Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 14th October 2012:
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07:16:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2919:50e913715d9f: Codechange: build some Grain Mill layout... XandythenorthX @
07:16:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2920:ea95e2774108: Change: use more python templating with ... XandythenorthX @
07:16:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2921:734f353ca881: Codechange: move towards a separate dir ... XandythenorthX @
07:16:07  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2922:cbd98da7e598: Codechange: have makefile create generat... XandythenorthX @
07:16:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2923:60cfedca936c: Codechange: stubs for tiles in python fo... XandythenorthX @
07:19:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r2918 to r2923 done (3 warnings) -
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07:50:24  <Brot6> Makefile for NewGRFs: Common part - Revision 35:82eaa56f60e7: Update: Updated to version 2.3 and add... XAlberthX @
07:53:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2924:fd8915c58935: Codechange: provide some stub code for h... XandythenorthX @
07:55:33  <Brot6> firs: update from r2923 to r2924 done (3 warnings) -
07:58:30  * andythenorth didn't break the compile yet :)
08:02:56  <Rubidium> good boy ;)
08:26:54  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 241:5b1efa1a34f8: Update: some of the documentation XRubidiumX @
08:41:43  * Rubidium would really like to build zbase and opengfx from the same "source"
08:42:19  <Rubidium> the amount of documentation added to zbasebuild where opengfx would basically benefit from is quite huge
08:42:43  <Rubidium> only nml needs to support building 'only' an 8bpp set
08:43:44  <Rubidium> it'd mean that zbase becomes a subrepos of opengfx
08:44:22  <Alberth> ie ignore all alternative_sprites ?
08:44:39  <Rubidium> Alberth: basically yes ;)
08:46:37  <Alberth> Is there a good reason to keep opengfx and zbase separate?
08:46:46  <Alberth> although now may be too early to merge
08:47:00  <Alberth> I don't know whether zeph has further plans
08:47:19  <Rubidium> it definitely needs a dialogue with him
08:53:46  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2925:73cdcc715a5c: Codechange: majority of grain mill tiles... XandythenorthX @
08:53:46  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #4411 (New): DevZone compile failed XcompilerX @
09:03:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2926:58f5f314d247: Codechange: climate awareness for grain ... XandythenorthX @
09:03:35  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2926 still failed (#4411) -
09:03:55  <Rubidium> success andythenorth ;)
09:03:59  <andythenorth> yay
09:04:22  <andythenorth> tra la la
09:05:08  <andythenorth> one day, I'll figure out a pre-push hook that finds uncommitted files :)
09:05:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2927:e2c095d103f9: Fix: add missing template file XandythenorthX @
09:05:41  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2927 still failed (#4411) -
09:07:45  <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Revision 242:8aa0b3b162ee: Fix: offset of bought land sign XRubidiumX @
09:07:45  <Brot6> zBuild - Revision 68:6ab5e240292b: Fix: bought land sign location XRubidiumX @
09:08:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2928:5500e8b5fca8: Codechange: remove some unnecessary boil... XandythenorthX @
09:08:29  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you could just move the misplaced message to the spam bin or it remove completely
09:08:41  <Rubidium> sorry andy ;)
09:08:49  <Brot6> firs: update from r2924 to r2928 done (3 warnings) -
09:08:58  <Rubidium> heh...
09:09:01  <Rubidium> bad bot
09:09:06  <Rubidium> I was first!
09:10:24  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, I can. But... he was editing, deleting, ... so it needed some time
09:10:42  <planetmaker> he confused himself a lot, so I didn't want to move the message at that time.
09:11:01  <planetmaker> (that was the first thing I tried... but then it was gone - and re-posted)
09:11:18  <planetmaker> upon which he obviously found the right thread. edited the old... :-)
10:10:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2929:29f0240ed3b1: Add: a stub file for templating spritese... XandythenorthX @
10:10:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2930:3e962e8e4e9e: Codechange: remove some magic from tiles... XandythenorthX @
10:19:11  <Ammler> Alberth: why is it needed to merge zbase and opengfx? Why can't those stay seperate sets?
10:19:25  <Ammler> zbase is made by 3 people, opengfx by 30
10:20:00  <Ammler> so you basically suggest to trash the community project and replcae with a one-man project
10:20:38  <Alberth> whooo
10:21:52  <Alberth> I see zbase as an addition to opengfx
10:22:42  <andythenorth> isn't zbase just a merge of extra stuff into opengfx?
10:22:51  <andythenorth> I haven't watched closely, but that seems to be the case to me
10:23:19  <Ammler> wouldn't zbase also replace the 8bpp srites of opengfx?
10:23:39  <Ammler> sprites*
10:23:41  <Alberth> currently it doesn't
10:23:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2931:cc1ae1966f8c: Codechange: use a list instead of tuple ... XandythenorthX @
10:23:48  <andythenorth> I understood the plan was to generate 2 base sets from one source
10:23:56  <andythenorth> but then I may have misunderstood ;)
10:24:06  <Rubidium> andythenorth: I don't think you misunderstood my idea
10:24:36  <andythenorth> is it something as simple as switching the path to graphics folders?
10:25:32  <Rubidium> opengfx would be zbase without 32bpp sprites and zbase would be opengfx with 32bpp sprites
10:25:42  <Ammler> also if you would like to make a 8bpp only set with zbase, what would you benefit with merge?
10:25:47  <Rubidium> actually, zbase currently is opengfx with 32bpp sprites
10:26:00  <andythenorth> there's a lot of code defining sprites right?
10:26:09  <Alberth> Rubidium: what about making zbase, and then stripping the 32bpp part in the grf world?
10:26:22  * andythenorth goes back to spritesets :P
10:26:38  <andythenorth> making two versions from one codebase sounds pretty trivial
10:26:44  <Rubidium> Alberth: that's basically it, though you want to replace some pieces of text in the extra GRF (I think)
10:26:45  <andythenorth> but then andythenorth is often confused
10:26:59  <Ammler> oh btw. any reason you didn't copy the transaltion script to first, yet? Shall I?
10:27:04  <Rubidium> andythenorth: zbase is opengfx + alternative 32bpp sprites
10:27:07  <Ammler> -t
10:27:09  <Alberth> Ammler: zbase is only 32bpp, it has no 8bpp sprites
10:27:19  <Alberth> (except masks)
10:27:22  <Rubidium> Alberth: lies...
10:27:31  <Ammler> Alberth: what would a merge make easier?
10:27:39  * andythenorth invents a Spriteset object
10:27:40  <Ammler> (then)
10:27:42  <Rubidium> zbase has *all* 8bpp sprites and for 'some' (92%) it has 32bpp sprites as well
10:27:54  <andythenorth> hmm calling it Spriteset is going to suck for find+replace :(
10:27:56  <Rubidium> and *all* 8bpp sprites from zbase are OpenGFX sprites
10:28:23  <Ammler> so if you merge it and create 8bpp only set, you would still have opengfx?
10:28:49  <Rubidium>,%202000-01-06.png <- zbase with 8bpp blitter
10:29:11  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes
10:29:36  <Ammler> Rubidium: toyland is bad clima as example :-)
10:29:53  <Rubidium> Ammler: why? Because you don't know it?
10:30:06  <Ammler> yes
10:30:14  <Rubidium> which climate do you know
10:30:21  <Ammler> well, anyway, what wold be the benefit of a merge then?
10:30:50  <Alberth> Ammler: all sprite definitions of opengfx are currently duplicated in zbase
10:30:54  <Rubidium> 1) the loads of comments added to zbase what sprites are will be available in opengfx
10:31:25  <Rubidium> 2) whenever a new sprite is needed, we only need to add it to one nml (opengfx) instead of two (opengfx and zbase)
10:32:33  <Rubidium> 3) less projects
10:33:32  <Rubidium> 4) opengfx is already known in repositories, adding opengfx-32 might be easier that pushing zbase
10:34:31  <Ammler> I am just not sure, if it could make sense to make zbase 8bpp set
10:34:41  <Rubidium> 5) if zbase really takes off, then wouldn't it be fair if it uses the name of the original project for open and free graphics? (assuming Zephyris agrees with OpenGFX 32 and you with OpenGFX 8)
10:35:02  <Rubidium> Ammler: it makes absolutely no sense to make an 8bpp zbase variant
10:35:36  <Rubidium> since that equals OpenGFX
10:35:49  <Ammler> but consistent graphics
10:36:03  <Ammler> not an author mix as opengfx
10:36:20  <Rubidium> why would you make 8bpp sprites out of the 32bpp sprites?
10:36:32  <Rubidium> the benefits of that are tiny
10:46:33  <Ammler> Alberth: the links to report are broken
10:46:44  <Ammler> file:///home/marcel/hg/firs/translations/translations/indonesian.html
10:46:53  <Ammler> 2x "translations"
10:48:45  <Ammler> if zbase would be part of opengfx, it is at least easeir to package it for distroes
10:51:04  <Alberth> Ammler: don't add 'translations' in the transl-url if you state it in the arguments too
10:51:18  <Ammler> the link to the report that is
10:51:42  <Ammler> transl-url works
10:52:03  <Alberth> what command-line do you use?
10:52:06  <Ammler> ./scripts/ --html -d --output-dir=translations --index=translations/index.html --transl-url= --verbose lang/english.lng lang/*.lng
10:52:41  <Alberth> so how does that become file://  ?
10:52:56  <Ammler> firefox translatins/
10:53:23  <Ammler> how do you read local html files?
10:53:35  <Alberth> ah, I see the problem now, thanks
10:55:21  <Ammler> I would also add links to the report
10:55:35  <Ammler> also a link to the origin file might be useful
10:57:28  <Alberth> could be useful
11:02:48  <Brot6> zbuild: update from r67 to r68 done -
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11:13:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2932:7c639ccfc2a4: Codechange: python template some of the ... XandythenorthX @
11:13:22  <Ammler> with rhodecode, you could edit the files online, might be useful for translators :-)
11:13:59  <Ammler> too dangerous maybe
11:15:04  <Ammler> andythenorth: why is in sprites/nml instead scripts, is it firs specific?
11:15:49  <andythenorth> currently yes
11:15:55  <andythenorth> might change in future
11:15:58  <andythenorth> not sure yet
11:16:20  <andythenorth> it seems that 'just start coding' produces useful questions like that
11:16:28  <andythenorth> whereas up-front design produces silence or argument :)
11:16:40  <Brot6> firs: update from r2928 to r2932 done (3 warnings) -
11:17:08  <Ammler> ah well, it caused some errors on the devzone building
11:19:10  <andythenorth> if those are from last night / earlier today, andythenorth caused most of them ;)
11:20:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2933:ae523902fadc: Codechange: python template further spri... XandythenorthX @
11:22:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r2932 to r2933 done (3 warnings) -
11:24:27  <Ammler> andythenorth: just meant, those made verbose
11:25:06  <andythenorth> k
11:29:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2934:e59c726c1a03: Codechange: use .id not .name for indust... XandythenorthX @
11:31:10  <Brot6> firs: update from r2933 to r2934 done (3 warnings) -
11:32:24  <Brot6> Makefile for NewGRFs: Common part - Revision 36:b60e74b82bc9: Fix: Compute path of the translation r... XAlberthX @
11:32:36  <Alberth> Ammler: ^^  fixed, I think
11:32:55  <Ammler> :-)
11:34:04  <Alberth> perhaps the --index option is wrong to take a path to the index file
11:34:05  <Ammler> Alberth: you miss the -x flag :-P
11:34:23  <Ammler> hmm
11:34:41  <Ammler> maybe that is why you keep .py extension
11:35:03  <Alberth> it isn't :)
11:35:22  <Alberth> I never considered renaming it
11:38:57  <Alberth> Ammler: one -x flag all for you
11:39:48  <Ammler> i meant chmod +x, but indeed
11:40:05  <Ammler> I should not start a script that way, if it has extension
11:40:25  <Ammler> python nml_lan... would be the right call
11:49:44  <Alberth> unix does not care about extensions at all :)
11:53:47  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 168:a1369aba868b: [Compiler] Change: add transl-url XAmmlerX @
11:54:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2935:d1077b3d13b7: Codechange: refactor how spriteset ids w... XandythenorthX @
11:55:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r2934 to r2935 done (3 warnings) -
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11:57:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2936:c04f1cc8404a: Update: nml_langcheck script to r36 XAmmlerX @
11:58:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r2935 to r2936 done (3 warnings) -
11:59:40  <Ammler> + [[ -x ./scripts/ ]] <-- mäh :-P
11:59:55  <Ammler> I knew there was a reason for -x
12:03:18  <Alberth> :)
12:05:12  <Brot6> firs: update from r2936 to r2936 done (3 warnings) -
12:07:12  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 169:05328fa0c691: [Compiler] Change: Alberth does not like -x XAmmlerX @
12:17:29  <Yexo> Ammler: upload of cargodist build from openttd cf to openttdcoop server failed
12:17:38  <Yexo> there is some talk of that in #openttd currently
12:19:34  <Ammler> there was ip and more important port change
12:19:49  <Ammler> but truebrain updated that
12:21:52  <Yexo> did he also change it back when you moved bundles back to the old host?
12:22:32  <andythenorth> hmm
12:22:33  <Ammler> well, that change was before the migration
12:22:36  <andythenorth> I broke FIRS repo
12:22:53  <andythenorth> oh
12:22:55  <andythenorth> the error has gone
12:23:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2937:0e96f5f5f1e8: Codechange: refactoring more id stuff fo... XandythenorthX @
12:23:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2938:80a70c2f4f26: Codechange: refactoring more id stuff fo... XandythenorthX @
12:23:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2939:8f33c893cd5b: merge XandythenorthX @
12:23:01  <andythenorth> redmine oddness
12:23:43  <andythenorth> r2938 is nonsense :P
12:23:45  <andythenorth> oops
12:24:43  <Brot6> firs: update from r2936 to r2939 done (3 warnings) -
12:39:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2940:8ca9dfe2a83a: Codechange: provide a stub to enable ani... XandythenorthX @
12:41:11  <Brot6> firs: update from r2939 to r2940 done (3 warnings) -
12:44:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2941:28310ed4002b: Codechange: refactor Tile to SpriteLayou... XandythenorthX @
12:45:17  <Brot6> firs: update from r2940 to r2941 done (3 warnings) -
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13:45:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2942:9ad00abc4b09: Codechange: template spriteset for groun... XandythenorthX @
13:47:18  <Brot6> firs: update from r2941 to r2942 done (3 warnings) -
13:51:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2943:399a5c642019: Codechange: add an empty sprite to groun... XandythenorthX @
13:52:20  <Brot6> firs: update from r2942 to r2943 done (3 warnings) -
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14:42:39  *** ChanServ changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Downloads log: | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames | anonymous Fallback hg host: (should work like but also for big files) | bundles,dev,www,mysql get moved back to old host ("
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14:57:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2944:ca77f6a17019: Codechange: templated animated sprites f... XandythenorthX @
14:59:34  <Brot6> firs: update from r2943 to r2944 done (3 warnings) -
15:03:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2945:b23261052003: Codechange: refactor name of autofill pa... XandythenorthX @
15:04:09  <Brot6> firs: update from r2944 to r2945 done (3 warnings) -
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15:37:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2946:6079f00485ec: Codechange: refactor some layout definit... XandythenorthX @
15:38:12  <Brot6> firs: update from r2945 to r2946 done (3 warnings) -
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16:03:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2947:43233f03c8fb: Codechange: refactor 'tiles' to be 'spri... XandythenorthX @
16:05:36  <Brot6> firs: update from r2946 to r2947 done (3 warnings) -
16:05:59  <andythenorth> r3k gets closer :P
16:18:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2948:cd39a07862e4: Codechange: refactor references to layou... XandythenorthX @
16:20:33  <Brot6> firs: update from r2947 to r2948 done (3 warnings) -
16:21:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2949:77f43875f885: Codechange: refactor more references to ... XandythenorthX @
16:22:28  <Brot6> firs: update from r2948 to r2949 done (3 warnings) -
16:29:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2950:12aa6ffea08f: Codechange: refactor identifiers to refe... XandythenorthX @
16:30:43  <Brot6> firs: update from r2949 to r2950 done (3 warnings) -
16:36:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2951:1fe469142234: Codechange: refer to 'industry_layout' n... XandythenorthX @
16:38:19  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2952:0e795b4d41b7: Codechange: refactor a switch id to be m... XandythenorthX @
16:38:19  <Brot6> firs: update from r2950 to r2951 done (3 warnings) -
16:40:07  <Brot6> firs: update from r2951 to r2952 done (3 warnings) -
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19:01:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2953:259a12f8d27f: Codechange: add GPL notifications to var... XandythenorthX @
19:04:49  <Brot6> firs: update from r2952 to r2953 done (3 warnings) -
19:06:33  <andythenorth> meh
19:06:40  <andythenorth> r3K is going to 'codechange' probably :P
19:06:43  <andythenorth> no feature :P
19:10:42  <Alberth> good night
19:10:48  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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19:14:23  <Brot6> zbuild: update from r66 to r68 done -
19:15:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2954:cc8a51b6379e: Change: remove redundant layouts from Gr... XandythenorthX @
19:15:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2955:8ce4fc028066: Change: set min. compatible version to 2... XandythenorthX @
19:17:50  <Brot6> firs: update from r2953 to r2955 done (3 warnings) -
19:19:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2956:230b14734dd5: Codechange: rename some industry_layout ... XandythenorthX @
19:21:30  <Brot6> firs: update from r2955 to r2956 done (3 warnings) -
19:22:56  <Brot6> firs: update from r2911 to r2955 done (3 warnings) -
19:46:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2957:8f151325af81: Codechange: python template the industry... XandythenorthX @
19:48:30  <Brot6> firs: update from r2956 to r2957 done (3 warnings) -
20:01:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2958:4aa8aa445789: Codechange: wrap up tilelayout generatio... XandythenorthX @
20:02:56  <Brot6> firs: update from r2957 to r2958 done (3 warnings) -
20:03:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2959:2b726e99f320: Codechange: wrap up industry layout grap... XandythenorthX @
20:05:10  <Brot6> firs: update from r2958 to r2959 done (3 warnings) -
20:06:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2960:c7fdcdd12184: Codechange: wrap up spritelayout generat... XandythenorthX @
20:07:34  <Rubidium> andythenorth: just let r3000 be a tag ;)
20:07:47  <Brot6> firs: update from r2959 to r2960 done (3 warnings) -
20:07:51  <andythenorth> he
20:07:52  <Rubidium> or at least r20k ;)
20:08:01  <andythenorth> r20k :o
20:08:06  <andythenorth> will I live that long? :P
20:08:43  <Rubidium> @calc 3+(7/12)
20:08:43  <Webster> Rubidium: 3.58333333333
20:09:03  <Rubidium> @calc 20000/(2960/3.58333333)
20:09:03  <Webster> Rubidium: 24.2117094595
20:09:16  <Rubidium> hmm... wrong
20:09:28  <Rubidium> @calc (20000-2960)/(2960/3.58333333)
20:09:28  <Webster> Rubidium: 20.6283764595
20:09:42  <Rubidium> @calc 0.62837*12
20:09:42  <Webster> Rubidium: 7.54044
20:10:01  <Rubidium> in 20 years, 7 months and 16-ish days
20:10:04  <andythenorth> hmm
20:10:08  <andythenorth> well maybe
20:10:13  <Rubidium> @calc 0.54044*30
20:10:13  <Webster> Rubidium: 16.2132
20:10:16  <Rubidium> @calc 0.54044*31
20:10:16  <Webster> Rubidium: 16.75364
20:10:45  <Rubidium> otherwise your offspring will be old enough to continue your legacy
20:11:04  <andythenorth> :)
20:11:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2961:f9eb31347be6: Codechange: wrap up spriteset generation... XandythenorthX @
20:12:28  <Brot6> firs: update from r2960 to r2961 done (3 warnings) -
20:17:32  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:20:22  <Yexo> planetmaker / Hirundo: was there anything left for a new 0.2 release?
20:20:27  *** ODM has quit IRC
20:21:00  <Yexo> reading back #4246 I don't think so (except cleaning up the changelog a bit)
20:21:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2962:26e508564eb5: Codechange: template also the master lay... XandythenorthX @
20:22:05  * planetmaker goes looking
20:22:31  <Brot6> firs: update from r2961 to r2962 done (3 warnings) -
20:22:49  <Ammler> are the new GUI sprites are in? (opengfx)
20:25:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 2039:280edddc20d2: Change #4299: normalize language file error messa... XyexoX @
20:26:42  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Patch #4299 (Closed): Normalize language file error messages XyexoX @
20:27:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #4311: Use more unique language file names XyexoX @
20:30:35  <Yexo> planetmaker: what's your opinion about #4385?
20:30:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2963:e4b5d404ea3c: Codechange: cleanup references to indust... XandythenorthX @
20:30:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2964:b6a832bfa0b6: Codechange: improve some comments XandythenorthX @
20:32:15  <Brot6> firs: update from r2962 to r2964 done (3 warnings) -
20:32:51  <planetmaker> hm, 167 sprites in OpenTTD GUI... is NML 0-based? If not, it's missing one, there
20:33:03  <planetmaker> #4385
20:35:01  <Yexo> lists 162, where is a more updated list?
20:35:38  <planetmaker> ah, that. I'm undecided on two accounts: one is whether it's a good thing (what about rtl etc?). OpenTTD doesn't do it either. Second whether "=" is a good character
20:35:58  <planetmaker> But I've often wondered and wished for exactly this feature as in 4385 as well
20:36:06  <Yexo> my thoughts exactly
20:36:15  <Yexo> I do think the feature is good, but is has to be used with care
20:36:52  <Yexo> things like an url should normally not be translated. If localized urls are available they master translation can be updated
20:37:56  <Yexo> on the other hand: it's a one-time effort to duplicate those strings, and the final newgrf won't become any bigger
20:40:12  <planetmaker> It won't become bigger?
20:40:21  <Yexo> nml takes care of that
20:40:37  <planetmaker> I recon the string is stored for each language? If not, then I do think we don't need that
20:40:40  <Yexo> if a translation is an exact duplicate of the master translations it won't become part of the grf file
20:40:56  <planetmaker> Then I'm actually not in favour of #4385
20:41:34  <Yexo> I'll update the issue with some thoughts
20:41:37  <andythenorth> I'm not convinced it's required yet
20:41:46  <andythenorth> alberth discovered it in one of my grfs
20:41:51  <andythenorth> but I think there are other solutions
20:42:15  <andythenorth> one would be a master strings file which is not translated
20:43:18  <Yexo> sorry andy, but I really dislike that solution
20:43:25  <Yexo> it makes it even less clear where strings come from
20:43:33  <Ammler> a similar issue could be parent language file
20:43:59  <andythenorth> Yexo: it's only one option
20:44:07  <andythenorth> but I don't think it's unclear currently where strings come from
20:44:20  <andythenorth> it's a nice system, and well documented
20:44:54  <planetmaker> Yexo, table/sprite.h lists 166 GUI sprites. Seems our newgrf specs are outdated... town happiness sprites
20:45:05  <Yexo> yes, currently it clear. But if we'd split up english.lng to english.lng and untranslatable.lng it'd become less clear
20:45:09  <planetmaker> r19238
20:45:13  <planetmaker> uhm... in my hg
20:45:29  <andythenorth> I dislike the idea of repeating the same string in lots of files, but prefixed with a different char
20:45:36  <andythenorth> it's bad for 'find' among other things :P
20:46:25  <andythenorth> any other ideas?
20:47:11  <planetmaker> but NML seems to know about them...
20:47:30  <Ammler> untranslatable.lng could be parent of english.lng which is parent english.lng wihich is parent of english_us.lng...
20:48:16  <andythenorth> nesting :)
20:48:30  <Yexo> Ammler: and german.lng would have english.lng as parent?
20:48:32  <Ammler> not just for newgrfs
20:48:39  <Ammler> Yexo: yep
20:48:41  <andythenorth> reminds me, I have to clean up FIRS english_au and english_us, they are a mess
20:49:07  <Yexo> Ammler: a problem with that is that there is no single base file anymore
20:49:38  <Ammler> Yexo: why is that needed?
20:49:40  <Yexo> english.lng doesn't contain all strings anymore, so it's not easy to find out which strings in german.lng are extra
20:49:58  <andythenorth> you need a master for comparison
20:50:00  <Ammler> well, translations compare with parent
20:50:16  <Yexo> it also makes it harder if you look for a specific string from the source code. Say you see STR_SOME_NAME and you want to know the contents
20:50:37  <Yexo> you'd have to start in english.lng, if you don't find it go to untranslatable.lng etc.
20:50:45  <andythenorth> we should just make .pot files :P
20:50:51  <planetmaker> Amended Newgrf wiki now
20:50:52  <andythenorth> [not a serious suggestion]
20:50:58  <Ammler> Yexo: well, unstranslateable wouldn't be needed
20:50:59  <Yexo> thanks pm :)
20:51:26  <Yexo> Ammler: how does that solve the issue that people want to know which strings in english.lng are not yet translated to german.lng?
20:51:26  <Ammler> you just don't translate those strings
20:51:33  <Rubidium> andythenorth: but then everybody need to be potty trained ;)
20:51:42  <andythenorth> not easy, I tell you
20:53:07  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Patch #4385: Feature: Have 'untranslatable' strings XyexoX @
20:53:17  <Ammler> Yexo: same issue you have with strings changed in parent, but you don't need to change it in the translation
20:53:30  <planetmaker> Yexo, I prepared some time ago a changelog:
20:53:35  <planetmaker> checking now how up to date it is ;-)
20:54:51  <andythenorth> hmm
20:55:01  <andythenorth> webtranslator is probably a better solution
20:55:13  <andythenorth> I already have webconfiguratemynewgrf
20:55:19  <andythenorth> for FISH and BANDIT :P
20:55:24  <andythenorth> "curl is our friend"
21:01:51  <Yexo> planetmaker: I think it's pretty up to date.
21:02:04  <Yexo> my request from the issue tracker still stands, -Add and -Feature are used inconsistently
21:02:14  <Yexo> also there are some items in there that I think are not relevant
21:02:18  <planetmaker> right, it's the same diff I guess
21:02:19  <Yexo> +- Change: publish readme and changelog
21:02:25  <Yexo> +- Change: Publish also the generated grf files from the regression test
21:02:30  <Yexo> +- Change: build windows exe after the regular build, so we get better error output
21:03:04  <Yexo> +- Fix: '{' at the end of a string shouldn't  cause a crash. <- should be rewritten to something like "-Fix: a '{' at the end of a string could cause a crash"
21:03:34  <Yexo> +- Fix: Publishing one of the generated grfs is enough. Especially if they would overwrite eachother on publishing <- another one that I think should be removed
21:03:40  *** panitaliemom has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:03:58  * andythenorth -> sleep
21:04:00  <andythenorth> bye
21:04:08  <Yexo> night andythenorth
21:04:09  <panitaliemom> hey
21:04:49  <Yexo> hi panitaliemom
21:05:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #4405 (Closed): DevZone compile failed XandythenorthX @
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21:05:58  <planetmaker> @ yexo
21:06:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #4411 (Resolved): DevZone compile failed XandythenorthX @
21:06:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #4411 (Closed): DevZone compile failed XandythenorthX @
21:06:49  <planetmaker> feature and add now separate by: "Feature" means new thing as in this was not supported before by NML while "add" means to amend a new newgrf feature in an area which was supported before (like just new value or so)
21:07:00  <panitaliemom> can i have some info please about all this things ?  cause I'm new and i dont know where i have to go lol
21:07:22  <planetmaker> though... maybe the aircraft var(s)... should then be add.
21:07:35  <Yexo> planetmaker: mind if I update the list a bit and make a release?
21:07:42  <Yexo> will post here for feedback first
21:07:47  <planetmaker> of course I don't mind. Please go ahead
21:07:49  <Yexo> panitaliemom: about which things?
21:08:01  <planetmaker> actually I'll be delighted, Yexo  :-)
21:08:03  <panitaliemom> about this channel
21:08:44  <planetmaker> this is the IRC channel for talking about stuff / development of things which are hosted on the DevZone
21:08:58  <planetmaker> which are basically 3rd-party projects related to OpenTTD in one way or another
21:09:25  <panitaliemom> okay thanks for all everybody
21:09:45  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2965:39d7ba803de3: Codechange: refactor - it's a default_sp... XandythenorthX @
21:09:46  *** panitaliemom has left #openttdcoop.devzone
21:10:08  <planetmaker> uhm... no need to understand what panitaliemon wanted, eh...
21:10:45  <Yexo> more s/feature/add and rewritten some of them to make it more consistent
21:11:05  <Yexo> I went with your suggestion to make variable/property additions an -Add and "new things" a -Feature
21:11:24  <planetmaker> CB15F is Add maybe? Not sure
21:11:34  <Brot6> firs: update from r2964 to r2965 done (3 warnings) -
21:11:59  <planetmaker> but yes... it's anyway borderline in some cases, however you do the distinction
21:13:29  <Yexo> you're right, updated and replaced number by proper name
21:13:42  <Yexo> will do the same for vehicle var 62
21:14:52  <planetmaker> hm, one small beauty change: s/CB/callback/g
21:15:17  <Yexo> done
21:16:03  <Yexo> hmm, actually the 'signals' callback for railtypes is nt other than the other callbacks, so would need to be -Add too
21:16:23  <Yexo> it still feels a bit arbitrary, do you mind if I change it to just -Feature and -Fix?
21:16:42  <Yexo> or -Add and -Fix, which is more in line with the other items already inthe changelog
21:16:51  <planetmaker> I don't mind. Was thinking about it. Make it all feature, yes
21:17:05  <planetmaker> feature sounds nicer ;-) Sells better
21:17:27  <Yexo> updated again
21:18:13  <planetmaker> no more comments :-)
21:23:02  <Yexo> thanks for all the support with this release pm :)
21:23:40  <planetmaker> :-) You deserve the credits. I just eat the fruits ;-)
21:23:43  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 2040:abf432e8d9f8: Release: 0.2.4 XyexoX @
21:23:43  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 2041:67db0fe4e9b4: Added tag 0.2.4 for changeset abf432e8d9f8 XyexoX @
21:23:43  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Support #4236 (Closed): Support for 0.2 series XyexoX @
21:25:40  <Brot6> nml: update from 0.2.3 to 0.2.4 done -
21:27:12  <Brot6> Makefile for NewGRFs: Common part - Revision 30:ae5a5e8bacdc: Codechange: Move option processing to ... XAlberthX @
21:27:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - NML 0.2.4 released XyexoX @
21:46:41  <planetmaker> Yexo, mind if I copy your release news to the NML thread in the forums?
21:46:49  <Yexo> that's fine :)
21:46:54  <Yexo> didn't get around to doing that myself just yet
21:47:03  <Yexo> got lost while reading posts from the start of that thread
21:47:22  <planetmaker> you wanna do that, then go ahead. Otherwise I press 'post' :-)
21:47:30  <Yexo> it's nice to see how much we've accomplished over 1.5 year
21:47:46  <planetmaker> yes, very much. It's really great
21:47:52  <Yexo> actually 2.5 years by now
21:47:56  <Yexo> and no, please post
21:49:49  <planetmaker> added links
21:54:39  <Brot6> Makefile for NewGRFs: Common part - Revision 31:c54085152209: Add: Allow use of an config file to re... XAlberthX @
21:54:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #4091: nmlc writes '' in working directory XyexoX @
21:57:44  <planetmaker> maybe we should make an NML party ;-)
21:58:09  <planetmaker> actually I wonder whether OpenTTD should offer download-nml similar to grfcodec etc
21:58:26  <Yexo> I don't think it matters
21:59:37  <planetmaker> likely it doesn't. But then it doesn't for grfcodec or so either
22:03:20  <Ammler> nml is available fro pypi
22:04:14  <Yexo> grfcodec is required to generate openttd.grf from source, which is part of every openttd release
22:04:20  <Ammler> if openttd provides it, it should make "real" win exes :-)
22:04:36  <Yexo> although the same could be argued since opengfx is provided by openttd
22:05:42  <Ammler> well, opengfx is there because our server was quite low back then
22:06:33  <Yexo> also nml is already provided by some major linux distributions
22:06:57  <planetmaker> well, it's certainly not something with high priority. But something for a time of "I'm bored" - should TB ever say that (again) ;-)
22:07:10  <Ammler> every distro who provides opengfx most probably provides nml
22:07:20  <planetmaker> true :-)
22:07:35  <Yexo> dunno, but debian/ubuntu/suse/redhat do
22:08:56  <Ammler> I would bet the download rate for opengfx is around 1% of what it was back then :-)
22:10:17  <Yexo> says on average 159 times a day
22:10:31  <Ammler> real people or google :-P
22:11:24  <Ammler> that is still more as I would have thought
22:11:24  <Yexo> I don't know how it's counted, but since it's a binary file I'd say mostly people
22:12:01  <Ammler> but it is without bananas right?
22:12:09  <Yexo> I don't know
22:12:35  <Yexo> when was 0.4.5 uploaded to bananas?
22:12:51  <Ammler> 25/9
22:13:05  <Yexo> it's been downloaded 12841 times via bananas since then
22:13:26  <Yexo> so +- 600 times a day
22:13:38  <Yexo> so the original number was definitely without bananas
22:13:41  <planetmaker> quite a lot :-)
22:13:59  <Ammler> bananas number are always that awesome high
22:14:39  <Yexo> total downloads for openttd (releases/nightlies/opengfx/grfcodec/etc.) are 3000-4000 a day
22:14:56  <Yexo> releases is by far the biggest part of that
22:15:08  <Yexo> so there are still a lot of people not updating opengfx while they are updating openttd
22:16:01  <planetmaker> yes. I actually wonder time and again whether we shouldn't actually think of a setting which allows auto-update. Of both, OpenTTD itself and the base sets, maybe also NewGRFs/AIs/... (those which are present already)
22:17:25  <Ammler> setting and/or command parameter
22:17:59  <Yexo> a setting which defaults to off and checks max once a day would be nice imo
22:18:17  <planetmaker> yes, default=off for political and backward reasons
22:18:28  <planetmaker> and more than once a day is folly, too
22:18:41  <planetmaker> or maybe upon startup or so
22:18:54  <Yexo> that would be annoying when developing
22:18:55  <planetmaker> but saving last check is better
22:18:58  <planetmaker> yeah
22:19:05  <Yexo> I'd like the feature, but I'd turn it off when it would check more than once a day
22:19:37  <planetmaker> yes. Daily seems concensus for such things anyway
22:19:57  <Yexo> sometimes less often, like once a week, perhaps that should be another option
22:20:05  <Yexo> but then: too many options already
22:20:06  <Ammler> the other setting is autodownload save newgrfs
22:20:14  <Ammler> (also mp)
22:20:25  <planetmaker> same setting ;-)
22:20:49  <Yexo> time to sleep
22:20:54  <Yexo> good night to both of you
22:20:58  <Ammler> well, it is different :-)
22:20:58  <planetmaker> sleep well, Yexo
22:21:04  <Ammler> nightly
22:22:23  <Ammler> the pypi publisher has still broken docs publisher
22:24:00  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #4413 (New): pypi fails to publish docs XAmmlerX @
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