Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 11th February 2013:
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04:15:08  <Brot6> Silicon Valley - Feature Request #4925 (New): Make it work with ECS! XIronFistX @
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07:34:53  <Brot6> FISH - same_or_not.png XandythenorthX @
07:43:23  <Brot6> FISH - same_or_not_2.png XandythenorthX @
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11:03:32  <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 13:9b52c813e1d9: Codechange: Introduce a function for getting the base lang... XAlberthX @
11:03:32  <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 14:556ac2d9f958: Add: Display the list of strings of a translation, fixes i... XAlberthX @
11:42:22  <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Bug #4928 (New): blue sprite when build next to existing station XGeorgeX @
14:52:26  <Brot6> FISH - squid.pdf XandythenorthX @
15:08:14  <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 15:fb4500a9c221: Add: Link to string pages, fix project name in translation... XAlberthX @
15:08:15  <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 16:341b1f080b19: Add: String edit page. XAlberthX @
15:08:53  <Alberth>  we're getting to the juicy bits :)
15:09:40  <Alberth> unfortunately, I am somewhat out of inspiration
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15:46:08  <Rubidium> oh... WT4?
16:21:46  <Alberth> for newgrfs only currently
16:22:21  <Alberth> and no doubt I do a zillion things wrong in this version :)
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17:52:36  <Alberth> quak
17:52:48  <frosch123> moin :)
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18:20:02  <Brot6> Silicon Valley - Feature Request #4925: Make it work with ECS! XfroschX @
18:22:04  <Alberth> that gives very big challenges :)
18:22:44  <frosch123> we played it with firs :)
18:23:25  <Alberth> Is that more difficult, I'd say ECS is more difficult than FIRS
18:24:02  <Alberth> all the slow increase in production, and the messing with stockpiling :)
18:24:20  <frosch123> well, you can reduce the goal amounts :p
18:24:34  <frosch123> but anyway, i have no idea about ecs
18:25:39  <Alberth> I also never played it fully, at some point the industry gave up on me, and it was my only source of income, I gave up too :)
18:26:16  <Alberth> too much micro management for me
18:30:06  <Alberth> hmm, maybe it works better if I give textarea a name :p
18:30:15  <planetmaker> moin
18:30:37  <Alberth> planetmaker: hi!
18:31:57  <Alberth> if you have some time, I could use a bit of eints input from you
18:32:26  <planetmaker> sure, what's it?
18:32:41  <Alberth> (04:22:47 PM) Alberth:  we're getting to the juicy bits :)
18:32:41  <Alberth> (04:23:34 PM) Alberth: unfortunately, I am somewhat out of inspiration
18:33:50  <Alberth> nowadays the text is in textarea, so you can edit it, but I am quite clueless what you actually would like to have
18:34:52  <planetmaker> you mean, like I should be able to fill in the 3rd column of that table when translating, right? And wonder about how to present that to the translators?
18:35:09  <Alberth> yep
18:35:33  <Alberth> and one page before is also a puzzle, let me make a little picture of that too
18:37:20  <Alberth>  ie at the moment it is basically the same info, except for all strings
18:37:28  <Alberth> that feels very wrong :p
18:38:16  <planetmaker> wrt translating cases (1st view you provided):
18:38:36  <planetmaker> First line: English original
18:39:14  <planetmaker> 2nd line(s): case selector | text area with current translation for the selected case
18:39:27  <planetmaker> following lines (1 per case): status | case | text
18:39:55  <Alberth> you don't want to be able to edit them all ?
18:39:59  <planetmaker> possibly the first line should be lines so that the full text shows
18:40:14  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, I can edit them all. By selecting in the edit line another case
18:40:26  <planetmaker> And I have a brief overview below
18:40:32  <planetmaker> compressed to one line per case
18:40:45  <planetmaker> i.e. truncated texts possibly for lengthy ones
18:41:40  <Alberth>
18:42:35  <planetmaker> yes... that might probably be even the preferred solution for people with big screens
18:42:42  <planetmaker> I can edit everything right in place
18:43:17  <planetmaker> not sure how well it works on small screens.
18:44:00  <Alberth> not sure I want to solve that problem now :)
18:44:01  <planetmaker> Hence my suggestion to only have the base string top. Then followed by a single editable area along with the case selector to choose the case being translated. And trailing all cases shown (which might be truncated by the screen bottom on small ones)
18:44:37  <planetmaker> Or do you see a problem with which I didn't yet see?
18:46:00  <Alberth> unlikely, my main drive is to get some useful functionality
18:46:42  <Alberth> I have no good ideas about theUI, actually
18:47:34  <Alberth> One problem I see with your idea is that I currently don't know how to implement such a thing
18:49:39  <planetmaker> well, I'd not mind too much, if I had to scroll through a list to be able to edit them, I guess. Or where a click on a string would move the display such that it jumps to it becoming the one in the edit area
18:49:55  <planetmaker> Not sure about implementation problems in the least tbh.
18:50:04  <planetmaker> what's the issue you see with how I suggested it?
18:50:22  <planetmaker> <-- totally different, Alberth: s/Apply/Apple/
18:50:23  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Won't launch on Mac, gatekeeper blocks OpenTTD app (at
18:50:46  <Alberth> after you select a case, I guess you want to have the current value
18:51:08  <planetmaker> yes, that's right
18:51:13  <Alberth> but selection does not trigger a 'submit' of the form, I think
18:51:47  <planetmaker> also right... Hm... so you miss the 'submit' step in my concept. Kinda rightfully
18:52:13  <planetmaker> a 'submit' button next to the single strings?
18:52:23  <planetmaker> and a 'submit all' below?
18:52:26  <Alberth> thanks for noticing the apple thing :)
18:53:37  <Alberth> you can add a button 'load string' or so next to the case select, it looks solvable with some effort
18:53:37  <planetmaker> In that case it actually could work similar for the complete list of strings.
18:53:53  <planetmaker> why can't it load it automatically?
18:54:16  <planetmaker> a separate need for 'load string' sounds like... totally unacceptable hassle
18:54:39  <planetmaker> as it would require *select string *select case *load string...
18:54:45  <Alberth> a sumbit button labeled with the 'case' than :p
18:54:49  <planetmaker> which could be one click from a users POV
18:55:40  <planetmaker> it would be nice, if I could simply press 'submit all' after I edited wildly within the translation without re-confirming every single one
18:55:53  <planetmaker> not sure it would need a review step between
18:55:53  <Alberth> To put it simple,  doesn't say it can be done
18:55:54  <Webster> Title: Forms in HTML documents (at
18:56:18  <Alberth> so I assume you'd need javascript or so
18:56:46  <planetmaker> hm, yes... unless selection of a different string means 'auto-commit'. Which might be unwanted, too :S
18:57:23  <Alberth> well, yeah, that's another thing that pops up with one textarea
18:58:48  <planetmaker> ok, let's keep it simple w/o javascript, right?
18:59:03  <Alberth> yep
18:59:14  <Alberth> unless you want to script java :)
18:59:36  <planetmaker> not sure. Would be UI anyway "only".
18:59:49  <planetmaker> And we first want a working backend, I think
19:00:07  <Alberth> that's in quite good shape
19:00:15  <planetmaker> hm, ok
19:00:31  <Alberth> you can throw in complete language files, and it says "ok" :)
19:00:48  <planetmaker> wastes much too much screen real estate with null info
19:01:11  <Alberth> I agree fully
19:01:17  <planetmaker> the string name could be much smaller (but maybe still the same colour as there). Below, indented the English. And then the edit box(es) you show
19:01:31  <planetmaker> thus three normal lines per string
19:01:37  <Alberth> but I made it before the string screens, and have no idea what to put there
19:02:03  <Alberth> the idea is some sort of state of a language
19:02:14  <Alberth> at least, that sounds useful
19:02:52  <planetmaker> Alberth, a quick overview might be good: status | string name
19:02:55  <planetmaker> nothing else
19:03:03  <planetmaker> allows for easy updates of languages
19:03:19  <planetmaker> though... I presume one can filter for that, ... so not needed. hm.
19:03:55  <Alberth> go back one more screen? :)
19:05:56  <Alberth>  the text under the table means nothing, I just didn't remove it yet
19:14:17  <planetmaker> hm... right. But that page doesn't tell me which strings in nl_NL need taking care of. I need to be able to only deal with those which need my attention. And ignore the ready-translated strings of my language
19:17:50  <Alberth> indeed, it needs a bit of design from a user perspective
19:18:47  <planetmaker> in current openttd translator, the thing I do 99% of the time:
19:18:58  <planetmaker> "show strings needing translation / validation"
19:19:26  <planetmaker> and then go through each of them, translate and commit it. Continue with next until done. That's it
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19:19:55  <planetmaker> WT3 automatically jumps to the next string needing attention when I commit the current active one
19:20:07  <planetmaker> that's quite convenient
19:20:33  <Alberth> how does that compare to my output?
19:22:01  <planetmaker> can I edit each string in that view?
19:22:42  <Alberth> I doubt you'd want that, tbh
19:22:57  <planetmaker> why? Those are the strings which I need to edit
19:23:23  <planetmaker> in WT3 I get presented basically one string at a time with English, current translation and a submit button.
19:23:42  <planetmaker> there's also an abbreviated list or "related" strings shown...
19:24:00  <Alberth> with 5-10 strings it's fine, but what about 100 strings to translate?
19:24:06  <planetmaker> related = STR_XXX matches somewhat, or English text does. Or translated text does
19:24:25  <Alberth> I saw that, seems pretty useful :)
19:24:32  <planetmaker> Yes... might be difficult. Thus a single string view with "submit" and then the next is presented automatically
19:25:08  <planetmaker> Supercheese, wrt CanRail: spritesets look good from what I saw
19:26:04  <Supercheese> :)
19:26:05  <planetmaker> Alberth, and one-by-one is not bad, if it automatically presents you the next string to edit after a 'submit'.
19:26:16  <Supercheese> Any more sprites from DanMacK?
19:26:40  <planetmaker> I'm not sure... I think it doesn't include all from his ancient canrail tt-forums page, right?
19:26:59  <planetmaker> <-- from there
19:27:12  <Supercheese> Right, those
19:27:15  <planetmaker> it has more than are committed to the repo. Or did I check to briefly?
19:27:19  <Alberth> well, it limits the choice of in which order you want to translate, but for a first solution it's not so bad
19:27:25  <Supercheese> Yeah, that page appears to have more
19:27:40  <planetmaker> Alberth, I usually don't care too much about the order. Or rather... never ;-)
19:27:43  <Alberth> getta catch them all :)
19:27:56  <planetmaker> It only makes sense for related strings. And there just showing them helps
19:28:08  <Alberth> good point :)
19:28:33  <Supercheese> I guess if I want to have this newfangled Newgrf-webtranslator stuff, I should setup my projects on the devzone, huh...
19:28:41  <planetmaker> of course that's subjective, but that's how I work as translator :-)
19:29:13  <Alberth> Supercheese: paying me a million euros works too :)
19:29:29  * Supercheese has zero Euros
19:29:37  <Supercheese> Although currency conversion is trivial these days
19:29:46  <Alberth> but you're just a tad early, it is not working yet :)
19:30:29  <Supercheese> Well, you seem to be doing an excellent job, I'm preparing for the wave of the future :)
19:31:16  <Alberth> making it *look* useful is not so difficult :)
19:32:17  <Alberth> ok, thanks for the input planetmaker
19:35:02  <planetmaker> no problem, my pleasure, Alberth. Always again :-)
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22:18:51  <planetmaker> g'night
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