Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 18th August 2013:
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06:44:51  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
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07:38:13  *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
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10:44:30  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 182:736bec150eb1: Add: Crontab script to create empty after project c... XAmmlerX @
10:53:36  <Alberth> hi Ammler
10:53:44  <Alberth> glad to see you again here
10:53:51  <^Spike^> i think...
10:53:53  <^Spike^> i know what that is...
10:54:09  <^Spike^> planetmaker just commited a change to a repo of our own with some maintenance scirpt
10:54:18  <^Spike^> a commit done by ammler
10:54:21  <^Spike^> but wasn't pushed yet
10:54:31  <Alberth> :(
10:55:20  <^Spike^> wish it was Ammler himself cause then he still wouldn't be replying here.. but mostly in our private channel cause of my questions :D
10:56:15  <Alberth> that's ok; it's unlikely that I want to know what you guys talk about :)
11:03:11  <planetmaker> sorry for the fake... hg -u was my friend
11:03:38  <planetmaker> it wasn't committed. I comitted it in his name as it's his work
11:04:49  <KenjiE20> so that when you run blame it comes up with him :p
11:05:11  <Alberth> of course :D
11:05:52  <^Spike^> that's what you always do right? ;)
11:13:28  <Alberth> hardly, in practice. blame is usually used to find the revision that added some line
11:14:23  <planetmaker> true :-)
11:17:00  <^Spike^> or... when you have a bot build every commit... and let it blame the person live on IRC for breaking stuff :D
11:22:21  <Alberth> many build systems can do that stuff, automagically emailing the committer when a revision breaks :)
11:23:01  <^Spike^> but that's no fun for the rest of the world ;)
11:24:47  <^Spike^> a collabrative notepad ;)
11:24:55  <Alberth> news is overrated in this era of mobile phones and internet, everybody is scared to death to miss some item even if they cannot do anything with it or about it
11:25:15  <^Spike^> bleh
11:25:16  <^Spike^> wrong chat :D
11:25:29  <Alberth> :D
11:25:55  <Alberth> sorry to spoil your fun
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12:42:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 2094:763d89426ca1: Fix #5012: Try harder to import the image library... XplanetmakerX @
12:42:11  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #5012 (Closed): Problem with PIL in OS X XplanetmakerX @
12:43:04  <planetmaker> ^ ty Alberth :-)
12:43:37  <Alberth> oh, you figured out how to reproduce the problem :)
12:44:22  <planetmaker> well... sadly not exactly
12:44:57  <planetmaker> I hope to hear back from dandan if it's not a fix for him
12:45:34  <Alberth> It should be a safe change anyway, I just added the original option as another fallback to try
12:46:01  <planetmaker> on my machine the images from the macports dir seem not to be found somehow... oh well. And yes. That's why I deemed it a safe solution. Can't hurt
12:46:21  <Alberth> not much, at least ;)
12:46:28  <planetmaker> :-)
12:47:14  <planetmaker> back to toying with devzone compilers
12:47:25  <Alberth> oh joy :p
12:47:35  <planetmaker> yup :-D
12:47:53  <planetmaker> but it's not that bad as I thought once I really got started with it
12:47:54  <Alberth> upgrading the system?
12:48:02  <planetmaker> kinda. More re-building
12:48:24  <Alberth> ah, ok
12:48:25  <planetmaker> mysql -> psql is more than a simple switch. And then we can re-do compilation to not rely on the suse services as well
12:48:42  <^Spike^> and we can more give servers a certain "role" to do
12:48:46  <^Spike^> aka separate stuff more
12:48:59  <^Spike^> instead of having a 1 server does it all model... :)
12:49:04  <planetmaker> so ^spike^ and myself rebuild everything in small pieces, trying to figure out how it works as we go. And re-building the same or similar functionality
12:49:04  <^Spike^> else we wouldn't have needed openvz :D
12:49:08  <Alberth> once you start pulling, everything starts tomove :D
12:49:26  <planetmaker> kinda^
12:49:41  <planetmaker> yeah, having plenty containers at our disposal is... nice
12:49:46  <planetmaker> hm... ssh to your container
12:49:55  <planetmaker> ah, there was a psql issue, right?
12:50:16  <planetmaker> hm... we do already have a psql server now, Alberth
12:51:01  <Alberth> nice, that's one step towards getting eints up & running :)
12:51:28  <planetmaker> all your fault! ;-)
13:02:28  <^Spike^> pm you know we had this plan for longer now....
13:02:38  <^Spike^> oh wait... no still Alberth fault for making us do it! :D
13:03:07  <Alberth> check your version system before blaming me  :D
13:04:00  <^Spike^> get commit latest: author Alberth Message: I must haz postgrez!
13:04:03  <^Spike^> Blame author!
13:04:03  <^Spike^> :D
13:04:08  <planetmaker> :D
13:04:15  <^Spike^> fixed! :D
13:04:43  <planetmaker> Alberth, eints VM needs python3, yes?
13:04:54  <Alberth> but I hope it gives a good result, and Brot6 will be happily with us for a long time
13:05:04  <planetmaker> brot... might retire :D
13:05:06  <^Spike^> ehm...
13:05:09  <^Spike^> Brot6.....
13:05:13  <^Spike^> yeah we need to talk about that...
13:05:13  <^Spike^> :D
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13:05:32  <Alberth> planetmaker: the other option is to rewrite eints in some other language :p
13:05:47  <^Spike^> we prefer that actually... as we have not made any big changes yet.. ;)
13:05:52  <planetmaker> [x] python3 required
13:05:55  <planetmaker> [ ] rewrite eints
13:05:56  <planetmaker> ok
13:06:08  <^Spike^> is that the todo list?
13:06:14  <^Spike^> why is that requirement there then? :)
13:06:18  <^Spike^> if you're rewriting it anyway? :D
13:06:22  <planetmaker> ;-)
13:06:44  <planetmaker> ok... but it "just" need be present
13:06:50  <frosch123> everyone agreed that psql is better, you just need to do the work :p
13:06:53  <planetmaker> so... c6 or d7 machine?
13:06:59  <planetmaker> for eints?
13:07:15  <^Spike^> do you have any 32-bit dependencies?
13:07:43  <andythenorth> rewrite eints? o_O
13:07:56  <planetmaker> :D
13:08:02  <planetmaker> he woke up :-) HI andy
13:08:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: no, bash admins to use proper software :p
13:08:28  <^Spike^> use bash?
13:08:31  <^Spike^> sure bash will be installed
13:08:32  <^Spike^> done!
13:08:36  <^Spike^> hf rewriting! :D
13:08:43  <planetmaker> :D
13:08:48  <frosch123> are you sure it is a real bash?
13:08:53  <frosch123> no dash or something?
13:09:02  <^Spike^> bourne against shell it says
13:09:02  <^Spike^> :D
13:09:07  <^Spike^> again*
13:09:21  <planetmaker> [root@cimarosa ~]# bash --version
13:09:21  <planetmaker> GNU bash, Version 4.1.2(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)
13:09:24  <planetmaker> I think so :-)
13:09:37  <^Spike^> that's the HV... i was talking about their container :D
13:09:45  <planetmaker> pssst!!!
13:10:26  <andythenorth> it's probably about time to start a rewrite anyway
13:10:37  <andythenorth> as it's not reached v1.0 yet
13:10:41  <planetmaker> hehe :D
13:10:50  <^Spike^> planetmaker we have good ideas for these guys....
13:10:55  <^Spike^> maybe they can rewrite ro mariadb ;)
13:10:55  <andythenorth> best time to start rewrite is just before you could have released it
13:10:57  <planetmaker> quite
13:11:03  <^Spike^> to*
13:11:33  <Alberth> nah, you'd be out of work then
13:11:50  <planetmaker> so... you want centos6 or debian7, Alberth ?
13:11:57  <Alberth> yes
13:11:58  <^Spike^> or arch?
13:12:01  <planetmaker> it's a question of supported lifetime of the OS
13:12:22  <Alberth> if it has python3, all is fine
13:12:38  <^Spike^> then sounds like arch it is...
13:12:40  <^Spike^> or freebsd?
13:12:56  <Alberth> does it have psql support for python3?
13:13:03  <Alberth> if so, ok by me :)
13:13:08  <^Spike^> freebsd can choose it any way you want to have it.. ;)
13:13:13  <^Spike^> you'll just hate it for the way it works
13:13:19  <^Spike^> and you prob still have to rewrite everything
13:13:22  <andythenorth> everyone hates freebsd no?
13:13:22  <^Spike^> cause it's userland ;)
13:13:43  <andythenorth> we used freebsd for years, been switching new boxes to Cent OS
13:13:44  <Alberth> I have run freebsd for several years :)
13:14:53  <^Spike^> at work we try to get rid of freebsd until it's @ version 10 or so
13:15:02  <^Spike^> then they have implemented proper package management
13:15:09  <^Spike^> cause freebsd learned it's losing users cause of that...
13:15:12  <^Spike^> and i hate it aswell
13:15:16  <^Spike^> oh you need a php module sure....
13:15:18  <^Spike^> pkg_delete -a
13:15:21  <^Spike^> and recompile all
13:15:38  <^Spike^> cause the moment you have older ports and want a new module it wants all new packages :)
13:16:02  <Alberth> all fresh and shiny!
13:16:03  <^Spike^> aka need php module... suddenly you get php 55 while you had 54
13:16:15  <Alberth> lol
13:16:16  <^Spike^> then it breaks cause you have pcre 831 and it needs 832
13:16:17  <^Spike^> etc etc etc
13:17:24  <planetmaker> debian7 it is
13:18:30  <Alberth> that has a longer lifetime than centos 6? :o
13:18:55  <^Spike^> nah
13:18:58  <^Spike^> but it's more recent
13:19:03  <^Spike^> package wise it might be better
13:19:13  <^Spike^> centos relies on python2.6 or so
13:19:21  <^Spike^> and it's hard to update... cause yum relies on python :D
13:19:31  <andythenorth> :o
13:19:34  <planetmaker> yes... I saw that people complained about lack of python3. Thus debian was my choice
13:19:52  <Alberth> yeah, at work, they installed python2.7 locally
13:19:58  * andythenorth didn't realise it was so complicated
13:20:03  <^Spike^> centos (or rather RHEL) does not add new major versions in their releases
13:20:09  <^Spike^> it might be in RHEL7
13:20:26  <^Spike^> they pick a major and stick with it... and do escurity backports
13:22:24  <Alberth> andythenorth: we found mysql was a s good as dead, and not supported by Python 3, which was taken as an excuse to turn the devzone upside down for some maintenance :)
13:22:32  <andythenorth> mysql is dead
13:22:37  <andythenorth> what are we using instead?
13:22:42  <planetmaker> psql
13:23:03  <andythenorth> interesting
13:23:14  <^Spike^> mysql is not really dead.... but it's ehm... got a oracle finger in there... which stirs it around... but well... they don't care about updating cause...
13:23:19  <^Spike^> well they sell oracle DB themselves
13:23:33  <^Spike^> and maintaining 2 DB projects is kind of a waste
13:23:33  <^Spike^> money wise in their eyes
13:23:36  <^Spike^> so basicly they just let it bleed :D
13:23:45  <andythenorth> seen sqlalchemy?
13:23:46  <Webster> Title: SQLAlchemy - The Database Toolkit for Python (at
13:23:48  <andythenorth> has a good rep
13:23:59  <andythenorth> haven't used it personally, know people who have
13:24:01  <Alberth> especially when you don't make money with one of the DBs :)
13:24:04  <andythenorth> just in case we need it in future...
13:24:35  <Alberth> for banananas!  :p
13:24:59  <andythenorth> supports python 3
13:25:10  <^Spike^> isn't sqlalchemy just one of those adapters that you can say: i want mysql now...
13:25:15  <^Spike^> oh wait.. do sqlite...
13:25:19  <^Spike^> no.. no.... try psql
13:25:20  <andythenorth> more or less
13:25:29  <planetmaker> Alberth, try ssh -p13522
13:25:31  <andythenorth> but also gives you an abstraction to sensible python objects
13:25:37  <andythenorth> instead of queries
13:25:41  <^Spike^> true....
13:25:56  <andythenorth> is banaanananaas sticking with Django?
13:25:56  <^Spike^> i made my java projects just have a single file with all SQL queries in it (Yes i was lazy)
13:26:07  <^Spike^> and made them prepared statement so i just had to fill them in :D
13:26:40  <planetmaker> it's a more or less virgin debian7 for now
13:27:38  <Alberth> planetmaker: works
13:28:02  <planetmaker> hm... seems still to miss a nameserver config
13:32:50  <planetmaker> ok, works now, Alberth . I just issued an apt-get install python3. And will leave the rest there to you?
13:34:03  <Alberth> installing eints should be feasible (although as 'root' is probably a bad idea), but after that I don't know
13:34:28  <^Spike^> it's your container... if you think you need a separate user... :)
13:34:30  <^Spike^> create it :)
13:34:33  <planetmaker> yeah, probably make a separate user
13:35:01  <Alberth> installing isn't much more than copying the hg tip, and configure it a bit
13:35:07  <planetmaker> :-)
13:35:30  <planetmaker> maybe even use a checkout... easy update ;-)
13:35:55  <planetmaker> (and you could push in-places fixes from there then easily, too)
13:37:34  <planetmaker> wouldn't it need some webserver running to have users interface it (or is it included)?
13:37:39  <planetmaker> hm... is included, I guess
13:37:58  <Alberth> it does come with the bottle server
13:38:58  <planetmaker> ok... we did have a list of things we need... where was it?
13:39:21  <planetmaker> as I wonder whether it can already work, if it can interface the postgresql server
13:40:12  <planetmaker> repos are publicly readable, so... they can at least be polled
13:40:28  <^Spike^> Does anyone here use openid to login on devzone?
13:48:04  <andythenorth> not me
13:50:11  <planetmaker> some RM users might use it
13:50:18  <planetmaker> we have a few of those after all
13:59:45  <^Spike^> well converting a db breaks somewhere... so trying to find a proper converter
14:02:25  <andythenorth> hmmm
14:02:30  <andythenorth> need a new tile for my bulk terminal
14:02:36  <andythenorth> that doesn't try to build on coast :P
14:06:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3797:91ab6f61678c: Codechange: improved mockup graphics for... XandythenorthX @
14:12:25  <Brot6> firs: update from r3796 to r3797 done (26 warnings) -
14:14:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3798:5aebe60e17b3: Change: try a warehouse at the Trading P... XandythenorthX @
14:19:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r3797 to r3798 done (26 warnings) -
14:20:28  <frosch123> andythenorth: openttd website will for sure stick with django
14:20:35  <andythenorth> k
14:20:43  <andythenorth> I have no opinion for or against
14:20:44  <frosch123> so as long as bananas is on openttd, it will also stick to django :p
14:20:53  <andythenorth> I have zero django experience
14:21:41  <frosch123> anyway, django is not yet ported (completely) to python 3, so the db does not matter
14:21:58  <frosch123> and i doubt anyone has time to migrate to psql or python3 anyway :p
14:22:13  <frosch123> nor is there any need
14:22:24  <frosch123> (shortterm)
14:23:48  <planetmaker> assuming andy rewrites bananas... couldn't he use the framework as needed?
14:24:33  <frosch123> no idea, but i guess you will lose all integration with, like layout, central login, mirroring, binaries, ...
14:25:21  <planetmaker> ah, that
14:25:25  <planetmaker> yes, true
14:25:51  <frosch123> btw, eints won't be able to replace wt3 either
14:25:59  <planetmaker> why?
14:26:02  <frosch123> python3 :p
14:26:10  <planetmaker> :-)
14:28:11  <Alberth> time works in my advantage  :D
14:28:23  <planetmaker> it's anyway better to do one step after the other :-)
14:29:03  <Alberth> yeah, that's why I limited it to newgrf projects only currenty
14:29:37  <Alberth> I am sure issues will arise once you move it into production
14:29:44  <planetmaker> :-)
14:29:55  <planetmaker> you don't write 100% correct software?!
14:30:08  <planetmaker> anticipating every need?
14:30:14  <frosch123> he also wants work tomorroe :p
14:30:16  <Rubidium> move it into production? From where?
14:30:59  <Rubidium> there is no testing; you go straight into production ;)
14:31:19  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't rewrite banananaas :)
14:31:23  <andythenorth> I write front end code
14:31:41  <Rubidium> isn't that the major part of bananas?
14:31:43  <andythenorth> from what truebrain told me, the banananas rewrite needed is lots of complicated view code
14:32:03  <andythenorth> misquoting him "it is a mess and all needs rewriting internally"
14:34:37  <andythenorth> maybe overstated? :)
14:35:00  <planetmaker> yes. no. maybe :D
14:42:32  <planetmaker> Alberth, is an apache supposed to be running on the translator VM?
14:43:09  <Alberth> I don't know
14:44:02  <frosch123> it needs some webserver, but neither necessarily apache, nor necessarily on the same vm
14:44:14  <Alberth> do you want to add it in front of the bottle server?
14:44:26  <Alberth> is that useful?
14:44:48  <frosch123> technically the bottle thingie is only meant for debugging
14:44:58  <frosch123> the offical way would be to use an wsgi capable webserver
14:45:13  <frosch123> but with that stuff like urls are harder
14:45:30  <Alberth> fine by me, as long as it is single threading
14:46:01  <frosch123> on my vm i used the bottle thingie
14:46:01  <planetmaker> Alberth, no. Just wondering. It seems to run on that vm :-)
14:46:09  <frosch123> else i would have had to change eints all over the place
14:46:16  <frosch123> because it uses top-level url everywhere
14:46:23  <Alberth> I have zero experience in setting up web servers
14:46:26  <frosch123> and i wanted it in /eints and /eints/static
14:47:06  <Alberth> here it has its own domain, afaik
14:48:59  <andythenorth> bottle has an @route decorator or something doesn't it? o_O
14:49:27  <frosch123> no idea, this whole project is driven by people who barely know half the stuff :p
14:49:34  <andythenorth> fun :)
14:49:35  <^Spike^> who/what/where
14:49:37  <^Spike^> which project? :)
14:49:49  <andythenorth> all my python framework experience is Zope and Pyramid :)
14:50:04  <frosch123> all my experience is in that single vm :p
14:50:08  <frosch123> at least it runs :p
14:50:33  <planetmaker> eints, ^Spike^
14:50:45  <^Spike^> oh... :)
14:50:56  <^Spike^> not that it would be anymore not related to our work planetmaker ;)
14:52:06  <planetmaker> :D
14:53:20  <^Spike^> but.......... the clone does what it's supposed to do :D
14:53:33  <^Spike^> somehow... me is happy it works :D
14:54:05  <frosch123> yup :)
14:54:20  <^Spike^> planetmaker you didn't "leak" the news right yet?
14:54:31  <planetmaker> which news? :D
14:54:46  <frosch123> "working" is the best you can get, if noone knows it entirely :p
14:54:49  <^Spike^> the thing... with that thing.... doing that other thing....... all things.... :)
14:54:51  <planetmaker> I guess people in this channel might know what we try now
14:54:58  <planetmaker> but... :-P
14:55:29  <planetmaker> ... I've no clue what you talk about ;-)
14:55:41  <^Spike^> Database adapter PostgreSQL
14:55:43  <^Spike^> that?
14:56:42  <planetmaker> not exactly like that. But given that is the prerequisite for eints and that we blamed Alberth already. People who can go figure will know it :-D
14:56:59  <^Spike^> so big bang switch planetmaker? ;)
14:57:03  <^Spike^> not test stuff at all? :D
14:57:07  <planetmaker> :D
14:57:13  <frosch123> just document it properly :p
14:57:14  <andythenorth> redmine: mysql -> psql?
14:57:18  * andythenorth bets
14:57:20  <^Spike^> he you wanted postgresql.. you can get it :D
14:57:32  <^Spike^>
14:57:33  <Webster> Title: philipsoutham/py-mysql2pgsql ยท GitHub (at
14:57:39  <^Spike^> all the documentation you need for that switch :D
14:57:42  <planetmaker> big bag. Today we still have a few hours to tidy up if anything goes wrong
14:57:58  <^Spike^> i need to check other stuff aswell... and sync repos etc :D
14:58:02  <^Spike^> so no big bang yet pm :D
14:58:08  <planetmaker> :-)
14:58:10  <frosch123> ^Spike^: no, i mean document the new devzone :p though i guess that is more critical for pm's part :p
14:58:35  <^Spike^> oh.. :)
14:58:41  <^Spike^> pm got the documentation i used for that :D
14:58:51  <^Spike^> you really think i figured it all out by myself? :D
14:59:20  <frosch123> no, i already said that is is all run by people who barely know the half :p
14:59:23  <Alberth> saved a copy of the IRC logs, right?  :)
14:59:35  <^Spike^> on cimarosa..... :D
14:59:46  <^Spike^> there is no single point of failu....
14:59:47  <^Spike^> oh wait...
14:59:48  <^Spike^> :)
15:00:27  <planetmaker> sounds like last words
15:00:36  <^Spike^> then.... cimarosa crashed... ;)
15:00:47  <^Spike^> who took care of our backups again? :D
15:01:18  <planetmaker> they should reside externally on dih's server (and his on ours)
15:01:23  <frosch123> put the important files into a secret hg repo
15:01:41  <frosch123> ah, you are trading secrets with dih :p
15:01:47  <frosch123> don't say that in public :p
15:02:27  <planetmaker> :D
15:02:49  <^Spike^> i trust dih has his server running in an underground bunker with the only entry/exit being hidden behind his front-door...
15:02:50  <^Spike^> ehm...
15:02:51  <^Spike^> wait...
15:05:39  <V453000> :D
15:08:31  <^Spike^> now to see what else uses mysql and see if a switch is a good move..
15:09:01  <planetmaker> I wonder about wiki...
15:09:09  <^Spike^> wiki wiki... or rm wiki
15:09:18  <planetmaker> wiki wiki
15:09:24  <planetmaker> RM wiki surely does. somehow
15:09:29  <^Spike^> that needs a rebuild anyway
15:09:35  <^Spike^> but i was just talking RM/dev related stuff
15:09:38  <planetmaker> but RM wiki is covered :-)
15:09:51  <Alberth> cloaked :)
15:12:57  <planetmaker> :-)
15:29:46  <andythenorth> hmm
15:29:58  <andythenorth> we could put eints into 'test' production just with one user :P
15:29:59  <andythenorth> shared
15:30:15  <planetmaker> so... port 80 for web access is also now available, Alberth for
15:30:39  <Alberth> \o/
15:30:40  <planetmaker> thanks to ^Spike^ :D
15:33:11  <andythenorth> if we had eints running somewhere, for just a couple of projects, we could learn about the interesting stuff it needs to do
15:33:16  <andythenorth> i.e. import / export lang files
15:33:41  <andythenorth> just put an apache password in front of it :P
15:34:57  <planetmaker> let me search for you key... can give you root there, too
15:35:38  <planetmaker> additional ports than the ssh and 80 for web need configuration in our FW. But feasible, if needed
15:39:33  <planetmaker> done. I don't assume that Alberth will mind :D
15:40:36  <planetmaker> make it work. Tell me if you need anything and what
15:40:55  <planetmaker> I'm sure you need some kind of reading access to the database at least
15:41:15  <planetmaker> I wonder whether ^Spike^ can tell us how to grant that (and actually faciliate that)
15:41:27  <planetmaker> the psql one
15:41:58  <Alberth> your assumption is correct :)
15:46:56  <^Spike^> ehm....
15:47:02  <^Spike^> i can give you access to the conversion DB
15:47:10  <^Spike^> which is currently the clone test DB
15:48:27  <planetmaker> yes. But it will eventually be the production one?
15:48:42  <^Spike^> use this for testing...
15:48:55  <^Spike^> see if eints works as you want.. before i go and convert the real deal :)
15:48:59  <planetmaker> ok. For testing it's sufficient, I gues
15:55:05  <Alberth> unfortunately, now is a bad time for me
15:55:46  <planetmaker> ok, no rush.
15:56:16  <^Spike^> ... :)
16:02:18  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, container 203 uses the psql DB?
16:11:37  <^Spike^> yep
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16:42:20  * planetmaker ponders what permissions a translator role would need. Any hints, Alberth ?
16:43:49  <planetmaker> Well. I created a role called "Translator" and a user "eints"
16:57:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: the permissions only affect redmine stuff
16:57:17  <frosch123> so it should likely be the same as "reporter"
16:57:34  <frosch123> in the test environment we actually had one role per language
16:57:59  <frosch123> like "Translator en_US", "Translator de_DE", "Translator pt_BR", ...
17:19:43  <Brot6> nml: update from r2093 to r2094 done -
17:20:41  <planetmaker> ah... I should have looked there :-)
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17:23:22  <frosch123> actually, if you are not going to use the default permissions for new roles, it's likely easier to add the roles via a sql script :p
17:24:49  <frosch123> hmm, maybe that would make sense anyway
17:25:00  <planetmaker> hm :-)
17:25:15  <frosch123> something like a master role "Translator", and then an sql script to copy the permissions of that one to all list of languages
17:25:21  <frosch123> possibly creating roles if missing
17:25:41  <frosch123> what do you think? i wanted to play a bit with sql anyway :p
17:26:18  <planetmaker> the permissions would be identical. It would only differ possibly in the commit hooks whether commits by them are rejected or not
17:26:35  <planetmaker> other than that I don't see how the roles would differ from the RM side
17:26:51  <frosch123> afaik they woudn't get any commit rights
17:26:58  <frosch123> so yeah, all translator permissions would be the same
17:27:35  <planetmaker> hm... right. got it... eints reads the roles which users are assigned
17:27:46  <planetmaker> and allows it based on that
17:28:11  <Brot6> firs: update from r3796 to r3798 done (26 warnings) -
17:30:54  <frosch123> planetmaker: so, should i try writing a script? or do you want to handle it differently?
17:40:13  <planetmaker> the script would create all required translator roles?
17:40:43  <^Spike^> you can do on this install whatever you want'/need :)
17:41:40  <planetmaker> well, let's try then how it looks :-)
17:46:39  <frosch123> i think one would create one role "translator" and then the script gets a list of languages, and creates/syncs copies for each translation
17:47:30  <planetmaker> the only thing I'm somewhat concerned about is the "spam" of roles. But I guess that's exactly what we want on the other hand :-)
17:47:32  <Alberth> is that worth the trouble?
17:47:51  <Alberth> ie you clone a translator role when needed
17:48:01  <frosch123> well, for first you would have a long detailed contributor list
17:48:05  <frosch123> -t
17:48:12  <planetmaker> :-)
17:48:28  <frosch123> but you won't cut on the number of translators in any case
17:48:32  <Alberth> good point, 30 languages :)
17:48:39  <frosch123> you just save some rows by putting them into the same category
17:49:03  <Alberth> you can also use the same role for different languages if you like
17:49:05  <frosch123> actually, let's just try how it looks
17:49:33  <frosch123> there is lots of space in the members column anyway
17:49:39  <frosch123> so, i think it does not hurt
17:55:25  <Alberth> :)
18:17:43  <Alberth> good night
18:17:55  <planetmaker> g'night Alberth
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18:59:59  <frosch123> <- :p
19:00:28  <planetmaker> loool
19:00:50  <frosch123>
19:01:15  <frosch123> those are all 'finished' language from ottd
19:01:32  <frosch123> the screenshot shows about 3/4
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19:06:30  <planetmaker> hm, each project manager adds the individual translators to that role? Or is it done globally?
19:07:22  <frosch123> currently each project manager add those translators she wants
19:07:32  <frosch123> to those translations she wants
19:08:09  <planetmaker> thought so. I wonder... whether that can and whether it's desirable to globalize...
19:08:22  <frosch123> do you also want a script to copy all translator assignments from an example project to a specific project?
19:08:56  <frosch123> but if you want to keep it the same for all projects, you should rather do that via eints
19:09:05  <planetmaker> :-) That might be a nice button "Enable default translators" or so
19:09:12  <frosch123> and just add a single "Translations" meta project
19:09:34  <frosch123> then the roles won't be displayed for every project, but only in the Translations project
19:09:48  <frosch123> might make more sense actually
19:09:49  <planetmaker> I'm unsure as of what's the better approach
19:10:19  <planetmaker> but personally I'd not care to configure translators for each project. But would want them to translate all. Or whatever is the translator's choice
19:10:19  <frosch123> well, i think for now we should just try with one project and 3 translators :p
19:10:24  <planetmaker> :-)
19:10:59  <andythenorth> throw something at wall, see what sticks
19:11:10  <planetmaker> 20% sticks
19:11:18  <planetmaker> rest fractures ;-)
19:11:33  <andythenorth> 20% takes 80% of the time :)
19:11:54  <planetmaker> :-)
19:12:00  <andythenorth> always try to do user / permissions crap *after* testing a prototype :)
19:12:04  <andythenorth> is my experience
19:12:21  <andythenorth> except when you're building an authentication module :P
19:12:32  <planetmaker> well. yes. But this somewhat relates to ^ ;-)
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19:52:13  <^Spike^> frosch123, andythenorth you're not busy with eints?
19:52:43  <andythenorth> not me :)
19:52:48  * andythenorth is busy with curry
19:53:04  <^Spike^> ....
19:53:10  <^Spike^> gives me time to do something on postgres
19:54:18  <frosch123> i am not on the official devzone anyway
19:54:28  <^Spike^> i meant eints as in... the one running postgres :D
19:54:41  <^Spike^> official devzone isn't even aware it's gonna get killed for postgres ;)
19:55:07  <frosch123> i don't know your setup. i was only in my local private test vm
19:55:52  <frosch123> i know that my public key is in various places of openttdcoop, but that does not mean that i know where to login for what :p
19:55:54  <planetmaker> hm. you want access to the eints VM and toy there, frosch123 ?
19:56:03  <frosch123> clear case of more permissions than knowledge :p
19:56:28  <frosch123> planetmaker: if you give me an introduction what you are actually doing :p
19:56:57  <frosch123> anyway, i tested the sql script here
19:56:57  <^Spike^> service vz stop
19:57:00  <planetmaker> the question (somewhat veiled) is: do you want to care / help setup / administrate the VM which eints runs on
19:57:00  <^Spike^> solving all our issues
19:57:01  <^Spike^> :D
19:57:08  <frosch123> it just needs executing, *if* you want to
19:57:30  <frosch123> sure, if i can help, then i will help :)
19:57:51  <frosch123> just don't overestimate my skills wrt. administration :)
19:58:05  <planetmaker> that VM does not include RM nor database though... dunno if the script can be run remote
19:58:19  <^Spike^> that's where you have a fallback.... named openttdcoop... which happend to have a sysadmin... (me in this case ;))
19:58:21  <frosch123> well, but it has access to the database?
19:58:26  <frosch123> rw access that is
19:58:32  <^Spike^> if i start it yes :D
19:58:37  <planetmaker> :D
19:58:41  <frosch123> well, i need an sql console
19:59:10  <frosch123> and maybe an redmine admin login to verify the result in the gui
19:59:35  <frosch123> if redmine is accessible from here via http in the frist place :p
19:59:45  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, is there a way to access the test-RM without cimarosa-root?
20:00:07  <planetmaker> I think the firewall blocks it still :D
20:00:23  <^Spike^> that can be fixed... you know that.... :)
20:00:36  <^Spike^> i might need to recreate the devzone role stuff... but i'll make it work :D
20:00:36  <planetmaker> yes... can you please please? :-)
20:00:38  <frosch123> do you have some secret admin channel / should we start one?
20:00:50  <^Spike^> depends... define secret... :D
20:00:52  <frosch123> or do you do stuff via 2-person queries?
20:01:05  <^Spike^> pm and i communicate via the ottdc other universe mostly... :)
20:03:55  <planetmaker> right, frosch123: ssh -p13522 is access to the translator VM
20:05:16  <planetmaker> check your private message, frosch123 for database access
20:05:25  <planetmaker> from within the VM
20:05:35  <frosch123> it auto-popups and makes the whole screen red :p
20:05:36  <^Spike^> it might not work right now...
20:05:37  <^Spike^> :D
20:05:47  <^Spike^> i mean the DB then :D
20:05:47  <planetmaker> :-)
20:07:54  <frosch123> there is no psql command :s
20:08:08  <^Spike^> apt-get install postgresql-client?
20:08:12  <^Spike^> or something like that
20:09:13  <frosch123> ok, do you document what you do somewhere?
20:09:34  * ^Spike^ points to Webster
20:09:40  <^Spike^> j/k
20:09:50  <^Spike^> at this time for us it's mostly a conversion.... which is a step...
20:09:50  <Rubidium> /dev/gehirn ?
20:10:09  <^Spike^> /dev/null preferably... safest place to store all your documents..
20:10:13  <^Spike^> nobody will even find them
20:11:09  <frosch123> so, is the @translator vm completely empty? nothing installed yet?
20:11:21  <^Spike^> i don't know who logged in yet :D
20:11:56  <frosch123> python3 is already installed
20:12:05  * ^Spike^ points to planetmaker
20:12:36  <planetmaker> frosch123, that's probably right. I only installed python3
20:12:41  <planetmaker> on the debian7 template
20:12:51  <planetmaker> I did not yet touch anything else
20:13:33  <planetmaker> which I installed as test that installation works :D
20:13:52  <^Spike^> time to pull of the conversion trick again...
20:14:54  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, I created a rule dev-new.o.o.conf in 118
20:15:08  <planetmaker> which should do the trick for the new RM on 203
20:15:18  <planetmaker> (or so I hope)
20:15:26  <^Spike^> i would call it dev-clone cause i use dev-new for... well guess what ;)
20:16:03  <frosch123> ok, the database connection works, it's completely empty though
20:16:09  <^Spike^> frosch123
20:16:11  <^Spike^> it's being filled
20:16:15  <^Spike^> wait a few minutes :D
20:16:17  <^Spike^> relax... :D
20:16:17  <frosch123> ok :)
20:16:27  <^Spike^> py-mysql2pgsql is doing it's thing
20:16:32  <^Spike^> as i said.. i needed to redo roles :D
20:16:46  <^Spike^> slowly stuff is being inserted :D
20:16:49  <planetmaker> right, ^Spike^ . changed
20:17:05  <planetmaker> why do you need to re-do roles?
20:17:07  <^Spike^> done
20:17:20  <^Spike^> cause upgrading 8.4 to 9.2 was too much work
20:17:25  <^Spike^> and redoing roles was 4 commands :D
20:17:33  <planetmaker> oh, no upgrade?
20:17:36  <frosch123> so, where shall i checkout eints?
20:17:45  <frosch123> (in the filesystem)
20:17:45  <^Spike^> frosch123 check db again ;)
20:17:51  <planetmaker> frosch123, as you want or think is a good choice :-)
20:17:54  <^Spike^> planetmaker upgrade to 9.2 was a bit too much work
20:18:03  <^Spike^> and as it wasn't production yet.. i just started over :D
20:18:05  <planetmaker> I'd probably create a new user and use that... possibly
20:18:21  <frosch123> so /home/eints ?
20:18:22  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, work for today? Or... anyway?
20:18:28  <planetmaker> yeah, why not, frosch123
20:18:28  <^Spike^> it works already
20:19:02  <^Spike^> it took me 20 mins tops to get it all working... aka trying upgrade... failing.. recreating... and importing :D
20:19:29  <^Spike^> and now pgsql is good till 2017 :D
20:19:36  <frosch123> ok, roles are available
20:19:47  <^Spike^> it might be....
20:19:53  <^Spike^> that your translator role got lost though planetmaker :D
20:20:06  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, that would not matter much
20:20:06  <frosch123> yup
20:20:09  <frosch123> no translator role
20:22:09  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, nginx needs just a restart after adding the (new) config?
20:22:20  <^Spike^> yep... and adding to hosts file... i did that for you :)
20:22:29  <planetmaker> also on 118?
20:22:56  <^Spike^> just on 118
20:23:03  <^Spike^> nginx restart that is
20:23:10  <^Spike^> other universe for other instructions :D
20:24:48  <planetmaker>
20:25:47  <planetmaker> hm. I don't stay logged-in there
20:26:33  <planetmaker> hm... https not forwarded properly?
20:26:38  <planetmaker> probably
20:26:57  <^Spike^> ehm...
20:27:09  <^Spike^> keep in mind that the nginx running on this server is stripped
20:27:14  <^Spike^> and ONLY forward to devzone clone
20:27:26  <^Spike^> so no push will come up there... not matter what you do :D
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20:27:49  <planetmaker> I mean login. To redmine on dev-clone.o.o
20:27:54  <^Spike^> hmmm
20:28:09  <planetmaker> otherwise I can't make frosch admin there to test the stuff
20:28:11  <^Spike^> locally it also doesn't forward me.. to https.. (ssh tunnel)
20:28:27  <^Spike^> trying to figure out what happens
20:28:35  <^Spike^> hmmmm
20:28:39  <planetmaker> check the nginx thing I wrote :D
20:28:49  <^Spike^> i think i got a feeling already
20:28:56  <^Spike^> where you are going :D
20:29:22  <^Spike^> you forgot one ;)
20:29:42  <planetmaker> he. yeah
20:29:58  <^Spike^> hey it works! :D
20:30:31  <^Spike^> keep in mind... 1... as you notice the color differs WITH A REASON... :D
20:30:42  <planetmaker> ok, first thing after login is crap... but ^ that's what I saw, too, yes
20:31:00  <^Spike^> there title updated aswell :)
20:31:59  <planetmaker> frosch123, try to login to the test RM and see whether you now got admin rights. And to change roles
20:33:43  <frosch123> ok, adding translator role
20:34:20  <^Spike^> as the title of that devzone says: Testing.. :)
20:34:28  <^Spike^> not that i will purge the DB
20:34:42  <^Spike^> the moment we switch over... i will just announce it etc...
20:35:25  <planetmaker> can you simply merge the DBs upon switch? Or how does it work, ^Spike^ ?
20:35:36  <planetmaker> I mean... update psql with changes? Or...?
20:35:42  <^Spike^> well.. when we switch... i use that converter on the real DB
20:35:57  <^Spike^> and if the changes eints does aren't too major/are documented.. it should be easy to do
20:37:28  <frosch123> is it somehow possible to checkout via from translator?
20:37:35  <frosch123> or should i just scp a checkout :p
20:38:15  <planetmaker> yes, you can. if you install hg
20:38:25  <^Spike^> frosch123 actually....
20:38:32  <^Spike^> we want you to do it in binary....
20:38:32  <^Spike^> :D
20:39:00  <frosch123> planetmaker: i installed hg, but i get 404
20:39:06  <^Spike^> ...
20:39:09  <^Spike^> what are you doing?
20:39:16  <frosch123> cd /home/eints
20:39:21  <^Spike^> i think i have an idea what goes wrong
20:39:22  <frosch123> hg clone
20:39:37  <planetmaker> ah, yes
20:39:38  <^Spike^> can you try :)
20:39:42  <planetmaker> hg clone ^
20:39:56  <^Spike^> has to do with internal routing etc
20:40:40  <^Spike^> or rather dns lookups
20:41:04  <frosch123> is there some ip i could try instead?
20:41:15  <^Spike^> hgweb also fails?
20:41:17  <planetmaker> doesn't hgweb.o.o work?
20:41:51  <^Spike^> frosch123 issue is... it's all the same IP and it relies on the virtual host
20:42:04  <frosch123> hgweb works
20:42:16  <^Spike^> root@translator:~# hg clone
20:42:16  <^Spike^> destination directory: eints
20:42:16  <frosch123> did not get that you wanted me that to try
20:42:17  <^Spike^> requesting all changes
20:42:19  <^Spike^> worked for me
20:42:50  <^Spike^> as you might notice i'm sort of right on top of stuff right now ;D
20:42:52  <frosch123> did we just run it in parallel? :p
20:42:57  <planetmaker> :D
20:43:27  <planetmaker> brb... shower :-)
20:46:50  <^Spike^> frosch123 it all works? :)
20:47:04  <frosch123> up to now it does :p
20:47:09  <^Spike^> good... :)
20:47:19  <frosch123> redmine roles site has now 3 pages :p
20:47:46  <^Spike^> so....
20:47:49  <^Spike^> that is automated? :D
20:48:18  <Brot6> fish: update from r1190 to r1191 done (3 warnings) -
21:06:57  <planetmaker> hm, I seem to have today a bad connection... more than once today my ssh connections to and port forwards from cimarosa died :S
21:07:04  <^Spike^> ehm...
21:07:30  <^Spike^> planetmaker:
21:07:31  <Webster> Title: Keep Your Linux SSH Session From Disconnecting (at
21:07:33  <^Spike^> might help
21:07:37  <^Spike^> if you haven't set those values yet
21:08:29  <^Spike^> i would do the global and the current user...
21:08:35  <^Spike^> had to do that @ work aswell...
21:08:44  <^Spike^> and also on my windows client i set a keepalive
21:08:49  <^Spike^> that might help
21:09:43  <planetmaker> hm. let's see
21:09:58  <planetmaker> thx
21:23:52  <frosch123> anyone in timezone EDT? :p
21:24:05  <^Spike^> you can change it :)
21:24:13  <^Spike^>
21:24:14  <Webster> Title: Time for Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) now (at
21:24:16  <^Spike^> hf! :)
21:24:46  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: manindu (Diffsize: 10), ogfx-industries, dutchtrains, progressivetrains (25 warnings), canrail, xussrset (4 warnings), ogfx-trains (4 warnings), bandit (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 8216), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 5284), nutracks (2 warnings), swedishrails, zbuild, finnishtrainset, debugveh (Diffsize: 1000), uselesstracks (Diffsize: 760),
21:24:46  <Brot6> german-townnames (Diffsize: 49), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 18), make-nml, opengfx, britrains (10 warnings) (Diffsize: 133546), dutchtracks (Diffsize: 327), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 72), dutchroadfurniture (Diffsize: 44228), frenchtowns, airportsplus, swisstowns (Diffsize: 51), ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 36), newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 21), ogfx-landscape, friss (Diffsize: 4685), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 19), universalrails
21:24:50  <^Spike^> frosch123: tzselect? :)
21:30:41  <planetmaker> EDT! omg
21:30:54  <^Spike^> is a great site for that stuff btw :D
21:33:41  <frosch123> well, i just have no clue about python :p
21:34:28  <frosch123> ^Spike^: are you in EDT?
21:34:44  <^Spike^> nop
21:34:45  <planetmaker> :D
21:34:47  <^Spike^> CET
21:34:50  <^Spike^> it's the template default
21:34:58  <^Spike^> you can change it with tzselect
21:35:07  <frosch123> why would anyone configure EDT as default? :s
21:35:14  <frosch123> i would get UTC
21:35:21  <^Spike^> ppl in the US who made the template and were too lazy?
21:35:26  <^Spike^> i would configure mine with CET
21:35:49  <planetmaker> I actually would make the template with UTC :D
21:37:48  <planetmaker> hm, the list of RM themes is finite. And not as long as I thought
21:37:56  <^Spike^> :)
21:38:12  <planetmaker>
21:38:13  <Webster> Title: Index - Redmine - Aurora Theme - Jorge Barata - Projects Manager (at
21:38:20  <planetmaker>
21:38:21  <Webster> Title: Overview - Redmine Bootstrap - Mallaby (at
21:38:33  <planetmaker>
21:38:34  <Webster> Title: Pixel Cookers Redmine Theme (at
21:38:40  <planetmaker>
21:38:41  <Webster> Title: ThemeWatersky - Redmine (at
21:38:47  <planetmaker> those 4
21:40:10  <planetmaker> looks longer than it is
21:40:11  <Webster> Title: Theme List - Redmine (at
21:40:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I like our current theme :)
21:41:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes... but... not exactly supported anymore and incompatible with updated RM
21:41:15  <andythenorth> :(
21:41:34  <andythenorth> get watersky then
21:41:39  <andythenorth> the others are kind of....bad
21:41:57  <frosch123> so, how the heck does python import modules?
21:42:06  <frosch123> sometimes it uses the working directory, sometimes not
21:42:16  <planetmaker> what fails, frosch123 ?
21:42:27  <planetmaker> can't you install the modules via apt-get?
21:42:36  <planetmaker> and then it magically works?
21:42:38  <frosch123> tail /var/log/apache2/error.log
21:42:53  <frosch123> [Sun Aug 18 17:32:32 2013] [error] [client]   File "/home/eints/eints/app.wsgi", line 4, in <module>
21:42:55  <frosch123> [Sun Aug 18 17:32:32 2013] [error] [client]     from webtranslate import *
21:42:56  <frosch123> [Sun Aug 18 17:32:32 2013] [error] [client] ImportError: No module named webtranslate
21:43:11  <planetmaker> hm
21:43:33  <planetmaker> what is now different than on the VM you created?
21:43:55  <frosch123> i am using mod_wsgi
21:44:02  <frosch123> instead of the debug server
21:44:30  <frosch123> and apache loads it, just python fails to find the module in the current directory
21:44:40  <frosch123> even though i just copied the code from the tutorial :p
21:45:12  <planetmaker> can that be apache settings?
21:45:19  <planetmaker> disallowing code from... other places?
21:45:28  <frosch123> no, it's just python
21:45:50  <frosch123> i need to somewhere define the search path
21:46:07  <frosch123> oh, actually there is an apache setting to add paths :)
21:48:03  <planetmaker> getting late here... so I'll wish everyone a good night now :-)
21:48:45  <planetmaker> bamboo is for tomorrow it seems
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22:05:19  <frosch123> <- it starts, but i cannot login :)
22:06:11  <V453000> because rainbow
22:06:38  <planetmaker> nah. because https is not passed through firewall
22:06:54  <V453000> rainbow.
22:07:11  <frosch123> planetmaker: it does not work via http either
22:07:39  <frosch123> either the authentication fails
22:07:49  <frosch123> or it is not passed on correctly
22:14:50  <planetmaker> maybe now? Otherwise it's stuff for tomorrow
22:15:52  <frosch123> no, i need to add some debug output to eints tomorrow .)
22:16:30  <planetmaker> then... good night once more :D
22:17:01  <V453000> XD rainow
22:17:02  <V453000> rainbow
22:17:03  <V453000> gn
22:17:38  <frosch123> V453000: make a rainbow css for eints, and scare all translator away :)
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