Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 9th October 2012:
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14:11:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2904:5135df6138c9: Codechange: remove duplicate ground spri... XandythenorthX @
14:11:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2905:3603961c654d: Codechange: work in progress on snow for... XandythenorthX @
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14:12:11  <andythenorth> lo
14:12:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker I added ground detail graphics for the windmill
14:12:41  <andythenorth> I tried to figure out adding them, but not easy with the kids around
14:12:42  <andythenorth> :)
14:12:50  <Brot6> firs: update from r2903 to r2905 done (3 warnings) -
14:12:55  <planetmaker> \o/ :-)
14:13:18  <andythenorth>
14:13:40  <andythenorth> I might be able to figure the template out later myself, not sure
14:13:54  <andythenorth> the windmill uses a non-templated spritelayout definition afaict
14:18:08  <planetmaker> the wind mill grain mill?
14:18:35  <planetmaker> only the animated building is not templated - and cannot be templated.
14:18:48  <planetmaker> But as the templates allow to chain the single sprites, the rest is still templated
14:19:13  <planetmaker> cannot as in "not worth as it's unique to this building"
14:20:34  <andythenorth> so can template in a snow-aware ground tile?
14:20:43  <andythenorth> I tried that this morning, but guessed wrong how to do it :P
14:21:09  <andythenorth> I tried using CONDITIONAL_GROUND_SPRITE_OVERLAY() macro
14:22:56  <andythenorth> I should go read the macro parameters instead of guessing :P
14:23:19  <Terkhen> did we document them?
14:23:21  <planetmaker> the windmill? It has ground awareness, not?
14:23:43  <planetmaker> and yes, you can add a conditional snowy overlay sprite before the animated building possibly
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17:16:15  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set 2.0 - Patch #4377: Przenieść arkusz z Google Docs XniemiecX @
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17:19:33  <Brot6> firs: update from r2900 to r2905 done (3 warnings) -
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19:25:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Patch #4385 (New): Feature: Have 'untranslatable' strings XAlberthX @
19:27:50  <Hirundo> C programming question: given int *p; is (int*)((char*)p + sizeof(int)) equal to (p+1) ?
19:29:53  <Alberth> hmm, tricky :)
19:30:31  <frosch123> on normal machines, yes
19:30:40  <Alberth> I am pondering whether you can have issues with alignment
19:30:46  <frosch123> no
19:30:54  <Hirundo> C programming meta-question: Is above question appropriate for an introductory course in C (5 2h lectures so far), for students that have no prior programming experience
19:30:59  <frosch123> i only wonder whether sizeof(char) == 1
19:31:07  <Yexo> sizeof(char) == 1, that's for sure
19:31:23  <Alberth> Hirundo: no, imho
19:31:24  <Yexo> I agree with Alberth that (theoretically) the alignment could be an issue
19:31:37  <Yexo> Hirundo: not at all
19:31:42  <Hirundo> I thought it was far too difficult (though I knew the answer with *ahum* prior knowledge)
19:31:54  <Hirundo> Teachers thought it was difficult, but okay
19:31:57  <andythenorth> too hard :P
19:32:09  <Hirundo> Teachers were also surprised that 7 out of 50 passed
19:32:34  <Hirundo> I wonder if there's a correlation between my last two statements ;-)
19:32:43  <andythenorth> give them the python challenge :P
19:32:55  <andythenorth> I have forgotten how to get past #2 :P
19:32:56  <planetmaker> haha, nice, Hirundo :-)
19:33:07  <planetmaker> And yes, it's too difficult for a beginner's course
19:33:41  <Alberth> Hirundo: I am surprised that 7 found the right answer
19:33:59  <Hirundo> 7 passed, I'm not sure how many actually got this right
19:34:15  <planetmaker> hirundo passed ,eh? :-)
19:34:24  <Hirundo> I only know I did, and I assume I passed though I'm not sure
19:34:25  <planetmaker> (or were you supervisor?)
19:34:36  <frosch123> well, if the lecture defined "for all a of type A*: (a+1) := (A*)((char*)a + sizeof(A))"
19:34:40  <frosch123> then it's not too hard
19:35:56  <Hirundo> I've also had someone (teacher) claim that sizeof(int*) == 1 (to be proven wrong later)
19:36:05  <frosch123> but iirc the definion is something like *(a + 1) = a[1]
19:36:35  <Hirundo> Same teacher claimed that stack overflow == OOM, because "The stack will fill up all your memory"
19:37:05  <frosch123> well, that's likely true for machines with sizeof(int*) == 1
19:37:18  <frosch123> they usually only have one data segment :p
19:37:25  <planetmaker> :D
19:37:34  <frosch123> but then it is unlikely that they have heap
19:37:41  <planetmaker> age of teacher can be inferred, eh? :-)
19:37:48  <Hirundo> He was talking about normal computers, with stack and heap
19:40:01  <frosch123> Hirundo: ask him back, whether a normal computer is more like a finite state machine or more like a turing machine
19:41:56  <Hirundo> hmm.... I presume it is finite state, as there are around 2**(2**40) states (assuming 4gb RAM)
19:42:04  <frosch123> yup :p
19:42:34  <frosch123> sadly with internet it is not that easy anymore thorugh
19:44:02  <Hirundo> I dunno... I'll just build a program that works, pass the course and be done with it :-)
19:44:37  <Hirundo> And while I'm at it, try to somewhat fix the course for other and future students who haven't spent too much time in ottd source
19:44:59  <planetmaker> :-)
19:45:06  <Hirundo> FYI, they switched from Java to C this year
19:45:15  <planetmaker> Slip in openttd-related problems as exercises :-P
19:45:40  <Hirundo> Cause it's part of Electronics Engineering (my minor) and C is useful there for microcontroller stuff
19:45:56  <planetmaker> quite
19:46:29  * andythenorth tries 'coding by copy-paste'
19:46:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: quite common
19:46:57  <andythenorth> fails
19:47:03  <andythenorth> "Using spritesets with different sizes in a single sprite group / layout is not possible"
19:47:43  <Hirundo> andythenorth: I could fix that, but 1.2 users will not like you
19:47:53  <andythenorth> don't bother
19:48:03  <andythenorth> there is a right way to do this, I haven't guessed it yet
19:48:15  <Hirundo> Append extra empty sprites
19:48:19  <andythenorth> it's only a matter of elimination
19:48:24  <frosch123> i have already encountered code at work, which had some extra lines which looked totally useless to me. and when i some time later looked up some detail in the reference of a function, i found those lines in the example code :p
19:48:26  <andythenorth> I should write a program to guess code for me
19:48:26  <planetmaker> Hirundo, should we make it an issue so we don't forget for 0.4?
19:48:35  <Hirundo> Probably the fix is in 1.2.2, not sure though
19:49:17  * andythenorth is a monkey with a typewrite
19:49:17  <andythenorth> r
19:49:24  <Hirundo> planetmaker: go ahead, but I will close it immediately as duplicate of ;-)
19:49:27  <andythenorth> try enough combinations, something works
19:49:32  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
19:49:54  <planetmaker> I'll refrain from additional click-work then
19:50:23  <Hirundo> andythenorth: How is your Hamlet coming along? ;-)
19:53:02  <andythenorth> not well
19:53:46  <andythenorth>
19:53:57  <andythenorth> I've followed the format of other sprite layouts
19:54:12  <andythenorth> but fails to compile
19:58:36  <Hirundo> Check if spriteset_5_anim and spriteset_ground have an equal number of sprites
20:02:18  <andythenorth> nope totally different.  the error is correct :)
20:04:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you add the building twice?
20:05:08  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Bug #4387 (New): 32bpp_zoom_ground template offsets XdnichollsX @
20:05:09  <andythenorth> non-snow + snow?
20:05:10  <planetmaker> looks wrong. you could skip the first drawing of the animated sprites
20:05:50  <planetmaker> snow for building then is selected by the proper spriteset entry in the animation thingy
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20:21:18  * andythenorth needs to sleep :(
20:21:49  <Alberth> RL is so harsh sometimes
20:22:45  <andythenorth> what's that photo quote with the guy staring out of the window? :P
20:23:13  <Alberth> dreaming of a better world ?
20:28:33  <andythenorth> hmm
20:28:42  <andythenorth> I think somewhere I have turned safe search off in google image search :P
20:33:39  <planetmaker> Alberth, I added you to make-nml-common where there's already an instance of your script
20:33:55  <Alberth> nice, thanks
20:34:01  <planetmaker> that repo is a sub-repo of make-nml, though. So you might want to get the whole thing; then you have a quick test newgrf, too
20:36:19  <Alberth> good plan
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