Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 28th September 2012:
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00:07:18  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1132:fe60714ad8c7: Makefile Sort Out XFrankX @
00:07:19  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1133:83882ef55dbf: Merge XFrankX @
00:07:20  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1131 to r1133 done -
00:20:20  <Brot6> VAST+ Infrastructure - Revision 9:9e69eeff4d49: Added tag 0.1.0 Beta 1 for changeset 881238fb0148 XdnichollsX @
00:26:39  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1134:e0ea7c5eb531: Updated Make Test Display in Makefile XBeardie27X @
00:26:41  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1133 to r1134 done -
00:28:24  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Code Review #4292 (New): Check Over A380-800/900 Pax Capacity XBeardie27X @
00:36:01  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1135:f9de7372ea3b: Updated NFORenum and GRFCodec from r942 to 6.0.1 r... XBeardie27X @
00:36:23  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1134 to r1135 done -
00:57:20  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1136:d9cfff6d0fa9: Makefile Additions XFrankX @
00:57:36  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1135 to r1136 done -
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01:16:10  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1136 to r1137 done -
01:16:42  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1137:921ccc88f4b1: Updated Descriptions And Titles Regarding Makefile XBeardie27X @
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07:36:25  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #4293 (New): Arithmetic with sprite labels XdnichollsX @
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10:14:28  <Brot6> Unable to connect to Failed.  Response code = 502.  Response message = Bad Gateway.
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10:19:09  <planetmaker> hm, Ammler ^ ?
10:19:52  <Ammler> redmine update to 1.4.4
10:20:00  <planetmaker> ah
10:20:20  <Ammler> and some system updtes...
10:20:49  * Alberth hugs Brot6
10:21:25  <Ammler> Brot6: was up after the reboot before redmine 1.4.4 as it needed to update the Gemfile
10:21:54  <planetmaker> 500 for redmine
10:22:36  <planetmaker>
10:24:18  <planetmaker> it would give me more confidence, if I wouldn't find a seemingly random system problem only to then learn of system updates being conducted
10:24:49  <planetmaker> as it otherwise gives the impression that system errors out of the blue are a normal thing
10:30:47  <Alberth> change the /topic to nore users of the update ?  switch to a httpd server that serves a "sorry, we're updating" page ?
10:31:29  <Alberth> s/ore/ote/
10:31:30  <Brot6> Alberth meant: "change the /topic to note users of the update ?  switch to a httpd server that serves a "sorry, we're updating" page ?"
10:45:28  <Ammler> dihedral: planetmaker is the hudson server still in use?
10:46:27  <planetmaker> as I understood it: if he could, he would
10:47:59  <planetmaker> Ammler, did you look at ?
10:48:39  <planetmaker> I'm quite interested in being able to read that issue
10:52:23  <Ammler> ah ok, then do :-P
10:52:48  <Ammler> I check with dihedral about hudson
10:53:11  <Ammler> diabled for now
10:57:23  <Ammler> redmine_url_tabs is another issue
11:00:30  <planetmaker> updating on a test VM anyone? :D
11:01:11  <Ammler> of course
11:01:16  <Ammler>
11:01:31  <Ammler> I do that since ever :-P
11:01:43  <Ammler> does not mean, I test everything
11:02:05  <Ammler> basically, if redmine starts, I pull ;-)
11:03:10  <planetmaker> cloning a VM is cheap I learnt. Why not clone this VM, update that fully with the URL test-dev.o.o. And check all things there?
11:03:44  <Ammler> read my answer above ^ :-)
11:04:05  <planetmaker> I missed to read a "." there
11:04:37  <planetmaker> but "redmine starting" is not really a sufficient test, is it?
11:04:50  <planetmaker> it should also do the DB access properly and its plug-ins we use should work
11:05:13  <Ammler> setup a link list we should test
11:05:46  <Ammler> something we can run via curl
11:06:50  <planetmaker> that's a good idea.
11:06:59  <Ammler> next update will be new rails and new ruby, so that one could be tricky, I just updated to last supported rails2 redmine
11:07:25  <planetmaker> what TB does with openttd when changing system config though is "people, I updated the system on Please check whether everything works fine"
11:07:36  <planetmaker> that often catches a lot of things before it goes live
11:07:47  <planetmaker> could we do such procedure here as well?
11:08:02  <Ammler> is alvways up
11:08:23  <Ammler> and yes, next time I could announce a update and wait for pull
11:08:29  <planetmaker> that's unimportant. It's important that it gets a test when needed.
11:08:54  <planetmaker> But where should I - or anyone else here for that matter - know when there's no announcement or request for tests after updating the test system?
11:09:15  <planetmaker> It's no shame to ask people to check out the test system first before copying it mostly untested to the live system
11:09:21  <Ammler> [13:08] <Ammler> and yes, next time I could announce a update and wait for pull
11:09:50  <planetmaker> ask for the test of the testing system when you think that you have fixed everything
11:10:56  <planetmaker> yes, that'll be nice
11:11:20  <planetmaker> we have the time to update. We also then have the time to wait for dih's replies etc
11:11:44  <planetmaker> without like "I disabled it for now on the live system"
11:13:16  <Ammler> afaik, it didn't work anymore
11:16:35  <planetmaker> well, I don't know the specifics there. May well be. But it's more user-friendly to wait for a reply for a change of this kind
11:18:44  <Ammler> there is no big harm, update needs to be done, now we just need to know, if it worth to invest time to get it working again or to simply remove it
11:19:14  <Ammler> it's not that plugin rules if we do a update at all
11:19:32  <Ammler> we use already too many :-)
11:20:25  <Ammler> I might miss the url tabs plugin, though
11:21:03  <planetmaker> so, we don't have that now anymore either? :-(
11:21:22  <planetmaker> why exactly was the update then necessary at this time?
11:24:29  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 152:9b29d7ff042e: Add: Helecopters, 747 and Concorde. XzephyrisX @
11:24:35  <planetmaker> imho removing the URL tabs is a change which all project admins should be notified of. I kinda relied on them since their introduction to link the releases on the bundles server
11:24:37  <Ammler> planetmaker: I was wondering, if I am able to upgrade
11:24:58  <planetmaker> good. what about wondering about that on the testing server?
11:25:12  <Ammler> [13:02] <Ammler> basically, if redmine starts, I pull
11:25:28  <planetmaker> obviously removing at least one or two used plugins
11:25:37  <planetmaker> that's not what testing is about.
11:25:52  <Ammler> yeah, I agree :-)
11:26:05  <Ammler> (already did)
11:26:34  <planetmaker> every single thing is "not a big harm". But many of these small harms add to a big annoyance
11:27:02  <planetmaker> done is done. But PLEASE let's do future updates / upgrades much more professionally
11:27:37  <Ammler> well, I am not a pro, I use this to play
11:27:44  <Ammler> not said the first time
11:28:18  <Ammler> I am fine, if someone will help
11:28:21  <planetmaker> and you stubbornly refuse to take any help offered. E.g. by making use of the available testing environments
11:28:32  <Ammler> but as long as I need to maintain it alone, I do it this way
11:28:48  <planetmaker> we have no chance to help with this kind of work flow ammler
11:29:00  <planetmaker> you just setup to update the system. without testing
11:29:03  <planetmaker> without prior notice
11:29:10  <planetmaker> how can we even then try to help?
11:29:29  <Ammler> yep, that can be done
11:29:44  <planetmaker> for these kind of updates or upgrades, there's no rush or hard time constraint.
11:29:55  <Ammler> but you know, setup test system is not for free
11:30:09  <planetmaker> No harm, if testing is evaluated for a few days to work. Or to try solutions there to remove possible issues
11:30:22  <planetmaker> I think it's always there?
11:30:27  <planetmaker> and how "not for free"?
11:30:41  <planetmaker> cloning a VM is about as free as it gets
11:30:49  <Ammler> it also needs time to setup such a thing
11:31:04  <Ammler> to maintain it, to announce it etc.
11:32:09  <planetmaker> of course it needs some time. But that's compensated a lot by the time saved to hot-fix the borked system by current procedures
11:32:23  <planetmaker> especially due to the then much clearer information which can be given to people
11:32:36  <planetmaker> and that people know what they deal with and what will change
11:32:40  <planetmaker> that saves A LOT of time
11:32:41  <Ammler> well, not if the update _needs_ to be done
11:33:05  <planetmaker> yes, also then
11:33:10  <Ammler> it is not like test the update, if it works, fine, if not trash it
11:33:22  <planetmaker> yes, exactly like that
11:33:37  <planetmaker> or rather: if it doesn't work, then work around the issues, if they can't be solved
11:33:51  <planetmaker> But as long as it's all on testing, there is no harm anywhere. You can even test different solutions
11:33:57  <planetmaker> you can't do all this on the live system
11:34:04  <Ammler> I don't
11:34:12  <Ammler> that is obvious
11:34:30  <planetmaker> you do. you said yourself you didn't test anything except that redmine comes up
11:34:56  <planetmaker> you updated despite disabling two used plug-ins
11:35:02  <Ammler> yep, but I don't test on the production system
11:35:09  <Ammler> the pull was too early
11:35:11  <planetmaker> all three are issues which potentially can be addressed on the test system first
11:35:17  <planetmaker> yes, good. we agree then
11:35:35  <planetmaker> but this early pull basically makes our live system the test system
11:35:40  <planetmaker> which is the whole issue
11:35:43  <Ammler> yep
11:35:46  <planetmaker> anyway, let's put it aside now
11:37:29  * Alberth brings tea and cookies for all
11:38:51  <planetmaker> :-)
11:39:04  <Ammler> planetmaker: you really should not take it always that serious
11:39:16  <Ammler> after all, this is just a sideservice of a game
11:39:39  <planetmaker> this VM is in my eyes a core service of the game
11:40:02  <Ammler> yeah, I know, it is kinda your child
11:40:17  <Ammler> and I am the evil stepfather
11:41:21  <planetmaker> not at all.
11:41:52  <planetmaker> But I value reliability and clear communication of changes
11:42:22  <planetmaker> we owe that to all our users and basically the whole community
11:42:51  <planetmaker> they trust us. And we should tell them "we don't care"
11:43:17  <Ammler> s/should/shouldn't/
11:43:18  <Brot6> Ammler: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
11:43:27  <planetmaker> taking people seriously means to communicate in advance, if you change their toys. And DevZone is not only our toy. It "belongs" to everyone using it
11:43:48  <planetmaker> yes, we shouldn't tell them "we don't care" :-)
11:44:22  <Alberth> Ammler: something to keep in mind here, you're playing with the project data of other people/groups. For them that data is critical
11:44:34  <Ammler> well, if I wouldn't care, I would setup it once and never touch it again
11:44:56  <Alberth> Ammler: nobody accuses you of not caring
11:45:30  <planetmaker> the main issue, imho, is communication. Unannounced changes.
11:45:30  <Alberth> on the contrary, I think it's great you provide this service for many small groups
11:46:06  <planetmaker> ^^
11:46:13  <Alberth> 'issue' is perhaps a too big word, see it as an area where you can improve
11:46:19  <planetmaker> agreed
11:47:17  <Ammler> well, it was stupid to pull, but unpull would be too big hassle
11:47:40  <Alberth> Ammler: so time to think hoe to really do this, imho
11:47:40  <Ammler> usually I run the testing sysem much longer
11:47:46  <Alberth> *how
11:48:41  <planetmaker> Ammler, can one create a script which clones dev and adjusts IP and name?
11:48:50  <Ammler> what for?
11:49:07  <planetmaker> to make it easy to trash experimental changes on a
11:49:15  <Ammler> I have a working testing framework already since some years
11:49:17  <planetmaker> with like ./reclone-dev
11:49:31  <planetmaker> so, it needs basically no time to clone
11:49:31  <Ammler> (for redmine)
11:49:38  <planetmaker> I mean the whole dev container
11:49:50  <planetmaker> the whole VM which runs devzone
11:51:48  <Ammler> that is basically vzdump and vzrestore
11:52:32  <Ammler> and if once done, rsync private area before start of test
11:54:36  <planetmaker> anyway, I think we have a good procedure, if an update is done on testing.d.o.o. Announced publicly so that people can test their important things. And then after sufficient time make live
11:54:45  <planetmaker> we're rarely ever in a hurry to update really
12:04:41  <planetmaker> anyway, what do we gain by this recent update, Ammler?
12:07:31  <Ammler> the main feature is multiple repos per project
12:07:51  <planetmaker> ?
12:07:52  <Webster> Title: Changelog 1 4 - Redmine (at
12:08:29  <planetmaker> what was the previous version?
12:09:33  <Ammler> 1.3
12:20:26  <planetmaker> 500 on
12:22:17  <planetmaker> Url tabs is still available as module in each project's settings
12:36:17  <Ammler> didn't pull the disable, hoped to find a fix
12:44:55  <planetmaker> none of the plugins listed in the plugins overview page on redmine lists 1.4 or 2.0 as compatible versions...
12:45:00  <planetmaker> or so it seems
12:45:23  <planetmaker> ah, not true
12:45:33  <planetmaker> does actually list 1.4.x
12:45:34  <Webster> Title: Hudson - Plugins - Redmine (at
12:46:34  <planetmaker> and it only lists 1.4 :D
13:00:10  <Ammler> yeah, that is why I don't even test redmine 2 :-)
13:00:53  <Ammler> <-- fixed :-P
13:01:52  <Ammler> wildcard certs don't work for sub-sub doamins
13:08:38  <planetmaker> I can't go to
13:08:43  <planetmaker> it re-directs to dev
13:08:49  <Ammler> yeah, changed it test-dev
13:08:58  <Ammler> so https works
13:15:20  <planetmaker> how can I test test-dev.o.o as logged-in user?
13:15:46  <planetmaker> hm, nvm... worked. somehow
13:16:16  <planetmaker> hm. or not?
13:17:34  <planetmaker> no, I can't get a view of projects while being logged-in
13:18:24  <planetmaker> as login always throws me back to dev instead of test-dev
13:19:23  <planetmaker> and as far as I see as not logged-in user, all existing URL tabs are gone?
13:21:30  <Ammler> <-- only working url
13:21:34  <Ammler> https is required
13:21:55  <Ammler> if you don't use https, you will be redirect to dev...
13:22:32  <planetmaker> ah
13:22:33  <Ammler>
13:23:31  <planetmaker> he. the url_tabs ARE only visible while logged-in
13:23:35  <planetmaker> can that be changed?
13:23:50  <planetmaker> hm. no
13:24:06  <planetmaker> it needs https.
13:24:30  <Ammler> with http, you are on the production site
13:25:21  <planetmaker> but the URL in the browser still shows test-dev...
13:25:31  <Ammler> yep, possible
13:25:56  <Ammler> goes to dev
13:26:58  <planetmaker> hm
13:27:03  <Ammler> dev is default server, so everything on that server which is undefined goes there
14:06:54  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 153:7040929f3439: Add: All future planes. XzephyrisX @
14:06:54  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 154:16164dea8a1c: Add: Ships. XzephyrisX @
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14:37:22  <planetmaker> Yexo, and / or Hirundo, do I give correct advise?
14:37:23  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Houses in NML (at
14:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/redmine-url-tabs registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/redmine-url-tabs
14:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/redmine-url-tabs created
15:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/test-rm14 registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/test-rm14
15:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/test-rm14 created
17:08:34  <Brot6> nml: update from r2036 to r2038 done -
17:18:40  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1128 to r1137 done -
18:37:40  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 72), airportsplus (Diffsize: 101058), german-townnames (Diffsize: 5042), ogfx-industries (Diffsize: 48460), fish (1 warnings), dutchtrains (Diffsize: 885), newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 1), zbuild (Diffsize: 13), opengfx, spanishtowns (Diffsize: 8), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 2372), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 350), bandit
18:37:40  <Brot6> (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 8191), ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 2039), ogfx-landscape (2 warnings) (Diffsize: 5467), manindu (Diffsize: 2), debugveh (Diffsize: 989), swedishrails (Diffsize: 1322), dutchtracks (Diffsize: 545), swisstowns (Diffsize: 51), dutchroadfurniture (Diffsize: 204661), firs (28 warnings), britrains (7 warnings) (Diffsize: 78441), cets (192 warnings) (Diffsize: 73315), make-nml, ogfx-trains (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 7840), friss
18:37:42  <Brot6> (Diffsize: 2282), frenchtowns, uselesstracks (Diffsize: 415)
19:06:17  <Yexo> planetmaker: can't tell if that works or not, let's hope so :)
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19:20:17  <planetmaker> ok, thanks :-)
19:20:23  <planetmaker> we will surely hear back :-)
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21:36:33  <Ammler> dbg: [grf] [basecosts-dev.grf:72] StaticGRFInfo: all child nodes of 'INFO'->'PARA' should have type 'C' and their parameter number as id
21:36:34  <Ammler> dbg: [grf] [basecosts-dev.grf:73] DecodeSpecialSprite: Handling action 0x08 in stage 0
21:41:15  <Brot6> Base Costs Mod - Revision 34:05fb69456c75: Fix: parameter counter, version check XAmmlerX @
21:42:02  <Brot6> basecosts: update from r31 to r34 done (10 warnings) -
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21:47:59  <Brot6> GRFCodec / NFORenum - Bug #4294 (New): Action0 //!!Error (141): ID 46 out of valid range (00..41). XAmmlerX @
22:08:34  <Brot6> GRFCodec / NFORenum - Bug #4294 (Closed): Action0 //!!Error (141): ID 46 out of valid range (00..41)... XAmmlerX @
22:08:34  <Brot6> GRFCodec / NFORenum - Revision 947:de30c4871026: Fix #4294: basecost IDs up to 0x46 are valid XyexoX @
22:08:34  <Brot6> GRFCodec / NFORenum - Bug #4294 (Closed): Action0 //!!Error (141): ID 46 out of valid range (00..41)... XyexoX @
22:12:08  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r946 to r947 done -
22:13:21  <Yexo> Ammler: hope you don't mind, wanted to test my fix ;)
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22:34:56  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 112:74d9c48c4f5c: Change: Update hightlevel code of company land to NM... XplanetmakerX @
22:40:13  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 155:67f3f0f31954: Add: Some toyland town buildings. XzephyrisX @
22:52:05  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1138:534fb708e214: Updated A380-800 BA With Darker Engines - Close #4... XBeardie27X @
22:52:05  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Bug #4288 (Closed): Correct A380-800 British Airways Blue To Match XBeardie27X @
22:52:20  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1137 to r1138 done -
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23:08:09  <Brot6> basecosts: update from r34 to r34 done -
23:08:22  <Ammler> Yexo: fixed ^ :-)
23:14:46  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 113:bb39ab8d3235: Codechange: Simplify code for wind powerplant XplanetmakerX @
23:27:06  <Brot6> zBase - Revision 156:107568293fba: Add: More toyland buildings and some toyland building mask files. XzephyrisX @
23:31:15  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Code Review #4295 (New): Change A380-900 Start Date Further Into Future XBeardie27X @

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