Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th January 2014:
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08:23:46  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #635-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 38 sec:
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13:24:56  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #640-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 33 sec:
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15:32:28  <Alberth> planetmaker:
15:46:53  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #643-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 38 sec:
15:53:13  <planetmaker> Alberth, I believe that the DYxxxx can be simplified to actually 3 values
15:53:31  <planetmaker> as it basically depends on the height of the ground tiles in question
15:54:00  <planetmaker> hm... or not?
15:54:22  <Alberth> looks like it
15:55:10  <planetmaker> Alberth, wanna make the templates with zoom factor right away?
15:55:37  <planetmaker> though I'm not sure whether zeph wants to provide zoom sprites
15:55:46  <Alberth> we don't seem to have them
15:56:20  <planetmaker> I would recommend to define one template and re-use that all the time, though
15:56:37  <Alberth> depends a bit on the status of all the 32bpp images
15:57:11  <planetmaker>
15:58:03  <planetmaker> using the definition of offsets once saves many code lines
15:58:11  <Alberth> ok, can use that
15:59:15  <planetmaker> <-- similar to that then
15:59:57  <Alberth> bah, it doesn't look impressive at all!  :D
16:00:19  <Alberth> but yeah, looks good :)
16:01:01  <planetmaker> sorry :)
16:01:15  <planetmaker> I thought you knew those templates
16:02:31  <planetmaker> with the defines you use: it might also make sense to define 64 as SPRITE_WIDTH and maybe 31 as SPRITE_HEIGHT. Not sure
16:02:41  <planetmaker> might show up in many templates, too
16:03:13  <planetmaker> using defines for DX and DY might not be needed when using only one t emplate, though
16:04:08  <Alberth> I agree :)
16:04:08  <planetmaker> and why does the "do not stop here" sign look suspiciously similar to the "thou shall not pass here" sign?
16:04:17  <planetmaker> ^ (total off-topic remark)
16:05:28  <Alberth> as for knowing templates, I am working from the nml tutorials :p
16:09:22  <planetmaker> I thought you'd just take opengfx+landscape and go from there :D
16:09:50  <planetmaker> hm, but... the nml tutorial had templates, too. At least for the tram example when I looked last week
16:09:56  <planetmaker> Probably not consistent enough
16:10:36  <planetmaker> some things seem obvious but possibly aren't
16:18:30  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #231-nightlies: SUCCESS in 44 sec:
16:22:36  <Alberth> patch updated
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16:25:39  <planetmaker> looks good
16:26:59  <Alberth> you have a pm from zeph as well
16:27:08  <Alberth> he doesn't know about your repos?
16:28:33  <Alberth> hmm, cannot push :(
16:30:09  <planetmaker> why not?
16:30:14  <Alberth> pushed
16:30:26  <Alberth> sub-repo used http for some reason
16:30:36  <planetmaker> I'm just writing to him (and you) in reply to his message
16:31:06  <Alberth> root repo was ssh, so I checked out with ssh
16:32:15  <planetmaker> I just pushed a small update, adding a completely empty trains repo
16:32:27  <planetmaker> message sent
16:35:08  <planetmaker> sub repos are sometimes a bit of a bitch :S
16:38:16  <Alberth> sent a copy of my answer to zephyris as well
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16:48:01  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Industries build #74-push: SUCCESS in 35 sec:
16:48:53  <DevZone> Project Dutch Trainset build #62-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 19 sec:
16:53:21  <DevZone> Project FIRS Industry Replacement Set build #84-push: SUCCESS in 5 min 20 sec:
16:53:39  <planetmaker> was it so frustrating, Alberth ? :S
16:53:40  <DevZone> Project OpenMSX build #17-push: SUCCESS in 19 sec:
16:54:25  <DevZone> Project OpenSFX build #13-push: SUCCESS in 44 sec:
17:18:47  <DevZone> Project Planet of the apes: Ghat landscape set build #9-push: SUCCESS in 29 min:
17:22:02  <DevZone> Project Japanese Buildings build #92-nightlies: SUCCESS in 17 sec:
17:27:58  <Alberth> nah, I now understand the trick, and want to try something else :)
17:28:42  <planetmaker> fair enough :)
17:29:09  <planetmaker> did you commit your patch?
17:29:20  <Alberth> yep
17:29:40  <Alberth> not sure whether updates are added into the main repo too
17:30:08  <Alberth> wasn't there a need to commit the main repo as well??
17:30:16  <planetmaker> ah, not automatically.
17:30:31  <planetmaker> yes, the main repo needs an update to reflect the state change in the sub-repo
17:30:55  <Alberth> hmm, zephyris might not have my changes thus
17:31:30  <planetmaker> it is updated, I think, if you commit on main repo level by hg ci --sub
17:31:34  <planetmaker> or so... let's look
17:31:54  <planetmaker> yeah. hg ci --subrepos
17:32:03  <planetmaker> on main level. Will commit everything in all sub repos
17:32:33  <planetmaker> but it's ok to commit on sub repo level, if you don't need the changes from any other
17:32:38  <Alberth> I didn't do that
17:33:14  <Alberth> but it does need the latest graphics
17:34:03  <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure - Rails build #206-nightlies: SUCCESS in 8 min 16 sec:
17:34:34  <Alberth> oh, just update sub repos, and commit, apparently
17:34:41  <Alberth> shall I do that?
17:34:41  <planetmaker> yes
17:36:03  <Alberth> done
17:37:16  <planetmaker> the idea behind this behaviour of hg is, that e.g. Zeph can work on the graphics (library) and we can develop the code against a certain version thereof. And with an update of the graphics (library) only do needed code changes
17:42:34  <Alberth> sort of having releases :)
17:44:01  <planetmaker> kinda, yeah.
17:46:32  <planetmaker> thanks also for the hint for zeph
17:47:38  <Alberth> yw :)
17:48:28  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #644-nightlies: SUCCESS in 1 min 42 sec:
18:37:06  <Alberth> where to add industries?
18:38:50  <Alberth> maybe zephyris already defined cargos for the trains
18:46:32  <planetmaker> industries... new industry set, I think. Shall I quickly create?
18:47:48  <Alberth> yes please
18:47:57  <Alberth> oh, I have landscapes from zeph
18:48:09  <Alberth> looks more complete than mine :)
18:48:37  <planetmaker> Alberth, to add it in main, just see .hgsub and add it accordingly. URL is opengfx-mars-industries
18:51:04  <planetmaker> probably a lot can be borrowed from opengfx+industries. And even a lot simplified in comparison
18:52:19  <Alberth> oh, there are the "http:" prefixes :)
18:52:48  <planetmaker> oh... hm. Might need ssh://hg@hg... hm
18:54:12  <Alberth> added
18:54:34  <planetmaker> how does it now look like?
18:55:07  <planetmaker> <-- we have here quite a few paths for zbase
18:55:22  <Alberth> it has a typo :(
18:55:24  <planetmaker> but... I didn't add everything as so far everything worked for me
18:55:30  <planetmaker> with opengfx-mars
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18:57:32  <planetmaker> I have to admit the .hgsub is a bit obscure to me
18:59:49  <Alberth> looks like it's setting up links
19:01:09  <planetmaker> My knowledge comes from
19:01:10  <Webster> Title: Subrepository - Mercurial (at
19:02:20  <Alberth> looks like a reliable source :)
19:03:14  <planetmaker> hm....
19:03:32  <planetmaker> possibly I did it worng with opengfx-mars though
19:03:38  <planetmaker> graphics = graphics
19:03:42  <planetmaker> trains = trains
19:03:43  <planetmaker> ...
19:03:46  <planetmaker> [subpaths]
19:04:14  <planetmaker> ssh://hg@hg.o.o/opengfx-mars/graphics = ssh://hg@hg.o.o/opengfx-mars-graphics
19:04:18  <planetmaker> ...
19:04:21  <planetmaker> might be what we need
19:04:54  <Alberth> feel free to update, I am done messing in it :)
19:05:17  <Alberth> also, I need tea :)
19:06:30  <planetmaker> tea... sounds like a good idea
19:37:02  <Alberth> Zephyris add "and trees" to the landscape grf description, should I copy that?
19:37:37  <Alberth> he also changed s/marsian/martian/  but that seems plausible :p
19:37:59  <Alberth> and he added myself. I added myself too, just in alphabetical order
19:38:08  <Alberth> ^ as programmer
19:38:12  <planetmaker> good :)
19:40:11  <Alberth> s/:{ORANGE}Martian Landscape{}Landscape elements to mimic a Marsian environment{}/:{ORANGE}Martian Landscape and Trees{}Landscape and trees for a Martian environment{}/   ?
19:40:32  <Alberth> oh, missed a Marsian :)
19:47:15  <Supercheese> Hmm, the list is getting somewhat long, could be updated to include some form of temporal information such as "Date Added:"?
19:47:34  <Supercheese> Some indicator of which projects are new and which have been around for ages
19:47:51  <planetmaker> how does project age help?
19:48:20  <planetmaker> wouldn't amount of untranslated strings be more interesting?
19:48:59  <planetmaker> also, what's the age: creation date? Last commit to repo? Last update of strings in repo? something else?
19:49:01  <Supercheese> I suppose it's a fault related to my tendency to say, "meh this project needs no GB->US translating, so I'll not make a new language entry"
19:49:16  <Supercheese> rather than "oh this needs no translating so I'll copy over all the strings verbatim"
19:49:31  <planetmaker> yup
19:49:40  <planetmaker> :P
19:49:48  <Supercheese> therefore I'm left with many projects with no en_US because I've already looked them over
19:50:46  <planetmaker> I see the point. But I don't think that 'project age' (with whatever meaning) is generally helpful
19:51:39  <planetmaker> openttd's age would be 10 years ;)
19:51:51  <planetmaker> but it still needs regular updates
19:51:51  <Supercheese> "Date added to eints:"
19:52:18  <Supercheese> I could just cache grabs of the project list and compare them to the current one to figure out which are new :P
19:52:58  <Alberth> Just look at the strings that need updating, and for the non-zero amounts, look at the project name?
19:53:14  <Alberth> *the number of strings
19:53:32  <Supercheese> that works fine for now, but I'm extrapolating to if/when the project list gets very largfe
19:53:34  <Supercheese> large*
19:53:44  <planetmaker> I understand that that is a practical problem, Alberth, if by default most strings remain untranslated ;)
19:53:48  <Supercheese> "Did I already see this set here....?"
19:54:05  <planetmaker> you roughly remember which you translated?
19:54:25  <Supercheese> I suppose the cure is to copy over stuff verbatim
19:54:31  <Alberth> if you don't translate, you won't get updates to strings either
19:54:53  <Supercheese> but that just seems wrong for some reason
19:55:19  <Alberth> it's not wrong, actually
19:56:30  <Supercheese> well, I suppose it's the best approach
19:56:44  <Alberth> more like the least worse approach :)
19:57:03  <Supercheese> but if/when a string gets updated, the old verbatim copy from en_US will be incorrect until updated
19:57:17  <Supercheese> rather than automatically receiving the update if there is no translated string
19:57:23  <Alberth> yep, but that holds for all translations
19:57:52  <Supercheese> there's no special function/string code to say "this string needs no translation, always copy over from base lang"
19:58:04  <Supercheese> other than not having an entry of course
19:59:12  <Alberth> currently not, and there are some edge cases like "{STRING}"  which are the same for all translations
19:59:36  <Alberth> but it's so small that it's not worth the trouble
20:00:01  <Alberth> also, say "foo" translates to "foo" for you, but "bar" should be "bare" or so
20:00:28  <Alberth> if you say "always copy", the latter would not get your attention in the translator tool
20:01:03  <Supercheese> I guess I can live with the requirement to re-copy strings when they are changed in base lang
20:01:05  <Alberth> ie updates to the base language are not verified for translation
20:01:38  <Supercheese> silly multiple englishes
20:01:44  <Supercheese> no end of troubles ;)
20:01:58  <Alberth> it holds for more languages, eg german also has many forms
20:02:17  <Supercheese> and Portugeses, I would imagine
20:02:26  <Alberth> I think so
20:03:00  <Alberth> but I don't have a solution for deciding when you should be warned and when not
20:03:27  <Alberth> thus it falls back to always warn
20:03:38  <Supercheese> Yeah, only sensible course
20:03:53  <Alberth> and in your case, it's mostly a matter of "copy" & "send string"  :)
20:04:03  <Supercheese> Argh, one of my browser addons is messing with the Copy button
20:04:26  <Alberth> for me too :(
20:04:43  <Supercheese> freaks out when there's a URL in the string to be copied
20:05:18  <Alberth> I think there is an issue about that (or at least, I hope so)
20:05:37  <Alberth> no idea how to solve that though, I didn't write that code :p
20:06:49  <Supercheese> I'm 99% sure it's just a problem with my local browser
20:07:18  <Supercheese> Well, time to spam-copy stuff to en_US
20:07:30  <Alberth> iirc I got &lt;   codes instead of <  with the copy button :(
20:07:53  <Alberth> luckily such characters are not often used :)
20:09:03  <Alberth> planetmaker: aargh, main repo uses its own http: addresses for pushing subrepos
20:09:33  <Supercheese> is there a "copy all strings" option?
20:09:53  <Alberth> not as button, I am afraid
20:10:19  <Alberth> unless you convince the project aurthor to copy it all in their language file
20:11:11  <Supercheese> "Upload language" ->
20:11:17  <Supercheese> Access denied  :(
20:11:48  <Alberth> yep, it's done by the background eints script from the repository files
20:12:30  <Alberth> problem with uploading there is that there is no knowledge what strings you used to translate against
20:12:54  <Alberth> the base strings may have changed already since you started writing that file
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20:13:21  <Alberth> so by allowing that option, it may connect wrong strings together
20:13:47  <Supercheese> I was just hoping to upload an identical copy (other than langid, of course)
20:14:15  <Alberth> I was suspecting that already :)
20:14:36  <Supercheese> huh, think I found a typo in base en_GB
20:15:04  <Alberth> but the route to do that is through the language file in the repository
20:15:10  <Supercheese> eh, maybe not
20:15:48  <Alberth> I am sure many problems exist in the various base language files  :)
20:16:45  <Supercheese> Missing strings: 605
20:16:52  <Supercheese> I am not copying over 605 identical strings
20:16:56  <Supercheese> one by one
20:17:03  <Supercheese> :<
20:19:15  <Alberth> I can help you with FIRS and probably FISH
20:20:10  <Alberth> or prepare file, and ask andy when he is in
20:20:19  <Supercheese> xUSSR Set: Missing: 1404
20:20:22  <Supercheese> oh god
20:20:50  <Alberth> I don't dare starting a translation for that either :)
20:21:32  <Alberth> there are also many strings that are not actually translatable, many numbers of wagons
20:24:19  <Supercheese> I think I will just let that one alone
20:29:43  <andythenorth> I missed most of this, but FIRS already had en_US
20:29:51  <andythenorth> and en_AU
20:30:34  <Supercheese> Most of this was just me complaining about eints not letting me be lazy :P
20:31:25  <Supercheese> well, and wondering why xUSSR has so damn many strings
20:32:27  <Alberth> xUSSR is insane :)
20:32:39  <Supercheese> Fake Subways seems to be the only set where the base lang is not en_GB :O
20:33:08  <Supercheese> I thought RU would be base for xUSSR, but nope
20:33:14  <Alberth> FIRS is missing 204 strings (with 23 correct), FISH is missing all strings (70)
20:33:44  <Supercheese> Is the eints FISH actually FISH or is it SQUID?
20:33:53  <Supercheese> or some mutant hybrid?
20:35:13  <Alberth> it points to the fish project, but that is not helping much :p
20:35:27  <Supercheese> there is no grf_name or such
20:35:50  <andythenorth> it's Squid Ate FISH
20:36:06  <Supercheese> hmm, eints has absolutely nothing to indicate that naming
20:36:16  <andythenorth> en is tricky, because strictly it's valid to fall back to en_GB
20:36:18  <Supercheese> you must have grf_name elsewhere
20:37:49  <andythenorth> FISH and Squid are same repo, same project
20:37:57  <andythenorth> Squid = FISH v2
20:40:01  <Alberth> It's so cold in the martian toyland :(
20:40:57  <Supercheese> Igloo fits right in :P
20:42:50  <Alberth> :D
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