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00:13:10 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1038 to r1041 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1041 00:32:07 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1041 to r1042 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1042 07:03:41 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:05:49 *** tycoondemon2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:09:12 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 07:44:50 *** zooks has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:23:15 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:26:22 *** Rubidium_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:26:45 *** tycoondemon2 has quit IRC 08:26:45 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 08:26:45 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 08:26:45 *** dihedral has quit IRC 08:28:22 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:29:55 *** dihedral has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:55:39 *** George has quit IRC 12:30:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:42:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:50:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:57:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:35:56 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:41:41 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:43:20 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 15:53:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:10:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not sure I get the question... you mean a bus factor of 1 wrt devzone? 16:10:05 <andythenorth> yes 16:10:33 <planetmaker> not exactly, but it got worse, of course 16:10:45 <andythenorth> is he ok? 16:10:51 <andythenorth> does anyone know? o_O 16:11:04 <planetmaker> ^spike^ has full root access on DevZone's hypervisor as does dihedral 16:11:27 <planetmaker> he's ok. But quite busy, I guess mostly with RL. as far as I know 16:12:23 <andythenorth> RL :P 16:12:23 <planetmaker> I'm not entirely sure who has access to the actual account at hetzner which pays the server 16:12:30 <andythenorth> people should get their priorities correct :P 16:12:38 <planetmaker> that - as far as I know - is limited to myself and Ammler 16:12:46 <andythenorth> 1. TTD 2. RL 16:12:48 <planetmaker> or does ^Spike^ have? 16:13:49 <planetmaker> were it not 19% cheaper if ammler owned the account, I'd have tried to ask to transfer it to me. But this way... meh 16:14:45 <andythenorth> hmm 16:14:46 <planetmaker> anyway, transferring it to me might not be good. Then the bus factor with openttd contracts 'owners' would be... one :D - though of course there's more who have all login data for openttd server and ovh details 16:15:08 <andythenorth> are there backups for devzone stuff? 16:15:22 <planetmaker> on dihedral's server. We kinda backup eachother 16:15:42 <andythenorth> so we'd have a 'buy new server, restore' option? 16:15:50 <andythenorth> with maybe some problems around domains / DNS? 16:16:14 <planetmaker> yes. The *domain* #openttdcoop is owned by Osai 16:17:20 <planetmaker> but at least ammler has the ability to change that. I probably could - if I know how and where 16:17:33 <planetmaker> I never asked to do anything with DNS 16:18:48 <planetmaker> anyway, Ammler is not totally offline. shutdown the server and he'll notice ;-) We found out that when I last restarted the server :-) 16:19:22 <andythenorth> ok :) 16:20:24 <planetmaker> but I know what you mean... I'm somewhat concerned, too :S 16:20:55 <andythenorth> I am not worried 16:21:01 <andythenorth> but concerned is correct term 16:21:29 <andythenorth> I moved away from having my own site because I figure we're already very very dependent on devzone 16:21:34 * planetmaker now has to look up the difference between 'worry' and 'concern' 16:21:42 <andythenorth> one keeps you awake at night 16:21:49 <planetmaker> ah 16:21:51 <andythenorth> the other is what you think about when you start working in the morning 16:22:20 <planetmaker> ok :-) 16:22:29 <planetmaker> thanks for that lesson :-) 16:22:31 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:23:34 <planetmaker> and I agree, DevZone IMHO has become an essential part, so it needs taking care of 16:25:19 <andythenorth> I am not a good sysadmin :P 16:25:28 <planetmaker> nor am I actually... :S 16:25:30 <andythenorth> I have a self-imposed ban on sysadmin work 16:26:02 <planetmaker> :-) 16:26:42 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #6167 (New): White line above Hopper XDarthrafaelX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6167 16:29:54 <Alberth> I try to have that too, but it fails to work :p 16:31:39 <andythenorth> just break Apache a few times, then your boss will stop you doing it 16:31:40 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:31:42 <andythenorth> worked for me 16:32:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the biggest issue is actually not so much that no people have access. But that Ammler is the one who setup DevZone and only him knows well how everything works together 16:33:06 <andythenorth> hard to get around that 16:33:21 <andythenorth> systems aren't easy to document 16:33:44 <planetmaker> yes. And it's not for him not trying. He made quite some effort to do so 16:38:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:39:36 <Rubidium_> so Ammler is like TB? ;) 16:39:45 <planetmaker> kinda ;-) 16:39:48 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 16:40:13 <andythenorth> maybe we could merge them :P 16:40:33 <planetmaker> oh, no, please not :-) 16:40:34 * Rubidium wonders when they're going to replace the sysadmin at work ;) 16:41:02 <planetmaker> hehe. Still the one you told about some time ago the 'funny' stories? 16:41:10 <Rubidium> yes 16:41:13 <Rubidium> new 'funny' story 16:42:05 <Rubidium> we got a SAN/NAS with iSCSI. One machine was sharing a iSCSI volume, but started borking. So he mounted that same volume on another machine and shared that as well 16:42:38 <Rubidium> since DNS often fails in the company, many use hardcoded IP addresses, so replacing the drive letter doesn't migrate everyone 16:42:42 <Rubidium> anyhow... 16:42:56 <Rubidium> now two machines are sharing the same disk/partition 16:43:02 <Rubidium> using a file system that does NOT support that 16:43:04 <planetmaker> "nice" 16:43:50 <Rubidium> causes interesting things like: "I can't find the file, are you sure you put it there?" "Yes, I can just see it. I'll come to you to show it... heh, it's not there... but it is" 16:44:06 <planetmaker> lovely 16:44:15 <planetmaker> makes sure that work time is well-spent 16:44:18 <andythenorth> sysunadmin 16:44:53 <planetmaker> chmod a-rwx /dev/that-sysadin ;-) 16:45:38 <Rubidium> luckily when I mentioned it he rejected my initial assumption because the iSCSI software let him do it. So I aggregrated some forum posts and well... he wanted to have an explanation of those posts 16:46:12 <Rubidium> he really has no idea what's going on there 16:46:51 <Rubidium> likewise he had space issues and saw a lot of space was used by SQL. Took him only 10 months to notice that I didn't remove the SQL backups after 14 days anymore ;) 16:46:58 <Alberth> and you didn't say you apparently have less understanding than him, so maybe he should explain it to you? :p 16:47:36 <Rubidium> well... concurrency is hard to grasp 16:48:03 <Alberth> so is when to quit calling yourself an admin, apparently :p 16:50:55 <Rubidium> someone else is responsible for some other system where we see quite irrational numbers (not in the mathematical sense), but still... GPS locations like 20000, 4000 (or -15, 15 for measurements in the NL). This together with a millimeter counter that gets in the 2**32 range in the final data (which in real measurements only happens after 4000 km of measurements in a day; it resets every day and is a mm counter) 16:51:54 <Rubidium> anyhow... yet another system sends data to that system and in the logs of both systems we can see that the data sent and received is plausible. Yet, the main suspision for this problem is a loose wire between both systems 16:52:37 *** Jam35 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:56:54 <Alberth> or between the GPS and the other systems, although that wouldn't mess up the mm counter, I guess 17:00:15 <Rubidium> nah, up to the system everything seems okay. Even in the logs that show the input from the system that messes everything up 17:03:07 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:19:24 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1040 to r1042 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/nightlies/r1042 17:20:58 <Brot6> firs: compile of r3753 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r3753 17:23:19 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6074: Allow copying master language updates from RM to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6074#change-16577 17:24:55 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6080: Allow copying translation updates from the repo to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6080#change-16580 17:26:49 <Alberth> frosch123: could you look at above issues, and please tell me if and/or how the results are wrong? 17:28:09 <frosch123> target version "next" sounds awesome :) 17:28:32 <Alberth> invention by andy 17:31:55 <frosch123> 6074 looks correct 17:32:03 <andythenorth> I didn't invent it :P 17:32:08 <andythenorth> I stole it 17:32:10 <frosch123> 6080 can't be better as long as step 4 involves uploading a whole file 17:32:52 <frosch123> is to possible to upload a incomplete translation? i.e. a file only containing TEXT2 and TEXT4 ? 17:34:35 <frosch123> s/to/it/ 17:34:35 <Brot6> frosch123 meant: "is it possible to upload a incomplete translation? i.e. a file only containing TEXT2 and TEXT4 ?" 17:35:15 <Alberth> how would that help? 17:35:55 <frosch123> i would take the commit diff, delete everything but "+" lines, remove the "+" column, prepend the ## lines, and upload that 17:36:50 <frosch123> that would change all strings which changed in the repo, but keep everything else unchanged 17:36:52 <Alberth> yeah something like that, but what in the result would change 17:37:17 <frosch123> TEXT3 17:37:33 <andythenorth> hmm 17:37:33 <frosch123> TEXT 3 should be "modfied base transl" 17:37:43 <frosch123> oh, it is 17:38:01 <frosch123> sorry, i did not take a look at the picture 17:38:09 <frosch123> i thought the text said evverything :) 17:38:25 <frosch123> i think the behaviour is correct then 17:38:27 <Alberth> sorry for not being awake enough yesterday to add the final result immediately 17:38:48 <frosch123> how does it actually work? 17:39:01 <frosch123> do you detect what strings changed between uploads? 17:39:10 <Alberth> not really 17:39:41 <Alberth> when you change a string, it keeps the old copy around for some time (up to some finite max number of strings) 17:39:43 <frosch123> why does the upload not change TEXT3 to "unchanged base transl"? 17:40:38 <Alberth> when you upload a file I verify whether the string already exists. if so, I don't make it the new version, unless you force it by adding a check flag 17:40:52 <frosch123> hmm, that sounds cool 17:41:02 <frosch123> allows independent offline editign, right? 17:41:23 <Alberth> should work, I think 17:41:33 <Alberth> except you want a better file format 17:42:30 <frosch123> well, i think both 6074 and 6080 are fine then :) 17:42:53 <Alberth> file upload is mostly intended for project owners for messing up strings in large quantities :) 17:43:49 <Alberth> ok, I was hoping that it would work :) 17:44:56 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6074 (Closed): Allow copying master language updates from RM to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6074 17:44:56 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6080 (Closed): Allow copying translation updates from the repo to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6080 17:44:56 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6074 (Closed): Allow copying master language updates from RM to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6074#change-16583 17:44:56 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6080 (Closed): Allow copying translation updates from the repo to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6080#change-16586 17:45:17 <Alberth> hmm, no "not a bug" button :p 17:45:37 * andythenorth ponders 17:46:33 <Alberth> 50% of the bugs fixed :) 17:47:49 <planetmaker> hm, looks nice 17:49:03 <planetmaker> Alberth, "not a bug" is named "rejected" 17:57:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, do you have anything to push to firs right now? 17:58:15 <planetmaker> I think I found the culprit why FIRS didn't build with the change I commited... 17:58:27 <planetmaker> stupid really: commit doesn't mean that the server updates its checkout :-) 18:08:25 <planetmaker> hm, that's nice... never used it before really. kate has a 'sort selected text' function. good for FIRS' new strings :D 18:08:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have nothing right now 18:08:54 <andythenorth> just change some whitespace or something :) 18:09:00 <andythenorth> biab 18:09:51 <planetmaker> I'll simply commit the station name changes :-) 18:11:34 <Alberth> oh, like the :<start-line>, <end-line> ! sort command in vim, except vim allows any unix command instead of just sort :) 18:19:41 <planetmaker> :-) 18:20:31 <planetmaker> vim is nice for small tasks... but too cryptic to me to be my main code editor 18:24:25 <Alberth> hmm, you're probably in the better position, I hate all the other editors, as they all seem to use such cumbersome ways to edit text :) 18:25:20 <planetmaker> :-) kate has a "vi input mode" :P 18:26:08 <planetmaker> I never tried it though 18:26:20 <Alberth> yeah, but then I type stuff like :% s/\([a-z]*\) *//g and it jumps 18:28:14 <planetmaker> :-) Ok, so ... doesn't exactly work? 18:28:18 <Alberth> or even a simple :r!ls to get the directory listing in the editor 18:29:08 <Alberth> no idea, but I usually need less than an hour to find a sequence that fails to work :) 18:30:02 <planetmaker> :-) 18:31:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3754:cf91ad3e143f: Docs: improve markdown formatting for 0.... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/cf91ad3e143f 18:31:57 <planetmaker> good thing is: there's one editor for everyone :-) 18:34:45 <Brot6> firs: update from r3746 to r3754 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r3754 18:34:50 <Brot6> firs: update from r3748 to r3754 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3754 18:35:11 <planetmaker> seems to work :-) 18:35:40 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3755:b48f79f772ec: Feature #6143: Nearby station names for ... XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/b48f79f772ec 18:35:40 <planetmaker> station names submitted 18:35:47 <frosch123> \p/ 18:36:09 <planetmaker> looks like translations need an update now :-P 18:37:05 <andythenorth> la la la 18:37:09 <andythenorth> we should get a translator app 18:37:13 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/changelog.txt 18:37:16 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/changelog.html 18:37:21 <andythenorth> ^ markdown source 18:37:25 <andythenorth> then rendered html 18:37:26 <andythenorth> likey? 18:37:36 <Brot6> firs: compile of r3755 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/ERROR/r3755 18:37:47 <planetmaker> hm 18:37:50 <andythenorth> bah 18:38:04 <andythenorth> oic 18:38:05 <planetmaker> bugger 18:38:08 <planetmaker> my mistake 18:38:15 <andythenorth> compile before commit? :) 18:38:51 <planetmaker> I *think* I compiled. But I might have made that change afterwards :-P 18:39:27 <planetmaker> error looks strange 18:39:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3756:5fc64e9299a6: Docs: improve markdown formatting for 0.... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5fc64e9299a6 18:39:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3757:690c77076443: merge XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/690c77076443 18:41:06 <andythenorth> incidentally https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/130b4e2a89b6 18:41:33 <Brot6> firs: compile of r3757 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/ERROR/r3757 18:41:44 <planetmaker> lol :-) 18:41:51 <planetmaker> well. They got a much more generic name 18:42:03 <planetmaker> like 'Old Townhall' 18:44:27 <planetmaker> seems I simply missed that industry and indeed removed those strings w/o re-compile. oh well :-) easy fix 18:44:39 <planetmaker> orchard will get 'Horse market' as station name :-P 18:44:55 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 179:03483a53488e: Change: [compiler] Use openSUSE 12.3 (Ammler) XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/03483a53488e 18:44:55 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 180:e7c2f9000979: Add: [mercurial] check for repositories in backup.s... XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/e7c2f9000979 18:44:55 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 181:cb5ed1bc372f: Add: [mercurial] google-analytics.diff (Ammler) XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/cb5ed1bc372f 18:45:20 <planetmaker> that is *very* slow now :-P ^ 18:45:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: using text as input format is always useful :) I use restructured text for that 18:45:45 <andythenorth> I considered rst 18:45:50 <andythenorth> but markdown was easy :P 18:46:03 <Alberth> it's more wiki-ish :) 18:46:26 <frosch123> wasn 18:46:31 <andythenorth> also "all the cool kids use markdown" 18:46:43 <frosch123> 't it andy who said: why wiki if you can use plain html? 18:46:43 <andythenorth> due to github 18:46:50 <andythenorth> and I want to keep up with the cool kids 18:47:06 <andythenorth> can I paste html into forums? 18:47:52 * andythenorth can't be bothered to test :P 18:47:56 <andythenorth> doesn't matter 18:48:57 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3758:e5e3b0c429ee: Fix (r3755:b48f79f772ec): Missed two ind... XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/e5e3b0c429ee 18:50:56 * andythenorth runs a 3 min FIRS build again :D 18:51:50 <Brot6> firs: update from r3754 to r3758 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3758 18:52:44 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #6161 (Closed): Convert changelog to markdown XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6161#change-16592 18:52:54 <andythenorth> so where would you expect to find a link to changelog in here? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 18:53:03 <andythenorth> under 'Download' ? 18:53:09 <andythenorth> in global navigation (short of space there) 18:53:49 <andythenorth> under "4. What's Next?" 18:59:19 <planetmaker> hm... difficult 19:00:10 <andythenorth> I think under "1. Download FIRS" 19:00:20 <planetmaker> yeah... possibly 19:00:30 <andythenorth> ottd puts changelog near download link 19:00:32 <andythenorth> good enough 19:00:35 <planetmaker> A button labelled "What's new?" 19:00:50 <planetmaker> or simply "Changelog" 19:00:58 <planetmaker> possibly best naming ;-) 19:02:31 <planetmaker> you really have excellent documentation for that set 19:04:45 <planetmaker> the ingame readme is not automatically generated, no? 19:05:00 <andythenorth> hmm 19:05:16 <andythenorth> it has a few templated things 19:05:20 <andythenorth> but no autogeneration 19:05:40 <andythenorth> I cut most of it out and linked to online docs 19:05:45 <andythenorth> easier to maintain 19:06:00 <planetmaker> I see, yeah 19:06:49 <planetmaker> I actually wonder what parts I can and should add to the project template, to make-nml 19:07:22 <planetmaker> I guess it requires to write the code in the whole template way you did... 19:07:41 <planetmaker> which is a big change 19:08:19 <Alberth> extend nml to generate docs :p 19:08:30 <planetmaker> :D 19:09:23 <andythenorth> templating stuff like this is quite easy 19:09:35 <andythenorth> it just requires some choices :P 19:09:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #5990 (Closed): Docs - add changelog link XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5990#change-16595 19:09:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3759:3e729ea8bf11: Docs: add changelog link to Get Started ... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/3e729ea8bf11 19:11:03 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3760:942bb2e4266a: Docs: format the markdown wrapper templa... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/942bb2e4266a 19:11:38 <andythenorth> hmm 19:12:30 <Brot6> firs: update from r3758 to r3759 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3759 19:14:37 *** LordAro is now known as Guest2660 19:14:37 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:15:51 <Brot6> firs: update from r3759 to r3760 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3760 19:18:16 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3761:dbd6ed6a66f9: Docs: make changelog its own section of ... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/dbd6ed6a66f9 19:18:22 *** Guest2660 has quit IRC 19:20:58 <Brot6> firs: update from r3760 to r3761 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3761 19:21:27 <andythenorth> changelog got its own section with nav in sidebar http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 19:24:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: new names are definitely more fun 19:24:44 <andythenorth> duno what the foamers will think of them :) 19:25:13 <andythenorth> 'Portland' is an odd one 19:25:50 <planetmaker> maybe... maybe it should be something something like docks. Or alike 19:25:56 <planetmaker> or quay 19:26:19 <andythenorth> Quay 19:26:27 <andythenorth> wharves 19:26:28 <andythenorth> pier 19:26:35 <andythenorth> waterfront 19:26:41 <andythenorth> harbour 19:26:43 <andythenorth> are all nice 19:26:52 <andythenorth> I am favouring a list :D 19:28:36 <andythenorth> we just need an OTTD dev to extend newgrf for us ;) 19:28:37 <andythenorth> is all 19:31:53 <planetmaker> :-) 19:32:35 * Alberth wonders how nml will get additional functionality 19:33:09 <andythenorth> in absence of devs? 19:33:31 <planetmaker> yes... 19:33:39 <andythenorth> well 19:33:48 <andythenorth> maybe we hope some devs come back? o_O 19:33:56 <Alberth> you claimed "we just need an OTTD dev to extend newgrf" ;) 19:34:10 *** George has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:34:35 <Alberth> so nml extension would be done by magic, which is most interesting :D 19:34:43 <andythenorth> if it's a CB, it is pretty simple 19:34:48 <andythenorth> properties I haven't looked 19:35:03 <planetmaker> properties are easier than this callback, I'd think 19:35:05 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Membership #6170 (New): Applying for project: TREE AI XzooksX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6170 19:35:23 <Alberth> s/TREE/THREE/ ? :) 19:35:23 <Brot6> Alberth: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed" 19:35:25 <andythenorth> I extended nml support for cb 15F when it was added 19:35:31 <andythenorth> although that cb was pretty simple 19:35:39 <zooks> na it plants trees ;) 19:36:08 <Alberth> weird way to run a profitable company :) 19:36:28 <zooks> its an environmentalist AI 19:36:38 <andythenorth> call it treehugger 19:36:55 <planetmaker> zooks, ai-tree as URL? Would be consistent with other AIs here 19:37:09 <planetmaker> hehe, ai-treehugger is nice :D 19:37:30 <planetmaker> zooks, you might want to make that a game script maybe? 19:37:49 <zooks> where would a gamescript get the money? 19:37:50 <Alberth> we need support for multiple GSes :) 19:38:02 <zooks> planetmaker, ai-tree is fine 19:38:05 <Alberth> GSes don't need money 19:38:05 <planetmaker> zooks, god mode. no money required, I'd guess? 19:38:12 <andythenorth> Alberth but how to be sure they are orthogonal? 19:38:28 <andythenorth> or just don't worry about that? 19:38:46 <zooks> since when can a GS build in god-mode? 19:38:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: assume the user knows what he's doing :) 19:39:08 <Alberth> zooks: since its birth 19:39:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: all this experience, and still you ignore the evidence :) 19:39:13 <planetmaker> zooks, since their introduction 19:39:33 <andythenorth> mm 19:39:37 <planetmaker> it's a game script. It's god 19:39:42 <andythenorth> extending grfcodec is probably the harder problem than nml? 19:39:43 <Alberth> andythenorth: as long as I am not bothered about it, /me doesn't care much 19:39:49 <planetmaker> it can only also mimic anyone else 19:39:56 <zooks> hmm, I missed that. I though for it to e.g. delete houses it needs to have a company-id 19:40:25 <planetmaker> not as game script 19:41:03 <Alberth> grfcodec is a bigger challenge as it's C (?) but a smaller challenge as it only does hex numbers 19:41:19 <andythenorth> we need some apprentices 19:41:38 <Alberth> preferably ones that do what we want 19:41:41 <andythenorth> ideally ones who don't need training :P 19:42:03 <planetmaker> I think both can be done relatively easy, extending grfcodec and NML with a new callback or property to an existing feature 19:42:03 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/ai-tree registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/ai-tree 19:42:03 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/ai-tree created 19:42:04 <andythenorth> wanted: competent developers to do our bidding. Wages: none 19:42:07 <Alberth> but they are rare unless you pay lots of money :) 19:42:10 <planetmaker> ^ there you go, zooks 19:42:14 <andythenorth> hey, maybe we could give them equity? o_O 19:42:24 <planetmaker> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-tree/settings 19:42:35 <andythenorth> give them 30% of shares of nml 19:42:38 <andythenorth> winner 19:42:48 <Alberth> :D 19:43:00 <zooks> planetmaker, thanks. Maybe it is indeed suited better as a GS, when multiple GS are possible in the future though 19:43:10 <Alberth> techies don't care much for money :p 19:43:44 <planetmaker> zooks, not sure there'll ever be several GS. But it might be feasible to make them somewhat modular 19:43:51 <Alberth> zooks: that's not decided at all, I just stated it here as a wanted extension 19:44:00 <andythenorth> actually I file station name lists under 'meh' 19:44:08 <Alberth> but there are a zillion such extensions 19:44:28 <andythenorth> more code to maintain, more docs, more discussion, more spec, more...stuff 19:44:33 <andythenorth> tmwftlb 19:44:39 <andythenorth> next idea? :P 19:44:43 <planetmaker> lol 19:44:44 <Alberth> it would be nice if you could hook the town names into it 19:45:21 <andythenorth> in which direction? 19:45:32 <andythenorth> it does get the town name from the industry already 19:45:43 <Alberth> construct station names like town names 19:46:24 <zooks> I understood that, though it would be nice to have things like towncars and trees handled by gamescripts instead of cheating AIs. 19:46:28 <planetmaker> hm, extending townname newgrfs with station names? 19:46:42 <planetmaker> zooks, yes. I think we all agree there :-) 19:47:27 <planetmaker> I'm not too much involved in scripts nor AIs... but I've the feeling it would need GS libraries :-) 19:47:46 <Alberth> why do you want to plant trees btw, most people think we have too many of them already 19:48:18 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 19:48:32 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:49:01 * planetmaker is one of those people 19:49:02 <zooks> it plants less 19:49:13 <planetmaker> how can it plant less? Bulldoze? 19:49:24 <zooks> no, you disable tree growth as setting 19:49:36 <planetmaker> ah 19:49:38 <zooks> then you specify the amount of trees the ai builds 19:49:40 <Alberth> and it almost works :p 19:50:36 <Alberth> ah ok, a work around to extending the openttd code itself thus 19:50:57 <Alberth> good night 19:51:00 <zooks> indeed 19:51:35 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 19:51:45 <zooks> example: http://i.imgur.com/YA5Kpf2.png 19:52:39 <planetmaker> :-) 19:53:04 <andythenorth> what I _could_ do - instead of inventing new spec items.... 19:53:08 <planetmaker> indeed you could also try t o change openttd code itself. A tree growth algorithm which keeps some free land would be nice imho 19:53:11 <andythenorth> ...is finish content for the spec we already have :P 19:53:31 <andythenorth> but 'new' is much more exciting 19:53:37 <zooks> I think there was a patch for that at some point 19:53:40 <planetmaker> and which pays special attention to forest huts 19:53:47 <planetmaker> was there? was it good? 19:54:05 <zooks> I cannot remember :-) 19:54:17 <zooks> I'm not even sure there was tbh 19:54:20 <planetmaker> hehe, andythenorth, yes :-) 19:54:38 <andythenorth> oh 19:54:44 <andythenorth> we should have played a test FIRS game by now :P 19:54:48 <andythenorth> I need to test this economy 19:54:56 <planetmaker> I don't recall such patch... but well, that has little meaning wrt its existence 19:55:09 <planetmaker> I've some time this week 19:55:25 <andythenorth> I have Friday perhaps 19:55:31 <andythenorth> other days not :( 19:55:36 *** ODM has quit IRC 19:55:37 <planetmaker> ok, Friday 19:56:08 <andythenorth> :) 19:56:15 <andythenorth> it takes that long to prep a savegame anyway 19:59:25 <andythenorth> herp 19:59:27 <andythenorth> gimp :( 19:59:37 <planetmaker> what about it? 20:00:41 <planetmaker> get 2.8 and use one-window mode, if you're lost in its many windows 20:00:56 <andythenorth> yeah I have that 20:01:01 <planetmaker> (I got used to the many, though) 20:01:03 <andythenorth> buttons don't look buttons :) 20:01:11 <andythenorth> and the file browser is bonkers 20:01:12 <andythenorth> but nvm 20:01:13 <Brot6> Treehugging AI - Revision 0:a1f30fb31883: initialise repository XzooksX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-tree/repository/revisions/a1f30fb31883 20:01:14 <andythenorth> job done 20:01:14 <planetmaker> he 20:01:32 <planetmaker> why do you use gimp anyway? Aren't you a photoshop user? 20:03:10 <andythenorth> coxx sent me a .xcf 20:03:13 <andythenorth> needed to export it 20:03:57 <planetmaker> vice versa the problem does not exist ;-) 20:04:23 <planetmaker> isn't there like a plug-in for that? 20:05:21 <planetmaker> granted, for opengfx+landscape, all the repo has are xcf files. With a few remaining exceptions 20:06:30 <andythenorth> installign gimp was quicker than trawling the web for plugins ;) 20:06:35 <planetmaker> :-) 20:06:42 <andythenorth> using gimp...hmmm...less so 20:06:43 <andythenorth> but worked 20:07:31 <planetmaker> the more you use it, the better it gets :-P 20:10:50 <Brot6> fish: update from r1041 to r1042 done (8 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/push/r1042 20:10:57 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 1042:3a16a5869eb7: Change: graphics for Little Cumbrae Freighter (coxx) - known issu... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/3a16a5869eb7 20:17:50 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 1043:c6931bd90f8a: Change: two graphical variations for Little Cumbrae Freighter XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/c6931bd90f8a 20:17:57 <Brot6> fish: update from r1042 to r1043 done (8 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/push/r1043 20:17:57 * andythenorth needs to convert FISH 2 to better methods :P 20:18:14 <planetmaker> :-) 20:18:14 <andythenorth> why ever release, when you can rewrite the code endlessly? o_O 20:18:45 <planetmaker> I ponder for some time if I just should push tag 1.0.0 to ogfx-landscape 20:18:54 <planetmaker> and deal with the small missing stuff as people find it :-P 20:19:00 <andythenorth> 1.0.0 is a pretty good pyschological step 20:19:16 <andythenorth> I am having *much* more fun with FIRS now it's not some kind of obligation 20:19:23 <planetmaker> :-) 20:19:33 <planetmaker> maybe I should do that, too 20:19:49 <andythenorth> hmm 20:19:56 <planetmaker> and with swedishrails... just re-tag ;-) 20:20:00 <planetmaker> and opengfx :-P 20:20:01 * andythenorth considers playing openttd 20:20:17 <planetmaker> but meh... opengfx needs... nml release :S 20:20:28 <andythenorth> actually, should I fix the mud tile for nml? 20:20:53 <andythenorth> do you know the issue (it's subjective) 20:21:26 <planetmaker> I faintly recall some discussion. but can you please refresh my memory? 20:21:49 <andythenorth> 10s 20:23:11 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5018/2022.png 20:23:14 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - 2022.png XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5018/2022.png 20:23:19 <andythenorth> I think the ogfx version just lacks character 20:24:21 <andythenorth> but it's very subjective 20:24:38 <planetmaker> as in missing the tracks? 20:24:44 <zooks> planetmaker, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=824912#p824912 20:24:45 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [patch] trees growth reduced (at www.tt-forums.net) 20:24:46 <planetmaker> it's... well, muddy 20:24:57 <andythenorth> yes, tracks are very faint 20:25:00 <andythenorth> they are there I think 20:26:40 <planetmaker> so what to do, if one doesn't want a blunt copy? 20:27:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - mud.png XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5021/mud.png 20:28:03 <andythenorth> original base set also has more difference between 'mud' and 'cleared land' 20:28:08 <andythenorth> ogfx not so much 20:28:18 <andythenorth> I dunno 20:28:27 <planetmaker> that fits with TTD, yes. But with OpenGFX? opengfx uses the same sprite even, I think 20:28:29 <andythenorth> fixing this won't stop people moaning about CHIPS 20:28:36 <andythenorth> maybe it's not the right thing to do 20:29:31 <planetmaker> I would not mind a change. But it need be convincing. And be in-character with OpenGFX 20:30:03 <planetmaker> as my playground for groundtiles I have anyway opengfx+landscape ;-) 20:30:28 <planetmaker> easier changed there than in opengfx 20:30:38 <andythenorth> hmm 20:30:41 <andythenorth> maybe we leave it be :) 20:30:50 * andythenorth plays openttd for a bit 20:31:17 <planetmaker> I don't say that. But... I need a suggestion :-) I assume you showed me ttd and opengfx tiles - not other firs tiles, yes? 20:31:52 <andythenorth> yes, just base set 20:31:57 <andythenorth> the real issue comes with CHIPS 20:32:01 <andythenorth> (try it...) 20:32:35 <planetmaker> yeah... the muddy ground tiles 20:32:48 <planetmaker> but... can't it reference the base set's sprites? 20:32:53 <andythenorth> stations can't 20:32:59 <planetmaker> and compose the tile layout...? oh drat 20:33:03 <planetmaker> bloody stations 20:33:08 <andythenorth> bloody stations 20:33:23 <planetmaker> *that*s a feature request :-) 20:33:27 <andythenorth> it also causes issue with wider or narrower railtypes 20:33:37 <andythenorth> because the 'ground' is an overlay :P 20:33:55 <planetmaker> how does that cause issues? 20:35:29 <planetmaker> (sorry, I'm not much into station specs... I avoided them so far as much as I could) 20:41:22 <andythenorth> so to match 'mud' I have to draw 'mud' 20:41:23 <andythenorth> oh 20:41:34 <andythenorth> one solution would be to simply stop using the base set mud tile for FIRS :) 20:41:42 <andythenorth> didn't consider that properly 20:41:50 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't use base set concrete, cobble etc 20:44:18 <andythenorth> problem goes away 20:44:36 <planetmaker> hm. Maybe 20:44:52 <planetmaker> still, I believe that stations should be able to reference base set sprites... 20:45:21 <planetmaker> it sounds to me like a big missing feature for that ... feature 20:45:48 <andythenorth> I am +1 to that 20:45:59 <andythenorth> well they can reference base set sprites fine 20:46:14 <andythenorth> but they can't use it for ground 20:46:21 <andythenorth> on track tiles 20:47:20 <planetmaker> sounds stupid limitation. probably there's some reason for it... probably as that track tiles themselves are ground and that there are no track-only sprites for default railtypes 20:47:48 <andythenorth> it's simply the order of drawing iirc 20:48:09 <andythenorth> which is necessitated by what you just said 20:49:10 <planetmaker> I wonder whether that can be... changed. To drawing the overlay sprites instead. or something 20:49:12 <planetmaker> hm... 20:50:57 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:50:57 <planetmaker> he, looking at toyland... some of those industry ground tiles have more character than the default mud 20:51:59 <andythenorth> :) 20:57:34 <planetmaker> aha... that explains it... I simply forgot to generate and replace road sprites in toyland... 21:03:05 <planetmaker> hm... triggers re-generation of all road and rail sprites... 21:03:51 <planetmaker> biggest advantage of gimp 2.8 over 2.6 is that it doesn't crash anymore when run in parallel in batch jobs 21:13:49 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 226:179b872856a1: Feature: Gridless roads in toyland climate XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/revisions/179b872856a1 21:14:12 <planetmaker> ^ cheap solution. I wonder if anyone will notice 21:14:28 <planetmaker> it's not toyland roads. But re-used tropical ones. They differ somewhat. But not too much 21:16:29 *** Jam35 has quit IRC 21:16:43 <andythenorth> should be fine 21:17:17 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Bug #3234 (Closed): alignment of arctic tracks XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3234#change-16598 21:28:24 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:45:22 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:50:52 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature #3306 (Closed): waves around wind turbine base when placed on water XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3306#change-16601 21:50:52 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 227:333e17e55cd6: Feature #3306: Swell around off-shore wind turbines XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/revisions/333e17e55cd6 22:03:57 *** LordAro has quit IRC 22:35:34 *** zooks has quit IRC 23:41:30 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:45:06 *** Guest2692 has quit IRC 23:45:06 *** V453000 has quit IRC 23:46:06 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 23:47:32 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:48:32 *** planetmaker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone