linking exception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 18:02:25 <andythenorth> it's just a linking exception 18:02:33 <andythenorth> it declares CETS python code to be a reusable library 18:02:43 <andythenorth> it's quite correct application 18:03:04 <planetmaker> remove my makefile parts from that ;-) 18:03:20 <Ammler> means, you could use cets code on a non-gpl project? 18:03:34 <andythenorth> yes 18:03:34 <Ammler> ah, that I don't care 18:03:40 <andythenorth> and distribute it 18:03:48 <andythenorth> thereby severing the virality of gpl 18:03:50 <Ammler> or rahter, that is not my buissness 18:04:04 <planetmaker> a license change like that probably would allow that. And as the implications are... at least very fuzzy 18:04:46 <andythenorth> the complicated bit is the attempt to preserve GPL for part of the code 18:04:56 <planetmaker> I don't see any need to re-license any of my work under anything different than GPL currently 18:04:56 <andythenorth> the library exception examples *don't* do that 18:05:13 <andythenorth> trying to preserve GPL in a non-GPL context is maybe viable, but a bit of a cluster fuck really 18:05:21 <planetmaker> ^^ 18:05:52 <planetmaker> Adding such exception here, that's the wrong path to go IMHO 18:06:50 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Support #3791: GPL exception for graphics from 3D models (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3791#change-10124 18:06:56 <planetmaker> and anyway... unless I say 'yes', non of my work can be re-licensed ;-) Other people's work is not in my hands 18:07:39 <andythenorth> it basically lands a complexity bomb on people downstream 18:07:47 <andythenorth> so I take sets and make set 'A' 18:08:02 <andythenorth> which is now a mix of GPL, and 13 different 3D model licenses 18:08:16 <andythenorth> now Bob wants to distribute. Does Bob have rights to do that? 18:08:28 <Ammler> andythenorth: so basically with that exception, it could be used to make the locomotion 32bpp set and license that with ND, right? 18:08:32 <andythenorth> now Sue wants to modify A and produce B. Does sue have rights to that? 18:08:45 <andythenorth> if Sue figures it out and produces B, can she distribute? 18:08:48 <andythenorth> and so on :P 18:08:54 <andythenorth> GPL avoids all this crap 18:09:01 <andythenorth> Ammler: yes 18:09:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, exactly that's the main reason I don't like it. It is bound to create more headaches than I'm ready to have. Downstream 18:09:18 <andythenorth> except...you'd have to comply with the GPL for the code part, but GPL doesn't allow that 18:10:05 <andythenorth> it's basically a bad idea :P 18:10:08 <planetmaker> actually not Locomotion, but the models for MS Trains simulator 18:10:25 <planetmaker> which IllegalAlien has special permission to create sprites from 18:10:39 <andythenorth> it gains nothing except headaches 18:10:50 <planetmaker> And this would be the same thing, just OpenTTD instead of Locomotion 18:10:52 <andythenorth> the correct solution is simply to dual license, 18:11:00 <planetmaker> But... I don't want Locomotion license headaches here 18:12:11 <Ammler> I am fine to host duallicend stuff for existing things, but I would not support new projects with something else as GPLv2+ 18:12:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:12:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:13:45 <Ammler> and since we got donations for the hosting, we should even more care, that the hosted stuff can be reused 18:16:04 <andythenorth> so tell him it's against devzone policy 18:16:10 <andythenorth> GPL or bust 18:16:48 <andythenorth> don't engage in to or fro, it's just policy 18:16:51 <andythenorth> :) 18:16:55 <Ammler> hehe, that is not up to me, I just would not support it :-P 18:17:11 <andythenorth> well who is in charge of devzone? 18:17:28 <Ammler> the community :-) 18:17:29 <andythenorth> don't tell me it's community managed :P 18:17:36 <Ammler> :-D 18:18:24 <Ammler> well, one thing is special, if you don't use a license for your stuff, it is GPL, not sure, if that is legal 18:18:44 <andythenorth> that's according to terms of use? 18:18:54 <andythenorth> just enforce GPL and be done with it 18:18:56 <andythenorth> :P 18:19:01 <Ammler> yes, written on the frontpage http://dev.openttdcoop.org 18:19:02 <andythenorth> send detractors to me, or /dev/null 18:19:04 <planetmaker> That's the TOS of devzone, yes 18:20:20 <andythenorth> who are the named administrators of the service? 18:21:04 <planetmaker> of devzone? Ammler, Yexo, me 18:21:19 <andythenorth> how many of you constitutes a quorum for decision making? 18:21:24 <andythenorth> 1? 2? 3? 18:21:28 <Ammler> 1 18:21:31 <planetmaker> :-P 18:21:34 <Ammler> I do something 18:21:39 <andythenorth> there you go then 18:21:45 <Ammler> and maybe planetmaker devotes :-) 18:21:47 <andythenorth> other licenses only by decision of devzone admin 18:22:04 <andythenorth> you even have all the boring bueureaeacaacracy in place already 18:22:13 * andythenorth can't spell that word, and dislikes it a lot 18:22:13 <Ammler> or pm does something and I (dis)agree 18:22:22 <planetmaker> :-D 18:22:48 * andythenorth -> bathing baby 18:22:57 * planetmaker -> dinner 18:22:58 <andythenorth> I'd tell OH flat no btw 18:23:09 <planetmaker> I did ;-) 18:23:35 <andythenorth> "GPL or bust" 18:23:37 <andythenorth> ;) 18:24:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:24:37 <Ammler> I like the idea to "force" the community to make gpl stuff 18:25:13 <Ammler> it is so ugly on a lot other communities where arthists are so selfish and pitty with their stuff 18:26:06 <Ammler> it might be ok for "mods" to proprietary stuff 19:12:54 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:20:05 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:27:55 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:40:37 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:45:55 <Brot6> Dutch Track Set - Revision 0:5222eecdb0fd: Init: set up repo (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtracks/repository/revisions/5222eecdb0fd 19:55:09 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Code Review #3852 (New): sprite offsets (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3852 21:32:19 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:46:59 <Yexo> a few hours late, but my view on the subject: if whoever wants to have their project be non-GPL, that's no problem at all, just not on the devzone 21:47:40 <Yexo> Everyone should be free to make their own choice, I don't see it as particularly bad that people want another license 21:47:53 <Yexo> that doesn't mean I'm going to help code for them or provide services when they do 21:48:08 <Yexo> and they can't reuse my code, but that's their choice 21:51:12 <Yexo> planetmaker: do you have time soon to take a look at the graphics/code that GeekToo posted (the ground tiles)? 21:51:42 <Yexo> if not I'll start working on it, but it'll take a few days and I'd like to avoid a duplication of efforts 21:51:59 <Yexo> but neither do I want to have them wait a long time after the offer to code available sprites 21:56:42 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:57:11 <planetmaker> I didn't notice yet - where is that code? 22:01:59 <planetmaker> ah... tt-forums 22:03:18 <planetmaker> I guess that can be added to ogfx+landscape as-is. 22:03:31 <planetmaker> except the emtpy 8bpp normal zoom ;-) 22:04:55 <Yexo> it needs to be looked at properly to see if those groundsprites are out of bounds 22:05:08 <Yexo> and if so, if that leads to any problems 22:05:59 <planetmaker> you if they are larger than a ground sprite actually should be? 22:06:46 <Yexo> sorry? 22:08:26 <planetmaker> :-) Let's put it as a question: what exactly do you mean with 'out of bounds'? 22:08:36 <planetmaker> dimensions unsuitable for a ground tile? 22:08:47 <Yexo> aren't those the sprites with grass that goes over the tile edges? 22:08:56 <planetmaker> it does not look like that 22:09:01 <Yexo> ok, great :) 22:09:21 <planetmaker> from the screenshot at least. But yes, if I see those, I won't use them 22:11:16 <planetmaker> hm, what was the syntax to assign a block name to a basesprite? 22:11:28 <Yexo> basesprite name (num...) ? 22:11:28 <frosch123> just cut the top edge and paste it at the bottom :) 22:11:53 <planetmaker> ah, nvm. yes 22:12:03 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. But I'd leave that to the artist ;-) 22:14:03 <planetmaker> hm... I really hate all those sprites being each in a separate file :-( 22:14:10 <planetmaker> makes templating a real PITA 22:16:26 <Yexo> you can put the filename in the template 22:16:59 <planetmaker> for a ground tile I'd like to use one template for all 19 :-) 22:17:14 <planetmaker> but yes, I can make 19 parameters to that template... 22:17:25 <planetmaker> but meh :-) 22:17:56 <Yexo> template (first_sprite) { [..., "path/to/sprite_" + (first_sprite + 0) + ".png"] [...., "path/to/sprite_" + (first_sprite + 1) + ".png"] ...} ? 22:18:29 <planetmaker> lol, that works? 22:18:41 <Yexo> probably not :p 22:19:08 <Yexo> it'll need a new builtin function to convert a compile-time number to a string 22:19:34 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:19:44 <Yexo> or implementing of str+int addition 22:21:59 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1250/ <-- I guess, in principle one could create a ground template which incorporates the zoom level as parameter which is used as multiplicator... 22:22:25 <planetmaker> but maybe not :-) 22:22:30 <planetmaker> too wide 22:23:01 <Yexo> good night 22:23:23 <planetmaker> g'night, Yexo 22:31:56 *** LordAro has quit IRC 22:36:27 <planetmaker> hm... looking at the offsets, though, Yexo, your fear wrt them might have been right... 23:06:41 *** JVassie has quit IRC 23:43:22 <Zuu> If that's plain python code you could do str(number) + "string". But I guess it's more complicated than that. 23:56:04 *** Zuu has quit IRC