Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 31st May 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
06:30:25  *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:03:48  <Xotic750> planetmaker: I seem unable to get the articulation working with the ginzua4 when I run the graphics code in your conditional block, any ideas?
07:30:09  *** Zuu has quit IRC
08:00:24  <planetmaker> Xotic750: how do you add the graphics?
08:00:45  <planetmaker> Currently there's a callback for articulation which always fails. Nothing more
08:01:21  <planetmaker> And there's also no tender vehicle yet defined
08:08:20  <planetmaker> Xotic750: what basically is needed: definition of a new vehicle (tender as wagon) which then can be added to the engine as articulated part in the articulated_vehicle callback
08:09:22  <Xotic750> The current code that I uploaded is working but only if I put it in the main graphics block, it was just a test
08:09:32  <planetmaker> please paste a patch so that I can understand the code background of your question :-)
08:09:49  <planetmaker> that might be true and a bug in what I did
08:10:35  <planetmaker> but it must not be in the main block unconditionally. Or we'll always have articulated vehicles
08:11:43  <Xotic750> yes, I know, just put it there while testing
08:11:44  <Xotic750>
08:12:05  <Xotic750> wanted to make sure it worked in the main block
08:13:20  <planetmaker> you don't want to change the length, too?
08:14:06  <Xotic750> yes, I probably deleted it by accident when I playing around with it
08:14:20  <planetmaker> I rather mean: why change length?
08:14:43  <planetmaker> The engine doesn't need it...
08:15:02  <Xotic750> because the articulated part is 4/8
08:15:46  <planetmaker> :-) That's not how articulation works
08:15:46  <planetmaker> can you give me the full diff of what you have?
08:15:56  <planetmaker> Or that's not how I'd want to make it work here. The tender is a separate vehicle
08:16:24  <Xotic750> that's how the articulation example is in the wiki :/
08:16:57  <planetmaker> well. Yes. It makes sense for the tram where all parts are the same. But not here
08:17:21  <planetmaker> Please give me the code and I'll create from it how I think it should work
08:17:37  <planetmaker> (mostly I need the graphics)
08:17:39  <Xotic750> the code is in the repo
08:17:44  <Xotic750> I uploaded it
08:17:54  <Xotic750> while moving between machines
08:17:54  <planetmaker> err... commited with "doesn't work"?
08:18:00  <planetmaker> :-(
08:18:16  <planetmaker> Yes, I download repo now for 15 minutes...
08:18:35  <planetmaker> Please don't commit "just testing" code
08:18:42  <planetmaker> that's not what the repo is for
08:18:54  <Xotic750> would you prefer that I create a branch, as I need to be in different locations
08:19:12  <planetmaker> The repo should always build a working grf.
08:19:17  <Xotic750> it does
08:19:30  <Xotic750> it's not broken at the moment
08:19:43  <planetmaker> But ... ?
08:20:14  <Xotic750> but it's not correct
08:20:34  <planetmaker> I use patches for that and commit only when I know it works
08:20:54  <planetmaker> no need to put "I tried this" and "I tried that" in the official repo
08:21:32  <planetmaker> when I know that it doesn't work ;-)
08:22:16  <planetmaker> about branches... one *could* do that. But still not sure
08:22:45  <Xotic750> I need some easy way to transport between machines
08:23:04  <Xotic750> and you can't diff everything that I'm working with, some is binary
08:23:08  <Xotic750> and big
08:23:12  *** Nat_aS is now known as Nat_AFK
08:23:24  <planetmaker> yes... I'm still pulling the repo
08:24:19  <Xotic750> and I just reworked all the blender templates, so it has reduced the size of the raw graphics by 20%
08:25:08  <Xotic750> aswell as making my life much easier with how it now works :)
08:25:15  <planetmaker> great :-)
08:25:36  <Xotic750> I will be able to create models even faster now
08:25:57  <Xotic750> as I don't have to edit lots of text in blender for file output
08:26:08  <Xotic750> that was a real killer
08:26:22  <Xotic750> but it mean't a big reshuffle
08:26:25  <planetmaker> 30000 files changed...
08:27:15  <Xotic750> yep, difficult to send that between machines in a diff :)
08:27:40  <planetmaker> ssh?
08:27:47  <planetmaker> and scp?
08:28:23  <Xotic750> no direct access between machines, would have to put it on the render server or something first then to the other
08:28:36  <Xotic750> not a nice way of working
08:28:57  <planetmaker> it'd not be really different, would it?
08:29:13  <planetmaker> render server and repo server are the same machine ;-)
08:30:21  <Xotic750> I think it would be a lot of extra work for me, I use upto 4 different machines, a minimum of 2 a day
08:30:44  <Xotic750> using git or mercurial saves me a headache
08:33:03  <planetmaker> finally finished
08:33:06  <planetmaker> downloading
08:33:58  <planetmaker> <-- but commits like that are ugly and break the grf. As already the commit message says
08:35:37  <Xotic750> that's another issue that needs dealing with actually
08:36:12  <Xotic750> the 8bpp early wagons are full length
08:36:30  <Xotic750> we are going to use 3/4 or 1/2 length
08:36:46  <Xotic750> to post 32bpp I need 8bpp present, in the same size
08:37:15  <planetmaker> yes. exactly.
08:38:32  <planetmaker> so we should not add them to the game unless we have 8bpp
08:38:45  <Xotic750> so, I am ready with 1/2 length wagons but we have no 8bpp sprites. Soon I will be ready with 3/4 length and again we have no 8bpp
08:39:01  <Xotic750> the same with the steam engines
08:39:15  <Xotic750> they are short vehicles
08:39:25  <Xotic750> but in 8bpp they have been done in full length
08:40:17  <Xotic750> and have huge gaps between them when multiple units
08:41:12  <Xotic750> in my rework, I have also now finished my 8bpp post-processing and so have fully working 8bpp and 32bpp sprites available, rendered of course
08:41:32  <planetmaker> ehm... The existing engines. They must not change lenght. They shall remain full length
08:41:50  <planetmaker> That is also all existing steam engines
08:42:21  <planetmaker> I've been talking 6/8 and maybe 4/8 length for yet-to-be created completely new vehicles
08:42:32  <planetmaker> Not for the existing ginzu, kirby paul etc
08:42:39  <planetmaker> nor for the existing wagons
08:42:41  <Xotic750> then I will need to draw them full size, not like they are represented now in 8bpp
08:42:51  <planetmaker> hu?
08:43:44  <Xotic750> put a double headed kirby paul in front of wagons and you have a huge gap between the engines
08:43:57  <Xotic750> because they are using full size
08:44:09  <Xotic750> but are draw to be 6/8 or 5/8
08:44:13  <planetmaker> <-- basically what this commit does wrt length is IMHO completely wrong. Length does not vary for the early and modern wagon. As the "early" wagon as is now, is just a wagon found in around 1950 or so
08:44:46  <planetmaker> yes, that's another issue. But that's an issue with the 8bpp sprite of the kirby paul
08:45:51  <planetmaker> One *could* declare it a shortened engine. But honestly, I'd like to refrain from changing the default vehicles to become quite unrecognizable the 'defaults'
08:46:36  <planetmaker> But you're right, the kirby paul (and possibly one, two other steamers) have such issue
08:46:46  <Xotic750> sure, the wagon I am using is much much earlier, it is just there to show what is happening, to allow me to get the templates done
08:47:13  <Xotic750> I'm not intending to leave it like that of course :)
08:47:49  <Xotic750> but when we last talked about early wagons, we said we wanted 6/8 length for them
08:48:14  <planetmaker> yes. Early. As in yet unexisting wagons. The set had no early wagons so far
08:48:46  <planetmaker> granted, it's a bit confusing. The code talks of 'early' already. But that's not the really early I meant there
08:48:55  <planetmaker> that is just 1st and 2nd generation of the modern wagons
08:49:05  <planetmaker> with slightly different liveries
08:49:34  <planetmaker> early wagons should be available from 1870. Not from 1930 or so
08:50:12  <planetmaker> looking at the length changes added in places... and the many template changes... I'm not sure it's now somewhat totally broken :S
08:50:39  <planetmaker> for one or the other blitter and wagon generation...
08:50:46  <Xotic750> no, it's not
08:51:01  <Xotic750> it is easy top remove the sprites and put it back
08:51:22  <Xotic750> but the templates are ready for 1/2 length wagons
08:53:06  <Xotic750> there are only 2 changes that make any difference, 1 is in bulk wagons and the other is in ginzua4
08:54:37  <Xotic750> ok, so moving forward, the steamers will be drawn at full vehicle length in 32bpp
08:55:23  <Xotic750> the "early" wagons that you have in place now, will be modern wagons at full length but with a change of livery or some small details
08:55:57  <Xotic750> we will create very very early wagon set, but we have no 8bpp graphics for it
08:56:25  <Xotic750> we will create a very early wagon set (3/4) but we have no 8bpp graphics for it
08:57:05  <Xotic750> I will revert the 1 bulk wagon that I changed for testing back
08:57:45  <Xotic750> and hopefully you can show me how you want to implement the tender, rather than the way that I have demonstrated
08:58:01  <Xotic750> and we also need 8bpp tender graphics
09:01:55  <planetmaker> yes, we do
09:02:47  <planetmaker> Basically all 'yes'
09:03:06  <Xotic750> also, I need a way to backup and transport my WIP
09:03:26  <planetmaker> But maybe should take a step back, create a short list of rolling stock. note what exists and what needs doing. As to get a concept we (and also others) can look at?
09:03:58  <Xotic750> I have a list of all 32bpp works
09:04:10  <Xotic750> but not all 8bpp
09:04:22  <planetmaker> well. somewhat. But rather a planning document of what we want. How we want it
09:04:38  <planetmaker> something which one can show. Or possibly even put in the readme (later) slightly modified
09:04:39  <Xotic750> yes, that would help
09:05:01  <planetmaker> if we had have that we could have avoided this mis-understanding, I guess :-)
09:05:48  <Xotic750> it was not a fatal mis-understanding
09:05:50  <Xotic750> :)
09:05:59  <Xotic750> and no wasted work
09:06:51  <Xotic750> glad I found out about the steamer length before drawing them though :)
09:08:25  <Xotic750> if you are really intending to keep the 8bpp work as pixel art, we really need to get some people on board
09:08:42  <Xotic750> as I will be knocking out 32bpp sprites pretty damn fast
09:09:30  <Xotic750> but none can be used without the 8bpp
09:10:27  <Xotic750> maglev wagons will be done within a week or so
09:10:45  <planetmaker> I'd like to keep 8bpp as pixel art and getting some people abord to draw that would be cool. Of course as long as we don't have that... we use the rendered 8bpp
09:10:46  <Xotic750> and then it's just trains to do
09:11:44  <Xotic750> the 8bpp rendered will be fully workable after this next render and processing run
09:12:34  <Xotic750> and I just need to add the rendered 8bpp templates
09:12:45  <Xotic750> to the nml
09:13:09  <planetmaker> one request: when you add defines: please separate different #defines by at least one blank line. It's very hard to read otherwise
09:13:26  <planetmaker> and would be nice to see them commented as to their use :-)
09:13:37  <Xotic750> I can do that
09:13:42  <planetmaker> when there's similar ones
09:13:59  <planetmaker> I know that I also often fail(ed) on comments ;-)
09:14:33  <planetmaker> things tend to be much clearer if its only the own thoughts which one has to follow ;-)
09:14:59  <Xotic750> indeed :)
09:24:51  <planetmaker> I'm trying to add the tender now to the ginzu
09:26:00  <planetmaker> I actually wonder... what's the difference between ENGINE_GRAPHICS_GROUP_XXX and WAGON_GRAPHICS_GROUP_XXX ?
09:26:07  <planetmaker> couldn't that be unified?
09:26:45  <planetmaker> Hm... probably the year switch between 1st gen and 2nd gen :-)
09:28:20  <Xotic750> some of the templates share common code, but I don't know if you can use templates (or macros) within templates?
09:29:43  <Xotic750> I mean the #defines
09:29:50  *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
09:29:59  <Xotic750> whatever you want ot call them?
09:31:09  <Xotic750> perhaps it's even best to have them fully written out, like they are
09:31:23  <Xotic750> in case another macro changes for some reason
09:32:47  <planetmaker> In principle you can nest them. It gets messy pretty quickly, though
09:33:17  <planetmaker> Actually I got away from using #defines as they are used in this set. But changing that... meh. Work without much gain, I fear
09:33:45  <planetmaker> The FIRS way to use #include of the proper template works better as it's nicer readabile. IMHO
09:35:38  <Xotic750> well, they work as they are and they still make it easier to read
09:36:28  <Xotic750> provided you know which file to look in :)
09:36:35  <planetmaker> exactly
09:36:48  <planetmaker> with an explicit include that is clear :-)
09:37:05  <planetmaker> and you also avoid the ugly use of the many \
09:37:20  <planetmaker> which results in HUGE one-line statements which are a PITA to debug
09:37:34  <Xotic750> yeah, that is not nice
09:39:15  <Xotic750> would it be a huge amount of work to change?
09:39:16  <planetmaker> what code (template) do I need to write to get the tender sprites into the game as a separate vehicle?
09:39:32  <planetmaker> i.e. what's the graphics file which provides them?
09:39:37  <Xotic750> 1 sec
09:40:12  <Xotic750> as a wagon or train?
09:40:45  <planetmaker> it's the same file as the engine, right?
09:40:56  <planetmaker> as wagon, basically
09:41:20  <Xotic750> MU_8SPRITES_32BPP(tank_wagon_default_temperate, "tank", "src/gfx/tank/rail_oil_temperate.png", tmpl_railwagon42, 0, 0) // 8 views needed
09:41:23  <Xotic750> should work
09:42:14  <Xotic750> and "tank" will be "ginzua4_tender"
09:42:14  <planetmaker> I think I see it, yes
09:45:07  <Xotic750> and you can just revery engine_ginzu.pnl to the previous
09:46:07  <planetmaker> hm... brot announces no commits anymore
09:46:15  <Xotic750> nope
09:46:19  <planetmaker> brot is not here it seems
09:46:20  <planetmaker> Ammler: ^
09:46:33  <Xotic750> and the nightly is broken due to disk quota
09:46:48  <planetmaker> I committed somewhat a reversal already. Now the tender though. Yeah, saw / read that. But had no time so far
09:47:07  <planetmaker> and Ammler knows much better how to change disk quotas of the CF build :-)
09:47:15  <planetmaker> Ammler: brot disappeared
09:54:57  <Xotic750> just thought, if you wanted a template for 1/2 length wagon (for the tender), it doesn't exist as a stand alone yet
09:55:24  <Xotic750> and you will need to look at WAGON_BULK_EARLY_32BPP
09:56:55  <planetmaker> yes, I need a 1/2 length template
09:57:00  <planetmaker> I'll see
09:57:46  <Xotic750> or copy MU_8SPRITES_32BPP and change the sprite templates to be template_short_train_opengfxp32 and template_short_train_gui_opengfxp32
10:08:52  <planetmaker> I guess I'll just extract the tender template from the combined template
10:09:02  <planetmaker> that should do the trick
10:11:41  <Xotic750> that will also work
10:35:51  * planetmaker builds NewGRF
10:37:04  * planetmaker fixes syntax error and tries again ;-)
10:38:37  <Xotic750> :)
10:51:09  * planetmaker fixes more errors :-P
10:55:53  <planetmaker> bah... I hate cyclic dependencies of identifies...
10:58:55  <planetmaker> though... it helps to use the correct vehicleID probably
11:02:13  <Xotic750> :)
11:02:23  <Xotic750> massive lightning storm here :)
11:03:29  <planetmaker> nice :-)
11:06:03  <planetmaker> finally... seems to compile
11:09:12  <Xotic750> it takes 40 minutes to compile on my machine here :)
11:16:43  <planetmaker> still compiling...
11:18:24  <Xotic750> I'm just waiting for the power to off in this storm :)
11:19:46  <Xotic750> holy shit that was a close strike :O
11:20:32  <Xotic750> it hit the conductor on top of the power chimney, about 500m from my window
11:20:52  <Xotic750> I nearly pooped myself
11:21:29  <Xotic750> and now hail the size large peas
11:22:30  <planetmaker> He :-) Honestly, I still say 'nice'. I sometimes like extreme weather. Especially when I can safely watch it :-)
11:22:39  <planetmaker> would be time to get the camera ready to shoot ;-)
11:23:21  <Xotic750> got big icy clump falling from the roof
11:23:38  <Xotic750> and I really want to go out for a cig :P
11:24:20  <Xotic750> seems to be passing now as quick as it arrived
11:24:33  <Xotic750> still, got the adrenalin pumping :)
11:26:00  <frosch123> there are people who go for a walk when they see lightning to enjoy the weather, and return home disappointed if there was no thunder :p
11:26:23  <planetmaker> well... I *might* be one of those :-P
11:27:17  <Xotic750> lol, I don't think I would have wanted to be out 5 minutes ago
11:27:46  <Xotic750> chimney appears intact after the strike though :D
11:28:02  <Xotic750> and no power loss, quite a surprise
11:28:27  <frosch123> yeah, i also like watching out of the window when there is a thunderstorm, mostly because it is fun to be inside :p
11:29:02  <frosch123> though this actually depends more on the water-level than on the thunder-level
11:29:29  <planetmaker> true. And whether the waterlevel really matters that much depends a bit on the ambient temperature
11:29:47  <planetmaker> Like a (sub-)tropical thunderstorm can also be nice outside. Nice refreshment ;-)
11:30:20  <frosch123> not really
11:30:38  <frosch123> dry and windy is a lot more refreshing that high humidiy
11:31:14  <planetmaker> sure. But that state can be restored afterwards :-)
11:43:37  <Xotic750> should have all the loading models with doors open done today
11:59:30  <planetmaker> oh. still compiling...
12:01:15  <Xotic750> :P
12:26:05  <planetmaker> seems it finished
12:26:24  <Xotic750> takes a while huh? :)
12:26:42  <planetmaker> too long :-(
12:29:32  <planetmaker>
12:29:50  <planetmaker> looks like the wrong graphics
12:30:08  <planetmaker> (and parameter meaning is reversed, but well)
12:32:05  <planetmaker> Xotic750: did you build the tank wagon lately?
12:34:13  <Xotic750> what's wrong with it?
12:35:50  <Xotic750> the tender you are talking about?
12:36:20  <planetmaker> whould the tender really have the same height as the engine?
12:36:27  <Xotic750> I had to rebuild the short wagons, including tender as I made them too long
12:36:34  <planetmaker> I thought it was a truncated passenger wagon :-O
12:36:42  <Xotic750> it is in the photos
12:37:40  <Xotic750> here is a model example
12:37:42  <Xotic750>
12:37:42  <Xotic750> &w=526&h=350&ei=-WXHT4utIcn34QSgrpWIDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=368&vpy=317&dur=2705&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=153&ty=92&sig=117377850546068949420&page=1&tbnh=126&tbnw=190&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:83
12:37:43  <Webster> Title: Google Image Result for (at
12:37:50  <planetmaker> hm
12:38:31  <Xotic750> and a real one
12:38:32  <Webster> Title: 60019 Bittern. | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (at
12:38:46  <Xotic750> that has both its tenders
12:39:00  <Xotic750> the coal and small water tank ples the extended water tank
12:39:08  <planetmaker> oh, so they should have two tenders actually?
12:39:18  <Xotic750> it can, for long distance
12:39:29  <planetmaker> ah, I see
12:39:46  <Xotic750> I guess for like London to Edinburgh
12:40:19  <Xotic750> I thought that may be a little overkill for the game though?
12:40:28  <Xotic750> but I can easily create it if wanted
12:43:51  <planetmaker> nah, not now.
12:44:09  <planetmaker> hm... the sprite quality drops considerably from 2x -> 1x
12:45:25  <planetmaker> most likey due to badly scaling alpha or so
12:47:08  <Xotic750> the only way to get the 1x better is to start with a bigger render
12:47:34  <Xotic750> as you scale down the anti-aliasing blurs everything and the colours go wonky
12:47:57  <Xotic750> I do run a sharpen on the 1x to make it a little better but it's about as good as it gets
12:48:24  <Xotic750> scale so small causes bad averaging
12:49:04  <planetmaker> depends which averaging, I guess ;-)
12:49:34  <Xotic750> I have tried it with all 4 of gimp's anti-alias methods including none
12:49:49  <planetmaker> f(<x>) = sum x_i / n_i or root_i (prod x_i) or ...
12:49:55  <Xotic750> none gives us sharp colour but nearly unrecognised shape
12:50:45  <planetmaker> or even min(x_i) or max(x_i) or median(x_i) or ... :-)
12:50:46  <Xotic750> I'm using Lansoz3
12:51:11  <Xotic750> *Lancsoz3
12:52:22  <Xotic750> lol, still can't spell
12:52:34  <planetmaker> :-)
12:52:41  <Xotic750>
12:52:42  <Webster> Title: Lanczos resampling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
12:53:35  <Xotic750> I've also tried linear and cubic
12:53:40  <Xotic750> the results don't differ much when we scale down so much
12:53:55  <Xotic750> only setting it to none makes a big difference
12:54:09  <Xotic750> and then as said, we get sharp colour but poor shape
12:54:52  <Xotic750> making the render bigger gives us better sampling of the colours, and they remain more correct
12:55:15  <Xotic750> but then we have huge images:)
12:55:51  <Xotic750> I found that 800% bigger than 4x in game zoom was very good
12:56:06  <Xotic750> and many recommended 1000% bigger
12:56:13  <planetmaker> Hm, I see
12:56:15  <Xotic750> but we ended up at 400%
12:56:28  <Xotic750> to keep file sizes down
12:56:28  <planetmaker> so basically it's sinc filtering with arithmetic mean
12:56:34  <Xotic750> yup
12:57:04  <Xotic750> but my tests showd very little difference between sic, linear and cubic
12:57:19  <Xotic750> when scaling so small
12:58:20  <Xotic750> you can try for yourself in gimp
12:58:35  <Xotic750> take a rendered image and scale it using the 4 types
12:58:59  <Xotic750> if you think a different one is visually better we can use it
12:59:08  <planetmaker> did you try a lanczos2?
12:59:17  <Xotic750> the post-process script has the parameters settable as variables
12:59:24  <planetmaker> nice :-)
12:59:38  <Xotic750> gimp has only linear, cubic, lanzos3 or none
13:00:01  <planetmaker> I see
13:00:02  <Xotic750> I think imagemagic may be able to do some others though
13:00:16  <Xotic750> or it may be a custom png resizer
13:00:47  <planetmaker> btw, do you have OpenTTD running: can you check what happens to the viewport when you zoom-in and out repetitively?
13:01:00  <planetmaker> does it move? If so: where to?
13:02:36  <Xotic750> tried zooming in and out many times, but it did what I expected
13:02:45  <Xotic750> not sure what you mean by move
13:02:53  <Xotic750> it moves origin to the pointer
13:03:13  <Xotic750> if it's not perfect on a square
13:03:48  <planetmaker> I mean the centre of the viewport. Does it stay the same?
13:04:04  <planetmaker> the very same tile?
13:04:22  <Xotic750> no, as I said it depends on the pointer positions
13:04:24  <planetmaker> don't move the mouse cursor. just use the scroll whell
13:05:07  <Xotic750> it depends how far I scroll out
13:05:16  <planetmaker> hm, yes, it does. I meant min to max and back
13:05:24  <Xotic750> just in and out from 1x to 4x it pretty ok
13:05:37  <Xotic750> min to max not always
13:06:05  <planetmaker> I was expecting the viewport to not move (comparing 4x against 4x after one iteration)
13:07:12  <Xotic750> did you notice that you can just about read OpenGFX on the side of the tender at 4x :)
13:08:27  <planetmaker> yes, I noticed with joy :-)
13:08:39  <planetmaker> and you can also read it on 2x quite well, I think
13:09:07  <Xotic750> lol, not on my crappy screen
13:09:28  <Xotic750> and with my colour blindness
13:09:47  <planetmaker> well. One can guess it
13:10:14  <Xotic750> btw, if you find a better app for scaling (better filter) I will happily change to it
13:10:26  <Xotic750> the scaling has bugged me quite a bit
13:10:35  <Xotic750> down to the 1x I mean
13:10:48  <planetmaker> I might try. Maybe write my own filter ;-)
13:11:43  <Xotic750> well, so long as I can run it on linux then the script can easily be changed to use it
13:12:43  <Xotic750> but I guess you don't want to go to 800%-1000% rendered images :P
13:15:07  <Xotic750> and I guess you've seen the little old bulk wagon
13:15:44  <Xotic750> which of course I will remove
13:17:34  <planetmaker> I'd write it as gimp script
13:29:42  <Xotic750> completed the loading models for all doored vehicles, yay!
13:35:54  * Ammler checks devzone compiler
13:36:02  <Ammler> what is about the disk quota issue?
13:40:03  <planetmaker> Ammler: the CF hits the disk quote and fails for ogfx-trains
13:40:17  <planetmaker> *quota
13:40:33  <planetmaker> Xotic750: tender for ginzu pushed
13:40:59  <planetmaker> in principle we can enable that now as default tender for other steam engines...
13:42:06  <Ammler> why weren't you able to restart Brot?
13:42:41  <planetmaker> why did it die in the first place? I thought it might have a reason
13:44:00  *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
13:44:33  <Ammler> well, if someone woul stop it for a reason, he would tell it here :-)
13:46:29  <planetmaker> :-)
13:46:42  <planetmaker> I thought it might be related those two things...
13:49:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 611:1ffd20110d0d: Add: Models for loading stage with open doors (Xotic750) @
13:49:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 612:59b2fb433ff5: Fix: Missing library path after major rework (Xotic750) @
13:49:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 613:4e6463804892: Merge: Local and repo data that changed suring model bu... (Xotic750) @
13:56:17  <Brot6> firs: update from r2851 to r2854 done -
13:56:37  <Xotic750> back to the rendering then :)
13:58:35  <Ammler> sadly manual running -releases is still broken, so this will take some time until I investigate the quoata issue
14:00:07  <planetmaker> you only need test nightly. We didn't release anything
14:00:29  <frosch123> ah, so now it's raining here
14:01:12  <planetmaker> it's overcast here the whole day. But... just boring weather ;-)
14:14:28  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22148 to r22148 done (6 warnings) -
14:17:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 614:a05b2626f854: Fix: Removed 1/2 length bulk wagon from visibility (Xotic750) @
14:19:39  <Brot6> test: update from r118 to r119 done -
14:22:30  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 615:eed769ea8e2c: Update: Added sprite template for new wagon template (Xotic750) @
14:23:28  <Xotic750> planetmaker: the short bulk wagon should now be out of the build, provided thee are no silly errors, building now so will check it is ok, given 40-50 minutes :)
14:24:56  <planetmaker> test before commit ;-)
14:26:01  <planetmaker> was usually a good guide :-P
14:30:57  <Xotic750> will we be getting a nightly tonight or should I bundle one and put it on the backup server, like I did previously?
14:32:15  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r23237 still failed (#3251) -
14:48:56  <Brot6> chillpp: update from r22555 to r22555 done (15 warnings) -
14:50:45  <planetmaker> Ammler: do you look at the quota issue? It's not related to releases only
14:53:34  <Xotic750> planetmaker: is there no way to display the tender and engine in the purchase list, other than create a special sprite for it?
14:55:00  <planetmaker> what do you mean?
14:55:19  <planetmaker> ah, the display in the purchase list...
14:55:30  <planetmaker> I guess it really needs a special sprite, yes
14:55:44  <planetmaker> Sorry, totally forgot about that
14:56:09  <planetmaker> Not sure it's that important, though
14:59:43  *** OwenS has quit IRC
14:59:43  *** seberoth has quit IRC
14:59:43  *** Ammler has quit IRC
14:59:43  *** dihedral has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** Xotic750 has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** avdg has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** tneo has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** Hirundo has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** V453000 has quit IRC
14:59:44  *** SmatZ has quit IRC
15:02:11  *** Brot6 has quit IRC
15:02:11  *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:11  *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:11  *** dihedral has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:11  *** seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:11  *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:11  *** Brot6 has quit IRC
15:02:16  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** Xotic750 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** Hirundo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** tneo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:16  *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:02:25  *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:13:43  *** frosch has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:13:50  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
15:43:44  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r568 to r613 done -
15:44:49  <Xotic750> planetmaker: I believe that I have anti-aliasing masks directly in blender figured out. If so then it is possible to render directly to the in-game zoom sprites. This would need less disk space, longer rendering times, shorter and less post processing, and could give sharper images and colours but it would require another large rework of my templates. Do you think it would be worth creating a branch fo
15:44:49  <Xotic750> r this line of development?
15:46:04  <planetmaker> might be worth a try. The "mercurial way" to do that usually is to just create a clone and then pull from that repo
15:46:23  <Rubidium> I'd just clone the repository, work in the cloned one on it. If it's good, push it to the repository, otherwise trash it
15:46:28  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:49:11  <Xotic750> Again, I need somewhere to store it due the moving back and forth between multiple PCs and also the render server
15:49:54  <Rubidium> so push to a second repo?
15:50:49  <Xotic750> could we setup a 2nd repo at the coop, or should I create another on bitbucket for this sole purpose?
15:54:46  <Xotic750>  planetmaker: seems you have the parameter around the wrong way for tenders, the show when set to "do not use" but not the other way :)
15:55:06  <planetmaker> hm...
15:55:29  <planetmaker> Xotic750: I like the idea of a "working" repo
15:57:49  <Xotic750> I'm happy to make one at bitbucket and if it goes well then we can apply it to the main ogfx-trains
15:58:14  <Xotic750> it may be alot of work and then I find out that it doesn't work as I expected
15:58:44  <Xotic750> but but I have done a few tests here now and I think it should work
15:59:43  <Xotic750> what I seem to see is a slight loss of quality in the 4x but large improvements in the 1x
15:59:58  <Xotic750> so I guess it's a slight trade off
16:05:39  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
16:19:11  <planetmaker> it's no issue to have the other repo also here
16:21:29  <Xotic750> well, I'm just made a comparison image, if I can upload it somewhere then you can compare the 2 methods
16:21:42  <Xotic750> does the paste server support images?
16:24:10  <planetmaker> no. Use
16:24:50  <Xotic750>
16:25:27  <Xotic750> ok, so, I won't tell you which is which :)
16:25:39  <Xotic750> but which do you like better?
16:28:05  <planetmaker> 1a, 1b, 2c
16:28:51  <Xotic750> you prefer the 1st column
16:29:48  <planetmaker> for 4x the 2nd is better
16:29:58  <Xotic750> the 1st column is an anti-aliased render made by blender direct at the in-game zoom level, the 2nd column is our current post processed sprite
16:30:49  <Xotic750> now, the only difficult bit is getting the masks to work when rendered with anti-aliasing
16:30:57  <planetmaker> tbh, I'm a bit undecided. Esp. for 1x the interior shows too much. Might actually also be the case in all cases
16:31:09  <planetmaker> Windows from the outside usually do not allow to look into wagons
16:33:26  <frosch> the 1st column is quite blurry
16:33:30  <frosch> 2nd is more sharp
16:33:36  <Xotic750> the glass material that I changed too is a proper blender material, asked for by others, with a little uv purple thrown in there like you wanted, the previous official material was not see through
16:36:17  <Xotic750> blender is using a Mitchell-Netravali filter with 8 samples per pixel
16:36:57  <Xotic750>
16:37:40  <frosch> yeah, but anti-aliasing only works for structures bigger than a single pixel
16:37:58  <frosch> for small details like rough textures, it only makes stuff blurry
16:38:19  <frosch> compare the window at the front/backside
16:38:24  <Xotic750> we are using anti-aliasing in both sets, but applied differently
16:38:35  <frosch> the right one is a lot more detailed than the left one
16:39:01  <Xotic750> the right one is a straight render and then downscaled with anti-aliasing applied
16:39:17  <Xotic750> the left one is rendered directly with anti-aliasing applied at render time
16:39:28  <frosch> for the right vehicle you can see the seats inside the vehicle, for the left one it looks as if the seats are drawn on the window
16:40:14  <frosch> the aa-radius is too big on the left
16:40:41  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
16:42:17  <Xotic750> I am using the second lowest value, 8,   my choices are 5, 8, 11 and 16
16:42:33  <Xotic750> and to be honest none of them look that different when I try them
16:43:32  <Xotic750> Well, so far it seems the preference, visually, is the way we are currently doing it
16:46:49  <Xotic750> maybe it's not worth my effort to try to render direct at in-game zooms
16:47:16  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
16:47:49  <Xotic750> and with our current method, the only way to get higher quality is to render bigger
16:48:18  <Xotic750> giving the downscaling ant-aliasing a better spread
16:48:42  <Xotic750> but giving everyone a nightmare with repo size :)
16:50:14  <frosch> why are the big rendered sprites in the repo? wouldn't the scaled ones be enough?
16:50:33  <frosch> why would someone want to run the scaling without running the render?
16:52:43  <Xotic750> there's more tp the processing than just pure scaling
16:53:08  <Xotic750> and any adjustments I make in the process require the raws to run against
16:53:31  <Xotic750> and I don't want to have to render each time I make any development in the process
16:53:46  <Xotic750> as it takes over 1 day
16:53:54  <frosch> but using the rendered-scaled method would not give you the non-scaled raw image either
16:55:15  <Xotic750> both methods still require some post processing, to turn them into 8bpp images and create appropriate 32bpp masks
16:56:37  <Xotic750> the main difference with rendering to size direct is the space saving in the repo
17:21:39  *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
17:32:31  *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
18:05:51  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
18:24:32  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
18:45:11  <Ammler> building ogfx-trains needs >1h?
18:47:31  <Ammler> he, grf is 50MB :-)
18:47:49  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r613 to r615 done -
18:48:58  <Ammler> maybe it is grf2html
18:49:18  <frosch> grf2html cannot handle container v2
18:49:25  <frosch> it should just exit immediately
18:51:16  <Ammler> 55 min buildtime
18:53:57  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
18:53:59  <Ammler> Xotic750: you know, devzone can push to bitbucket automatically?
18:54:07  <Ammler> well we should still fix it, just :-P
18:56:34  <Xotic750> I didn't know
18:57:12  <Xotic750> what has to be done to have that working then?
18:59:16  <Brot6> bandit: compile of r489 still failed (#3900) -
19:10:08  <Ammler> Xotic750: add user devzone to your repo on bb
19:10:24  <Ammler> and config in .devzone/
19:11:07  <Ammler>
19:12:49  <Xotic750> I'll give it a try
19:12:51  <Xotic750> thanks
19:13:10  <Ammler> hmm, maybe it is user OpenTTDE
19:14:07  <Ammler>
19:15:59  <Nat_aS> ;_; [11:59] <Brot6> bandit: compile of r489 still failed (#3900) -
19:17:02  <Xotic750> Request sent to devzone
19:17:12  <Xotic750> no such user OpenTTDE
19:21:57  <Xotic750> and i just create a file "backup.push" in ".devzone" that contains the address, correct?
19:24:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 616:d6044c14660c: Add: Automatic backup to, ssh://hg@bitbuc... (Xotic750) @
19:27:00  <Xotic750> I guess I will see what happens :)
19:43:32  *** NataS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:50:59  *** Nat_aS has quit IRC
19:51:04  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 617:464b261afdad: Fix: Changed raw output file that was incorrect type (Xotic750) @
19:51:55  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 618:49f39932df4b: Update: Brought template into line with new template sy... (Xotic750) @
19:52:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 619:52317cdc65cc: Add: Model for a passenger brake wagon (Xotic750) @
19:52:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 620:c29028f9a363: Add: Model for a passenger brake wagon to the list, loa... (Xotic750) @
20:02:04  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 621:b51a572dcf58: Fix: Changed raw output file that was incorrect type (Xotic750) @
21:09:45  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:37:34  <Ammler> Xotic750: E?
21:37:49  <Ammler> you should see such typo :-P
21:45:10  <Xotic750> E? what typo?
21:45:56  <Xotic750> aha, I see :)
22:19:36  <planetmaker> break wagon... cboose...
22:34:03  <Xotic750> the british called it a break wagon, americans called it a caboose :9
22:35:45  <Xotic750>
22:35:46  <Webster> Title: Brake van - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
22:35:47  <Xotic750> :)
22:36:12  <Xotic750> also, was reading about early bulk goods
22:36:22  <XeryusTC> go with british, always (Y)
22:37:05  <Xotic750> it seems that they used to load loose goods into bags and then load it onto open freight wagons, they didn't use bulk hoppers
22:37:15  <Xotic750> so not sure what to do for graphics
22:37:45  <Xotic750> XeryusTC: lol, I did ;)
22:39:33  <Xotic750> so maybe I should use coloured open freigh wagons to represent different types of load, and have them loaded with bags, thoughts?
22:45:30  *** Zuu has quit IRC
22:48:35  *** frosch has quit IRC
22:58:16  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 622:a7ca730b655c: Fix: Missing library location after major rework (Xotic750) @

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk