Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 2nd January 2013:
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00:18:40  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 263:fcabe38cea31: - Fix trying to remove some tiles not own by us when removin... XkrinnX @
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10:15:28  <Yoshi> Good morning :D
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10:16:32  <Yoshi> Rubidium: though... how do you synchronise A and B?
10:16:48  <Yoshi> I don't use the animation function of objects...
10:17:17  <Yoshi> I use the general variable "animation_counter" for calculating the frames...
10:17:31  <Yoshi> sprite: gfxtest(animation_counter % 32)
10:19:43  <planetmaker> Yoshi, that was Rubi's point yesterday: even if you know the absolute coordinates, there's no way to sync animation of two objects
10:20:13  <planetmaker> thus the absolute coordinates alone wouldn't help you either
10:22:17  <planetmaker> and please let me ask you again and think about the answer: what's wrong with creating an object of size 1x5 tiles which is the whole thing?
10:23:14  <planetmaker> of course every mountain is different. But so is every tile
10:23:48  <planetmaker> and like my "company land", I also use it on every tile. But you can build the cable car on the ground as 1x5 tile object and retain the complete shape of the mountain
10:23:54  <planetmaker> thus it would fit the mountains just as well
10:25:27  <planetmaker> after all: for single-tile objects you need the ground awareness. So you can do that for the multi-tile version just as well
10:27:24  <planetmaker> you could offer cable lifts of different lengths then
10:28:18  <Yoshi>
10:28:49  <Yoshi> When i use "animation_counter" it IS synchronised....
10:29:36  <Yoshi> Because it doesn't use individual animations....
10:31:18  <Yoshi> Maybe those preset tiles are a solution....
10:32:02  <Yoshi> But the original idea was to make it as a "puzzle" so you can add special tiles with ski slopes or something like this....
10:39:08  <planetmaker> though I think the sync here is using an implementation detail which is not guaranteed to remain... it works. Is there thus an issue remaining?
10:41:06  <Yoshi> With that solution i can't define which tile is in state A(start at frame 0) and which is in state B (start at frame 16)
10:41:12  <Yoshi> The rest works...
10:42:10  <planetmaker> eh? You always know the exact animation frame... Just display the proper animation frame for tiles. You don't need to know the state of others, if they all go in sync?
10:43:19  <planetmaker> think of the animation_counter as a global clock. Just look at that. from each tile
10:43:32  <planetmaker> that gives you the sync. As it gives you info at which state each tile should be at
10:43:42  <planetmaker> you just need to know the sequence of your tiles
10:44:57  <Yoshi> yes
10:45:06  <Yoshi> that syn thing works...
10:45:10  <Yoshi> sync*
10:45:19  <planetmaker> but...?
10:46:47  <planetmaker> if you have object A which shall loop 0...16 while object B shall loop 8...16 and then 0...7 (50% offset), that's easy to implement then, too.
10:47:08  <Yoshi> My hope was, that i can place the same object at position (100|28) and (100|29) and it automaticaly uses the proper state A or B
10:47:42  <planetmaker> ah... well. yes.
10:48:17  <Yoshi> And that's the reason why i'd like to use the coordinates...
10:48:37  <planetmaker> I understand
10:48:56  <planetmaker> Still I don't like the idea really. Generally it gives more problems than might be worth
10:49:21  <planetmaker> it increases overall complexit A LOT. For very little gain
10:49:41  <planetmaker> and I don't mean the newgrf code on your side
10:49:46  <Yoshi> Every tile which is on tile where (y_cooridinate % 2) = 0 has state A and tiles with (x_coordinate % 2) = 1 have state B
10:50:19  <Yoshi> But it is the way, that the users can built their cable car the most individual...
10:50:25  <planetmaker> yes. Next person wants %3 or %5 or the adjacent tile. Or whatever. And we add a special case for every such thing?
10:50:59  <planetmaker> The issue is that this thing disallows hard way to speed up anything on the map by parallelizing anything
10:51:38  <planetmaker> sorry. I still failed to see why you need a totally modular lift :-)
10:52:01  <Yoshi> Because there are different tiles:
10:52:03  <planetmaker> usually they're a few lifts chained anyway when it goes up a high mountain
10:52:12  <Yoshi> -normal cable car tile
10:52:16  <planetmaker> different tiles doesn't mean there can't be different larger objects
10:52:23  <planetmaker> which join the tiles in one object
10:52:40  <Yoshi> but then there are many objects....
10:52:41  <Yoshi> :D
10:52:50  <Yoshi> -cable car tile with pylon in the middle
10:53:00  <planetmaker> yes. because you make every type of chair one object. every type of cable etc
10:53:00  <Yoshi> -cable car tile with pylon on the right side
10:53:16  <Yoshi> -cable car tile with pylon on the left side
10:53:25  <Yoshi> -cable car tile with ski slopes below
10:53:38  <planetmaker> yes. All that could be joined to ONE object with 1x5 tiles size
10:53:40  <Yoshi> -cable car tile with (fake) street below
10:53:41  <Yoshi> ....
10:53:53  <Yoshi> -cable car stations
10:54:02  <planetmaker> that could be included as well :-)
10:54:18  <planetmaker> though maybe not for size reasons
10:54:19  <Yoshi> but where is the street? at (0|0) or (0|1) ?
10:54:53  <planetmaker> piece of advise: don't try the jack of all trades object
10:55:34  <planetmaker> (eierlegende Wollmichsau-Objekt)
10:55:35  <Yoshi> It wasn't my idea :P It was swiss fan ;)
10:55:52  <planetmaker> not every idea is practicable
10:56:07  <Yoshi> yes ;)
10:56:14  <planetmaker> or rather: street below is very little gain for huge amount of work
10:56:31  <Yoshi> I'll try something out...
10:56:44  <planetmaker> and from my POV: I'm lazy. I want the one-click object to beautify my landscape
10:57:01  <Yoshi> :D
10:57:13  <planetmaker> piecing together every single thing where it looks broken when I choose the wrong objects... meh
10:57:17  <planetmaker> this isn't a puzzle
10:57:28  <Yoshi> In my case it would be :D
10:57:48  <Yoshi> Did you played SimCity with some mods?
10:57:54  <Yoshi> There it is like this :D
10:57:56  <planetmaker> thus: one lift = one object with everything in it. Valley and hill station, cables with chairs between. Animated. Done. Length 3 ... 7 tiles. Width: 1 tile
10:58:09  <planetmaker> 15 years ago. There were no mods for simcity 1
10:58:16  <Yoshi> :(
10:58:17  <Yoshi> ;)
10:58:51  <Yoshi>
10:58:52  <Webster> Title: SimCityKurier - ansehen SFBT Park-Set Sandwege von Khiyana (at
10:59:16  <planetmaker> well. This isn't simcity. really
10:59:22  <Yoshi> yes
11:00:20  <planetmaker> I do understand what you want. But I also do believe that it's a shot slightly too far :-)
11:01:06  <planetmaker> keep it simple rules IMHO. It also keeps the object count low. Puzzling is what keeps it (very) high
11:01:25  <Yoshi> yes...
11:01:35  <planetmaker> If I play with ISR or CHIPS: I use the one-click beautiful stations. Only rarely I puzzle the extreme stations :-)
11:02:02  <Yoshi> at least i got a high execise in coding nml-newgrfs :D
11:02:13  <Yoshi> now i understand callbacks (jay)
11:02:26  <planetmaker> that is good :-)
11:16:35  <planetmaker> Yoshi, just to be sure that you understand my position on this: I understand and approve what you try to do. But I do believe that implementing that capability in OpenTTD would hurt in the long term, disallowing other more important improvements
11:17:09  <planetmaker> or rather making that unnecessarily difficult :-)
11:21:32  <Yoshi> i did'nt want you to implement something new.... :D  (ok, only thing was the y_coordinates, x_coordinates for objects :D ) but maybe i take a animation frame number of 16 so i don't have to devide in state A and B :)
11:25:28  <Yoshi> and i think there are more immportant things to implement  (like roadtypes :P)
11:28:21  <planetmaker> for instance. yes
11:28:37  <planetmaker> or newgrf bridges ;-)
11:30:53  <Yoshi> oh yes :)
11:31:11  <Yoshi> so you mean more bridges than the current number?
11:31:29  <planetmaker> and stations in NML. Yes I mean exactly that
11:31:37  <Yoshi> ok
11:32:56  <Yoshi> Yoshi wonders why roadtypes aren't implemented yet....and thinks of silly map array
11:38:16  <planetmaker> silly map array... mostly it needs conceptual decisions. As it e.g. impacts town growth and map generation (which railtypes both don't impact at all). What properties do they need?
11:38:29  <planetmaker> the map array might not be the biggest obstacle thus :-)
11:39:31  <Yoshi> are there some concepts already done?
11:40:35  <planetmaker> not really. It might all be *somewhere* in tt-forums and wiki. But I know nothing beyond that (or their actual links)
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17:19:41  <Brot6> firs: update from r3308 to r3310 done -
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19:49:46  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Silcon Valley 7 years.png XandythenorthX @
19:53:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Silicon Valley 75 years.png XandythenorthX @
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21:38:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3311:7a5c24ea1614: Fix (r3305): Portugese translation XfoobarX @
21:39:59  <Brot6> firs: update from r3310 to r3311 done -
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21:46:19  <frosch123> ohoh, ogfx that sounds like ottd :p
21:55:12  <Ammler> same as 0.4.6, just with nml 0.2.4
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22:02:11  <burtybob> I've been reading the NML tutorial but I was wondering if there is any industry examples?
22:02:26  <burtybob> Fairly simple examples that I could use to read and learn from
22:06:05  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 264:29705597d9d3: - Fix bug when failing to select a train engine and improper... XkrinnX @
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23:40:01  <planetmaker> V453000, notice the commit? I guess you can't change power anymore during servicing
23:40:19  <planetmaker> you might want to adjust NUTS accordingly
23:40:48  <planetmaker> and quickly update the bananas version as otherwise other people use the version which will cause the desync as well
23:41:21  <michi_cc> planetmaker: You're wrong here. You can safely update it now without desyncs.
23:41:39  <planetmaker> oh :-)
23:42:03  <planetmaker> I like to be wrong here :D

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