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06:10:40 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:22:08 *** Zuu has quit IRC 09:38:51 <Ammler> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=openttd-opengfx&project=home%3Aopenttdcoop <-- opengfx fails the check 09:40:16 <Ammler> it needs to be a new tool, there are working 0.4.5 there 09:43:05 <Ammler> extra grf, so looks like nml, right? 09:45:02 <Ammler> nml is the only tool which I can imagine to break all distros at once 10:11:44 <planetmaker> but 0.4.5 built on our server when I pushed it 10:12:04 <planetmaker> and it should build using latext release of nml 0.2 branch 10:12:44 <planetmaker> so unless I know what error exactly occurs it's a bit hard to comment and a bit pointless to speculate 10:23:49 <Ammler> it also built on obs 10:24:09 <Ammler> if you click on a distro, you see there are already 0.4.5 packages 10:26:44 <Ammler> if it is extra only, we can exclude ply and pil, right? 11:01:00 <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Bug #4437 (New): Updating sprites XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4437 11:15:15 <Ammler> same issue with 0.4.4 11:21:19 <Ammler> planetmaker: not possible, nml 0.2.3 and 0.2.4 are makeing different sums? 11:30:47 <Ammler> Yexo: planetmaker, if I am able to confirm 0.2.3 and 0.2.4 producing different extra grf, how should we proceed? 11:31:50 <Yexo> nml 0.2 builds 'old' newgrfs, so md5sum is over the complete newgrf 11:32:02 <Yexo> it's very possible there are differences in the binary output between 0.2.3 and 0.2.4 11:32:10 <Yexo> that doesn't mean either is broken, just that they're different 11:32:40 <Yexo> planetmaker: was 0.4.5 not pushed before the nml 0.2.4 release? 11:33:50 <Ammler> yes 11:35:52 <Ammler> 0.4.5 2012-09-25 opengfx releases 11:35:54 <Ammler> 0.2.4 2012-10-14 nml releases abf432e8d9f8 11:38:27 <Ammler> [ ] openttd-opengfx-0.4.5-9.1.noarch.rpm 27-Sep-2012 20:22 3.0M Details <-- last successful build 11:38:48 <Ammler> (on obs) 11:39:22 <Ammler> planetmaker: you see, it is dangerous to ignore errors :-P 11:41:44 <Ammler> Yexo: you don't see changing md5sum as a bug? 11:42:22 <Yexo> no, I don't 11:42:32 <Yexo> I see broken grf output as bug 11:42:36 <Ammler> anyway, what shall I do? 11:43:12 <Ammler> maybe we simply release 0.4.6 11:43:16 <Yexo> if you rebuild opengfx with a different nml version you can't compare the md5sum to the md5sum of the previous version 11:43:28 <Yexo> so either force the same nml version or don't compare the md5sum 11:43:35 <Ammler> Yexo: well, that was possible before 11:43:45 <Yexo> it worked by luck, not by design 11:44:03 <Ammler> and it was with grfcodec 11:44:35 <Ammler> I guess, you added a kind of sorting to nml to reach the same effect 11:44:38 <Yexo> grfcodec is a lot simpler tool, and there have been changes to grfcodec that would break the md5sum too (r920 springs to mind) 11:45:32 <Yexo> Say you write a python program that reads "a += 1". Python 2.5 encodes it exactly like that, but in python 2.5.1 they discovered it can be executed more efficiently as "a++". Do you care what the underlying implementation is as long as the result is the same? (a increased by one) 11:45:41 <Ammler> IMO, it would be easier to make a new opengfx release which requires nml 0.2.4 11:46:05 <Yexo> but opengfx doesn't require nml 0.2.4, it works perfectly fine with 0.2.3 11:46:26 <Ammler> yep, opengfx 0.4.4 does 11:46:32 <Ammler> or 0.4.5 11:46:48 <Ammler> but it doesn't if you build with nml 0.2.4 11:46:55 <Yexo> it still works fine 11:47:00 <Ammler> no 11:47:06 <Yexo> the only thing that is broken is that the md5sum is compared, that shouldn't be done 11:47:16 <Yexo> or rather: it should only be done as long as you're sure the nml version used is identical 11:47:21 <Ammler> md5sum is essential for upgrade or is that depreciated? 11:47:50 <Yexo> not for basesets 11:48:10 <Ammler> so why is it in the obg? 11:48:23 <Yexo> if you really want binary identical output you should force a specific nml revision, not an nml release branch like 0.2 11:48:55 <Ammler> Yexo: you know, we check md5sum since ever? 11:49:23 <Ammler> this is not somethng just I introduced lately :-P 11:49:40 <Yexo> Ammler: please go compile something with grfcodec 5 and later with grfcodec 6 11:49:44 <Yexo> you'll see binary differences too 11:51:02 <Yexo> also: over the course of nml development the regression test output (.nfo and .grf) files have been changed multiple times without changes to the input files. That alone shows that there are binary incompatibilities between different versions of nml 11:51:39 <Ammler> the newgrf rebuilds show that too 11:52:12 <Ammler> the issue we still have now, what would you suggest, shall I ignore the check? 11:52:36 <Yexo> either ignore the check or force the exact same nml version 11:52:44 <Ammler> we would also need to communicate that to other mainatainers 11:53:18 <Ammler> downgrading nml could be done too 11:53:37 <Ammler> might be easiest 11:54:17 <Ammler> a bit embarasssing 11:54:17 <Yexo> why not ignore the check but update the md5sum in the obg? 11:55:09 <Ammler> well, if that is fine, I would remove the check completely 11:55:29 <Ammler> afaik, this check also helped once to find a bug in nml 11:55:45 <Yexo> true, it's useful as long as output from one nml version is compared on multiple systems 11:55:58 <Yexo> but comparing output from different nml versions is not useful, and that's what is happening now 11:56:40 <Ammler> so releasesing opengfx 0.4.6 with nml 0.2.4 would be the perfect solution 11:56:40 <Yexo> you could also write the nml version used to create the grf files in the .obg as comment, and only enable the check if the nml version is identical 11:57:00 <Yexo> Ammler: no, because then you have the same problem when nml 0.2.5 is released and 0.4.6 would be recompiled 11:57:24 <Ammler> well, you would mention the nml version with the release 11:57:39 <Ammler> BuildRequires: nml = 0.2.4 11:57:43 <Yexo> as before: if you want to make the check you have to release 0.4.6 with a requirement on nml version == 0.2.4, not nml version >= 0.2.4 11:57:51 <Yexo> so yes, that would work 11:58:17 <Yexo> maybe something for new released, imo a build issue like this doesn't qualify a new opengfx release 11:58:33 <Ammler> so I don't downgrade nor disable check for now, let's wait for pms comments 11:58:54 <Yexo> agreed, that seems best 11:59:10 <Ammler> well, there should be a solution with next openttd release 11:59:41 <Yexo> plenty of time before that 12:42:04 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #4439 (New): opengfx 0.4.5 doesn't build with nml 0.2.4 XAmmlerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4439 12:45:07 <planetmaker> <Yexo> planetmaker: was 0.4.5 not pushed before the nml 0.2.4 release? <-- drat, yes. you are right. 12:46:50 <planetmaker> Yexo, but yes, for OpenGFX we need to force a specific NML version in this case. Otherwise the distributions can't re-build OpenGFX and people who get OpenGFX from a distribution will still see their OpenGFX not match bananas' one and re-download the very same thing 12:47:43 <planetmaker> thus for OpenGFX which people want to re-build to obtain binary identical grfs we need to be very specific. Unfortunately 12:52:20 <Ammler> planetmaker: yexo just said, this isn't the case for basesets anymore 12:53:22 <planetmaker> md5sum is kinda "wrong". But the comparison of the grfstripped hash is the thing to do 12:53:25 <Ammler> well, made a ticket, would be nice to "fix" this until next openttd release 12:53:43 <Ammler> which is the same for grfs without 32bpp content 12:53:56 <Ammler> grfid -m = md5sum 12:54:49 <Ammler> I checked it as I was wondering, why sou still use md5sum :-) 12:55:26 <planetmaker> why... it's the old nml 0.2 anywhay which builds container v1 where both, md5sum and grfstrip give the same result ;-) 12:55:43 <planetmaker> opengfx default or especially zbase should use grfstrip 12:56:06 <Ammler> you could use it already, it would not matter 12:56:21 <Ammler> the result it the same 12:56:32 <planetmaker> yes, wouldn't matter. But pointless to re-invent it and backport it 12:56:36 <Ammler> it would not solve the issue we get with nml 12:56:41 <planetmaker> when it only is needed for default 12:56:52 <planetmaker> it would not, indeed. It's unrelated 12:57:55 <Ammler> the easiest from view of maintainer might still be to make a new opengfx release 12:58:30 <Ammler> since yexo's assumtion that different md5sum doesn't matter is wrong 13:00:06 <Ammler> as I would not be suprised, if other distros don't do checks 13:00:46 <Ammler> nml 0.2.4 was a bad move 13:03:38 <Ammler> and the commit which makes a new release valid is mostly force nml version 13:06:19 <Ammler> though, maybe openttd could be fixed and make md5sum check depreciated 14:54:55 <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Bug #4437: Updating sprites XRubidiumX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4437#change-12119 14:57:22 <Rubidium> Yexo/Ammler: for OpenGFX it is somewhat important that the md5sum of the GRFs matches for all distributors of OpenGFX. If this is not the case, OpenTTD will think that there is a new OpenGFX on bananas even though it's basically the same version 15:00:09 <Brot6> zBaseBuild - Bug #4437: Updating sprites XAmmlerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4437#change-12121 15:00:40 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:01:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: what's your suggestion 15:01:35 <Ammler> (for fixing current issue) 15:02:15 <Rubidium> document very clearly which NML must be used for OpenGFX. Also document the caveat of this issue w.r.t. bananas and then if there are problems, just blame the packager for not following recommendations 15:02:59 <Ammler> something like that would need a release 15:27:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:58:28 *** ODM has quit IRC 16:00:02 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/finnishtrainset registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/finnishtrainset 16:00:02 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/finnishtrainset created 16:25:21 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:27:34 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:19:59 <Yexo> c<Ammler> [15:00:46] nml 0.2.4 was a bad move <- I disagree, nml 0.2.4 was not just for opengfx 17:20:19 <Yexo> and wrt the issue: I think rb's plan is best: force specific revision and document that very clearly 17:20:31 <Yexo> if it needs 0.4.6 of opengfx to document it, that's up to you/pm 17:25:16 <Ammler> or just ignore it and wait until openttd 1.3 17:26:11 <Ammler> thei issue that if we document without release, we would need document to use 0.2.3 17:27:15 <Ammler> also IMO, the makefile should add a version check and exit 1 if not matching version 17:36:01 <Ammler> My issue is that I already submitted those packages to suse but without that we wouldn't have noticed it 17:36:35 <Ammler> maybe we need to setup rebuild check also with releaes 17:44:11 <Yexo> so resubmit to suse forming version 0.2.3? 17:46:56 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:47:52 <Ammler> well, I would just keep it as failed 17:48:09 <Ammler> until we fix it 17:49:01 <Ammler> we have opengfx 0.4.5 there, so there is no real need to get it working asap 18:18:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:18:48 <Alberth> hi andy 18:26:19 <andythenorth> lo 19:56:58 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 0:19cc33b6f9da: Set up repo XfoobarX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/revisions/19cc33b6f9da 19:56:58 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 1:a3dbb5733408: Add: makefile setup (planetmaker) XfoobarX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/revisions/a3dbb5733408 19:57:48 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 2:932dfddd43d1: Add: basic NML project setup XfoobarX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/revisions/932dfddd43d1 19:57:48 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 3:d0ed9213147d: Change: enable nightly builds XfoobarX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/revisions/d0ed9213147d 20:20:48 *** ODM has quit IRC 20:35:40 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:36:46 *** Guest3156 has quit IRC 20:37:50 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:09:24 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:14:38 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:10:56 <planetmaker> ui 22:11:02 <planetmaker> busy foobar 22:12:47 <planetmaker> Yexo, yes, there's no immediate gain for stable users in OpenGFX 0.4.5 (0.4.4 is fine for them). So we have a bit leeway. And an NML version check in OpenGFX might be best. I'll put it high in my agenda 23:36:54 *** Zuu has quit IRC