Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 8th June 2012:
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08:36:55  <Ammler> <-- planetmaker, any reason you don't close the versions?
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17:01:35  <planetmaker> 18:41 Ammler: [10:36:55] <-- planetmaker, any reason you don't close the versions? <-- no reason. Closing now
17:14:33  <planetmaker> hm, you need a German translation, eh, Terkhen? :-)
17:15:05  <Terkhen> among many others, yes :)
17:29:00  <Terkhen> now I need one less :P
17:29:26  <Terkhen> hmm... no commits here today, though
17:30:31  <frosch123> brot is dead for a week, if you mean that
17:31:47  <Terkhen> oh, ok :)
17:37:01  <planetmaker> ah, again? :-(
17:37:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: where's brot? :-(
17:37:14  <frosch123> planetmaker: not again, still
17:37:24  <planetmaker> :-(
17:38:17  <Terkhen> planetmaker: brot can take vacations too
17:38:31  <Ammler> well well :-)
17:38:49  <frosch123> hmm, so why are the grfs produced by the devzone different from the local ones?
17:38:59  <planetmaker> different nml?
17:39:09  <planetmaker> different pil?
17:39:11  <frosch123> devzone claims to have used nml r1888, which i use as well
17:39:15  <planetmaker> ah
17:39:28  <frosch123> how would pil affect that?
17:39:29  <planetmaker> different parameter? -c or alike?
17:39:50  <planetmaker> or did you also just use the same makefile?
17:39:51  <frosch123> i just run "make"
17:39:53  <planetmaker> hm
17:39:57  <planetmaker> which newgrf?
17:40:11  <frosch123>
17:40:37  <frosch123> the devzone files is about 2kB bigger than mine
17:40:41  <Ammler> frosch123: still use dos?
17:41:50  <frosch123> hmm?
17:41:56  <frosch123> nml files are identical
17:42:11  <frosch123> but the devzone also prints a nfo file, which my local makefile does not
17:42:34  <planetmaker> let's see what I get, frosch123 :-)
17:47:07  <frosch123> if i remove the "-c" from my local makefile, the output only differs by one byte :p
17:47:24  <frosch123> so, does the devzone have some custom Makefile.local?
17:47:36  <planetmaker> hm... I don't think so
17:47:57  <planetmaker> it must not have that
17:49:25  <frosch123> ah, the 1 byte difference is the "M" in my local version
17:49:59  <frosch123> so, it looks like devzone disables the "NML_FLAGS      ?= -c" from Makefile.def
17:51:35  <frosch123> yeah, the output is identical if i remove the -c locally and fake the version detection
17:55:59  <frosch123> yay, due to container version 2 the grfid md5sums are actually the same nevertheless :)
17:56:28  <planetmaker> hm
17:56:34  <planetmaker> devzone disables -c?
17:56:41  <planetmaker> not good
17:56:53  <frosch123> apparently it has some default for NML_FLAGS
17:57:02  <frosch123> so, the ?= from the Makefile does not apply
17:57:26  <planetmaker> hm...
17:59:55  <planetmaker> btw, is there an issue with repo creation frosch123?
18:00:07  <frosch123> no
18:00:32  <frosch123> it just takes up to 7 minutes according to ammler
18:01:49  <frosch123> <- planetmaker: but that issue still applies :)
18:02:08  <planetmaker> yes, the 7 minutes is the crontab frequency
18:12:55  <frosch123> planetmaker: the release build produced a correct grf
18:13:15  <planetmaker> hm, nice. But the nightly not?
18:13:25  <frosch123> so, unless someone changed something in the past half hour, nightly and release build differently
18:14:00  <planetmaker> hm...
18:14:09  <planetmaker> not too good
18:14:21  <planetmaker> though there might be reason for it.
18:24:15  <Ammler> how do you know, they build diferently?
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18:24:51  <frosch123> Ammler: i compared the results
18:25:15  <frosch123> nightly built without "-c", release with "-c" as intended
18:30:45  <Ammler> hehe, you think, -c is something like a debug switch?
18:31:32  <Ammler> I see no sence to not use -c, do you?
18:32:09  <frosch123> no, it would rather hide bugs which suddenly show up with the release
18:32:21  <planetmaker> the devzone should not impose any flags on its own
18:32:24  <frosch123> it would be better if nightly and release built the same
18:32:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: I don't think, the devzone does overrule flags
18:58:12  <planetmaker> hm...
19:00:31  <Ammler> why should it?
19:01:25  <planetmaker> I don't know. Why does frosch have that issue then?
19:04:19  <Ammler> becasue he has configured it that way in his makefile?
19:04:24  <Ammler> why should I know
19:05:55  <Ammler> NML_FLAGS="--nfo %{name}.nfo" <-- in the default build script
19:06:24  <frosch123> ah, so the devzone setz something itself
19:06:36  <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe the ?= should be replaced with += ?
19:07:03  <Ammler> frosch123: no, just te default build script
19:07:09  <Ammler> you can use your own
19:07:26  <Ammler> but again, why should -c not be default?
19:07:46  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes... that overrides the makefile's settings indeed
19:07:46  <Ammler> why does it need to be set at all?
19:07:46  <frosch123> Ammler: who said it should not be deault?
19:08:01  <Ammler> obviously, if you don't set it, it isn't set?
19:08:27  <frosch123> Ammler: the default makefile framework uses ?= to assign it, unless Makefile.local assigns it
19:08:40  <Ammler> well, I just add -c there until you guys fix nml
19:08:41  <planetmaker> or unless the cmd line defines it
19:08:42  <frosch123> if the devzone has a custom build thingie which assigns it, that breaks the ?= stuff
19:09:14  <Ammler> frosch123: again, this is not the devzone, this is the default build script
19:09:16  <planetmaker> maybe the makefile should use += -c
19:09:26  <frosch123> Ammler: it's nothing in the repo
19:09:31  <Ammler> I think, you shold fix nml
19:10:15  <planetmaker> however you put it: The DevZone sets NML_FLAGS. Overriding any defaults the makefile imposes
19:10:27  <Ammler> no, it doesn't
19:10:43  <Ammler> if you don't have a build script, it adds the default one
19:11:03  <planetmaker> eh?
19:11:04  <Ammler> where this flag was set
19:11:19  <frosch123> and apparently these default scripts differs for release and non-release
19:11:25  <Ammler> we have a collection of build scripts for the resps without one
19:11:35  <frosch123> so, how should a repo provide it's own script? that makes no sense
19:12:08  <Ammler> frosch123: opengfx does, firs does, most non-grf projects do
19:12:47  <Ammler> anyway, I added -c there
19:13:18  <planetmaker> where exactly? I searched for the default config but did not find it anywhere?
19:13:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: the makefile framework could also provide a target for the nfo
19:13:39  <Ammler> .default/...
19:13:53  <planetmaker> yes, it could... but that would then require two runs which would be possibly (much) slower
19:16:32  <planetmaker> 21:12 Ammler: anyway, I added -c there  <-- where, Ammler? (repo / file)
19:17:32  <Ammler>
19:19:29  <planetmaker> oh... it's in a hidden directory? Why that?
19:19:38  <planetmaker> could have searched quite some time then
19:19:56  <Ammler> hmm
19:20:14  <Ammler> use l
19:20:45  <planetmaker> -bash: l: command not found
19:21:27  <planetmaker> seriously.... why are crucial parts of the CF in hidden dirs in the CF's source repo?
19:29:08  <frosch123> hmm, the makefile framework need some different way to pass these options like additional nfo output
19:29:21  <frosch123> making -c default will likely break firs or so
19:29:34  <frosch123> iirc andy disabling cropping to get rid of zoom-glichtes
19:29:51  <andythenorth> yes
19:41:58  <Ammler> does not look like
19:42:26  <Ammler> since firs is nml, it uses the default scripts too, doesn't?
19:43:52  <andythenorth> Ammler:
19:44:13  <frosch123> oh, then it is not affected
19:44:33  <frosch123> the NOCROP in the spriteset overwrites everything :)
19:44:58  <Ammler> that is something else
19:45:16  <Ammler> andythenorth: I would highly recommend nml to have -c default
19:45:39  <Ammler> and let single sprites be nocrop like most of us do already
19:45:53  <Ammler> s/us/you/ :-)
19:46:18  <andythenorth> that's the case in FIRS isn't it?
19:46:21  <andythenorth> or I miss something?
19:46:27  <Ammler> nml issue
19:46:54  <Ammler> or grfcodec maybe :-)
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20:39:02  <planetmaker> good night
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