Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 31st July 2012:
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00:15:59  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 59:ca5ae9dc3278: Add: Food processing plant. XzephyrisX @
04:56:04  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 78:c37a67fc6c2e: Add: factory XRubidiumX @
04:56:05  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 79:081bc045e3ff: Add: arctic farm XRubidiumX @
04:56:05  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 80:fb7dd0a2f8af: Add: printing works XRubidiumX @
04:56:05  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 81:17bd4f7d9ef4: Add: food processing plant XRubidiumX @
04:56:10  <Brot6> zBuild - Revision 27:38251f0479f8: Add: facory, printing works, arctic farm, food processing plant. ... XRubidiumX @
04:56:12  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125 (New): Tropical farm missing XRubidiumX @
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06:05:37  <Brot6> zbuild: update from r26 to r27 done (1168 warnings) -
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08:01:01  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125: Tropical farm missing XzephyrisX @
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10:57:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Support #4126 (New): 8bpp pixel art and 32bpp render art offsets XXotic750X @
12:12:52  <planetmaker> hm... Ammler is not up to date anymore, eh?
12:13:08  <planetmaker> hm... or not sorted by time :-)
12:14:26  <planetmaker> very few anyway, < 100
12:17:48  <planetmaker> ^ Rubidium (sorry, channel mix-up)
12:24:41  <Xotic750> planetmaker: How's the ogfx-trains-render clone coming along?
12:27:52  <planetmaker> hm, wtf... seems not?!
12:40:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 634:8dfbe3344393: Feature: Add and use 8bpp pixel art tender spites in 8b... XXotic750X @
12:40:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 635:cf77ada20c82: Feature: Add and use 8bpp pixel art tender spites in 8b... XXotic750X @
12:40:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 636:31af39e72ef5: Merge with default; Fix #4018 XXotic750X @
12:40:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #4018 (Closed): 4/8 length 8bpp template and 8bpp Tender required XXotic750X @
12:47:51  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4111: Mask sprites incorrect XzephyrisX @
12:51:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: it's a csv, sorted by your viewer
12:51:38  <Rubidium> planetmaker: so it's safe-ish to assume that once zbase is somewhat finished and it's put onto bananas there will not be that many downloads
12:52:03  <Ammler> :-D
12:53:09  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes, that's what I do assume
12:54:22  <Ammler> hmm, it might also make sense to distribute zbase like opengfx
12:54:29  <Ammler> is the license gpl btw.?
12:54:40  <planetmaker> yes
12:58:18  <Ammler> will you ever split openttd.grf from openttd?
12:58:35  <Ammler> that is something I still need to fix in the suse rpm
12:59:07  <planetmaker> it's not forseen, Ammler and unlikely
12:59:09  <Ammler> (opentt.grf and the other dummy files)
12:59:35  <Ammler> well, I wait until someone will bugreport it there
13:00:07  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 11:068220365486: Feature: unpowered electric signals for lifted track XfoobarX @
13:00:08  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 12:aa95cdd49837: Change: also use unpowered electric signals for planning ... XfoobarX @
13:00:08  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 13:532abc802d40: Update: English texts XfoobarX @
13:00:10  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 14:e9dfc658fbf5: Feature: Dutch translation XfoobarX @
13:00:12  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 15:17c305cd2dea: Fix (r11): some signals were in wrong order XfoobarX @
13:00:26  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 16:1ce5758dbe6b: Change: TTD style GUI does no longer use original TTD gra... XfoobarX @
13:00:26  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 17:3ff71e583d03: Docs: prepare for release XfoobarX @
13:00:26  <Brot6> Useless Tracks - Revision 18:f8afc15cafa8: Release: 0.1.0 XfoobarX @
13:02:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: and imho it's correct to ship like NoMusic and NoSound along with OpenTTD. Though they maybe should not be treated as a baseset (in the UI) but as a "turn off music / gfx" buttons in the UI instead
13:02:40  <Ammler> yes, that i fine, I don't like to ship original set with it
13:02:53  <Ammler> and suse rpm would not work
13:03:18  <Ammler> as I have the dependency for it in the basesets
13:03:57  <Ammler> well, it is unlikely someone will install openttd without opengfx
13:04:12  <Ammler> hmm, rahter wihtout openmsx
13:05:10  <Ammler> I guess, I simply should change it to requires instead recommends
13:06:13  <planetmaker> Ammler: the original set is not shipped
13:06:19  <Ammler> of course it is, like openttd.grf
13:06:38  <planetmaker> openttd.grf is like extra.grf. It's user-made sprites
13:06:55  <Ammler> extra grf for original sets
13:07:06  <Rubidium> I see no pressing reasons not to ship openttd.grf with openttd in the default installs. Mostly because it is highly openttd version specific (no backward compatability), and thus shouldn't be installed in the global directory
13:07:48  <Ammler> like opengfx
13:07:50  <Rubidium> and making it a seperate package will only break existing installs
13:08:34  <Ammler> yeah, that is also the reason, I didn't split it in a subpackage
13:08:53  <Brot6> uselesstracks: update from  to 0.1.0 done -
13:09:04  <Ammler> it would only make sense, if done upstream too
13:11:22  <Rubidium> also installing it (now) in the 'content_download' directory will mess with things, mostly because the version has remained the same for long. Actually, I think it's used to prefer the right DOS graphics over the broken DOS graphics package
13:11:53  <Ammler> I could add a note to openmsx like "You need this package also for playing original music"
13:12:09  <planetmaker> but... you don't need that, Ammler
13:12:32  <planetmaker> you do not need openmsx unless you want its music. No other reason for it
13:12:39  <planetmaker> same with opengfx
13:12:52  <Ammler> well, the issue is the dependency like timidity
13:13:04  <Ammler> I would not like to have that in openttd
13:13:31  <Ammler> the issue is mainly with music only
13:15:34  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, you want that as dep. As you want music available by default
13:15:46  <planetmaker> honestly, for a distro just compile it with timidity
13:16:07  <Ammler> if someone installs opnettd on suse, he will install it
13:16:43  <Ammler> timidity is silly package and it has around 5 other deps
13:17:00  <Ammler> someone might like to use another music player
13:17:08  <Ammler> if possible at all
13:17:56  <Ammler> so currently the issue is only, if someone install opentd without recommends
13:17:59  <Rubidium> there's aplaymidi which only works if your hardware supports it, which AFAIK is roughly when your computer is last century
13:18:43  <Ammler> and it makes sense to install it without on server
13:19:46  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 60:a86d0ec01361: Add: 8bpp mask generating script and 8bpp-ized masks (company colo... XzephyrisX @
13:19:46  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 61:0cfe924180ee: Add: Copying info in repo. (Bug #4110) XzephyrisX @
13:19:46  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4111 (Closed): Mask sprites incorrect XzephyrisX @
13:19:46  <Brot6> zBase - Feature Request #4110 (Closed): Missing license XzephyrisX @
13:23:44  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Support #4126: 8bpp pixel art and 32bpp render art offsets XXotic750X @
13:50:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains renders - Support #4127 (New): Requires clone of merged repo XXotic750X @
13:58:29  <Rubidium> there's Ammler's confirmation that zbase is GPLv2
13:59:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Support #4126: 8bpp pixel art and 32bpp render art offsets XplanetmakerX @
14:02:58  <planetmaker> let's try again the clone, Xotic750. Thanks for the reminder :-)
14:03:05  <planetmaker> oh, a butterfly!
14:03:12  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 62:c4f869360471: Fix (r9): Split up foreground and background bus and truck stop sp... XzephyrisX @
14:03:12  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4090 (Closed): Bus and Truck Non-Drive Through FG/BG XzephyrisX @
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14:04:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Support #4126: 8bpp pixel art and 32bpp render art offsets XXotic750X @
14:29:41  <Rubidium> planetmaker: a butterfly... aren't those extinct in Europe?
14:31:45  <planetmaker> hm... no :-)
14:31:46  <Webster> Title: Picasa Web Albums - Ingo vB - Beobachtungen (at
14:33:19  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125: Tropical farm missing XRubidiumX @
14:34:07  <Rubidium> no black swans :(
14:34:55  <planetmaker> indeed not. I didn't see a single one there
14:35:24  <Rubidium> I saw a few
14:43:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #4128 (New): Draw articulated parts in the purchase menu. XXotic750X @
14:51:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1965:a3c0d722cb59: Feature #1031: House variables. XHirundoX @
14:51:41  <planetmaker> \o/
14:54:59  <Rubidium> total: 3145 of 8380 (37.52%)
14:55:12  <Rubidium> that's what my script says about zbase coding completion
14:55:20  <Rubidium> Score: 4045 labels, 1614 alternative labels, 39.90% covered
14:55:24  <Rubidium> and that's
14:55:31  <planetmaker> still not bad :-)
14:55:57  <Rubidium> loads of templated stuff will make mine go faster that the other one (and vice versa)
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16:03:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 637:44c6f92acea2: Add: Reversed template for 4/8 wagons XXotic750X @
16:03:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 638:3f110148c11a: Add: Reversed template for 4/8 wagons XXotic750X @
16:03:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 639:8b72a0bebca8: Merge with default, Refs: #2411 XXotic750X @
16:20:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #4128 (Rejected): Draw articulated parts in the purchase menu... XXotic750X @
16:20:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #4128 (Rejected): Draw articulated parts in the purchase menu... XHirundoX @
16:22:40  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 63:786092c751bf: Add: Temperate and arctic/tropical banks. XzephyrisX @
16:24:05  <Hirundo> frosch123: <- Is something like this feasible?
16:24:06  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Draw articulated parts in the purchase menu. (at
16:24:55  <frosch123> Hirundo: imo only when we do train templates
16:25:16  <frosch123> you cannot properly draw articulated parts without actual vehicles
16:25:45  <frosch123> without a vehicle consist you have only some variables, and with graphics it gets really noticeable if they are wrong :)
16:26:39  <frosch123> the long time goal is imo to trash purchase list callbacks completely and always build a vehicle in some sandbox
16:26:51  <frosch123> that would fix all problems with wrong capacities, ais having trouble, ... and so on :)
16:26:53  <Hirundo> That's the right solution indeed
16:27:28  <frosch123> it would also allow purchase+refit
16:28:04  <Hirundo> But how much coding effort would that take?
16:28:30  <frosch123> autoreplace does something similar already
16:29:15  <Hirundo> Those vehicle have to be allocated outside the pool, right? to prevent desyncs
16:29:33  <frosch123> depends on their lifetime
16:30:03  <frosch123> i don't know where vehicleids are used, and if vehicles outside pools would work
16:30:22  <frosch123> but autoreplace actually purchases, moves and sells real vehicles
16:30:35  <frosch123> though it needs to be very careful to not desync
16:30:58  <frosch123> question is, when are the vehicles constructed, and when destroyed again
16:31:12  <frosch123> for every single query? or are the hold longer?
16:31:25  <planetmaker> purchase lists are not synced between clients currently
16:31:28  <frosch123> (latter could not use the same pool)
16:31:37  <planetmaker> as I could open it while you build tracks or so
16:32:25  <frosch123> planetmaker: you could build the vehicle when selecting an entry in the purchase list, query all properties, store all spriteids, and then sell the whole chain before reentering the gameloop
16:32:37  <frosch123> so, actually, it might be not that hard :)
16:33:04  <frosch123> for the purchase list alone
16:33:12  <frosch123> but i am not sure where else GetEngineProperty is used
16:33:54  <frosch123> and querying all properties at once and then using the that container instead of individually calling some Engine member fucntion might also be a lot of work
16:34:12  <frosch123> i remember that i once looked into passing the depot railtype for the purchase list cbs
16:34:31  <frosch123> but, there were way too many functions that would have needed passing through
16:34:41  <frosch123> so, you might end up redesigning the complete Engine class :p
16:34:47  <Hirundo> AIs also need the info
16:34:50  <planetmaker> hm, yes. Easier to generate a vehicle indeed. Especially as that code exists
16:35:30  <frosch123> Hirundo: yeah, and ais would iterate thousands of times over the engine list and query every property :p
16:35:45  <frosch123> so, it needs some cache
16:36:03  <frosch123> but caching may only happen for gui or ai stuff, not in commands
16:37:13  <Hirundo> cache might be limited to a single AI tick
16:37:42  <frosch123> and window draw or so :)
16:37:43  <Hirundo> So if an AI queries a property a new vehicle is created, which is destroyed after the AI is suspended again
16:38:12  <frosch123> kind of, but you also need to restore the random seed
16:38:20  <frosch123> (see autoreplace :p)
16:39:03  <Hirundo> Can't the interactiverandom seed be used for that purpose
16:39:22  <frosch123> then you have to grep for all random calls in all vehicle constructors and whatever
16:39:28  <frosch123> and add some if cases
16:39:36  <frosch123> just what to put into the if :p
16:40:38  <Hirundo> All those random calls seem located in VehicleRandomBits()
16:41:24  <frosch123> well, you could use DC_AUTOREPLACE to not call that
16:42:15  <frosch123> you could test that by removing the saving of the seed from autoreplace code, and then check whether the upgrade-button in the depot causes desyncs :)
16:45:43  <Hirundo> Sounds like a long-term project
16:46:52  <Hirundo> Now let's first replace "House variables are not yet implemented in NML " in the NML docs by something better
16:51:01  <planetmaker> short form "House variables are implemented in NML"? ;-)
16:53:20  <Hirundo> planetmaker:
16:53:21  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 64:998d2c93d2d4: Add: Lumber mill. XzephyrisX @
16:54:08  <planetmaker> Hirundo: remove industry tile vars?
16:54:24  <Hirundo> those are re-added below
16:54:33  <planetmaker> ah... yes
16:54:57  <Hirundo> I moved some functions upward (tile_offset etc), but moving indtile vars downward apparently produced a shorter diff
16:56:14  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125 (Closed): Tropical farm missing XRubidiumX @
16:56:14  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 65:813cdf166488: Fix (r57): Duplicate arctic farm to tropical farm. (Bug #4125) XzephyrisX @
16:56:14  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125 (Closed): Tropical farm missing XzephyrisX @
16:56:51  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4125: Tropical farm missing XzephyrisX @
16:58:44  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4099: suspension bridge glitches XzephyrisX @
16:59:45  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4129 (New): Missing Climate Specific Oil Well Bases XzephyrisX @
17:03:12  <planetmaker> hm... very nice. And actually ... I suddenly have the desire to create a region-defining house grf :-)
17:04:46  <planetmaker> Xotic750: problem:
17:11:08  <Hirundo> frosch123: Am I right in thinking that the high bytes of var 60 (building counts of houses with the same class, for old house types) are bogus, as old house types have no class?
17:19:35  <Brot6> nml: update from r1964 to r1965 done -
17:21:29  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 66:84cdf31943bc: Add: Water supply. XzephyrisX @
17:26:20  <frosch123> Hirundo: maybe if you override the houses?
17:26:56  <Hirundo> I couldn't find any code path that followed these overrides
17:27:26  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, i think overrides just disable the default houses, and replace them on the map
17:27:27  <Hirundo> But I didn't fully understand the whole overrideManager thingy, so I may be wrong
17:27:33  <frosch123> while you cannot change the HouseSpec of them
17:27:51  <frosch123> Hirundo: problem with understanding them is that they all work differently :p
17:28:33  <frosch123> but yes, seems like high bytes of var 60 are zero
17:31:12  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 82:86e1b8e2e6eb: Add: tropical farm XRubidiumX @
17:32:35  <Hirundo> good, so I didn't implement them in NML for a good reason
17:35:59  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 83:5075dc368056: Add: water supply XRubidiumX @
17:43:43  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 84:a293c606ffba: Add: tropic and temperate bank XRubidiumX @
17:58:22  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 85:016a34d0b01c: Add: lumber mill XRubidiumX @
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18:05:31  <Rubidium> does someone fancy doing the steel mill or the road stops?
18:06:44  * planetmaker has a look at steel mill
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18:36:53  <planetmaker> After 30 minutes I'm not convinced that steel mill can be coded with the sprites as-is
18:37:05  <planetmaker> I'm missing all ground tiles
18:38:56  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 883:165e310a7289: Change: update Afrikaans translation (telanus) XandythenorthX @
18:43:21  <Rubidium> planetmaker: do they all have a ground tile?
18:43:35  <planetmaker> yes
18:43:51  <planetmaker> 1st building stage = ground tile as far as I see.
18:45:54  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4130 (New): Steel mill needs flat ground sprites XplanetmakerX @
18:45:59  <Rubidium> there need to be 28 sprites, there are only 18... so yes, stuff is missing there.
18:46:43  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4130: Steel mill needs flat ground sprites XplanetmakerX @
18:47:21  <Rubidium> so only the road stations are left to be coded
18:47:30  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4130: Steel mill needs flat ground sprites XplanetmakerX @
18:48:16  <andythenorth> by any chance has Zeph rendered a quarry, with all tiles for all possible slope combinations?
18:48:53  <Rubidium> I haven't seen it in zbase, unless you mean rocky tiles
18:49:14  <Rubidium> but the rocky tiles are only partially rocky
18:57:01  <planetmaker> @base 10 16 2118
18:57:01  <Webster> planetmaker: 846
18:57:26  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1966:c8088e3c6e83: Change: Sign-extend some house variables to impro... XHirundoX @
19:12:30  <Rubidium> 32bpp font doesn't make much sense, does it?
19:13:04  <planetmaker> nope, doesn't make sense
19:15:59  <Rubidium> there... 48.54% done! ;)
19:16:11  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 86:a5b0917dfa36: Change: ignore font sprites in the highscore XRubidiumX @
19:16:28  <Rubidium> or 37.98%
19:18:08  <Brot6> zBuild - Revision 28:e5f48dde5708: Add: some tropic industries XRubidiumX @
20:14:20  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 67:264b4000e8bb: Add: Fruit and rubber plantations (in terrain/trees/tropic/palm be... XzephyrisX @
20:26:31  <Brot6> zbuild: update from r27 to r28 done (1168 warnings) -
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20:48:17  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 68:19b0e6a73073: Add: Tropic palm trees. XzephyrisX @
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21:26:56  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4130 (Closed): Steel mill needs flat ground sprites XplanetmakerX @
21:26:56  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 69:4d8aecaf3115: Fix r58: Change steel mill 1st construction stages to flat sprites... XzephyrisX @
21:26:56  <Brot6> zBase - Bug #4130 (Closed): Steel mill needs flat ground sprites XzephyrisX @
23:56:36  <Ammler> do you mind, if I commit some changes to the spec so it cleansup the error log from gimp
23:57:11  <Ammler> also adding the missing files, which are build but not published or tested

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